1995.04.23-serial.00118
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Today I'd like to begin by speaking about a spring day like today many years ago. When I was woke up this morning I was reminded of this day. Anyway it's a kind of, it's rather a glorious day today, huh? And the sun is shining and there's kind of gentle, soft breezes that sometimes you have a sort of feeling of velvet brushing on your skin. And it's quite different than last week when, I mean I wasn't here, but where I was last week biting cold winds and dressing warmly and still cold and so on. Anyway, this is many years ago at Tassajara. It was a spring day and at the end of the winter-spring practice period.
[01:01]
And we, all of us at Tassajara went for a hike to the horse pasture. Maybe it was for Buddha's birthday, which was celebrated here two weeks ago. And maybe there was 40 or 50 people and I was cook at Tassajara at the time and we had worked very hard to make a picnic for everyone. So that when we got to the horse pasture and we had a little, somebody had carried a little Buddha and the incense and candles and we had a little noon service. And then we had a picnic. And the wildflowers were blooming, the hills were green, it wasn't too hot and it wasn't too cold. Do you know in the, when they talk about the pure land in Buddhism where, you know,
[02:04]
if you say one time homage to Amida Buddha with sincerity, you can be reborn in the western pure land. And this day at the horse pasture was kind of like the western pure land because in this place it would be whatever temperature you want it to be. And there's various kinds of trees there and when the wind blows through the trees it makes music, whatever kind you want. Take your pick. And you can have the taste of anything you want in your mouth without actually having to chew and swallow it. And have it in your body. You know, you can just have whatever sensations you want in your mouth without having to have the results in your stomach or hips. This is quite a clever, wonderful place. I think the idea of the western pure land is that you, because everything you might want is taken care of, after a while you start to think about what you really want aside
[03:09]
from these kinds of delights, sensory, aside from the sensory delights. So, anyway, it was a wonderful day and we had a picnic. But I was feeling a little, I didn't feel so good because I'd worked very hard to help make the picnic. We'd made empanadas. Do you know empanadas? You have a flour dough and then there's a filling inside with different kinds of vegetables or fruits. And it's sort of sweet and sour and peppery and various things and there's little nuts. You can have dried fruits in there, stewed dried fruits, and anyway, many different things. And you wrap it in a turnover in the dough and then you fry them. So that was a lot of work, making those. And we had other things, you know, maybe some potato salad and coleslaw or things, and we had little plates. And so everybody had kind of a rather delightful time and people had even brought thermoses,
[04:12]
you know, tea and coffee and things, and so it was a lot of fun. But I was unhappy because it didn't seem like people were, you know, I mean, they were appreciating the food, obviously, and eating with relish and gusto, but they weren't thanking me. And even if, you know, I don't remember if we chanted, you know, sometimes we do a meal chant. Usually if we eat in the meditation hall we do a meal chant, but on picnics we don't always do a meal chant. But even if we do, we used to say 72 labors brought us this food, and now I think we say innumerable labors? Innumerable labors brought us this food. So maybe it's appropriate, you know, the cook's effort is only one of innumerable labors, so who cares, right? You're just sort of lumped in there with these innumerable labors, but nobody's really appreciating,
[05:15]
you know, me. I mean, let's get to the important part, right? And what I did, and thank you, thank you for your efforts in particular. So then what do you, and maybe it's appropriate, right? Because after all, it is innumerable labors, and a lot of it is not much of our doing. It's just kind of gratuitous. You know, the sun shines and there's earth and water, and there's this germ of seed that grows if the conditions are right, into food. And somebody may cultivate or harvest, and there's all those, you know, market economic factors, right? Profit motive and various things. And then there's the fuel and the trucks and the shipping, and you know, it is, it gets
[06:17]
to be innumerable. The whole world is included in this, and not just human labor. So maybe that's appropriate, but none, you know, that why should, you know, I or the cooks be singled out? After all, we just had this little part at the end. But I was still feeling not so good, and then what do you do? You know, do you, it's a little inappropriate, it seems like, to stand up in the middle of the picnic, even though you might be tempted, and say, yoo-hoo. I know you all are enjoying your picnic, but I'd really appreciate it if you, like, gave me a standing ovation or something. And then one of the other main alternatives is just sort of sit there and pout. I'm kind of good at pouting, personally.
[07:18]
People who have known me for a long time, you know, know that I'm kind of moody. Anyway, so I didn't say anything, and the picnic goes on, and it's a beautiful day, and pretty soon you get over it, and it's not so important, except it would have been nice. And afterwards, after the picnic, we had the, we'd gone together as a group to the horse pasture over the hill from Tassajara, and then after the picnic, it's kind of, everybody kind of wanders off at their own accord, back towards Tassajara. Some of us went, continue, if you continue through the horse pasture, you come down to the Tassajara Creek, and then it's only a few minutes from there, to the left downstream, to a swimming hole called the Narrows, where you can go swimming. So some of us went and did that, and then if you walk back upstream, you get back to
[08:21]
Tassajara. And then it was, for most of the people at Tassajara, it was their day off. So, people have a chance to bathe, and read, and write, and nap, many things. Later in the afternoon, it was time for me to go back to the kitchen, because the cook's work doesn't stop, right? And so, I went back to the kitchen, and I know even though there's a big feast, people still are going to want a little something for dinner. You know, it's sort of like Thanksgiving, people say, oh, I'm never going to eat again. But actually, somehow the next day, you still feel like having a little something. Or if you've eaten a big meal at, a big Thanksgiving meal at two, you know, long about nine, you say, well, maybe another piece of pie. Something like that, you know.
[09:23]
So, I was back in the kitchen, and I thought, well, I'll get together some leftovers, and I was there in the kitchen by myself, and pretty soon I realized that, you know, after the appointed time we were all going to meet at the kitchen to prepare dinner, nobody came but me. I think they were having a good time on their day off. They'd sort of just joined in the spirit of everybody else on their day off and decided to have a day off too, I don't know, but they didn't come to the kitchen. I was the only one there. Maybe they also noticed that they weren't thanked and appreciated, and they decided, well, if I'm not appreciated, why should I show up? I'll do something else where it's a little more profitable. I get a better return on my investment of time and labor. I get a little more thanks. So I was in the kitchen by myself, and I'd started taking all the leftovers out of the
[10:32]
refrigerator too. This is something I learned very early when I was cooking, how to take leftovers out of the refrigerator and make them into a meal, because that was my first cooking job, was to make lunch with the leftovers from dinner. I have a certain skill at this, I can go into people's houses and clean out the refrigerators and make dinner. I was recently in Cambridge and actually I was at Sophia Wheelwright's, she's the granddaughter of George Wheelwright, who gave Zinz and her Green Gulch here. I was visiting Sophia and her husband, David, and they said, oh, well, there's nothing to eat here. So then I opened up the refrigerator and started taking out little containers of this and that, and then some of them, of course, you just discard, because they don't look what they originally looked like. They have an extra sort of coating over them of some sort, different colors, and some are
[11:32]
furry and some are... So I pick out the good things from the bad things, and then I put together a meal, and then they said, oh, well, we'll never say that again, that there's nothing to eat here. We all had a good dinner, and they contributed a bottle of wine. So anyway, that was nice. So I tend to, you know, I'm sort of something I work at, but then here I was, and nobody else showed up, so not only was I not thanked for dinner, but now I've been abandoned by all the people who are supposed to be helping me. So I thought, I'll show them. I will also disappear. Then they will understand how ungrateful they've been. Then they will notice that I'm not here, because they don't seem to notice when I'm here that I'm here, so why should I be here if nobody's even noticing it or appreciating it? Does it matter that I'm here? Does anyone care?
[12:33]
Does it make any difference to anybody that I'm here? So I thought, so I had to, you know, and then I, I don't know, something stopped me. I had some second thoughts. Suppose they don't understand the message. Suppose they just think I'm being lazy and irresponsible. That flake. And then I thought further, somehow the idea of generosity came to mind. And you know, like, why are we doing this, what we're doing? The last, yesterday and today, this morning, at my little house up in Inverness, the carpenter
[13:34]
ants are very busy and they got in one of the drawers and there were some spiced gumdrops in there. And they loved the spiced gumdrops. They were, there was the bag of gum, and usually the carpenter ants kind of mind their own business and they stay in the wood. But in this case, the ants had, and so I disposed of the spiced gumdrops out into the yard. And then, even after I cleaned out the drawer, the ants kept coming back. And so whenever I opened the drawer, even though the drawer was empty and there was no more sugar there, there'd be 30, 40 ants going around looking, where is the sugar? And then I'd take them, I'd take the drawer outside and I'd dump it out. This morning I started thinking about the ants, because I'm not sure what happens when I dump them outside, whether they know what to do. I mean, if, can they find their way home?
[14:36]
You know, the ants follow a lot of chemical signals and clues, where to go, how to get back home. And if they're not in their group, they don't survive on their own. And actually, you know, we're more like ants than we usually like to think, because we like to think we can survive on our own. But I sort of, now I started worrying about the ants. And I was thinking about the ants and, you know, they just, the group is entirely what's important. It's not the individual at all. And nobody says to the little ants who work so hard, thank you for carrying six times your weight. Good job there. We appreciate your service. And this is your reward, and we hope we're paying you enough so that you don't go somewhere
[15:45]
else where you have a better offer. Sometimes I think, you know, our poor capitalistic system is getting, you know, more and more like this, I'm afraid, safe for exploitation, you know, low wages. And sometimes I think school certifies that you can put up with a boring situation and be moderately productive and not sabotage the system. Now you're certified, now you can have a job, which may not be so interesting or meaningful and may not pay as much as it should. And if you don't want one of these crummy, low-paying jobs, well, we can always put you in prison. We don't mind spending the $50,000 to $80,000 a year to put you in prison, because that's worth it to us. And that's the alternative, that's our alternative if you don't want a, you know, low-paying
[16:47]
job. Anyway, who knows? But people, as people, we're, of course, much more complicated than ants. I started thinking, and I wasn't thinking about ants that day, but just today I'm thinking about ants with this and how different they are than we are, and yet, in some ways, the same. They work very hard for the benefit of the whole group. Their life is completely enmeshed in the group. And I started thinking about, you know, why I would stay in the kitchen after people don't appreciate my work and the people I work with don't even show up. What's the point? And I started thinking about generosity. And I started thinking that, well, if I just do something in order to get the thanks, that's
[17:50]
not being generous, that's just a purchase. That's just a bargain, a barter, you know, that's just a bargain, a bargaining. I'll give this if I get that. Then you try to look around for the best deal. So then that's called, sometimes, investment. Where are you going to invest your efforts? And it's an important question. Where do you get some return? What kind of return are you looking for? And I felt something, somehow, about being generous about, and I realized I had a wish. I wanted to be generous, where I could give my effort without it depending on something coming back, without any strings attached. I would just offer food.
[18:51]
So no, you know, not some kind of a deal. And I realized I wanted to do this. I wanted to be that generous. I wished that I could give food, offer my life, my effort, in spite of or regardless of what happens, how it's perceived by others and what they say to me. So I put together the dinner and served it. And, of course, nobody said anything. And the people who didn't come to work, I don't remember them apologizing. So this is, for me, you know, Buddhism is about many things, and oftentimes people
[19:53]
want to become more Buddhist. And people say, well, what do you do under these circumstances? How do I know whether I should get married or not, or live with this person, or what I'm supposed to put up with? Or how do we know? What is wisdom and what is compassion? What's just being walked over, taken advantage of? And what is, you know, knowing or finding out your true heart's desire and actually being able to manifest it? And this happens over and over again. How we sort of sometimes, often we're going to wait and see what other people do, and then if other people are like that, I'll do it too. And we're very susceptible to what people around us are doing, how people around us
[21:01]
are behaving. You know, so if, you know, for whatever you think of it one way or another, but, you know, if other people are starting to get divorced, you start thinking about getting divorced. If other people are staying together, you think, well, they're all staying together, I guess I'll stay. Recently I was in Hawaii, and my girlfriend's parents had their 50th wedding anniversary. So all of the kids, there was five kids, they all got up and said something, and their spouses said something to honor the parents. And then the parents got up and described the secret of their 50 years. And the father said, well, when I went to the wedding, it was during the war, you know, it was 1945, because this is the 50th anniversary, and he'd gotten a two-week leave and went
[22:01]
to Warren, Ohio, to get married. And he didn't know anybody there except for his bride, and his mother was there, and his brother. And so he said, I just went straight ahead, I got tunnel vision, and I went straight ahead. And he said, I think I've done a lot of that over the years. Is that, you know, Buddhist, is that good or not so good? You know, we don't know, finally. And his wife got up and said, well, you know, there was five kids, and we always said, whoever leaves has to take them. So we stayed together. But in any kind of situation like that, obviously, you know, as I said to them, you've been
[23:09]
together 50 years, so you've had to give up a lot of ideas about what you think a marriage should be, about what you'd like your spouse to be like, or what you yourself would like to be like. You've had to let go of a lot. A lot of ideas and, you know, learn to work with the situation. So this one, this aspect of Buddhism, there's this aspect of finding out what is your deep desire or your real wish, aside from what everybody else is doing, or whether people appreciate you or don't appreciate you. How do you want to be? And so Buddhism isn't just about, you know, how do you want to be? So being kind because Buddhism tells you to be kind, or being compassionate because, you know, you've been told to be compassionate, that's what's really Buddhist. But finding compassion in your heart. Finding your own generosity and your own wish to be happy, your own wish to, you know,
[24:16]
be of benefit to others in the simple ways that you can. And partly this also means, you know, to have compassion for someone yourself and others who is less than perfect, and isn't always so likable, and has good points and bad points. And can you still be kind to someone like that? Can you still be kind to the people who aren't very grateful for everything you do for them? Or do you just tell them to get lost? So as many of you know, often when we do meals, we offer a little tray of food to the Buddha. Before the meal, we have a big drum roll. And during the drum roll, someone comes in and offers this tray of food at the altar. When I was first cooking at Tussara, I'll tell you, I thought this was pretty stupid.
[25:21]
I mean, can you imagine? You're serving food to somebody who doesn't even, you know, like, eat it? Doesn't smell it, doesn't taste it. Put this food out on the altar there, and then after a while you go and take it back. And I thought, I'm pretty busy here in the kitchen, and I've got enough to do with that. There's these little beautiful, you know, little bowls. It's like dollhouse cuisine. And you have to take this time, and you stop everything else. And you have to get these little utensils and spoons and things, and you try to get the food into the little bowl without it slopping on the side. And then, you know, and so you have a little cereal and fruit and nuts or whatever it is. Soup, salad, bread. And then there's a little tiny spoon, little tiny chopsticks. And somebody goes and puts this on the altar.
[26:26]
I thought that was pretty silly. Kind of a wasted time. Why would you do that? But being a good little boy, for the most part, I went along with this routine. And one summer when I was at Tessera and I was cooking, Bill Kwong came to visit. He and his wife, Laura, and I watched to see how he would handle this. They were just there for like three or four days. And he came to help in the kitchen. He'd been the cook at Zen Center when I first arrived at Zen Center on Bush Street in 1965. And he used to make the lunches on Saturday mornings. I mean the breakfasts on Saturday mornings. And the kitchen always had a really nice feeling when he was around. And I couldn't believe how careful and sincere he was about putting food in the Buddha bowls.
[27:29]
And he'd make sure that it had, like if it was a soup with different things in it, he'd get a little piece of each little thing and put it in the bowl in the soup. And he'd make sure it had the little green onion garnish. And he actually did this very carefully, very intently. And with complete sincerity, I was flabbergasted. I'd never seen anything like it. Somebody making such a careful effort for something so completely useless. And it's not like after the meal, you know, Buddha says, oh, thank you. I really enjoyed that miso soup. I thought you did something really interesting with the carrots. I really appreciate that little hint of the orange peel there on the carrots and the little orange juice. That was nice. I hadn't had that before. See, your cuisine is really developing. It's coming along. That's great.
[28:35]
And the Buddha also doesn't complain. He doesn't say, boy, you burned the rice again and haven't you figured that one out yet? You put the food out there and then nothing happens. Nothing is said. And later you go and pick up the tray and take it back. And then depending, you know, some people just put it back into the soup bowls and into the pots. And then there's also something of a tradition of taking it out and feeding it to the birds or the creatures. It's food that was first offered to Buddha. And it was only in the last few years I started thinking about this and I thought, isn't that a wonderful metaphor for what a cook's job is? You cook the food and you offer it and you bow and leave.
[29:45]
That's your job. That's your job as a cook. Maybe people like it, maybe they don't. And mostly you don't hear anything. And just because you don't hear anything, does that mean your effort is useless? But then this is the same with our conversations too. And how we come across to people throughout the day. Do they like your act? Are they applauding? Or do you hear anything about how you're behaving today? What you just said? And sometimes people like it and sometimes they don't. And so, are you going to just keep your mouth shut because you might get a bad review if you open it? Somebody might not like what you say, you might not say it very well. And how will your capacity to communicate develop if you just don't say anything because people might not like it? And what about the U.S. government and our life in the community?
[30:50]
There's a wonderful story about A.J. Muste who was for many years the head of the Fellowship of Reconciliation. Many people considered him the foremost pacifist in the country. And during the Vietnam War he used to, often in the evenings, he'd do a candlelight vigil outside the White House. Once in a while somebody would come and join him. Many nights he did his candlelight vigil by himself. And then, you know, people used to ask him sometimes, Mr. Muste, why do you do this? You're not expecting to change the country, are you? And he said, no, but I'm not going to let the country change me either. So his effort is just like this offering the Buddha tray. He was going to do that even though nobody, you know, it looks like nobody is listening, nobody cares, nobody appreciates your effort.
[31:58]
He decided to do it anyway because I don't want the country changing me. I have a certain wish for peace. I have a certain wish for the happiness of beings. So I'm going to act on this. Whether or not others join me in this, whether or not anybody listens, I'm going to do this. This is the way I want to live my life. So in a way, you know, it's just ritual. Or we don't know. We don't know what part, you know, his being outside the White House had in ending the war. Many things happened. So there is this, anyway, wonderful capacity we have to own our own body and mind
[33:01]
and to realize and know our true deep wish. And to begin to act on it and manifest it and offer it to the world even though it may be awkward and clumsy. And to offer it even though we may get good reviews, bad reviews, or no reviews at all. We give something of our life. Maybe part of that giving is to say, I'd appreciate it if you would thank me for the food I cooked. There's another offering, but that doesn't mean that the people you offer that to are going to say, Oh yes, certainly, I'll keep that in mind and I'll do whatever you want. They may not say that, but you can still offer your wish that they would and you let it go. Otherwise, we get in the business of making demands how other people are supposed to behave.
[34:02]
And it doesn't work very well. Silence. Silence. So this effort to clarify your own wish and to express it in the world is very important.
[35:13]
As you can see, important work, important effort that we're all making to realize ourselves. Realize ourselves in relation to the vast world. This morning on the way here, I was listening to a tape of Robert Belay's poetry reading at Dominican College in March. And the first poem he started out with, he said, was a short poem from the Middle Ages. Lord, please help me because my boat is so small and your ocean is so immense. Anyway, what in a Buddhist sense helps us is this knowing our own finding, you know, again and again, you know, when we're confused and trying to sort out what to do, how to be, how to behave,
[36:18]
whether it's worth it to say something or not to say something, to make some effort or not to make it or whatever to make, to sort this out and settle and know our true wish, our deep desire. And then to see how would we, how can we manifest it, act on it, express it. So, thank you for carrying on this way. I was, in that sense, anyway, you know, the power of hatred when it's not, you know, met with some, in one's own life, you know, when it afflicts someone like that, it's very powerful and this is an example of it.
[37:23]
I don't think, you know, I don't think it's a bad thing. You know, personally, I don't think that anybody is evil, but that doesn't mean that people can't be completely possessed by their hatred. And in a way, you know, the person who is possessed by their hatred is also a victim of their hatred and they don't know what to do with their hatred except to turn it on others. So, this is, you know, extremely unfortunate that there are, that this is, you know, what happens when we're not able to somehow meet our hatred. The image I appreciate most when the Buddha is, one of the images I appreciate is the Buddha sitting in meditation and there are wonderful pictures of this of, you know, all the arrows and spears and insults and everything being hurled at the Buddha by all these demons and before they reach him, they turn to flowers and drop it. Which is, you know, metaphorically or pictorially a symbol of,
[38:31]
that it is possible for any one of us to meet hatred and have it, you know, and turn it in some way. Into something, you know, more creative. And so the power of hatred when it's unchecked and when people don't have the capacity to absorb it in some way or to have no understanding or little sense of that is quite powerful, obviously. And it's scary because we like to feel we can trust our world. It's important that we can trust our world and it's for our health and well-being that we can trust our world and our own experience in the world and go on with our lives. Without feeling that we have to barricade ourselves or arm ourselves
[39:35]
and so on. So when something like this happens, it's quite stunning. I mean, I think a lot of times we're all sort of dealing with something like this and we wonder. I mean, what I mean is, you know, personally anyway, I have, I get very angry sometimes and I want to smash something or break something or I want to disappear something from the universe. It's usually some thing, it's just some person. And I wait, you know, I've developed a certain tolerance to feel that way where I don't actually see the point of actually manifesting that and doing that. So I wait and everything passes. And the Buddhist understanding, of course, is that, and we've all heard this,
[40:47]
but to respond to violence and hatred with violence and hatred is not a way to end it. So it's a kind of unskillful way to work with one's feelings, that sort of activity. And it's very sad. And these things go back in our culture for so long. You know, families and parents and children. Recently I was listening to a tape of a woman named Mary Previty, she was interviewed on Fresh Air by Terry Gross, and she's the head of a juvenile detention center in New Jersey. And she's quite a remarkable person and I listened to her talk and I just wonder, like, why aren't there more people like this in the world? Because she's so incredibly compassionate and wise and yet she's tough. It turns out she's been doing this now for over 20 years. She started in 1974 and she's still doing this, head of a juvenile correction center in New Jersey.
[41:52]
And so, of course, one of the questions is, why haven't you burned out? And she said, I don't look for any big results. I do what I do and little presents come to me. You know, a smile or a note or a card or a drawing somebody's done, one of the kids has done and they give it to me. And I get more back that way in little gestures than I get, you know, it's more than anything I put into it. But I don't look for any major big changes in the world. I don't look to see, like, is everything working better now here at the center? And every so often, you know, one of the kids that she spent time with and sometimes kids who, you know, she said there was one boy who had written on the school, for the school paper, how he was going to change his life and not deal drugs anymore and, you know, start over again and get a job and six months later he's murdered. And so you sort of, you could easily feel like my efforts here are for naught.
[43:00]
This is one of her most promising kids that she really appreciated working with. They worked together on the paper. And yet it doesn't, you know, she's not put off by that. She continues her activity, not looking for some big result. Or 30 years from now, what happens to these people? And so she can keep up her efforts. It turns out that she was born of missionary parents in China and her whole family was interred by the Japanese during the Second World War in concentration camp in China. And so she kind of models her juvenile correction center on this experience. Which I have to explain a little bit because she said, you know, when we were in the prison camp, my parents and the other parents said, you know, there's only one way to behave. That's the queen's way. They were English.
[44:04]
So when we have a meal, you sit up straight. And it doesn't matter if you're eating slop. You still sit up straight. So she said there was one way to do things, regardless of the circumstances. So she says in the juvenile detention center there's one way to do things, my way. There's not two ways. And when she first started out there, a few days after she had started, there was a riot. And they called her up, this was in 1974, and they called her up and said, get yourself down here. And she went down there and she was wearing her evening hostess dress because she'd been having a dinner party and serving wine. And she went down there and here she is in her strapless gown, whatever. And there's all these big beefy guards watching her. What's she going to do? Political pointy. How's she going to handle this? And she said she had no idea what to do.
[45:08]
And so all she could think of was to go to the one kid that she sort of knew very slightly, a boy named Stevie. She went over to where he was locked up. And she said very quietly, Stevie, what's this all about? And the place had been in this, you know, they're making all this noise. She said, in prisons, all this noise is enough to drive you crazy, so it's no wonder they riot. But they're hitting and banging on things in their cells and everything, or their rooms. And she said the whole place got really quiet because they wanted to hear what Stevie had to say. And she said it was something about recreation or, you know, exercise or something. And she said, Stevie, that's something we can do something about. Don't worry about it. But she tells all the kids, she tells the kids that, and this is exactly what we're talking about. And how important it is to feel safe in the world.
[46:09]
Because she tells the kids, nobody's going to hurt you here, and you're not allowed to hurt anybody, and you're not allowed to hurt the place. You have to take care of it. Where is this? In New Jersey. And so Terry Gross, of course, asks her, well, how do you get them to do this? What can you do? And she says, well, I tell them, if you hurt my building, or my kids, or my staff, I'm going to hurt you. But the way that she can hurt them is she'll get a group of them together and she'll say, how many of you know about the good letters I can write to the judges on your behalf? And a lot of kids, she says, I always start with something positive. And the kids wave their hands, and then the kids who don't know that she can write those letters get the idea. And then she says, and how many of you understand that the same hand that writes these good letters can also write a bad letter? So she says, and so now her kids are, you know, of all the juvenile correction centers in the country, her kids score the best in all the school tests.
[47:20]
And basically she feels that's because they feel like they're safe. And for most of them, it's the first time in their life they've ever felt safe. And it's something that most of us, that feeling safe, we kind of take it for granted, most of us. But that's something really powerful in our lives, to live with others in safety like that. So it's quite upsetting when we have the feeling that perhaps it's not true. Even though at some level, you know, it's always not true. We never know what's going to happen. Yeah. You spoke this morning, kind of contributing to the whole offering, almost a sense of duty. And yet, in the current environment, it felt to me almost anarchistic, what you were saying. In the current environment?
[48:22]
Of the society here, where basically, you know, what we're told is to maximize your return or make a big impact. You know, so either personally make out or make an impact in the society in any way. Yeah, this is why I think it's... That's the sort of big message. Yeah. Yeah, well, I don't know that it's anarchistic, but it is an alternative kind of behavior or way to model one's or to think about one's activity in the world. But that does bring up a point which I didn't talk about in my talk, but, you know, that the way that societies are structured or organized obviously has a big impact on how you can think about your life. In the context of our general way of life, of capitalism and maximizing your return at the expense of others, being able to exploit others. You know, others work for you at low pay, so then why would you work very hard if it's for somebody else's profit?
[49:27]
Why would you have, you know, it wouldn't occur to you, like, I'm going to be generous when it's for somebody else's profit. And so the only way that works is in the context of, you know, that worked for me in the context of a community like Green Gulch or Tassajara, where you feel like you can see the work I do is for myself, it's for my family, it's for my friends, it's for this community, and I see it. And so my work is going towards the well-being of this whole entity which also supports me, and which is going to take care of me if something, you know, really bad happens. It may not take care of me or respond to me at the level I would like it to, but it does care about me, it does respond to me. And so this is where actually to develop and cultivate long-term relationships, you know, makes a real difference in our life, where then that's the ground or somehow the network, you know, that actually allows us to then become generous and be able to do that and not be focused in on maximizing our profits, as you say, or making a big impact and so forth.
[50:37]
And it's one of the, you know, that's a tragic side of our culture generally. And personally, of course, personally I feel like that's also related to the tragedy in Kansas City because there are many times people who are somehow not part of this whole, can't find a way to profit in all of that, can't find a way to make an impact on all of that, and are kind of excluded from that in a certain way, you know. They're going to have to take, you know, get exploited or become an outlaw. And it's, you know, in terms of sociology or anthropology or whatever, when you have a group of people who are, you know, on the bottom, those are the people who get to be lawless, who get lawless. The people who are benefiting by the system, they're happy to follow all the rules. And the people who are at the very bottom of the system are the ones most likely to break the rules because they have no reason to, you know, respect them or tolerate them.
[51:39]
And so for me that's, you know, part of the tragedy here is that our culture, we're not as developed as we could be. And it's, you know, it's hard to understand how we could be, but we're not as developed as we could be at integrating people into a shared life. And it's not possible to do, I don't think, on a national scale, you know, through television. Or internet. Or internet. There is a wonderful new, I was listening and speaking of which, the internet. There's now somebody, I forget his name, who's written a book and is talking about how maybe you might actually do some network with the old lady down the street who's never going to be on the internet and stop worrying about that virtual community and start working on the actual community. And actually working with them and feeding them and talking to them. So, anyway, just to, you know, I think you're quite right and it's a point that to me is fundamental and related to this.
[52:48]
And then here's this, even in a juvenile detention center it's the same thing where those kids feel like somebody is looking out for us, we are safe. And then they're part of this whole structure and community where they feel important or acknowledged. And in that context they can actually behave themselves and they want to behave themselves. She said one day she went around and she was just checking out people's rooms and the rooms that were neat, she put a gold star on the door. And then the next day one of her staff came to her and said, my boys want to know where their gold star is. And she said, I can't do this every day, I can't go around to all the rooms every day giving out gold stars. And her staff person said, my boys want to know where their gold star is. So now she goes around every day and puts gold stars on the door so they can collect them. You know, they can have rows and rows of gold stars having a clean room.
[53:52]
I love it. It's simple, at that level that's a very simple thing to do and yet this makes a powerful impact. Somebody actually noticed, somebody actually cares. And I'm part of this whole community. And within this community context of being even in the correctional facility, I want to be an outstanding member. I want my gold stars. I want to be recognized. And so the capacity, even in a situation like that, to create that kind of experience for people is tremendously powerful. Yes. Could you comment on the hungry ghost? Seems like it might relate to this. I was thinking about that because I was considering the city and they were putting up the food offerings. And I was trying to understand it and you talked about it in the talk today. And then somebody said, also it could be related to the hungry ghost.
[54:53]
And then there was an article inquiring mind about that. Are we all hungry ghosts? The concept of hungry ghosts, for those of you who may not be familiar with Buddhism, the concept of hungry ghosts is there are these various world systems. So there's basically six. One of them is the human realm and then there's the animal realm, the realm of gods, the realm of fighting demons. One of them is the realm of hungry ghosts. I may be leaving out one of the six. I forget, the hell realm maybe. Heaven and hell realm. So in the realm of hungry ghosts there's all these beings that have an insatiable appetite with throats the size of pins. So they have some physical deformities to go with the fact that they are very hungry. And so they, you know, nothing is going to satisfy them. And they have, at that point, they no longer have the capacity even to have satisfaction because they're so stunted.
[55:54]
And so it's taught in Buddhism that there are ways in which you can, esoterically at least, in ritual form you enlarge their throats. And then you feed them. And you teach them the Dharma. But in some sense, yeah, we all tend to be hungry ghosts. And, you know, one of the ways in which we're often hungry ghosts, those of us who are like spiritual kind of people, like we want special experiences. We want enlightenment. And, you know, something really deep and beyond what we are able to have experienced up until now. And so that means when you see things and hear things and think things and feel things you say to yourself, not good enough, not profound enough, not far out enough. It's a beautiful day today, but still it's not like, you know, really that far out. But then your body and mind and being, you know, feels kind of bad. Because you've told it, not good enough. I want something special. I want something beyond this.
[56:57]
So this is a kind of, you know, form of being a hungry ghost. You know, chasing after profound, you know, profound experiences. And not allowing what you see and smell and taste and touch and feel to satisfy you. What's the problem? And then pretty soon your body and your being is, you know, pretty scented. And your body and being gets tired of giving you things to think and feel. You know, giving you thoughts and feelings and sights and sounds. Because you're not paying attention to any of them. You know, and you're telling them to go away and stop bothering you. You're not good enough and all that. So this is a way in which we actually, you know, become like hungry ghosts. And then, so part of what practice is about is finding some way to allow the present moment in all of its, you know, simplicity and starkness and less than magnificence to be of some satisfaction. And for some people at least, sitting still in the meditation hall, sort of after a while,
[57:59]
they say, okay, maybe I could just, this could be enough. You know, like my breath. And I could allow my breath to, you know, I could be happy. Thich Nhat Hanh says, please enjoy your breath. You know, and you could allow your breath to bring you some pleasure and joy. So anyway, I don't know how all this relates to Oklahoma, but, you know, it's certainly a factor in our experience as kind of hungry ghosts. But as far as the Buddha tray, yeah, sometimes we put the food outside and it's not only for the animals but also for hungry ghosts. So we try to, we try even for the hungry ghosts, we try to say, you know, please eat. You know, be nourished. Don't, you know, and there are all these things that are there for you. If you'll take the time to pay attention to them. Does that make sense? Yes.
[59:01]
Yeah, so I'd like to say I'm not a Buddhist, but I'm really interested in it. Me too. And one of the main, one of the main concepts of Buddhism I've had trouble with actually is meditation. And for the very sort of, you know, hungry ghost sort of reason, is because I found that in searching for like my, for what's inside of me, I often can't find it. And this sort of led me to the conclusion that, like, I don't happen to the world, but the world happens to me, sort of. And so I don't, I don't know, just, not that comment. Well, personally, I don't, I don't feel like everybody needs to be interested in meditation.
[60:07]
No. And each of us, we try to find, in fact, you know, my stories this morning, you know, part of my telling you the stories I told you this morning is to tell you that you can look at your experience throughout any day, you know, and be finding something out about something about how you are in various situations, and what you do, and what you'd like to have done, and, you know, the kind of person you'd like to be in various situations, and so on. And that's an ongoing study, whether you're meditating or not. And the degree to which any of us actually engage in that study is, you know, how we fulfill our life. And tremendously important that way. And oftentimes, in fact, of course, you know, and meditation is no guarantee that you, you know, particularly realize anything or get anywhere. In fact, in the Robert Bly tape, I mean, Robert Bly is somebody who, he did this benefit for Spirit Rock and Jack Kornfield and Spirit Rock in this meditation center,
[61:09]
and at the same time in his talk he loves to say things like, you know, you can do Zazen for 20 years and still be a jerk. Because there's an aspect of meditation which is, in fact, turning away from life. And, you know, one example of that is when I started meditation, I, you know, you read all these things and you hear all these things like, if you just do your meditation then all this other stuff falls away and you won't, you know, you can live in peace and harmony and, you know. And I thought, great, you know, I don't have to, you know, I don't have to actually confront anybody. So that appealed to me as a way to not get into, you know, conflict with anybody. You know, I could just meditate and live with all these other people meditating and I wouldn't have to ever have conflict. Wouldn't that be nice? Well, it turns out that that's not the case. I found over the years it's rather useful to develop your, also develop your conversational skills. Which initially hadn't occurred to me.
[62:12]
And over the years it's become more and more important, you know, that I can say something about, you know, what is happening with me. And to be able to say something about what is happening with you is actually, you know, very closely associated with meditation. But you could also focus on the aspect of being able to say what is happening to you. You know, as opposed to focusing on the aspect of, part of the problem with meditation can be, you try to, people try to get really quiet. Then they're not noticing, you know, then anything that's happening to them is, you know, is not supposed to happen. It's supposed to be quiet, you know, so you tell your thoughts to go away and you tell your feelings to go away. And after a while they get, they say, oh, okay. And then you can get real quiet. And then you can also be kind of lost and kind of a jerk because you haven't, you know, you don't know what you think and what you feel. And other people say and do things which somehow means that what your thoughts and feelings, you know, suddenly pop up.
[63:16]
And it's their fault. And you make me mad. And you've overlooked that, you know, that the seeds of the anger were in you and so on, you know, so. So certainly the, you know, meditation is something that one should, you know, undertake meditation and, you know, as part of one's study. And have it, you know, be in the context of some real integration in their life. But on the other hand, you know, people, you have to do meditation in the stupid way that you do it in order to, you know, progress to doing it some other way. You know, so it's not without its, you know, value in that sense. And as far as the second sort of point you make or the comment you made as, you know, I don't feel as though I'm happening to the world, but the world is happening to me.
[64:18]
You know, of course both are going on. And the thing to do is to continue studying and looking into what's what. And I use, lately I'm using the expression from Zen Mind Beginner's Mind of Suzuki Roshi's, the important point is to own your own body and mind. But that in itself is a real study. What is it to own your own body and mind? And I use that in distinction with the sort of sense of, there's another Zen expression, don't put another head over your head. Which is the head that is always saying, you shouldn't have said that. And, you know, watch out here and do this and do that. And kind of, you know, the censor or the critic or basically some part of you that's withholding approval pending your, you know, improved behavior. Which is never going to improve enough to get the approval. Because the standards will keep changing as time goes on. And so don't put another head over your head.
[65:20]
You know, and actually be able to, you know, and become friends with your thoughts and your feelings rather than trying to exclude them or, you know, get them to behave better, etc. So this is also related for me to the saying, give your sheep or cow, if you want to control your sheep or cow, give them a large pasture. And that's pathetic. That also is a study, you know. So the point is to, if you keep studying, you keep looking into it, then you have some sense of, you know, what is putting another head over my head? In my experience, what is that in my experience and what is not doing that? And what is owning my own body and mind and what is allowing myself to be colonized by the culture or by others? You know, one way we get colonized by others is they come and, you know, like I was cooking back east. I was doing a workshop on Zen and cooking and I was in kind of a snit because I just burned, I was trying to bake some garlic and it got burnt. And I'm also trying to, we're going to prepare four tomato sauces, each with about six ingredients.
[66:22]
And I'm trying to get this whole thing organized and there's 25 people and this whole thing is about to happen and I have the responsibility to make it happen. So I'm kind of anxious and I'm kind of nervous. And this young lady who's running the kitchen there says, relax, Ed, calm down. They're like, excuse me, but. I have some responsibility here, you don't. And I'm in charge of my body and mind and not you, so I don't really appreciate your, you know, bossing me in this case. And, and actually I would find it and I am going to turn, you know, my anxiety and my nervousness and my snit here into food. Which I think is pretty good and pretty healthy and it's going to be pretty delicious and you all are going to like it. So, you know, I'm working on it. All right. You know, there's all this negative stuff that you're noticing and telling me not to have.
[67:25]
So I'll thank you very much not to tell me not to have it because I'm going to handle it. All right. And I'm not going to hit anybody. I'm not going to stab anybody with this. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to yell at anybody. I just happen to be kind of, you know, on edge because I have a lot to think about, a lot to take care of. And when I finished my little speech and I said, well, we could watch the garlic. Oh, I'll watch the sesame seeds and people said, oh, I help. Is there anything I can do? You know, and if you shared this with all of us, I mean, it would be a lot easier for you. Boy, they picked right up on that, you know. And they figured it all out, you know, where they didn't have to tell me how to behave. They just had to, you know, participate with me in the situation and we would, and it would all happen a lot more, you know, a lot easier. And so, and it does work pretty well if instead of, for me, it works much better if somebody says to me, is there anything I can do rather than stop being like that? You know, I've been in situations and the person just, and I start to, the person says, is there anything I can do? I'm cooking a meal and, you know, everybody was late.
[68:29]
You know, they're 40 minutes, we're three hours behind. We're trying to cook for 80 people, you know, and there's a lot going on. And then I start to get into a snit about this and the woman says, is there anything I can do? Let's get real, you know. It's like, what can I do? Is there anything? And so it changes your focus a little bit, like, what are we going to do now? Instead of, you know, the fact that I'm upset and that I should or shouldn't be or whatever. So, there's something going on here where to own your own body and mind, you know, you can own all of that and it's yours and you work with it. And you can make food. And you can, and in a sense you, you know, that's a process of, you know, that in itself is a process of eating and digesting. And so owning it means you swallow it and you digest it and you get the nutritive essence and you let go of a bunch of shit. That's what digesting is. You know, and you can take the energy of all that negative, you know,
[69:32]
or so-called negative or objectionable, what somebody else is finding objectionable or what you at times find objectionable. And you can take the energy, the nutritive essence and drive and vitality of that and make something of it. You know, turn it into something. So that's something there, that's an example of owning your own body and mind, not being colonized by, oh yes, you're right, I shouldn't be like this. Oh gosh, oh, woe is me, I guess I haven't become a compassionate Buddhist after all. I don't know how to handle my negativity. Oh gosh. You're absolutely right and don't throw anything more at me and, you know, pretty soon, you know, you're in terrible, you know, quandary. Now the other side of that is the expression, you know, sometimes, so then sometimes you say, well, I'm not going to listen to anything you say because I'm not putting another head over my head. That's called cutting off your head. I think I know well enough already and so I'm not going to take any advice or any suggestions or listen to anybody else. So that's pretty stupid because all of that is also you.
[70:36]
And there's a way in which actually everybody out there is you. You know, the Zen masters say, what are all of you doing sitting in my stomach? What are you all of you doing walking around in there? Would you please watch your step? And so you can take everybody in and you listen to them but that doesn't mean you allow them, you know, to colonize you. And our culture is very good at colonizing us. You know, what colonizing means is that you get exploited, you work very hard and then you buy the products of the oppressor. You know, the movies and the videos and you want entertainment? Got to buy it. Anyway, so in short though, you try to, you go on studying, you know, what's what. And so that you know in your own life what's what.
[71:37]
Otherwise, it is just intellectual stuff. And the point is, you know, Suzuka used to say, if studying Buddhism isn't about your life and you, then why don't you do something else? So at the end of his talk I said, I don't feel like much of a Buddhist or, you know. And he said, please, you know, if you keep studying, you'll see. It's not so different. Your life is Buddhism. So I took his word for it and kept studying and it turned out he was right. But sometimes you're in a situation where you may say, well, you may say so but no thanks. You know, we're all feeling our way along that way. You've had your hand up a couple of times, Tanya. Thank you. I'm really touched by a story about this woman in New Jersey. And it reminds me of, you know, how as human beings we impact each other so greatly and not even realize it.
[72:39]
And as a child growing up, I remember there were two teachers who really impacted me in such a positive way that I don't think I would have gotten through school if it wasn't for them. And I remember their names to this day. And I think about them and how they've given to me in my life. And just hearing your story reminds me of that. And then my question is, what makes... You see, I'm enthralled by people like her. What makes someone like that? What makes a person have enough courage and love and integrity to be in a situation that's not very comfortable and have a positive impact? Well, you've... And I try, you know, I obviously try to look at that within myself.
[73:41]
And I can't always... I can't always do it. And there's special people in the world like Gandhi and all the different teachers and people that... Even my teachers, just simple growing up as a child in England, really impacted me positively. And I wish I could be more like that. Wish I could... Well, again, I feel like you've answered your own question in a way. But, you know, Robert Bly and that tape I was listening to, he said, we're all saved. You know, we've all been saved. And I don't mean religiously, but there was people in our life who saved us. That's why we're here. And there are people, you know, that didn't have that fortune. You know, there wasn't somebody there who saved them.
[74:43]
There wasn't two teachers who had this incredible positive impact. They never... There was never anybody. There wasn't their parents. And it's... So it's rare. It's rare and I feel, I feel at times, you know, a certain regret that I don't have more of this kind of capacity you're talking about to go out and be that kind of friend for people who haven't ever had that kind of friend. But at the same time, I feel like... Well, I just have to have some sort of... I mean, in a sense, a kind of compassion for myself of doing what I can in the context I am. I don't know how to do... I don't know how to jump out and live some other life. And I'm just, you know, I have to do my life and try to realize my life in the manifestation and expression of my life. And I feel like, though it does encourage me to hear somebody like Mary Prevoty, the woman in New Jersey, say,
[75:47]
I just look for the small gifts. I don't look for anything really big. I look for, you know, one smile. You know, one smile in the day.
[75:57]
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