Tonight I thought I'd talk some of, let me know by the way if you can't hear in the back someone just did. I wanted to talk tonight a little bit about relationship of teacher and student and to perhaps stir up your thinking a little bit about what is a teacher, what is a student because they kind of depend on each other. You know if there's a teacher, a teacher is only a teacher if there's a student otherwise it's just somebody or something walking around and unless it's a student that's not a teacher and for the student there has to be a teacher or there's no student. So in some ways they're the same thing. I heard the other night, I heard a saying which I had kind of forgotten about. I think I must

[01:24]

have heard it before but it's about religion and I guess it applies to a teacher too that a teacher is to comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable. So I thought I'd tell you a few of my experiences about with teachers and a little bit of my thinking about what a teacher is. I think as much as anything else the teacher introduces us to the teacher within us and helps us meet the teacher in us and the student in us. So the teacher, you know in Zen terms we'd say a teacher helps you awaken the mind that seeks the way, way-seeking mind. I said that at Tassajara one time and somebody thought I said,

[02:29]

and she wrote an article in the Fresno Bee and it said that I talked about waste-seeking mind. Well that's about as good isn't it? But my first teacher was Suzuki Roshi and it's interesting because you know to meet somebody like that and then it's a little bit like falling in love. You know that you right away almost decide this is this is somebody I could learn something from. It's somebody that I want to study with. But if you ever try to find out anything you can't find out much. Suzuki Roshi I think you know was very sly.

[03:33]

But he could be very direct too and you know and then I mean his way of being direct was I for a while was at various times well this time I was falling asleep in meditation I'd stay awake for about 20 minutes or 30 minutes you know and then there's a point where I just go boom fall asleep. So one day I saw him and he said you should sit up in the front so that when you fall asleep I can hit you. Because I used to just sit in the back of the meditation hall and he would sit in the front and most everybody's sitting facing the wall and he's sitting facing everybody. So that was interesting you know. But you know I still feel that sometimes when I fall asleep. I mean I know there's something there there's something coming you know that I didn't expect.

[04:46]

I like the the uh reading I gave you from Dogen. Realization is not like you expect. Realization is different than you might expect. It's not like you think. And we all have experiences like that day after day don't we? I don't know I can't I can't stand it sometimes you know the way the universe misbehaves. I mean as far as I'm concerned you know it doesn't do the way it's supposed to. The way I like it to. You know the way I want. One time I complained to Suzuki Ritchie at Tassajara about all the people I had to work with in the kitchen how sloppy they were and they came late and they didn't pay attention to what they were doing. Somebody could go to get a few cups of beans and be gone for 20 minutes and wonder where they are.

[05:48]

So I complained and then after a while he listened so patiently and carefully you know. Then I finally ran out of things to complain about. I wanted some advice about you know how do you get the universe to behave the way you'd like to. How do you get those people to do what you you know the way they're supposed to do it. You know this is their place they should work hard they should concentrate. And he just looked at me for a little bit and then he finally said if you want to see virtue you have to have a calm mind. I didn't think that's what I was asking. But it's a little bit like saying if you want

[06:59]

you know the teaching if you want the dharma it's different than you know what you what you think you want or the way things are supposed to be. And you'll have to be quiet and calm in order to see virtue in order to see dharma. So one of the slyest things I think that he ever said to me we were having a question and answer ceremony after a week of meditation. And the tradition is that after this week of meditation each of us asked the teacher the Roshi a question.

[08:05]

I can't remember what I asked and he answered the question then I started to walk away. And then he said the most important thing that got my attention. So I stopped and waited you know after a week of meditation you can be pretty concentrated. You can listen pretty carefully he said the most important thing is to find out what is the most important thing. Well that's kind of telling you and not telling you and not telling you and telling you isn't it? And that's something that works on you or that you can work on. It's something that can be a comfort or an affliction depending. What is the most important thing?

[09:13]

And then you can keep working on it whatever you're doing. You know when you get angry oh think about it what's really important now? Or you get discouraged what's important? What's the most important thing now? And there's something about that kind of statement then that you know it's not clear who's the teacher, who's the student. And it's letting you be your own teacher. It's not giving you the answer. It doesn't tell you the answer really. What's most important? It doesn't put you in the position of being the student perpetually.

[10:17]

I'll supply the answers as the teacher and you can be the student and receive answers. Where will you look for the answers? Do you always look for this person outside something outside? No because you're also the teacher. The teacher is you. Otherwise you have a dependent relationship. A know-it-all teacher and ignorant student. They tell me and then some teachers are very good at dispensing answers like that. But after a while you know it becomes tiresome. It becomes tiresome to have to be the one to spend all your time with these people who are always asking you for the answers. Don't they know any better? Can't they figure this out for themselves? And the students who do it because the teacher likes that, likes being important, having the answer.

[11:20]

But actually nobody's helped very much by that kind of situation. So I like that you know about the Vipassana group. When I was in Beria, I think I told you this last time I was here, I was waiting to see what happened when the person to hit the bell wasn't there. And the end of the period came according to the clock, people got up and walked out. You didn't need somebody to tell them when the end of the period was. Another thing a teacher does, you know I also spent some time with Karagiri Roshi who died recently, a few weeks ago. You know one time I was very angry for a whole period of time about Sahara. And so everybody has advice for you when you get angry, what to do about it.

[12:27]

And Suzuki Roshi, what he said to me finally was, again it's very sly, I think. You know he said, you can get angry if you want, but don't. That was very helpful. Very simple, very direct. It says it like it is. And when I went to see Karagiri Roshi, he actually called, he had somebody come and said, I want to talk to you. Usually the teacher waits until you want to talk to them, so you know if they want to talk to you, the problem. So he said, I've heard, you know it's, everybody can see you're very angry,

[13:39]

and it's disturbing the community. You'll have to do something about it. And I said, I'm just being sincere. If I feel angry, I'm angry. Other people will have to adjust to that, won't they? They'll have to learn what to do. They shouldn't be so easily disturbed. This is insane, you know, it's like that story of, I'm scratching my nose because the story is, the story is that somebody wakes up with a bit of dung on their nose, but they don't realize it's there. Then you get up and you, bad smell. Then you think it's your shirt, you pick up your shirt, still a bad smell. And then it must be the room, so you go out of the room. But everywhere you go, it's still a bad smell. And you don't realize it's me.

[14:45]

Keep thinking it's, and somebody says to you, wash your face. You know, like you have to do something about your anger. You say, what do you mean my anger? No, the bad smell is, you know, over there. You guys have the bad smell, I don't have any problem. So it takes, you know, and then finally if you ever wash your face, it's only then you realize that, you know, you have the bad smell. So I protested and he said, you really have to do something about it. And I kept protesting and finally he just said, I'm giving you a piece of advice. That was pretty simple. He said, I'm giving you a piece of advice. Oh, all right. Do you see how things sort of turned around there in the encounter with the teacher? So, you know, it's not just somebody, you know, anybody might turn it around.

[15:51]

And it might turn it around even though we didn't really want to be turned around. But we run into experiences that turn us around. So the teacher isn't always somebody, you know, in that position. Sometimes the student might turn the teacher around. The Kadagiri Roshi, I think, was quite good at helping people turn around. He used to often use the expression, let the flower of your life force bloom. You know, no matter what you say or how much you try to figure things out about how to get things to work the way you'd like, still, it's the flower of your life force bloom. And you need to let, we need to let the flower of our life force bloom.

[16:59]

Because sometimes you have to shut up and just live. One summer I was at Tassajara and Kadagiri Roshi visited and many students talked to him. And people say, oh, I'm having so much trouble with anger. I feel so lonely. I feel such sorrow. I feel such grief. The work here is too hard. And as far as I could tell, everybody who saw him, he said, oh, that he would, after a while, he would finally say, that's the flower of your life force blooming, don't you think? And almost invariably people, you know, people are kind of stuck. Oh, I've forgotten. I thought it was just anger. I thought it was just grief. I thought it was overwork. I thought it was stress. So it's like putting it, he could put it in this other context. This is the flower of your life force blooming, don't you think?

[18:05]

It's a whole other life. And this is the power that we each have, the realization that we each have. Just like Dogen's saying, the ocean isn't just circular. Anger is not just anger. Grief is not just grief. This is also the flower of your life force blooming. There's infinite characteristics and boundless virtues. And as I say, you know, it's not just, you know, the teacher is not just somebody over there

[19:09]

or somebody, you know, we call the teacher. The things in our everyday life are also, can also be teachers. I still remember at Tassajara, looking at, we had these metal teapots. You know, it's kind of, I think they're made of aluminum, actually. They're kind of gold colored. And if you carry two or three or four at a time, you know, they tend to bang into each other and get kind of, the sides get dented. And if you're not careful watching them, it's very easy to dent. So we had rows of these teapots that were all dented. I one day was looking at dented teapots and was struck by how sincere they were. I mean, they weren't embarrassed about being dented. And they weren't chagrined, weren't depressed. You know, they just went on being teapots and they just stood there, you know, with

[20:17]

all their dents, ready to take tea, ready to have hot water put in them, ready to have, you know, be used as a teapot. Many things are like that. They're very sincere, completely sincere, completely wholehearted. And if we just take the time, or if we bring this way-seeking mind, awaken the way-seeking mind, any occasion, or to see virtue, having a calm mind, we stop and awaken this calm mind, then we see sincere dented teapots. It's very touching, because each of us in some way is, I don't know about you,

[21:20]

but I feel each of us is a dented teapot. You know, not particularly, you know, shiny and together. A little dented, a little beaten up, a little banged up. But we each at the same time have that sincerity, and that wholeheartedness, that fundamental good intention. Don't you think? Not so long ago I was, I wasn't in a very good mood, feeling kind of cranky. I don't know, lately I've been cranky a lot. But this was a number of months ago, I was trying to cook some breakfast. I thought I'd make some eggs with some cheese. So the first thing I opened up the refrigerator to get out the egg,

[22:21]

and I didn't know this, but apparently that egg's been there for a while. Um, but I went to get the egg out and it's stuck. You know, it's stuck in that little egg hole there, in the refrigerator door. And since, you know, people tell me the secret, Ed, is you, you know, warm water, hot water, you put it on the egg, you let it sort of soften up, and then you can get the egg out. I didn't, I mean, that's what they say. You know, I didn't know. I was kind of in a hurry. And also, you know, I expect things to do what I want. I'm expecting, you know, if I say to come loose, if you know what's good for you, you know, you'll come loose. And so, um, I took the egg and I thought, but I'll be careful now. I'm going to be very careful, and I won't press too hard on the egg. Just wiggle it a little bit, see if I can get it loose. Without pressing too hard on the egg, without grabbing it too hard.

[23:24]

That lasted less than 10 seconds. Probably less than five seconds. Within about two seconds, the egg broke. Then I had, you know, I reached out to get the egg that was dripping down on all those other bottles that you never do anything with in the door. I don't even know what they are anymore. I probably don't want to let the egg get on them. Then I didn't know, do I wait for all the eggs to end up in the sink? And, or should I go get something to clean up with? So I waited. And finally it all dripped out into my hands, and I went and threw it in the sink, and came back and cleaned up. I got out some other eggs. I was pretty mad at that egg, you know. You know, I mean, because I have that kind of feeling like,

[24:28]

to be that mad at something, the basic idea in Buddhism, and I actually thought this way, you know, so I think what Buddhism says is true. You know, to actually get mad at an egg under those circumstances, you have to think that there's a conspiracy. You know, and that the egg got together with the refrigerator door, and it's just sitting there, you know, and then while you weren't, you know, before you came up to the refrigerator, the egg is saying to the refrigerator door, now when he opens up the door, I'm going to stick to you, you hold on to me. And the state he's in these days, this will really get him. If you think like that, then you can get angry. Otherwise, it's sort of like, you know, there's nobody there to get angry at, unless you personify the egg and the door of the refrigerator. You have to personify them, and there has to be somebody there

[25:31]

who is, you know, planning this to get you. And then you can get mad at them, you know, to teach them a lesson that if they do that to you, you're going to, you know, get mad at them. And then they won't do it to you in the future. You know, it's a kind of, it's one of the basic mechanistic ways of behavior training, you know, behavior modification. You know, there's a nice book out about, Don't Shoot the Dog, it's all about behavior modification. It's a great book. So this is one of the ways to modify behavior that works under certain circumstances, but with an egg and a door, you know, no effect. This is like the story, you know, Thich Nhat Hanh tells this story, but I think it may be from Confucius, actually, about somebody who's in a little boat out on the river, and it kind of does, you know, they ride a lantern on their boat, and then after a while, there's this big, much bigger boat that's kind of coming down the river, and they start yelling, Hey, watch where you're going! And the boat doesn't change any direction,

[26:32]

they're just a little boat, they try to get out of the way, but the boat just keeps coming right towards them. And they're yelling, Get out of the way! Hey, look out! Watch where you're going! And after a while, the boat hits them, and they're really outraged. I told you to watch where you're going! Aren't you paying any attention? Then finally, they look in the other boat, there's nobody there. See, that's the same thing. Right? What's there to be mad about, then? Didn't that boat plan anything? It didn't plan to get you. So Buddhism says that, you know, we're all like this. There's nobody there when somebody gets angry. You know, when somebody does something, there wasn't anybody there. There's no self anyway, right? So what's there to get angry about? Anyway, I do that. So I do that with the eggs. So after that, I tried to get the cheese open. Do you know, I mean, you've had these cheese packages, you know, the plastic now that they put cheese in sometimes? And, you know, it's impenetrable. You try to open it with your hands,

[27:35]

and then I didn't have one of my sharp knives with me, you know? And I got out the knife, and I, like this, you know, not a dent, not a scratch, you know, in this plastic. And I'm trying and trying to get it open, and I'm getting madder and madder, you know? And I'm saying to the cheese package, you know, open up, open up. And he's like, who needs to open up? And I'm telling the egg, let go, let go, you know? It's like, who needs to let go? You know, I think we just need to listen to ourselves talk sometimes, find out what kind of teacher we are. I finally got, I think, a pair of scissors, you know, and cut the cheese open. This is to protect us from, you know, tampering, I guess. And I thought about that, you know, so it's also irritating in a certain mind. And yet, here's an egg and the cheese package,

[28:36]

and then they're completely, you know, my teachers. You know, or I'm the teacher, you know? I just need to listen to myself, telling the egg to let go, telling the cheese package to open up. After a while, it's like, oh, yes. And then, you know, then that's when you find out the dung is on your nose, you know? And you have to wash your face, and wake up a little bit, arouse your way-seeking mind, awaken your calm mind. Calm mind often comes, you know, after these kind of storms. You know, there's a calmness after the storm. You can reflect. And, you know, we learn, once again, the universe doesn't behave the way we thought. Realization is not the way we expected. I thought if I got enlightened, you know, eggs would do what I wanted.

[29:37]

Cheese packages would do what I wanted. I mean, isn't that what enlightenment's all about? This great kind of magic wand, and everybody and everything bows down to you? Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? Well, anyway, I don't think so, but I thought. I mean, I think that sometimes. But not really. I don't really think that. I mean, when I stop and reflect, and there's a moment of calmness, I can see the egg didn't conspire. The cheese package didn't set out to do that to me. I've got dung in my face. But then I'm the student. I'm the teacher. The cheese is the teacher. The egg is the teacher. So I'm going to give you a poem to end the talk, more or less. This is, again, about saving the teacher. And something about the kind of mind that is the student, that is the teacher.

[30:45]

This is one of the sonnets to Orpheus by Rilke. Round apple. Smooth banana. Melon. Blueberry. Pea. How all this affluence speaks, death and life in the mouth. I sense, observe it in a child's transparent features while she tastes. This comes from far away. But marigold is happening in your mouth. Instead of words, discoveries flow out, astonished to be free. Dare to say what apple truly is. The sweetness that feels thick, dark, dense at first, then exquisitely lifted in your

[32:01]

taste grows clarified, awake, luminous, double meaning, sunny, earthy, real, all knowledge, pleasure, joy, inexhaustible. Each one of us has this kind of mind that we can bring to apples, or pears, or bananas, or people, to our own circumstances, where we see virtue. Where we find our life force blooming. And when we sit together like this, we can feel that kind of energy, that kind of mind.

[33:10]

It's especially noticeable when a group of people sit together like this. And you can feel it, it's palpable in the air, and you can touch it. And it's head to dust, and we nourish each other this way. So thank you very much. I'm going to be here for a little bit if anybody wants to...

[33:45]

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