Well, I'm... Now that the people who came down for the first part of the first couple of weeks are gone, it's easier for me to pay attention to the practice period. And I'm sorry if those people have taken my attention I know that the beginning of the practice period is when we should really gather ourselves together. And it's important to establish the practice period right away. And I know that you enjoyed having these people, and they enjoyed being here, but I think now we can turn our attention to just taking care of the practice period with the regular students. And I myself, I didn't get up this morning because my back, I've had a hard time with my back in the last three weeks or so.

[01:15]

And just before Christmas, I strained my back. I strained a muscle in my back. And exercising, actually. And it's given me a lot of trouble. So, taking on the extra sitting here at Tassajara, after about the third period, it's really hard for me to sit up. He kind of knows me during meals, bending over and so forth. So this morning, being a day off, I thought I would just not do any zazen and see how that felt. And that made the day a lot easier. And I am getting some massage and people have been encouraging me to rest and so forth. It was very hard because I always feel it's very difficult for me to deviate from the schedule.

[02:17]

I feel very guilty when I deviate from the schedule, even though actually I could do whatever I wanted. And everybody says, oh, that must be the right way. So I am making my effort, and I will sit as much as I can. But sometimes I may have to take some... It may be helpful for me just to rest my back. And when we were at Mount Madonna, having a board meeting last year. Mount Madonna is this wonderful place, you know, where we have board retreats. And they had these low chairs, a cushion with a back, that sit on the floor. And I said to Barbara, let's order some of those for the Abbott's cabin. And they arrived today. Just in time.

[03:23]

And it's very comfortable. It may be at some point after the third or fourth doksang, I'll sit in my chair, because you can't tell whether I'm sitting in a chair or not. If you sneak around behind me, I'll hit you. So anyway, that's my condition. So it doesn't feel good to be in this position, you know. But there it is. And that's my practice. My practice is actually to deal with this condition. So I'll do the best I can. So please bear with me. What else?

[04:25]

So I want to continue with our study. And, you know, this text is divided into two parts. The first part is stories. which are exemplary stories. You've probably been reading it, and you can see that the first part is exemplary stories of how various monks in the Tang Dynasty in China practiced in their positions. And the second part talks about what some of these positions are and how the person in this position should act.

[05:32]

So I want to kind of go back and forth, some stories, and then just kind of going through the text of how, like, how the Kanin should take care of people, which is very interesting, actually. And I think that there's a lot that we can discuss. So This is discussion, and anywhere that you have a question, you can interject your question, but wait for me to come to a stopping point before you do so. And I would like to have discussion, so please feel free to do that. So I thought that I would read, might as well start out in the beginning, which is this very funny story. And you probably already know that it's not a true story, but it's a fairy tale, a Buddhist legendary fairy tale.

[06:47]

But fairy tales carry the truth. whereas sometimes the truth is a fairytale. So I'll just start reading it, and then we can discuss it. So Dogen says, The officers in a monastery are precious and venerable. Those who hold the way and whose virtue is mature in the way are to be selected. Here are some examples. Nanda, who was a stepbrother of Shakyamuni Buddha, even though it doesn't say that in the text, they both had the same father. Or something like that. It's really hard. I've been trying... Nanda and Ananda are two different people. And Ananda was a cousin of the Buddha. And Nanda was the Buddha's half-brother.

[07:49]

And so what the relationship between Nanda and Ananda is, I'm not sure. One text says he's their cousins, and the other says they're brothers. But I'm not worried about that, but it is a little puzzling to me. But Nanda, a stepbrother of Shakyamuni Buddha, a lay student of the Tathagata, realized arhathood when he was serving as an officer. The womb storehouse sutra says, When the World Honored One was in the city of Kapilavastu, he informed Nanda, by visiting him and shedding light in his house, that the time for him to receive the precepts was at hand." Apparently Buddha could, you know, he had this light shining from his forehead and he illuminated various things. So, he informed Nanda by visiting him and shedding light in his house that the time for him to receive the precepts was at hand.

[08:50]

Nanda thought, this must be the world-honored one. He sent someone to look, and sure enough, it was the world-honored one. Nanda wanted to see for himself. His wife thought, if I let him go out and look, he will suddenly be moved to leave the household and become a monk. So she tugged on his robe and Nanda said, I'll be right back. And she said, please come back before my makeup dries. Nanda said, oh, of course I will. So this is kind of not so nice, is it? Please come back before my makeup dries. Kind of making his wife, you know, kind of look like a an actress or a prostitute or, you know, something like that.

[09:59]

The Buddha handed Nanda his bowl and asked Nanda to serve him rice in it. When Nanda came back with the rice, the Buddha was gone. So Nanda offered it to Ananda. Ananda said, who gave you this bowl? Nanda said, the Buddha did. Then Ananda said, then you should go and give it to the Buddha yourself. So Nanda went away and found the Buddha and offered him the bowl. Buddha asked the disciple to shave Nanda's head. That was quick. He really seems to want Nanda to do something. He doesn't want him to be a layperson and a householder. He really wants him to be a monk. He's really chasing him down, things like that. So Nanda said to the disciple who was shaving his head, you can't hold a razor to the head of the prince of Jambudvipa.

[11:05]

But then he thought, even though I obey the world on the morning, I'll just go home in the evening. Buddha understood this thought and transformed the place where Nanda stood into a deep pit. so that he was unable to return home. Entrapment. Buddhist entrapment. And there are people who really wanted to be priests and we don't let them. Buddha said to Ananda, Make Nanda an officer. Make Nanda a Chiji. Appoint Nanda to an office of Chiji, actually. Ananda conveyed Buddha's word to Nanda. And Nanda said, what is an officer?

[12:10]

This is a setup, see? What is an officer? And Ananda said, that's a job of taking responsibility in the temple. And Nanda said, what kind of work is it? Ananda said, after the monks go out begging, you sweep the garden, sprinkle water, collect firewood, remove cow dung, cleanse the place, make sure that all things are not taken, close the gates and doors and such for the sangha. In the evening, you open up the gates and clean the toilets. That doesn't sound like an officer to me. Strangely enough, it doesn't sound like a lot of work that a junior person would do. When this conversation was over, the monks went out to beg. So Nanda, who was all alone, went to close the gates for the Sangha. When he closed the gate in the West, the gate in the East flapped open.

[13:12]

When he closed the gate in the East, the gate in the West opened. And this went on and on. Nanda said to himself, If something is stolen, then in the future, when I become a king and build hundreds and thousands of beautiful temples, that should be more than enough to compensate for any loss. If anybody steals something, don't worry, I'll fix it." So he went home. Fearful that he would run into the Buddha, if he took the main road, he took a back road. But nevertheless, he ran into Buddha on his way home. He hid himself in a bush, but when the wind blew, his body was revealed. Buddha said, what are you doing here? And Nanda replied, I'm worried about my wife. Or, I'm impatient to see my wife. The Buddha took him into a garden called the Deer Park outside the city. The Buddha said, have you ever been, have you ever seen intoxicating fragrant mountain?

[14:17]

Intoxicating fragrance mountain? Nanda said, not yet. Here it says, no, I haven't. But other texts say, not yet. I like that. Not yet. The Buddha, putting Nanda in the seam of his robe and flying with him, instantly arrived at that mountain. There are fruit trees on the mountain, and under the trees there was a female monkey with burnt-out eyes. The Buddha said, how is this monkey compared to a celestial deva? Nanda said, devas are desireless. How can one compare this poor monkey to a deva?" And Buddha said, have you seen a deva? Nanda answered, no, not yet. Then the Buddha, putting him in his robe again, took him to the 33rd heaven and showed him around. He then brought him to a pleasure park and showed him beautiful women and maidens. He also showed him the garden of intercourse and let him hear the

[15:20]

various pleasurable sounds. At one spot, there was a celestial woman without a partner. Nanda asked the Buddha about her, and Buddha suggested that he speak to her directly. When Nanda asked why she was alone, she responded, The Buddha's brother, Nanda, by keeping the precepts, will be born here and will become my husband. The Buddha said to Nanda, what do you think of this woman compared to your wife, Sundari? He replied, comparing this celestial woman to my wife is like comparing my wife to that blind donkey, blind monkey. Then the Buddha said, if you hold to the Brahman practice, you will receive this merit. By maintaining the precepts now, you will be born in this celestial realm. In other words, this will be your fate. your destiny.

[16:22]

Then Nanda accompanied the Buddha and went back to the Jeta Grove. After that, Nanda maintained this Brahman practice, longing for this heavenly place. Another translation is impatient to be with the fair maiden. Longing for this heavenly palace. And Buddha told the community of monks, don't follow Nanda's practice. See, it's a kind of trick. Don't follow Nanda's practice. So none of the monks stayed with Nanda and would not stay in the same place where Nanda was sitting. So Nanda said to himself, Ananda is my younger brother. He wouldn't abandon me. So he went to Ananda. And when he sat down, Ananda stood up and was about to leave. Nanda said, you are my younger brother. How can you abandon your older brother?" Ananda replied, because your practice is different from mine.

[17:24]

What do you mean by that? Your ultimate wish is to be born in the Deva's world, and my wish is Nirvana. When Nanda heard this, he became more and more worried. Then the Buddha asked him, Have you seen Naraka hell? Nanda said, No, I haven't. So Buddha put him back into the sleeve of his robe and showed him the various hells. Each place had prisoners or inmates. But there was one place without anybody. So Nanda asked the Buddha why. And Buddha told him to speak directly to the keeper. The keeper said, The Buddha's brother, Nanda, is practicing in order to be in the devas' world. He will stay there for a while and will come back here to receive his torture. Nanda was frightened and shed tears like rain and told the Buddha what he felt. The Buddha said, if you practice for the pleasure of being in the Deva's world, you will have this problem.

[18:29]

Well, I think most of you know, but maybe some of you don't, that in the Buddhology there are 33 heavens. So I think in Christianity, you either are in heaven or in hell. It's very simplistic. But in Buddhism, there are 33 heavens and innumerable hells. And one doesn't stay in any one place. But when the karma, when your karma, even if you go to the highest heaven, at some point your karma runs out and then you migrate to some other realm. So heaven is not a, it's just another place. So if you practice for the pleasure of being in the deva's world, you will have this problem. It's not the highest place to long for. That's kind of the gist of this thing, actually.

[19:35]

Even though you get something wonderful that you like, it's still not the final place to want to be. So Nanda went back to the Jada Grove with Buddha. who expounded the overall principles, actually, I think it's the womb of the Tathagata, the commentary on the womb of the Tathagata, how one actually is born as a Buddha. And consequently, Nanda for the first time aroused the wish for emancipation and maintain the precepts, and in the end attain the fruit of arhatship, which at that time was the highest attainment. So this story is kind of a fairy tale, but the point

[20:38]

is that Buddha seems to have wanted, had a lot of compassion for his brother, his half-brother, and felt that unless he took some skillful means, that his brother wouldn't be able to... he would never find himself. And so he had to go to these drastic means. In those days, and still today in India and other places in the world, child marriages were very common. And when we think about Buddha leaving his family, very likely his marriage was an arranged one. probably he got married when he was 12 years old or something.

[21:47]

And what the feeling was with that kind of arrangement and what the relationship was, it's hard to say actually. So it's hard for us to judge in some way what was going on in those arrangements. And when Buddha left his family, it's hard to know, you know. He must have felt very trapped in his arrangement. And seeing that there was... that he couldn't pursue his destiny in that way. But it's difficult for us to understand. And so Buddha, in this story, taking Nanda away from his wife and his family in order to become a monk seems very strange to us, seems very cruel.

[22:58]

And then Buddha seems to care for the monk but doesn't care for the wife. It's really interesting. So what do you think about all this as a story? Or what does this bring up for you? I think it's terrible. Besides being terrible. And I think it perpetuates all the stuff I really hate about these stories. These stories? Well, the stories and the story of Buddha's life. Yeah. You feel the same way. I think that the paradigm here is one of I have great aspirations, and the reality of my situation keeps me from finding myself. Therefore, I have to leave everything that I have a commitment to, at least on a mental level, and go somewhere else to fulfill myself, which is a modern paradigm as well.

[24:04]

Well, I'm not sure if that was the problem with Shakyamuni. He had everything. Yeah, right. But supposing he hadn't done that? Maybe. It does seem a little self-centered. It's like Nanda is really very interested in himself one way or the other. He's having pleasure in saving himself. Nanda is interested in what? In saving himself. He's very self-centered all the time. He's either having pleasure for himself, or he's saving himself from hell, or he's saving, but it's all self-centered.

[25:08]

Self, self, self. I thought it was interesting how Buddha intended fear of hell in Nanda, and that was sort of what he came for. Well, it's not only fear of hell, but fear of heaven. So we have both of those in the story. We have both the fear of heaven and the fear of hell. That's pretty good. My feeling I have about it too is that it was about this person growing up, you know, that he's in the realm of desire and aversion, and when he sees that they're related, then he wants to become, he wants to be enlightened.

[26:15]

He wants to become an Arhat. And it's only, the Buddha has to show it to him by showing him himself. You know, this is how you relate to your wife. Not, there's anything wrong with your wife. But this is how you relate to her, you relate to her like you relate to this heavenly maiden. And the same thing will happen to you, you'll, you know, you'll just go to hell if that's how you're going to relate to, you know, the world as something to be desired or something to cause aversion. So that was the feeling I got, that it wasn't about the wife or the heavenly maiden, it's about his maturity. And that's what he sees, that that's how he's acting or relating to things. willing to do that, follow the precepts. Well, yeah. Your description of rejecting both clinging and aversion, that's very powerful in the story. I think that's a very powerful part of the story.

[27:17]

Carol? I don't see a problem with the story in that very few people today would think people, I would imagine, would think people needed to stay in a relationship where they were trapped. People seem to be accepting of people's need to change in certain circumstances. So, I don't see... The story is portraying life in a sort of unsympathetic light to begin with. So, you know, trying to convey, I think, that something happening there wasn't harmonious. And also, the crazy-wise tradition, I believe, is that we not be caught in a pure temple, a more conventional house. Well, I think that just because people don't feel that they need to stay in relationships doesn't mean that they shouldn't do it.

[28:28]

I think people get out of relationships too easily. I tend to not agree with that part of what you said. All relationships run into difficulty And most relationships run into the kind of difficulty where you have to make some choices. And it's very easy to just stop the relationship in order to feel that you need your freedom. And I think it's important to find your freedom within your relationship. Which doesn't mean that sometimes it's necessary to go out on your own. Sometimes it's necessary to do that. I doubt if Shakyamuni would have been able to find what he did unless he left home.

[29:33]

He may have started something else, as someone said, but... Anyway, Stuart, did you have something to share? Well, I was just interested in looking at this as a story about me. It would be my story. And at first I felt a lot of distance from it. It had nothing to do with me at all. And then as I reflected on it, it was clear that in some strangely disorienting way, describes a lot, in some respects, how I did approach practice.

[30:36]

Moving toward it and away from it. Making deals with myself. Hoping for something out of it. Thinking I would go along for a little while. You know, all of these things. And these magical experiences that seem something completely foreign, but actually I think that's the truth. which I have no knowledge, suddenly are revealed to me, and insight into consequences of action suddenly become clear, strangely and unexpectedly. So, it's kind of funny. It's an uncomfortable story about me. It's an uncomfortable story about all of us. It's really the story of each one of us. It's not the story about somebody else. If we look at it, it's our story. It's a story about monks, actually, and about home leavers.

[31:44]

That's what it's about. It's a home leaver. And, unfortunately, the wife is the scapegoat. But, in a symbolic way, It's the wife, it's also our self, right? We got both sides. We're both Amanda and the wife. And these are the two sides of our self, which are sometimes in harmony and sometimes not, sometimes in divergence. But you could put it the other way around, you know. It could be the other way around. It could be the wife, the one to leave, and Nanda, who is the one at home.

[32:47]

And you just completely reverse the roles and have it played out in that way. But anyway, I think we all feel funny about, you know, the wife being scapegoat. I just wanted to say that I agree with you. I see that the wife being another aspect of the protagonist. I feel very identified with her too. And for me, although my wife is here, in this story, my wife is still at home waiting for me. And there is that kind of feeling of impatience that calls to worldly life. Yeah. And Shakyamuni is also there. So actually we're all three in some way. We're showing ourselves, you know, we lead ourselves in some way. And so Buddha is also, is one part of us, and Nanda is another part, and the wife is the other part.

[33:59]

And there's this drama that goes on. in each one of us. So... Shiso? Almost? I think implicit in this story is the fact that it's okay to leave the world, because by staying in the world, we just perpetuate karma. And by actually leaving the world and obtaining liberation, we can come back and help the world So if you don't leave the world, it's not anything novel. First we have to leave the world, and then we can come back. Well, that's a good point. And even in this monastery, you know, we come to the monastery for a certain period of time. Some people may stay here, but most people go back into the world. But it's also

[35:03]

In the world and out of the world, leaving the world and being in the world is also the two sides of ourselves. And leaving home doesn't necessarily mean to go someplace. How do you leave home without leaving home? That's an important part of practice as well. But in a sense, you know, you can say everyone here is left home. For at least a time. We're all here having left home. Although people say, oh, this is my home, you know. But actually, this is nobody's home. Monastery here is nobody's home. Permanent home. and this not being necessarily, you know, I'm here now.

[36:08]

I felt that during my life, you know, early years of the trouble with, you know, the parents and the outcast and the rebel and so on and so forth, that disease, that's what I call it, not being at ease with circumstances you know, what's going on. When that first became aware, I became aware of that, that there was something there that was being fulfilled, whether it was with drugs, with money, girlfriends, you know, whatever. That's when that, you know, coming in contact, like, to bring Gulch, and Zen, and Buddhism, or whatever, that way-seeking mind, I mean, it was already there, and it's like something clicked. I identified with that, and it was like, well, You know, it was kind of like something that was there all along, but it was brought more into your focus.

[37:11]

You were stimulated somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Not something new, not something that was induced into you, but produced from you. Always there, the seed, or the potential was always there. Yeah, indeed. Really? Yes. For some reason, when I think of home leaving, I think of when the Buddha was enlightened and he said, you know, oh, house builder, you know, the ritual is broken. Well, I think that in some way, the way that home leaving is taught is something literal, so that you can actually understand that it's an internal thing. And that's what he was talking about when he said that. But it first has to be looked at in this literal way, so you can actually get the feeling of what that means, you know, to drop things, and then... That's true.

[38:14]

Someone can actually leave home, but they haven't really left. No, it's all in spirit. But someone can actually be where they are, and it's true. But times have changed, you know. Times have changed a lot. And Buddhism, you know, keeps changing. And has to, you know, conform in some way. To not conform completely, but in some way to conform to times and what's going on. And it seems that at this point in time, lay life seems to be very big in Buddhism.

[39:16]

Whereas monastic life is not so prominent as lay life. There aren't so many, very many monasteries that really, you know, have a lot of students. Tassajara is probably one of the most active. But most Buddhist practice is lay practice these days. So the emphasis and the feeling is changing. Not that it will be completely changed. There should always be monastic practice. But there is a big emphasis on householder practice and lay practice these days. When Buddha was showing him the hell realms where he was and then the one where he was supposed to be going to, I also saw that he was showing him where he already was.

[40:18]

He was already looking at something outside of himself and also isolating himself from others. Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering, so at what point does home leaving actually become a reality, per se, for us? Or for the things that we have actually... Is that like the beginning, or is that just the gate? Home leaving is... The gate that we've actually left, that we really haven't... Well, whether you have left your abode or gone someplace, there's actually no place, no single place that is your home, except where you are.

[41:31]

So, for a home leaver, wherever you are, that's your home. But it's not a permanent home. The permanent home has to be found where you are. So, for, I think, Zen students, our home is Zazen. Our true home is Zazen, which is where we are. It's not a place. It's not some place outside of ourselves. I think that's true home leaving. But in order to establish that, sometimes we have to leave a place. so that we know that there's... and so that we're not attached to some place as home. I think that's home leaving and leaving attachments. But attachment is another whole big subject. What is attachment? Because we all have attachments, you know.

[42:37]

But how do we find our freedom within the attachments that we have? And without taking on new attachments. So it's a big subject, attachment and non-attachment. Do you think he would have left, he would have entered the monastery if there wasn't a job there for him? Well, he had to do something. So Buddha gave him this job. What do you mean? Well, you have to do something with yourself. He could have given him a job in an office. He could have given him a different job, yeah. They didn't have an office there. It was 2,500 years ago. No fax machines.

[43:39]

They gave him a job as a Jigita. They actually gave him a job as Jigita. That was the position that he had, I think. What we would call the Jikido. Taking care of the place, you know, while everybody else was doing their thing. Taking care of them. We called Jikido the one who does the... takes care of them. Zendo, all day. But he was taking care of the monastery while everybody else left, probably to go begging. But anyway, I think it's important to see it as, not as a put-down of women, but as a symbolic story about the process that we go through, and the various parts of ourselves, the Buddha part, the home-leaver part, and that which is left behind, and why that happens.

[44:43]

And as Wendy said, finding the non-duality, the non-dualistic aspect between grasping at heavenly things and rejecting hellish things. Grasping at what we like, at the phantoms that we like, and pushing away the phantoms that we don't like. So, Anyway, it's an interesting story, whatever you think about it.

[45:21]

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