Well, this sutra, this fascicle of Dogon, really extends to all facets of our practice. Can you hear that working? So I want to talk a little bit about the practice of serving food, which is very much related to cooking food. When we first started Tassajara, the cooks, we had this little kitchen, and the cooks would cook the meal and then they would come out and serve it. So it was all done by, both the serving and the cooking and the serving were done by the servers. Then they would have their own meal much later and do their own chanting and so forth. That was before, of course, the serving crews were developed. But serving, there's several things to understand about serving.

[01:15]

One is stability. When you're serving, you should always find your stability. So stability means knowing how to be centered, to find your center while you're moving and while you're acting, so that when you're walking with the tray or whatever, you're aware of your center. and you're aware of your step. I always ask people not to walk on your heels, because that's how we normally walk. Boom, boom, boom. But in this endo, it's boom, boom, boom, because it's like a drum. Not to put your foot down softly on the floor.

[02:16]

So you're always aware of your footsteps. You're aware of your footsteps, you're aware of your center, and you're aware of your breathing. So this is practice. It's not just serving people food. It's finding your stability and being centered in zazen while you are doing this act. Then when we serve each other, there's an offering and there is an acceptance. Unless there's an acceptance, the offering doesn't mean anything. So receiving is as important as giving. So when we're sitting being served, we should also be in zazen. We should also be stabilized and centered and attentive to what we're doing. And when the server comes to

[03:20]

match the server, and the server matches the one that's being served. So you have a real interaction, even though it's just very brief. So when we bow, there's a meeting. It doesn't have to be ostentatious or deep, simply a meeting. The meeting is at the end of the bow when it stops. This is uh, boom. You know, when the doshi does the third bow, or the bow just before chanting, the doshi goes like this, and then the doling goes clunk on the bell, and clunk, and it just feels like we're in a real meeting. Something significant has happened called meeting. Boom, like that. So, when we serve, and are being served, it's boom.

[04:24]

At the end of the bow, it's where you stop that the actual energy of the bow takes place. The swing doesn't matter. Although, I won't say. We should swing when we bow. boom, we meet. So the server and the served meet, and then the server steps forward and hands, and offers the tray. And then usually what I was taught by Kadayori Roshi was you take your, you hold your bowl, but when you're served tea, For instance, you put one hand on the cup and the other one underneath the tray, just to balance the tray. There's a gesture of helping to balance the tray, because the server has the tray at this end, and then you put your hand underneath, and then two hands on the cup.

[05:39]

So receiving the food, the way we receive matches the way it's served. So that's important. And when we receive seconds, before I say that, when we serve, we're serving up the food, and we have a pot, and we put the pot down carefully on the top, and then we stir the pot. so that what's on the bottom comes to the top and what's on the top goes to the bottom. It's called stirring things. The heavy stuff, by the time the food gets to being served, the heavy stuff is all going down to the bottom. This is especially true of soup. So you always want to keep the pot being stirred So that, and then often people would just start off the top. So the first half gets the water and toward the end people start getting the substance.

[06:52]

So you want to mix the substance with the water so that there's an even amount of substance and water. Now there are some dishes where you want to put substance in and then some water. in order to even it out that way. But you should be able to discern, what is this need? When I'm serving these people, what am I serving them? Am I just mindlessly dipping and putting what I mindlessly dip into the bowl? I don't think so. What am I serving them? Am I serving them just the stuff off the top or the stuff off the bottom or what? in order to make people feel at ease and comfortable, we should think about how we're going to serve any particular dish. Sometimes when we make a salad, the cooks are very artistic and they, all, a lot of, the,

[08:04]

interesting things are at the bottom and all the lettuce is on the top. So the first people, the first half get all the lettuce and the other people get all the stuff at the bottom. So a dish like that should be mixed so that the people in the front get the same as the people in the back. So this kind of consideration is important We may not think it's important, but I think it's important, and probably most of us do. So we should think about that when we serve. What are we giving to these people? And then there's a bit of avocado over there, and then there's lettuce here. So somebody gets all the lettuce, but they don't see that there's avocado and tomato over there, so they don't serve it. And the person being served says, But you're not supposed to say anything.

[09:14]

But that's good for the person being served, because they say, thank you very much, for nothing. Okay, so when you're serving on the floor, serving the people on the floor, you should go down on at least one knee. Two knees is good, but one knee is okay, because it's very unstable to be on your haunches. Sometimes when somebody's sitting there on their haunches serving, I feel like getting up and pushing them over. I won't do that. But stability, the purpose of getting down on one or two knees, two knees is better, is that you're stable. That's a stable position. So you're always looking for a stable position. continuously, that's called continuous practice, you're always finding a stable position no matter what you're doing.

[10:19]

It's called zazen, that's practicing zazen continuously. When you're sitting you're always looking for the stable position, when you stand up you're looking for the stable position. When you do Kinhin, you're practicing the stable position. You're centering yourself. And Zazen, Kinhin is just walking Zazen. So your posture is the same as in Zazen. Your breathing is the same. Your attention is the same. And your center of balance is the same. And then when you do all your other activities, you're still doing that. And as much as you can remember, you're doing it all the time, whether you're driving your car, walking, interacting, and so forth. So if you keep practicing that all the time, then that will become natural for you. So that is an aspect of continuous practice.

[11:29]

So our practice in the Zen Dojo has some purpose other than just formality. It's a way of mindful action that keeps us centered and alert to what we're doing all the time. And then when you're working in the kitchen, this is the attitude that you take into the kitchen. And if you have a question. In terms of serving and the size of the serving. Oh, good point. Good point. First and second. Yes, thank you. So, for all practical purposes, this is not always true, but generally speaking, the first scoop is a full scoop and then the second scoop is smaller.

[12:37]

So, the person says, well, I'll take another scoop, but what they mean is a smaller scoop. But then sometimes the first scoop is small and the person says, well, a little more, and then the second scoop is huge. So, that's backwards. So the first group is like, you know, okay. And I know we say we want to tell the server, you know, when to stop. And that sometimes works. And that's okay. But just anyway, to take a smaller scoop on the second one, because it's building When you build something, you want to build the foundation on the bottom and the rest in smaller increments on the top. So, in that sense, it's just logical. It's not about the actual serving, but what we read?

[13:43]

What we read. Can I ask about that? What we read. Varachana. We read homage to Varachana. Oh, yeah. Yeah, in the meal sutra. What about that? Who is that? Well, I'm curious. I always have the impression, maybe misimpression, that those were associated more with Tibetan Buddhism. I've never heard of it in Australian Zen, Japanese Zen. Well, yes. It doesn't mean it's not. theology, not theology, but service associated chants and cosmology from the Shingon and the Tendai schools. So that's how that comes to be in our chanting, all of it, it's just because Zen has no

[14:47]

nothing, but we assimilate and use those esoteric chants and cosmology which has crept in from esoteric Buddhism. And it's meaningful because it's how we express the Dharmakaya, the Sambhogakaya, the Nirmanakaya, and Manjushri, and so forth. So that's all part and parcel of Zen way of expressing, of expression. Did they chant in China? Yeah, they still do. Back in their home towns? I mean, I don't know exactly what everything was that was chanted, but yeah, chanting's always been a part of Buddhism.

[15:54]

But there are some Chan schools or teachers that didn't do that. Ritual was not part of some schools, teachers anyway. Well that's right, and so the practices of one kind of blended in with the practices of another before the schools were more isolated, separated from each other. And today in China, all the monasteries are mixed practices, most of them anyway. That's pretty much always been Chinese.

[16:58]

So, regarding the office of Tenzo, Stories such as these I mentioned previously about Guishan and Dongshan have been passed down through the ages. In addition to the monks from Mount Tiantong and Mount Ayuwang, those two tenzos, I met and talked with monks who served as tenzo from other monasteries. If we look closely into some of these stories, we will realize the meaning of characters and the nature of practice. Actually, just working as tenzo is the incomparable practice of the Buddhas. Even one who accedes to the head of the community should have these same attitudes. I think I read that. But I'll read. In the Chan Nguyen Quynh Nguy, we find, prepare each meal with meticulous care. He kind of repeats himself. Making sure there is enough. Do not be remiss in the four offerings of food.

[18:12]

clothing, bedding, and medicine. So these are the four offerings which monks need and which people supply them with, food, clothing, bedding, and medicine. Those are the four needs of a renunciate. Shakyamuni was to have lived to 100 years of age but died at 80, leaving 20 years for his disciples and descendants. that he was supposed to have lived that long, but then somehow there was some reason why he died other than eating poisoned pork. Someone served him some old meat. Some people say it was mushrooms, but the word actually means pork.

[19:14]

And so he was ill for a while and then he said, don't worry about this. This is, you know, this is supposed to happen according to the legend. So he died at 80 instead of 100. Is it too much of a stretch to say when we have an accident and something wrong or whatever gets sick I don't think that's what he did. Well, anything can happen. I think it's hard to tell what is read into something and what is not.

[20:26]

So, legend is legend and most of it you read into it and people read stuff into it. I don't know why he died 20 years early for his disciples. I don't understand that quite. I probably did at one time, but I can't remember. So, Jim, is there a story about when Shakyamuni gets sick from having whatever he did, and he's saying, he says three times to Ananda, well, I could revive if only I'm asked to. take him up on it twice and the third time he finally does and chuck him when he says, basically, too late. I don't think I heard that one. Maybe. I mean, it could be. But that would be kind of mean. Yeah, really laying guilty.

[21:27]

Well, it hooks into this idea, OK, these are 20 extra years for you to bring forth the teaching. Well, yes, but I don't know about Ananda not doing that, but I do know, but what my understanding is, is that he said, there's something about this that's right. So I'm just going to go along with it, because there's something about it that's right. No, because a Buddha was not a vegetarian. He begged for his food and he ate whatever people put into it, into his bowl. That's actually monks' practice. Whatever the people put into your bowl is what you eat, and according to the Vinaya

[22:31]

If an animal is not killed specifically to feed you, specifically, but simply is killed for a general consumption, then you're allowed to eat it because it's no longer an animal. Once it's killed and butchered, you don't say, this is a cow, you say, this is meat. So it's really no longer an animal, it's meat. Just like when we eat tofu, we don't say, this is soybeans. If you said to tofu, do you know that once you were soybeans, tofu would laugh at you. Say, are you kidding? Soybeans, me? So who does the killing then? I beg your pardon? Whoever does... Right, some poor sucker has to do that.

[23:45]

Well, this has always been the case in every country, not just the Jewish tradition. Yeah, so this is so everywhere in the world and in Japan. the butchers are looked down on as third-rate people, and this is one reason why we changed the segaki to sejiki.

[24:59]

I don't understand it completely, but segaki has to do something to do with the derogatory feeling against people who are butchers, even though people eat meat. So society is a very funny thing. Let's stand up. So we're just beginning to get into this, and we need about five more days.

[26:58]

So he says, we today are living in favor of Shakyamuni's merit. If we were to receive even one ray of light emitted from his byōgakugo, byōgakuko, that's this tuft of hair which envelops that light on the middle of his forehead, between his eyebrows, we would be unable to exhaust its merit. The text goes on to say, you should think only about how to best serve the community, having no fear of poverty. As long as your mind is not limited, you will naturally receive unlimited fortune. The head of the community should generate this attitude toward serving the residents." So no fear of poverty. Everyone has a fear of poverty, almost, except for a monk. You know, poverty is when you think you should have more than you have and you don't have it, but if you think, this is fine, I don't need any more than this, then it's not poverty.

[28:29]

So then we think, well what about all these people that are in poverty that have nothing and are starving to death and all this, that's poverty. because they should have more than they have. Strictly speaking, a monk depends on the virtue of practice in order to be supportive. That's why in the meal sutra it says, we hope that our virtue and practice deserve this food. So this is actually a chant for monks because the only payment they have, the only way they have of being supported is through their practice and the virtue of their practice. And if people don't want to feed them, they don't eat.

[29:38]

So they're not allowed to cultivate. They're not allowed to work. They're not allowed to do anything except to go out and beg for one meal a day. And of course, when they live together in the vihara, the monastery, they go out together, then they collect the food, and then put it together. In Japan it's called Takohatsu and it's not done every day, it's done at certain times and it's a supplement to their meals, but everything is subsidized and through people's contributions. So the monks are bound to do things for the laity who support them, and so their job is to take care of funerals and give people teaching, that's how they're supported.

[30:52]

But there are different ways in America, there are different ways of being supported, but be supported in various ways, and to have businesses and stuff like that. I've never asked for money, but people always supported me, but I have to say I've never really asked for money, or a raise, or anything like that. So I have a lot of confidence, even though I'm not a good monk, I have a lot of confidence that if you practice and depend on your practice and help people, that you'll always be supported. And that's what Dogen is always saying, saying you need to trust, have faith in the faith.

[31:55]

If, you know, when you, trust in that way, this is what brings forth faith. Because somehow you know that what you do is generating, you have faith in the fact that if you practice the Dharma, you'll be supported. The universe will support you. So that's kind of a test of faith and practice. Well I wouldn't call it poverty, I would call it reducing your desires to what you need.

[32:58]

If we reduce our desires to what we need and do it in such a way that you feel this is my practice and you're not just depriving yourself of something but you're living on that edge, then that's good practice and some people do that. We have great examples of people who do that, just because to work enough to support your practice and yourself so you can give yourself to practice. Like Ross does that. Don't you? Pretty much. Under special circumstances.

[34:06]

I live here. Yeah. We are living here because I love college. So, yes, it's easy for me, but like John's question, I think it's for a lot of people whose lives are much more complex. How do you think it works? Right, so this is one example, but everyone has, because everyone's life is different, we have to be able to manage that within the complications. applications and substance of our life. So you have one set of criteria. Someone else has other responsibilities. Someone may have two or three children. How do you manage with that? Well, there's a way to do that. There has to be a way to practice if you have a wife and a husband and three children.

[35:10]

So the question is, how do I do that? Do I just let the society drive me, and to a certain extent we have to cooperate with society, it's important to cooperate with society, but you don't have to be driven by the society or controlled by the society. I was going to say, it seems like our standards have changed, because in the 21st century in America, and in many wealthy Western countries, we have this issue of universal health care. 300 years ago, there was universal health care, because there was no health care at all. So 300 years ago, there was an expectation about what life was about, and how one lived, and what happened when you got ill, and it's very different today.

[36:18]

True security will never happen, that's right, because in the end, you die. True security never happens. It's what happens in between, right? that counts. So how do you live your life, given that in between what we call birth and death, how do you live your life in the little births and deaths that happen all the time? And what do we really need? Because we have something called the standard of living, which is totally arbitrary. But we keep raising the ante.

[37:31]

At one time we needed a radio, and then we needed a television, and then we needed a computer, and then we needed an iPod, and then we needed a greater iPod, and then we needed a great, great, great iPod. What do we really need? A what? A shovel? It's a tiny iPod. A tiny iPod? Well, what we need is an implant. You know, some years ago Judy Smith was sitting here and she's a disabled woman in a wheelchair and I remember her and I'm reminded of her today because a lot of the questions that come in in response to this Her question was like, how do you practice, you know, with disability? There's no books on it.

[38:35]

You've heard this, Judy, you have to write the book on how to practice with disability. So I think we have to write a book on how to practice in the world with household kids, all of that. That's a good one, yes. Yeah, because what happens is there's always going to be this dichotomy. Well, that was back then in the monastery. Right. That's right. We have to write the book. And I said to her, well, you know, if you're really devoting yourself and giving your services, I think the ethics of defaulting on your loans, you could argue that it would be okay.

[40:19]

I said, but you know, I said, it could be. Well, that's another question. Well, she created karma and so she has to deal with that. One thing that, although this goes against a lot of grains, never create debt. Never create, I've never created debt. I've never paid for anything on time except My wife's father gave her, us, some money for a down payment on a house.

[41:28]

But we couldn't even get credit, even though we had that. But they finally gave us credit. But I would never buy anything on time for credit. That's one way to manage your life, because credit is driving the society. Everybody, people are getting caught in credit crunches, and they'll get more and more caught in credit crunches. But what do we need that we have to do that? Well, yes, there are certain basic things, but... Education? Maybe. Maybe. I mean, we think that's necessary. Yeah, we think that's necessary. If it's necessary to you, then do it, I would say. But you have to question. We don't question that. We say, well, that's necessary.

[42:31]

But I think it's important, before you do something, to question, is it necessary? Because we always think all these things are necessary, and nothing will change as long as we think all these things are necessary. It's very radical. Nothing will change if we think, well, this is necessary. I think the great attraction of Buddhism is that it acts against the pathology of the major cultures. I think many people are drawn to it because they find that this voracious appetite to satisfy it doesn't work. into your basket and work with it.

[43:33]

But I just think it's awful to run into students, young people who cannot stand silence. They have to have sound all the time. And it's really very distressing. But you have to have one. But you know, also, the finance companies are exploiting the students. We know that. That's a well-known fact. a one-year MFA in writing. But I didn't get a full scholarship there.

[44:35]

And so I was on the phone with the financial aid person. And she said, honey, if you were going to med school, I'd say, come on. But you're getting a degree in poetry. Why would you come here and get this huge debt to go be a poet? And I was kind of, at the time, really deflated by that. But I took it in. And then I ended up going somewhere where I got a full ride. Everything paid for, no debt. And I still remember that woman saying that to me. There was some truth there. You know, how wise is it to come out in your early 20s with a degree in poetry and huge debt? I've seen so many people that said, gee, you know, I really want to go to Tassajara. And I'm already not, except that I have this $200,000 debt that I have to pay off. But if you just pay off a little bit, keep it going. You can spend the rest of your life paying off the debt if you do it slowly.

[45:38]

Just slowly enough so that they don't come and get you. The interest keeps mounting up. Yes? You know, the times have changed so much. My parents have told us this. We look to our elders, to a lot of you guys, to say, you will regret it if you don't blame. And you know, it's really rough because you live one life and you kind of have to make those decisions as you go.

[46:43]

And you're torn between the parents and the peers and the wise ones, you know, and there's all this conflict that comes up. Who are you, you know, who are you depending on? Whose advice are you depending on? Whose wisdom are you depending on? my own, my parents, my ancestors, my peers, what? You know, it's difficult. It's difficult. Until you finally come to a place where you say, I remember when I came to the place where I said, I don't care about any of this, I'm just gonna do what I want. I remember that very well. I've been free ever since, yes. Yes. It means that you find your stability and you can't be moved.

[47:48]

You find your stability and you can't be turned over. That's being the boss. No matter what happens, the winds can be very strong and you can tumble with it, but you don't get lost. So you can get tossed around by all kinds of things, but you always land on your feet. That's why what we teach is stability. So anyway, I think Ross is right, you know, we have to write the book on how to have a Buddhist practice that makes sense and because in our practice there's no precedent. No one ever practiced like this before where people have families and incomes and careers and you know sophistication and education have

[49:01]

never happened before, so we have to develop it. I think the koan of the modern times is, how do we practice no gaining idea in a world that's facing us? And the other thing I want to say is, I've been thinking about what is wealth, because here we are in the wealthiest country That's where you live. You just made it out of mud and straw and whatever you made it out of. There was space. People, like people from our country, went over there.

[50:09]

Not our country, but you know, anyway. Some people from various countries went to various places and ruined people's economies so they couldn't live that way. So they had to buy houses. And meanwhile there's a movement in this country so that we can actually go and make houses out of straw. But we can't even get our basic needs met, you know, and we're supposed to be the wealthiest country in the world, and it's ridiculous. So, a corollary to the living in a society of gaining ideas directly from others would be, how do you develop the confidence to live out your true self and cooperate with the universe so that the universe provides to you Well, that happens usually in communities.

[51:13]

I don't think you can do it by yourself. And the reason So, in India, in the old days, the sadhu, and still today, would do their practice and people recognize that and they would give them something, feed them. So, it comes out of that tradition. if you're doing good work you'll be supported, whenever that may be. But then Buddhism formed into communities, the wandering aesthetic came to the community, so the communities became a vortex for support. the energy and activity of the community brought in support. So, the reason that I'm supported is because of the community.

[52:18]

No community, I have to go out and work, I mean, do something easier. Wouldn't that logically extend then to an activity in this community, in the direction of things that cohabit, and why aren't we starting the city park here? Well, yeah, you know, those are viable. That has to emerge. Something has to emerge that's workable, not just ideas. I'm facing that by going. You know, if you're scared, what are you scared of?

[53:22]

You know, well, maybe you won't have enough food. Join the other, you know, four billion people in the world, you'll be hungry. Maybe I won't have Oh. And of course, it's nice if things work out.

[54:29]

And there's a good chance that they will. But if they don't, that's the liberation of practice, to me. It's actually OK if things don't work out, as well as if things do. visiting gets his regular emails in the mail. I think the main thing is what you devote yourself to.

[55:49]

If you devote yourself to the welfare of beings and forget yourself, I think that's a good recipe because then people will recognize, will help you. If you're just doing it for yourself, I don't think you'll be supported, not these days. Is this just a selfish idea? Even though it's poverty, selfish poverty, you know. So it depends on what your attitude is, who are you doing this for and why are you doing something. Well, if you're doing something for the sake of the Dharma and then for the sake of people, to help people, I think that's one thing. But I think we have to be very careful. People are balancing a lot of things, you know, and because we've accumulated so much in our life, we live precarious lives of balancing a whole lot of things.

[56:55]

And if we let those go, they all go crashing down and then we don't feel so good. So we have to be very careful how we... I mean, it's, you know, easy talk, but difficult. You know, there's something to what you say, but we have to be careful. Yeah. I have kind of a rough spot when it comes to faith, because the majority poor people are single mothers with no children. And are we just saying they're poor and nobody's supporting them because they don't have faith and because they're dedicating their life to taking care of their children and they can't go out and work? I mean, that's... They should be supported. And they're not. No. And... But it depends on, you know, that's a pretty broad brush. There are many people, many people living in poverty and many single mothers living in poverty for one reason or another.

[58:06]

Right. So what's your suggestion? Well, that's simplistic. That's not what I mean, actually. That's simplistic. I'm not asking anybody to do that at all. That's not... So here I see women very dedicated to trying to take care of their children and keeping them safe, and needing to be home to take care of them, but also therefore not having as much time to work. I don't know, but what I'm talking about is someone who has faith in practice, someone who devotes themselves to practice.

[59:22]

And let's go of accumulation and devotes themselves to practice and to helping people. That's what I'm talking about, people who find themselves difficult position for one reason or another, that's poverty. But for the person who is purposely doing something, that's not poverty. No, poverty, well, poverty is when you need something and you don't have it. But the person who gives that up purposely They don't need it, so it's not poverty, it's purposeful living in a way that is not dependent on things. So this is called doing something, giving up as a way of life.

[60:33]

And you could say spiritual poverty, but spiritual poverty is different than ordinary poverty. Spiritual poverty is when you consciously let go and depend on the universe for support. And your work of doing that is what creates your support. And you may not. You may starve to death, was what Bob was saying. But there are tons of people who are in poverty and they need some help. That's different. It's a whole different paradigm. They don't want to give up anything. They want, they need something. They need to have their lives supported.

[61:36]

And so, that's poverty. So there's a difference between those two. Well, yeah, you can say that, but it's not the same still. Because the monk has given up the blessings of the family. If a person who had voluntarily devoted themselves in this way, was to be handed a child, they might say, I'll just take care of this child.

[62:48]

That will be my work. That's what Aquan did. The lady said, it's yours. He said, okay. He didn't have anything to lose and nothing to gain. If you have nothing to lose and nothing to gain, then it's not poverty. It's just your way of life, and you're happy. This is what Dogen's talking about, this is what Buddha talked about, it's like you let go of everything so you can be happy. I'm not saying that you should do that, but that's what he's talking about. The less we depend on purpose, the more secure we are.

[63:58]

It's time to stand up, I think, or something like that. Uh... collection.

[65:21]

So they owe the money to the hospital. I don't know exactly where I'm going with this, but it's maybe some kind of acknowledgment that we're in the Well, some people think that Zendo is uncomfortable.

[66:22]

It's just a room, you know, it's just a space. But I think we may be talking all about the same thing, but I think we're talking about two different things in a way. So, you know, poverty is poverty, but practice is practice. We have to practice with what we have. If you're a middle-class white male, don't feel guilty, just practice with that. How do you practice with that in the face of millions of people that are in poverty? How do you practice with that? Dogen is talking about something very fundamental and you can fix things, you can go around the world fixing things but as soon as you fix them they're broken again and you put out this fire

[68:11]

and then this fire starts up. And you turn around and you put out this fire, and then there's a fire over here. So you go out stamping out fires, but it doesn't help. I mean, it helps. And I don't say we should do that. We have to do the impossible thing of putting out the fires. But the fundamental thing, I think, is that the slave master thing has never stopped. The slave master thing is what society is about fundamentally. And it used to be, you know, black people in chains coming over in the boat. That's just one form of slavery. Society is enslaved to the masters of the corporate world. It was controlling everything. And people are beginning to feel it, but it's becoming more and more obvious to most people. So how do you free yourself from that?

[69:14]

I think it's a pretty important question. Right, right. Well yes, I don't think we can figure that out exactly. I think we have to find a way to practice over a long period of time. Yes, we have to write that. This is called the Living Sutra. Sutras, we think of the sutra as something written in a book a long time ago, but actually we're creating, through our practice, we're creating this sutra called, how do we do this?

[70:27]

We may be past what I have to say, and I'm not sure I'm clear enough to be very helpful in the confusion that I feel like I'm hearing, and I feel like the choice of words there's so much room for misunderstanding around issues of injustice, which is what I, the passion I hear people speaking to when we speak about poverty that immediately comes up to the way in which the world is structured because there was always a master-slave relationship of some kind. But what I'm thinking of, and it reminded me when you were talking about the is that I know many people who were caretakers, and by societal definitions, poor, but whose spiritual brightness and how they lived their lives led not to a difficult life, or a life that wasn't fraught with a lack of privilege, but a life in which they found their center in how they lived

[71:42]

The life in which I met someone was last week who her whole life worked in nursing homes and was kind and careful to everyone that she took care of. And somehow she feels cared for in the world because her spirit was so good that she feels the goodness in the world around her in return. I think that's the area of confusion. There's the attitude that we have about how we live our life and the sense of generosity and humility is what I'm using. Do I really need this? Is it taken away from someone? My grandmother was a sharecropper's daughter. She grew up very poor. Anyone who came in the house needed anything to have. And so there wasn't much to go around, but there was plenty to go around. And so I think that's what we're talking about, which doesn't make it unfair.

[72:51]

It doesn't mean we shouldn't go out and work for change so that single parents, single mothers who don't have a lot of work options can't be home with their children. Because I manifest in everyone differently, depending on who's in. But you're really, I think you're right on because everyone has a challenge, no matter who they are. Everyone in the world, is born in the world, has the same challenge. Some people are born wealthy, some people are born poor, some people are born with this and some people are born with that, and find themselves in various circumstances. So whatever circumstance you find yourself in, that's your field of practice. That's your place. And some of the poorest people, the most deprived people, are the most wonderful content in some way. Some of these poorest families are some of the wisest.

[73:54]

And it's important not to confuse that contentment with... Justice. Justice, that's right. Nothing to do with justice. That they shouldn't have better houses, more security, be free of terror in their villages, etc., etc. There's a clarity that people have that we lack because we're so busy trying to figure out how to get unravelled from the material world that we've gotten hooked on. That's right. So within their difficulty, they've emerged in some enlightened way. Well I think another piece for me is that we should be very grateful because you know even the teachings are that there's a hell world where it's not possible to practice because there's too much suffering and we haven't we're very lucky to be in the human world and we may think yes our down in the human world to begin with.

[74:59]

And the hell world isn't some imaginary place that's, you know, ten blocks away from here, probably less, you know. It's not an imaginary place. And, you know, so rather than thinking we What I do with that is I'm grateful for every moment that I can practice and for every circumstance that I can overcome. But I don't look to someone else and say, oh, if they practice, things will be better for them. And I think also the justice issue is huge. We're fortunate to have these circumstances. What can we do?

[76:01]

I think that Doga's not talking about the faith of a monk that they'll be supported as a job security. I also think, I mean, my experience with monks in Asia is that they're incredibly venerated and supportive. That's not true of nuns, for example. And there are even societies where, like if you go to Thailand, the monks are incredibly venerated and supportive, the nuns can't even take Well thank goodness we live in America, in the Bay Area, in Berkeley. That's right.

[77:19]

That's a very good point because even according to Buddha, those are the four requirements that are necessary to practice. If you don't have those four requirements, it's difficult to practice. So that basic need should be answered so that you don't have to worry about those things so much. Medicine, yeah. And as soon as we do that, we get into trouble.

[79:20]

And he talks about, if it's in a high place, deal with it in a high place. If it's a low place, deal with it in a low place. If it's this kind of green, work with this kind of green. And I was just looking at the last sentence, which seems like a pretty good recipe for cooking your life deep concern of a parent and carrying out all your activities with magnanimity. Very good. But that is, we didn't get to that part yet. But there are, you know, guidelines for how to practice as a layperson that have always

[80:31]

They don't usually include zazen, that's unique I think, but how to be generous and not give in to greed, ill will or delusion, you know, it's practicing with the same things, but in a circumstance of a layperson. So he's talking from the point of view of a monk, it filters up to how to practice as a layperson with the same qualities, only taking into consideration all the responsibilities that go with being a layperson. So we can't give up our responsibilities, but we have to practice with a magnanimous mind and a parental mind and a joyful mind. Like, that's true. So I think we do that.

[81:40]

What we want to do is what we're doing, actually. But we don't usually talk about it so much in this particular way, what we're doing, what we should be doing. And it's different for each person. We cannot end all the poverty in the world and take care of all the single mothers in the world, but we are aware of that and we do what we can. But we can fix, you know, usually people are fixing the symptoms and not the causes. always addressing the symptoms and rarely addressing the causes. What's the cause of all this poverty?

[82:43]

I mean, what's the cause of all the crime in Oakland? How come people in jail are just put out in the street with 50 bucks when they get out? How come there's no way of integrating people or using It used to be called reform school, where one is reformed and then re-habilitated or re-turned or turned around. It's just the punishment fits the crime forever. Time for us to Anyway, we didn't get to the end, but we never would get to the end.

[83:43]

No way to get to the end.

[83:46]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ