I'm going to continue my talk on Suzuki Roshi's commentary on Sekito's poem, Sandokai, which appears in Branching Streams, Flow in the Darkness. This is a Sandokai. It's the oneness of the one and the many. That's one of the titles. There are maybe 50 or 60 different ways to interpret the title, none of which are accurate. So whatever I say, it's just, you know, it's okay. The oneness of one and many. So Sekito, or Shi Tu in Chinese, wrote this poem around the 8th century in China.

[01:10]

He was a very well-known Zen master. So I'm going to read the poem. The mind of the great sage of India was handed down closely from west to east. People may discriminate the dull from the keen, but in the true way there is no ancestor of north or south. The true source is pure and stainless. The branch streams flow in the dark. Clutching at things is delusion. To recognize the truth is not always enlightenment either. The five sense gates and the five sense objects are interdependent and absolutely independent, interrelated endlessly, yet each stays in its own position. Things have various natures, various forms. There is good and bad taste, sound and feeling. In darkness, superior and inferior cannot be distinguished. In brightness, the duality of pure and impure is apparent.

[02:13]

The four elements resume their nature as a child has its mother. Fire is hot, wind blows, water wets, and earth is solid. For eyes, there is color and form. For ears, there is sound. For the nose, there is smell, and for the tongue, there is taste. Each being comes out from the root, as branches and leaves come out from the trunk. but both root and end should return to their original nature. The words we use are different, good and bad, respectful and mean. But through these words, we should understand the absolute being or source of the teaching. Within brightness, actually, there is utter darkness, but you should not meet someone just with darkness. Within darkness, there is brightness, but you should not see others only with the eyes of brightness. Darkness and brightness stand with each other like one foot forward and the other behind and walking. Everything, all beings, have their own virtue. You should know how to apply this truth.

[03:15]

Things and emptiness are like a container and its cover fitting together, like two arrows meeting head-on. When you listen to the words, you should understand the source of the teaching. Don't establish your own rules. If you don't practice in your everyday life as you walk, how can you know the way? The goal is neither far nor near. If you stick to the idea of good or bad, you will be separated from the way by high mountains or big rivers. Seekers of the truth, don't spend your time in vain." Well, that's the poem. And I've already talked about up to the point where I'm going to speak today, which are the four lines. Each of the myriad things has its merit. expressed according to function and place. Phenomena exist like box and lid joining, principle accords like arrow points meeting. It's very interesting.

[04:51]

The way Suzuki Roshi expressed it was, everything, all beings, have their own virtue. You should know how to apply this truth. Things and emptiness are like a container and its cover fitting together. So I'm going to read the first paragraph. He says, now I would like to talk about how we observe things, how we should treat things, and how we understand the value of things. And then, this is quoting the first two lines. Each of the myriad things has its merit expressed according to function and place. The myriad things include human beings, mountains, and rivers, stars, and planets. Everything has its own function, virtue, or value.

[05:54]

When we say value, usually we mean exchange value. But here, value has a wider meaning, for which we use the word co. Co does not mean function or utility in the usual sense. but instead it applies more to virtue or merit. Someone living a meritorious life or doing something for society or the economy or community, that function will have virtue for us. But when we say function, you may still wonder, function of what? So he is using these terms and throughout this talk he uses these terms merit, value, and virtue. A few days ago, in the Chronicle, George Will, the columnist, usually more value than virtue, talked about the difference between value and virtue.

[07:03]

And he was saying that in America, or in the world today, but mostly our American culture, we talk a lot about values, value and values, but we don't use the word term virtue very much. And so our way of thinking is always in terms of values and values and value. And even when we speak about virtues, we talk about them in the sense of values, what we value. So Suzuki Roshi talks a lot about the difference between virtues and values and merit. So I looked up the word virtue, actually, in the dictionary, and Plato has four cardinal virtues, prudence, fortitude, temperance, and justice.

[08:04]

added honesty, generosity, no faith, hope and charity. Faith, hope and charity. And then I added honesty, generosity and impartiality. And there are many more. But this is more in the realm of virtue, whereas value mostly speaking, and especially in the dictionary, is more like having to do with currency and exchange value. And so what Sukhiroji is talking about here is the difference between exchange value and intrinsic value or virtue. The virtue has a little different meaning in Buddhist sense. Virtue is more like your inherent worth.

[09:14]

When I was a little kid we used to say the human being is made up of 98% water and the rest is kind of chemical, vegetable, animal matter. and we're worth about 98 cents. When it's all added up, we say we're worth 98 cents. But it has nothing to do with our true intrinsic value or virtue, which is incomparable. So value is usually in the sense of comparative values. Value is one thing compared to another. And we live in the realm of comparative values and comparative worth, so we evaluate everything on the basis of how it's compared to something else.

[10:20]

But virtue in the Buddhist sense is each person or each thing's incomparable value, where it doesn't depend on anything else. for its intrinsic value or virtue. So each one of us has our own intrinsic virtue which cannot be compared to anything or anyone else. And when we say you should know yourself, you should be in touch with this value which gives you your self-confidence and gives you your sense of who you really are. Not who you are compared to somebody else, but who you are intrinsically as you are yourself. Actually, this is the purpose of practice.

[11:27]

When we say find yourself, find your true nature, is to find this intrinsic virtue which is always there. So it's not something that you add but something that you discover or uncover or reveal. He says, here I will have to use some technical terms. So he uses these technical terms which can be a little confusing but don't worry about it. For instance, if you see something and then suddenly the sound system is turned up and Suzuki Hiroshi hears his own voice real loud coming back to him and he says, he starts to laugh and he says, you hear my voice. You think you are listening to me. What you are listening to may be my voice, but actually you're listening to the function of some universal entity called electricity that covers the whole world, the whole universe.

[12:44]

This is one understanding. Another would be that you were listening to my nature as well as the nature of electricity. So when you see or listen to something, the whole universe is included. When we understand things in this way we call it the understanding of Thai, which means body, big body, big ontological body, which we call big mind or Buddha nature, which covers everything. So he took this little opportunity, this little accidental opportunity to use it as a way of expressing himself. but actually you're listening to the function of some universal entity called electricity that covers the world. So you're listening to my voice but you are also listening to the true nature of everything because this voice is an expression

[13:55]

universal nature which covers everything, and this voice is one expression of that. Your voice is another expression of that. So at the same time that we listen to someone or engage with any object or activity, true nature is there as well as the basis So we talked about function and essence. In Buddhism, this is very important. Function and essence. Function is the activity and the essence is the underlying cause or the underlying basis for whatever the function is, whatever happens. So he's using the electricity as the essence and what you hear as his voice as the function.

[15:08]

So he says Thai means body, but it is a big ontological body that includes everything. And we call the nature of that body show. Not the show in these lines of the text here, but the show that means the basic nature of everything. Then when we grasp that which is beyond words, we call that understanding ri, or truth. Ri is something beyond our idea of good and bad, long or short, right or wrong. If you've listened to the lectures before, you know he talks about ri and ji. Ri being the absolute basis of things and ji being the expression. or the function. Ri is like big mind. Ji is like small mind. Ji is like the person, and ri is like the nature, the underlying nature, true nature.

[16:21]

So in the next line, we have yo, which means utility or usage. So ko and yo may be the same thing. When he's saying ko and yo, he's meaning essence and function, just using these different terms, which have the same meaning. Ko and yo may seem the same, but here, when used as Buddhist technical terms, ko refers to the function of things, or ji, while yo refers to the function of absolute truth, or ri. In these two lines, Sekito is talking about the oneness of ko and yo. Ko and Yo apply to each occasion and to everything.

[17:27]

So when you encounter things, you should know that right there, the true teaching reveals itself. You should know that place. That on each occasion, both Ko and Yo, both function and essence are there. This is why in our daily life, we pay attention to the details of our life. because in the detail, we say the devil is in the details, or actually the true nature is in the details of our life, and this is how we practice Soto Zen. This is also one aspect of the formality of practice. Because of the formality of practice we have the opportunity to focus very closely on our activity, on the details of our activity and on the careful working out of everything that we do.

[18:36]

And this is how we experience the essence as well as the function. Mostly we are concerned with getting something done. And because we want to accomplish something in a goal-oriented way, we're focused on G. And we're not aware or conscious of re. We're not conscious of essence. But when you don't have a goal-oriented activity, when you're simply doing the activity for the sake of the activity, then the essence becomes more apparent. So society gets lost in function and in comparative values. And practice brings us back to the essence underlying the function.

[19:45]

So we don't lose our sense of essence within the function. We're always aware of true nature or Buddha nature. This is enlightened practice, of course, I'm talking about. In enlightened practice, with enlightened understanding, within our busy activity, we're always aware of the essence, the underlying essence. which is beyond comparative values. So he says, so when you encounter things, you should know that right there, the true teaching reveals itself. You should know that place. And he says, sometimes we use ko and yo together when we say koyo. We understand not only each thing just as we see it, but the background of each thing, which is ri or absolute.

[20:53]

We should know how to use things. To know how to use things is to know the teaching or the way things are functioning. To understand things means to understand the background and to understand the value of things is to understand how to use them in the right way, according to the place and the nature of each thing. I remember when we moved into Page Street, Zen Center moved to Page Street in San Francisco, and I remember Suzuki Roshi scolding people for sitting on a table or putting their feet on a chair He said, the table is for eating, the chair is for sitting. When you put your behind on the table, you're disrespecting the function of the table.

[21:55]

Even though, you know, a table you can use for anything you want, right? But the table, it has a function in its place. And you respect the table for its function. And when you respect the table for its function, you're also respecting it for its essence. And when you sit on the chair and not put your feet on the chair, you're respecting the chair for its function as well as its essence. So respect brings forth understanding of essence because respect corresponds to essence. Dogen in his Tenzo Kyokun, in his admonitions to the head cook, says things that belong in the upper shelf you should put on the upper shelf.

[22:57]

Things that belong in the lower shelf should be put on the lower shelf. You should respect each thing's position and where it belongs. When you cook the rice, it's not just rice, it's respectful rice. He says when you take a dipper of water out of the stream you should put some of it back and drink the rest. So there's a whole how to respect things and how to use things in a way that pays attention to essence as well as function. So

[24:05]

He says, to understand things means to understand the background and to understand the value of things is to understand how to use them in the right way according to the place and nature of each thing. This is to see things as it is. Usually, even though we say, I see things as it is, you don't. Things as it is is a term that Suzuki Roshi invented to mean actually to express the relative and absolute in the same sentence. And so the plural and the singular in the same sentence. So usually, even though you say, I see things as it is, you don't. You see one side of reality and not the other. You don't see the background, which is ri. You only see things in terms of G, the phenomenal side of each event, and you think each thing exists only in that way, but it is not so.

[25:15]

All things are changing and are related, one to another, and each thing has its background. There is a reason why all things are here. To see things as it is means to understand that ji and ri are one, that distinction and equality are one, and that the application of the truth and the value of things are one. So virtue is one side, value is the other side. Comparative values is the dualistic world where our activity takes place. And absolute value is the dark side, where everything has its own incomparable value at the same time. For instance, we think the universe is only for human beings.

[26:27]

Nowadays our ideas have become wider and our way of understanding things has become freer, but even so our understanding is mostly human-centered, so we don't see or appreciate the true value of things. You have many questions to ask me, but if you understand this point clearly, there's not much to ask. You really understand this point, you don't need so many questions. Why, why, why? Actually, the question of practice is not why, why, why, but how, how, how. How can I do this? How can I do this? Not why are we doing this, but how can I do this? If you have this question of how, you won't have any problem in practice that you can't deal with. But if you keep asking why, you'll have nothing but endless problems that you can't deal with.

[27:29]

It's very true that human beings are very human-centered and this is, you know, why we're ruining our environment. And reducing animal life and vegetable life without concern. But you know, a lot of people are very concerned. This is always the battle between people who have some understanding and people who don't. So education is really important. even that's hard to put forth, a lot of resistance to education. So he says, you have many questions to ask me, but if and so forth.

[28:37]

Then he says, most questions and problems are created by human-centered selfish ideas. What is birth and death? That is already a very self-centered idea. What is birth and death? That's a I had a Japanese priest one time say, if you say, I am alive, that is a very arrogant statement, presumptive statement, presumptuous statement. It means that you're not really thinking deeply enough. And it's a kind of egotistical statement. Of course, birth and death are our virtue or merit. Merit means something like what you deserve.

[29:41]

Something that comes to you because of your virtue. Merit is kind of like the result of our virtue. We say, may the virtue of this chanting or this practice extend everywhere. Through virtuous practice, there's merit. And Buddha's always giving away the merit to help others. But this is an interesting statement. Of course, birth and death are our virtue or merit. To die is our virtue and to come into this world is also our virtue. But our tendency is to think that to come into this world is our virtue, but to die, what did I do wrong? Why me? Why me? Everybody else is still alive and here I go.

[30:46]

But this is in the realm of comparative values. We see how things are going, how everything is appearing and disappearing, becoming older and older, or growing bigger and bigger. Everything exists in this way. So why should we treat ourselves in a special way? Why should we single ourselves out as being any different? This is the way everything goes. Pain is our virtue and pleasure is our virtue as well. But we tend to want one side and accept or desire one side and reject the other side. This is always the cause of our problems. This is the world of pain and suffering. And it's also the world of happiness and pleasure. But we prefer one side to the other.

[31:50]

but enlightened mind accepts both equally. We always have to pay, we say pay the piper, right? Whatever pleasure you accept or latch onto, you also have to accept the pain and suffering that comes with it. Some pleasures are, you know, don't have much, consequences, simple innocent pleasures, but whatever we do has consequences of the opposite side, because it's the world of good and bad comparative values. But if we're rooted in virtue, both sides are acceptable, are accepted equally.

[32:57]

This is called equanimity, impartiality, or egolessness, selflessness. Then he says, when we say birth and death, the birth and death of human beings. When you understand birth and death as the birth and death of everything, plants, animals, and trees, it's not a problem anymore. If it is a problem, it is a problem for everything, including us. A problem for everything is not a problem anymore. So this is the problem. This is what happens. to everything, continuously changing. And we say birth and death, but it's just our way of, our human-centered way of looking at things, to say birth and death.

[34:04]

And, of course, since we're humans, it's human to do that. So we do that, we say birth and death, I was born at such and such a time, I will die at such and such a time, he was born, she will die, and so forth. And we look at things that way, but in the bigger picture, there's just transformations. And in the bigger picture, everything is just standing still. And there's even a bigger picture than that. So we have our view and our picture, and most of which is due to our, our picture is influenced by our human-centeredness and our partiality. And we create our picture. So almost all of these questions come from a narrow understanding of things.

[35:10]

A wider, clearer understanding is necessary. You may think that talking about this kind of thing will not help you at all. For a selfish human being, it may be hard to be helped." True. Buddhism does not treat human beings as a special category, but it does. It does, but at the same time that it does, it doesn't. It is deluded and egotistical to put human beings into a special category. Yet, it is normal for human beings to think that way, not reflecting within, but seeking some truth outside themselves. When you look for the truth outside, it means the background is not big enough. You need to find some confidence within yourself through expanding your background. So the Sandokai, this poem, says here that all things have their own virtue or merit, absolute worth or incomparable worth. Then he talks about something which will surprise you.

[36:16]

He says, as human beings we have our own selfish nature. Only when we live like human beings who have a selfish human nature are we following the truth in its greater sense. Then we are taking into account our nature, which is egotistical and selfish. We have to take that into account. So we should live like human beings in this world. We should not try to live like cats and dogs, who have more freedom and are less selfish. Human beings should be put into a cage, a big invisible cage like religion or morality. Dogs and cats have no special cage. They don't need any teaching or religion, but we human beings need religion. We human beings should say, excuse me, but dogs and cats don't need to.

[37:23]

So we human beings should follow our way and dogs and cats should follow their way. This is how the truth applies to everything. We shouldn't all try to be the same. Human beings should be human beings, dogs and cats should be dogs and cats, but dogs are more like human beings. If we observe our human way and dogs and cats observe their animal ways, it looks as if humans and animals have different natures. But although our natures are different, the background is the same. Because where we live and the way we live is different, the application of the truth should be different. It is like the way we use electricity. Sometimes we use it as a light and sometimes as a loudspeaker. Human beings have their nature and animals have their nature, but even though our ways of expressing our nature are different, our natures have the same basis. This is the application of the truth. This is actually what Sekheto is talking about.

[38:29]

We should not be attached to the difference in usage because we are using the same true nature, our Buddha nature. But according to the situation, we will use Buddha nature in different ways. That is how to find the true nature within ourselves in everyday life. So I wrote myself a little note here that says, to find our true nature within the limitations of our circumstances moment by moment is called Genjo Koan. Genjo Koan is our practice as we proceed from Zazen to our daily life. which means within each situation, the limitations of each situation, we should find our true nature. And that's the koan. And it applies to every moment in every situation, to find, to realize the absolute nature of each relative situation.

[39:38]

which means to, even though we are egotistical, self-centered, and desirous, to not be caught by that. The next two lines are of the poem. Phenomena exist like box and lid joining. Principle accords like arrow points meeting. The relative, which is ji, fits the absolute, ri, like a box and its lid. Just a perfect fit. The absolute and relative accord, like two arrow points meeting. As I said before, ji means various things and events, including things you have in your mind, the things you think about. Ri is something beyond thinking. beyond our understanding or perception. Again, relative and absolute are the same thing, but we must understand them in two ways.

[40:46]

Where there is ji, there is ri, like a box and its lid. They fit together. And that I am here means that the true Buddha nature is here. At the moment, I am an expression of Buddha nature. I am not just I. It is more than I. But I am expressing the true nature of my own way. I am here means that the whole universe is here, just as where there is a kerosene lamp there is oil. So the way re accords with ji is like two arrows meeting in midair. There's an old story about this. In China in the Warring States period 430 to 221 BC, there was a famous archery master named Kisho, another very good archer, became ambitious and wanted to compete with Hiei. So he waited with his bow and arrow for Hiei to come. Seeing Kisho arrive, Hiei raised his bow and arrow.

[41:48]

He tried to hit Kisho first, but both of them were so good and quick that the arrows met in midair. Afterwards, they became like father and son. If you have a good fight with somebody, you usually often become good friends. There is some reason, for instance, that I am old. Without a reason, I would not have become old. And without a reason, I wouldn't have been a youth. For some reason, I became old, so I cannot complain. The background of my being old is the background of my being raised as a beautiful boy. Laughing. Ha ha. I am supported by the same background, and I shall always also be supported by it, even when I die. That is our understanding. So this is called faith in what? Faith in what? It's like, what supports me now will always support me.

[42:49]

Why should I be, what's the problem? The problem is that I identify with the present shape and form. But if we identify with the background or with life itself, there's no problem. But you know, kind of like this body and mind, feelings. Smells good, tastes good. But who knows, maybe something better will happen. or something worse. Whatever it is, it will be what it is, and that will be my, what I deserve, my merit. But faith means that somehow

[44:02]

everything works will work according to the way it works and if you go along with the way it works what else can you do? So he says to accept things as it is looks very difficult but it is very easy. If you don't find it easy you should think about why it is difficult Maybe, you may say, it is because of the shallow selfish understanding I have of myself. And then you may ask, why do I have a selfish understanding of things? But a selfish understanding of things is also necessary. Because we are selfish, we work hard. Without a selfish understanding, we cannot work. We always need some candy, and a selfish understanding is a kind of candy. It is not something to be rejected, but something that helps you. You should be grateful for your selfish understanding, which creates many questions.

[45:06]

They are just questions, and they don't mean so much. You can enjoy your questions and answers. You can play games with them. You needn't be so serious about it. That is the understanding of the Middle Way. It's important we say have a healthy ego. Don't try to get rid of your ego. Before you can let go of ego, so to speak, you need to have some feeling of sense of self, sense of your individuality, sense of your confidence. But you shouldn't take yourself too seriously. If you take yourself too seriously, then you're caught by your personality, by your dream. So, it's important to have the will to live, and a sense of self, and some self-interest.

[46:20]

But, if you really turn this self-interest, this ego to practice, then you don't suffer so much. We can understand the middle way as ri, or emptiness, and ji, as somethingness. Both are necessary. Because we are human beings and our destiny is to live for possibly 80 or 90 years, we must have a selfish way of life. He's using this word selfish, you know, a kind of shock value. I don't think he means really selfish, but he means sense of self. Because we have a selfish way of life, we will have difficulties that we should accept.

[47:23]

When we accept difficulties, that itself is the middle way. Without rejecting your selfish way of life, you must accept it, but don't stick to it. Just enjoy your human life as long as you live. That is the middle way. The understanding of ri and ji. When there is ri, there is ji. When there is ji, there is ri. To understand difficulty in this way is to enjoy your life without rejecting problems or suffering. I remember people would say, well, but I like to do these things. And Sukhiroji would say, it's fine as long as you like it. In other words, as long as you are willing to take the suffering that comes with whatever it is you like to do, no problem. When you get tired of the suffering, then you can start to do something else. It's hard, you can lead a horse to water, but it's hard to make them drink unless they're thirsty.

[48:26]

So when we become thirsty enough, then we start to do something, start to not take our selfish desires so seriously, and our effort is to let go. I noticed something very important that I have not emphasized so much before. Suffering is a valuable thing. I understood this today when I was discussing it with someone. Our practice should be the practice of suffering. How we suffer will be our practice. In other words, since you can't get out of it, we say the purpose of Buddhism is how to escape suffering. But the fact is, that you can't escape suffering. You can only accept it. To escape it is to accept it.

[49:31]

To run away from it is to perpetuate it. It helps a lot. I think most of you know suffering as you have pain in your legs when you sit in zazen and in everyday life you have suffering. Bishop Yamada was in Los Angeles, believe it or not, there's a bishop at for North America, Japanese bishop for North America, but American Zen students have no contact particularly with that bishop. I'll explain that some other time. But anyway, Bishop Yamada, who was the bishop at that time, led some Sashins at Zen Center. He emphasized what he called Unshu, which Hakuin Zenji had practiced for a long time. Harkawen had suffered from consumption when he was young and he conquered his illness by the practice of Unshu, which means putting emphasis on the out-breath, like mmmm.

[50:47]

And then he says, how do you say that? And some students said, groan? And then he said, no, when you suffer you say mmmm. And another student said, sigh? No, not sigh. Another student said, moan? He said, no, more like strength, like a tiger in pain. Then he said, growl? Growl, no. He said, your breathing should be like the breathing you have when you suffer. You should put more strength in your lower abdomen and take a long time exhaling. You should practice mmm silently. Otherwise, it is not unshu. When you repeat this unshu, as if you are suffering from something physically or mentally, and you direct your practice just to the suffering you have, then that can be a good practice. It does not differ from shikantaza. So he's talking about when you're sitting in zazen, and you have a lot of pain in your legs, and you start suffering. And unshu means a kind of special practice.

[51:53]

And I tell people this often, silently you go, and just put that effort into the, just right into the suffering here. And somehow it just kind of disperses things. What will you do? So it's just one breath. after the next one breath. And in this one breath, you put your whole body and mind, all of it, totally into this one breath. And then you put it into this next breath, and you just go from one breath to the next. This is called good concentration. This is where your practice really begins. And you're just living from breath to breath, totally present. within your suffering, and then it's no longer suffering.

[52:57]

He says, but when your suffering is centered in your chest and your breathing is shallow, this is agony. When you suffer completely, you should suffer from your lower abdomen. You should feel good when you do that. It is so much better than saying nothing or just lying down. Bishop Yamada had difficulty until quite recently. Now he is maybe over the cloud. We were trying to figure out what an over the cloud means, but it means either he doesn't have to worry about it anymore for one reason or another, but we are not sure what that reason is. But when he was in Los Angeles, he suffered a lot. At that time, I hadn't had much experience of illness and couldn't understand. I couldn't accept his practice of Wenshu like a sick person might. What is this practice, I thought. But I found out why he did it, and I found out that it helps a lot. Of course, he understood what suffering is.

[54:06]

No one enjoys suffering, but our human destiny is to have suffering. How we suffer is the point. We should know how to accept our human suffering, but we should not be completely caught by it. Maybe that was what Bishop Umada, that was his practice. To find the oneness of ri and ji, the oneness of joy and suffering, the oneness of the joy of enlightenment within difficulty is our practice. Bottom line. This is called the middle way. Do you understand? It's the middle way between between existence and non-existence, between delusion and reality. Where there is suffering, there is the joy of suffering or nirvana. Even in nirvana, you cannot get out of suffering. We say nirvana is the complete extinction of desires. But what this means is to have this complete understanding and to live according to it.

[55:12]

That is zazen. You are sitting upright. You are not leaning over to the side of nirvana or leaning over to the side of suffering. You are right here, sitting upright and without leaning to one side or the other. Everyone can sit up and practice zazen. Well, not everyone can sit up, more or less, you can sit up whether you're lying down or not. Suzuki Roshi, I remember saying, when I'm sitting, my feet are always on the ground. I am following Sekito's poem line by line, but actually it is necessary to read it straight through from beginning to end. That's true, but if you talk about it piece by piece, it doesn't make as much sense. Sekito is very strict in the conclusion, very strict.

[56:15]

You cannot escape from him. You cannot say anything or else you will feel his big stick. In his time, the Zen world was too noisy, so he became very angry. Shut up, is what he said. And actually, so I shouldn't talk so long. Maybe it's already been too long. Excuse me. But I remember, I read that Unshu thing in an old windmill, I said to Suzuki Yoshi, can you say something about Yamada's unshu? And he said, what's unshu? And I said, well, you know, Bishop Yamada talked about unshu, about the breath. I said, what is that? And he just ignored me. I think that was before he realized Yamada's sickness, before he had his own sickness.

[57:30]

Before he had his own sickness, he couldn't understand what Yamada was feeling. And I never had any sickness either, up until I was about 65. And so I had a hard time empathizing with other people's sickness. So I understand that. But now I understand more how people feel when they have physical problems. And I'm glad that I do, because it's helped me a lot to understand people and their suffering.

[58:04]

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