but it's just characteristics of one thing. So non-attachment, on the one hand, means when it's daytime, give up nighttime. Let go of nighttime and just be in daytime. And when it becomes daytime, just give up nighttime. This is the meaning of non-attachment. It means to be wholeheartedly in the present. Wholeheartedly, fully present, without leaving any trace. So, leaving no trace means that moment by moment you live your life completely.

[01:14]

Completely on each moment. So, as you can see, non-attachment is quite a different term than detachment. detachment is to stand back and not be involved. So, non-attachment, non... The Sixth Ancestor also says another characteristic of our practice is non... not getting involved, not being attached to ideas. Because when we become attached to ideas, we stray from our essence of mind. It doesn't mean not to think. We have to think all the time.

[02:18]

But to be attached to ideas is to stray from our essence of mind. Our ideas come from essence of mind but when we become attached to our ideas we stop there and the level of our understanding comes to a halt When I say ideas, I don't mean thinking about what we do next, but the nature of reality.

[03:21]

in order to not stray from the essence of mind, which is the practice of a Zen student or a Buddhist, is to, while completely and fully engaged in activity, to be free within that activity, or to find our space to turn around, so to speak, Freedom within the activity means that we're not attached to how something, to a result. When we do something, we always think of what the result is. Of course, Otherwise, why would we do something?

[04:51]

But at the same time, something may turn out to have a good result or a bad result. If, for instance, one is dedicated to peace, to bringing about peace in the world, we may engage in some kind of activity that we feel helps to bring about peace in the world. But if we engage in various activities which seem to fail sometimes, or not bring forth fruit, then we become discouraged. But if peace is at the core of your life, then whether your efforts fail or succeed is not so important.

[06:10]

There's no need to be attached to whether or not our efforts fail or succeed. because our whole life is just being peace. So, at the same time that we're completely involved in being peace, we're not attached to the result of peaceful activity. Otherwise, our activity is just dependent on circumstances, or our satisfaction is just dependent on circumstances. So in order to have real satisfaction, true satisfaction, we can't stray from the essence of mind.

[07:17]

True satisfaction is always being at one with essence of mind, which is also called Buddha nature, or true nature, which is not conditioned by circumstances. Various peace activists say, if you want to bring peace into the world, you should be peace. And then we learn various ways of doing peaceful activity. But true peaceful activity comes from not straying from our essence of mind. And it doesn't depend on success or failure or circumstances.

[08:20]

So whether or not peaceful activity succeeds or fails is important, but it should not affect our true peaceful source. It's like when you cut the grass, it still continues to grow. because the grass comes from the root. So in our zazen practice and in our activity, not straying from the essence of mind is the same.

[10:14]

Zazen practice and our activity are just two expressions of the one essence of mind. There's no difference. Sometimes we call it working and sometimes we call it sitting. We should be careful not to be too attached to zazen, to sitting. or too attached to working, and at the same time, when we're sitting, we're completely sitting. When we're working, we're completely working. We become... In this way, it's okay to have attachment.

[11:26]

Our life must be a life of attachment or responsibility. It's, you know, when we see people who have no sense of attachment, then we feel uneasy. Because when one has some sense of attachment, then one feels some responsibility. And when we feel that people have responsibility, then we feel a little more comfortable around them. Because when someone is responsible, feels responsible for something, then they also, you can feel some sense of responsibility between you and them. One of the problems that we have today with children is a lack of... children feel a lack of responsibility because we have no... the values that we have are being lost.

[12:50]

And when children feel a sense of responsibility, it makes you feel comfortable. It makes you feel that the world is whole again. So attachment, in that sense, is necessary. But, at the same time, if we hold on to things too much, the world doesn't flow. So attachment has these two sides. One is taking on, and the other is letting go. and knowing when to engage and knowing when to let go. Parents, at some point, parents are very attached to their children, but at some point, parents have to let go of the children, which is very painful and should be painful.

[14:01]

Painfulness is OK. Suffering is another story. So, when we don't stray from our essence of mind, even though there's painfulness, it's not suffering. This is salvation in According to Buddhism, salvation is to not stray from our essence of mind. What are we saved from? Buddha says, what we're saved from is suffering. And the round of rebirth as a suffering being. So I wanted to make clear the difference between these two terms, because this comes up often.

[15:41]

And people feel as a Buddhist, you know, you have some distance, some detachment from things, which is a misunderstanding. There are some. There is some feeling that among certain people in Buddhism, to detachment, that it's not the mainstream. So how to take something on and how to let go and how to re-establish ourself moment by moment in our activity.

[16:47]

Letting go of the last moment and just being in the present. Being in the present includes the past and it includes our idea of the future, of course. Maybe you have some questions? I find it hard to not be attached to results, and yet at the same time to give my best effort when I'm doing something, because the results seem to be the psychological impetus for doing your best. How do you deal with that consternation? There are two aspects of our activity. the aspect of accomplishment in the future, and the other is the aspect of just pure existence on each moment.

[18:04]

And both of these are taking place at the same time, but we often lose the quality of existence in our effort to accomplish something. So all of our activity is directed toward this accomplishment, and we lose, and often lose the moment of our activity right now. So, if we can appreciate all of the activity that we're doing moment by moment, as we do it, then the work is actually being done. But we get very caught up in results, and so we lose our footing in the present.

[19:09]

If you sit tzazen, you realize that there's only this present moment, And this present moment has its own satisfaction. This moment's activity must have its own satisfaction and its own completeness. So, you know, you talked about the goal of practice is to actually bring you to the present. It's a long road to here. We're all poets.

[21:09]

We're all in the flow of Heraclitian continuance, key spots. But why do we need to listen to you or to any of the traditions? I mean, the traditions can be wrong according to our own inspiration. And it also, the ideology, if everything has changed, the ideology I'm going to get to your question. Let me answer your question, okay? First, there are three things that come out of you. First one is, you don't have to listen. You know, it just sits us in. That's the true test. It sits on it.

[22:14]

Second is, don't believe anything. Find out for yourself. Third, why are you here? Listening to me. Well, sometimes I hear things that you say that seem original, original ignorance. Other times you seem to be just You know, you seem to be a clone of the condition I'm sitting in. And when you make statements like we shouldn't be attached to ideas, yet I hear these same ideas not all the time, because sometimes I hear originality and insight. And so that's why I keep coming, because I do gain some inspiration through them. And I'm into meditation, but I don't with all of the ideologies. I see these ideologies.

[23:16]

If I'm reading or thinking about Victor Stein or thinking about, I go through hundreds of ideas, you know, every month of all these ideologies. And you're presenting this, what seems to be a kindergarten. And I'm not getting it through meditation. Once in a while you come off an insight, but I think you're would you comment on the phrase work with passion say that again would you comment on the phrase work with passion Well, there's emotional passion, and then there's mental passion.

[24:25]

What do you mean? Which do you mean? Passion with... emotionally, or...? I'm trying to make an occupational choice. Well, whatever you choose, do it wholeheartedly. or do the thing you can do wholeheartedly. Yeah, do the thing you can do wholeheartedly. At one point you said something like, pain is okay or acceptable, but suffering is another story. I should have got stopped there. Oh yeah. Well, what I meant was that pain doesn't have to be suffering. Well, there are various levels of suffering. And usually our suffering comes about when we can't accept our pain.

[25:41]

So some of us have a very low threshold for accepting pain of various kinds. and you fall into suffering. And so, as I say, there are various levels of suffering. There's great suffering and then there's kind of minor suffering, you know. And there's great pain and there's kind of minor pain. The greatest pain seems to be the pain of separation. So, Sometimes it's painful to connect, but even so, the pain of connecting is not what we call suffering. Could you say something about the importance of continuity in Buddhism?

[27:13]

Well, continuity is like, in practice, very important. Because although there's some theory, as this gentleman says, The way we get our understanding is through the continuity of our practice, not so much through ideas. It's like you absorb it through your pores, so to speak. So study in Zen doesn't necessarily mean to study ideas, although ideas are important, but it means to do something over and over again.

[28:20]

Dogon says to study the Buddha way is to study the self. But the study means doing something over and over again, like until it becomes an integral part of you, like Zazen, over and over and over and over. So, continuity is very important, and probably the most important thing, even though it's not glamorous. It's important. It's kind of like the daily You know, the daily work, something that you do every day, like brushing your teeth or eating, to consider, you know, practice in that way. That's important.

[29:25]

Back to suffering. Onward. Onward to suffering. Onward to suffering. One way I've looked at suffering, or diminishing suffering, is by detaching. I think what you're saying today is maybe that another way, when you were talking about us connecting, would be almost the opposite of detaching. In the midst of suffering, you just have a big pain. Is that what you're saying? Yes. That's right. To fully experience what's happening right now. Because as soon as you try to escape, that's what causes suffering. I don't like it, is the beginning of suffering. I don't want it, is the beginning of suffering. And it's just, you know, the germ of the idea. And you're... It's very hard to stay in the middle.

[30:33]

Very hard to stay upright without leaning this way or without leaning that way. This is what Sanzen is. You sit up straight, you don't lean this way, and you don't lean that way. And there's pain on one side and pleasure on the other, but they're really one thing. And as soon as you start to fall off into, I don't like this, or I want it this way, or I'd rather have it that way, then you fall into suffering. we can accept our, whatever our circumstances are, without falling into suffering. I mean, there's minor suffering, and there's major suffering. Speaking of detachment, I'm thinking of something that's related, but perhaps not the same thing, which is not so much detaching from

[31:40]

to... you know, you say to be fully involved, but we can't be... just get involved in everything. Oh, that's right. It's the judgment and discrimination come into play. Right. You say, if I pick this up, it's going to cause... a problem. So I learned not to pick that up, and then I learned not to pick this up. So you distance yourself, or you just don't engage with certain things, but certain things you have to. But sure, leave things alone, and you won't get hurt. Is that detachment? I think that detachment is okay as detachment.

[32:48]

Yeah, you could say that's detachment. To unhook, to stand aside, be detached from something, that's okay. But to be involved with your life and the circumstances of your life, from that. Certain things you're like, oh... But... Does that make sense? You know, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just saying, this is how you not stray from the essence of mind.

[33:55]

And this is how you stray. It's hard to stay and not stray. Really hard. subject a little bit. When you started your talk you were saying something about the clouds and this big cloud coming over and then it left. Yeah, that was my poem. It was nice. So I started thinking, I thought you were going to use it as a metaphor for feelings coming and going or impermanence of things or something. So, and also in the Bodhisattva ceremony there's, we talked about, there's a phrase that says, ornamented clouds.

[34:58]

Ornamented clouds. And then there's the blue mountain and the white cloud. So there are all these clouds, and I was wondering if you could... I mean, I don't think they all mean the same thing, but... Well, they do, actually. That's what I wanted to know. Do they all mean the same thing? It's getting better to be more direct. There's a field of bright clouds and a field of ornamented clouds. But I didn't want to elaborate on my fault. Whatever it was I said, I just wanted to leave it there. Anyway, we can enjoy the rain when it rains. And then when it stops raining we can enjoy the sky. And the next time it rains we'll enjoy the rain.

[36:00]

Can you enjoy the drought? Well, you know, I didn't flush the toilet every day. And so, it was kind of neat working with it. It was wonderful to be able to work with the drought, you know. It was, you know, the challenge of conserving water and the little bit of wondering about when it was ever going to be over. Seven years, right? Wondering for seven years. and wondering if we were going to have water at Tassajara or if she'd close down during the summer. That was the problem. And I said, it'll rain again. And there were less mosquitoes and less pollens, and that was great. Yeah, that's right. So, you know, when this kind of problem comes up, it's a wonderful challenge for how to deal with it. So you can say, in that sense, I can say, yes, I enjoyed the drought.

[37:04]

Many trees died. Well, many trees died, but new trees will grow. Now it's raining again. Although many trees died, it's the nature of trees to die. Something else will happen. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but you could say it's good or you could say it's bad. Depends on what perspective you're looking at it from. So a lot of perspectives. commitment and attachment.

[38:22]

Well, I'll say it this way. It's important to be committed and it's important not to be attached. But if you're too attached to your commitment, then it becomes a compulsion. So we should be careful not to be attached to your commitment as a compulsion? Maybe you could say something about practice-grade commitment. Like what? Well, we have the practice-grade sign-up on the Volition Board, and that's coming up on May 1st. That's when we all commit ourselves to this six-week period of time to do something. Each one decides what their, everybody decides what their level of commitment is, given your responsibilities.

[39:38]

And then you say, well, I can do this much, and I can do that, and a little bit of that. And then you write that down, and that's your commitment to yourself. has a shape and you can see what it is. You're attached to it and you're free from it at the same time. If you don't get up in the morning, well, you may not feel so good. for us to say, I don't like this, I don't want this, is the beginning of suffering.

[41:07]

So, I guess what I feel is that it's hard to deal with either one. I have struggled to pain without any attachment than to desire not to experience pain and suffer. As long as you like it, it's fine. As long as you like it, it's fine.

[42:09]

As long as you'd rather have your suffering, it's fine. I'm not saying one thing is better than another, actually. I'm not saying one thing is better than another. Some people love suffering. I mean, it's a characteristic of the human race to want to suffer. You know, as long as you like it. I'm just saying, if you don't want to do that, then you have to just accept the pain that you have. But you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. It's just a matter of what you like. Or just a matter of what you want to do. Really. It really is. Yeah, did I say detach from it?

[43:53]

Well, no. Anyway, anyway, you know, everybody struggles with these things, right? And you can't escape. You really can't escape. So, what you can't escape from, you have to deal with. How are you going to deal with it? So, my answer to how are you going to deal with it is, just sip more Zazen. You know, I can only explain it up to a certain... I'm not explaining it. I'm just kind of, you know, giving little hints.

[44:54]

It looks like I'm explaining something. I'm just giving little hints. But Zazen is where you get it.

[45:02]

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