Someone, a monk comes and says to his teacher, what do you do in the immobile position of zazen, when you're sitting there without moving? And he says, I think not thinking. And then the monk says, how do you think not thinking? And the teacher says, non-thinking. Or, which he on the roof, he says, beyond thinking. Which? He, well, fushiryo and shiryo, both negation of shiryo. Shiryo is thinking. And, I think, fu, both fu and he, both negate thinking. But, in the case of fu, I think, negate verb. So, in the case of fushiryo, that is not thinking.

[01:04]

Don't think. So, it negates action. This is a verb. So, in the case of fushiryo, shiryo is a verb. And hi, I think, negates a noun. So, in that case, in the case of hishiryo, this shiryo, or thinking, is a noun. Do you understand? So, think and not thinking are kind of corresponding with each other. When you think, you cannot, you know, you are thinking. So, thinking and not thinking cannot get together. If you are not thinking, you cannot think. And if you are thinking, you cannot do not thinking. So these two are corresponding to each other, think and not thinking. And think or not thinking is that those two things get together.

[02:06]

I think, but I don't think. How can we get those two things together? And in an ordinary way of thinking, it's not possible. because it's against our way of thinking. Our way of thinking is logic, and logic doesn't like contradiction. So in our ordinary way of thinking, that means logical thinking, way of thinking, thinking or think and not thinking can't get together. But somehow in our Zazen, They are both there. You know, we cannot stop thinking. And yet, if we think, it's not our zazen. So, think and not think, or think of not thinking, is possible in our zazen, only in our zazen, by letting go of thought.

[03:11]

Even if we don't think, thought comes up. Even though thought comes up, we don't think. So thinking and not thinking are there, both there, only in our Zazen. When we stand up from Zazen and do something else, we have to grasp something, some idea. I have to think and make a choice. When we make a choice, we are following our thinking. But only in our Zazen, we sit in this posture, and breathe from our abdomen, and what we do is just let go. Just let go means just let, you know, all the thinking, or feeling, emotion, or whatever, you know, come up. We don't control them. We don't try to get rid of them. But thinking are always coming up, but we, you know, open our hands.

[04:13]

We don't think. even though we don't think thought comes up. That is awazazen. So I think only in awazazen, thinking of not thinking is possible. And what Dogen Zenji is saying is, you know, this, you know, think of not thinking, things happening inside of ourselves, in our Zazen, is basically not thinking, or hishiryo. So, for me, not thinking or non-thinking doesn't make sense or doesn't work in this case. So, I translate this as beyond thinking. That means both thinking and not thinking are taking place on the ground of beyond thinking. That means this is not a matter of I think or I don't think. According to Uchiyama Roshi's expression, that's the scenery of our life.

[05:19]

Somehow it's happening. So we don't negate anything. and we don't cling or grasp anything, but just keep, you know, open our hands. Then our, you know, natural life force, which is, you know, connected with all beings, this whole universe, is working through this body and mind. So our Zazen is not private, individual, personal action. But we, how can I say, we merge into the universal movement of life. So it's not We don't sit in the Zen based on our desire, our personal reasons. Of course, when we start to sit or start to practice or start to study Buddha's teachings, there are some individual motivations or reasons.

[06:28]

Often we have problems or difficulties, so we try to find some better way of life. That is how we start to practice. And we call that is, you know, arousing body-mind. But actually that body-mind, that kind of body-mind is, in a sense, an obstacle to really practice in accordance with Buddha's teaching, or Buddha Dharma. Because that is still, you know, our ego. You know, the desire, even we call it aspiration, you know, to make ourselves better, or to find a better way to live. That is still, you know, personal, individual desire. Even though the object of desire is enlightenment, or a better way of life, or being free from egocentric, still, you know, this idea came out of ego.

[07:33]

So somehow, we have to work with this aspiration itself. And when we really sit, we have to open our hands. Even if we cannot grasp this aspiration or motivation to sit for practice. Otherwise, our practice doesn't become personal. way to improve this person. And if we practice in that way, that is not the Buddha way, that is the past way. So, when we sit, we have to even open our hand. We shouldn't cling to our motivation to sit or to practice or to become enlightened or even to become Buddha. That is why, you know, Dogen Zenji said in Fukanza Zengi, when we sit, we should give up even the aspiration to become Buddha.

[08:46]

When we really open our hands, that means surrender. Then, Buddha nature Interpenetrating, total interpenetrating work, according to Dogen's expression, starts to work through this individual body and mind. This is my understanding of thinking of not thinking. How do you think of not thinking beyond thinking? Does it make sense? How do you talk to people who have obsessive thinking? What does obsessive mean? Repeated again and again. Addictive thinking. I think all of us are addicted to thinking. Some people feel they cannot get a thought out of their mind over and over and over.

[09:54]

So, you know, it's really difficult to, you know, open our hands. And even when we open our hands, it comes up somehow. So, as far as we struggle to open our hands, we can't open our hands. It's really difficult to explain. But somehow, what we should do in our Zazen is don't struggle with thinking. We don't care for thinking, but what we have to care is to keep an upright posture and breathing. So, Uchamara Shofun said, we do Zazen, not only Uchamara Shofun, but Dogen Zenji also said, we do Zazen with our body, not our mind. So, Zazen is not a method to calm down our mind. We don't control our mind.

[11:00]

And it's really difficult. Almost always, you know, our motivation to sit is to calm down our mind. Because we think, you know, mind creates many troubles and stress. So if we calm down or pacify our mind, you know, then we feel we get something. We have some kind of, you know, award and sitting is worth to do. But, you know, this is a famous koan between Bodhidharma and second ancestor. You know, second ancestor asked Bodhidharma, you know, my mind is busy. How can I pacify my mind? And Bodhidharma said, you know, bring your mind here. Then I would pacify it. Then the second ancestor said, I tried to find out my mind, but I cannot find it.

[12:07]

Then Bodhidharma said, I have pacified your mind. That means we cannot really grasp or control our mind. There are no such things called mind. Mind is just a flowing or stream of our consciousness. There's no way to stop it or control it. But by sitting in an upright posture and breathing through abdomen and let go of everything, that means leave everything to this posture, and breathing, and actually our life force. You know. So, Dogen Zen said in Zuimonki that as far as we try to grasp Buddha Dharma, or understand Buddha Dharma with our mind, there's no time we can get it.

[13:13]

But our Zazen should be done with our body, not mind. And Ueshiba Maroshi also often said, our dazen is done with our flesh and bone, not mind. And when we really, you know, sitting with body and mind, body, and try not to control our mind, you know, when we try to control our mind, you know, This side, which tries to control, and that side, which should be controlled, is the same thing. And, you know, that means, you know, the more we try to control, the more it starts to become a kind of a violent or powerful. So, as far as there is a kind of separation between subject and object, the mind which tries to control the mind, and the mind which should be controlled, is separate.

[14:30]

There is no way we can have our mind become pacified, become peaceful. because there are two, and we have always struggled, you know. I want to keep, you know, I want to pacify our mind. And I'm looking at my mind, looking, you know, watching my mind. And when something happens, we say, no, it's not peaceful. So, mind is watching the mind itself. and always saying, you know, you are not a good boy. You are always, you know, doing something bad. Then, you know, this conflict or struggle has really no end. Or when, you know, our mind, when we try to our mind, our mind becomes more, you know, how can I say,

[15:37]

kind of a resistance like a baby or a kid. Then we try to, you know, three or five years old kid try to be peaceful or quiet. My son is now five years old. Then we tell him to be quiet. He becomes much noisier. He doesn't want to be controlled. And our mind is pretty much the same. We are so childish. We feel, you know, we are being forced to be quiet. We try to say something. No, I don't. So, how can I say? The only way, you know, The best way to pacify your mind is to put the mind in the meadow, not in a small hut.

[16:43]

So, our sitting is putting our mind in the middle, the boundless middle. Then the mind can run around peacefully or joyfully. What is the boundary? Pardon? What are the boundaries of the middle? We create a boundary when we think, you know, this is good behavior or bad behavior. Our mind shouldn't be in this way or that way. So, in our Zazen, I think only in our Zazen, we can take out those boundaries. In our daily life, you know, it's dangerous. take out the boundaries. We need boundaries in our daily lives. That means we have to think what is good to behave, what is not good to behave, what we should do and what we should not do.

[18:01]

So we have to think in our daily lives. But in our dazen, we don't need to think what we should be and what we should not be. Of course, Zazen means to sit in an upright posture and make no noise. So, in that sense, there are some boundaries. Because, you know, we practice together with other people. But within our mind, there is no boundary in our Zazen, I think. Okay? Should we create a boundary here? We'll take tea or coffee for you. Tea break. In the room next door. And then we'll do a little bell to get you back.

[19:07]

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I'm really happy to be here again and to have a chance to study Dogen Zenji's Genjo Koan with all of you. Since Catherine asked me to talk something about Genjo Koan, I have been thinking how I can present it.

[20:10]

There are so many, several different ways. You know, Dogen Zenji wrote this chapter of Shobo Genzo when he was 33 years old. One year before his death, it seems he made a decision to put this Genjo Koan in the very first chapter of the whole Shobo Genzo. There are different discussions about that, but it seems so. So, this is one of the most important chapters or writings of Dogen Zenji. And this is one of the most well-known writings of Dogen Zenji, both in Japan and also in this country.

[21:14]

So, there are many commentaries and translations in English. So, one of the interesting ways to study Genjo-Koan is to compare those commentaries and translations. But I don't think we have enough time to do so. If we try to do so, only discuss or study about the title Genjo-Koan takes one day, I think. So, now I'm thinking to talk about my own understanding of Genjo-Koan. You know, first I read Genjo-Koan and commentary. I think by reading Yamada Roshi, when I was a high school student, I think I was 16 or 17 years old, and I couldn't understand almost at all.

[22:27]

I think the one sentence that to study or to practice the Buddha way is to study the Self. This, you know, one single sentence was very impressive for me. But I couldn't really understand at all the rest of Genjokoan. And I studied Buddhism and Logan's teaching at Komazawa University. Komazawa is a Sōtō University. and also I was ordained as Uchiyama Roshi's disciple when I was 22 years old. Since then, you know, I have been studying Genjo Kohan and also practicing Zazen according to Dogen Zen's teaching in Genjo Kohan.

[23:29]

And so I studied at Genjo-Koan at the university after I first read Genjo-Koan when I was a high school student. And I have been trying to deepen my understanding of Genjo-Koan. I wanted to translate Uchiyama Roshi's teisho, or commentary on Genjo Koan. In order to translate, I needed to really have a clear understanding. You know, I cannot translate what I don't understand. So, I tried to really and deeply understand Genjo Koan. So, I tried to read as many commentaries as possible. The first commentary on Genjo-Koan was written by Dogen Zenji's direct disciple, whose name was Senne.

[24:44]

And his disciple, Kyogo, together wrote a commentary. And that commentary was called Gosho. And this is still, even today, I think this commentary has the most authority. And I studied Gosho and there are many other commentaries made by Soto Zen masters in since 17th century. After Gosho, almost three or four hundred years, no one made commentary on Shobo Genzo. But after 17th century, that means after the Tokugawa period, Many Soto Zen masters made commentaries on Shobo Genzo.

[25:48]

And Genjo-Koan was the first chapter, so there are so many commentaries on Genjo-Koan by many different teachers. in modern times, after, you know, in this century, since Genjo-Koan was one of the most well-known writings of Dogen, so there are so many commentaries and books on Genjo-Koan. Not only Zen teachers, but also, you know, philosophers, Japanese philosophers, and even Nobel Prize winner poet made a commentary on Genjo-Koan. So, there are so many books, and yet, to me, for me, Gosho, the first, oldest commentary by Dogen's direct disciples, Senne and Kyogo, and my teachers, Uchiyama, Kosho, Roshi's commentary on Genjo-Kohan is, how can I say, a guideline.

[27:01]

Because my practice is based on their teachings, So, my understanding of Dogen Zenji's teaching is also based on those teachings. And, I think two years ago, we studied Genjo Koan Buddhist study at MZMC, Minnesota Zen Meditation Center. Each year in January and February, for about eight weeks, we have a Buddhist study. And two years ago, we studied Genjo Koan. And I gave a lecture. It has two hours. And I gave lectures for one hour. And some other teachers, like Katagiri Roshi's disciples, talked another half to have discussion and talk their own understanding.

[28:20]

And I tried to explain the original meaning in Japanese. And at that time, we had another study group beside the Buddhist study, with those people who taught at the Buddhist study. The members of the group were mainly Katagiroshi's disciples. I made the first draft of my own translation of Genjo Koan, and I explained the original meaning. We had an original Japanese text and my first draft of my English translation and we tried to collect as many English translations as possible and we compared and we tried to make our own translation.

[29:31]

And this translation we have now is a result of that work. And after that, I have been working on translation of Uchiyama Roshi's commentary. This is Uchiyama Roshi's commentary on Genjo Kōhan, published in Japan. and I made a first draft of translation of this book. So, you know, I have been studying Genjo Koan and practicing Zazen based on Dogen's teaching of Genjo Koan. So, I have a... how can I say... certain understanding, my own understanding.

[30:34]

And today I'd like to talk about my understanding of Genjo Kohan, because I don't have... I think we don't have enough time to talk on, you know, Senrei's or Uchiyama Roshi's commentary. But my understanding is, of course, based on Uchiyama Roshi's and Sen'e's commentary. So, I don't think it's different. But I try to use my own language. First, the title, Genjo Genjo Kōan. I translate this as actualization of reality. Actualization is translation for Genjo and reality is for Koan.

[31:38]

But I'm not sure if this translation can convey the true meaning, the deep meaning of Genjo Koan. Actually, it's really a short term, but it has I try to explain what Genjo-Koan means in my understanding. Gen means to appear. To appear. And also to be present. Or as a noun, present moment, this present moment, gen. Or it could also mean actual, or real, or true. Not true, but actual. Or real. And jo means to become.

[32:42]

And ko means to be public. And An, An is a kind of difficult word, because there are two Chinese characters for ko-an. Ko-an is a very famous word in Zen, but there are two Chinese characters for ko-an, for An. Maybe I should show those two. We have a... Okay. Those two. This part is the same.

[33:59]

This means to be peaceful. And also, this also means to place something on some place, somewhere. So, this part is the same thing, same letter. And this side, this part means hand. hand. And this part means wood. Wood. Or tree. These are two different Chinese characters, but both pronounce an. So, ko-an, we can use either of the Chinese characters for ko-an. And usually, we use this one, ang with tree.

[35:02]

But the Chinese character Dogenzenji used is the first one, this one, with hand. And those two, since the pronunciation is the same, those two can be used alternatively. Either is OK. Neither of them are mistaken. And yet, the meaning of these two kanjis are different. An with hand means to press. So, you know, to press, like a massage. in Japanese is amma. That means to, you know, place hand and push it to make our body pacified. So, that means to treat.

[36:09]

And the second kanji, the original meaning of the second kanji, which is tree, means a desk. to which we put something on. And also a document. You know, we put a document on the desk, and we put paper on the desk and write something. So this an means a desk or a document. And ko-an was originally used as a is not a Buddhist term or a Zen term. This is originally used in a government office as a government or public, how can I say, document on which the laws or regulations are written.

[37:12]

And in China, laws or regulations were issued by Emperor. And once laws or regulations or rules were issued with the name of Emperor, it cannot be changed. It has absolute authority. No one can complain about it. So that means something which we cannot change. That is, Zen practitioners use this word as something we cannot change. That means absolute truth. And the master's saying or the question and answer or some kind of story which shows the absolute or ultimate truth or reality is called koa. Something, you know, shows us the ultimate truth or reality.

[38:17]

And especially in the Rinzai tradition, this word koan is used as a kind of a question. given to the student from teachers. So, students have to study, learn, study, and penetrate into the meaning of the absolute reality or truth shown, expressed through koans by ancient Zen masters. That is the usage or meaning of koan in Rinzai tradition. Not only Rinzai, but, you know, in Chinese Soto also use this koan in that way, in that meaning.

[39:24]

So it's a kind of, you know, examples we have to study and to penetrate. But Dogen Zenji used this word, koan, in a kind of different way. It's not a question we have to study with, or struggle, or wrestle with. But in the case of koan, in the case of Dogen Zenji's word usage, koan should be always together with Genjo. And as I said, Gen means to appear or to be present, present moment. And Jo means to become. So, appearing or actualizing or manifesting or becoming at this present moment.

[40:32]

That means things happening in the present moment, in front of our eyes. Not only in front of our eyes, but also inside of ourselves. Things going on, happening, going on within ourselves and outside of ourselves. Our life is movement. It's like a stream of water. There's no... Our life, both our body and mind and things outside of ourselves are not fixed beings, existences. But everything is changing because it's alive. So everything is in the process. And there's no beginning and no end. And we are part of that process of moving and changing.

[41:39]

And this Genjo is Koan, according to Dogen Zenji. So this, you know, reality going on at this moment, moment by moment, inside and outside of ourselves, some kind of statement recorded in certain Zen literature. But koan is this reality in which we are living, self. And so this koan, or genjo, things happening right now, right here, is absolute or ultimate reality. There is no such reality or truth beyond or behind this reality we are actually living. That is one meaning of Genjo Koan. So Genjo Koan means Genjo is Koan. Genjo is the ultimate reality.

[42:46]

There is no reality beyond or behind what we are really experiencing at this moment. You know, we often or usually think, you know, what we see, what we experience is very limited. Our mind is conditioned and limited. Our body is also limited. And in this phenomenal world, everything is always changing. That means we cannot rely on anything. So we want to find something we can rely on. Something which doesn't change. And, you know, we feel there is some sort of hidden truth or reality or something we can rely on behind or beyond our reach. That's how, you know, I think often how we start to, you know, seek the way, truth or reality or enlightenment.

[43:53]

But I think Dogen, not only Dogen, but the Mahayana Buddhism shows us that there is no such reality or truth we can rely on which doesn't change and which exists beyond this phenomenal world of impermanence and egotism. So this reality in which we are living actually right now, right here, our ultimate reality. We cannot find anything beyond or behind this phenomenal world in which, you know, we have so many problems. And we cannot rely on anything. And we cannot grasp anything as reality or truth. So we have to open our hands. And to see really this movement, changing, or vigorous function of life, self, is reality.

[45:04]

That is koan. That is absolute reality, ultimate reality. We shouldn't try to find anything beyond this phenomenal world. And another meaning of koan is, as I said, a question. This Genjo is a question, because it's always changing. If we rely on this Genjo or reality, which is always changing, grasp and this is reality, then that's a mistake. Already we make the reality as a kind of a concept. So, things are always changing. Reality is always changing. So we have to always inquire, what is this? So this koan is also a question.

[46:07]

Genjo is a question. This reality is questioning us, and we have to find the answer. There's no final answer, because things are always changing inside and outside of ourselves. And yet, moment by moment, we have to answer to the question from the reality. Reality is always questioning, who are you? What are you doing? And we have to answer through our actions. There's no way to escape from this question, from genjou. If we try to escape or try to ignore it, that is one way of answering it. You already answered it. That's the way we live. We ignore the question. We try not to see the reality and cling to some kind of idea.

[47:11]

That is one answer. To live within this reality. There is no way to escape from this question, from the reality. So, I think Genjo-Koan means Genjo, the reality which is always, you know, becoming, and always present, is absolute reality. And this reality is not something fixed, but this is a question. to us. So we have to try to find the answer and express our answer, our understanding, you know, by our practice or actions or our understanding. And that means through using our own language and also you can, you know,

[48:15]

use anything we can do. But that is, all activity is a kind of our answer towards the question from the reality. And our practice, or our life, is a process to deepen our experience and broaden our view and and settle down into this real reality. I think that is the meaning of the title, Genjo Koan, to me. And the first three sentences in this Genjo Koan is the most famous one. And there are many discussions These three sentences are mean.

[49:21]

My understanding is a kind of a result of my inquiring into Buddhist teachings, various teachings in Buddhism. and also my teacher's teachings, Dogen Zenji's teachings, and also my own process of studying Buddha Dharma and practice of Zazen. Let me read these three sentences. The first one is, When all dharmas are the Buddha Dharma, there is delusion and realization. life and death, Buddhas and living beings. Second, when all dharmas are not fixed self, there is no delusion and no realization, no Buddhas and no living beings, no birth and no perishing.

[50:30]

Since the Buddha way, by nature, goes beyond the dichotomy of abundance and deficiency, there is arising and perishing, delusion and realization, living beings and Buddhas. In the first sentence, he says, you know, there is delusion and realization, practice, life and death, and Buddhas and living beings. And in the second sentence, he said, there is no delusion and no realization. And no Buddhas and no living beings. And no birth and no perishing. Those three pairs are the same thing. And in the first sentence, he affirmed it. There are those things. And in the second sentence, he said, there are such things.

[51:32]

And this makes us confused. And in the third sentence, he again said, there are those three pairs of things. Delusion, enlightenment, Buddha and living beings, and life and death, or arising and perishing. You know, this is a kind of koan. I got the meaning of those three sentences. Why do you use life and death in the first sentence, and the life and imperishment in the second? Because Dogen Zen uses different words. In the first sentence, he said, shou ji, life and death. And in the second sentence, he said, shou naku metsu na, shou and metsu, shou is to arise.

[52:37]

Metsu is perish to perish or extinction. Same word in the Heart Sutra. And in the third sentence, he also used sho and metsu. And so, in the case of human beings, we say life and death. But in the case of, you know, how can I say, beings which have no life, we say, you know, show and merge, or arising and perishing, or appearing and disappearing. Same thing. Somehow things come up and stay for a while and go away. This shows or expresses the reality of impermanence. Things are always coming up and stay for a while, changing, and disappear. This is the reality of impermanence. And we often, not often, but almost always think, you know, birth is something we like, something positive, and death or perishing is something negative, we don't like.

[53:59]

We like birth, we don't like death. you know, something we like, something we don't like, or something desirable, and something not desirable. And delusion and realization are the same. We don't like delusion, and we like realization or supporting. And Buddhas are something desirable. We want to be a Buddha. And human beings are deluded. So we don't like to be human beings or sentient beings. So those are the kind of three representative of the dichotomies. Good, bad, right, wrong, like, dislike, positive, negative, those things. And in the first sentence he says, there is, there are, those dichotomies.

[55:01]

good things and bad things, or positive things and negative things. But there is a distinction. And we have to make a choice. And we have to make an effort to become better. To, you know, avoid something not desirable. and try to gain something desirable. That is our way of life. In our common way of life, this distinction is based upon our desire. To be poor is terrible, so we want to be rich. And in order to be rich, we have to work hard. So there is a reality, and the way I want to be, and there is a, you know, path from reality to the kind of a dream.

[56:05]

So, there is a starting point and a goal, and in order to reach the goal, we have to, you know, do something, work hard, and that is our usual way of life. And even in the Buddha Dharma, You know, there is deluded human beings and enlightened Buddha, or delusion and enlightenment, samsara, nirvana. And life and death, something we like and something we don't like. So we have to make effort to practice. You know, become free from selfish desire. and to become Buddha and be compassionate with other beings and to have wisdom to see the reality. So, you know, there is a reality which is not so good. We feel something lacking.

[57:08]

And we have a kind of a goal that is desirable to reach. And there is a practice in order to reach to that goal. You know, that is, in a sense, that is Buddha's teaching. We cannot say this is, you know, mistaken. You know, this is what Buddha taught. You know, for example, Four Noble Truths. You know, our life is full of suffering. And cause of suffering is our desires based on our ignorance. And he said he thought there is a way of life which is free from our desire and ignorance. So that means the way we can be free from suffering, or cease of suffering.

[58:14]

That is called Nirvana. And the fourth truth is there is a path. from suffering, or samsara, to nirvana. So, first of all, we have to study those four noble truths as a Buddhist student. We are suffering because of delusion and desires, and it's possible to live in nirvana without suffering. From this shore to the other shore, there is a path. That is the Eightfold Noble Path. That is Buddha's teaching. So, when all buddhas, all dharmas are the Buddha dharma, when we are really Buddha's students, there is delusion, that is our reality. And there is realization, that means seeing the reality,

[59:17]

with wisdom or prajna. And there is a practice which leads us from suffering to nirvana, or samsara to nirvana. And there are life and death, of course, and Buddhas and living beings. So, you know, there are those things. study and accept Buddha's teachings. Second sentence, when all dharmas are not fixed selves, there is no delusion and no realization, no Buddhas and no living beings, no birth and no perishing. I think these sentences are also familiar with us through the Heart Sutra.

[60:23]

I mean, Buddha taught the Four Noble Truths, but in the Heart Sutra it says there is no suffering, no delusion, no cause of suffering, no cease of suffering, and no path which leads from suffering to cease of suffering. You know, no suffering, that's the word in our translation. No suffering, no desire, or delusion, no origination, no cessation, and no path. So, on the sure face, you know, it's negative Buddha's teaching. And we should really understand why the Heart Sutra, not only the Heart Sutra, but Mahayana Buddhism put, you know, no or mu before those, you know, Four Noble Truths, that is Buddha's teachings.

[61:30]

You know, why we have to say no to Buddha's teachings? It's a really important point. You know, we, almost every day we chant Heart Sutra, but, you know, If we think seriously, this is really a problem, I think. Why the Heart Sutra says there is no Four Noble Truths? If we negate Four Noble Truths, then we have to say we are not Buddhists in our ordinary or common logic. If we say we don't believe in Buddha's teaching, we don't accept what the Buddha taught, that means we are not Buddha's students, that means we are not Buddhists. But Mahayana Buddhists said, you know, there is no suffering, no origination, no secession, and no path, no form of truth.

[62:32]

And they said that is true Buddha's teaching. You know, it's really kind of a contradiction. And we don't really understand why. It's really difficult to understand on the basis of common logical or discriminating mind. But we have to really clearly understand why Mahayana Buddhists put no in each of vulnerable truths. And I gave lectures on the Heart Sutra at MGMC, and it's on the newsletter of MGMC. I don't think today I have time to explain why, you know, the Heart Sutra or Mahayana Buddhism put no in front of Four Noble Truths. I think the second sentence means what the Heart Sutra says, or what Mahayana Buddhists say about the form of truth.

[63:50]

Briefly speaking, that is,

[63:53]

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