I vow to taste the truth from the Tathagata's words. It is with great gratitude and respect that I am introducing Sohaku Okumura-sensei to us this evening. He is a sotosan priest, a dharma successor to Ucchiyama Doshi, Many of you who come regularly have heard me talk about Ujjana Rinpoche's opening the hand of thought and other texts. Shohaku Okamura Sensei has devoted his life to the practice of Dogen Zenji's Zazen. He spent five years in Massachusetts in the 70s. practicing at the Pioneer Valley Zen Do.

[01:03]

And the last three years, he was a head teacher for the Minneapolis Zen Medication Center. And in between those two times, he worked on a number of translations of Dogen's writings, including Dogen Zen, Shikantaza, worked on opening the hand of thought, Pure Standards for the Zen Community, and Homeless Kodo. You have another text at the publisher now, I believe. Well, Bendoa and Zuimonki. Zuimonki. When he accepted our invitation, His intention was to begin a new Zen community, San-Chin community, somewhere in the Midwest, devoted to the practice of Dogen's way, his writings.

[02:09]

And in the last few days, his life has taken a different turn, and his new commitment is to be the head of the community, Zen center community in Los Angeles to begin with, which would be a kind of bridge between Japan and American Zen practitioners, monks. Maybe you can tell us something more about that later. So you've made it about your commitment to do that, which was not his original expectation. I have an enormous appreciation for his teaching, for his translations, for his practice, and for the way of sensei lives his life. It's a great inspiration to me. And I want to thank you for coming and being with us this evening.

[03:13]

Thank you very much. Good evening, everybody. This is the first time for me to visit Karmel and practice with all of you. I'm really grateful to have a chance to share practice and Dogen Zenji teaching with you this evening. I'm going to talk about my future later after my talk. This evening I'd like to talk on Zazen, based on one of the chapters of Shobo Genzo, titled Zazen Shin. And my translation of Dazen Shin... Oh, that's better.

[04:38]

Thank you. My translation of Dazen Shin is in the last page of this handout. Zazen Shin was originally a poem written by a Chinese Zen master whose name was Wang Shi Shougaku. He lived in the 12th century Song China. And Dogen Zenji went to China about 80 years after his death. I mean, Wanshi Zenji's death. That was in the 20th or 30th century. And Wang Shi was one of the greatest Soto Zen masters in China at that time.

[05:47]

So Dogen Zenji's teaching was greatly influenced by this Master Wang Shi Shogaku. When Dogen Zenji wrote about his practice of Zazen, he often quoted this person, Wanshi Shogaku. And here in this chapter of Shobo Genzo, His main theme is Zazen Shin. So this whole chapter is, in a sense, a commentary on one's Zazen Shin. He made comment on his Zazen Shin, once Zazen Shin, and he made his own, and Dogen made his own verse titled Zazen Shin, same title.

[06:53]

My original plan was talking on Wang Shi's Zazen Shin tonight, this evening, and Dogen Zenji's Zazen Shin tomorrow at Santa Cruz. But before, probably, I changed my mind. My mind is always changing, I'm sorry. But I'm going to talk, before start to talk on those two Dazen Shin, two verses or poems of Dazen Shin, I'd like to talk about Dogen. wrote or said in the whole chapter of Zazen Shin, why he wrote this chapter of Zazen Shin, then the meaning of Wanshi's and Dogen Zenji's Zazen Shin become more clearer. And in order to talk about the dimension as a whole, I'd like to talk or introduce a kind of a short comment.

[08:11]

on this chapter of Zazen Shin and the Praising of Earth, written by Menzang. Menzang was one of the most important Zen masters, Soto Zen master in Edo period, that is between 17th to 18th century. And this person, Menzan, lived in the 18th century. And he was a brilliant Zen master and also a great scholar. He wrote a commentary on almost all chapters of Shobo Genzo. I read his comment, his very short comment on Zazen Shin and his verse to praise this chapter of Zazen Shin.

[09:20]

I think you know what zazen means. That is what we did, you know, this evening. That is zazen. And shin means acupuncture needle. That means to heal, you know, sickness. So zazen shin means acupuncture needle of zazen. This could be interpreted in two ways. One is zazen is acupuncture needle. Zazen is a way to heal some kind of sickness. And then fatigue sickness, we have to take care. That is one way. of understanding this title Zazen Shin. Another meaning of Zazen Shin or acupuncture need of Zazen is that is actual meaning in this chapter of Shobo Genzo.

[10:37]

That means there was a sickness caused by Zazen. And this poem by Wang Shi and also Dogen Zenji is an acupuncture needle to heal from that sickness caused by Zazen. And what Menzan wrote about this Zazen Shin is as follows. The Zen is a common name. The Zen is a common name. The Zen, that means sitting, and Zen is meditation. So sitting meditation, the practice of sitting meditation. The Zen is a common name of practice by both sages and ordinary human beings. That means we are ordinary human beings. And bodhisattvas and buddhas practice zazen.

[11:41]

So zazen is not only for deluded human beings in order to make us into enlightened sages or great bodhisattvas or buddhas. But we practice zazen and bodhisattvas, great bodhisattvas practice zazen and buddhas also practice zazen. So practice is the same. We are not Buddhas, we are not so great, and yet we are bodhisattvas. If we have body-mind, we allow bodhicitta or body-mind. Body means awakening. So once we allow this body-mind, we are bodhisattvas. And yet we are very beginners. We are not so great, great bodhisattvas like Avalokiteshvara or Manjushri. But anyway, we are bodhisattvas, but we are also ordinary, deluded human beings.

[12:43]

And we practice zazen, and great bodhisattvas practice zazen, and also Buddhas practice zazen. So, you know, we are different. But zazen is the same zazen. Buddhas' zazen and great bodhisattvas' zazen and our zazen is the same. That is a basic teaching or idea of Dogen Zenji Zazen. So Zazen is not only for us derided people in order to make us enlightened bodhisattvas. But whether we are devoted or enlightened, whether we are ordinary human beings or Buddhas, all practice, you know, Zazen. So Zazen is common practice for all Buddhists. And Shin, or acupuncture needle, is an instrument,

[13:50]

To cure or heal sickness, as I said, actually in the ancient times in China, they used bamboo to make acupuncture needle. So it couldn't be so thin. So the Chinese character for shin or needle has a bamboo character. And now, as you know, they use a metal needle. Anyway, so needle is an instrument or tool to heal sickness. And shin here, or needle here, is used to cure or heal the sickness of Zen. there is the sickness of Zen. And I'm going to talk then what is the sickness of Zen according to Dogen.

[14:58]

Actually, he mentioned the sickness of Zen in this chapter. So first we have to understand what is the sickness of Zen and how we can become healthy, become recovered from that sickness. I hope you are not in the sickness, you are healthy, but sometimes we feel we are sick by jazen. And this sickness is, he said, I mean, Menzan said, this sickness is inveterate and obstinate, very deep and difficult to heal. I'll talk about the sickness, why it's so deep and difficult to heal.

[15:59]

And when we realize dropping of body and mind, or shin, jin, datsu, raku, dropping of body and mind, the sickness of inside and outside is removed. So when we really practice dropping off body and mind, that is Dogen Zenji's expression about our Zazen, we really sit in this posture in Zazen, then the sickness will be removed. And this is called vigorous and wholesome great wisdom. So the Zen, true the Zen, real the Zen, is an acupuncture needle to treat the sickness of ourselves and also caused by the Zen.

[17:13]

That is what Menzen said. And I'll introduce what is the sickness of Zen. According to Dogen, he wrote, he mentioned two kinds of sickness in Zen, in da-zen-shin. It said, in the very beginning of this chapter, Dazhen Xing, he quote the famous koan about think of not thinking. How do you think of not thinking beyond thinking? Dogen Zenji always quote this koan about thinking of not thinking. And how do you think of not thinking beyond thinking? This is a basic koan about our Zazen for Indogen's teaching.

[18:21]

And he made comment on this koan in order to really show us true meaning of Zazen practice. And after that, he mentioned about Zen sickness. at the time of Dogen. He said, the first sickness is, nevertheless these days some careless stupid people say, this is Dogen's way of saying, he's not so polite, practice Dazen and Don't concern with anything in your mind. You know, practice the Zen and don't concern with anything in your mind.

[19:22]

His expression is kyokin buji. Kyokin actually means chest or this part of our body. That means heart or mind. In Japan, we say mind is here. But I think in America, in this country, mind is here. Right after, maybe one year later, we moved to Minneapolis. My daughter was five years old. And one year later, we talk about kokoro, or mind. When I said, mind is here, my daughter said, mind is here. I was surprised. He became so quickly, so, you know, quickly he became American. But in Japan, mind is here. Anyway, so that means, and buji means no matter, not a matter, nothing in a problem, no problem, take it easy.

[20:25]

You know, that is, you know, some people think, you know, Dazen is a method to reduce stress. And it can be used in that way, actually, you know, sitting in a quiet place and sitting and calm down, you know, our mind. You know, it's one of the functions. become free from a lot of stress in our busy, noisy daily lives. So some people think that is the Zen, or that is the purpose of the Zen. And this is the tranquil stage of enlightenment. So just don't care about anything in our daily life and just calm down and sit quiet, quiet and peaceful place. That is, you know, tranquil stage of enlightenment.

[21:30]

He said, according to Dogen Zenji, this is, you know, first kind of sickness of Zen. He says, this view is beneath even the views of Hinayana practitioners. It is inferior to the teaching of human and heavenly beings. Those who hold this view cannot be called the student of the Buddha Dharma. In recent Great Song China, there are many of such practitioners. It is really sad that the way of the ancestors falls into ruin." So Dogen's criticism is really severe against this kind of attitude towards the Zen. I think because this is a kind of escape from reality.

[22:35]

And this escape is based on the idea of separation, duality. In our daily lives, we live based on our desires. that somehow three poisonous minds, greed, anger, and ignorance is working here. And according to Buddha's teaching, ignorance is based on greed and anger. Three poisonous minds means greed, anger, anger or hatred. and ignorance. Those are called three poisonous minds that cause sickness, mental sickness or spiritual sickness.

[23:38]

And greed and anger or hatred is based on ignorance. And ignorance is about, you know, ignorance of reality of our life. That means impermanence and egolessness. We are, not only we, but everything, including ourselves, our body and mind, are really impermanent. That means always changing. There is no fixed self or ego. The definition of ego or self, or not self but ego, because self is sometimes or often used in a positive sense. So ego or in Sanskrit, atma. What the Buddha taught was there's no such things called atma. Anatman is Buddha's teaching. This means, you know, our life consists of five skandhas.

[24:46]

First one is form, or rupa, that means in case of our life, that is our body. And other four skandhas are the function of our mind. And only those five scandals exist, but there's nothing else. And there's no ego there. So there's nothing called ego exists. That is Buddha's teaching. And the definition of ego is something which is only one. and which is permanent, which never change, and which is the owner of this body and operate or control this body and mind. In Japanese, jo itsu shu sai. So we feel our body is always changing. Since we are born, you know, our physical body, you know, is always changing.

[25:53]

First, you know, grow, grow, you know, quickly, and then stop growing and keep that condition for a while, and we can shrink and disappear. And our mind is always, also always changing. The way I thought in my 20 years and the way I think in my 40 years is completely different. So things are always changing. Both our body and mind are changing. And we cannot say there is something fixed within our body or mind. It's just a condition or a collection of cause and conditions. So it's always changing, like a waterfall. and yet somehow we think there's something which doesn't change. I was I, you know, when I was born, you know, 48 years ago, and I am I, still I am I, and I'll be I in 10 years later if I'm alive.

[27:04]

So I assume there's something which doesn't change. And we think that is true I. through me, through something. You know, things always changing cannot be relied because it's always changing. So we cannot rely on our body and mind. So we try to find something we can rely on, something which doesn't change. And that is, we sometimes call it self-identity. And that is ego. And what Buddha taught is that such things don't exist. Only body and mind, five skandhas, exist as a conditioned way. That is our life, always changing. That is reality of our life. And yet we feel there is something which doesn't change and which operates, which owns this body and mind, operates and operates this body and mind.

[28:14]

We call this ego and we cling to this ego. And we want to make this ego important, powerful, and successful, and stronger than others. So we start to compete with others. Or we compete even with ourselves. You know, who I want to be and who I am is different often. So we try to compete within ourselves. And that is a basic illusion according to Buddha. And from this basic illusion or ignorance, in order to protect and strengthen this ego, You know, when we encounter something we like or something we think valuable or something which makes us happy, we try to get it and make it my position.

[29:25]

That is greed. And when we encounter something we don't like, something which doesn't help us, something which is useless, valueless, and meaningless, then we try to get rid of them, you know, from my territory. That is hatred. And yet, you know, they come. No matter how hard we try to escape from what we don't like, you know, they come. So we become angry. So anger and hatred, I think is one thing, two names of one thing, and greed are caused by ignorance. When we encounter something, we try to get it or try to push them away. This makes our life or this world of ourselves sansara.

[30:34]

Sometimes we are successful, we get something we like. and something we are not successful, you know, things we don't like are, you know, coming and stay with us. They like us. So we feel, you know, miserable. We feel like we are in the hell. That cause this, you know, three positive mind makes our life samsara, and we transmigrate. Sometimes we feel happy. Sometimes we feel terrible or miserable. And sometimes we have to, you know, fight against something like Asura. That causes, you know, samsara. And when we practice something like Zen or Buddhism, we want to escape from samsara. we feel, you know, this life is not good.

[31:38]

So we need to find some better way of life. So we try to stop, you know, running after something we want or escaping from something we don't want. That's how, you know, we start to practice. I think actually, you know, many of us started to practice in this way. That is a more, you know, peaceful way of life. how we can find more. peaceful way of life or stable way of life. So we try to escape from samsara. We want to, you know, become free from three poisonous minds and practice that maybe it's some, you know, right way to calm us down. So we try to sit and sometimes it works. especially in the beginning.

[32:41]

But when you continue to practice one month, two months, or one year, two years, you will find we are not so changed, so different, because we are still looking for something. so we become kind of disappointed and quit practice. So our practice in that way, if we practice in that way, this practice of Dazen is still a part of samsara. We are looking for something that satisfies us, something that pacifies our mind, something that makes us tranquilized. So our Dazen becomes tranquilizer. In that sense, our dusting can be a drug even, and cause sickness. That is, I think, one kind of sickness, according to Dogen, that just calms down our mind, and that is enlightenment.

[33:51]

And our mind doesn't calm down so easily. Actually, never, almost never calm down. Because, you know, as far as we are alive, you know, things, you know, happening. And those things are not always favorable to us. So, as far as we are looking for something, you know, we are in samsara. So this kind of attitude toward practice actually doesn't work. And that attitude is based on very dualistic, you know, way of thinking, samsara and nirvana. And I don't like samsara, so I want to reach nirvana. And this attitude cause, you know, even samsara become nirvana. I mean, opposite, nirvana become samsara. That is the first sickness in our practice.

[34:57]

And the second kind of sickness, according to Dogen Zenji, is there is another kind of people insisting that the practice of Zazen is important for beginners. It is not necessarily the practice for Buddhas and ancestors. Walking is Zen. Sitting is Zen. Therefore, whether speaking or being silent, whether acting, standing still, or whenever, the body of True Self is always at ease. do not be concerned with the present practice of the Zen. Many of the descendants of Rinzai hold this sort of view.

[36:02]

They say so because they have not correctly received the true life of the Buddha Dharma. That is the inner mind. Fat is not beginner's mind. What do you mean when you say beginner's? The Suzuki Roshi's expression, the beginner's mind, comes from this chapter of Zazen Shin. So according to Dogen Zenji, the second kind of sickness is a kind of, as he said, the Zen is important for beginners. That means if you are a deluded person,

[37:07]

But if you practice, you know, certain amount of time, and you become enlightened, so-called, you know, kensho experience or certain, some special experience of enlightenment, by practicing dazen or sitting meditation, then you don't need to sit practice tavan anymore. They say, Once you cross over the river and reach the other shore, you don't need a raft anymore. You don't need a boat. So for those people, zazen is a boat or raft as a means to cross the river from this shore of samsara to the other shore of nirvana.

[38:12]

This idea, according to Dogen Zenji, is also based on dualistic idea of samsara and nirvana. And he said, you know, many of the descendants of Rinzai hold this sort of view. So this criticism from Dogen is toward many big number of descendants of Rinzai or Rinzai practitioners in China at the time of Dogen. And I don't think in the authentic Rinzai practice this is, they don't say in that way. They said enlightenment or Kensho experience is not the final thing. But that is, for them in Rinzai, that is the beginning of real practice.

[39:21]

and we are studying. So this is not an opinion or idea of true Rinzai. At the time of Dogen, not only I don't think it's only time of Dogen in the 30th century, but even today I think there are many, I don't know how many, there are some people who think in that way, I think. as a kind of a common idea of practice of zazen or Zen practice. Zazen is a method to have certain special experience of enlightenment. And after, once you have this enlightenment experience, you don't need to practice anything. Whatever you do, as Dogen said, Walking is Zen, sitting is Zen.

[40:26]

Therefore, whether speaking or being silent, whether acting, standing still, or whenever, the body is always at ease. So, after you have this experience of enlightenment, you can do anything, and whatever you do is enlightenment. I think this is really a mistaken view, at least according to Dogen. He continues his kind of criticism, not a criticism, but his idea of practice of Dazen. He said, you must know that for true study of the way, you definitely have to cultivate the way through practicing the Zen without being concerned whether you are a beginner or an experienced practitioner.

[41:50]

actually we are always beginners. So there's no time we can stop practicing zazen. And this is really important or essential point of Dogen Zenji Zazen. That is, you know, zazen, our practice and enlightenment are one. There are not two different things. You know, commonly in a common way of thinking, we think practice is a method or a means to attain enlightenment. So gaining enlightenment is goal and practice is method. But that is still, you know, dualistic, according to Dogen. What he said is, practice is enlightenment. There is no enlightenment without practice.

[42:53]

Practice itself is enlightenment. So when you stop practice, there is no enlightenment. In our practice, practice means our action. actualize or manifest enlightenment. So practice and enlightenment should be one thing. And I think this idea of practice and enlightenment are one, I think, is not Dogen Zenji's personal idea. But I think it came from Shakyamuni Buddha's practice and teaching. I mean, when Buddha was enlightened and became Buddha, awakened one, he sat under the Bodhi tree.

[44:03]

And according to the story, in the sutra, he hesitated to start to teach. But somehow he made his mind to start to teach. And he went to I think all of you know those Eightfold Noble Paths. But those are basic practice for all, you know, Buddha's students. And yet according to the sutras, Buddha taught eightfold noble path twice in two different meanings. First, he said he found the middle path or middle way.

[45:07]

That means this Middle Path is free from two extreme ways of life. One is the way of self-indulgence, the kind of life he spent when he was a prince at a palace. And another extreme way of life is self-torment. That is, you know, ascetic practice he really experienced. So he found the middle path, you know, free from those two ways of life, self-indulgence and self-permanence. And the way to live based on this middle path is Eightfold Noble Path. That is one way Buddha taught the practice.

[46:11]

And the second way, I think, as you know, is part of Four Noble Truths. You know, Four Noble Truths are we are suffering, all people are suffering, and the cause of suffering or pain is desire or ignorance. And there's a way, it's possible to become free from suffering, that is nirvana. And the way to cease suffering, or the way to lead us to nirvana is Eightfold Noble Path. So, within the Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Noble Path is a kind of a method from, you know, condition of suffering and condition of cease of suffering. So, this is a kind of a method.

[47:13]

And yet, you know, in the case of Eightfold Noble Path as a middle way or middle path, this is not a method. Actually, for Buddha himself, Eightfold Noble Path is not a method because he didn't practice Eightfold Noble Path before he became Buddha. But he started to practice Eightfold Noble Path or he found Eightfold Noble Path from his enlightenment. So for him, you know, this practice of Eightfold Noble Path is not a method to become enlightened. But this is just a practice of Middle Path. Whether you are enlightened or not, you should practice this way. So Buddha, you know, practiced Eightfold Noble Path until his death. He started to practice this after he became Buddha.

[48:18]

But for people who are in a condition of suffering or a condition of sickness, this Eightfold Noble Path as a middle path becomes a kind of an acupuncture needle. or the way to heal that sickness. And yet if this practice is just a treatment to sick people become healthy, then after the person, after we become healthy, what we do? You know, we don't need to do anymore. You know, we don't continue, you know, treatment when we become healthy. But in the case of Buddha's teaching, after we become healthy, what we do is eightfold noble path. So we just continue practice. So whether, in whatever condition, whether we are deluded,

[49:26]

and egocentric, and so we are in samsara and suffering, we have to practice Eightfold Noble Path as a healing process. And after we are healed, we still continue to practice Eightfold Noble Path. If we think in that way, that means important thing is just one path. Whether we are sick or whether we are healthy, no, we have to practice as a middle way or most healthy, wholesome way of life. which is free from too extreme self-indulgence and self-torment, most vivid, rigorous way of life. Just, you know, express our life force in a most positive way.

[50:34]

So our practice, I think, our practice of the Zen is the same. Our sitting practice is a practice of middle path or middle way. Whether we are deluded or enlightened, that doesn't matter. We just practice in this way. And this practice of zazen as a middle path can be an acupuncture needle when we are sick. So whether we are sick or not, we just keep practicing the same practice. So, you know, this kind of idea, you know, we need to practice until we become enlightened. And after we become enlightened, you don't need to practice zazen anymore. You are free, you are healthy, so you can do whatever you want. It's really, I think, a different idea from Buddha's teachings.

[51:47]

So his dazen, his dazen is the dazen practice, practice of middle path, which is free from self-indulgence and self-torment. Just be natural or ordinary, nothing special. So in this case, you know, the way he, Dogen, talk or write is kind of very unusual. That is, he doesn't write or speak as a kind of an observer. But he, not only Dogen, but almost all the masters, you know, speak from inside of the way as a person who is already practicing, already in the path. So that means if we see or think of practice or Buddha's teaching, you know, we can say, you know, there are people in suffering.

[53:08]

And there are people who are free already, you know, being freed from suffering, that is Buddhas, and those are derided human beings. And we don't think, you know, we are one of them. But when we really talk about our practice, we have to say or speak from where we are. We cannot place ourselves out of the way or out of the world and see things objectively. But Dogen is always talking from where he was, where he is. So when we read Dogen's writings, we have to always understand or read his writings as a person who is already in the way, already inside of this world.

[54:10]

That means we are already living this life. That means we are already conditioned. And yet we have aspiration or body-mind to practice Buddha's way, to follow Buddha's teachings. And so we have to understand what Dogen is teaching as a person who is really practicing. Otherwise, what Dogen is saying doesn't make any sense, I think. He continued, the essential point in doing so is that there is practice Buddha. which does not seek to become a Buddha." This is a typical Dogen's writing. Since practiced Buddha is not becoming Buddha, the koa manifests itself in practice.

[55:15]

I think it doesn't make so much sense to so many people. Here, Dogen then used, you know, practice and Buddha, or practice, as a name of Buddha. The Japanese expression is Jōbutsu. Jō means practice, and butsu is Buddha. Usually we read this as we practice Buddha's way, or we practice Buddha, or we actualize Buddha. But he said, he called our practice, this sitting practice, is practice Buddha, Jōbutsu. This practice is Buddha. So this practice is not a method to become Buddha. But this practice is Buddha, or a Buddha, which name is practice. So this practice Buddha does not seek to become a Buddha.

[56:17]

So in our Zazen, when we sit, we don't seek to become Buddha, because this practice is itself already Buddha. Since practice Buddha is not becoming Buddha, so practice Buddha is not becoming Buddha. It's not a method to become Buddha. The koan manifests itself in practice. The koan manifests itself is a translation of genjo koan. This is what I'm going to talk on Saturday. So I'm going to explain this expression genjo koan on Saturday at the workshop. So I don't have time to talk on genjo koan, but basically Or, briefly speaking, genjoukowa means reality of our life right now, right here.

[57:19]

Reality of life right now, right here is nirvana, actually is samsara. We are conditioned people. We are conditioned human beings. We have karma from the past. This means we are limited. And yet within this practice, this sitting practice, you know, sit in this upright posture and breathe through our nose, quietly, deeply, and smoothly, and letting go of thought, this dazen is itself practice Buddha. And this is a manifestation of koan. Koan means reality of our lives right now, right here, this present moment. And this is where we can find nirvana, we can find peacefulness.

[58:24]

So samsara and nirvana are really one thing. If we cannot find peacefulness or nirvana within samsara, within our conditioned self, we will break. there's nowhere and no time we can reach nirvana. Only this time, this moment. And to really awaken to this moment, moment by moment, and be mindful. To be mindful means to be 100% right now, right here. We are almost always somewhere else. Our body is sitting here, But our mind is maybe in the past, or in the future, or somewhere else. But to be mindful means to be right now, right here, 100%. And then what we are doing actually, right now, right here, is not a step to the future.

[59:30]

It's not a result. from the past. But this present moment, what we are doing within this present moment is just present moment. And of course, within this present moment, you know, past is included, and future is also included. So this present moment is really penetrated into three times. That means past, present, and future. That is present moment as our life. And to be really awakened to this present moment, right now, right here, and stay, completely stay at this moment and, you know, put our whole energy into what we are doing.

[60:35]

That is the way, you know, we can find nirvana within samsara. And we continue to this way, you know, endlessly. This moment, our practice at this moment, whether we are sitting or doing something else, is the perfect moment. There is nothing lacking, nothing we have to chase after. But right now, right here, we do what we should do, or what we take care of things, we just do. And this action, this practice, bring about, you know, next stage. That's all. So in the next stage, that next moment, you know, that is present moment at the next moment.

[61:37]

So we just face this moment. You know, this moment-by-moment practice allows us to awake to this moment, moment-by-moment. And that's the way we can find really peaceful and beyond dualistic attitude, just this moment. And yet there are different elements or scenarios or conditions, so we have to think, actually. We have to use our thinking. So our practice is not the way we eliminate our thinking. Our enlightenment is not simply negate our thinking. But, you know, thinking is also a part of the function of our life at present moment.

[62:45]

We often think the purpose of our practice is to eliminate our thinking. No thought is enlightenment. It's a really simple way. Thinking causes us deluded. So if we take out thinking from our life, then we become enlightened. But our life is not so simple. If we stop thinking, we cannot make any decisions. And without making any decision, we cannot do anything. If we try to do that, try to eliminate our thinking, then this is another thinking. So it's really impossible to live as a human being, to live without thinking, to eliminate thinking. And if we think to eliminate thinking or the stage of no thought is better condition, again it's a dualistic way of thinking.

[63:53]

So somehow, you know, we have to think. And yet if we are completely or simply being pulled by our thinking, since thinking is always influenced by our egocentricity, our way of thinking is somehow distorted. So if we're simply being pulled by our thinking, then our life becomes distorted, the whole of our life becomes distorted. So somehow we have to find the middle path again. And I think the Zen practice of letting go of thought is the middle path. You know, we don't kill our thought. We just let any kind of thought, not only thinking, but thought or feeling, emotions or daydreaming or whatever, you know, when we sit facing the wall, there's no object, but still, you know, many things come up within our mind.

[65:06]

That is came out of our karma. Even though there's no object, If something comes up and it becomes the object of our mind, we interact with our illusion. And that is what we often do in our darshan. But whenever we are aware of that, we are playing with thinking or emotion of whatever coming up, we just let go and come back to sitting upright posture and breathing and let go. We just keep this endlessly. This is the way we don't negate or simply take off our thinking. And yet we are not being pulled, completely being pulled by our thinking. So thinking or thought is there, but we don't think. It's really, you know, strange things to say, but I think if you practice and you have experience, some experience, you understand what I mean.

[66:16]

I think I often use the analogy of, you know, driving. Driving. Actually, Uchimura Shofu used the analogy of driving, and I think the thing of thought is like, you know, that they call gear is neutral. Then the engine is still moving, and yet the car doesn't move, you know. Even when we sit on the cushion, our stomach is digesting what we ate, and our heart is beating, and each and every part of our body is functioning. And so there's no reason, actually, only our brain stops functioning. So as far as it's functioning, you know, this is also Jamal Roshi's expression, secret thinking. So thinking thought is same as, you know, stomach juice from our stomach.

[67:25]

Somehow, you know, it's secret. It come out, it's spring, welling up. So, you know, our practice is not a method or effort to stop functioning of our brain, but, you know, keep it functioning. And that we should see that is just a mental construction, just, you know, come up of our karma. In the Buddhist philosophical terminology, the deepest layer of our mind is called alaya, alaya consciousness. And alaya means storehouse. And everything we experienced in the past is stored in this deepest layer of our mind.

[68:32]

And when we encounter certain condition or situation, something comes up from the storehouse and makes a certain action. And when we are sitting, we have no object. still, you know, our mind is functioning. So something come up, pop up from storehouse consciousness. And often we play with this and this become object. But as far as we are doing, you know, this kind of things, you know, we are playing with something, you know, outside of ourselves or we become separate. Our life is, you know, cut into two pieces. One is object, you know. As far as we are living or practicing in that way, you know, there's no way we can really become peaceful, become one piece as my life, as myself.

[69:44]

So, you know, our zazen is really a manifestation of koan, or actualization of absolute reality, where, you know, nothing is affirmed and nothing is negated, just as they are, just things as they are. So thought is there, it's not negated, and yet we don't affirm it, we don't grasp them. I think that is a way, you know, we don't negate our thinking, our thought, our karma, and yet we are free from our thought or karma. It's really a kind of a narrow path. And yet the way we practice as a, I think, or I believe, as a Buddha teaching of middle path, Well, what time shall I stop?

[70:50]

Maybe this is a good time to stop talking on the Zen Shin and open to discussion. Yeah, if you have some questions. Well, I'm sorry I didn't have time to talk on the Zen Shin actually. This often happens to me. Yeah, tomorrow I'm going to talk on the attention. I try. So if you have any question or comment or whatever you want to say, please. Yes, I have a question. Please. Practice the Venn as a eternal path or practice of the Venn as a part of eternal path, like meditation. As part of a noble truth? It's a noble task.

[71:54]

Okay, please. Go ahead. Go for it. What's your question? Yeah, which one? My question is, does practice, then, is a part of a noble path, or practice doesn't give... practice of the eight noble path. You mean part of our practice is the middle path? Or does it include the whole eight noble path? Does the practice include the whole eight noble path or just a part of light meditation? Oh, like just one of the Eightfold Noble Truths. I mean, Eightfold Noble Truths. I think in the case of early Buddhism,

[73:13]

I think meditation or dhyana or samadhi is part of eight fourth noble births. One of them we have. Those eight are shoken, right view, shoken, right thinking, shoken, shoshi, right speech, shogo, right action, right livelihood, and right effort, and right meditation, and right wisdom. Those eight. Did I say eight? Okay, so meditation is seventh. And usually, our understanding of I think early Buddhism, meditation is one of them. We have kind of three basic studies in Buddhism, that is, Thera, or precept, meditation, and wisdom.

[74:29]

And often those are understood as seerah or precept is a guideline to our daily lives. So we have to, you know, spend our daily lives in certain ways according to Buddha's guidance. And that makes us or enables us to practice, you know, right meditation. and our daily lives being according to, based on precept and meditation, and enable us to obtain or acquire wisdom. So there's a kind of steps. In the case of Mahayana and also especially Dogen's teaching, zazen is not one of eight four noble paths or six parameters.

[75:39]

Meditation or samadhi is also one of six parameters. But according to Dogen, This zazen is not a part of eightfold neural path or six parameters, but zazen itself is a source of all those practices, source or foundation of all those practices. Actually, you know, Buddha's enlightenment and all of Buddha's teaching came out of Buddha's zazen under the Bodhi tree. And our practice is based on Buddha's zazen, under the Bodhi tree. That is the source of all of Buddha's teachings. So, you know, that is Dogen Zen's basic idea about our Zazen. Our Zazen is not practice of our Zazen, it's not human activity, but it's Buddha's practice.

[76:45]

That is what Dogen said. And, of course, you know, in our daily lives, you know, sitting in the Zendo is part of our life. But as a spiritual life, you know, all our activity should be based on our practice of zazen. So in that sense, zazen can make everything. And not only zazen, but when we practice, you know, any one of them, it's, you know, includes sitting practice or zazen practice. So actually, those eight practice and or six parameters are really one thing. Well, is that the answer?

[77:46]

Another question? Do you work differently with the priest or layman? You teach differently to householders, lay people, than the way you teach to ordained people. Do you emphasize teaching differently? Actually, Koshinsan was ordained two weeks ago, and he is my first, you know, priest-disciple. So actually I never had, you know, priest-disciple. But... No. He practiced with me, but he's not my disciple.

[78:52]

I'm not sure whether he thinks I'm a teacher or not, but I don't think he's my disciple. He's a friend of mine. And I hope both, you know, priest and day practitioner, anyone of us, anyone, is a friend, not kind of, you know, like a doctor and client. I don't like such kind of relationship. So I hope, you know, I can be a friend of all people, and all people are friend of mine. I think that is the original idea of teacher and student in Buddhism. In Chinese or Japanese we call it Zen Chishiki. Zen Chishiki means good friends. And there are three kinds of good friends.

[79:55]

One is teacher, another is co-practitioner or member of the Sangha, and a person who supports our practice. So they are all friends. But somehow in Japanese tradition, you know, student become like a, how can I say, a servant. I don't like such an idea. Or I think in this country, it seems, I'm not sure yet, but it seems a student, teacher and student are like a doctor and client. I don't like this idea neither. I really want to be an equal friend. Of course, someone, you know, kind of, you know, how can I say? I often talk about first teaching from my teacher after my ordination.

[80:56]

I was ordained as a priest when I was 22. That was 1970, so 27 years ago. The day after my ordination, I had a chance to talk with my teacher, and what he said is, I cannot take care of you. I mean, my father was at the ordination ceremony and he asked me to take care of my son. And that was his answer, you know, I cannot take care of you. You have to practice for your own. That means, you know, I cannot rely on him. I think this is a real relationship of teacher and student. That means he also said he never faced to his students. but he's always facing Buddha and walking toward Buddha. And if student want to go, you know, walk the same path, we follow, you know, his way.

[82:02]

And whether the student follow or not, he doesn't matter. If the person want, you know, he want to be a kind of a predecessor, the person who is walking ahead, And yet he never said he is a right teacher, so you should follow me. But as a part of his practice, he gave me many advice. Like when I first started to practice Adantaisi with him, he asked me to study English. And I didn't want to study English, but somehow I didn't say no. I couldn't say no. So I started to study English. And when he retired, he said, why don't you go to America? And since I studied English, I couldn't say no. So I came to America.

[83:06]

So when I went back to Japan from Massachusetts, he asked me, or he encouraged me. He never ordered, but he encouraged me to work on translation. So somehow I did. And once he gave me advice, and he asked me to make a decision by myself. And once I started to do something, he never asked me to do this way or that way. He really, you know, leave us alone. When I was in Massachusetts, when I was 26 years old, so I was still, you know, very premature, but he didn't say anything what I should do. But what he said is just sit, be there quietly for 10 years. That's all. And he was practicing for Hidom.

[84:10]

I think so. You know, Sawaki Roshi was, you know, homeless. He was always traveling. So Uchamurashi didn't live with him. But Sawaki Roshi only came back for Sesshin. So only during Sesshin Uchamurashi practiced with Sawaki Roshi. So... This is a kind of Sakiroshi style. And Sakiroshi called it Hanashigai. What is Hanashigai? When you raise cows or cattle during summer, just put them in the mountain. And in the fall, they become big and come back. So teacher doesn't take care of them. He has no difference between a practitioner and a priest. But I think in the case of a priest or a monk or a disciple, I think there are some different functions.

[85:21]

Monks or priests have a responsibility to the Dharma. So I think there's some difference. And I think as a teacher, I have some responsibility to preach disciples, and different from, you know, lay practitioners or lay students. But it's not a matter of, you know, hierarchy, but it's kind of different sort of, you know, way or different path, I think. So, the lay practitioners have responsibility to... Their own lives at home and at work. And home and work, I think, is the main place of practice. And as much as, you know, time and energy allow, you know, people come to Zen-do and sit or do other kind of practice.

[86:32]

So, and I think for priests or monks, the main responsibility is to keep the temples or Zen centers or place for practice, you know, going on. So I think there's kind of a different responsibility. But it's different, but not, you know, not a matter of, you know, high or low. Okay? Please? Could you talk a little bit about grief and anger and how to handle that in your life in the right way? you know, not running away from it, not trying to polarize yourself, but accept it in a healthy way, in the right way. Menzen, the person who wrote the comments on the Denshin, wrote a short writing on certain practice,

[87:43]

titled Jijuyo Zanmai. And that is part of my translation book, Dogen Zen. And in that writing he said, you know, our life functions as three poisonous minds, greed, anger, and ignorance. And when those three minds work in kind of a wrong way, our life becomes three bad realms of samsara. That means hell, hungry ghosts, and animals. And those three poisonous minds function in a good way. Its cause brings about the three good realms of samsara. That means ashram, or fighting spirit, and human beings, and heavenly beings. And that is still in samsara.

[88:47]

That means sometimes we are good person, sometimes we are not so good person. Sometimes we are in a favorable condition, sometimes we are not. But within samsara, within those six realms, we are really based on those three minds, greed, anger, and ignorance. And our practice, is not, as I said, not to kill those three poisonous minds. But according to menzan, when we allow the body-mind and become bodhisattva and try to follow Buddha's teaching, you know, those three poisonous minds don't disappear, but they function in a different way. And the way those three minds function as a Buddha within the way or in our practice.

[89:50]

Menzen said, three, what's the word in English, Sanjujokai, threefold pure precept. When we receive reordination, we receive 16 precepts. First group is three refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. Second category is called Sanju Jokai, or threefold pure precepts. and ten major precepts. And Mendon said, three poisonous minds, greed, anger, and ignorance, works as three pure precepts. And three pure precepts are doing everything good or wholesome and refraining from doing unwholesome.

[90:54]

and embracing all living beings. And we have to be greedy to practice good. And we have used our anger to refrain from unwholesome or bad things. And we use ignorance or ignorance function as embracing all living beings. That means no distinction or discrimination. it's become really foolish, in a sense. So, you know, we don't kill three poisonous minds in our practice, but those minds function or work in different ways.

[91:39]

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