In the last classes, I've been trying to encourage trusting everything to the breathing process. I've been trying to encourage wholehearted breathing. I brought up a kind of a poem or a statement by the 52nd Ancestor of the Buddha, in this Zen lineage. He said,

[01:14]

Trust everything to breathing in and breathing out, and leap into the treasury of light. And tonight I will offer you another story about breathing. But before I do, I wanted to tell you that as different generations of babies appear, one gets a chance to refresh one's children's songs. So here's one that's been refreshed some.

[02:20]

The Buddha's breathing in and out, in and out, in and out. The Buddha's breathing in and out all day long. The Bodhisattvas leap and jump, leap and jump, leap and jump. The Bodhisattvas leap and jump all through the light. So here's the story. This story is about the 27th Ancestor in this Zen lineage. When I say this, I mean the one that comes down to us right now here.

[03:27]

So I just told you the story about the 52nd, who taught, wholeheartedly, with your total life, breathe in and breathe out, and thus leap into the realm of light. Now, the 27th Ancestor was invited by a king. The 27th Ancestor lived in India. The 52nd Ancestor lived in Japan. The 27th Ancestor, living in India, was invited by a king of East India for a vegetarian luncheon. The king said, why don't you recite scriptures?

[04:42]

Often when people would invite Buddhist monks and give them lunch, lunch was their main meal in India. They didn't eat in the afternoon, so they ate a big lunch. They could also eat other things before lunch, but this is the luncheon served by a king. And oftentimes when they would receive, what do they call it, they sang for their lunch. They would recite, maybe with a beautiful singing voice, they would recite Buddhist scriptures, and then their patron would feed one or more of the monks. In this case, the Great Ancestor didn't sing the sutras. So the king said, why don't you recite scriptures? And the Ancestor said, when breathing in, I do not dwell inwardly.

[06:00]

When breathing out, I do not dwell outwardly. I continuously, always recite this scripture, hundreds, thousands, millions of scrolls. I've recited this story, I've recited this scripture, these words, many times, not a million. So I'm wondering today, did he mean literally that all day long,

[07:01]

all throughout the town, he was breathing in and breathing out? Without dwelling in breathing in and breathing out, that he was doing that scripture all day long? Did he mean it literally? Maybe so. Maybe he was breathing in and breathing out, like everybody, but breathing in wholeheartedly and breathing out wholeheartedly. And in this wholehearted breathing in and in this wholehearted breathing out, there was no dwelling, inwardly or outwardly. There was no dwelling in inhale or exhale.

[08:05]

And that he did this practice all the time. And if the king asks him why he doesn't chant the scriptures, he answers the king. He speaks to the king. But maybe while he speaks to the king, he continues breathing out, breathing in. While he talks to the king, maybe he continues to not dwell while he's talking to the king. And not dwell while he is gratefully receiving his lunch. I came over early today because I didn't know what the traffic would be like.

[09:11]

I wanted to be able to come, so I came early and the traffic was not too thick. So I arrived quite early. And so I spent quite a bit of time in one of the parks in Berkeley, in the shade of a tree, breathing in and breathing out. I gave myself to the practice of breathing in and breathing out, not dwelling in anything. And watching people walk their dogs, play many games,

[10:15]

drive their cars. I watched the world go by as I attempted to breathe wholeheartedly in and out without dwelling in body and mind. And even though I wasn't dwelling in body, even though I was trying not to dwell in body and mind, my body seemed to be functioning, my mind seemed to be functioning, and the question could even arise, is there anything else I have to do in this life? Besides not dwell in body and mind. Can all my actions come from this wholehearted breathing?

[11:24]

Can all my life actions come from not dwelling inwardly, not dwelling outwardly? Someone said, I'd like to hear more about leaping. Tonight I'm talking about leaping. Talking about leaping into the perfection of wisdom from a breathing body and mind. Leaping into perfect wisdom from wholehearted breathing. This story is the third example from a book of Zen stories called the Book of Serenity. And after this story is cited,

[12:26]

there's a poem celebrating this story of the king and the ancestor. And before the story, there's a poem kind of warming the reader up. To the story. Before I bring up these poems... Any questions? Yes? The word wholehearted? What's the emotion?

[13:47]

Devotion? Yeah, I think wholehearted... If you're doing something wholeheartedly, I would think you'd be devoted to that activity. I'm taken over. Excuse me. You said, sometimes you feel that you're sitting wholeheartedly, but it's natural and it's like you're taken over. So, trust everything to breathing. You could also say, surrender to the breathing.

[14:51]

Let yourself be taken over by the breathing. Don't be like... Learn the situation where there isn't you and the breathing. Where there's just breathing has moved in and that's it. All there is, is breathing. There is a kind of devotion there. Then it's natural. It's not like you're doing it. It's natural and also the breathing kind of takes over. Those would be, to me, resonate with wholehearted. Did you say, but don't dwell? Actually, you can say don't dwell, but in the wholeheartedness, there is no dwelling. There's not like you dwelling in your body anymore,

[15:56]

or you dwelling in the breath. When the breathing is wholehearted, there is no dwelling. So, when he says, when breathing in, I do not dwell, he could have said, when breathing in, I breathe in wholeheartedly. Therefore, I do not dwell. When I breathe out, I breathe out wholeheartedly. Therefore, I do not dwell. When we do things halfheartedly, then there's we are doing them. When we do them wholeheartedly, there's either just us and nothing more, or there's the activity and nothing more. There's the action, but nobody's doing it,

[16:57]

or there's somebody and there's no action. That's when there's wholeheartedness. Yes? It's really great that following your breath is chosen, because you have to breathe in. It's just letting go of my subconsciousness that allows me to be in the moment completely, but this is around me. That's been watching me. You said something lets you be in the moment completely. What is it that lets you be in the moment completely? Oh, I see. So if you breathe wholeheartedly, you drop the me that's breathing. And then what happens to the moment? Then you're just the breathing, right? When you drop the person who's breathing,

[18:01]

there's just breathing. I think you made a slip there and you said, then I'm just breathing. You didn't? You said they're just breathing? Yes. When the breathing is wholeheartedly engaged, there's just breathing. Or, there's just wholehearted engagement. So Dogen says, the 52nd ancestor, no, the 51st ancestor, the teacher of the 52nd ancestor says, when you see sights and hear sounds, fully engaging body and mind, it's not like the images reflected in the mirror. It's not like the moon reflected in the water. When one side is illuminated, the other side is dark.

[19:07]

When you see sights and hear sounds, or when you are aware of breathing in, or aware of breathing out, if you fully engage body and mind, it's not like the image in the mirror. It's just the mirror or the image. Or it's just the moon, or it's just the reflection. There's no duality. I'd like to do the poem now. A cloud rhino, or you could say, a rhino cloud. A cloud rhino, a cloud rhinoceros, or you could say a rhinoceros cloud. Do you know what a rhinoceros cloud is? It's a cloud that looks like a rhinoceros.

[20:18]

Have you ever seen one of those? I myself have never seen one. I've seen gorilla clouds, I've seen girl clouds, I've seen a lot of baby clouds, I've seen Buddha clouds. I have not seen a rhinoceros cloud, but this particular poet, I guess he saw a rhinoceros cloud. I'm not saying there's not, I just said I never saw one. What? You're kidding about what? You were kidding? Yeah. I think there probably are. Next time I have the misfortune of being in an airplane, I'm going to see if I can find any, if I have a good seat. The cloud rhinoceros enjoys the moonlight, engulfed in its radiance.

[21:23]

Another translation would be radiance in radiance. The wooden horse frolics in the springtime, free and unbridled. What's this celebrating? It's celebrating breathing in and breathing out with our dwelling. Radiance in radiance. Frolicking in the springtime flowers, free and unbridled. What's that? Breathing in and breathing out totally with our dwelling. Below the brow a pair of cold blue eyes.

[22:25]

So that's the 27th ancestor. Below the eyebrows. This is a Chinese poet and the Chinese think of the Indians as having, you know, Chinese almost never have blue eyes. So they sometimes think of the people who came from India and Central Asia, they sometimes had blue eyes. So he's imagining the ancestor, the 27th, as having blue eyes. Cold blue eyes. Why are they cold? Why are they cold? Because he doesn't sing a song for the king. Unlike me, he doesn't entertain the king with songs and dances of the scriptures. He just breathes in and breathes out while he has lunch, without dwelling in body and mind,

[23:31]

which means he doesn't dwell in lunch. He's just trying to show the teaching without even pointing to the teaching. And then he says, how can scripture reading come to pierce an ox hide? So again, this is referring back to the story. The ancestor did not read the scriptures, so then the poet's saying, how can reading scriptures pierce an ox hide? It's a question. So one side of the question is, how could that be possible? So the ancestor doesn't read scriptures, but not because reading scriptures cannot pierce ox hides,

[24:33]

not because reading scriptures cannot penetrate to the reality. How can reading scriptures penetrate through all the obstructions to truth? Reading scriptures can penetrate when you read wholeheartedly, when you read the scriptures wholeheartedly. And when you breathe wholeheartedly. Breathing wholeheartedly penetrates the ox hide, and reading scriptures with your whole body and mind penetrates to the truth. But just reading them, or just breathing without wholeheartedness, does not penetrate. It just bounces off appearances. But the ancestor, he could read this scripture. He reads his scripture. His scripture is, breathing in, I don't dwell inwardly.

[25:38]

Breathing out, I don't dwell outwardly. But even if I say that, that is a scripture which won't penetrate, that reading won't penetrate, unless I'm wholehearted when I say that scripture. Clear, clean mind produces immense eons. Heroic power smashes the double enclosure. The double enclosure of inward and outward is smashed by the enthusiastic wholeheartedness breathing in and breathing out of the Buddhas, who are breathing in and breathing out wholeheartedly all day long. The spiritual function turns

[26:47]

in the mouth of subtle roundness. One forgot the road along which he came. The other led him back, taking him by the hand. The king wanted to practice the way of Buddha's wisdom, so he invites the great teacher. That's how they came to meet. He wanted to give him lunch, but he also wanted to walk on the path of the Buddhas, breathing in and breathing out without dwelling. But he got distracted. He forgot the reason he had the person for lunch. He didn't have him for lunch in order to hear a song. He had a lunch in order to realize the way. He lost the way by which he came to meet the ancestor.

[27:51]

So the ancestor gently took him by the hand and brought him back home. Could you speak up, please? Under the brow. I noticed how I was doing. I noticed what my emotion was doing. I was kind of curious about that.

[28:54]

I was curious about that. It was the body, it was the breath. And where did the emotion get in? There was something about the idea that emotion was neither, no particular emotional thought. You could see it that way. You could see it that there's no emotion. Or you could see that there's, as it says here, a heroic intensity or heroic fierceness to be wholehearted. That there's a great enthusiasm for being wholehearted. That's the emotion. The emotion is joyful enthusiasm to practice wholeheartedly. That's the emotion of the practice. And not offering anything more than this

[29:56]

fierce dedication to practice is what's meant by cold. But there's a tremendous emotion there. It's just not certain kinds of entertainments. And when you're concentrated on your breathing, you naturally then come to be more aware of your feelings. Without even looking at them, your feelings and emotions are shown to you very clearly. So the Buddha first teaches mindfulness of posture and breathing, and then mindfulness of feeling, and then mindfulness of emotions and ideas. But they naturally, it's like, the first one is in some ways coarser, the body is in some sense coarser than mental factor called feelings. It seems like emotions are not something that you can control. I mean, to some extent I can control my posture,

[31:02]

and I can exercise certain kinds of control. But emotions still exist, but they're not something that I can control. I understand that I think many people would see that same appearance. And this teaching is saying, when you wholeheartedly engage the body which you think you can control, you can leap into the realm where that body is free and unbridled, where that body and breath are galloping in the springtime, where the body and breath are like a cloud rhino, immersed in radiance. But you may start by setting the stage of a body that seems that you can control. But this teaching, the Buddha didn't say control your body, he said be aware of what posture your body is in. He didn't say stand up, he didn't say walk, he didn't say sit.

[32:06]

He said, be aware of the posture you're in. And you may think that the posture you're in, you can control yourself into it, but he didn't say, he didn't tell you to do that, and he didn't tell you to stop thinking that you could control it. He just said, what posture is it in, be aware of that. So the coarseness, and the relative coarseness and the relative subtlety is another way to say it. When it's coarse, it might appear that you can control it. The body being more coarse than a feeling, maybe you think you can control it. But as the feelings and the emotions get more and more subtle, it becomes easier to see that they are difficult to grasp, or it's harder to see how you can grasp them. As things get more subtle, if you can't grasp something, it may be easier to see that it's not something to control.

[33:10]

You can say, did you hear what she said? She said, I can say, I will be at Zazen tomorrow morning. You can say that. Because this is America. No, you can say the second thing too. You can say, I will be at Zazen tomorrow morning, and I will feel like this. For example, I will be at Zazen tomorrow morning, and I will feel happy. You can say that, because this is America. You can say it, right. And also, in order to say it, you have to think it. So you can think it and say it. And it's a free country, so you can say it and think it. But what I would suggest to you for consideration is to say and think, I want to be at Zazen tomorrow morning, and I want to feel great enthusiasm for being there. And also, I know that rarely do I feel great enthusiasm

[34:29]

when I get there, because it's too early. So I wish to get up in the morning and go sit, and I wish to sit wholeheartedly, and I wish to sit so wholeheartedly that I don't dwell, and I wish to sit, and I wish to practice this scripture. I wish to do it, and I may do it. It might happen. And wouldn't that be fine? I think that would be fine. But I do not know if I will get up tomorrow morning, and I do not know if I will sit wholeheartedly, but I want to. And also, I believe that if I do, I will leap into the cloud rhino land. But isn't part of it just saying, I'm going to show up and be present with whatever? I'm saying you can say it that way. You can say, I'm going to show up. It's okay to say that. I'm giving you another alternative, or additional comment.

[35:30]

This is America. You can say, I'm going to show up. You can talk like that. You can say, I'm going to be a good girl. You can do that. And I'm not going to try to stop you. I'm just going to add an additional comment here. This is a commentary on Sarah's comments. The commentary is, I want to be a good woman. I want to show up. And when I show up, I want to show up totally. The wish, bodhisattvas are more like wishing people. They don't say what they're going to do, because they don't know what they're going to do. They know they don't know. Because they're leaping and jumping all day long. And they leap with the wish that their leaping will liberate beings. But what if beings say, I don't want to be liberated? Bodhisattvas still want to liberate them, but they don't say, well, I'm here to liberate you. So you're liberated. No, they don't. Well, they might do that just as a joke.

[36:32]

So you can talk like that. I'm going to get up, and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do that, and that's fine with me. And I'm saying try out also, I wish to get up. And if I wish to get up, even if I don't get up, I still wish to get up. But if I said I was going to get up, and I don't get up, I'm just wrong. And plus, I missed when I said that, that I want to get up. It's not just that I'm going to get up, I want to get up. Some people say, I'm going to do X, but they forget to say, I want to do X. Like I'm going to go to work tomorrow. Did you want to go to work? No? Okay. But if you did want to go to work, it would be really good if you knew that. Because this whole operation is sponsored by your wish. Your wish to be a Buddha or be a Bodhisattva

[37:38]

by this practice. I wish to be a Bodhisattva tomorrow. I wish to be a Buddha tomorrow. I'm not going to really say, and it's okay also to say, I'm going to be a Buddha tomorrow. That's fine too. But I would suggest you add wish, or just have wish. I have imagination Bodhisattvas walk around wishing to help everybody. They don't necessarily go around thinking that they are helping everybody. They might. But I actually haven't heard that much. In all the scriptures I've read, I cannot think of an example where a Bodhisattva says, I am helping many people. But I heard millions of examples where they say, I want to help many people. And where they say, I want to get up in the morning

[38:38]

and sit wholeheartedly for the welfare of the world. That I've heard innumerable times. But it's also okay to say, I'm going to get up and sit in the morning and I'm going to feel such and such a way. Or just say, I'm going to get up and I don't know how I'm going to feel. Or say, I'm going to get up and I would like to feel really enthusiastic. But because of my memory, I remember that there were quite a few mornings where I wasn't enthusiastic, so maybe I won't be. Not every morning that I get up and sit am I really sitting there with great enthusiasm. I confess. But so far, in all these years, I've never got up and gone and sit and regretted sitting. Even if I sat halfheartedly, I didn't regret it. I regretted being halfhearted, but I didn't regret going and sitting and noticing that I was halfhearted. I think it's beneficial for me

[39:39]

to notice my halfheartedness so I can tell you about it. So if ever you happen to be halfhearted or one-third hearted, you would know that even a person who's been practicing a long time is sometimes not wholehearted, and yet he's preaching wholeheartedness. And I wish to practice what I preach, but I don't always. And maybe some of you don't always practice wholeheartedly. Maybe. Yes? I want to say that when I spoke a little while ago... When you what? Spoke a little while ago about being taken by the breath, whatever. Most of the time, though, the experience is that I'm taken by worries, anxieties, everything that I have, and wholeheartedness is nowhere in the picture. So... Thank you for completing the story.

[40:41]

So, your prescription is saying, I wish to be wholehearted. It's almost like a mantra? If you say it over and over, it would be very much like a mantra. But it's a wish, and it's a vow. And bodhisattvas also say vows over and over, so they remember. And again, if we wholeheartedly breathe and wholeheartedly sit, worries drop away. It isn't that they're not there, it's just that they kind of like just drop away in the wholeheartedness. When we're half-hearted, then we have time to worry. When we're wholehearted, there's just...

[41:47]

breathing. Yes? When the question was asked the second meeting about whether there was anything else necessary in life besides not dwelling, was there an answer? I may have said what you just said, but I'd like to say, before I say what I was going to say, I'm going to say there was not an answer. Generally speaking, when I ask questions, when I ask questions, I don't get answers. When I ask myself. And that's okay with me. When I ask other people questions, sometimes they answer them, even though I didn't particularly want them to. Like I sometimes say to people,

[42:48]

are you awake? And they say yes. That's fine, but I didn't necessarily want them to. I wanted them to see if they were. But maybe they did, and they found out that they were, and they said yes. So I didn't answer. However, even though I didn't answer, I do think maybe that everything I need to do to be of service to beings, including myself, can emerge, and will emerge most effectively from the place of non-dwelling. That's the theory of the path of enlightenment. The most effective way of helping people emerges from non-dwelling. It is possible to help people from a position of dwelling. You can be helpful to people, even if you're dwelling. You can still be helpful. But the most effective way of helping

[43:48]

is not just to help people, but to liberate them. Not just help them out in their prisons, but help them out and liberate them. And that kind of help comes from non-abiding, because you're teaching them how to do the thing which will liberate them. So they can be wooden horses leaping in the springtime, free and unbridled. Yes? So speaking of liberation, I'm very grateful of your comment to Sarah about changing the language to wish. I was having a conversation before class with Jeff about, I need to be more disciplined, I'm going to be more disciplined, and just modifying that to, I have this wish to be more disciplined is very liberating. You can go from need to wish. I need to be an excellent woman,

[44:51]

therefore I wish to be. It's necessary for me to fully realize my potential. It's a necessity. And I wish to realize it. I want to realize necessity is the mother of invention. Yes? Did you say something about the horse frolicking in the springtime, free and unbridled? What did you say about it? It is okay and it is the bodhisattva way. And not only to wish to be free and unbridled in the frolicking through the spring,

[45:52]

but to do this frolicking in order to teach other people how to frolic. This is the bodhisattva vow. And you asked me if it's okay to do the bodhisattva vow, and I would say it's okay. But it's also okay to do other kinds of vows too. Like, I'm going to be a wooden horse tomorrow. All day long. And I'm going to frolic all over Berkeley. Free and unbridled. That's okay too. But if you say that, then I would say it might be helpful to turn it into a wish also. So it isn't just... Bodhisattvas are aspirational beings. They're not anthropologists. I mean, basically, they're aspirational beings. They're aspirers. They're aspiring beings. And they occasionally are anthropologists. In other words, they occasionally say, the people in the yoga room actually do practice this. They actually do run around Berkeley like wooden horses in springtime.

[46:54]

That's more like anthropological observation. Or prediction. You can do that too. But the key thing is to aspire. Because that's where the energy comes from. Energy, which I talked about before, right? Energy doesn't come from facts. Like, I'm a good person. Doesn't really generate much energy. Congratulations! I'm glad you are. The energy comes from, I'm a good person, and I wish to continue to, for example, get up and practice meditation. That aspiration, energy can come from that. The roots of your energy are what you wish, not what you are. Yeah? I have to remind myself out loud that wishing and aspiring come without dwelling and being attached. They can. And you don't want to do it?

[47:55]

I aspire to that. I aspire to aspire without dwelling in aspiration. However, aspiration can be with dwelling when you start out. You can dwell in your aspiration as a beginner. And also... You do. Everything you dwell in, you're going to get in trouble for. But when you first start doing a practice, you're probably going to dwell in it. That's the way you usually start. I'm probably going to start with accepting what is, and then take it from there. If you can accept what is, I would say that's a good place to start. That's very similar to starting with generosity. Yeah, it's a little bit complicated for me. I'm either accepting what is, which is I'm not following an intention, and I'm okay with that, or I'm not aspiring towards it.

[48:55]

So how do you think about that? Let's see. So, you're not frolicking, and you accept that you're not frolicking. And I personally would aspire to accept... If I was not frolicking, I would aspire to accept and be gracious to my not-frolicking. I would think that that graciousness towards my non-frolicking would be part of the basis for me to have a really strong aspiration to frolic. And to frolic freely and unbridled. I wish to frolic that way. And if I feel bridled and unfree, generosity towards that is compatible with realizing the aspiration to be free of that. Anything else tonight? Cecilia or Cecile?

[50:03]

Cecile. Okay. Cecile. I'm really happy to be responding. And I, you know, feel that sometimes when I'm really in touch with someone, that that's the truth I speak. I was kind of responding to your comments about emotion. So I listened to John Lewis speak at the memorial for Roger Washington. And I'm always, always inspired by Black Americans who come from a really deep commitment. Like John Lewis and Martin King.

[51:04]

And I just find that so inspiring. And I am so pained by racism in America again, when there's no one, you know, Well, there are some people of color here. There are some people of color in this room. I would say. I don't see a lot of people that I would call African Americans, but there are people of color in this room. But anyway, we would like more people of color to come to the yoga room classes, wouldn't we? Yeah, so there's two of us. But I don't see a lot of them, and I wish there were. It's a wish. And I'm inspired to have that wish. And so are you. And taking care of that wish

[52:09]

generates the energy to live a life dedicated to that. And didn't I talk about sorrow last time and the time before here? No? About how repentance, the definition of the word repentance in English, is sorrow, a sorrow, a type of sorrow that comes from actions which you yourself have done, which you feel sorrow for. And it's a type of sorrow which doesn't debilitate you, but actually transforms you in the direction you wish for. That kind of sorrow is an essential aspect of compassion, that you feel sorrow when you don't act in the way you aspire to. And, yeah, that kind of sorrow is really healthy and wonderful.

[53:15]

And you're happy when you have that kind of sorrow. I'm glad that I feel sorrow over not being kind to that person. I'm glad I am. And when I looked at my father in his casket, he looked so sweet, I just burst into tears and I was so happy to be crying. And my uncle made me stop. I mean, he didn't make me stop, he just tried to make me stop. So I stopped for him. But I was having such a good time crying. And I was crying because my father looked so sweet. I was so happy. Yes? I also spent a lot of yesterday crying through the same speech. And it occurs to me that I think, I didn't understand yesterday why I was crying so much, but I think it was because that event was about aspiration.

[54:22]

My uncle, his speech was, I have a need. And all those people were there with aspiration, they weren't there with a kind of militancy, like, you know, we have to have this or we're going to get it, or, you know, kind of more militant acts, but it was about aspiration. And it really touches my heart. Yes? You both speak so well. I think that, I think it's so well-directed, and I'm not going to imply that I have a lot of speeches, but, you know, I'm so grateful for those speeches. And at one point you said, I'm the only Negro in that country who's not violent, and I'm the only Negro in that country who's not violent. No violence is such a radical thing.

[55:23]

And aspiration is the... radical means root. Aspiration is the radical of energy and enthusiasm. That's where the energy for practicing wholesome, for practicing virtue, comes from the aspiration to practice virtue. And we have to go back to that root on a regular basis to renew, to refresh the energy. Yes? Good for you. Yes.

[56:37]

So aspiration is the root of energy and enthusiasm, and the root of aspiration is contemplating cause and effect. So Martin Luther King wasn't always non-violent. In the earlier part of his career, where he was trying to stand up to the injustices which he saw, he had some friends who were going to use weapons. I shouldn't say friends, but associates. Some of his associates were contemplating violence as a means to promote civil rights. And I don't exactly remember where these weapons were, but they were in somebody's basement.

[57:39]

I don't know if it was his basement, but there was a basement among his associates where there were lots of weapons stored. And he was in association with these people who were contemplating violence. And then this thing happened, which you all know, I guess, a bombing the church with the little girls in it. And he could see that his contemplation of violence was part of what led to this bombing. He was converted to the aspiration of non-violence by contemplating cause and effect. He could see that using violence to establish civil rights was not going to work. He could see that that's where it comes from. It comes from violence.

[58:40]

The whole thing comes from violence. It comes from violently abducting people from Africa and violently transforming them, transporting them and violently treating them. This is what leads to this. He saw that, and then he saw that violently relating to that would not work. That contemplation led him to aspire to non-violence and gave him the courage to keep aspiring and keep aspiring, to keep his energy up. The source, the root of the aspiration for peace is to contemplate cause and effect. The root of energy is that aspiration. Look at the way things go when you do things this way. You can't actually see, but you can see. That's the root.

[59:42]

Yes, I can say it's much more wonderful than what I was trying to get you to say. But I'm going to go back to my low-level question. Wait a second, did I answer your question? But not the way you wanted me to. Yeah, no, you did, but... Tell me what you want me to say. I'd like to hear it. No, go ahead. I really did appreciate what you said about that, about what was not our best impression. It comes to mind when I have people sometimes who don't have any aspirations. They feel they don't, and they're miserable. I feel like I've got a problem with them. They're envious. Do you say they're envious of you having an aspiration? Yeah, they like that. Their life is fine, but it's like a big stagnant. And I can't understand where my or your aspirations are generated from.

[60:46]

But maybe when I think about it, I shouldn't be able to say this. It's kind of going on in their lives, and they don't get it. Oftentimes people discover their aspiration when they look at... Again, the root of aspiration is contemplating cause and effect. So oftentimes people discover their aspiration when they look at a story. It can be a story about some other time, or a story right in front of them. So I read some stories, which means as I was reading them, I could see them, and I could see the cause and effect of the story. And in the cause and effect of the story, I said, I wish to be like that. Nobody told me, you know, you should think like this, you should think like that, then you'll have an aspiration to be a bodhisattva.

[61:49]

And I didn't even know the word bodhisattva. I just knew, I looked at the stories of people who were bodhisattvas, and they weren't called bodhisattvas in the story, they were called monks. Now I find out they're bodhisattvas. But in the story, the cause and effect of the story, I could see it. And when I saw it, I said, I want to go through that kind of cause and effect. I already know the cause and effect of somebody insults me, I insult them back. I know that cause and effect, but I don't aspire to that. That's the way I already am. When I saw somebody get insulted and go, have a gracious response, and then get praised and have a gracious response, I thought, when I saw that cause and effect, I said, that's the cause and effect I aspire to live. It isn't just when you get slapped, turn the other cheek,

[62:51]

although that's pretty cool. It's when you get kissed, turn the other cheek. Also, turn the cheek basically the same way, whether kissed or slapped. I thought that cause and effect was even cooler than just turn the cheek. Because a lot of people actually can do one, but not the other. That's like the cold eyes, yeah. And when I saw that, I said, that is cool. I didn't say, that's cold. Now people say, oh, that's cold. That's the latest thing. Oh, that's cold. But I did think that was cool. That was really cool. Slap. Ah. Praise. Flip around. Always staying upright, no matter what. I saw that. And that was a story. That was cause and effect. And that cause and effect led to the aspiration.

[63:54]

And sometimes you tell other people stories, sometimes you show them. You don't mean to sometimes, but you do. Like, they slap you, and you come back with compassion. That's a story. And maybe they don't tell you that they saw the story, and maybe you find out later, they went and told somebody else. I slapped her, and she had this really cool response. I'm not going to tell her about it, but it was really cool. I've been trying to be like that ever since. I just heard this story about, I've heard it several times from one of my friends. He met this guy, I don't know how he met this guy, but anyway, he met this guy, who was about 70, who just happened to meet Suzuki Roshi one time on the streets of San Francisco, and somehow had a talk to him. And he said,

[65:01]

Hey Roshi, you know, guess what? I actually understand past and future. And Suzuki Roshi said, Oh? And slapped him in the face. And said, Was that in your future? And this is a guy who wasn't a Zen student, he just met him, and that guy has remembered that his whole life. It's been like the beacon in his life, that he's aspired to that kind of coolness. And when I heard that story, I thought, when Suzuki Roshi doesn't have a teacher, doesn't have a student, he gives him a special teaching like that. But his poor students didn't get those good teachings. But this guy had nothing to lose. With his students, he'd lose all his students if he did. So he was too nice to us, and we stayed. Bill.

[66:04]

What did you say? You missed it? He said, Was that in your future? The guy said, I understand past and future. And he slapped and said, Was that in your future? That guy never hung around Zen Center, he just carried that teaching with him. And occasionally he meets some Zen student and tells them. Suzuki Roshi was very playful, but sometimes his students weren't ready for it, so he had to go out in the street and find somebody who was. Yes? In the interview, I can hear

[67:16]

a lot of the language that she used. It was so similar to what we've been talking about, about finding the light. She lost all of her memories, her speech, her mental constructs. She said, I had nothing left but my breath, and I was in a realm of light. And as a patient of that, and as a student of it, and I'm very curious about how the different sides of our brain, the different ways of experiencing things, work together, and how they, it's sort of like the breath and the body, and then the relationship that is around, and then the training our, training our mind, to train our body and mind, how to be whole,

[68:17]

to train our mind and our breathing body to be wholehearted. Because if we can be wholehearted, we can enter this light, and from this light, we can do the right thing. I have an aspiration that someone, someone in this community, or someone helps us, as a selected group, learn how to be positive in a way that is constructive and productive and leads to something that's positive and energetic. And I think that I feel like I, and we as folks in this community, come up with better ways to think of conflict than avoiding it or going to war. Yeah. So there's probably lots of other ways to think of conflict that can actually be really instant and really constructive

[69:18]

and I wish I could aspire to that. You aspire to that and you, and you aspire to help other people aspire to it. Is that right? Or just you aspire yourself? I aspire to see it. I aspire to see it. I don't feel that I personally aspire to it. It's just like, it's my aspiration. Okay, you aspire to see it. I hear your aspiration. And I, one more story, is a story about this, I forgot his name. I think his name is Lucien something. And he's a French, huh? Lucien, and Lucien I think is related to the word light, I believe. Anyway, Lucien something, he's a French guy. And when he was pretty young,

[70:22]

I forgot how young, maybe six, seven, eight, he started to lose his vision and he lost it quite quickly. And then he still wanted to play with the other kids who were running around and doing various things but he was having trouble keeping up with them because he got finally pretty blind. And I forgot how it happened but anyway at some point he said, I could see the light. And he actually could get around then after that in this light. And move successfully without bumping into things and keep up with his friends because he found this light. And how he found it, I don't think he really could tell how he found it but he did find it. And once he found it, he could take care of it

[71:26]

and have it as a resource from which he could act. And he was in a lot of conflict situations. Like he lived in France during the Second World War so he was in the resistance. He was a blind resistance fighter. And then he was also a blind inhabitant of concentration camps. But he had this light. And when he was in that light, he was fine and he could help other people and encourage them from this light. And he said, but I would lose it when I became angry or afraid. So he'd be moving along and he learned that from when he was a little boy. He'd move along and if the other boys ran away from him or something and he got angry, he'd lose the light. Or if he got scared of bumping into things, he'd lose it and then he'd bump into things. But as long as he found that place where he let... the whole-hearted place, right? Where you let go of the fear

[72:29]

because you're right here and you let go of the anger because you're right here, totally. Then he had this light. And so he went through the resistance and he was a serviceable resistance person and blind. And then he went into the camps and he was a great servant and a great encouragement to the people in the camps because he had this light that he could come from and show them for. The fear and the anger, he would lose it. So the light's there. Whole-heartedness, whole-heartedly breathing in and out is the way to enter. And then once you enter, be careful not to get afraid, let go of your fear and your anger, otherwise you'll lose it. But if you lose it, just go back to be whole-hearted again and you can enter again. Very simple, but as you know,

[73:31]

it's a little difficult to be whole-hearted. But we can aspire to it. I don't know if I'll be whole-hearted tomorrow, but I wish to be. And I don't know if you'll be whole-hearted tomorrow, but I wish you will be. Thank you very much.

[73:52]

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