The Buddhism has developed a number of institutions to occasion, I said, the power of speech to make words language into an occasion, an event. I mean, how many koans have you read? If you read, you must have read some. Matsu said so and so. And at that, the monk was enlightened. That's about language. That's about... Enlightenment occurs at the threshold of language. Yeah, but we also say it's outside words and letters. That really means outside the usual way of understanding language.

[01:01]

Außerhalb der Sprache als Beschreibung. Also Sprache in diesem Sinne sollte drei Tore in jedem Wort beinhalten. And that requires a kind of non-reading mind, a non-usual language mind. So Zen has developed the institution of Se Shin. To let you have a chance to hear the teaching differently.

[02:19]

And more, you know, really as the way Sashin can affect your ordinary practice. Practice period affects Sashin in ordinary practice even more so. As Sashin affects ordinary practice, practice period affects Sashin. I understand actually, I think, quite well the institution of Sashin. Yeah, the logic about all the different aspects. But I actually don't understand the practice period as well.

[03:23]

All I know is that it works. I know a little more than that, but not too much more. For some reason, you know, practice periods are a pretty ordinary thing. You don't do much, it's not much different than your ordinary life. And yet it's different. And it's three months long. Or it's three moons long, traditionally. Yeah, so then, but here I am, I'm committed to lay practice. So it's always, you know, and I'm sorry to bother you with my, you know, process about it. But... How do we take a few days like this, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and create a situation which there's no tradition for this kind of teaching?

[04:48]

In the early days, when I did seminars, I had more sitting. And I wore robes often. But I found new people found it hard to sit much more than we do in this seminar. And I really don't like to force anyone to sit. And when we're sitting and I feel somebody over there, it's kind of, oh, you know, my legs start to hurt too.

[05:51]

So I, you know, I feel so uncomfortable that I ring the bell quickly. But in Sashin, you know what you've got into, you know, so... You know what you're getting into. Well, you may not know. But you do know there's going to be a lot of sitting. So in those circumstances I feel, okay, let's sit. And if it doesn't feel too good, I'm sorry. But that's surprisingly surprising what a sashin or two will do for your practice. I think almost everyone who does sashins will attest to that. And even more so, that's the practice period.

[06:53]

And yet I want to do this kind of seminar too. So this year we tried a number of sort of four-day or Thursday night to Sunday seminars. And I concluded by doing it this year that for too many people it's inconvenient to come for four days. And actually it might be a little too long. Because if we can't sit more then I can only develop a topic so much at a certain level. So next year we'll only have really what ends up to be a day and a half seminar because it's Saturday and two-thirds of Sunday.

[08:08]

But at the same time, I think you may agree, to some extent, that this longer seminar has a different pace. So I'm going to try a compromise next year. For those who want to join me on Friday from 10 to 4 we'll have the secret teachings. And then Friday night we'll start with the public teaching. I actually don't know what we'll do from 10 to 4, but we'll have some kind, for the more people who want to get into it more deeply, I'll try to show some background of the teaching.

[09:32]

So we'll see if anyone comes to the sort of pre-day. Yeah. So I'm interested, of course, in your feeling about how I can improve or develop this way of doing seminars. And for those of you who can't come to Johanneshof very often, And a seminar which is more part of your ordinary life, usual life here in the Kassel area.

[10:35]

In this building I found out it's named Kassala, which is the old name for Kassel. Somehow we're at the ancient heart of Kassel here. Norbert and Angela think that every two years is probably better than every year. Norbert und Angela finden, dass jedes zweite Jahr vielleicht besser ist als jährlich. I think partly because of the work of organizing it. Und teilweise auch wegen der Organisationsarbeit. And next year, in 2003 spring, we'll try to pick a date. Und wir werden versuchen, im Frühjahr 2003 ein Datum zu finden. And they suggest we do it at a residential center where we can sleep overnight. So we'll see how that works.

[12:02]

I'm actually stopping most of the seminars I've done outside Johanneshof. So a few I'll keep. Maybe Kassel is a good one to keep. That's a little joke because keep in English means a castle. So castle is one I should keep. And Andreas is organizing for the first time, this Andreas, a seminar in Hanover next year. And Hannover is fairly near, isn't it?

[13:11]

So maybe we can have... It would work to have Hannover every other year, too. I don't know. So anyway, you're part of my decision. I like being with you. I like whatever happens here in Kassel. So we'll see whether I should keep coming to northern Germany or not. You know, I'm getting old, so I should, you know, retire soon, you know. But so far I'll kind of stagger north. On my cane, you know. Okay. So I'd also like to now have some discussion from you.

[14:24]

Instead of breaking it into small groups, maybe we can just have some, if possible, some free discussion without too much shyness or worrying about what you're saying, et cetera. And Norbert had a question about making decisions, I think. And I'd like to come back to that later and let you say it again to me. But right now I'd like to see if anyone has something they'd like to bring up or say. Yeah. I would like to tell you a little bit about how the days have been for me so far.

[15:29]

You said at the beginning that you were entering a new level of teaching and this message had already come from Günther. I would like to tell you my experience of these couple of days. You said also that there is a little different way of teaching and more expanding way of teaching and integrating and so he felt, I feel that it's also very complex. A lot of things you kind of mention which you at some other times are using a whole weekend for.

[16:39]

So what I saw and realized is like a direction, like a stream of practice, which encompasses, for example, the paramitas as already developed practice, but then again they are sort of a prerequisite to practice. Yes, I understand. My feeling was that Therese has said that many people just sit, the attitude with this first foundation of mindfulness, so to speak, this physical aspect, practice, always a lot of practice.

[18:01]

mentioned as an important part the sitting and the first foundation of mindfulness and the body, physical part. In this second foundation of mindfulness I feel like the conditioning comes more into it, culture, and to this part I also have a question. And I have the feeling, I often experience myself in this, mainly still in this dislike-like distinction, very often also in this hate and greed, so this hate-gear side.

[19:09]

And I experience myself often in dislike and dislike, and also sometimes in the greed. Sometimes it's just a little more pleasant and unpleasant, and it's as if, normally in life, you find yourself again at some point, and the practice is then to follow back, to go back, where does it come from, how does it arise? So usually in life you find yourself at some point and in the practice you kind of go back and find out how you got there. How I got to the dislike. To experience that. Let's not make it too long here. Dan? What is your question? I see a direction in there. Something arises, That is not yet tangible.

[20:25]

And that is this nether area. Then it becomes pleasant, unpleasant. Then comes this liking, not liking, then it is such a direction. As if this is neither on the same level, but even further ahead. So his question is that there is a direction which this all goes to, and he feels like this neither is outside of that somehow. Outside of what? Outside of the direction? No, it's the beginning. It starts with... Yes, it starts, it's ungraspable, and then it goes into pleasant or unpleasant, like the next step, and then goes on and on. Yes, you can understand it that way. In other words, something like neither is also emptiness.

[21:31]

But if I say emptiness, what does that mean to anyone? But if I show you, or try to show you, make you feel that it's hidden in pleasant and unpleasant, then pleasant and unpleasant are gates to emptiness. But it's not hidden in like and dislike. Like and dislike are not gates to emptiness. So pleasant and unpleasant are in the realm of dharma. like and dislike are in the realm of karma. And it's almost like a funnel.

[22:40]

Every time you have likes and dislikes, your past, everything, likes and dislikes, funnels your karma right into the situation. So I think just seeing these three lifted together is in itself a powerful teaching. You really feel pleasure, displeasure, neither, like, dislike, neutral. You don't have to translate it. Greed, hate, delusion. And feel how we're in that spectrum all the time. If you can feel you're in that spectrum, then you can feel how you can move in that spectrum. Now let me just say something about your practice. When I say your, I mean the kind of overall feeling I get from Dharmasanga Europe.

[23:54]

Which is really how good your practice is, it surprises me. It's better than I would have expected. Because somehow, and I don't think it's because of my teaching, I mean, I think I'm part of it, of course. But it's really the sangha that's developed. I think if the sangha hadn't developed the way it has, where people see each other quite often and practice, the teaching wouldn't have come together. You really need a sangha to make the teaching gel in you. And I can't really fully explain that. But if in a seminar I see people who have pretty much gone to the same number of seminars,

[24:55]

But one has not participated in the Sangha much and another one has. There's a big difference in how I can feel the presence of practice in their life. And I can feel who's done sesshins and who hasn't. People have done sesshins, when I look at them, their body is simply more in place. There's some composure that comes from inside and not from outside. I can't, you know, just, you know, I'm learning myself by seeing it.

[26:26]

It's not something I would have expected exactly. So you've, because I'm well aware of Sangha in a tight practicing community. But you've all taught me something about how a sangha can exist from, you know, southern Austria to northern Germany. And, of course, German-speaking Switzerland. Yeah, I mean, there's a few outsiders, a few Dutch people and French people, but mostly it's developed in the German language. I don't know why. Okay, someone else? Yes, I noticed a change in me, which looked like I had great expectations in the beginning,

[27:38]

I noticed a switch in me. In the beginning, I had big expectations. In this seminar? No, in the seminar. Each seminar, yeah. So that I had the hope, through certain contents, of, let's say, enlightenment. So that I hoped that by specific contents I would get enlightened. Oh, okay. Good. I hope so too. I have learned that without doing my own thing and chewing it up, But I learned that without my own re-doing and re... What does the cow do? Re-gurgitate. Yes, exactly.

[28:49]

Also, ein Fortschritt nicht möglich war. Und mein Eindruck ist, ich suche mir sowieso immer nur das raus, was für den Moment, in dem ich bin, passt. So I kind of pick what sort of is right for me at a specific moment and then I regurgitate that. Yeah, good. That's exactly right. So I evolve. So in each seminar I find something or a couple of things which I take along and which are important to me. Okay? Yeah, I'm glad. Yes? For me, these seminars are something like institutions.

[29:53]

For me these seminars also became an institution. So I spoke to Günter and we were together at certain seminars but both of us had a different perception of them. And so I approach the sangha and the teacher and the teachings more this way And I have the feeling that there is an interdependent of fruitfulness through the practice period, the sesshins and the seminars.

[31:14]

But without these very small doses of sitting within the seminars, I don't think that I would have proceeded, if they would have been much longer. If they'd been longer, it would have... Not longer. If they wouldn't have existed, these small periods of sitting in the seminar. We need at least this much sitting. We maybe need more, I don't know. You have to tell me what we need. Vielleicht brauchen wir mehr sitzen. Ihr müsst mir sagen, was ihr braucht. In line with what you're saying, I was discussing this with Angela and Norbert last night. We have quite a good group of people at Johanneshof now. Who work very well together. And the main reason is, I think, although they're quite different people,

[32:16]

is they share the commitment to practice with each other and with others. And that's part of the, maybe responding a little bit to your question about decisions, In Buddhism, decision-making is based on a series of decisions. So what you have, which is, you know, From the beginning at Johanneshof, we've had good people there. But they're often there for a variety of reasons. To practice for six months or to change their life or something like that.

[33:28]

But now we have a group of about eight people or more who say, okay, I'm going to do this all my life. I'm going to do this whether I'm supported or not supported or have a roof over my head or don't have a roof over my head. And I'm going to do this because this is the best way to be a human being with others and for myself. That doesn't mean that there aren't other ways to be a human being with others. These people have decided to just devote themselves to practice with others. What's interesting is everyone in the group, the regular residents, except one, have been to practice periods at Creston. And the one who... who hasn't gone is only because he can't get a visa to go and he doesn't have a German passport.

[35:12]

And he's trying to go each year. So it seems that the decision to practice in a way that helps others practice is very closely connected to doing practice periods. So I think we could say that if we're developing a lay Buddhist sangha, You know, not just where you give diluted teachings to the lay people. But an adept lay sangha depends on a monastic element being part of it. And some sort of mix of Sashins, seminars probably, the existence of Johanneshoff and Creston.

[36:42]

And since we've had Johanneshoff, which some people resisted, And every time there's a change in the Sangha, some people leave. Because they liked it the way it was. But somehow, having a place where one can go, even if you don't go very often, changes the feeling of the Sangha. I mean, excuse me for going on at such length about this. But, you know, I'm trying to figure this out every year as a kind of transition for me. Particularly this year. Not only am I remarried for two or three years now but as you may have heard, I have a daughter.

[38:02]

And I have to figure out how the heck we're going to live and see if she's really willing to live in semi-monastic situations. And she says, well, this is a great improvement over the boarding schools I went to. Internate. Yeah, and I have to start really training, seriously training successors. Okay, something else. Somebody who hasn't said anything yet.

[39:17]

Okay, thanks. I would like to express my thankfulness. I practice Tibetan Buddhism and say that I'm a student of Sogyal. I know him quite well. I like him. I know a video where you both are in... Giggling. I've heard about it. He giggles a lot more than I do. Yes, he laughs a lot more than I do. I've been to some of your seminars here in Kassel. Yesterday when I drove home, I had the feeling that you are also one of my teachers. And then I didn't ask what it meant.

[40:38]

And the answer was, in your teaching I can And then I ask myself, what does this mean? And I realize that in your teachings I can always sort of find again the place where I am with my practice and put an order to it. But I'm also a little confused. Because I have to decide each day again and again which path I want to go. So which way of practice I should choose, and so it came up the desire to do a zazen.

[41:49]

And I'm just coming out of a retreat of three months, which I did in our center. There is a question, do I have to distinguish, is that important for my path? I think one needs a home-based practice. I think it's actually good to be familiar with other practices. But your home-based practice is the practice you fold the other practices into. So I don't see any problem for you as a Rigpa practitioner adding a little more meditation in the Zen way or doing a Sashin.

[42:59]

And you might speak to Sogyal Rinpoche about it. But all of us have to decide at some point which is our home-based practice. Which feels more comfortable for us. And I think a measure of that is It's like when I've advised couples who are going to get married. The first condition I've seen of a good marriage is both people feel comfortable with each other. They can just be together, don't have to say anything, etc.

[44:23]

If that's not there, the relationship won't last. And second, you seem to have the same kind of friends, your friends like the other person's friends. And third, you have similar visions of the world. And in the case of marriage, fourth, there should be a physical connection. But I think the same may be true in finding a practice. You need to find one that you're comfortable with and that even the same kind of people are attracted to and so forth. Yeah, and so forth. You know, it's funny.

[45:29]

I find with some sanghas, a lot of the people in both sanghas feel comfortable with each other. And it might be a Tibetan in my sangha, our sangha. Ja, und das finde ich einfach auch zwischen unterschiedlichen Sanghas. Also es kann auch sich eine tibetische Sangha mit meiner Sangha wohlfühlen. And then there's some Zen Sanghas, which the people don't feel comfortable with each other at all. Und dann gibt es auch einige Zen Sanghas, wo sich die Menschen überhaupt nicht miteinander wohlfühlen. Yeah, so. Anyway, I'm happy if you want to come to a Sashin. We should talk about it a little bit, but happy if you want to do it. Yes, I am happy if you would like to come to a session. Maybe we should talk about it again, but I am happy about it. Okay. Something else, someone else? Who hasn't said anything? No, it's all right, go ahead. You said this morning that it is important to understand insight, that the practice cannot seem to be transformed without insight.

[46:34]

You said that it is important to gain insight, that our practice doesn't work transformatively without insight. You're asking if that's the case? You're saying that's the case? No, he's just started. I'm translating the first part so that I can... Standing so far was, of Zen was that sitting is sufficient and that I don't need to do anything more than sitting. that by sitting without that I make an effort that the transformation will occur. And now I got confused because I now understand that you feel that the insights are important.

[48:05]

And so I don't know how shall I sit, how shall I practice. Well, like I said in the Thursday evening, I would say adept practice is the combination of meditation practice, mindfulness practice, and in particular developed breath-mind practice. And then the introduction of traditional teachings.

[49:09]

And all of that practiced intentionally as in terms of phrases or feelings that you bring into the stream of your daily life and your practice. Without those five, I would say there's really not likely to be Zen practice. But even if you only sit, in a sense you may be doing that. Okay. Let me give a short riff on that. The Chinese... I hope it's short. The Chinese tried to bring Indian Buddhism into China.

[50:43]

And they developed really immense think tanks, sort of, to do this. Do you know the word think tank in German? You don't know what it is? But you know what it is? Okay. What? Oh, like the Max Planck Institute is a kind of think tank that lasted over generations and were primarily translation projects. But they didn't have science or anything, so all the best minds of Chinese culture were involved in this huge project. And it was an activity of, sometimes there were 15,000 monks involved in one institute.

[51:48]

Doing all the research, trying to feel how these terms would fit into Chinese words and how the Chinese word would actually transform culture in China just by taking a familiar word and making it slightly different. And these went on for some generations. Okay. One of the things they tried to do is bring as much as possible the teachings into body practice. So the precision of Zen sitting is partly an attempt to do, is partly a form of preparatory practice.

[53:05]

So like in Tibetan Buddhism you have lots of preparatory practices. They tried to fold that all into the sitting posture. And to awaken and trust the physical body and the wider sense of the physical body as including the phenomenal world. So Zen, more than any other Buddhist school, can come close to saying, just sit. But I can say that most of the time people who just sit end up not understanding much. But certain kinds of people who just sit, they have a flow of insights that keeps transforming their practice.

[54:18]

But most people, we have to prod that prod, help that process of insight. But whether you just sit or you try to bring the teachings into your practice fully. There's no question that the first of the eightfold path is views. And then the next is intentions. And then there's the development of those intentions in your speech, your behavior, and your livelihood.

[55:33]

So your intentions are made visible through how you've chosen to live, speak, and act. And in that you then begin to see that your views are somehow delusional, often delusionary. You see that maybe implicitly you assume a kind of permanence or something. Or you see you have a job in a laboratory that's actually probably harming people. So you start trying to change your job or the way you speak or so forth to keep reflecting the wisdom views.

[56:51]

So you have energy, mindfulness and meditation as the latter part of the Eightfold Path. And that keeps transforming your intentions and views. And then those transformed views allow you to meditate more deeply. So you can think of the Eightfold Path as a kind of engine to use your daily life to practice. That's central to whatever form of Buddhism you have, that engine is central to the practice.

[58:08]

Okay, yes. So in Zen Buddhism there is this essence Essence, yeah. Yes, essence. And I always thought that there actually was no essence of the path, that the next step is sort of... so that the path is not determined by the essence but by the steps. I don't know what you mean by essence.

[59:09]

She would like to know what the essence is of sense. So is there an essence? What would you want the essence to be? The essence of Zen is to just sit. But essence means many things. If I speak about the essence of mind, I use that term very tentatively. Because we don't want to think of it as there originally that you uncover. I think it's not good pedagogy if you think of Zen as a process of uncovering.

[60:20]

But, in fact, I thought if I could speak to that in some way, I'm trying to figure out a way to give you a feeling of that. But first let me come back. You were going to say something. I'm also coming from Rigpa and I'm open and just curious about also other aspects of Buddhism and lines of Buddhism. And I think there is also no contradiction that if I feel at home at Drukpa that I take part at other seminars.

[61:35]

Yeah. You mean these seminars or their seminars? Just anything outside of Drukpa. Great. Okay. And what I experienced here kind of confirms that I'm on the right way. Oh, that's good. Yes, in the back. Complete newcomer and I sat once or twice only. I had a concept and expectations about this seminar.

[62:51]

I expected we would sit more and I was surprised that you were teaching so much. But I think I also gave it time and I am glad that I gave myself the time, because many of the things you said touched me pleasantly. And I think I can take a lot of things from it. I'm looking forward to it, I'm curious about it. So I was pleasantly touched by a lot what you said, and I gave myself time and space to receive that, and so I'm curious to go on with it and to practice.

[63:55]

Okay. The window's open. I mean, the door's open. It is open. But we are sitting all day long. And while there's no tradition much at all of guided meditation in Zen, there's an assumption in Zen of the evolution of consciousness. of consciousness, of awareness. So we don't want to give you a path which says, this is enlightenment, these are the steps to enlightenment. So Kirsi would say, each will have your own enlightenment. And that view assumes that consciousness is always different and the fruits of practice are always slightly different.

[65:11]

So we don't want to give you a map. So the map in a way is the posture. So we really emphasize a precise posture, almost acupuncture-precise posture. Once you develop the posture, you're pretty much uncorrected. When you develop an increasing sensitivity to observe without grasping, so while it's not a tradition to give guided meditation, It is a tradition to sometimes give lectures in zazen, during periods of zazen in the morning.

[66:24]

So in a way, that's what I'm doing all day, and you can sit as much as you want. You can't really say there's no sitting in the seminar. As the translator knows. Now, someone else who hasn't said anything. Now, don't look away. Why not you? Yes, what we would like to hear. It's the second time I'm with you, the first time I was in Johannesburg, and I feel well here because it seems to me that I can come, I be, and I go.

[67:35]

You can come and be here and not have to speak. I'm also allowed to speak. Yeah, all good. Okay, thank you. It was difficult for me to come because I have to make a lot of decisions. I arrived here and right at the beginning, when you do this metapher, first your soul goes through the door and then the feeling that it's like being at home.

[68:45]

And when I arrived and heard your mentioning first let your feelings go through the door or by your body, then I felt at home. I don't feel like a Buddhist and I'm not sure whether I want to become a Buddhist. But I do have a feeling that a lot of what you're saying I understand as a practical philosophy. So do I. Me too.

[69:53]

This is where I come from. I come from Philadelphia. And for me, it was very fruitful here. I was able to get into a constitution to make a lot of decisions. So it was very fruitful for me because just by the way I got into such a state that I could make a lot of decisions. That makes me happy. And I gladly will come back. Oh, okay. When you have some more decisions to make. Okay. Very beginning, then I asked. Yes. For me it's not essential anymore what the difference is between vipassana and Zen.

[71:14]

Not good. I don't know also whether I'm a Buddhist or want to become a Buddhist, but what I know is that in my everyday life I'm attentive, I'm mindful. Good, yeah. I think, of course, Theravada or Vipassana and Zen are very similar, but there's a somewhat different flavor. But the teaching and practice is really similar. Zen tends to take shamatha and vipassana and put them together, but still you can sort of separate them, look at them too.

[72:31]

But the idea to see everything at its place was very important for me. Thanks. I had actually expected to sit more. I had expected that. I also worked on Fridays in the morning. And when I arrived here, I couldn't really listen. But I was able to do it quite well for myself, that I tried to calm down for the first time, to sit and listen in between. Well, I was working until Friday afternoon. I couldn't come then. And when I arrived, I wasn't able yet completely to listen. But I gave myself time. And originally, I also expected a lot more sitting.

[73:49]

Would you have liked it if there was more sitting? Yes, a little bit. Yesterday I also noticed that I came here more often. Did you also understand what you said, that these are things that I feel or know when I am well with myself? So in the course of yesterday, I arrived here, and I did understand quite a lot, and I felt that what I'm really centered with, or well within me, that these are also experiences I have. No, good. Yeah, thank you.

[74:56]

So why don't we take a, I don't know, 15, 20 minute break, something like that. Then we'll come back for a short time and we'll end. So I'll ring the bell. Thank you for everyone speaking. Let me speak to this idea of original mind. I don't know what someone said in the seminar yesterday or I think yesterday, made me think I could say something about it.

[76:05]

I don't remember. I don't remember what it was, but it started me thinking, how do I speak about that? And there's an idea in Chinese literature, for instance, of the original heart of Japanese people. Which is expressed in their literature. But he doesn't mean some kind of beginnings of Japanese literature. He means something that's been both discovered and created. So he means that something like through the process of writers writing and influencing each other, they created a kind of voice or heart of Japanese literature.

[77:24]

Also discovered something that is been implicit in Japanese literature from the beginning. It's a little bit like maybe I could say a family of several generations, three or four generations. Let's imagine maybe an immigrant family that came to America. And they feel the couple of generations that made the decision to come to America. And maybe there's three or four generations in America now. And maybe a therapist would understand what I mean by this.

[78:35]

The family in the process of four or five generations has developed some kind of spirit that they say, this is the heart of our family, this is the spirit of our family. That's the original heart of our family. Or maybe you could say origin heart. So it's not so much emphasized as a beginning. but rather as a source. So you can see that maybe you can see that five generations ago there was something similar, but really it developed through the five generations.

[79:36]

And actually, in Asian families, even if you marry into a family, which has some generational tradition. At some point, the new wife is initiated into the original heart of the family. She's shown lineage papers and symbols of the family spirit and so forth. I didn't say photos, but that's all right. You see, that doesn't prove I know German.

[80:38]

I just know English photos. Yeah, and the new wife is supposed to meld the heart of her family with the heart of the new husband's family. And then she becomes part of this developing original heart. I think if you understand original mind that way, you don't get confused by some mind at the beginning that's already there that you uncover. It's an original potentiality maybe. But through practice we develop original mind. Okay.

[81:52]

To generate and develop original mind. Generate and develop original mind. Okay. That's just a little riff that was important to me. I don't know if it was useful to you. Okay. Norbert, would you say again what you wanted me to speak about in relationship to decision? My experience is that I make decisions when I have an intention to change something. But the realization of how it's actualized, that kind of is not conscious anymore.

[83:09]

A realization of how the decision is made or how the decision is then actualized after it's made? How then it is actualized. I mean, you make a decision, but you don't know how then it happens. Something like this. It's like the bending of a spoon. Somehow, sometimes it's better if you put it behind. I see. To sharply. Do you let Angela know what's going on? She comes home and the house is different. That's interesting. Most people often don't know how they made a decision, but they often know then how they actualize it. I mean, you make a decision and then you wait to see how you can actualize it or will actualize it. So do you think you make a decision, you make a decision and wait for it to be realized or how it can be realized?

[84:27]

Yes, so to speak, I go to a door where I make the decision consciously and then it's like I have to wait for it to be realized. But it doesn't unfold in my dream or my answer. So it's like I go to a door and I have made the decision... To open it. To open it, but then I wait. So I'm not opening it, but I wait that it happens that it opens. That sounds good to me. That sounds like past mind. So what's the question? The question is, why is there no, for me there is a lack of, there should be awareness of something. You mean ability to be aware and plan into the future? Not really, I can't, to see the process unfolding, what happens.

[85:31]

He wants to be aware of all the steps consciously. Not just the decision-making, but also how it gets realized. Well, if I listen to your words, the way you open the door is path-mind. If what your words mean, that you'd like then to know what the next steps are, that's not path mind. The sense of the path is always a sense of surprise. And the sense of the path is you actually don't know where you're going. And you have to be willing to not to go where you don't know where you're going. Otherwise no one would end up to be a Buddha. When you discover you're a Buddha, it's always a surprise.

[86:55]

Well, for a moment I was a Buddha. What a surprise! So it is a kind of acting in the dark. And Zen emphasizes light and a clear light experience. And a quality of clear light that's part of thinking, acting, etc., that's a little like the background of a dream. But more fundamentally, Zen emphasizes utter darkness. That you're really acting in utter darkness.

[87:59]

Like a person with no hearing, seeing anything. You just go forward without knowing, without your senses being able to lead you. This is a little bit like leading with your feeling and body before thinking. So I think you're right that intent is the key. But then you let the complexity of each moment unfold the intent rather than your thinking. You let the complexity of each moment unfold the intent rather than your thinking.

[89:11]

And that's not possible unless you trust the world. There has to be some kind of fundamental trust that that the complexity of each moment is the path. But then you can ask how in a world like what's just going on right now, this ugly face of the world, how do you trust the world? Well, I don't want to live in a world I can't trust.

[90:14]

So I'm going to trust it anyway. And only through trusting it can I expect a truthful response. Just the experience of being trusted can change you. I think of this very disturbed little boy who was always throwing rocks at the neighbors and everything like that. He was about five years old or six years, five years old probably. And I was with a friend of mine, and we were walking down this street in a residential neighborhood. And this little kid was standing and just throwing pebbles and rocks at us.

[91:27]

And it's kind of a nuisance, and the rocks are sometimes kind of big. So we walked about, you know, 15 meters. And my friend suddenly just turned around, got down on his knees, and put his arms out like this at the boy. And the boy stood there and looked and paused and ran right into his arms. So it's worth trusting, I think. But you also have to, in addition to trusting the world and the way, and that's central to all of these Asian teachings, trusting the way,

[92:47]

is you have to be willing to change. You have to be willing to accept the consequences of intent. And you may end up with a life that's not predicted by your childhood or predicted by your culture. Or predicted by your family. But it's not, Buddhist practice is not a flight from reality or society. But it's a going forth in society and in the world. Going forth on the basis of your society and your own experience. But you may go forth where your society has not yet gone.

[94:10]

Which is not the same as separating yourself from society. Although a certain kind of renunciation is necessary for practice. Sometimes we say,

[94:32]

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