Now I thought it might be useful for all of us to be able to compare better those two approaches, south-north and east-west, let's call it that way. And since we might have gotten out a little of contact and people may not have present in their minds enough how we got to the, now let's call it the east-west approach and the last plan that Father David and I thought it might be good for him tonight to just explain the whole thing again in his context, the reasons and so on.

[01:08]

And then people should make notes and then later on I think instead of a discussion, you know, which here and there seems to tend to get a little heated, to write down things, you know, write down quietly and formulate, say, objections or difficulties which may come. But it would be also good, I think, for everyone to take some notes and to keep track for what are the reasons why God came to this arrangement and so on. Now, Father Dave, would you start with me now?

[02:08]

Oh, there is the... You shock it up a little. I don't know yet. But now, Fr. David, I will, for every one of your precious words, will be recorded. Be careful. Let me start with the Captatio Benevolentia. Oh, it's always good policy. Thank you for giving me this chance. to call to mind once again the plan that we have been developing and to thank the community for their patience to listen to it for I don't know how many years time but on the other hand it is not always really the same but it is developing And as we are restating the project and the plan, we are really calling to mind an achievement of community planning, an achievement of something that everybody has, to a certain extent, contributed.

[03:21]

And we are always apt, under the impact of new ideas and new things come up, to overlook the solutions that have already been reached. And we are always apt to ford for what is new, rather than... But what we have achieved is something very good, and I would like to point out the positive aspects of what has already been achieved today. And, of course, even the best is always subject to improvement, and this is why every one of us can still make suggestions and should make suggestions, as I've already said.

[04:24]

We should maybe distinguish in the whole approach three points which we could put maybe under the headings of the essentials under consideration, then the details of layout, and then thirdly, the stages in which we might proceed buildings. the new monastery. The essential considerations. Will you remember how we went through these various stages of preparation and pre-planning? Do you remember how we analyzed the site and the landscape features and the existing buildings and the weather conditions, the views, the sun, and so forth.

[05:41]

Then you remember how we spent some time on the circulation program, on the circulation that every monk goes through in the course of the day between the various elements of the building. how we try to avoid crossing between guests and monks and how a new type of people that have to use these buildings evolved, so to say, in our discussions, and that was the visitors, which formerly we had lumped with the guests and which we saw more and more clearly that they had to be distinguished from the guests and that very specific and different suggestions were made as to how they should approach the monastery and the chapel and so forth.

[06:45]

Then we made another subdivision within the group of guests into those that would be drawn more closely to the monastery and to the monastic life. to a certain extent, clergy guests, as Reverend Father has always pointed out, that the clergy guests should be in a closer contact with the community. Then, of course, again, this clergy group was subdivided into those who really virtually belonged to the community and wanted to share the life of the community, and those who would be most unhappy if they were confined to a quiet cloister. Father Kreeger said, why don't you talk about the bishop integrating parts of their visit to meet with one another and just talk and have a certain sort of social relation. So then I don't need to say anything about the subdivisions of

[07:49]

the monks, novices and those who might need special facilities because they are old and can't climb stairs anymore, the sick and so forth. In other words, we did focus very much on the different kinds of people that were to use the complex that was to be built. We did focus, as another point, on the existing facilities, not only on the landscape, on the views, so forth, but on the existing facilities of buildings and roads, and in particular those parts of buildings that had already been constructed with a special function, a permanent function, within the framework of the final monastery And I'm referring here particularly to St. Joseph's, which has been built as a guest house with 15 guest cells and a refectory and kitchen, which could be used as the guest refectory or at least as some assembly hall or so if you don't want to break it up into very small rooms altogether.

[09:07]

we should keep in mind that these basic considerations are very, very independent from the details of layout which we have considered. The basic considerations may find their expression in a multitude of layout proposals of very different suggestions for the architectural layout of the monastery may correspond to the same essential basic needs. And so we really all along gave much more consideration to these basic needs that would remain regardless of the architectural layout that would be adopted. and this was certainly the right way of first focusing on these things and then going on to some layout.

[10:17]

And also, of course, we did keep in mind all along the stages. Now, I'm a little bit handicapped today because I always like to draw things as I go on speaking, and it helps very much. On the other hand, We want to record this for many of the brethren who are not here. And if I do rely too much on the drawing, they will not get the benefit of it. So I will not be able to do completely without drawing some sketches on the blackboard where I will try to rely to a certain extent on the power of imagination. And also to express verbally whatever I'm going to talk. It is necessary to call to mind the already existing buildings and their position.

[11:20]

Because one of the basic assumptions that we made from the very beginning was, that at least St. Joseph's, which has been built for a purpose which it will always retain as a guest house, should be incorporated into the monastic complex, into the final building, in a place, in a relation that will befit the guest house. Also, we saw from experience of these past winters, and right now is a good season to refer to that, that the relation between the chapel and the guest house called for some sort of a covered walk, some sort of a way of communication. that would make it possible for people to get back and forth without having to go through the snow or without making it necessary for others to shovel past through the snow early in the morning and so forth.

[12:29]

Also, the roads, the roads of approach were of great importance for our planning and maybe we have given too much emphasis to the limitations which the location of the already existing buildings and the course of the already existing roads put on us. And we have had a sort of negative approach in looking at this, while we have often seen the things to which we are constrained by having these elements. But it would be good to remind ourselves that there are certain features in the already existing buildings, in their location, even in their relative position to one another, which are very, very desirable and very, very good. Now, one of them is the approach. The road that approaches the chapel is, as many people have said, just ideal.

[13:36]

It could not be more beautiful than the view that you get when you first come onto the monastery property right down there, and you get already the road pointing directly towards the chapel. also the proportion of the present chapter with relation to that to the landscape setting to the road and to the hill and so forth is very fortunate. Professor Elder when he was here the last time and he saw that chapter for the first time was very much impressed and said he would have never thought that a building as absolutely as small as our chapter is would be would be able to dominate relatively the scene as much as it does. And I bring this up for two reasons. First, because it seems that here we have something that we can really work with and that is very much worthwhile and that we should preserve.

[14:38]

And on the other hand, because would like to warn against anything that might spoil this. As it is now, this is something that is very good. And here we are back at one of the essential considerations, not only from the functional point of view, do we want to preserve whatever we have for poverty's sake, for instance, not build something new if we have these same facilities already existing and in very good working condition. But from the aesthetic point of view, we have very good opportunities already given, and we don't want to spoil them, and we want to make the best use of them. But this, of course, brings up another problem. We have, and we must just as frankly face that, buildings which are not aesthetically satisfactory for various reasons.

[15:40]

And the question arises, what is to be done with them? Are they to be neglected and ignored altogether? Well, if that were possible, one might say yes. but it does not seem possible. If these buildings were very far away, or if there were some other possibility of, say, leaving the buildings where they are, building the monastery, the permanent monastery in a different location. Well, then you could say, well, we just ignore what's there. But that does not seem to be the case. At least that was one of our basic assumptions when we developed this plan. that we should take advantage of what we have and take everything in, that it wouldn't be possible to eliminate something. It is just this whole plot here, this whole piece of property around the chapter I'm speaking of is like a canvas on which you have already certain things painted, and you cannot erase them.

[16:48]

in our circumstances, so you have to incorporate them in the final composition, but you can improve them. And we have given much thought to the possibilities of improving the looks, and what I'm now concerned with, of course, as you already list, is St. Joseph's, particularly the west front and the east front, which could with very little expense and very truthfully, I think, be improved in looks very much and incorporated into the whole. We have then the chapel. as one of these fixed points that we cannot change anymore. And we have St. Joseph's and St. Peter's. Now, St.

[17:50]

Peter's, according to the latest state of developments, It does not have to be countered with too much. Maybe we have given too much emphasis on retaining St. Peter's. There was, at least on my part, and maybe on the part of some of the others of the playwrights, a strong emotional attachment to at least the stone part of it, because it was the first monster and so forth. But André von Falle said, well, maybe the stone part will be retained. But in general, it seems that not too much emphasis has to be placed on that. Well, at least for the moment it serves, and it will serve us for a number of years, but it has great difficulties. It is not well insulated and so forth, presents problems. But St. Joseph's is certainly something that will be retained, and we have the farm, which of course will remain, and is a very important complex and very dominating.

[18:58]

Now, as I said in the beginning, we have been focusing on that very much in seeing the limitations that it imposes on us. I would like to try now and point out the positive points. One of them, as I have already mentioned, is that the chapel is really in a position where from the road of approach it dominates the scene and is just right where it belongs. The group of buildings St. Joseph's and St. Peter's together with that group of trees, our present garden here, the linen tree and these other big trees, the only real big trees that we have in close connection with the buildings. There's also very beautiful from a distance. You all remember the view that you get for instance from all the fields to the east looking over towards the chapel where you have the spire of the chapel rising out of this complex.

[20:08]

You have in summer and in winter at any time really you have this group of trees very dominating there because there are a few trees around. It gives a nice picture and it gives a sort of closed impression. It is a nice compact group there. So even if we think of removing St. Peter sooner or later, one could always put another building there to retain this beautiful little group of buildings there. And it is not only from the east, but from any other position, as group, saying nothing about the details of the buildings, but just as group, it's a little complex, it is very nice. And also, And with very little effort, the trees that are very close together could be closed in by a wall or some nice fence or so.

[21:13]

And this could become a closed garden. And then, of course, I don't even have to remind you that the biggest part of this little complex is already guest house, has already been built with the explicit intention of providing the quarters for the guests in the future. So we have something there to work with. And then also the farm is turned out, at least from the sides from which you get to see much of it, actually really from almost our size, to be very handsome and to fit in very nicely. And it is not, what we were afraid, dominating the chapel in any way, although it is very big. And it emphasizes something which seems important in connection with the plan that we worked out, and that is the east-west horizontal line. As you come up and you look from St. John's or even further down St.

[22:16]

James, you look... at this line of the bond, it is rather low and very strongly emphasized from the chapel over to the east, or from this group of trees and houses that is really in the center. On the west you have the chapel, and on the east you have the farm, and you have this strong emphasis of the east-west line there. Now, this was one of the points where we started our consideration. Clearly, this was, from the very first sessions, a key point of the discussion. Where should the pottery go? And also, now and then, we got weary of that discussion and said, well, let's forget about the pottery. This is not so very important. It must be retained that it is very important.

[23:19]

And the door is, the approach, the door is, in a certain sense, the most important thing of a house. And the portory and the entrance is, in the same sense, a very essential part of any building. And, of course, with the enclosure and all that, that a monastic building is, as in addition to other buildings, the pottery becomes all the more important. And here again, after much deliberation, we focused on the corner where the roads part as a suggested site for the pottery. And in the succeeding discussions, we always considered that as more or less a limitation that we had to put the pottery there willy-nilly because it's the last point at which all the roads can still be controlled, all the approaching roads can still be controlled by one point and so forth.

[24:34]

On the other hand, you could look at it in a very positive way and say that it is really amazing that this should be possible, that these various functions should coincide in one point through a layout that was really to a certain degree determined just by what happened haphazardly, but it is the first point at which anybody from the outside, the only point at which anybody from the outside reaches the monastery proper. It is this corner here is the point at which one comes in first contact with the monastery buildings, and now in a wider sense, of course, I mean to distinguish it from the guest houses. I guess it's down the hill in the old farm down there. It's the first point at which one hits the monastic buildings. And also, it is a spot which is within reach, within walking distance of the chapel, and which provides a good area for parking all around, really.

[25:49]

particularly to the east and southeast, southwest to a certain extent, provides a great deal of parking space. Now, an objection that was made against letting people stop there and then from there introducing them to the chapel, the visitors outside and so forth, was that they would have to work so far. But here, again, we focus on the difficulties and on things we're more or less forced to. Well, we are not really forced to because it has always been said that if somebody has to get closer to the driver by car, he can always drive up as close as he wants. But The general policy of letting people stop when they come fairly close to the object to which they are going, and then let them walk for the last bit of the way, that is certainly something which can be seen in a very positive way. This famous modern chapel in Arizona, which you all have seen, is built into the rocks with this big cross on the front.

[26:59]

It looks as if it were leaning into the rocks. But there, for instance, artificially, one has the approaches from the back. One has purposely, with no other reason but for the purpose of the approach, of giving this experience of approaching the chapel, one has made the parking lot quite a bit away, I would think at least as far away as our parking lot would be from the tramper, and on a lower level in order to let people get out of their car and get this experience of ascending to the mountain of the Lord. You see, it is something. And besides, of course, the route which was marked out here, over to this group of trees, of pine trees, and then straight up to the chapel, is a very beautiful route. In fact, one couldn't choose any other spot around here that would be, which on a short stretch, show more of the scenery and give them more an opportunity of walking up and seeing everything that's around and yet result in inconveniencing them.

[28:10]

So by doing this, by suggesting then that the pottery should be at the the southeast corner near the casa there, the southeast corner of the present little garden. And by letting the casa clock somewhere in this area, we have immediately gotten a number of other things that were desirable. We have gotten the approach to the chapel from the south without where you have this rising and so forth, or the nice approach, without getting a parking lot in front of the chapel. Because it is the most beautiful area, the most beautiful line of approach, yet if you leave the parking lot where it is now, the beauty of it is to a great extent destroyed by having all the cars there. we have also gotten the visitors separated from the guests.

[29:17]

The guests enter into the guest house there and the visitors never have to enter the monastery unless some business leads them there. Then, of course, it was only largely to join to the quarterly the offices and the parlors for those people that would just come for business to the monastery. And on the other hand, it is very logical to have the offices, the parlors, and the pottery in the guesthouse complex. Again, we got a small group of buildings there which are added to that little complex of which we spoke before with the trees which can be nicely fitted in and which give one group one element of the future monastery. This

[30:22]

The details that we suggested about that, for instance, how this portal should be linked to the presence of Joseph and so forth, this does not fall under the essential considerations. That is something that can be considered, for which many, many solutions can be suggested. But this somehow does belong to the to the essential considerations, to have the portrait in this particular spot and to have the offices and parlors close by it. Then you get this guest complex. Now, we have the connection between this guest complex and the chapel to consider, because that is a necessity too. For a long time, we spoke only of a covered walk, some sort of a covered walk there. But the more I have spoken to people about it, the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that it might be desirable to...

[31:33]

have this link not only a covered walk, but to incorporate this walk, cover it with this walk, the guest cells for the priest guests. It would remove them from the east location where we had them first. It would draw them closer to the monastery. It would make the extension of St. Joseph's lighter and... would less necessitate less extensive building in this area, and the portory offices, parlors, and underneath the garage, which we have in this area, which very well belongs there, would be plenty to justify a little wing there, which, by the way, doesn't have to be as big as it was shown in some of the plans. That is, again, a detail of layout. So you would get... the priest, a walk that runs from the chapel over to in the direction east towards St.

[32:40]

Joseph's and you would get the priest cells somehow along this walk facing south. Now I'm jumping a little bit right into this area that we have here to the north of that walk. And there we located two important buildings, two important elements of the monastery, the refectory and the chapter on the common road. And it does still seem to me that these three forms are sort of tired. the room in which all share in the liturgy, the room in which the guests and the monks share in the meal, and the room where the work is shared out. And so there is much meaning to an arrangement like that. And at the same time, the walk that leads from the chapel to the refectory can be led all around

[33:49]

and enclose this area here and make it, as we call it, a little paradise. It was even thought of having a well or some fountain and a stream of water running through it to really give it all the beauty that we can get into this area. And it is the mixed area, what we from the very beginning called the mixed area, because it comprises the three elements that are used jointly by the monks and by the guests, and that is surrounded on three sides, north, south, and east, by a walk that could be used as a processional walk, and that is also used both by guests and by the monks. Now we have the guest area and the mixed area, and you are very well familiar with that point of it, that the kitchen and service area forms a sort of link between the guest area and the mixed area, where partly it is already located and partly it will fit very well,

[35:06]

and facilitate things correctly. And we have then the whole service area in one very small complex together, easily reached by a road approach, which is the whole already existing. We have the heating, plumbing, coal storage, if you want, or other fuel storage right in this area. And it's practically all there. Very little has to be done. So it is logically, if we have the guest area in the southeast corner, closest to the load of approach, in the least retired area, and then have the mixed area, extending between the guest area and the chapel, that we would put the monastic area in the spot behind the chapel, shielded by the mixed area from all that is going on with visitors and so forth in the southern, on the southern side of the chapel, and of course make it into a quadrangle as was always planned.

[36:16]

And it falls there precisely in the location which before ever making any of these considerations, we had already marked out as the ideal spot for the dormitory, the most quiet spot, the spot that would overlook, look down towards the north, overlook the woods there, and so forth. It falls right into the right space. And to the east of it, yeah, maybe I should go into the elements that would come in here, the sacristy, of course, behind the chapel, and the novitiate behind that. And the library, parallel to the sacristy and novitiate, is a rather important element in the middle of the monastery, so to say. This whole monastic quadrangle was thought to be two stories or one story in dorma so that art above, art around, would be the sleeping quarters.

[37:27]

The novitiate is downstairs on this most quiet and most remote corner at the sacristy then following. Upstairs there are just four sleeping areas on either side, and the bathrooms and the staircases in the corner, and each of these areas for ten monks. Down below, this area down below is already taken up, the wing extending to the north from the chapel is already taken up by the Rishid and the sacristy, and the three remaining wings, the eastern ring is the library, scriptorium, and these two rings downstairs, the ring south and north, can also be used as a scriptorium. They are right connected to the library, and there's also then room left for some special purpose cells.

[38:28]

Then there remains only the an additional cloister that would be smaller and would contain the sick bay and some cells for visiting guests, so visiting monks, I mean people that have special cells and are not members of the community, and an office for the abbot and for a visiting bishop or something like that. There remains one question open, and that is, where should the Easter night chapel go? Now, there are many possibilities, but one that was the last suggested, I think, by Gabriel, and which I had like very much, and I know that other members of the community were much in favor of it, was to put it close to the route where the visitors come up so that the visitors would be able to enter it and wouldn't have to go into the monastery at all anywhere else.

[39:34]

So very near or at the site of the present St. Peter's would be a good spot for it. and since Rampal says it would be one of the last points on the cultural building anyway, maybe by that time the space of St. Peter's has already been evacuated and room has been made. If this is so, then the the court or in front of the chapel, then wins a great possibility, because by connecting very, very simply the chapel with the monastery copper, which is, of course, a close complex, which here we have been thinking of giving the shape of a square, which would be also nice, half divided and again half divided,

[40:36]

So the area in front of the chapel would certainly be very much beautified, and the west front of St. Joseph's would be greatly improved. Now that we have this plan before us to a certain extent, it might be important to note that we did keep in mind, or I must say I did keep in mind, because this was not discussed much only with individuals, not publicly, the idea of the stages in which the thing would be built. There was no reason and really no justification in discussing that publicly because first we must know what we want to build before we can decide in what stages we are going to build it. On the other hand, it is necessary to keep this in mind because it's just also an important consideration.

[41:41]

But this plan, having clearly divided elements, lends itself very well to being built in stages. And one idea that I had, it seems to me that we might be able to do more than that as the first stage, was that by simply adding the pottery, the offices, and the parlor to the present St. Joseph's-St. Peter's complex, and by giving St. Joseph's a little extension that would... would go over the whole west front and contain an extension to the present small library, one could at the same time improve the west front, which is nice because it looks to the church, and on the other hand,

[42:44]

have already a completely working monastery, a complex which will in the future be the guest house, the guest complex, and would for a certain time be the monastery area. is not an essential part of the plan, because even if you neglect this stage business altogether and consider that the whole thing would be built in one process, or be built at once, which is certainly not possible from many points of view, I think, but regardless how much would be built at once, the stages might be desirable, but I think that the consideration of the stages has not influenced the general layout to such an extent that the thing would stand and fall with it. On the contrary, if you would tell me, forget completely about the stages, we're going to build it all at once, I would not know offhand what to suggest as a change in it.

[43:58]

The only thing that I would like to refer to before finishing is what has been called in the introduction, the East approach. Now it is true that at one stage we were thinking of leading the whole traffic up to the area of the present farm somehow, and then bringing the guests in from the East. However, for many reasons in the course of the discussion, this has clearly been eliminated. For once, the farmers didn't want anybody getting up there so close to the farm. Also, there was a negative reason, but a positive reason is that really the approach from the south is very beautiful. And that opening up this southern area here to the visitors could be very beautiful. I have taken some photographs, which I'll put on the table here afterwards, and which

[45:09]

or to Mars, but that show some aspects from the south. It shows, for instance, how beautifully the chapel comes out over the hill. If you just walk a few steps down towards the little Apricela, then the Apricela area with the stone wall around it itself would lend itself very well, with the slightest amount of landscaping, to making this very nice an area for visitors, and would bring them completely away from the monastery. And still a little ways further down, you have a pond which reflects the chapel and reflects the buildings here, and which goes almost unnoticed. I'm almost sure it has even a weeping willow there. So, the East approach really has given up. Well, the only thing that might be said for an East approach is that certainly there will be some sort of a hall... I pray, Father David, not that you waste...

[46:42]

When I sit, you know, I just try to characterize the two things. Yes, I know. And the other, the East-West, you know. I didn't say East approach, but East-West orientation. Yes, but there is still a possibility of using the East approach, because the road will always make a loop here and go out again the service route, and there's no reason why this could not be, would be some landscaped area anywhere and rather nice, I hope, why this could not be at some occasions made the approach to somebody who comes explicitly to the monastery. It would certainly be an impressive approach if you come with a few steps up here and enter this courtyard with made all around, it could be very nice. On the other hand, if a bishop or a prelate should be received by the whole community or the whole community should say goodbye, the area in front of the chapel would also lend itself very well.

[47:51]

In other words, we just have two possibilities really to choose from. And I hope I have not forgotten to mention anything that was a burning question for somebody, but while the details of the layout are still completely open to question and the stages of the building are of course completely up in the air, I think we must be very grateful, and I'm certainly grateful to everybody of the community, that we have arrived at some considerations and some clarifications of concepts that are very valuable, and while, as I said in the beginning, it's always subject to further improvement, we do well in holding on to what we have already, and

[48:51]

developing it and coming back to it for 11 months if we think we have found a better solution for all kinds of things. Thank you. Thank you very much. think about it, formulate difficulties or objections or suggestions, you know, and it always seems to me the best thing to do that with those cards, you know, who they are there, you know, and not to write a head on it but leave that, you know, to Father David and Father Luke who would fire them, water them, put them, write it on there.

[49:54]

And also that other people may, at their own convenience in any time, any moment they have the time, for example, go through it so that it's accessible to the members of the community so that the members get an idea of what the other one his thinking, what he has suggested, and maybe his suggestion again, a reaction. I could think that in this way too much useful thinking could be done, and at the same time crystallize in such a way that it is accessible to all of us. And I think that's one of the ways in which we can ensure the organic thinking in this. I think it's, as time goes on, my hopes that we can really start anything this year are getting slimmer and slimmer because, as you know, if one wants, one has to start in May or June and we just, we don't want to start before we know what we want, before the whole

[51:09]

opinion and the conviction of the community has crystallized and they say now this is it.

[51:16]

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