Josephinism as the movement through which official duties say like the teaching or parochial work in the service of the church and of the public became a real integral part of the whole monastic setup of such a community. I think that what Joseph II imposed there upon the Austrian monasteries and also the Hungarians, I understand that was extended to the Bavarian monasteries. From the Bavarian monasteries also came to the USA, in a certain way also to Brazil, South America. that Joseph II really did something new, brought about a new development, and that is just this, that somehow the monks become the officials of a public institute, teaching, or as in Austria, they get parishes assigned.

[01:24]

And that is an essential integral element of their life, gives them their justification. Therefore, the type of monk which is developed, let's say, is to a great extent the type of an official, trained for his function and so on. Then there is another group, and that we call the neutriti. That would be those who, and that's very evident, I mean, this type is constituted by the Italians very strongly, also by the Spaniards, to a certain extent also by the Swiss. Those are monasteries who have a relatively unbroken tradition to pre-Napoleonic monasticism.

[02:34]

And as it existed in the Latin countries. And we have it in the rule. We have it just in today's chapter. These two ways of recruitment. One is that of conversion. entering into the monastic state of an adult who comes from the world and changes his mind changes his life and becomes a monk and others who are under the protective custody of the monastic education and are reared and brought up in the monastic precincts. They wear a kind of tunic from when they are 10 years old or so and grow up in this environment.

[03:36]

And then finally, not all, but a good percentage of them become monks. And that is the way in which the recruitment is done to a great extent in Italy and in Spain. The Italian monasteries seem in some way to continue their existence, also to a certain extent the Spaniards, on that basis. And that, of course, produces a certain type, again, of Locke, who lives in the tradition into which he has been formed when he was still young. It's an essentially unproblematic character, and things are taken as understood and accepted and are continued in that way but the attention in Monte Cassino visiting Monte Cassino you can see that just as Saint Benedict describes it today in the rule they all sit there on these

[04:54]

tables in the refectory according strictly also to their age down to the little boys you know the refectory so then distinguish from them the conversi the conversi would be mostly those who they have taken apart and are based on the monastic revival delivered from monastic resurvival, not a continuation of a tradition as in Italy and also in Spain to a certain extent, but a revival brought about by Abbot Guiranger or by Pierre Muir, and honorably to the right, Mauro di Volta, Placid Molta, that would be Solem and Borgo. and naturally this group of the conversi, for them the monastic life is a value in itself, is a thing which therefore has that contemplative character, not active character, contemplative character in the sense

[06:17]

that there is no external specific work which would justify their existence. Then there are now these three groups, of course, we saw that last time, don't describe the role of these various shades that are there in this Benedictine Confederation, but there are, for example, the English, and they have a distinct, very distinct character of their own. They have a spirituality of their own, a spirituality which goes back to the 17th century. France certainly had a great influence there in the 17th century, naturally, because that was the time when there were struggling or reestablishing themselves.

[07:21]

Also, maybe a certain Spanish influence is there. In other words, it's that they are, in a special way, open to the mysticism, mystic movements, as we had them in France in the 17th century and in Spain in the 16th century. English is always more for the experiencia, you know, interna. So there is a distinct spirituality there. at the same time there is a high intellectual standards high intellectual standards they the representatives of the English congregation see that the habits they are gentle and then there comes another big group that are the Theodotillian congregation now that is a missionary congregation therefore an active congregation but they have their roots in the Boironese movement they come they're founded by a father of Boiron and therefore have

[08:47]

certain characteristics also of that monasticism monastic revival of the Guéranger and Frau Roswalter time and type but as one can also see right away in the certain difference between Solemn and the Guaronese congregation so even stronger in the Otilian congregation the active the activity which is part of the Germanic temperament you know is more pronounced in these congregations Now, maybe another question is that in this monastic scene there of the Congress, the question of certain personalities, where they are, in which way were the outstanding or leading personalities in this group, in this Congress.

[09:53]

Now, there is one very outstanding personality sitting right here at the... Is it the right or the left? I never noticed. The left of the abbot on the right is the abbot of Monte Cassino, and at the left is the abbot of St. Peter's Abdi in Transvaal, South Africa. I think he's a bishop, as the abbot of Monte Cassino is too. But the abbot of St. Peter's Abdi a huge man of direction, and he fell into everybody's eyes, but he was not a leading figure, for that matter, and even today I don't know which group that strictly belongs to.

[10:56]

It was evident right at the beginning of the Congress that the presidents of the congregations would play a rather prominent part in the congress because the presidents formed a kind of committee they met already earlier in advance before the other abbots came and right away there were changes in the program of the congress and that was evidently due to the influence of the presidents. these presidents were really the leading men in the Congress and they were a great deal of activity and of intervention comes to the account of the average president of the English congregation

[12:01]

That is Abbot Byrne, isn't it? Abbot Byrne, he is there, he is on this side. He is like the third on the right of the Abbot Pyment. Then next to him, there is first is the Abbot of St. Paul, then there is, he was also a bishop, then comes Abbot Byrne, and then comes the president of the Basilian, congregation, and then comes the Abbot of Sollem. And on the other side is Beno Gutt, who was the president of the Swiss congregation. Next to him is Stephen Schapler. He is the president of the Swiss-American. And then Celeste Guzzi, who is the Abbot General. just newly elected Abbot General of the Subiaco, the Congregation of Subiaco, and then there is the Abbot of Nuremberg as the President of the Bavarian, that is Abbot Bernard Durst, and then comes Abbot Strittmatter of the American Cassianese Congregation,

[13:20]

And then there's the Barbarian, and then the Austrian, and then the Ottilian, and then Mauritsen. That are the people, if you want to look at it, you know. So these men were the, let's say, the leading, you know, personalities in the Hill, and certainly Abbott Byrne. Abbott Byrne had the great advantage of being very well versed in Latin, which was not a common virtue among the Africans. See, you understand. It's very visible. It's the decline of Latin people in the highest ecclesiastical circles. But Harold Byrne had a great facility in Latin and was also a great diplomat and knew how to express himself very well.

[14:27]

So he, in many cases, he really was an admirable man. He must be, I don't know how old he is. He must be in the 80s or so, you know. And he had a girl who was one who was up every morning for the first a series of masses, and then served in the second and the third series of masses, other movements, you know, see, there was the, there was, there was Albert Burke, he was a very, very, very impressive. Then, also, a great deal of work, you know, was done by Albert Strittmutter, of St Vincent. Now, Amrit Strittmutter is more his field, his finances. Amrit essentially had a very important role because they were the finances of San Anselmo, you know, because that was one of the concrete things that had to be decided upon and so on.

[15:32]

He stayed even for an entire week after the Congress, trying to get into the mysteries of the bookkeeping of Shandansen, but after a week-incessant attempt, he gave up. Really, he stayed in the house the entire week, didn't move from his cell and had all these books there, but it evidently was a very hard job. And then was Albert Stephen Chapler, who also, from Conception Avenue, was a... These men have, how to say, business sense, you know. I mean, there is an ability to make the opinions and so on of such a Congress concrete and put them into form and also into action. It also was evident right from the beginning that the abbot of Einsiedeln, Benno Gut, had a great influence.

[16:40]

He, for the reason that also that he was, had been professor in St. Selma, and he had very good command of many languages, also of Latin, and therefore had really the most contacts among the other abbots and so right there in the beginning already one could see that that he was a much favored figure in the abbot's congress but there were others you know there was for example the abbot of Brazil who was up by here you know was an old elderly man, but he represents, you know, the real good Boironese traditions, you know, a very, very holy man, certainly not in an easy field. There was also the abbot of Rio, abbot Martin Michler, who was also the monk of Meeresheim originally,

[17:51]

and then when it was sent over because the Brazilian congregation was really founded by the Bolognese congregation who was at that time still united to the Belgian congregation and Herbert Michler had really put Rio de Janeiro that happy on the map. He had given it a new lease on life by establishing a close contact between the Abbey and the University, and in that way getting also many vocations for his monastery. So he is also an abbot of Lear's. also the president of the Europe Congress of the Religious of Brazil, and all these things. I mean, he's a man of distinction.

[18:54]

There was also the abbot of St. Ottilien, who was a... He's a great scholar. He's also still, even now, a professor at the University in Munich. that a very well-known scholar who has written many things on Benedictine history before, and also a man who, let's say, drew the confidence of others, was the abbot Goethe of Downsign, also a man of... Then, of course, you have others. You have the abbot of Saint-André and the one also of Mont-César. Both were, of course, the abbot of Mont-César.

[19:58]

But Doron was especially leading in liturgical questions. He is the head of the liturgical commission. And so he had an important function there because the decisions, or one cannot say decisions, but rather petitions of the liturgical commission were prepared by him and were then voted on by the abbots. And also in that commission, the abbot Gabriel Tissot of Quar Abbey he is working and he has especially as he works in the field of the reform of our leccionario the lessons especially the lessons for for example for Lent the Lenten season and also a you know breaking with this principle of course of the initia you know and just some things that are rather let's say unsatisfactory in the present breviary than the question of

[21:14]

For example, lessons after, in the period after Easter, instead of the Lectio Bravis, which was ventilated. And then, especially the Lenten lessons, because, as you know, we have today, we have the homilies of the fathers all during Lent, and that, of course, pushes the... exodus and the reading of the books that were originally assigned for them very much in the background. That is a question which Albert Gabriel Tissot has given much time and study to it and made his final suggestions just to arrive the other day. So those abbots is also the abbot of Montserrat, Aurelius.

[22:26]

He did not appear very much, I mean, in the foreground. I think that his man, so to speak, is the Abbot General, Sebastian Guzzi, the newly elected Abbot General. He is the successor of the Abbot Caronte, who had, of course, had a great influence under Pius XII. for example, the Encyclical Mediator Dei. But Abbott Goose, he was just new in his office, and so he was also kind of reserved. He didn't expose himself in any direction, but he was also one of the candidates for the Abbott Prize. materialize naturally.

[23:30]

And another one who also has a certain place and a certain role is the amateur San Girolamo. What was his name? He is originally a monk of Clairvaux, but of course, on account of his contacts in Rome and also his studies of very decided opinions, and also, I mean, working in these commissions, liturgical commissions. Now, as far as our problem went, you see, the thing was, had been arranged, you know, first that the question of the monks, non-priests was there, put, you know, very prominently at the head of the agenda.

[24:39]

Now, that was one of the points which did not suit the Presidents, because they found that that was not a problem which was very burning in the majority. However, it was decided that the first session, which was an afternoon, session should be on this subject, however in a different way than what I had anticipated. According to the program it was thought that in the afternoon the abbots would meet and just those abbots who would be interested in this Christian and would then have an opportunity to kind of get in contact with one another and just see what is being done in this field in various monasteries. And then the next morning, a full session had been suggested, was on the program.

[25:47]

And in the full session, then one would have formal talks in which this question was then kind of more systematically proposed to the gremium of the adults in a full session now that was changed instead of that one kept the afternoon session and in this afternoon session then and that came only about the moment in which at the moment in which this afternoon session went off the, let's say, more formal statements that had been planned for the next morning should already be made. And now that puts, of course, put all those who were involved in that a little on the spot, and in some way, of course, spoiled things to a certain extent.

[26:51]

It was the first who had been assigned was the abbot of Marzou. And in the, as it was, as we were told, it was sufficient if a short summary of the talk would be in Latin, but the talk itself could be done in any language, either English, or French, or Italian, or also Latin. And so I had written my little relazio there in English, and it was all prepared. And then the abbot of Marzou had written his in French. And then he was the first. The idea was, you know, that whoever used another language but Latin would have an interpreter. As interpreter, a Hungarian would function.

[27:54]

Who would then? Father, who is it? Hmm? Bekis. Gerald Bekis. Gerald Bekis would function. Now, Gerald Bekis has a great facility in languages. That is true. But when the Abbot of Nardzou started shooting off, you know, he's French, and he's a very lively man, and very, very vigorous, you know, vigorous man, and then he started off in French, and Gabriel Beckes could not keep pace with it, you know, and there was immediately, it was evident, this will never work, one cannot do it that way because really the abbot spoke in French and it just didn't go over because a great part of the Congress didn't understand then the interpretation of the process which was much too

[29:07]

too ponderous, you know, I mean, too impractical, you see, really, to do it, you know. So it was there decided on the spot that this wouldn't work, you know, and that was decided at the moment when I got on the catwalk, and practically the second man who addressed this Congress, you know. and I had my English thing there, and the avid pilot said, you know, how to do it in English, you know, how to do it in Latin, you see, so there I was. You can imagine, you see, it was not an easy situation to begin with, you know, to stand there in front, and then this whole room, you see, was a former recreation room, and they had divided it up, and they had all the seats of the Italian Senate, you know, where, of course, they had I think the cellar had gotten them for nothing, because the Senate for some reason desired to have seats, you know, and therefore they had all these things all round and then all ascending, you see, steep, you know.

[30:16]

So those who were up there could never understand what the man down here said. And both sides, people there could never see the man. And so it was a rather a situation. There was a microphone, you know, but it wasn't out of bounds. We had never been accustomed to talking to a microphone. He didn't hold it right. That was Abbott's calamity. So that his thing really was a kind of... flop externally. So there I came at a critical moment, you know. So the question was being discussed there on the platform, now in what language have I to speak? And I said, I prepared it in English.

[31:18]

Oh, you can't talk in English. So, I mean, if you are not accustomed, you know, to speak, I mean, Latin now, you must think on this trip I had got accustomed a little to French again, you know, because being in France and being in Morocco, you get the To me, it's always a matter of breathing in, you know, I mean, what you hear, what it's about. In France, in Paris, French just floats in the air. Speak that way, but there was no Latin floating in that. I think the Latin wasn't a real salvation, but anyhow the Latin extended and had a larger audience than the French or maybe the English would have had.

[32:22]

So at that moment it was decided that Latin would be the language also for the talks. So there I was with this thing. Now, I did my best, and I had one thing in my favor, and it was that every abbot could see my plight, you know, see, and so at least those were sympathizing, you see, there was a sympathetic, at least, taxpayer, you know, and so I tried to, just because it was impossible, I couldn't follow what I had there, you know, in trying to to translate the English into Latin at that moment. I just had to pick up what was in my head, you know, and put that into Latin. But there I had to rap for words, you know, write and lip it, you know. How's this one? I think when it was over, it was a great applause, but I think it was an applause of relief.

[33:41]

But what I proposed, of course, I simply explained the way in which we had done it here. Because the question in this role, which is also the Abbot of Martu, there was always the question of... I mean, the way in which it was presented to the Abbot's Congress first, also by the Abbot of Martu, was the addition of a third class to the already existing three classes, you see. and then of course had people rather nervous you know because the abbots thought that they had already quite a complicated system with the two you know classes and they didn't think I mean instinctively that the addition of a third one would be a great contribution you see I mean to you know to the monastic cause

[34:52]

and therefore it was my point you know and also the reason for my report there was to bring out the idea that right from the beginning you see the differences of any kind are not emphasized Absolutely, that is right from the beginning, because the question is, and that was also still, of course, in the, of course, the Abbot of Nassau is completely in favor of other things, but I mean, the system which is there for it is that at the beginning, when one enters, you know, then he decides, does he want to become a, a brother? Does he become a priest monk? Does he want to become a lay choir monk? And my whole point was, you know, that that question should not be the basis, you know, and already decided before the Adra monastic life begins.

[36:02]

but the monastic life should begin as monastic life and then you know the Christian for example that of the priest monk should out of that should then slowly develop and should be decided in the course of the monastic life monastic purpose so that one novitiate you know was one of our main things and together too during the whole year during the whole time triennial and that was an important point for me which I brought out and the other one was too that as a result of it the studies for the priesthood you know if you have a brother novitiate and you have a choir novitiate then the brother novitiate ends in manual labor and the choir novitiate would end in the priesthood might be lucky as a matter of fact but that would not be the case and of course as a result the prevailing in common system that after the novitiate the studies begin

[37:18]

that would be a principle which would be broken, you see, and that, after the novitiate, the studies may be again, you see, may not again, depending on the individual situation, on the spiritual development, on the needs of the whole, and so on. Considerations, sir. And therefore, those things are received by various groups in completely various ways. Everybody sees that in the context of his own needs. That is one thing that, of course, you see that immediately. Every abbot is at this Congress as the abbot of his abbey, first of all. and therefore he sees the needs of his army and that is then for him naturally is for him for his own action is the line and the direction however I must say that the first of all the interest

[38:28]

The common interest of the abbots in this question was absolutely clear. There was a great interest for this. Why? Because for various reasons and also in various degrees. There are certain abbeys, as for example the St. Nautilian abbeys. where this problem is settled, you know, and is settled in a way which results from their workings as a missionary. A missionary, of course, has to be a priest. If he's not a priest, he cannot be a missionary. Therefore, the priest monk is the missionary, and therefore he is the real, let us say, the real monk. While then he has the brothers, but he has these brothers as cooperatores. They are the ones who work with him, who help with him in certain functions, in the missions.

[39:35]

because you have to build mission churches, you have to build mission stations, you have to organize materially the material foundations of a mission. For all these things, of course, the brothers are indispensable, but in their way and in their field. And for that matter, there is a flourishing the brother institution in the in Münster-Schwarzer or St. Euterion. Plenty of vocations, you know, for that. Why? Because the brothers know that they enter the monastery and they are going to do a contribution to the life of the church in the missions in that way as architects or as craftsmen or as bookkeepers or whatever it is. And that's it, you see. And there they do. And therefore, there is a clear situation, you see. And that is, and they do all.

[40:37]

And they make a clear distinction, you see. The monks, the priests are the monks. And the brothers are helpers, . But they do not, for that matter, they would not think of letting them take . that doesn't fit into that concept. So I only want to say that every abbey and every setup is different. And of course also the social conditions in various countries are different. In Europe and so on are still strong distinctions of education level and therefore to become a brother is there a way in which the uneducated man can take part in the monastic life who otherwise would not have a chance monastic life and therefore to them in many cases the brothers our way through which the monastic form of life in some way is made accessible to the

[41:52]

to the poorer classes, peasants and farmers or workingmen and so on. Not many workingmen entering as brothers, but I mean farmers and farmers' sons. Boyron has a big number of vocations for the Brotherhood, all come from the country, from these little farms there in slavia good catholic tradition good catholic spirit in the village influence of the pastor all that is there boron is a pilgrim a pilgrim place, you know, where all Swabia comes together, and so it's sort of like that. It's the life of a brother there is his way of participating in the monastic life. And if one would abolish that, one would simply, under the present circumstances and with the office in Latin, simply close the door completely to the monastic life.

[42:59]

too many who otherwise in this form enter so i mean there is the the questions are different however naturally there are also the problems there is no no doubt about it but about that Mrs. Brody goes to the hospital on December 27th for an operation and she asks for our prayers. Blessed is our God at all times now and always and

[43:42]

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