on our own monastic life and ways and aspects which really are derived from the impressions on the Congress of the Arts in Rome. To now we haven't spoken about that really and needed a little time to kind of digest these impressions and then to make them fruitful somehow also for our own. That, of course, is the main point in these conferences. Now, it was very evident in this gathering of about 150 herbert's empires from monasteries all over the world also europe also many naturally from north america south america brazil and australia also asia was represented

[01:49]

Vietnam, and England, and so on. So these, one could right away see that there are, let us say, two general groups, and what I say you are familiar with, just to bring it to mind again, that was Jean Leclerc in his book on the Yeah, that one distinguishes the end, benedictum one and benedicta religio. Monk benedictus and benedictum religious. Now, that's an attempt, you know, to kind of bring it on to a formula. If one looks at the benedictum religious first,

[02:58]

represented externally mostly by the Ossians and the Bavarians may be more strongly and most clearly by the Ossians and the Bavarians. They stress the needs of the church in our days. They feel that it is their bounden duty to help, to help in the present apostolic needs. And mostly in parish work and in educational work. And that is this, I think it's In fact, one must keep clearly in mind that the Bavarians and the Austrians and also the Hungarians, for that matter, have a distinct feature in this, that they all were formed by the, what we call, Josephinism.

[04:29]

Josephinism, you know, is a system originated, maybe not only originated, but under the emperor, by the emperor Joseph II, the son of Maria Theresia in Vienna, who was emperor from 1765 to 1790. And this Joseph II was a very unruly man. little fellow and gave Maria Theresia many headaches. Nobody could really get control of him. Every means of the time were used on his dear mother to try to frighten him with the spirit world. anymore, she turned to the Jesuits to train him.

[05:37]

But the strong, you see, appeal to the supernatural motive just didn't gain any ground on the contrary. They were on sale. catch his imagination while on the other hand the material things all these problems of the welfare of the people the legal problems of the enlightenment and the economical problems new ideas how to bring about greater degree

[06:38]

of material welfare, all these things were strongly to his taste. He also, I think, lived a little under the shadow of Frederick the Great, and of course resenting Frederick the Great's victories and seeing the great success of civilization say of northern protestant northern germany and comparing it unfavorably with the catholic south of germany he was a friend of voltaire and people like that so he tried to wake up in his people a new sense of say personal responsibility

[07:40]

believed in education, in knowledge, and so he was a strong adversary of the monastic life, which in his days was still immensely strong in Austria. But one also must say the monastic life of his days was languishing, stagnant. entering into Austria, one still has the feeling that there are too many monasteries left, at least for the present need, not for the needs, I mean, but for the present, for the number of occasions and so on. They have a terrific struggle to keep up their works and their monastic, their life

[08:50]

various stifts where I was visiting Erlach. It was right next to Erlach. There was one Premonstratenschen Stift, right about half an hour's drive from Erlach. Then about three quarters of an hour there was a Cistercian Stift. And then a little more there was an Augustinian Choir Cannon Stift. And Then there were also one, the only Trappist settlement was also in that corner. So all kinds of men who all live, if one looks at them from the outside, maybe also the inside, essentially live the same kind of life. They have their state revenues for their teaching and for their parish duties. That is the way Joseph II did it. He suppressed about 300 to 400 monasteries in Austria in his time.

[09:59]

And then what was left, he put in charge of parishes and schools. And then he endowed the monasteries accordingly and gave them the suppression of about 400 monasteries, provided the means for the so-called religious fund. pay salaries to those who would teach in the schools and do service in the parishes as pastors. So, the important thing, I think, of this reform is that through this Josephinism, as far as I can see for the first time and only time, say, in history, At that time, in the 18th century, the activity, the outside activity, parochial and educational work, became the very basis on which the entire existence of the monastery rested.

[11:09]

So that without that, the monastery would not exist, could not exist. The same thing was true later on. by the resurrected, among the resurrected barbarian monasteries, mittened first, and then others who were resurrected only under the condition, while we were the first, to teach. And without that, they would not have received their property, would not have restored to them. So there was a tremendous reaction, and one We don't live in those times, but I can imagine at this reaction. One thing is absolutely certain, and that is that the population was on the side of the emperor. The people considered that as a thing which was only right and just and served the welfare of the whole state, the public welfare.

[12:18]

And we one can understand that those monasteries were in times of old endowed with enormous endowments. Forests, even now, people are in monasteries like Admon, and also the little English cellar trap, this monastery, enormous forests. and therefore have great wealth there. But Joseph II, I mean, gave them that under the condition and for the maintenance of these public institutions. So that by that, naturally, all those who enter into this kind of setup, to them, the monastery is first of all a means of their social security.

[13:23]

That's the way in which they receive their income, in which their life is made possible. And these monks who live on various parishes outside also have their own. They have their own furniture and so on. They are transferred. They move with their furniture one to the other and so on. So therefore, I think that's very important that we realize that there the activity enters into, I'm going to say, into the very essence of that kind of stift life, monastic life, the very essence of it. And naturally, the rule as such has to be then needs. It's also very interesting to see, and that was very evident from talks with various abbots, the Congress, it's very interesting that in those countries in which Josephinism had this strong influence, up to this time, up to this day, the

[14:42]

monastic I mean strictly monastic vocation for example vocations through the brotherhood are very very scarce exceptional the reason is easy to see the whole mentality of Josephinism is education and working through education and education of course leads eventually necessary to the priesthood so that the priest is considered the to say the full religious who has a true raison d'etre while the brother who really in a much greater degree lives or has to live the monastic life for its own sake is considered as useless, as lost to society and to the needs of the times.

[15:45]

And that came out very clearly in various You see, this group, I might add, you know, this group of Austrians, Hungarians, Bavarians, with their strong, one can say, really very strongly active, and also maybe to a certain extent, although they are very, I mean, one shouldn't underestimate that, the individuals who have serve in these monasteries have a strong, a majority strong good piety, piety, but a piety which is a kind of inheritance from a good Catholic home, from a good Catholic parish and so on.

[16:58]

But it is not something which would find its essential and necessary expression in the monastic life as such. It's a life, it's a piety, which is nourished in devotions, and devotion to Our Lady, devotion to the Sacred Heart, the popular counter-reformed devotions, and the general spirit of the Baroque age. There are, there's a strongly... for that matter, strongly appealing to the sentiments, where, you know, the triumphant masses on feasts and so, there are these glowing churches. By the way, it's very interesting to see that after the war, these, many, many of these splendid

[17:59]

these ceilings and these pillars and these gold leaf baroque decorations you know were magnificent giving the impression of tremendous festive exuberant elegance and that is source of inspiration for this. It's a deliberately world-open spirit. The Baroque, I think you can see that very clearly, the Baroque is in many ways the Catholic way to react against the sternness and um of the of the gothic age the gothic age in comparison to the baroque is really a dark age these gothic churches are dark they have a certain stern note are the baroque that's all it's a feast and it's a wedding feast between the uh

[19:41]

the heavenly world and the earthly world. Very interesting was the church in Niederallteich, where the abbot Emanuel Holfelder established his monastery. And that was built by an abbot in the 18th century when Niederallteich celebrated its 1000th anniversary. thousand years of existence in 1760 or 1738. And there is a whole system of the correspondence between this world here and the heavenly world. For example, in the side isles, the side isles is kind of is molded into various chapels.

[20:47]

And each one of these chapels has a theme. And, for example, one of these chapels was authority. And in the lower region, each one of these chapels has a ceiling, but in this ceiling is a hole. All oval, you know, I mean the forms are always oval. Never a circle and never a rectangle, it's all like this. And then you look through this oval of this, I don't know what to call it, you know, it's a hole. This hole is surrounded by beautiful baroque iron, wrought iron, you know, beautiful rail, you know, and then through that rail you can see up in the ceiling on another level, and there is always, the baroque thing is always so, have abundance of lights but never see the windows, the sources of it, you know, and that's why I think it's a system.

[22:06]

Then you look through that, and then, of course, this upper story above the chapel has big windows, you know, lots of light coming in there. So you see there, and there you see then the Mother Church, and you see the Father as the hidden source of all authority in the heavenly world. And down in the chapel there is the crown of faith. way you know to kind of I think much can be said in favor of the Baroque but it's the way of the Baroque to show the sacramentality of the church but as a transparency as something that fuses into or leads to or opens up into the heavenly world of course it's all cloud

[23:11]

all the movements, you know, and der reigen der Freude. And so, therefore, the Baroque is in some way a representation of the church in her, let's say, eternal or supernatural trial over and beyond all the powers of this world. So, but done in a very, I'm going to say, not in the way of the Mysterium. I mean, the same principle, I mean, basic principle that you have in the Baroque, you have in some way or another in the catacombs. And the Baroque church in the catacombs is about the catacombs down there then we see of course we see there also the we see on one on one side we see the elegant and to say yeah elegant for example a room with walls painted like marble

[24:38]

Bowers, you see, bowers, you know, the whole thing there, a catacomb, the whole room there painted like a bower. That could be the Baroque age too, you know. They love to paint bowers. And with the little shepherd in it and so. But then, and so that is in the catacombs too. in order to represent the presence of the refrigerial, of that refreshment in which the soul lives after leaving this world in the peace of Christ. But then you have the ceiling, and up on the ceiling in the catacombs, then you see the heavenly world, you see the little putties, angels, you know, things like that.

[25:55]

So, I mean, that's true. Still, the difference, you know, is that the Baroque is much more an attempt at a direct, you know, sensible, or how is it, not sensible, but tangible realization, so that the one who is, who looks at it, you know, it's just like the music, you see. I mean, if you one moves in in exuberant music one kind of has the kingdom of heaven right on earth you know one doesn't know quite you know where it begins and where it ends man begins and man ends the spirit begins and the spirit ends you so i mean it's it's in some ways a kind of an ecstasy you know but can ecstasy of course apply to the masses you know i mean A church like that, in the Altai and so on, of course, they want the celebrating throne.

[26:56]

But the, so, I mean, there is that very strong, I'm going to say, I mean, this worldly attempt, you know, at this worldly representation of the power and the glory and the majesty of the mysterium of the church, of that heavenly power, element that eternal element in the church of the triumphant element in the church and so how did we get to this but that is that this world of the Josephinism in which also there that fusion you know of the imperial splendor and of that uh that ecclesiastical splendor you know the two they kind of fuse in a uh in a in a hymn you know god save the king and the uh for these monasteries by the way connected with

[28:57]

And part of the monastery is the imperial wing. For example, in San Florian, big monastery, but there's no essential difference whatsoever between the monastery and the royal palace, the imperial palace. Architecturally, the same. And if one walks in these long corridors, On one side, the monks live. On the other side, it's reserved for the court. But architecturally, it's the same thing. Only that, of course, where the court, the rooms for the court are there, aren't they? Of course, the room for audiences, receptions, and Mahamudzal, marble, hall and things like that, you know, in a more splendid way, but still, for example, the architectural unit of the emperor's rooms and of the monks' rooms is essentially the same.

[30:12]

So, for a very this-worldly attitude, Because the state, under Joseph II, the state was the custodian of the church. the idea of Saint Joseph. Saint Joseph, the cult of Saint Joseph. What is that? Saint Joseph is and Listering, and St.

[31:33]

Joseph has the care for the older worldly. St. Joseph II didn't trust that whole thing, you see, the economic side, but then also the education, I mean, and that, you see, the church has to serve the public welfare, as the one of his ministers, who was a little more liberal than he himself was, expressed it, you know, he said, as long as people They have to be directed by the police of the church.

[32:33]

The church is the police for a people which is still not enlightened enough. So therefore there is that strong this worldliness which is there, also the whole emphasis. And therefore the monks, you know, under the influence of this spirit, really became, because they were officials. They were officials of the state. They are up to now. There is a monk, an Austrian monk, most of them are Regierungsrat or so. as educators. So it's also interesting to know that this kind of thing, this strong fusion, I mean, not any fusion anymore, but this entering of the activity into the very fiber of the whole existence of such a

[33:55]

is a uh a thing which is uh the in the german germanic tribes there is then of course in austria to austria is a border thing you know that is a um many nations come together that is a in some way a colonial enterprise in its origin the germans common in as a colonizing force, and therefore as a ruling force, that brings with it a very strong also this worldliness. Anyone who lives in a colony, a colonist, must be, must become a this world man. One can see that so evidently, for example, in our days in Algiers. That is one thing that Edmond Michelet told me is one of the greatest difficulties at the present time of the example of elements, sincerely Catholic elements in the De Gaulle government.

[35:16]

They are faced with this colonial element in Algiers which just through the very struggle, you must always think these people have cultivated or gained the soil of Algiers and made it what it is through their own sweat, through enormous efforts, also through much shooting and fighting against enemies. And that, of course, produces just as in the United States the frontier mentality. It's also strong this worldly mentality as realistic mentality and a mentality which also wants to enjoy then the fruits of these tremendous efforts which they themselves or their fathers have put into the present prosperity that they have reached. So it's a very strong Germanic notion which is not so neither in Italy nor in Spain nor in France, not at the present time.

[36:26]

Bavaria and Austria, very strong. And as you know, from Bavaria it came to this country, to North America, which is also, as I said, a pioneer country. The monastery, monastic foundations were made in pioneer times for pioneer families. St. John's Abbey or Latrobe and these places where therefore they have a very strong I want to say discreetly notion to them one only must say that there is a difference between the Austrian and Bavarian attitudes we find them and for example here in this country let's say the American Cassini and that is this see that the while the Austrian tradition since the enlightenment is not essentially changed the mentality however here in these immigration countries you know is to a certain extent you see that took place in 1850 1848 1850 in these years

[37:51]

when the catholics came into this country and there was among them you see in the 1850s there had taken place what we call the catholic revival and this catholic revival is a strongly influenced we call it sometimes also the romantic age And this Romantic age is, for example, characterized, you know, by people like Schlegel. And there is a deliberate reaction against the rationalism of the Enlightenment period. And this Romantic reaction took a great hold of, let's say, the bourgeois, the Catholic bourgeois, population in Germany, in the Rhineland, and also in the Frankenland, in the Pfalz, in these countries.

[38:57]

And the immigrants, of course, came from these countries around that time here to this country, so that there is also, I'd say, a deliberate now, you know, under the guidance, inspiration greatly, for example, of Pio Nono. and all I have there, an enormous influence on the formation of this romantic, one can call it Catholic reaction against enlightenment. And that, of course, has also something to do with the spiritual attitude in the, for example, in the American Cassinese monasteries in this country. It is not simply enlightenment, and it is not simply this kind of harmony, even kind of continuity, if not identification of the state and an enlightened church.

[39:59]

But there is also a certain difference. There is a church which has been reawakened to her own existence and in opposition to the political forces under the leadership of Pius IX. And the definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception is a kind of banner for that kind of reassertion of the Church in her, how to say, supernatural claims and powers against this enlightenment mixing and mingling of state authority, church authority, and so on. So that is one. You see, another thing is, you know, that this, let us say, this Josephinism also had its influence, strong influence, indirectly, on what we today have in Brazil, you see, of monasticism.

[41:10]

in Brazil, mainly in Brazil, because that was strongly also under German influence, the reawakening of monasticism there. And so that is one group, you know, a strong group in the present Benedictine setup, and that was very clear at this Abbott's Congress. However, of course, that is not all. block, we have another. One couldn't call it a block, but it is more a group, and I kind of tentatively only say that, you know, according to maybe superficial impressions that I gathered, you know, during this gathering, this congress. There is, you know, in the old ages, I mean, even in the Holy Rule, I think you can see that there are, for St.

[42:15]

Benedict and the rule, there are two sources of vocations. One source of vocation in the rule, certainly the regular one, is through conversion. That means from the world, as St. Benedict himself, as a student, He is and enters the monastic life as a life of conversion and a life of penance. And then you have the other group, the other recruiting way of a monastery, and that is if parents bring their children to the monastery and offer them up at the altar. Now, St. Benedict said And based on these two, as you know, you have the two groups in medieval monasteries very strongly distinguished, the conversi and the nutriti. The nutriti are those who have been brought to the monasteries as little boys and have received their entire education in the monastery.

[43:26]

The conversi are those who have, before they enter the monastery, on everything but, let us say. Then the notriti, you see, are therefore boys who grow up in the monastic environment protected against the bad influences of the world. It's a system of protection, a system, let's say, of keeping the innocence. while the conversi are those who come to the monastery through their own personal conviction and through a break in their life, and therefore take the monastic life much more deliberately as a way of salvation. But both, in that way, both the Nutriti and the conversi, of course, agree that for them the monastic life is the haven which protects them against and saves them from the dangers of the world.

[44:38]

You see, that is, of course, a concept which, you see that right away, which in, let us say, roughly in a Josephinistic monastery is not very strong. the idea that the monastery is a haven against the evils of the world, because the world may not even be considered as such a tremendous evil. I don't think that Joseph II did tell that. The world is very well off under a good state, you know. The state can't take care of that. Therefore, they are much more in conformity with this world. But the others, there is an opposition there.

[45:40]

But then there are these two groups, and one can say, again, I say kind of roughly, you know, the, let us say, today in our days, the neutrity group and the neutrity spirit of protection against the world, you know. That is very strong in the Italian and in the Spanish monasteries. When we go to Monte Cassino, then you see there, there is that novice table right in the refectory. There is that novice table and at that novice table you see the, or you see them down in all taken with tremendous solemnity and with a voice with great self-assurance, taking part in all the monastic exercises, walking down two by two in groups, you know, these enormous corridors to their own quarters, and in choir, you know, having a place and singing, we'll go and chant.

[46:47]

And so that, you see there, the kind of vocation that goes there comes through the oblate school. And that is, for example, very strong in a monastery like Montserrat. You see, in these monasteries, and to a certain extent one can add to them the Swiss monasteries, where in Einsiedeln or Engelberg the school is an appendix to the monastery and the students wear the castle so they are therefore members of this little monks members of that family and that's the atmosphere in which they grow up and in Einsiedeln it's very strong if you have not been in the school of Einsiedeln Then to become an Einsiedelmonk is very difficult. Father Beat Reiser, who had not been to the Einsiedelgymnasium, always told me, he said, I come from Swabia, you see, but I tell you, I never really got into it, you know.

[48:03]

The others, you know, if you haven't been raised in Einsiedeln and you are not, you may do what you want, you'll never become a real Einsiedelmonk. So that is, you know, I only say that so that you may see what I mean with this rutriti group, you know. Don't tell that any 19th century monk. But I mean, there is. Therefore, you know, the monastic, you see, the monastic routine, just as, you know, if you grow into something, then the routine into which you grow is is unquestioned, you know. It has been this way for centuries. That is the way I've learned it when I was 12 years old, and that is the way it is. Finished. There are no problems. There are no problems. And one always said that, you know, and that was the tremendous difficulty in all monasteries with the new treating, you see.

[49:10]

They never made good abbots because they didn't know the problem. So that, for example, Cluny, I'm told, was really made great through the Conversi, not through the New Treaty. All the great abbots of Cluny, in fact, were Conversi. So I'll check that out at this moment. And that is true, you see. You have then another group, and they are the Conversi. Let's call them Conversi. And that is a strong, I have to say, that gives a certain character, for example, to the French monasteries and also the German, Rhineland, Boiron and so on. They are, that is based on the comparison. One can see that in France, certainly Cluny, the monastic movement was that way. The dispersion movement in France was that way.

[50:11]

the Trappist movement in France, that was all conversing. And today, you know, too, the French movement, and I would say the primitive, so what we call benedictness of this combination of subiaco, you know, and also the soleil. That is a conversing, let us say, spirit and atmosphere. And that, you see that right away. If somebody enters the monastery for that reason, let's put it roughly for the reason of penance, then, of course, the monastic life as such has a completely different meaning. You have three groups now. You have those who live in the monasteries somehow, let us say, as officials, often public institution, educational or parochial, and you have those who live in the monasteries as the hortus conclusus in which they have grown up since they were boys and you have those who live in monasteries and give of God the Spirit as conversing and those three groups are really distinguished and visible groups in the whole

[51:35]

The middle in this whole thing is the English comic. I don't fit.

[51:44]

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