At the end of last week I mentioned that maybe this week we could start to look at the practice of virtue or virtues in the context of renunciation. I still am sort of having that in mind to work towards, but I feel, again, we need to look at this basic practice of renunciation. Not need to, but it would be good to look at it a little bit more before trying to do that. During meditation, I said some things which actually were ways I talked about renunciation at the beginning.

[01:04]

In the first class, I suggested that renunciation is to renounce or give away, let go of anything that distracts from what's happening. So what's happening is what's happening, and of course nothing can actually distract from what's happening. Some beings that are there with what's happening, they somehow seem to be able to be distracted from what's happening. But of course what's happening is still what's happening, including being distracted is part of what's happening. So somehow we seem to be able to not be present, even though we are.

[02:09]

So in some sense renunciation is to let go of unreality, the unreality that you can be somewhere else, can be distracted from what's happening. It's a remedy. hurdle, the strange thing called lack of presence. So renunciation is presence. I can say pure presence in the sense that of course we're always present, but sometimes we don't think we are, or we don't appreciate it. So in renunciation we let go of our distraction from appreciating being present. And then I could also say that this pure... meet whatever comes with no grasping or seeking.

[03:33]

This is to meet whatever comes, practicing renunciation, or practicing renunciation, meeting whatever comes. A traditional Zen way of putting this is to meet whatever comes with no mind. And saying no mind means meet whatever comes without the usual mind that we use to meet whatever comes. The usual mind we meet things with is a mind of picking and choosing, of seeking something or holding on to something.

[04:47]

Again, if I like it, if I feel good, I grasp it. If I feel bad, I seek something else. So it's like let go of that way of meeting things. Let go of that way of meeting things. In that sense, you let go of that kind of mind. You don't seek to get rid of that mind, because it's available all the time, picking and choosing. The mind of preference is always available. We don't reject it, just let go of it. We just let go of the mind of clinging and seeking. This is another way of talking about renunciation. And then, so applying that to the situation, the difficult situation of, not the difficult situation, but the normal challenging situation of something pleasant happens and we tend to be happy about that.

[06:06]

Something unpleasant happens and we tend to be unhappy about it. How can we meet an unpleasant experience and be there with presence without seeking something else? You might look to see. When something unpleasant happens and there's no seeking of something other than it, do you become unhappy then? Or is it perhaps that something unpleasant happens and you seek something else, you wish something else was happening, you want to skip over this, and then you're unhappy?

[07:16]

And when something pleasant happens, if you just stop there without grasping it, what's that like versus something pleasant happens and you grasp it and does that make you more happy? This is something to maybe look at moment by moment in meditation. And someone kindly volunteered. Listening to this description of the practice of renunciation, it sounded like something far away, to be able to meet whatever comes with this non-grasping and non-seeking. It seems far away to be able to meet an unpleasant thing and not get unhappy about that, or to meet a pleasant thing without trying to, you know, whomp it up.

[08:36]

It seems far away to be able to hear someone speak ill of you and just hear that, as though they were talking about somebody else that you didn't know. Like, you know, like the great bodhisattvas of compassion would hear a person speaking ill of another, and what they would hear was a suffering person. They would hear a suffering person. They wouldn't be personally insulted. They would hear a suffering person. They would go, hmm, suffering person talking ill. Unhappy person seeing ill. over there, seeing someone that they don't like, that they don't appreciate. This is a cry of suffering. Just that. Speaking ill.

[09:37]

And then, and it's about you. Like, if you're the bodhisattva of great compassion, they say, you are a lousy bodhisattva of great compassion. You're a disgrace to the great compassion bodhisattvas. Could you hear that without saying, This is an exception to the rule. I'm not going to practice with this. That seems far away to be able to hear someone actually say something nasty about you and actually just hear that. That seems far away. Someone said. Someone says, you're really, really, you're so compassionate. I mean, you're just fantastically, wonderfully kind. To hear that and just like, hear it like, hear you, I hear you, okay? And not even, okay?

[10:41]

And then I change my mind, okay? That seems far away. So I can, you know, how can we get to that place? Want to be able to hear someone say bad things about us and not be upset about it. Well, one way is just And during the breaks between insults, just try to meet the more neutral situations. Like during meditation, probably the only person that's insulting you is yourself. So in some temples, the teachers insult the students during meditation. But, you know, I haven't, like, said anything nasty to you while you've been sitting, have I?

[11:51]

I haven't said, you know, you're lazy, negligent, half-hearted. I haven't talked to you like that while you're sitting, right? So I haven't said anything to you against you while you're sitting. Maybe some of you have said, I'm not meditating very well. I'm a lousy meditator. I don't even deserve to be in this class. Maybe somebody's been talking like that. Anyway, between the insults, Just then, when it's not so hard, in between the compliments, just see if you can meet what comes with complete relaxation, with no grasping of it or seeking of it. During the periods that aren't really, really good or really, really bad, If you can just practice then. And then if you can practice in the more neutral situations when the meditation is not really good, so you think, like, I've got to hold on to this, or really bad, like, this is terrible. If you can develop this way of being with the less challenging situations and extend to the more difficult ones.

[12:58]

That's one way. And an extension of that way is what I just said, you know. Just sit and sit and sit or stand and stand and stand or walk in the midst of this. And as you sit more and more sort of in the center of the suffering that you're aware of, The mind of renunciation starts to come up, starts to arise. So actually, if you ask them, have you heard about compassion, and they maybe say yes,

[14:07]

I have heard about compassion. And you say, do you want to learn how to be compassionate? They say, yes, I do. I would like to learn how to be compassionate. I would like to be really skillful and compassionate. Okay. But actually, when presenting renunciation, people are not necessarily as attracted to it as they are to compassion. Because compassion, it seems like you're going to get compassion. You're going to get something, right? You're going to get compassion. So a lot of people want that. But some of those people who want compassion do not necessarily want to give up a lot. Not they're told, well, you sort of, that giving up passion, they say, well, yeah, okay. But they're not necessarily as enthusiastic about the giving up some or a lot of things or everything.

[15:13]

They're not as enthusiastic about that as they are about getting this passion that would, you know, be very helpful. But they kind of go together, those two, the giving up attachment. The non-clinging and the non-seeking go with the compassion. But some compassion can come before much renunciation comes. So you start with the compassion that you now have and you sit. wherever you are, and actually everybody's kind of in the middle of the world of suffering. But some people are kind of like, pretend like they're off to the side a little bit. Even off to the little side a little bit of their own suffering. In other words, they're seeking to be someplace a little bit different.

[16:14]

Because they're not practicing renunciation. But the more they're in the middle of suffering, the more this this mind of willingness to be purely present arises. So they speak of all the Buddhas sit in the world of suffering. They don't sit up in heaven. However, heaven is not, they don't move away from heaven, they just sit in the middle of the world of suffering. The middle of the world of suffering is the human realm. And around the human realm there's heavenly suffering, there's suffering even in heaven, but there's no negative sensation in heaven. There's this situation where it's just positive sensation, positive sensation, no negative sensation. But in heaven too, some of the people in heaven are happy about being in heaven.

[17:20]

Now they... They never think of not being in heaven, which would be unpleasant, so they don't even think of it. In human realm, however, we think we're sometimes a little bit in heaven or sometimes a little bit in hell. So human realm is surrounded by hell and heaven and all kinds of other ways of being. So Buddhists sit in the center of all the suffering. not sort of over a better neighborhood or a worse neighborhood. They sit sort of in the most central position. And part of the kind of, what do you call it, anthropocentric aspect of Buddhism is that we actually feel like the human realm is really kind of the best place to sit in terms of, like, being close to the most extreme bliss and extreme misery, but not leaning most of the time. So Buddhists sit there in the middle of the world of suffering, and as you sit there longer and longer, they sometimes speak of this mind that arises or this heart that arises, which is called a supple or soft or flexible mind, by sitting in that suffering.

[18:43]

And at first you sit in suffering, you may wiggle a little, but the more you can just be settled there, the more this soft mind arises. And this soft mind, if that's the sort of nickname for it, it's the mind that wants to let go of anything that hinders being present. And of course, anything can hinder being present. So basically it's letting go of your body and mind. Or it's the body and mind dropping away. It's willingness and actually even desire to let go of body and mind. Because even your body has, you know, your nonverbal body has, you know, tendencies of seeking and grasping. Unconsciously we have this kind of seeking and grasping.

[19:48]

So this willingness to let go of body and mind arises in us. And somehow that mind is a mind that feels kind of like not so far away from what we're talking about. Maybe there's somebody else still there around who thinks, geez, that renunciation is far away. But simultaneously, maybe, with that attitude, there's this feeling like, I'll be here. I'm in the world of suffering, and I would like to be completely here. And actually I feel pretty completely here now, but I would also like to give up anything that would later take me away. Like right now I feel pretty present, not seeking much, but I would like to actually give up anything that would distract me later, after I get up out of this meditation. So even though I still may be in a place where when somebody speaks ill of me, you know, I cringe, it knocks me off a little bit, and when they praise me, it knocks me off a little bit, I still may be there.

[21:19]

But as I sit there in that way of being and feel the slight or significant nauseation of getting pushed around like that, it gradually starts to build my willingness to not be pushed around like that. At Green Gulch, we had a tea teacher who lived there for a long time. Her name was Nakamura Sensei. And she lived at Green Gulch until she was 91, and then she went back to Japan. But I heard that she said one day, she said, I think she said something like, we're so weak, we get under the overcast.

[22:21]

And somebody might say, well, of course. Of course you get unhappy when it's overcast. But, you know, do you really want to be that way? Do you really want to like when it's overcast? When it's sunny, we feel like That doesn't seem so bad. But if you think about this, and then you just do that over and over and over and over and over, it takes a toll. It tires you out. That ride, you know, you drain yourself by going up and down like that, or just vibrating back and before, or just going down and [...] down, or up and up and up and up.

[23:39]

I'll go back and forth real fast, but there is a cyclic quality to it. I was just reading a text on Monday with a group of people, and We're studying this part where it talks about the way the way things actually are and then the way they and there were seven aspects of the way they actually are the way things actually are and one of the aspects was Its nickname is the suchness. There are seven suchnesses. It's the suchness of arising.

[24:41]

What that means is the beginninglessness and endlessness of phenomena. And the Chinese way of putting it was the mundane world Phenomena whirl around. There's no beginning to them and there's no end to them. They just go round and round. Like I told you a couple weeks ago, the example of like, you know, like I had a city. You know, I had a wart that had a story. I had a wart. I guess you were out of town. I had a wart, you know, on my hand, a little wart, like one wart, not 95 warts, one wart. And I didn't want that one wart, I wanted like a, see that, isn't that nice? No warts. Look down at your, cute. So I feel good, right?

[25:44]

Because I got a nice hand with no warts. So there was a wart there, and you know, I didn't like it that much, actually. I didn't feel terrible about it, but I actually did not like the wart. It was like a blemish. And, you know, warts sometimes spread, too, right? And you know how warts sometimes go away fast. They'd start to deteriorate a little bit, and then suddenly look down. You hadn't noticed it for a day or so, and they're gone. That happened. I just looked down, and the wart was gone. that the wart was gone. And I didn't feel bad about myself feeling happy, actually, at that time. And I looked over at my thumb. The wart was on my fourth finger. I looked over at my thumb, and there was a cyst on the joint. And I felt bad. And then I sort of got it, you know. And then I thought, well, you know, then I'll just wait for the cyst to go away. And when that goes away, then the next thing comes.

[26:50]

So part of me is like, if I got that wart, okay, let's have the wart. Hurry to get rid of that one because what's going to come next? What's the next lesson that you're going to get? Work with the one you got. Don't miss this chance of accepting this wart and see if you can just look at it with pure presence. without like, okay, when's it going to go away? Or even, I hope it's just going to be one wart. Just look at the wart. And also look at your face, your foot, and your age. Look at everything that way. See if you can learn to do that with everything. And again, not again, I don't know if I said this before, but renunciation isn't the whole story.

[27:54]

It's important, but it's just one ingredient in the whole picture. It is kind of like the key to get into the realm of wisdom and compassion working together. And If pronunciation wasn't necessary, then we could just drop it off the list of practices, because really, wisdom and compassion basically is enough. I mean, that's really what counts, is wisdom and compassion working together. Being able to practice virtue can join with understanding what the virtues are. And to understand what's happening, really, conjoined with practicing all kinds of... That kind of way of living is really what's important.

[29:04]

Just that renunciation kind of is needed to get in there. So in one sense, renunciation is like the key. In another sense, renunciation is the context. So we have to sort of We have to practice pure presence in order to enter into this realm where wisdom is purifying compassion and where compassion is purifying wisdom. Next step could be to talk a little bit more about that realm, if you're ready, or if you have any questions, we can do the questions now and then move into that later. What do you want to do? Any suggestions? Dorit?

[30:08]

My grandson does this. So this realm of wisdom and compassion So again, I think I need to mention this, I don't need to, but I think it would be helpful to mention another thing which we can learn, and that is to learn, and to learn, or hear about anyway, what's called the mind of enlightenment, or the spirit of enlightenment, or even the wish for enlightenment. And it is that.

[31:17]

It is the wish to achieve enlightenment for the welfare of all beings. So it's not just compassion, although it is born of compassion, it's compassion connected with the thought that in order to realize compassion to the fullest, there needs to be the realization of enlightenment. And I want to be part of the realization, I want to be in on this, I want to be devoted to it, I want to get into this process of the realization of supreme enlightenment for the welfare of all beings. And some people have thoughts like that. And it may be that you all have a thought like that, that just 10% of you have that thought, or, I don't know, even less.

[32:25]

I don't know, I haven't asked you, but this is called the thought of enlightenment, or in Sanskrit, bodhicitta. Bodhi is awakening and shifting the mind or thought. And this happens to people. This thought arises in people. They sort of think, for a long time they might think, gee, I'd like to be helped. A lot of people ask, well, what do you really want to accomplish in this life? Or what do you want to have happen so far? i really want to be helpful i really want to do something good before i die and then some of those people say some of the people who have that kind of wish to do something good to be a lot of people say i want to be of service many people people say i want to love i want to really realize love people say things like that and people will talk like that then sometimes they a thought occurs to them well not only do i want to do something of service i want to

[33:32]

realize perfect enlightenment and a lot of people say hey i kind of know i wish that's too lofty for me but some people do have that wish even though it is lofty they sometimes have that wish because somehow it just it happens The stories about how it happens, you know, and what the conditions for it are, but anyway, there is this amazing thing that can happen to somebody. They not only want to be helpful or start service or do something good, but they want to realize the possible good that there could be, whatever that is, and they would like to have an understanding such that that fullest possible good would be facilitated.

[34:35]

And we call that enlightenment, that way of helping the greatest good for the greatest, for everybody. And that thought, once that thought arises, it's developed by the continuous practice of compassion. And compassion partly this thought, but also just simply that you want beings to be free of suffering. You want that, and you're willing to work for it. And if it's great compassion, you're not only willing to work for it, But you want happiness for absolutely all beings. You know, it's pretty big, like you actually want it for cockroaches and mosquitoes, ants and rats.

[35:42]

and bacteria. Of course, all humans. And that can end. And then there's practices that go with that wish. And the practices are things you can, ways you can be conducted through life. And that is through giving through practicing precepts, through conscientious attention to all your activities of your body, speech and mind, through patience, like patience with cockroaches and warts. Warts are from a virus, right? patients with viruses, people, consulters, enthusiasm or courageous energy, concentration, mental and physical stability,

[37:19]

Those practices develop the compassion, and they are compassion. And they protect and develop this wish to... Well, the wish to be a bodhisattva and finish the... So they develop it. And wisdom, in a sense, doesn't really develop it. It more like protects it. Because wisdom means that... Wisdom is like... It's a wisdom which understands what the virtues are. And what other things are too. It also understands non-virtue. It understands what they are... Yes. Without which wish?

[38:23]

I think he said it was called the Bodhicitta. Yeah. You can practice compassion. Like I said, a lot of people, there's a wide variety of compassion in this world. Among all the people, there's all kinds of different forms and manifestations of compassion. So some people want to be of service. They really do. If you ask them, what's the most important thing in your life, they say, I want to serve humanity or I want to serve animals. A lot of people say, actually, I want to serve animals. I don't want to serve humanity. Animals, they don't like people. You know, like, I was in a parking lot someplace and this woman came over to where I was and where I was was in the parking lot and next to me was this little dog I hang out with.

[39:41]

She came over to us and she knelt down and started touching the dog and then started kissing the dog and then she got up and walked away. So I thought, yeah, well, that's fine. How come she can kiss the dog and not kiss me? Why didn't she just come up and start petting me? And then just go, and then walk away. You know, non-attachment, right? She didn't try to take the dog with her. And if someone were to ask her, you know, did you kiss the dog, she'd probably say, no. And she didn't ask the dog if she could beforehand. But there's a little thing that a lot of people know how to do is when you go up to, especially little dogs, you should go up underneath them, right? A lot of people know that. You pet them from underneath rather than up from above. They get scared from above. You go, put your hand under here.

[40:42]

So she knew how to do that. It's kind of like, can I touch you? You go from underneath. rather than from above. So it's a way of asking, can I touch you? And I think with humans too, if you go up to somebody and lay on the ground and go like this, and say, okay, go ahead. That's my grandson there. He goes, huh? Huh? And most people say, okay. You know, they say, go ahead. I'll hug you. Huh? It's a kind of request. for a hug. I'm getting a little out of sorts here. Would you hug me? So anyway, some people are devoted. I think that woman probably would do a lot to protect that dog. When I go across the street, you know, people don't run over me when I'm with her. They stop, they stop. They don't want to run over that little dog. Almost no one... So a lot of people, they have compassion for dogs or cats or horses, and they're devoted to them.

[41:50]

Like some people, a lot of kids grow up, they want to be a veterinarian. They don't like people, though. But there still is compassion. They want to help these animals. So there's that kind of compassion. Then there's compassion which, let's say, Let's say it's even bigger, like, I want to help all animals and all humans, and I really do, and I want to work for them. But you don't think, well, I want to be a Buddha, too. You don't think that. It doesn't arise in you, even if you hear intellectually, well, don't you think it would be helpful to be a Buddha if you're going to help people? Like, you know, to be able to, like, know just the right thing to do because you're so wise. Wouldn't that be helpful? You say, yeah. But you still might say, well, I don't really want to be one, though. Well, fine. But sometime it arises in you that you think. What I think is that for me to be the most helpful to people would mean to me to be as wise as I could possibly be. And maybe human beings can be Buddhas.

[42:53]

So if human beings can be Buddhas, and that would be the most helpful way to be with people, I really want to be that. Not so much that I want to be a Buddha just to be a Buddha, but I want to be a Buddha so I can really And I can see now that that's necessary to be that. So I want to be that. But it doesn't necessarily... And I'm talking to you about this, and so one of the conditions for the... is talking to somebody about it like this, and reading about it, and hearing about it. So it's not hearing about Buddhas and seeing what they can do with their understanding, with their wisdoms, is part of what makes people think. Like me, you know, I didn't exactly hear about Buddha. I heard about Zen priests behaving certain ways. I want to be like that. That's the way I want to be. I didn't think it was being a Buddha. Now I do think it is. That's what I wanted to be. But there's other things Buddha can do which I wasn't so interested in.

[43:53]

Like, they can, you know, do miracles if it's helpful. That's a tough one. Like, want to learn how to do miracles? I don't know. So anyway, so what sometimes people say is, well, you may not want to be a Buddha, but would you like to learn how to want to be a Buddha? And the person says, yeah, I guess I'd be willing to learn how to want to be a Buddha. And just the practice of compassion at whatever level you're practicing it, generally speaking, is conducive to your compassionate developing deeper and wider. And the compassion which is perfectly united with the realization of the final truth, the most universal truth,

[44:56]

That is the most perfect compassion. That's basically Buddha, is when you have this perfect wisdom and perfect compassion. And renunciation is sort of the way we get in there. So it means that we practice or we practice various kinds of precepts or patience But we practice those virtues the same way we practice renunciation with everything else. Because giving, we just need it with pure presence. Which means we don't grasp the giving or seek the giving. Prefer the giving to the non-giving.

[46:03]

Because preferring, if you're practicing giving, preferring giving distracts you from the giving. It makes the giving more unstable. So to be able to be with the practice of giving in this kind of exciting way is a way that gets you into the giving which will gradually be joined to wisdom. So at first we practice giving, and we kind of like get excited about it, maybe, like, I was successful at giving, and giving is a lot better than not giving. Giving is great, being stingy is lousy, and I was giving, so I'm happy. Again, that's perfectly understandable, that's very similar to something nice happens and you get happy. But how can you give? Period. That's it.

[47:05]

No big deal. Give, period, rather than give. Feel good, happy that I feel good, and also what's going to happen next. Has anybody noticed? So one of the basic things about... One of the summaries of the traps of practicing virtue is big name. So a lot of people who practice virtue, they're practicing virtue, and they're pretty good at it, and somewhere they know that they for this practice. And a little bit, they kind of are into that. And they are doing pretty well. But to do Practice gives us patience and enthusiasm and confidence to do these practices and to do them with the hope of becoming more and more skillful at them for the benefit of others.

[48:11]

Okay? Wouldn't that be excellent, right? Let's say it is excellent, shall we? Let's say that you're really good at all these practices I just mentioned. Or somebody is. That can happen. I've seen people that are good at this stuff. I've seen really generous people. I've seen it. Haven't you? There's such people. And some people are really careful about everything they do. They're really careful. They really think about whether they're stealing or not. They really think about whether they're lying. And they're good at telling the truth. They're good. They're excellent. And so on. And some people are good at a whole bunch of stuff like that. And then, if you just have this little thought up there, I'm, you know, I am and will continue to be famous for this.

[49:13]

And people are, you know, I can sense and I can, you know, and you can check and find who aren't even near me right now, who are in other areas of the city. People around the Bay Area are talking right now about how how virtuous i am i'm sitting in a cave in the berkeley hills but people down in the lower parts and they're talking about me they're they're having little tea parties and they're saying you know you know i am and that's basically makes those practices uh pretty much shots shoots them down it doesn't make them It doesn't make them as bad as some other things, but basically pretty much equalizes them to trying to get stuff for yourself, being impatient and stuff like that. The nice thing about those things is you're not doing those to be famous. You're just doing it just because you're selfish, you know, trying to get stuff for yourself and being impatient with people that irritate you.

[50:17]

So, Renunciation helps us enter into these practices in a way that they start to really work, really develop compassion. And also, we start to treat them like we would treat them if there was wisdom. Because if there's wisdom, when you understand this practice, you do not... You cannot... This big name thing. You cannot get into, like... You don't get... You're practicing virtues. You're practicing virtues, but you do not fall into that virtues are better than non-virtues. You don't get into that. So, of course, you can practice virtues. because you don't get demoralized and enervated from non-virtue, and you don't get shot up and pumped up from virtue.

[51:31]

And you do not look down on people who don't practice virtue. But you do look up to everybody, because the practice of virtue makes you appreciate people. when it's done without any grasping. To just go around and say, well, virtue is not really different from non-virtue, you know, as a policy statement or something you heard that sounds cute, of course, that's ...virtue to talk like that. To go around and say that virtue is the same as non-virtue without actually understanding that. Because you understand what virtue is and what non-virtue is. But you have to practice virtue in order to understand that.

[52:36]

You can't say, okay, I'm going to practice non-virtue at the same time, I'm not going to practice virtue. Because I don't prefer virtue. I'm beyond that. No, remember I said before, you have to practice all those virtues without any expectation of reward, also without an expectation of punishment. I guess people, when they're practicing virtues, they might expect punishment if they stop practicing them. So they practice without expectation of punishment or reward, and finally they're practiced understanding that they're not different from non-virtue. But you're practicing virtues with the understanding that virtue is not different from non-virtue. You're not practicing non-virtue with the understanding that non-virtue is not different from virtue. Unfortunately... No.

[53:39]

Yeah, unfortunately... Unfortunately, you can practice non-virtue with the understanding that non-virtue is not different from virtue. You can do that. And some people do. So what's recommended is practice virtue until you understand that virtue and non-virtue are not different. with the understanding that of the rewards you get for practicing virtue are not different from the punishments you get from not practicing virtue. Which means that you understand that the punishment you're getting is the same as the reward you're getting. If you can understand that being punished, how being punished is the same as being rewarded, then you can understand if that's the way you are.

[54:49]

then you can understand virtue and non-virtue are the same, but you have to be practicing virtue at the same time with that. So you practice virtue with renunciation of the mind which discriminates, or I should say, renunciation of the mind which discriminates between good and bad, but also renunciation of the distinction between good and bad, kind of the same thing. but you practice a virtue with the renunciation of that distinction. And that approaching wisdom joined to compassion. Practice virtue with renunciation.

[56:06]

You can practice renunciation and practice virtue. If you practice renunciation with non-virtue, what that turns into is not practicing non-virtue. But you can continue to practice renunciation with virtue, with renunciation. But non-virtue doesn't go with renunciation. they don't go together. As soon as there's renunciation, the non-virtue is not functioning. And if there's practice of virtue and you lose the renunciation, then the virtue deteriorates into non-virtue. That's why renunciation is the key. to keep virtue, purify it, and to drop non-virtue. Because non-virtue is basically anything that distracts you from what's happening.

[57:10]

Or whatever distracts you from what's happening is non-virtue. Anything that distracts you from being present with someone suffering is non-virtue. Anything to distract you from being present with someone's happiness is non-virtue. Anything to distract you from being present with your suffering is non-virtue. And renunciation is to give up being distracted. And if you haven't got renunciation yet, or the wish to practice renunciation, then trying to be present as much as you can with what makes you want to do that more which means you're wanting to be renunciate because if you like being present sometimes then maybe you'd like to be present more and wanting to be present is actually wanting to

[58:19]

Does it make sense? Any questions about it? We have some more time. Yes. Do you have to give up playing football? I mean, you don't get the score. I don't know. It depends on who you're playing with. If you're playing with Bodhisattvas, you probably would be the star. Because they'd be out there to, you know, help you be a star. But if you go play with the 49ers, that will work out. I think it might be hard to play with the 49ers. It would be very difficult to do. So I think some things you might actually stop doing. but some things you might be able to continue to do, but by doing them in a way that you weren't distracted from them, they might suddenly become virtues.

[59:33]

Like, I think, playing touch... Forget about touch football. I remember one time I was... I was at Esalen Institute and it was during the last year, actually during the last few months of Gregory Bateson's life. Do you know Gregory Bateson? Gregory Bateson was, well, he was a biologist and he went to Bali with Margaret Mead, who was her husband. So he co-authored some of those studies and so on. And he is the author of the double-blind theory of schizophrenia and things like that. Anyway, and his father was kind of like a... You know, he wasn't Darwin, but he was kind of like Darwin's... Almost Darwin's equal. Anyway, he was a great biologist. And Gregor Bateson was at Ethelin, and...

[60:37]

he offered to play chess with me. And he was, at that time, he was 76 and really a wonderful guy. But he was 76 too, you know. And you may or may not know that chess players are not usually 76. They die young, actually. They don't live very long. Among the various professions, they have the lowest longevity. It's a very tense, nerve-wracking sport. Anyway, they're usually good up like mathematicians or something. Anyway, I was a young man and he was an old man, and I'm not saying I'm a good chess player, but anyway, I decided to play the most beautiful game I could play with him. I decided to make moves that I thought he would find interesting, which are not necessarily stupid moves, like, you know, here, kick my bitch.

[61:42]

Moves that I tried to, like, do interesting things that weren't, like, But I wasn't trying to beat him. I was trying to give him nice opportunities, you know, to think and to... And he really liked me. And I did sometimes win the games. But I wasn't trying to. And... Since that time, I've never played chess again. Because I just feel like... That's the only way I want to play now, is just to play for the other person, not to beat the other person. So I think it is possible to get out there and play football for the other people and do something generous. Playing football that way might be in accord with renunciation. You might find that you can be more present than you were perhaps when you played to win.

[62:48]

But sometimes when you play to win, you close your eyes to what you're doing in terms of whether it hurt the other person's feelings. If you, like, against them or something, kind of close your eyes to that and say, I'm not going to look at if this hurts your feelings. I'm just going to go ahead and score this thing. So it might be interesting to go and have, you know, like a get everybody together and see if everybody really could be devoted to all the other people and try to promote, you know, compassion through this activity. I think it might be an interesting exercise. But maybe ridiculous, I don't know. Patty? Yes. Well, it's easy to grasp anything because we're excellent graspers.

[63:53]

And normal development is to learn how to grasp. And so we know how to grasp any kind of instruction. Even we know how to grasp instruction on non-grasping. Huh? Yeah, it's kind of hard to learn. But, you know, sometimes you get a feeling for it, like, because today I got a, I got a, what do you call it, I got a hepatitis J shot, and, you know, it's a needle into you, you can just relax, or you can tense up. It's possible to relax. Or if someone is, I don't know what, some other thing I'd say, you know, like a massage.

[64:57]

Sometimes people are massaging you and pressing and it hurts a little bit. And if you relax, you know, then there can be some give there, you know. But you can also tense up. And if they push too hard, the pain gets too strong, and you start tensing up, and it's antithetical to the process. So some massage therapists would, you know, they would ask you to tell them when you get to the point where you're going to tense up, and then they won't go any farther than that. So I think we have some experience of, like, when something is... we sometimes tense up or sometimes we relax. And also you can do various physical movements. And the movement can be accomplished using a certain set of muscles. And you can also do a bunch of other muscles on top of that.

[66:02]

So this muscle has to contract in order for this movement to occur, maybe. But it's possible to use several other muscles in the same area on top of that. to just sort of grip and tense around the basic activity. But it's also possible to learn how to let those basic movement muscles operate. And that can be pointed out, and you can go, and somehow you hear it, and the muscles relax. When I first learned how to cross my legs, I used to cross my legs and I used to notice, well, at first it was like, no, it can't be. A lot of people say, When they see the legs cross, they sit down and try to do it, and they say, well, it's just not going to happen. The leg won't go there. And partly it's because there's a whole bunch of muscles that are saying no. And when I first started trying to cross my legs, I used to trick myself and sort of pull the leg up there when those muscles weren't noticing. And it actually worked.

[67:08]

When they were relaxed, I would kind of sneak the leg up there. And they just sort of like stayed asleep, you know. They didn't need to be, you know, working when you're sitting here, right? But somehow they go to work sometimes because I don't know why they do it. It's sort of like, shouldn't we be involved here too? But if they do, the leg really doesn't go up. So I would actually like kind of look the other way and go. Another thing I tried was crossing my legs in a warm bath. So the legs get real relaxed and then just sort of... And you're in your posture. And then sometimes the legs would say, okay, now we're going to tense up. Say, no, no, back off, okay? So this is part of being present, you know? Get in there with those tensions and talk to them. Could you consider taking a break just for a little while?

[68:11]

So that sometimes... Sometimes in meditation, a 30-minute period of... Maybe that's too much to take a break from taking and choosing. Maybe it's too long to take a break from grasping and seeking. But maybe you could do it for like two minutes. during 30 minutes, just like the middle of the 30 minutes, just like, you know, would it be all right for 30 minutes, for two minutes here, just to, like, just relax completely? Would that be all right? Would the world allow me to do that? I'm saying, no, that's, how about a minute? How about 30 seconds? Well, that might be okay. I can just

[69:14]

Let go of anything that takes you away from this, just for 30 seconds. How about for one moment, just for one moment, just... Was that all right? Did anybody get hurt? And try it for two. you know, a minute, a whole minute. Just pass up on all the things that are taking you away from just being here. And that's enough. A minute. A one minute where you actually just were here and all the opportunities to get distracted, you just let them go. That's renunciation. And you don't even have to tell yourself that you are successful. And sometimes when people sit for a whole, you know, maybe in the middle of the week, for half an hour, for that whole half hour, they're just there.

[70:35]

That's great. But like 150 periods of meditation or something, to have one where you just were completely there the whole time But then, if you keep practicing over the years, there'll be more. And seeking that there'll be more is not the point. Just keep practicing and don't worry about whether there's going to be more, and there will be. Don't worry about improving, and you will. it's just because we're worrying that we have these problems, you know. And we're worried because we're seeking and grasping. So again,

[71:38]

to discuss in gradually more detail how to practice virtues like giving, enthusiasm, patience, precepts in the context of meeting the practice without giving up that mind which is judging and distracting us from the practice in terms of like getting something out of it or afraid that we won't be able to do it or whatever. Okay?

[72:14]

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