Morning, so we're happy to welcome as our speaker this morning, Yakusho Ryushin, Healing Source, Dragon Heart, Andrea Thatch. Andrea has practiced here for many years and she received Dharma Transmission, she was ordained by Sogyal Roshin and received Dharma Transmission from him last year I believe. And she has departed for northern climes where she lives and works as a doctor in Bellingham, Washington and down here for her time, so we're really happy to have the opportunity to hear you give a talk today. Thank you very much, Hosan. It's really wonderful, it's really happy to have a homecoming.

[01:02]

Can you hear me? Yeah, it's on. I'll keep talking. Can you hear me better now? Good enough, okay, great. It's great to be home and to see many old friends and to also see some new faces in the Zendo renewing the practice here. So as Hosan said, some months ago I moved north and I left after 30 years of living in the same place, doing very similar work with like-minded people and living in Berkeley, Oakland, which is its own little world, to a place that's really quite different. And there have been many, many layers, unexpected layers of culture shock and culture change. I live in a small city in Washington, which is a progressive center of an area that's really quite rural

[02:03]

and quite libertarian. So working in this time, in this election year, at a time of great, the world being on fire, as I think Sojin spoke of here a few months ago, has been interesting. I'm part of an interfaith coalition that's looking to make a response to bring cohesiveness at this time in our area. And tomorrow, the anniversary of the World Trade Center attacks, is the launching of our initiative, Let Love Be Our Legacy. So I've been thinking about this and want to talk about it from a broad perspective. The title of this talk is something like harmonious relations straight from the horse's mouth. So Suzuki Roshi says, when our life is based on respect and complete trust, it will be completely peaceful.

[03:13]

Respect is that space of pause and observation and curiosity about that which we think we know. This summer, I was visiting one of our Sangha members who has an old family home up in Stihikon, which is about as remote a city as you can get to in the lower 48. And it's incredibly beautiful. If you ever have a chance to go there, incredibly beautiful. And I had a chance to go horseback riding. Now, I used to ride horses when I was a teenager, and that whole part of my life got interrupted by being a teenager. But I have a great affinity for horses. So I decided to go on one of these trail rides. It's a pre-set trail ride. The horses are the same old horses that walk that path every day, you know, and they get kind of bored and tired with it.

[04:22]

The people who went on the trail ride with me, they were mainly young people, children. It was a family of three girls. And so I got assigned the most difficult horse, the Mustang named Leroy. And I was warned that Leroy has certain habits, which included wanting to go off the trail. Now, I hadn't been on a horse probably in about 30 years, so this was a little disconcerting for me. So I mounted Leroy, who was about 17 hands. That's kind of tall, so I haul myself up on top of his saddle, and I situate myself. And I kind of try and get a feel for what he's like, but I'm a little bit nervous. And we head out on the trail, I think I'm the third or fourth horse down. And I notice that Leroy starts to go off. He's not on exactly the same trail as the other horses.

[05:24]

He keeps going in different directions, and I immediately get concerned that I don't know how to control this horse well enough. Because I haven't been on a horse, and it's Western, I'm used to riding English. But I start to pay attention, and I notice that Leroy is going in a different part of the trail than the other horses. The other horses are climbing over the rocks, but Leroy is being very careful to walk in the ditches where there are no rocks. And soon I kind of settle into noticing that that's just what he needs to do. That's his preference, or that's where he feels more comfortable. So I give him his head, and he relaxes. And I fall behind, we fall behind, and I get nervous about that, too, right? So I give him a little pat on the butt, which is what I was told to do.

[06:26]

It doesn't work so well. So I give him his head, and I lean my weight forward a little bit, and I go giddy-up, just softly like that, giddy-up. And he trots, actually. He moves with some speed, and he catches up, and then he stops. Doesn't try to take me anywhere else. He stops right where he should be and goes back to a walk. And we proceed that way up the mountain. And the horses get tied up, and knowing that Leroy has a penchant for grass, I was warned. I jump off him, and I run and get some grass and give it to him. And before I know it, he's looking from around the tree to find out if I'm going to come back again. And we make the trip down in much the same way with increasing ease. He taking his time over the rocky places, and then just naturally I'm shifting my weight in a way to help him, and he helps me out too.

[07:34]

At the end of the ride, we're all tying up and getting ready to take off. And I go around, I get off of him, and I go around to his front. Now, horses can be a little unpredictable if you don't know this. So I was careful walking around his rear end, because you never know. And I come up to his face, and I've been bitten by horses trying to offer them something. So I come around to his face, and I'm just going to give him a good pat on the neck and attaboy. And he brings his head down to mine and touches forehead to forehead. And as I have, I have my hands kind of in front of me. He puts his nuzzle into my hands, and he nuzzles it. And if you know horses, that's a sign of affection. They nuzzle each other's necks. So straight from the horse's mouth. When our life is based on respect and complete trust, it will be completely peaceful.

[08:38]

This is really a talk about respect. I think sometimes that word is difficult for us in the West. Respect can evoke some kind of feeling of authority or hierarchy. In fact, the definition of respect is esteem, regard, high opinion, admiration, reverence, deference, honor. You know, it has that tinge to it if you hear it that way. But heard with the ear of the Buddha Dharma, I hear it as not putting above. But putting equal, elevated to the same level. Not a least common denominator, but it's true value. And in fact, in the Buddha Dharma, one thing has no more value than the other. It may seem that way to us that humans are superior to animals, animals to plants.

[09:46]

But actually, each has its own value, each holding its own unique position. What's to say what intelligence is? Elephants can respond to vibration miles and miles around and gather together for the death of one of their own. Birds can migrate 20,000 miles at night using just magnetic forces. What's to say what intelligence is? What's valuable? My father was a salesman and he used to say, a person has to earn my respect, is what he used to say. And you might think, well, a salesman makes his living by knowing what a person wants. But, you know, my mom, my dad actually meant what he said.

[10:49]

He said he meant a person needed to earn his respect, but the paradox was he started out that way. He always assumed the person's basic dignity. He always assumed the person had something they wanted or something they needed, and his job was to meet that person there. Not because that's how you make a good sales, because that's how you treat a person. That's how you treat a person. It wasn't to manipulate them, but it was to join them. Respect is not about being obsequious, but being person to person, man to man, horse to woman. Respect has a different definition, too. It means a particular aspect, point, or detail. It's from the old French, which means to look back at, to regard, or to consider, to look back at.

[11:53]

I think to stop again, outside of our usual ways of seeing something. To relate outside of our first take, our habit energy, but to see with fresh eyes. The horse stepping out of line was not trying to pull himself away, my worst fear. The horse stepping out of line had something that he needed to do. Suzuki Roshi says, the Buddha Dharma says that we see a big Buddha in a blade of grass. Everywhere we turn, there is its own wisdom, its own wholeness arising if we pay attention to it, if we pay attention and give it the respect it deserves. It's deep and broad. Another friend, my dear friend Mark, who was my best friend in medical school, had great respect for everything, especially people's work.

[12:54]

He met his death while he was changing his tire at the side of a road. Mark had a flat tire on a windy Pennsylvania road on a rainy day, and I'm sure with his usual care, coasted his car to the low point of the curve where he could be most readily seen, pulled off, and he was changing his tire. It may not have been very far to make it to the nearest gas station, but he wouldn't have done that because it would have been disrespectful to the workmen who made the tire and the one who was going to repair it to drive on a flat tire. Respect for things is at the heart of our Soto Zen practice. I was talking with a new practitioner where I am now, and he said, he asked about the difference between Zen and other forms of Buddhism,

[13:59]

and I asked him what he thought. And he said, well, I think it's a lot of forms and rituals. And I thought about that for a minute. I thought, well, he didn't say it's about non-duality or not about emptiness, because those are the things we usually point to, at least philosophically. It's about the forms and rituals. And actually I think there's a lot to that, especially for our Japanese Soto Zen. Our literature is replete with stories of Dogen teaching us to treat each grain of rice like it's our own eyeballs, with Suzuki Roshi admonishing his students not to drag chairs over the dining room floor, not because it makes a noise in the zendo down below, but because it's fundamentally not a careful, caring, respectful thing to do. When I returned from my first practice period at Tassajara,

[15:01]

I was full of enthusiasm and youthfulness. I think at that point I was the heijikido here, which means I was responsible for the cleanliness of the zendo. And I was going around fluffing the cushions after a lecture, and Sogen knelt down next to me on the lower tan here, and he picked up one, and he fluffed it with great intention and care, not in the way I was, trying to make it just right. Often we treat things in a way that's convenient for ourselves. When we move the zabutan for service, we do it with our foot. Because it's convenient, it's kind of a lazy way, forgetting that that's actually Buddha's body, and that the fabric on the cushion will wear better if we turn it with our hands,

[16:06]

instead of moving it around with our feet. A good feeling arises when you take care of things, doesn't it? A good feeling arises not to just throw away something because it's gotten a little old and worn, but you mend it and continue to wear it. When you walk into the zendo, we don't walk with our arms like this, swinging to get to our seat. We walk in shashu because it helps us bring attention to what we're doing. It helps us wake up. The kale in your backyard will show you if you water in a lazy way, not really giving it enough water and not attending to it often enough. It turns tough and purple more quickly, I can attest to that. The dog will show you if you're harsh in your commands, yelling, instead of the gentle,

[17:07]

which coaxes him to walk right alongside you. How we treat things is a part of how we do everything. Treating things mindlessly, without our attention, creates a certain kind of habit energy, a certain kind of habit energy that can devolve, as Suzuki Roshi says, before too long we're actually fighting with each other because we're treating each other as objects. Be very considerate in doing things because it not only helps them last longer, makes our relations more harmonious, but it actually feels better and it helps us. It waters the seeds of attention and kindness. There's a term in Japanese for a certain kind of attention. It's called menmitsu. Menmitsu means attention to detail.

[18:12]

It means continuous intimacy, intimate attention, soft and subtleness, warm heartedness, thorough diligence, careful scrupulousness. Menmitsu, I think, is a fundamental teaching of how we handle things, how we handle things, meaning how we relate to everything in our practice. Continuous intimacy for that which we can't see, for that which we don't yet understand, but by the sensitivity of perception with our eyes and our ears and our hands we come to. There's a marvelous story I heard recently of a young woman who is working in her garden and she noticed something about the roots that they were trying to dig up and she was so curious about this that over time

[19:13]

she actually was drawn to explore it more and got a degree in some field of biology and came to understand that those root balls were a great entanglement of root balls involving, in this case, all the trees and plants in the forest and that there was a form of communication between them all, a form of communication so that nutritional resources would be shunted during times of stress to the healthiest trees, not the healthiest tree of one particular species, but the healthiest trees in the whole forest so that those plants could survive. What a profound kind of communication and intelligence between those plants. Who would have guessed that there were anything but dying trees there? But through that particular observation, that particular curiosity and openness,

[20:16]

that intelligence was seen. So respect is one aspect of harmonious living. This kind of respectful attention, this kind of continuous intimacy in attention, we might relate to mindfulness. Mindfulness is often thought of being the heart of Buddhist practice or one of the great foundations of Buddhist practice. Often it's termed in kind of contemporary secular life as being careful, looking out for. Traditionally it might be taught more as looking at internal states. Knowing what you're doing. Being aware of psychological, emotional, physical, personal functionings. But actually the kind of attention that I'm talking about,

[21:19]

that Mimitsu refers to, that Suzuki Roshi is referring to, is relational attention, is paying attention to what's happening in relationship. This is our Zazen. It's what happens by completely dropping away body and mind and a direct experience of things. Completely being a part of the fabric. It's listening to the blue jay and becoming the blue jay. It's aligning with, saying with me, and the dog comes right up against you and leans into you. It's that kind of intimate attention of becoming one with. That very recognition of mindfulness, this care in relation, transforms what sometimes looks like a kind of precise preciousness in our forms as if we're trying to control things or conquer them into one of great intimacy

[22:22]

and understanding beyond our usual ways of thinking about things. When we pay attention, the screw that doesn't quite fit into the piece of wood actually can slide into place, right? The fearful child holding a tantrum can be comforted in a way in which it calms and feels the relationship. The horse recognizes the human's willingness to align with and takes care of her. In fact, the horse was paying attention to me. Mindfulness is usually defined as nonjudgmental awareness, a kind of neutral observation, almost scientific, but I actually think that's not quite right. I think it's very important with mindfulness that we understand that there's sentience there,

[23:22]

and sentience in this relational interactive way, I'd say, has a limbic resonance. It's affective. It has some connectedness that goes beyond that which we can just see by observation. It's the component which Sojin Roshi often talks about as being our intuition. In fact, if it matters, biology would bear out that from even earthworms on up, we have the same brain. We're controlled by the same hormones, oxytocin, dopamine, serotonin. These all, which you control, are very highfalutin. Human consciousness states reside in earthworms and help guide their decision-making process too. This limbic connectedness and paying attention,

[24:24]

we call love. The third factor of harmonious relations. It's said in many disciplines of social service, a friend told me that when she was learning to work in the child learning center with disabled, disturbed kids, the quote that they used was, to learn to love, pay attention. To learn to love, pay attention. In this last quarter's Buddha Dharma, on Bodhisattva vows, it's said to open your heart, be mindful. We're all familiar with this kind of paying attention. You have it if you're fortunate in relationship, in your marriage perhaps, or with your children, that knowing the nuances of that person

[25:26]

you care about so much, the smile they have, the way they look a little draggy, that kind of quirky walk, that kind of knowing of them engenders a certain kind of love. We feel it for our pets, in our home, we know it in our children. It's not the kind of passionate love, it's a kind of affection. It's a kind of affection, and it's a little hard to put into words. I was thinking about what a joy it has been to work in the kitchen here. You know, each burner is different. Over time you learn that each burner is different, the pots, some of them are a little warped and cooked unevenly, and the rice has its own particular way depending upon whether you've soaked it, washed it, what grain it is. And when you're really paying attention to that

[26:29]

and in the flow and responding to it, it's a great joy. There's a kind of happiness that feels very similar to the affection for the rice, the love I have for my friends. I have a friend who's a rancher. She knows all 500 head of sheep by name. I think ranchers do, in part, because they know their life, their well-being is dependent upon the life and well-being of the animals they take care of, and they're deeply grateful to them. They're deeply grateful. It's a relationship, at least small farmers who have the time and care to do that and make those choices. So this kind of love is a relational love, one of great affection. And I'd say that it's possible to have this

[27:32]

whether it's in how the rice cooks, the dog thinks and feels what the horse is saying he needs, or the longing of the heart of the person whose opinion or action you can barely tolerate. That's a different kind of love. It's the kind of grandmotherly love that understands that there is suffering and that there is confusion and that you're willing to accept, not foolishly, but in a way that deeply understands that we all mess up, that we all don't see, and that includes me. I'm made of that stuff too. And can I open my heart and pay attention to what's underneath what's happening and to connect in that place? We may or may not have affinity for everything and everyone,

[28:36]

but in reality, everyone and everything has the same value. Whether it's a sequoia, a snail, a blue jay, the manure, someone who's pro-life, pro-choice, pro-gun, pro-life, black life matters, whoever you're supporting or not supporting in the election, they all have the same value. Now, how can we really do that? Like, really? Right? This is the fourth factor. It's called faith. It can be summarized by the famous quote from Anne Frank, Despite it all, I basically believe that everyone's good at heart. I think that's fundamentally a faith

[29:39]

in the Buddha Dharma. It's fundamentally a faith that everyone and everyone has Buddha nature. Everyone yearns for their wholeness. Everyone has their light. Everyone has the capacity. Can I see those seeds and respond to those seeds? It might have to be at a distance. You know, the Bodhisattva never despised, ran out of, ran a distance so that people pelting at him or her couldn't hit him. But to never despise, to see the possibility and to be open to it, this is having faith in the Buddha Dharma. So, the Dalai Lama says my religion is kindness. And I would say that kindness is made of respect, intimate attention,

[30:41]

affection and faith. So that's what I have to say today. And I wonder what you have to say, questions, comments or responses. Yes, Denise. The story with the horse is really powerful. And I'm really grateful for you sharing it. And I wish you were my family's doctor. No, I'm serious. My older parent is treated so, at times, you know, because the doctors are so good and the doctor cannot take, you know, her knowing something she's not supposed to know or whatever it is. It would be so wonderful for this country if someone would

[31:43]

show doctors how to handle people with that kind of kindness that you represent. I hope that would be you. Thank you, Denise. You know, I think when I feel challenged, I think my hope, my aspiration is to try actually to see the fear, to see what's underneath and to connect with that, to try and show the kindness I wish for because I know that that's something everyone needs. Yeah, it's not easy to do, but it's the best we can do. Lori and then John. I also was recommending your first story

[32:44]

and what I noticed, which was really interesting, is that you also talked about all the conditions that were provoking anxiety for you. And I just thought that was really an important point because I tend to falsely think that if I'm in my intuition, I won't get anxious. It will cancel it out somehow. And I just think if you want to say anything about how you hold your anxiety so that you are still able to find that bigger space. Yeah, thank you, Lori, for that observation. Again, it's not like I can always do this, but in that situation, I'm in a room with someone. I took care of folks here. I am a physician. I took care of folks here who are very like-minded. Their way of working with their health

[33:45]

and their bodies was very resonant. It's quite a different patient population that I work there. And it's not always easy to make a connection. I will feel a stiffness, a judgmentalness, or an exasperation, or an anxiety on the horse. And I think when I have those kinds of hindrance emotions come up, what I try to do is make the field wider. I know that when I have strong, aversive emotions that my field closes down and it becomes more and more personal and caught up in my ideas of things. And then I'm missing. I'm not seeing everything that's there. And I have a sincere intention to see everything that's there and include it in the field. It's so much richer, you know. And it's not so scary, you know. I'm probably safe on the horse,

[34:46]

probably. But can I open up wider and see what else is there? Because heaven knows, even though it's hard to believe, the whole world doesn't revolve around me. And it's not all reacting to me. Yeah. John and then Linda. Thank you for your talk. Beautiful, very moving. It's interesting, the part about the trees, the root balls, and the communication. I am amazed, if not surprised. I wonder if you, reflecting on this longer than I have the last few minutes, think that humans are missing something in the opportunity to be one in a field of resource and optimum being. And if your reflection has brought you any insight for what that might be or how we might access that and how it works for us here. Yeah. Vastly.

[35:48]

Vastly. We're missing, because we're so species-centric, you know, first we're self-centric and then we're so species-centric. The idea that people have needed to do research for centuries and centuries to decide that animals have emotions when all you have to do is look at your cat for 15 minutes. The richness of the world and ways of being in the world are vast. And just slowing down, paying attention, and being willing to understand that we're, just because we have the most control doesn't mean that we have the most light. Linda and then Ed. That was a really, really wonderful talk. I just wanted to say that out loud.

[36:51]

I think I have a certain reputation for challenging people. I just wanted to say how much I really loved the talk in various nuanced ways as well as sort of overall the way you presented the beautiful story at the beginning to everything else. And just to say that I really see your wisdom and love unfolding unmistakably. Thank you, Linda, so much. Back at you. Ed. Yeah. I'm wondering how you're kind of keeping your Bodhisattva vows with the more libertarian ideas in rural Washington. It must be, especially with your Bay Area roots and everything, how you're

[37:52]

dealing with that. Yeah, I think it's a work in progress here. Sitting here and having these conversations with you is a part of it. Being a part of this interfaith group, talking to the sangha I sit with is somewhat like this sangha in its outlook. So having conversations to try and open the field of our receptivity to ideas is a part of it. The person who lives Caddy Corner across the street from me has a great big Trump sign up. And so that's my political persuasion. There may be some people in the room who support that candidate. And please just know I'm talking from my own perspective here. But I see the graffiti that goes up on that sign and I see it get erased

[38:54]

and I actually have pain that that's the way people are interacting because neither side is helpful. You know, the everyone has said from the Dhammapada on up through Martin Luther King that hate does not change hate. Love is what brings about transformation. So I try to see a connection and I try to be kind. And I see that as a place to start. I see the stick up, but I don't know if there's one or two last questions. Ben, I can be really quick. I also was love that you shared the information about how the forest is connected and communicates. And there was actually a wonderful podcast on Radio Lab two weeks ago that goes into a lot of detail that I just wanted to say that if anyone wants to look up that podcast, it really blew my mind and also involves the mycelia, the

[39:55]

mushrooms that actually have this symbiotic relationship with the root systems. It's really a stellar podcast. Thank you. In fact, it was Elaine Webb's niece who played that podcast that made its way into this talk. Yeah. OK. Well, thank you very much.

[40:14]

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