What I mentioned yesterday about the living imbalance is the goal of spiritual life. Spiritual life is... Spiritual life means... The willingness of sharing compassion with others. And the willingness of suffering from others. In other words, the willingness of suffering with people and all beings.

[01:07]

The other one is the willingness of sharing compassion with others, other beings. This is a spiritual life. I think the willingness of suffering with other beings doesn't mean taking the other's suffering to you or to the subject. Other's suffering and your suffering are not separated. So if you look at the functioning of your consciousness in everyday life, I think you can see deeply the suffering in your life. And that suffering is simultaneously projecting into other's suffering. So very naturally, smoothly, without any effort, other's suffering comes into your life.

[02:17]

So even though you don't have any effort to take other's suffering to you, other's suffering comes into your life. So very naturally, you really experience no sense of attachment to your suffering, to your own suffering. But usually if you suffer from your life, I think most people feel suffering of their own, which nobody has it. So that is really attachment, that is very prejudiced toward suffering, misunderstanding of suffering. But that is automatically you do, constantly. Automatically means your ignorance makes misunderstanding of suffering.

[03:24]

But suffering is very universal. But on the other hand, generally speaking, suffering is individual, different suffering appearing in the individual life. So I think we should deepen your individual suffering without attaching too much. So constantly you have to practice holding on and let it go, holding on and let it go. This kind of practice is very important. Holding on means you have to face the individual suffering without hesitation, without fear so much. Anyway, bravely you should face individual suffering and then simultaneously you have to practice of letting go. That's really difficult.

[04:25]

When you practice of letting go of individual suffering very naturally, you can see suffering in a broad perspective. Then that is really suffering, other suffering comes into your life. So this is a spiritual life. Spiritual life. This is a spiritual life. In order to accomplish spiritual life, I think we should have living in vows. Otherwise it is very difficult to help your life and others' life. Or living in peace and harmony. I mentioned always spiritual life is to live with all beings in peace and harmony.

[05:26]

How can we live in peace and harmony with all sentient beings? So that's why I mentioned spiritual life means willingness of sharing compassion with all beings. And also willingness of suffering with people. That practice is very important. Then you can really deepen, polish the spiritual life and spiritual life comes into your life. So, living in vows is the goal of spiritual life. Even though you don't understand what the goal of spiritual life is, we have to move toward the direction to that goal. In other words, you should know the direction.

[06:30]

In which direction to go. Even though you don't know what the goal is. You don't know what the goal of spiritual life is. Anyway, you should aim at. Is that clear for you? That effort is very important for us. So that if you try to take care of your life in a certain direction to go, I think your life is very rooted in everyday life. Because to go to a certain direction is actual practice everyday. But the goal is something far from us. So if I say living in vows, we don't know what it is.

[07:31]

But this is the goal of spiritual life. But we don't know what the goal is. So that's why we have to show the goal of spiritual life. This is a teaching. Buddha's teaching, 18,000 scriptures. Buddha mentions what is the goal. So let's go to the goal directly or smoothly without going zigzag so much. As best as we can, we should reach the goal directly. But it is very difficult to do this. That's why it really takes time according to the individual karmic life. That's why the teacher has to teach individually. Giving his hand to the individual and working hand in hand.

[08:36]

This is actual practice, actual relationship between a teacher and a student. So that's why Buddha mentions like this. But Buddha always walks. Walks with people, with his disciples, hand in hand every day. And when we see something, immediately he talks about something with disciples. For instance, if he sees the whirl of the river, then he starts to talk about the samsaric world where human beings live. And they always watch the world and suffer very much. So he takes that reality and talks about human life with the disciples like this.

[09:46]

So it's very concrete guidance. So that is the relationship between the people and the teacher. Particularly in Zen, I think that we call zi xin, living and practicing with the teacher very closely. Zo xin, I mentioned yesterday, Zo means garba. My life becomes a garba. Then my body is in the garba. Zo is garba, xin is body. Zo, garba, uma. So my body is in the garba. My body and mind are absorbed into the garba.

[10:47]

That is zo xin, we say. Yesterday I mentioned the right understanding, the right thinking. Gan ze ri zo xin means your body and mind are in the garba, within the realm of the Buddha's eyes. That is really right thinking. So in the practice of Zen monastery, naturally we have to practice properly in everyday life. So my life is exactly the teacher's life. So there is no gap between. But there is no particular pattern on how to be close. Because Dharma is one. But in the one and the same ground, so called Dharma, there are many beings, different beings coming up. This is various aspects of human life.

[11:49]

When you get up in the morning, I get up in the morning, you get up in the morning, and teachers get up in the morning. Everyone gets up in the morning in the same way, in the same one pattern. But the complete quality of getting up is different. Do you understand? Swimming in the ocean, swimming in the ocean, I can swim, you can swim, you are present in the ocean. But how can you swim? I swim, you swim, but different. And finally experience is different. Taste is different. So from this point, I think there is no particular pattern because there are so many aspects of the beings' existence coming up in the same one pattern. But Dogen Zenji and the ancestors, the Buddhas,

[12:52]

we try to take care of individual different patterns should be taken care of 100% as best as we can. I mean, we try to go, we try to reach the destination straightly, directly, 100% without zig-zag, okay? That is pretty hard. But we say always we can't, it's impossible. But it's possible, exactly, it's possible. This is Buddha's teaching. That is, Buddha mentions, you are Buddha. All sentient beings are Buddha. So we should completely accept and then we try to walk. So I think that's why in the Zen Monastery, always the teacher sees the person, the disciples, everyone has two kinds of personalities,

[13:57]

weakness, strength, and what would you say, active and non-active, passive and affirmative, and not showing off, what would you say, showing off and going further and withdraw type. Extrovert. Yeah, extrovert. Introvert, extrovert, something like that. And the teacher accepts both personalities as equal as Buddha. Then in everyday life, he shows extrovert pattern of life. Immediately he took it and put it in the opposite situation. Introvert, something like that. So very naturally it's coming up, it's keeping balance. Both can be kept in balance. But for disciples, we don't understand it.

[15:00]

We're mad, usually we're mad so much. We're angry so much. But this is very important because if teacher do, teacher does for you, completely unsatisfactory for you. It's the opposite. You're right. So that's pretty hard for us. So, but teacher always do it. That's why Zoushin is very important. Zoushin, we say Zuishin, Zuishin. Body, completely following the body. Following the body means do something with the body. If you see human world deeply, so-called wisdom, all sentient beings are one, the same, so-called Buddha nature. Then next with the body you have to manifest it. This is compassion we say. That is Zuishin, following the body.

[16:04]

Following the body. But usually we say we take care of religiousness, spiritual life with following the mind. Do you understand? Always mind is always going and seeing the spiritual world. That's why we say spiritual life. But you cannot have spiritual life with only mind. So important point is we have to study the spiritual life with the mind and with the body. That's why in the Shobo Genzo, there is a first course called Study with the Body and the Mind. This is a very interesting chapter. I think you can find the translations. This is a new translation. Do you know this translation? This is a new translation. This is a new translation. It was given from my friends in NIH Monastery

[17:10]

this time when I went back to Japan. This is a new translation. Shobo Genzo translated by Yuho Yokoi who translated Master Dogen. Zen Master Dogen. But I don't read it yet. So I don't know whether it is good or bad. But it's really nice. You can see the whole chapter. Seventy-five chapters. After you read it, please tell us what you think. What do you think of Luna Nidudra? That is a pretty good translation too. Pretty good translation. So I think within this book you can see. It is just like a Bible, isn't it? So Dogen Zenji mentions

[18:13]

what is study with the mind and what is study with the body. It's a very interesting chapter. So you can... I think so. But body and mind are not separate. Body and mind are not separate. Exactly both are one. So that's why when you do something when you help somebody with your body that is simultaneously compassion backed by wisdom. Which is understood deeply with your mind. Otherwise your help doesn't work. So help must be anyway going and taking care with your body backed by your mind. This is important. So body and mind are one.

[19:17]

So today I would like to say one point. How we can accomplish this living in Vow. I think I can say there are two points. No, three points. First one is that the observation of impermanence. I think in Buddha's Shobo Genzo and Gakudo Yojinshu and Dogen Zenji constantly mention about impermanence and also Buddha mentions impermanence. There are two ways of understanding about the impermanence. One is

[20:27]

impermanence is understood in the usual sense. From the impermanence you can feel everything kind of the swiftness of change. Swiftness of change. And also on the other end you can feel a kind of pensiveness. Pretty pensiveness. On the other end you can really feel a kind of pleasure. Exactly not pleasure, joy. Because changing you can do always creating lots of excitement there. So from the impermanence in usual sense you can experience pensiveness and also joy.

[21:28]

But I don't know exactly the difference between joy and pleasure. But joy is a little bit deeper than pleasure. But let me say pleasure. So pleasure and pensiveness can be experienced by impermanence in usual sense. The other one is that impermanence must be understood very deeply. In terms of instant what Shidogen Zenji mentions in Bodhichitta. Bodhichitta arousing the way-seeking mind. Think the instant. Without understanding the instant you cannot arouse the body-mind Shidogen Zenji mentions. So instant

[22:31]

understanding deeply with your body and mind instant is very important for us. So let me say instant. I think number doesn't matter but Shidogen Zenji mentions the instant consists of 60 instants. One instant consists of 60 instants. So that is one snap. Sound of the snap this is called instant but when you hear the sound of the snap already you have 60 instants in it. In other words you don't pay attention. 60 instants you forget because you just get it. The one instant with 60 instants in it. So that is

[23:34]

you can feel how instant moving at super speed. But our consciousness is always involved in what would you say A side and B side. Between we don't understand this one. A moment A instant to B instant. The moment moves from A to B. And then A instant is kind of a result of the time of change. Then you say life. Then life is completely if you understand the life that life is not real life because that life is result of life. Opposite to death. And then immediately

[24:36]

next you go to the death and then death you understand the death but that death is exactly result of the time of change. Opposite to life. So that's why you say what is life? Death. Death is the end of life. What is life? Life is before death. So very naturally life is separated from death. Then we usually we understand the life but you never understand life. Then we say we understand death. No, we don't. How do you understand? Well, I would say do you understand? Do you understand extinction extinguish? Extinction is extinguishing. Do you understand? How can you understand? Instant is moving.

[25:38]

The instant is moving. How can you understand moving is moving? Usually we say life is understood. Death is understood. People understand but we don't understand death is dying. Life is lifing. We don't understand. Zazen is zazen-ing. You don't understand but usually I do zazen and then I feel good then I understand zazen. This is a kind of drag of zazen. Do you understand? Drag of zazen. Always A instant and B instant you always understand the result of the instant of change in the stream of change. So, the moment I think you should understand

[26:40]

not understand you should pay attention to that situation which extinguishing extinguishment extinguishment extinction excuse me extinction is extinguishing you should pay attention to this. This is a what? Dying is death is dying not death is death. Life is lifing gassho is gassho-ing you should pay attention to this. And then you should ask yourself do you understand this one? When you do zazen exactly do you understand that zazen is zazeing do you understand? Or subject is subjecting can you?

[27:41]

Who is doing zazen? Do you understand yourself? Exactly like this. Finally nothing. You don't understand it. But actually you are doing zazen OK? Or another example is when you wake up the moment when you wake up you say I wake up but what is this? Waking waking at the can you understand waking is waking no you just through go through motion movement practice we call practice but that practice is exactly motion and movement at super speed so you never touch it

[28:42]

you don't understand it with your consciousness but everyone go through this way so that is instant so that is second meaning of impermanence you have to understand this impermanence then finally that impermanence is no longer touch it what impermanence is? finally you can touch the core of your life based on instant stream of time then Dogen Densho Mason's impermanence is Buddha nature so impermanence is no longer a sense of pleasure no longer a sense of pensiveness but Buddha nature itself means truth itself means Dharma which is supporting

[29:43]

upholding your life as a whole whatever you feel this is your basic nature of existence so called impermanence when you say pensiveness do you mean as well as a sense of thoughtfulness also some quality of sorrow? sorrow yes pensive side sorrow side of the human life and opposite positive and negative so that is that's why Dogen Densho Mason's you have to anyway observe impermanence and then if you understand very deeply the significance of impermanence then you can practice that is simultaneously practice of egolessness because no self there

[30:44]

no self who try to touch what impermanence is so very naturally if you observe if you practice observation of impermanence naturally you can ego consciousness drops off this is practice of egolessness so next second one is again I say you have to practice the cutting off the root of ego consciousness cutting off root of ego consciousness ego consciousness means in general speaking six senses six senses cutting off

[31:47]

the root of ego consciousness in the Buddhist psychology I think six consciousnesses you know the six consciousnesses and the seventh consciousness is called Manas Manas is the source of ego consciousness in other words six consciousness always get the information from Manas, the source of ego consciousness so Manas is pretty powerful pretty powerful and also Manas is connected with six consciousnesses and also eight consciousnesses so called Alaya Vijnana Alaya Vijnana is the universal aspect the universal consciousness which is

[32:50]

always going like a waterfall this is Alaya Vijnana under all circumstances it is going so the Manas source of ego consciousness is connected with six consciousnesses it is possible for us to experience the Alaya Vijnana truth even though we don't understand what the truth is ok with consciousness we cannot understand the truth exactly but the Manas is connected with the eighth consciousness means the place where Manas depends on

[33:51]

is Alaya Vijnana so this is something interesting that's why the root of consciousness this Manas Manas is very subtly moving vibrating constantly and stimulating six consciousnesses so that's why one of the characteristics of Manas is ignorance very basic characteristic of Manas is ignorance ignorance is automatically under certain circumstances it happens all of a sudden without thinking about self misunderstanding that's pretty good automatically we have self misunderstanding

[34:52]

in other words perverted views we take a perverted view of life of the human world so cutting off the root of ego consciousness according to Buddha if you if Bodhisattva reached the stage of the Buddha it mentions Buddha participated in the finest vibration of ego consciousness finest finest vibration of ego consciousness then at that time Bodhisattva reached that finest vibration the finest vibration of consciousness is we don't understand this

[35:55]

usually for example there is a guitar a string of a guitar stretched perfectly properly then when you touch it it's vibrating but in the beginning the string the string is vibrated coarsely very coarsely but gradually the string comes back to the normal situation and stops stops vibrating with if you see with your naked eye string stops vibrating but actually it's not still moving and also with your ears

[36:55]

you cannot listen to the sound of the vibrations guitars, music, no but there is still the finest vibration of the strings the sound is created but with the naked ear naked eye you cannot see it then the Buddha can be participated participates in this finest vibration of you know, consciousness what do you mean? Consciousness should stop we don't hear it we don't hear it means stop it so according to the awakening of the faith he said if you want if you want to reach

[37:55]

the Buddha stage you have to cut off the root of consciousness that cut off root of consciousness you cut off the root of consciousness means participate in finest vibration of anyway the consciousness means stop it another example is there is the one Buddhist in Japan who asked Zen masters he wants he is very interested in running the business so he asked the Zen master how can I run how can I run the business he wants to start to run the business but problem is

[38:56]

he said to the Zen master problem is I don't have money so how can I how can I have a business so Zen master says forget it because you don't have money but this gentleman says that is my problem I don't have money but I want to start the business then Zen master says how can I help you are suffering do you understand ok in other words our ego consciousness is always vibrating I want to run the business but I don't have money I don't have I don't have money but I want to have business so that is

[39:56]

in the beginning in the cause way of vibrating mind is moving like that like a pendulum but still ego emotion intellectually understand it you should stop it you should forget it but emotionally you cannot stop it because emotion emotion of the consciousness ego consciousness vibrating constantly vibration of ego consciousness this is stimulating stimulates the finest vibration of human consciousness so that is why even though he understands he should stop the thinking of the business but he cannot stop it so naturally

[40:56]

he sees the finest vibration of consciousness I want to do it very naturally this becomes suffering then if you are not lucky guys very naturally you are spaced out or you are put in mental hospital but he said immediately Zen master says stop it or how can you help this it is your responsibility not the teacher's responsibility because you become Buddha you have to manifest Buddha and in order to manifest Buddha you have to participate in this finest vibration of ego consciousness how? what do you mean participating in the finest vibration of the ego consciousness it means stop

[41:58]

that's why you are put in mental hospital then next the third one is direct transmission direct transmission direct transmission has two meanings one is Sanshi and Sanshi is usually I want to say practice but Sanshi is something more than practice so San is I want to say give up or surrender surrender I mean totally throwing away totally throwing away this is San San Sanshi is teacher

[43:00]

so you have to throw away completely to the teacher this is Sanshi and Monpo Monpo means listening to Dharma so Sanshi, Monpo and Zazen, Kuhu means Shikantaza so direct transmission has two meanings one is Sanshi, Monpo practice with the teacher and listening to the Dharma the other one is Shikantaza so Sanshi do you understand? Sanshi I mentioned already Sanshi is in other words Zoshin your body and mind is absorbed into the universe

[44:01]

or emptiness and that is how can you how can you be absorbed into the universe that is through serving the teacher anyway you can do it so you should throw away your body and mind to the teacher then you can learn what is the significance of Zoshin Sanzen Sanshi giving up throwing away to the teacher and then Monpo is listening to the Dharma which means to which means to let your ego consciousness free in the realm of emptiness this is Monpo listen to the Buddha's teaching not understanding

[45:03]

let your ego consciousness be free and pray freely pray P-L-A-Y let your consciousness pray freely in the Samadhi or in the realm of emptiness truth this is listen to the Dharma listen to the Dharma so listen to the Dharma is not to get the knowledge into your head not stuffing always a certain knowledge into your head you should forget that tendency of your ego consciousness ego consciousness is always trying to get certain knowledge and stuffing the knowledge into your head but Monpo to let the consciousness pray pray freely in the realm of emptiness means to

[46:05]

realize this limitation of the knowledge limitation of the knowledge that is listen to the Buddha Dharma listen to the Dharma and then Shikantala Shikantala is you do always Zazen exactly when you do Zazen you should do Zazen for the sake of Zazen because if that Shikantala is based on observation of impermanence impermanence in deep sense in deep sense you have to do Zazen being present in Zazen which is Zazen exactly exactly I say

[47:21]

maybe that situation is kind of filter filter of car in the car oil goes pass through filters immediately it becomes pure but there is no particular filter we can see in the spiritual life but that is instant full function of the instance that is kind of filter so everyone pass through passes through this filter everyday but we don't pay attention to it so that is why we are always involved in before you pass through the filter or after passing through the filter so always you are involved after this you you have

[48:22]

passed through the filter is so called purity then you embark that is purity is no longer pure because you attach to it you already stir up water of purity and then before you pass through the filter you already you know the sansaric word so we say dirty but what is if you put a certain level on your life so called dirty it's already dirty because you stir up but the I think the you have to understand the exact filter as it is what is in terms

[58:44]

of cultural background that's why you have to see individual cultural background with brave and with fearlessness and then let it go let it go means you have to sit take care of it and then let it go that practice is important you know no not dualistic simultaneously how can you let it go you have to exactly face directly you know otherwise you can let it go well that's why if you let it go simultaneously you all beings come into your hand yes full hands this is a tarot mentions anywhere if you let it go naturally all beings come into you can see you can see all things how do i get it in my hand in the first place if it isn't other sit down

[59:44]

that's it you know so that is a simple practice simple practice that's why if you sit down immediately you can see you can feel this with the body even if you let it go anyway then come back to the human beings and see who you are then it's really so-called zen buddhism and the buddha's teaching

[60:44]

itself um i'm with you on the letting go side it's the it's the picking up side that i have the impression that as buddhism has moved around the world it's tried to pick up it's tried to tailor itself and its teaching methods or at least its teaching methods to the culture and particular problems of the people that it faces and i it's really at that level that that's where my question comes up in other words you mean that you don't exactly understand the letting go and holding on something like that i'm sure i don't exactly understand no that's not your question no that's not my question sorry would you say once more again um

[61:45]

i remember um talking about um opening opening up to the other teaching while you were talking practicing the same practice here you struggling how to put it into words to present to katagiri roshi yes how to present his question he doesn't know how how to express his question he got inspiration from this morning but what did you say before um well would you repeat that once more yes maybe if

[62:52]

i speak more personally it'll help yeah right i find zen teachings as presented by you and others that i've heard present them um i find myself in relation to them rather obtuse i can't i can't i can't get into it you should probably tell me what obtuse means i feel stupid in relation to what's being said but something is being said that's very beautiful and perfect and in that sense dense i mean it's the thing you cannot get into it i can't get into it uh-huh that's pretty good it's all right i can't really get into that either no actually i find well i've heard a great deal more said in the

[63:53]

zen tradition and i've heard almost nothing of it from the tibetan tradition but in zen i have this experience again and again that i just can't you have an experience but you cannot get into it you can't that's it yeah that's pretty good ha [...] i wanted to say mostly to you i and in terms of i think uh practicing zen without having really to me as a real teacher is not having inspiration uh or embodiment and that seems like very hard because once we have somebody like you you feel body and mind what does that to you is

[64:53]

enough to inspire me to sit oh yes i can sit then things unfold yet not having that here instead sit and something was oh it just didn't happen really and it's very hard to uh to sustain this kind of practice without real inspiration yeah that's why we have to explain this is dogen mentioned that 95 first course and also through the system of education we have to learn this one why we have to practice continually just sit and how do we maintain that practice every day right and it's you know you can do like maybe few days and you get inspired but it's sustaining that and every

[65:53]

day and pinpoint like that and i i know it a lot of times they worked in my life and my life absolutely changed because of this practice and i feel very grateful yet it just it's very hard yeah but but you can see that you can see sustain you cannot see not sustain you cannot see the sustain or you can see sustain both situation but that both if you see both situation it's very good because your life is the root in down earth down earth down to earth exactly because that's why you can see both but sustaining or not sustaining you know if you don't you're obviously you know

[66:53]

stuck in sustaining and then you become arrogant right but you cannot do it actually in terms of the life down to earth you cannot do it because life real reality of a life between down to earth is exactly creating the symbolic world as a force you know sustaining or not sustaining obviously but it's very difficult if you see both because the what say afflictive preferences always make a choice one and if you see sustaining I like it if you see the not sustaining you don't like it so very naturally you cannot practice let it go so you are stuck and that is suffering

[67:54]

always and also you can't practice but you cannot practice so we get this kind of symbol place but actually what you not believe me but you should believe you who is exactly going down to earth exactly so all you have to do is just walk that's basically I try sure that's true and then but they're basically basic but by yourself going it's very difficult okay by yourself to maintain that life of reality including both maintaining or not maintaining that's why we need

[68:55]

help and explanation and encouragement okay sometimes somebody visits you hello Mayumi-san let's go something like that so that that's why we need a good friend as a Buddha as a Dharma as a Sangha at lunchtime we were talking about is there some place in Dharma teaching about where he talks about the specific way of cultivating generosity or loving kindness and after our conversation at lunch I was talking with someone and I realized that and I think this is characteristic of our tradition I've learned

[69:55]

a lot from you and from Suzuki Roshi for example just watching the details of how you walk around and talk to people or how you behave about loving kindness but that's very different it's been very different for me to also then study the mindfulness sutra and understand out of the Vipassana tradition that there's a practice called the practice of a half smile where there's actually something that I can do physically which helps me cultivate a way of being which I understand from having seen it expressed in other people who have been practicing for a long time and who demonstrate that quality a few days ago I talked to someone who's been a Zen student for 15 years who said oh there's a practice called the half smile I've been doing that

[70:55]

for years because I look at all these Buddha figures and I see the faces of these figures having this half smile I didn't know it was a legal practice but I've been doing it there's something about the articulation the description of at least in some aspect or some hinting or pointing our finger at what's going on or that may be something that's peculiar to us as Americans where we want also that kind of clear analytical descriptive aspect and I always have had the feeling that somehow I was a creep for wanting that aspect of description but I also know for myself I have felt encouraged when I read in a sutra or a commentary or somebody's

[71:57]

teaching a description of a certain experience helps me find my own language to talk about what I experience directly and that's the place where I feel aroused because when I listen to classical Zen lectures I come out of them half the time feeling like a complete idiot I have not the foggiest idea what any of us have been talking about and I don't know whether that's intentional or not or whether it's just on purpose you want me to leave your lecture feeling like a complete idiot I try to sorry someday I feel

[72:57]

like a complete idiot that's you know I'm sorry we don't have a particular specific you know things talking about openness or etc but if I say so well maybe I can say the four practical aspects of Bodhisattva practice I mentioned that is one of the particular you know practice about openness but strictly speaking we don't have I'm sorry but generally speaking we can learn what is real meaning of openness or half smile or not smile exactly half smile half open in your eyes

[73:57]

like this why we have to do this like that that is well through the whole paschal of the 95 Doggenzen I think behind between the lines you can see this one because Doggenzen tried to present Buddhism based on complete openness perfect openness one of my questions in studying Doggen is for that material which may be between the lines but which you can read you can read between the lines and I wonder if there isn't some of that reading between the lines which we may need articulated more specifically and if that's the case how do we do that how do we fill in well I think this is a question I think if you read something then we

[74:57]

obviously expect we have preconceptions we should understand something we want to get something this is already the question is that we have to read the time and the opportunity to face the book and the set that time is very important but we don't do it beyond the time or before time we are always groping something so that's why we need a systematic understanding if you want to know this you have to read A, B, C, D, E this is a kind of usual education so if you go to Japan there are lots of books what you have to read you know many people write the books when you want to artist you have

[75:58]

to read this one that one and how to understand this one many books there but this is not a way of taking care of spiritual life so first of all we have to open ourselves first what is important when you have to read okay what is important in other words who is reading that person who is about to read is who what kind of attitude so already there is ego but a basic teaching of practice of teaching is egolessness openness so already we have our ego and then try to learn the openness so this is the question so that's why Dogen Zenji doesn't explain so much concrete aspects usually this one

[76:58]

or that one he just presents you know that he presents the Buddhist world not so we don't understand it because it is a practice of egolessness so important point is even though you don't understand face it read it in other words if you want to be a great artist okay

[77:58]

if you want to discover this is a real picture or artificial picture or print picture okay all you have to do is even though you don't understand every day you have to face real picture original picture you can see this is our practice but we want to explain in the beginning the problem I have with that is that it becomes a cover for justifying perpetual confusion and I think that's a real problem I think what you're describing I completely understand and I know that there are times when being willing to dwell in that place where I don't understand is an important point in the continuum no problem to eventually coming to some clarity or some

[78:58]

understanding I have no problem with that but the problem with it is that it can also be an excuse for what Harry Roberts used to call doping off you go to the zendo and you get on your cushion and you go to sleep you just sit there waiting for something to happen it's very easy I think for me to lose my energy if I justify or I stay passively in that place of not understanding oh well it's all right for me to not understand and I think that's that's a difficult it's almost like a somebody you are in confusion for instance like what I feel it's like you know you can read about a painting but it's different when you take a you know a paintbrush and start working with a color then color is just vast information which is not the word it's your experience now you

[79:59]

are in with this color in confusion whether I'm doing it right or not and this is exactly what happened my son is doing a huge mural and he is just blissed out and doing it but he worries about it am I doing it okay so I just went to see him and I said you are doing fine you just keep doing it and that's what the teacher comes and says you are in a life prison of confusion and we don't have that that's so important the issue is not even right or wrong it doesn't have anything to do with whether that painting is correct there is no authority who is going to say that's right or that's wrong what it is is back to you and back to gee or whoever is doing the painting or the mural so this idea and I think this thing about literacy and this written word business we get so stuck in is it right is it correct is it the

[80:59]

right to have interpretation as opposed to getting back to facing it individually and very specifically with one self when I specifically try to bring up some kind of idea has to do with what happens in our study of Buddhism when we don't know how to talk about or describe or analyze our experience and you know it's a real knife edge because there is an aspect to that which is very fruitful and necessary and there is another aspect where it becomes an excuse for kind of infusion or kind of hiding and I think it's a real issue for us as Americans taking on having picked

[81:59]

up this tradition of Zen practice coming to us from Japan how do we now pick it up with a kind of presence as Americans which is I think part of what we're struggling with here in Zen Center right now historically I don't feel it's so much different from Catholic teachings or anything even from a Western point of view if you get back to the ancient Russian stuff that basically there's this ongoing issue of what does it all mean you know who was right who was wrong all the cultural implications all the political implications of how meanings change all that stuff and I see it as an ongoing problem in any spiritual world but I feel in a way that you're describing extremes in the sense that if a person says in each step of

[83:00]

the way now tell me am I right am I doing fine but he says mom show me about yellows show me how to make some yellows and you as an artist with your knowledge of color sure come on over you know and you sit down on the pallet and you make some yellows and the kid is encouraged oh I must say though I don't make many yellows possible but you also sure sure that's the same thing that's the same that's what he's saying that's what I'm pointing out that what the teacher does you know not necessarily I'm a teacher to my son but some guidance but I think what some of us are saying is that we have a feeling that the teacher will not show us how to do yellows

[84:00]

in other words not that we want them to explain everything and not that we don't ever want to be left to our devices to to kind of go it alone and have that experience but it's that yeah I'll give you a little teaching here that will kind of encourage you know kind of because that's all it is it's sometimes like an inspiration question is the question is anyway the individual is important the individual person who want to take care of a technique kind of a technique how to make a yellow okay question is the subject who taking care of taking care of process of making the yellow okay what kind of attitude you are facing to that process how can you participate in that process of the making

[85:00]

with the confusion or groping for or egoistic sense or in terms of your ideas or completely open listen to the teachers or what this is the point so all you have to do is you have to you yourself and the colors color making process of making color is not object you can technique separate from your life so you have to anyway you yourself must be very peaceful first otherwise you cannot make yellow as yellow is so you for instance I try to paint the pigeon okay and then according to the tradition according to the teacher and suggestions I try to pigeons finally I I paint the pigeons color good pigeons so

[86:02]

I always making trying to make a pigeon try to real but try to make a real pigeon is already color good pigeon so this is already that's why Tarot Talk says we not Tarot Talk only but ancestors Buddha mentions we have already ignorance means self misunderstanding preferred views this is automatic happens that's why even though we put yourself in the peaceful perfect situation we are irritated immediately because it's complete beyond understanding so because it's the unexplained experiential for you so that's why very unstable and uneasy

[87:02]

but there are certain things that you know about what um supports or helps cultivate a calm mind following the precepts so that's why yeah but you know you I don't I hardly ever hear Zen teachers talk about the precepts yes this time maybe toward the end I want to talk about the precepts spiritual precepts so Roshi we might not understand you but you're lovely to look at I want to

[88:02]

say something because um this analogy I did not know that you were the artist that's making these pictures around and all of this and also it comes right out of David's comment you know we may not understand you but you make a beautiful picture let's say um coming from a background of having studied something which is also very strict and difficult like a classical dance form same type of thing classical ballet nobody explains anything it is all form and they will not explain and you will say I don't know and I don't know and you will cry and you can't do it it's one of the worst ways to learn anything but in a way I am thankful because I have to discover I have to discover for myself how to do through the form and always there would be the classic example

[89:03]

what David just said always there were these incredibly beautiful examples in front of you and it would frustrate the hell out of you because here I am and there you are and I can't be this and why don't you give me the information and I don't know I mean it's a tricky thing but after the struggle it is mucky dirty ugly struggle finally you get something but even then you don't have it because every day just like with the zen you have to go to ballet class and you have to what you said about you know sustaining or not sustaining it's the same thing every day it's very difficult what I hear in the zen lecture sometimes like it was hard to listen this afternoon it's very sparse it's very you know intellectual it is but I could connect much more with it than the Tibetan things earlier because there was so much information so much going on that there was nothing for me to fill in except just belief that is in front of me and when this is coming I feel

[90:03]

more like I can connect with experiences of my own because there are these gaps and things I don't understand so that's just how I feel I find the Giririshi more like poetic like sometimes like with all these far out stories and images and Tarot and a lot of Tibetans I find to be sort of more textbook you know and it's sort of refreshing to hear it you know to me it's so much sort of nice to hear somebody saying well these are the six types of that and the five types of that for a while but I'm sort of hooked on the far out stuff too sort of like a hippie or something I don't know difficult you should learn anyway behind you should learn the Dharma

[91:03]

behind you should anyway personally that is our Zen practice ok you have to face beyond you know sustaining or not sustaining satisfying or not satisfying otherwise you don't understand personally otherwise you don't understand painting or dancing ballet you don't but within the no understanding within the cloudy situation of human life still you have to do your best to understand it for instance kindness what is the kindness we try to explain the kindness through the education but it's really vague but we cannot stop being kind to the people so all we have to do is walk on the street with happy hands and share your life with the people and then when you see yourself in the certain

[92:03]

circumstances so called difficulties then you can really touch the significance of kindness so very naturally you can learn what the real kindness is but but still through the actual experience of kindness still you don't know you don't know but practically it's really touch the your heart to communicate with the people but still we don't want to we cannot explain what it is that's why we have to learn how to explain it but if you start to explain we are completely stuck in one side forget this side if you if you experience the kindness through the actual experience actual practice we are stuck to it so we forget this I think the teaching stories are

[93:04]

so helpful because to learn directly is very difficult I work I'm a therapist and I work with dreams and I learn to think symbolically and I talk to clients with dreams and it's very indirect but it's better than the direct talking sometimes and the teaching stories are have been very helpful to me because they're the indirectness but still it comes in in an understandable way but not so direct Dawkins presents the way of life very deeply basic basic how to be master of the dancer basically what kind of practice what attitude you should face in dance form of each form of dance how this is the point beyond beyond how much you can you can learn about the form how much you understand the dance itself no so

[94:04]

try to present that basic attitude towards learning something so first of all that is perfect openness you have to perfect openness to the dance otherwise you cannot follow the teacher's suggestion because obviously something the teacher suggests to to guide you to dance perfectly you don't satisfy because it is completely opposite something opposite to you so but if you want to master the dance you have to continue basically this is a basic practice you just move you know like this but the ego

[95:05]

cannot keep your hands straight so naturally like this then the teacher comes like this that's it that is actual practice even ballet not ballet basketball basketball women's basketball prayers very strict practice you know but that practice is kind of from you know army training but Buddhist practice is not army training because we have to see human life through the life and death for long but basketball or the army training is we tame human beings for a certain period of time with a certain purpose you know and create human beings putting the human beings a certain

[96:06]

frame but Buddhism or spiritual life put yourself in not frame complete openness that is a training practice that's very hard but this is a basic way of life whatever you do otherwise you cannot do anything so well if you one of my friends the teacher Yokoi Yokoi he went he want to become a policeman because he loved Japan before second world war and he wanted to be a policeman he took the examination and he passed he has to go to

[97:06]

the police office and the headquarters and then they check the name and that days when he went there immediately he started to practice then first thing he had to start practice is this one salute every day like this every day from the beginning to end from the morning to the night every day then he started to think what do you want what are you doing this is this is love of Japan so he said he told the leaders I

[98:07]

have a stomach ache so he said go back to take care of yourself he never came back something like that so if you want to be a policeman you have to pass through this kind of practice it's ridiculous you know what are you doing particularly but policeman is a certain level and then you can put yourself in a certain frame so called policeman you know but a spiritual life there is no particular frame so called peace harmony what's that we don't know but if you want to master peace you have to put yourself in peace and harmony even though you don't understand what it is you have to move towards that

[99:07]

that is direction you know that is living in power okay that

[99:15]

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