Morning. Nice to see everybody. Haven't seen people in a long time. Aiko and Blake and Carol and Jerry and my friend Ross who just introduced me and Penelope and Susan Marvin and Patrick and all these old friends. And Hannah, our sewing teacher at Blue Mountain. So it's very nice to be with all of you this cold Saturday morning. And so I wasn't planning to give this talk today. I got a request a couple of days ago. Hosen wasn't able to be here with you today. So I was asked to give the talk. So here we are. So I've been lecturing

[01:02]

on here at Blue Mountain on not always so. So I've chosen one of the fascicles to share with you today. And as usual, I forgot my glasses. I'm needing them more often these days. Let's see if I can do it without the glasses. So this fascicle is called supported from within. So I thought it would be a nice fascicle to speak about. Given the recent loss of our dear teacher, Sojin, and that we are all in various stages of grief or not. And so I thought this might be appropriate given our situation now and how we feel supported

[02:12]

from within by Sojin and Buddha. You know, with Sojin, he had many students. And so he had a lot of people he had to help and teach and work closely with. So, you know, during so many years of practicing in BCC and practicing with him in and out. And of course, it was always the pleasure of most of the time to sit there in the Zen Do and sit with him. And he was always around. But in fact, you know, I guess I speak for myself because it's different for everybody. We didn't see him a whole lot. Although during different phases of the practice, there was a time when I

[03:20]

would run into him all the time, you know, in different, out and about in town. So even though I didn't see him, he would always show up somewhere. And so I always felt supported from within. And I still feel that now. I feel supported from within because of our own practice that Suzuki Roshi has given us. But also because, I don't know, this sense of same thing happened to me after my parents died. Their presence changed. I mean, they're no longer present, but they're present, right? And so we're visited in various ways. I don't mean to speculate metaphysically about that, just the

[04:22]

phenomenon. And so Sojourn is still with us. And then after death, it seems that the quality of the relationship changes. And just like I feel very supported by my parents from within, since their death, I have the same feeling about Sojourn. And of course, we're doing the practice that he gave us, that he taught us. So the practice itself is the support. And, you know, as we all know, when Shakyamuni died, or before he died, they asked him, what's your final teaching? And he said, be a light unto yourselves. And, you know, we kindle our light from the teacher's light. So from

[05:40]

the teacher's light, we kindle our own light. And then we have our own inner lights, the teacher's light is turned inward. And then we have our own light. That is our own light. And it's also the teacher's light and his Buddha's light. And that light is always with us as we move in the world. And Zazen itself, or Shikantaza, which is how we call Zazen in our school, just sitting, or silent illumination, which is the central focus of Sotuseno, Chaodong, Chan as it's called in China. That's the main focus of our practice. And we could say Zazen or Shikantaza is the act of how we become a light

[06:52]

unto ourselves. It's an act, Zazen is an act of understanding. We sit through understanding. We sit with our bodies. But we sit with understanding, understanding, through and through, sitting with our body through and through. And when we take, we decide to take up the practice, that's the moment of understanding. So our body is an act of understanding in many different ways. So now coming to Suzuki Roshi's text, we are firmly protected from inside, that is our spirit. We are protected from inside always incessantly. So we don't expect any help from outside. So no help from outside. Although

[08:00]

the teachers outside, you know, we teach the light, we teach the outside, but although the teachers outside is not really outside, the help of the teacher that seems to be coming from the outside is actually coming from the inside. In our service, after reciting a sutra, we offer a prayer to dedicate the merit, always dedicating the merit of our practice, not keeping it for ourselves. According to Dogen Senji, we're not seeking for help from outside because we're firmly protected from inside. This is our spirit, Zen spirit. We are protected from inside always incessantly. So we do not expect any help from outside. Actually, it is so. But when we recite the sutra, we say a prayer in the usual way. What he means by prayer in the usual way, I think we all understand this, is that we understand we come with

[09:06]

a background in monotheism where prayer is a prayer to a deity that somehow is outside of us, although that's also could be understand in different ways. In one of our dedications of merit, we say, may the two wheels, the two wheels of Dharma, the two wheels of the Dharma wheel, the spiritual wheel, and the material wheel. May the two wheels of the temple go smoothly. And may the calamities which the country and the temple may face calamities, like war, epidemic, famine, fire, water and wind, be averted. Certainly, there are many calamities right now in the world. So the urgency of our practice is even more, even more, evermore. Although we

[10:18]

say this, actually, the spirit is different. We do not observe a way or recite our sutra to ask for help. That is not our spirit. When we recite the sutra, we create the feeling of non duality, create the feeling of calmness and strong conviction in our practice. So we have strong conviction, strong faith, strong conviction. Although this is not without doubt, of course, we understand about doubt. Sometimes we have strong conviction and faith that people say, Oh, how are you so sure? How come you're so sure of your convictions? Nobody told us to believe dogmatically. Right? But the conviction comes out of the practice and the faith. If that kind of feeling is always with us, we will be supported. It will become

[11:31]

involved in dualistic selfish practice to support our building or organization or to support our personal life. There is not much feeling in our sitting on our or chanting. So we can't, if the practice is focused on trying to get something for ourselves or for teacher or teaching or, or organization, then the spirit is not so strong. With strong, when we have strong confidence in our way and do not expect anything, we can recite the sutras with a deep calm feeling. That is our actual practice. Dogen Senji says, also says that we don't do not have any idea of dirty or pure, or any idea of calamity or disaster. So we have idea of

[12:39]

calamity or disaster right now. But he says, we don't have any idea of calamity or disaster. But even so we have the practice of cleaning the restroom. Even though your face or mouth or body is clean, when you get up, you should wash your face and clean your mouth. If you think cleaning the restroom is dirty work, that is the wrong idea. The restroom is not dirty, even though you don't clean it, it is clean, more than clean. So we clean it as a practice not because it is dirty. If you if you do it because it is dirty, that is not our way. So Buddha is one of the first shocking statements I heard Dishimaru say was Buddha is shit on a stick. I thought it was so irreverent. But that's the spirit of the shit. The shit in the bathroom, excuse me for speaking this way, is not dirty. Even though we have to clean it and flush it because

[13:44]

otherwise we get sick. But it's not really dirty. And the bathroom, we don't clean it because it's dirty either. We don't clean our house because it's dirty. Although sometimes we develop ideas of pure and pure or what's clean or dirty and it perturbs us. But it need not perturb us. But we clean anyway. That's the spirit. Our belief is that if the Dharma wheel is turning, then the material wheel will be turning too. It's an interesting, it goes now into an interesting point. If we're not supported by anyone, it means our Dharma wheel is not actually going. This is Dogen Senji's understanding. And I have tested whether it is true or not. He says, especially during the war when I did

[14:49]

not have much to eat. Most priests work to earn some money to support themselves and their families. My belief was that if I observed the Buddha's way faithfully, people would support me. If no one supported me, it would mean that Dogen's words were not true. So I never asked anyone to give me anything. I just observed the Buddha's way without working as a teacher, or as a clerk in the town office. Now this is an interesting juncture. What does he mean? Why does he seem critical of a priest working as a teacher? How do we understand that, given our

[15:49]

practice? And BCC is kind of experimental. It's been an experiment in the making for many years. We all are the experiment. So why would he mind if a priest working as a teacher, or as a postal worker, or as a clerk, wouldn't be that spreading the Dharma? I think that he says this, because he was concerned that the priests who were wearing suits or shiny shoes, as he's going to say in a minute, were sort of too involved in the material wheel, so that in disregard of their practice, and they weren't really sitting on a regular basis, so that being pulled by the mundane pulls you away from the practice. I think

[16:54]

that's why, in any case, that's what I think about that. So then he said, I raised some vegetables and sweet potatoes in my temple garden. That is why I know how to raise vegetables pretty well. I had a specious garden in front of the temple. So I dug up the ground, took up, took out all the stones and put in manure. Some villagers came and helped me and we grew vegetables and we had a good crop. So we know also that this is how Sojin practiced. He followed his teacher. And he created a vegetable garden also at BCC a long time ago. And he didn't work outside being a priest or outside BCC and didn't handle money.

[18:07]

So that's one model, but he never really actually, if you have a different experience, please share. But he never actually encouraged us to practice that way. He encourages to have the practice, the experiment at BCC where we, the lay people want to sit like the monks. Whereas in Japan, the lay people support the priests but don't necessarily keep the Zazen schedule. And I think Suzuki Rush's concern was that even the priests now were not keeping the Zazen schedule. So our experiment was to be lay people but to practice like monks. And it's not so easy if you live in the world and have families and responsibilities and whatnot. So that's been part of the experiment.

[19:19]

And he says, one day my neighbor came to help me cook. When she opened the rice box, there was no rice at all. I had a pretty big rice box. She was astounded. So she brought me some rice. It was only a little. She didn't have much rice. But then my neighbors and members of my temple collected rice. I had quite a few members. So I had quite a lot of rice. When people found out that I had a lot of rice, they came to the temple. So I gave them the rice. So I gave it to them. So he doesn't have any rice. They bring him rice. Then he has a lot of rice. Then other people don't have rice. Then he gives them the rice. So that's the way he practiced, right? Sort of giving and then not worrying about receiving, but always receiving, always giving and always receiving.

[20:29]

And Sojin also spoke like that, like Suzuki Roshi in this way, where he often talked about how he didn't worry about too much. Although he did worry, but not too much. And he just focused on his practice. And then if his practice was good and sincere, then the needs of the people around him would be fulfilled. The needs of the Sangha and of his family would be met. That was his strong conviction. And that may be not just for priests. I mean, that may be the general way to understand the economy. That's how symbolic exchange functions in its purity, or it should function in its purity. Meaning this is kind of part of the invisible hand. The invisible hand is the link between the call and the response, the offering and what you receive back. You don't offer anything, you don't receive anything back.

[21:44]

So we have to offer first from our spirit. And if everybody focuses on their dharma position and their practice in the material world, Sojin says the secular world is Buddha's world. There is no secular world outside Buddha's world. So if everybody does what they do best and express their spirit wholeheartedly, productively, then everything works. Total dynamic working. But that requires a different kind of spirit. And usually the material wheel is run by the ego and gaining idea instead of just sincere, complete practice, giving yourself completely and offering something useful to the world.

[23:08]

Then symbolic exchange works. At that time, most people who lived in the city went to the farming families and exchanged whatever possessions they could for food, potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes, and pumpkin. So they had a kind of market exchange. I was speaking to somebody I work with who lives in Bosnia, and Bosnia now is a pretty much destroyed country and people are having to exchange food. Most of the time, I have plenty of food, but I didn't feel so good eating something different from other people. So I tried to eat the same food as they did.

[24:16]

Here at the Sahara, the food is wonderful, strong and rich in comparison to the food we had in wartime. So I had not had any complaint about the food. If we observe our way strictly, we will surely be protected by Buddha. We will trust people and we will trust Buddha. Since the war, Japanese priests have started to wear western suits, giving up their Buddhist robes. I'm not sure how prevalent that is or how much you have heard about that. Japanese priests are not giving up their Buddhist robes unless they're performing a funeral or memorial service. So I think the concern there is not so much because Sojin thought that when we left the temple, we should wear ordinary clothing.

[25:18]

We shouldn't be walking around with special robes standing out from other people. So better bodhisattva practice is just to blend with people and then practice there. Although, I mean, this has been a, some people disagree, you know, some people think monks should wear robes all day. But if you wear robes all day, it's difficult to engage in the ordinary world without sticking out too much. But sometimes people think that, sometimes monks think that, sometimes lay people think that.

[26:25]

I've had lay people tell me, oh, you know, if you're a psychologist, you know, that means you're in the world, you're not really a monk and you shouldn't wear robes. You should either not wear robes at all and just be a lay teacher or wear robes and wear them all day. So we all have many different ways of thinking about this. But the idea is not to wear the robes without the practice. You wear robes without the practice of shikantaza. And then we're just performing social ceremonies, which however valuable they may be. But the robe and the practice in the ceremonies is not rooted in dharma. And I think that was the Sibirish's concern. When I was coming to America, almost all the priests who were going abroad wore good suits and shiny shoes.

[27:29]

They thought that in order to propagate Buddhism, they had to be like the American people. But their heads were not shiny. Their hair was pretty long and well combed rather than shaved off. But even though they buy the best suits and the best shoes, Japanese are Japanese. They cannot be American people and American people will find some fault in the way they wear their suits or shoes. This is one reason why I didn't come to America in a suit. You know, I used to have long hair when I was younger, you know, in the 20s. Those were the days. And I thought, oh, why do we give so much importance to the hair? Is it more a question of what's in your mind than how long your hair is?

[28:34]

But eventually I let go of that. The surgeon always told me to just keep my hair short. And I had difficulty shaving it because I was concerned. You know, when I shaved it for ordination, my patients got worried that I have cancer in the clinic. A lot of people, when they have a psychotic break, they shave their heads. Are you having some kind of crisis? So it kind of stood out. So I thought it was better to just keep it short. And that's what the surgeon recommended. But now I shave it because I don't have much hair. And given my age, nobody cares. Nobody asked me anything. Why is your hair short? They just think I'm just old, you know.

[29:43]

Another reason was that I was disappointed with priests who changed their robes into suits to support themselves when Dogen said we are firmly protected from within. That is our spirit. We say we pray the Dharma wheel and the material will go smoothly forever. So there's different models of practicing, right? So he's thinking of the Dharma wheel, the material wheel goes smoothly by sticking to the Dharma wheel and not engaging in the karmic, samsaric wheel. But that, although that may be pure, it also creates a duality between the two wheels. On the other hand, if we're too drawn by the material wheel, then the Dharma wheel suffers.

[30:49]

On the other hand, you know, if we practice with both wheels, it's not so easy. Especially if we have families. But sometimes, you know, the Dharma wheel would make us neglect our families or neglect the material wheel. And then our families may get upset with us. And this was the problem with priests having families and being married. It's not so much an ethical thing or a question of sexual abstinence, but a question of being pulled by your responsibilities in different directions. And I've certainly experienced that in the years of practice, experiencing the pull of different duties and responsibilities. And so that's one of the reasons for the monks, you know, not to have families or be married so that they're not pulled by different responsibilities.

[32:00]

So to harmonize those responsibilities is not easy. And it all depends on the strength of our marriages and families and whatnot. And the support of the family and whether the family supports the practice or not. Or whether they feel that the family member who practices being taken away by the practice is more hurtful to the family than whatever merit or benefit comes from the practice back into the family. So it's easy to say, oh yeah, let's not be dualistic and just practice with both wheels. But it's not so easy to practice with both wheels. So therefore, Suzuki Roshi has a point. On the other hand, you know, you have people in our community who say things like, oh, I don't talk to anybody outside the Sangha.

[33:05]

I only relate my social link is completely constituted by within the Sangha. I don't talk to anybody who's not a Buddhist. Why don't I talk to anybody who's not a Buddhist? Oh, because if I talk to somebody who's not a Buddhist, the teaching tells me that I'm supposed to convert them into the practice. And since you can't convert anybody into the practice, because people have to come to the practice through their own will and desire. So then I can't do that either. So then, therefore, I don't talk to anybody outside the Buddhist community or the Buddhist Sangha. And you can see there's a logic to that. But it also restrains Sangha to just the Buddhist community. Whereas we have the larger Sangha, which is the world. Dogen says, if we do not practice our way with everyone, with all sentient beings, with everything in the world, on the cosmic stage, that is not the Buddhist way.

[34:22]

The cosmic stage. Not the town stage. Not the country stage. Not the earth stage. The earth stage is the cosmic stage. So it's a pretty universal statement, which includes everything. Nothing left out. Nobody left out. The spirit of Zazen practice should always be with us, especially when we recite sutras or observe ceremonies. It is not a dualistic or selfish practice, but it's calm and deep with firm conviction. When we practice in that way, we're always one with the whole Buddha world, where there is no karmic activity. Buddha world here means universal world, not just the, strictly speaking, the Sangha, Buddhist Sangha.

[35:31]

Where there is no karmic activity and our everyday life will be protected by the kind of power which pervades everywhere. So there's a power that pervades everywhere, but it's a different kind of power. It's not what we ordinarily call power. Usually what we ordinarily call power is selfish power, is ego power. This is a different kind of power, which actually is a lot more powerful, but we don't realize that. And the world of karmic activity, so if we practice in the world, the material world, then we have to be careful of not creating more karma for ourselves and binding ourselves in our own karma, which we do anyway. And then we have to practice it off. So we have karma is born through body, speech and mind. So we have to be careful what we do with our bodies. And we have to be careful what we do with our minds and the kinds of thoughts that we entertain and hold on to.

[36:46]

All kinds of situations emerge, not everything is calm or peaceful in life. We get angry. I used to have a problem with anger. My family in general, very sanguinean, in Spanish you say sanguineo, you know, it's like Spaniards are sanguineos, or the Native Americans, sanguineo, you know, strong blood. So that can make you quick to anger, you know. So, and anger is a problem. We understand psychologically it's inevitable anger, you know, we can't swallow it, we can't spit it. There it is. What do we do with it? But, but, you know, we can't live in a world with too many angry people.

[37:59]

Everybody upset with everybody else, for one reason or another. We don't like their system, they don't like our system. So just, Buddha says, he doesn't fight with the world, but the world fights with him. So how does practice, how does Buddha practice when the world fights with him? Does he fight back? He doesn't fight. So we have to consider that. You know, Buddha wasn't political, because he didn't want to get involved in the struggle for power, for gaining power or taking power, or helping people take power.

[39:07]

So he kind of looked with sadness as people fought with each other. On the other hand, you know, politics is also a vocation of responsibility for others, and taking care of other people, and helping those who can't take care of themselves. And so that's the function of government. And having the right government that serves the interests of the people matters. So we have to kind of find our balance there, in terms of what's the right action, what's the right action, and how do we not add more strife to the world, and more division, and more animosity.

[40:14]

And at the same time, not withdraw, or become cynical. Very easy to become cynical nowadays, because there aren't many ideals left. They've all been compromised, one way or another. So we have to, that's why everybody's depressed. We have to maintain the conviction and the hope, and the practice certainly helps us with that, to be supported from within. So we can remain somewhat of a positive presence in the world for as long as we live. So karma is also speech. So then we have to be careful to be well-spoken.

[41:18]

Because we're not perfect, we're not always well-spoken. But when we're not well-spoken, then we create some karma. And so we have to be careful with how we speak, and what we say. And the more mature we become, the more careful we have to be, in some way, with our conduct, and of body, speech, and mind. And if we're too involved in the idea of time, or taking care of the material world, we will lose our way. A priest will not be a priest when he's completely involved in dualistic practice. Involved in a busy life, in the busy mundane world. Well, Sojourn said, you know, when you go out into the world, just be completely deluded within delusion.

[42:26]

Don't be thinking about enlightenment, just immerse yourself. Assuming that the activity is wholesome, just completely immerse yourself in the activity, in the material world. So that's a different kind of meaning of being deluded within delusion. Meaning being completely involved in forgetting yourself. Which is not being completely involved in dualistic practice. Completely involved in dualistic practice is kind of setting yourself apart from others, and trying to gain something. At the expense of others. Because if we're completely involved in dualistic practice, then there are no more priests. Even though priests are there, they are not practicing the priest way. So Buddhism should be Buddhist completely. When a Buddhist really becomes a Buddhist, he will be supported as a Buddhist.

[43:29]

Thank you very much. Now we have time for questions. Anyone, please raise your digital hand and we'll see if Raul can answer your questions. You can also send it to the chat and I would read it out. Thank you. It's almost traditional for me to open my mouth, so I guess I will. When you talked about... Perfect for a long time, Nico, so it's welcome. Thank you. When we talk about Sojin Roshi in the deluded world,

[44:35]

how do you think he really saw himself, not how he wanted us to be, but himself in the world in his deluded way? Can you speak about that? Well, I think he meant just being completely immersed and not creating a separation between being a Buddhist or enlightenment and being completely immersed in burning yourself completely in the activity without judgment. But, you know, he often also spoke about how he would get really annoyed, you know, driving, for example. He would get annoyed with traffic, people cutting him off, somebody passing him and then slowing down, you know. And so he would allow himself, I mean, to get angry, right?

[45:47]

He said that, I think. I get angry, I just get angry. And I didn't always feel that way when he got angry with me, you know, but I wish he was more saintly at that point. But that's the way he was, you know. And so we just took him that way. But his anger was momentary. It was just a flash. Right? So he didn't hold on to it or let it turn into ill will towards anybody. So I think that was part of him being deluded within delusion, meaning not sure that moment of anger was enlightenment or delusion.

[46:48]

Not sure. But it was what it was completely. And then he didn't hold on to it. So I couldn't hold on to it either. Thank you. You're welcome. We have a question from Ross. Ross, go ahead. Thanks again. Denke, I really enjoyed what you were talking about with regard to the teacher seemingly being outside, but actually is carried within us. And I'm wondering how do we discern the teachings, things that we don't necessarily agree with or don't like, and having that be a part of us or not being a part of us, versus the things that feel sort of warm or encouraging or supportive that we have an easier time with. So how do we discern the difference between those two and prevent having something reside within us

[47:55]

that actually is not helpful or encouraging and actually kind of undermines our practice? Thank you. Well, I think I was sort of referring to that when I said that how I feel after, you know, because like, for example, with parents. With parents, it's mixed, right? So they're within you, but the influence of them within you is not always positive, right? Right. And yet, and I felt that like everybody else. Even up to, not with my father so much, but with my mother, you know, there's kind of some intense feelings. But then after she died, all that,

[48:59]

both with my father, my stepfather, and my mother, it's like all that stuff got washed away. And the only thing that remains is sort of the support from within and the strong connection. And I feel that with Sojin too, you know? I mean, I had difficulties with Sojin over the years, different times, you know? But it's not there anymore. It's gone. So how do we let go of it before they die? Well, I think we have to make whatever effort we can before they die to let go of stuff. I always recommend that people do that, and I made a point of doing that with my parents. They can't always do it,

[50:00]

because often they don't want to talk about it. And I couldn't do that with Sojin. But it didn't matter, because what was there, already firmly rooted and established, was so much meaningful and stronger than that. And I felt the love and the connection there behind everything. So with Sojin, you know, it wasn't because he's a teacher. He's, you know, it's different with Buddha than with your parents. And so I felt that it wasn't necessary. The last time I saw him was at his house and was a kind of faux pas,

[51:00]

because he had arranged for me to come over. Hozen had called me and said, you should go see him. So I called him, and so we arranged a time to meet, and then unbeknownst to him or to me, Liz arranged a meeting at the same time with Hozen. So we ended up having a meeting, the three of us. And he was quite warm. And the last bow and looking at each other's eye was quite warm and loving. And that's what I keep. That's what I keep. And I think that's our practice. That's how we, each time we sit, we let go of that. We recognize the things that are difficult and we let them go.

[52:01]

And then we allow ourselves to be different and we allow other people to be different. Every time. That's perfect. Thanks so much. You're welcome, Russ. Denke, we have a comment that you could respond to from Patrick. He says, over time, I've appreciated Mel's teachings. The ones I most disliked have become the most memorable and instructive. Thank you, Patrick. Actually, that's a teaching that echoes with Lakan. Lakan used to say the people that he appreciated the most were his angry critics or his fierce critics because he thought that that helped advance the teaching the most. And that echoes with Dogen who says,

[53:03]

you know, you cut twining vines with entwining vines. You don't cut twining vines with unentwined vines. You cut them with twining vines. So it's twining vines cutting twining vines. So that's how the transmission takes place. So there's always some entanglement and some misunderstanding. And that's part of the fuel for the transmission. And that was clearly part of Dogen's teaching. So I think you're in good company, Patrick. Thank you. And Jerry Oliva has a question. Go ahead, Jerry. Hi, Jerry. It's so great to see you. Yeah, so great to see you too. I've missed you. I miss you. We had a new lunch. Anyway, I was interested in your mentioning the insularity of the Sangha, how that can be almost a barrier in some ways

[54:08]

to really opening to the broader opening to suffering beings and our ability to just be ourselves with everybody. And by being ourselves, assuming that we've done our work, that's all we have to do. And it's important to really expose ourselves to other views so that we don't get trapped in fixed views or thinking we're right in some way. I agree with you, Jerry. Thank you for saying that. But I think, I mean, to give us some credit, I think that's part of the spirit of BCC and part of the spirit that Sojin gave us, because he practiced that way. He didn't insulate himself, although he lived mostly within the Sangha. But his attitude and spirit was broad and open to the world.

[55:11]

So I think we have that practice at BCC. As you say, Jerry. Thank you. We have a question from Susan Marvin. Go ahead, Susan. I don't see Susan. Where's Susan? I saw her earlier. Here I am. Hi, Raul. Oh, hi, Susan. It's good to see you. And thank you so much for this lovely talk. I loved that story that you told about the rice. I think the way Sojin used to say it was, keep everything in circulation. He didn't like getting gifts, because I remember him saying, don't be surprised or don't be offended if I give it to someone else. I've been thinking about that lately

[56:15]

and I wonder if you could say more about, or just talk about, as a priest and as a teacher and as a person, how you think about that. Keep everything in circulation. That's what I was saying. Being God we trust is just a piece of paper, but we keep the gold of the earth in circulation. Is it in the paper? It isn't in the paper. So we have to keep the gold of clear nature in circulation with each other. So that's part of the offering and the call and response

[57:16]

and keep ourselves in circulation. We haven't been much in circulation. I just got my first vaccine. I'll get the second vaccine at the end of the month. Hopefully I'll be able to circulate more. But Sojin was very generous. He didn't have much, but he always gave a lot. That's an example to follow. I also don't keep much for myself. I have people I help and people I support. So we have to keep circulating the merit. That's how we keep offering the merit. Sojin was generous with me.

[58:18]

He gave me some gifts that I have and I will cherish for the rest of my life. Thank you so much, Tenke. It's been wonderful to see you. Actually, we have a comment from Nina. Nina, we're just about out of time, but the concept of the two wheels seems itself dualistic, she says. And she says also, Sojin's teaching is less so. Can you comment on that in just a brief moment? Yes. That's what I was saying, Margaret, before. What Suzuki Roshi was saying, even though I would hesitate to call it dualistic, but the principle could become dualistic if you try to stay out of the material wheel and just live only on the spiritual wheel.

[59:19]

So in Sojin's, even though he had the same spirit as Suzuki Roshi, the way he practiced it and enacted was a little bit different because he didn't encourage us to wear ordinary clothes, like I said, and to be involved in the world, and that it was wholesome to have right livelihood and to be able to support ourselves and not have to be dependent on other people or be dependent on an institution for money or for support and then just go ahead and practice right livelihood in the world to be able to support yourself and others you love. Thank you, Denke. Now at the last, we have one more question, if you're willing to answer it in the time that you have. Okay, from Helen. Go ahead, Helen.

[60:23]

Hi, Raoul. Oh, hi. Hi. So I've been working with this idea lately that the meanest voices, the nastiest internal voices are the ones that need the most love. And I can't articulate why, but from my spending this time with you for the past hour, I had this revelation that that also goes for the outside voices. And I just wanted to say thank you. I don't know where it came from or how it related to what I heard you say, but I'm very moved by this revelation. So I just wanted to express my gratitude. Well, thank you, Helen. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. One of the practices I've recently noticed myself engaging in is when I'm lying down in bed,

[61:26]

sometimes before going to sleep, sometimes I get some negative judgments. I could see my mind going somewhere to make some kind of criticism of myself. Why did you do this? Or why did you think that? So then I noticed that. And then I start practicing loving kindness at that moment. And just opening my body up to the experience of love and warmth and radiance. And then I fall asleep. But we do have those inner voices, angry, critical inner voices that we have to practice with. By the same token, how we respond to other people's comments

[62:32]

that may be negative or critical or angry in the same way. So I'm not sure that answers your question, but thank you for your question. Or your comment.

[62:44]

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