Okay, please. So, as you, Roshi, said, change changes, and as soon as we are here, the individual changes. And this experience or this I always experienced when I came here. To be with Sangha and everything monastic or everything that kind of stands for the monastic practice here. So I experienced this, that coming here, this individual... perception that changed.

[01:25]

But this being an individual, we need when we are outside here in the outside world. Once I arrived here, this always kind of got diluted or changed. And I couldn't imagine my practice without the monastic part, and that's also the reason why I'm here. I wouldn't have been able to deepen my practice or it would have gotten lost somehow without that. Okay. And the first thing that I received or experienced here was that it is not really about self-identification. That it does work to not identify with the self.

[02:39]

And that it's possible to anchor yourself in something else, like the breath or the phenomena or the body, etc. And that this way suffering is either decreased or it just vanishes for a moment. And this is what I experienced over the years. And at the beginning, I often watched you, Roshi, asking myself, how can he be so relaxed and calm and physically relaxed? with the emphasis on the body. And I learned that to focus more on the body and to embody.

[03:57]

And this is also a very vast field as it goes in all the different directions. And it also melts the ego away. And to physically get in touch with other bodies. And what I'm now very excited about is the actuality. In the past, I used to be somebody who daydreamed a lot. And the daydreaming went away and the actuality is something that you really have. It's much better than any enlightenment experience. How do you know that?

[05:25]

I like your confidence. Everything you need is right here. Enlightenment, hell with it. Actuality is right here. It's what you can experience. Thank you, Hans. I haven't seen you for a while, too. It's nice to see you. I haven't seen you for a while, too. It's nice to see you, Hans. So what I keep sitting with or thinking about quite for a while now and what you, Roshi, have been mentioning for quite a while, that you are kind of in the process of saying goodbye or, you know, kind of... Or a new kind of hello.

[06:38]

Yeah, that's somehow true. I'm not... So I don't think that I'm losing you. On our train ride, I came together with Lona. We would read the questions and would work diligently in, you know, working with him. Did you record it? Yeah. We tell it. And you tell it. And I'm also my... I have a book where I have all my drawings and so on. I didn't go through it. And I've got a book with all the notes I took and this book, I went through that book from the beginning to now and while reading it and sensing into what I had written and also entering these inner spaces again

[07:49]

And then I noticed these changes within me and how your teachings have had an effect and changed me and have become a part of me. And not so much as a memory but really a felt presence. And just the topic, farewell, the farewell topic, saying goodbye. I grew up in a family situation where you just opened the door and left.

[09:04]

So I'm very aware of this space of farewell and I'm taking the time to dwell in this space of farewell this time. So there are these feelings and questions and also how I would like to continue to teach myself also Buddhism. And so I also realized that there is some kind of gain or win-win for me through you living this farewell situation so consciously and openly.

[10:27]

and not to have someone outside who holds lectures and so on, but rather to be thrown back on me and to have my own So what this does to me is that I realize that I'm thrown back towards myself, meaning I... look into my own practice how can i create that space and teach myself and practice without having an external like a person to refer to all the time so it's more like a self-referential activity at the moment for me So it's also in a way a growing up and, yeah, growing up for me to get more independent.

[11:57]

So it's about time we should have a break, but maybe, Gertz, you could speak and then we'll have a break. Well, I would like to take on again this phrase saying goodbye to Buddhism. My life is... So my life is kind of flooded with practice, so I cannot really differentiate between my life and practice. It's just one. The so-called life is the perfection of the moment. The so-called life is basically the perfection of this moment, of making it more perfect.

[13:06]

And in contrast, currently I feel, that a lot of things that are presented here in Johanneshof, And currently I feel that a lot of the forums that are presented at Johanneshof or other practices it almost has a feeling of exclusivity. And practice to me is inclusive. And practice to me is most of all inclusive. That's a short one. And that's the short version. Well, that's good. Let's see if we can explore this exclusivity and inclusivity. Danke, und ich hoffe, wir finden Zeit und Gelegenheit, das zu vertiefen, diese Exklusivität und Inklusivität.

[14:10]

Goertz and his family were one of the first, very early first people to move here to be near Johanneshof when we first got Johanneshof. Goertz and seine Familie waren eine der ersten, die hier in die Nähe gezogen sind, als der Johanneshof neu erworben wurde. And he arranged so that I would have to think of him every day. And he arranged a way that I'd have to think of him every day. Because he designed the door that goes into the hinterhaus and with a little triangle handle. Oh, Götz. Thank you, Götz. Because he designed the door that goes into the hinterhaus in Johannesburg. Going up toward the sender. To the sender. And that's why I think of Götz every day. So I feel included every time.

[15:12]

And that's why I feel... Yeah, I know. Okay, let's have a break. How long? I don't like to plan anything. No worries. Let's just see what happens. Okay. We wouldn't even let an electrician come to visit or the governor. But until we get the farm next door, you know We're going to have to see how we can integrate.

[16:29]

See, I say those things. So part of my farewell can be, you've got some things to do after I'm gone. I was just... I was just with Brother David Steindl-Rast for a couple of days in Luzern. He's an old friend. We were at Tassajara together in the 60s. The first practice period, I guess. Er ist ein alter Freund und wir waren zusammen für eine Praxisperiode in Tassahara, ich glaube in den 60ern, die erste Praxisperiode dort, glaube ich.

[17:33]

Und er ist 93, also zehn Jahre älter als ich. Whenever I hug people, I check out their muscles. And he's got muscles like a weightlifter. I said, geez, David, where did you get those? David, where did you get those? And this time we walked at about the same speed, but when I've seen him in recent years, every year usually in Vienna, he outwalks me completely. And the first thing I said to him was, was so how is it for a Catholic with a creator God in the Anthropocene

[18:41]

You know, the sixth extinction. And he said, that's a local problem. He said, we're all in the midst of this mystery. Sometimes we call it God. And he said, the word God also, he says, I don't know the etymology, one of its etymological origins is something that calls to you. And according to Brother David Steindl-Rast, the etymology of the word God is something that calls to you.

[19:46]

Something that calls to you. And I like that. Because Brother David calls to me, so this is good. And I was with Vanya Palmers. Do you remember Vanya? Vanya is 72. How old are you now? I'm 72. I'll tell Vanya I saw you and that you're the same age. And he's built a place called Felzentor in Luzern, way up on the mountain, which he's made into a meditation and Buddhist conference center, sort of. She used to be the manager of it, right?

[20:49]

No, not the manager. I was the assistant of the director. Oh. That's the manager. And Vanya's ears have even gotten bigger. He doesn't cut the hair. And he's got these two big bushes. He looks like a goblin. But it was great to be with him. And Brother David is so healthy, I thought maybe I should change religions. Yes. I would like to talk about two things and try to keep it short.

[22:28]

So one topic is practice. And I also attended last time, that was in August, Doorstep Zen. And I would like to tell you a little my experience from last time's Doorstep Zen. As far as the practice is concerned, it was a moment at some point, I know I just thought about it, but I don't care, because 11 years ago, when I thought, I would now like to commit myself to the practice and not make any more compromises. So regarding practice, so around about 11 years ago, I decided that I would like to commit to practice and not compromise any longer.

[23:49]

And back then, it really helped to work with different roles one has, so in private life or even professionally. Because I noted differences in how the practice felt for me and in a professional context it seemed easier. And I looked into the different ways it felt and I noted that it had to do with how I was rooted in And so through this practice the gaps kind of got less and less and so it became more

[24:59]

A space like without these steps. Integrated. Yeah. Yeah. So the experiences in practice that I especially made in my professional life, I used as a Yeah, as a blueprint for more difficult situations. So the less difficult situations were in your professional life.

[26:22]

Yeah, that's how I... Also in my professional life there were some difficult situations but somehow psychologically I wasn't so involved or so they seemed a little easier in a way. So that was the first topic I wanted to talk about. What is your professional life? So I'm working as a coach. I work as a coach for scientists. Oh, okay. So last time during Doorstep Zen, we got this text. So in the text, all what she just said...

[27:24]

was topic in the text. And already last time I noted that also within the group there was some change within me. And when I went home, I suddenly saw the world again. So it was clear that what I see in this abundance, So even when I went home, when I drove home or traveled home, I noticed that I perceived the world in a different way and there was a fullness or richness. And I could feel that this is within me. And then there was a phase that a lot of important experiences from my past came up again.

[29:01]

And within this fullness or richness, they got confirmed again. And actualization, yeah. Then we had also this word that you put up, inactualize. Actualize and inactualize based on enact. Yes, and I made this experience of the room accessible through coaching. So this inner space I also used in my coaching lessons or I applied it or made it available in my coaching.

[30:16]

Because I got the courage in the coachings to also name my inner experiences. And so my clients also, not even practicing themselves, they could perceive this space. And it was not like this outside and inside, but we were all together in this space. That's great. a new kind of science. Yes. I didn't see anything on the windscreen.

[31:23]

Oh. But I have practiced something that you have mentioned in August with phenomena Appearances. Sorry. And what to do with alternatives. So for me, in my professional life, there are really bad situations or Beep boop.

[32:32]

For example, when colleagues of mine just come into the office, like really like an elephant in the porcelain shop kind of thing. They stump into the office. Bull in a china shop in America, but in Germany it's an elephant. Yeah. So for my senses it's like a little bomb exploding around me when this happens. And especially my auditory sense is very sensitive because I also get then balance problems. Physical balance.

[33:42]

My first reaction when something like that happens is? I just shut down and turn around. But since August, I have tried to work with appearances instead. And alternatives. And alternatives? Du hattest auch Spektrum von irgendwas erwähnt. Also ich weiß nicht mehr, was es war, aber ich fand das Wort Spektrum gut. And you also mentioned something, spectrum and something, which I don't remember, but the word spectrum really helped me and I found interesting. Ja. Und habe versucht, in der Situation, also anstelle mich abzuwenden, And in this kind of situation, instead of turning around, I try to see it as appearances.

[34:49]

And within the spectrum of meditation postures, I was kind of looking in this situation, in these options or alternatives. So I try to develop a sensorium to use these different skills in these kind of situations. Good. And as a side effect, there's also the breath that kind of kicks in. And it seems to work. Thank you. Well, it's great when we get a sense of the craft of our own lifing.

[36:16]

A new word. Thanks for taking care of things. Thanks for letting me be here. You're welcome. They've recruited you for the kitchen, Gisela? Okay. All right. We'll enjoy your leaving in about half an hour. Yes. Yes. Hi, how's your little boy? He's now big. She's a daughter.

[37:20]

I mean a daughter. How's your little daughter? Last time I saw her, she was about this big. Twelve years old. Twelve years old. Wow. A preteen. Most of the time a joy. Yeah. Over the last three or four years, I've worked with Russell Delman here. With the Feldenkrais or embodied life. In this very room. Oh, no. In the Dharma Hall. It's too cold here for lying around, moving such small movements. And I needed the grounding of Russell's craft. And I feel like to find the right seat, the right sitting posture or so, has been going on for 35 years.

[38:53]

And I needed this physical sitting here at a point, at this point. And Russell also comes from the same lineage of Suzuki Roshi. But he kind of reduces the Zen quite a bit. It's more like a meditation class for beginners. But for me it was great. And then he uses focusing, which I know from psychotherapy, and I'm also a psychotherapist.

[39:54]

And this combination of bodywork with circle of life, psychotherapy and Zen, it works fantastically on people. So the combination between body work, Feldenkrais and psychotherapy and Zen, that works really very good for people. And myself. And because I haven't been always the core, I didn't agree on everything with Russell, so I now have just started to offer my own course. Which is similar. Very similar. So a big journey. And so now I thought I come here again to Johanneshof and see how it feels to be here without the training with Russell.

[41:07]

and also during the whole time during the training I was very touched, because I had the feeling that this traditional field carries us, or the different traditional fields carry us through this training or through our practice. And I was very touched when I was here during the training with Russell to feel the formal training here, the Zen traditional training that kind of carries us through also. Yeah. Russell Delman is a disciple of, was a disciple of Bill Kwong Roshi. Mm-hmm. And Russell teaches here two or three times a year or something like that? Yeah. So Russell is a student of Kuang Roshi and he comes here about two or three times a year and teaches here. And can you say something about how Zen practice is part of, a beneficial part of, or a part of your psychotherapeutic practice?

[42:43]

relationship with people. And can you say something about how Zen influences or supports you in your relationship with people in the psychotherapeutic practice? Yes, first of all, it is the quality of presence. It's the quality of presence. That also in the two-field or in the group-field everything matters. That is very important either if you're two or even in a group fields. And the whole mindfulness training comes out of Zen training. Yeah, thank you. One of the reasons I'm doing this and ask you to say something each Yes, which is I've been 50 some years I've been doing this.

[43:48]

And 55 maybe. And I sometimes wonder, has it been useful to anybody? So I'm interested in, now that I'm sort of retired, like, what happened? Has anybody... So if it's been useful, it helps me think about what I should do next and also what we should try to continue in the lineage. And sometimes I wonder, of course, especially now that I have officially withdrawn, whether it was useful at all for you what I have learned. And that's why this round. And it is of course helpful to think on the basis of how we continue, also how we continue in the line, in this line. Because the real, the lineage is a multi-generational beingness.

[45:14]

It's multigenerational right here, in that we are different ages. But this multigenerationality extends from the past and extends into the future. So I'm wondering how this lineage could, should, will continue. So you're helping me.

[46:18]

Thank you. And since we're already in the, in my opinion, and I think observation, we're already in the Anthropocene, the sixth extinction, So I think We need to, I mean, it's a terrible thing to think about. I mean, Timothy Morton, who I appreciate and read quite a bit, he says he can only think about it two or three minutes a day, and that's all he can handle. Timothy Morton, who I like to read, who writes about this topic, he always says he can only think about it two or three times because it's so tragic.

[47:21]

And he coined the term hyper-object. And the hyperobject, very simply, when you feel the rain yesterday or today on your head, that's the weather. But what you don't see, which is hidden because it's massively distributed, it's also global warming. So it's not obvious that the rain on your head means 17 feet of water in a century in New York City streets. So I tried to create a phrase like we're here joining in and establishing a contextuality

[48:29]

The word text means something in English, something woven. But practically it also means something you can read, a weaving you can read. How do you read the text of appearance? Well, I mean, since Buddhism is rooted in not a cognitive culture but an experiential culture, and an experiential culture,

[49:52]

is not rooted in a God space, an otherness space. It's rooted in experience. And we can experience many layers of relationality. Und wir können natürlich viele Schichten der Beziehungen beobachten oder erkunden. But in the end, why anything exists at all is not understandable. Aber warum irgendetwas überhaupt existiert, ist eigentlich nicht wirklich verständlich oder erfahrbar. And so fundamentally, it's rooted in a mystery, in what we can't understand.

[51:12]

Yeah. So... So one reason that Zen practice and Buddhism, the koans are kind of cases, is because when you're rooted in a culture which is experiential, you think in metaphors. Do people know there's toilets through that door? I told him to go up, I'm sorry. No, because right there. Okay. I guess we need an introduction to the room when we first start.

[52:26]

If you go through that door, you may end up in the heater because it's where the chips are for the heater. Your pellets, yeah. So, we have to stop in a minute. So thinking in metaphors, right? Because you can approach a mystery through metaphors, but not through ordinary cognitive thinking. You don't stop where cognition stops. You can feel into the mystery with metaphor. So, or images. So I suggested the image of contextuality.

[53:43]

Okay. So the image I'm suggesting for myself and maybe for us together. that we're in the midst of the last century of life as we know it. Now, whether that's exactly right or not, that's not my point. my point is we need some way, some image or metaphor for how we exist in this time when everything is heading for unpredictable cascades of environmental discomfort to the extreme for humans.

[54:55]

Oh my God. We need an image so that we can live and experience in this time, because this time Discomfort. And not predictable. So we've spent, in the West particularly at least, we've spent a couple thousand years separating the human from the non-human. But the non-human is also a livingness. And so we've thought that we were making use of so-called nature.

[56:07]

We thought it was a man over nature or a human over nature. Und wir dachten, es ist der Mensch über der Natur. Oder der Mensch steht über der Natur. And now the phenomenal object, non-human world is saying, okay, we're taking over now. Und jetzt ist es aber so, dass diese nicht-menschlichen Erscheinungen und so weiter sagen, okay, jetzt nehmen wir mal das Gute in die Hand. Anyway, they're taking over now and What does our practice mean in this context? Hans, we still have time for one more person. This is also something that I was very involved with recently.

[57:27]

And this would be my answer as a therapist and teacher, trainer for a therapist. And a medical doctor. And a medical doctor. We need very stable forms of cooperation. We need very strong connection to our inner dignity. Yeah, that's good. And we need to learn to live with differences that we don't like maybe. And we need to learn to live with differences that we don't like maybe. And we need to build up strength or protection towards psychopathic appearances.

[58:46]

So the last point I've never experienced here, I always thought we were very friendly and inclusive here. On a personal note, I would like to say that this search, I often felt like a truffle pig that's kind of very nervous and active, like searching for the truffles. I like truffles. I don't.

[59:46]

And during my first session, there was something I didn't like at all because it was too ritualized for my taste. I noticed that I had overlooked something or missed out on something, and that was friendliness and generosity. And I think that is something I have learned during my time here at Johanneshof, which was very rich. So in your first session you felt there wasn't much friendliness or generosity? No, I found it completely crazy.

[60:48]

I felt like in the Catholic Church. But when did it start feeling... I first had my meditation before was fact-based insight. I called it that way. It was really very strict. And they were all like, bing, and the incense... So when did you decide we're a little bit friendly? Right after Sishin. I felt a quality from the heart that I didn't know before.

[61:54]

If you do a Sashin again and I'm there, I'm going to offer incense to you. Right after Sishin. And someone said to me, in fact, Frau Director said to me, you're not so good at planning, but let's see if we can keep the meal schedule so we have seven minutes. Thank you very much. I see you later in the day.

[62:24]

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