Good morning. I want to talk a little bit about our procedures in the zendo. some points that will help us, actually, when we're doing things in the Zindo, especially at mealtimes and at service time. So one of the things I would like to point out is when we're carrying the tray, any tray, a Buddha tray or a food tray or tea tray, and we offer the tray to someone and then we bow.

[01:01]

So we're holding the tray and then we bow to the person. But we don't bow the tray. We simply bow ourself and hold the tray up. So the tray is somewhat independent. And so we're carrying the tray with great respect for the tray and what's on the tray. So we don't bow the tray. We bow and keep the tray there. And that's kind of a dignified way of acting. And it's really respectful to what you're carrying. So we should be respectful to whatever it is that we're conveying or carrying. So we keep the tray at that level and bow. So there are different kinds of bows. There's the deep bow, and then there's kind of deep bow, and then there's a kind of less deep bow, and then there's a kind of nod.

[02:14]

And each one has its place, and we should know when to do each one, because they convey various meanings, right? So if you do an ostentation, a deep bow, in a, you know, situation that just calls for a nod, then it feels ostentatious. And when you just give a nod, When you should feel something deeper, it feels like you're withholding. So it really comes from your feelings. How are you feeling? I can tell how people are feeling by the way they bow. Some people, oh, they never give any more than this. So something held back, some anger or resentment or something. Or, I don't want to give any more than that.

[03:19]

So, we should think about that. And so, when we serve somebody, when we serve people in Zen Do, we're holding the tray. It's a better tray. we hold the tray in a way that is convenient for the person. Sometimes the person will come up with a tray with something on it and the server is holding it up here. So what's the best way to serve this person? What is the most respectful way to serve this person so that it's convenient for them? And then you bow the head. keep it up, you bow the body a little bit, but basically you're bowing the head a little bit. Just enough, you know, the bow is actually when you stop. There's this and this, right?

[04:31]

This is not bowing. This is access. You're going toward the bow, and the bow is when you stop, and that's when you meet. You meet when you stop. If you just go like that, there's no meeting. Right? So sometimes we bow like this. There's no meeting. It's simply like one of those dumb oil wells that you see on the way to Santa Barbara. It doesn't mean anything. It's just going through the motions. So better not to bow at all than just go through the motions. There's a kind of, you know, the practice in the Zen Do is very meaningful because it makes us aware of our feelings and our intentions and how we do things. How we, our whole life is displayed right there.

[05:38]

And we can read each other very easily. We can read each other's dispositions and feelings and emotions and thoughts just in those, you know, in those acts. So I believe that we're all really very much, you know, we all love each other and we're all, you know, in this wonderful space which we share, and we're all trying our best, right? But even so, there is still conflict, and there's still holding back, and there's still ostentation, and there's not quite knowing what to do sometimes. And sometimes we don't know what our feelings are. unaware. Lack of awareness, I think, is a lot of it.

[06:42]

So I'm just trying to help us to be aware of how we move. And we can't order people to do things. We can only say, this is how we release ourselves, how we give ourselves away, so to speak. So there's that. When we walk in the zendo, we should be careful to walk on the front of our foot. Usual walking is on the heel. But in the zendo, it's like a drum. This floor is like a drum because there's this space below. And if you walk on your heels, it's boom, [...] you know, especially with the servers. So we want to walk, and not on the ball of your foot or your toes, but simply put your foot down. quietly, easily, so that you're not landing on your heels. And it's a way of walking that makes you aware of walking.

[07:44]

You can tell when someone is aware of their footsteps and when they're not. So awareness is what we're trying to bring forth. So although we are doing something, we're also concentrated on how we're doing something. So often in our life, we're so involved in what we're doing that we're not so aware of how we're doing it and how we're treating the tools that we work with, how we're treating or relating to our surroundings, and how what we do affects everyone. So this practice of the Zindo really brings out that awareness. And that's really a big part of what we're practicing with. So another point is that when we're serving, the service, you know, the,

[08:57]

cooks, cook the food, and put it out, and the servers take it in to the zendo, and then sometimes they mix water with it to make it more viscous or more, you know, whatever. And then the servers bring it to the people who eat it, right? So each dish, you know, has time to change while it's sitting. Some dishes thicken up while they're sitting. Some dishes, the heavy things go down to the bottom and the water's at the top. So you should know, what kind of dish is this that I'm serving? Is this a dish that's the same consistency all the way through? Or is this a dish that's where the heavy things are going to the bottom and the water's on the top? So you should know. Well, if I'm going to serve each one equally, I don't want to give some people all the things at the bottom and the people at the end the water.

[10:03]

So stir it up. That's the first thing you should think about when you're serving. Should I stir this up? And sometimes you have to continually do it because a lot of things are heavy and they fall down right away at the bottom. And then, should I give this person just what I see in front of me or should I help distribute some of these things equally to everyone? So, it only takes a second to discern that so that you're And especially something like a salad, many cooks will make a salad and they'll put a bunch of things on top. And so the first people get the things on top, which are like the delicacies, and then everybody else gets the rest. So how do you evenly distribute things so that you're serving people equally?

[11:08]

I think that's really important. and to keep things stirred up. And when we do bow to each other after serving and before serving, to just meet. It doesn't have to be long, but it should be just stopping. And then going on, not ostentatious, not oh, just meeting. How do we meet? That's the thing to think about. When I bow, when we bow to each other, how do we meet? And what are we saying when we meet? What's being expressed when we meet? Do you have any questions about that? Yeah. Sutra books, yeah.

[12:10]

This is a big problem, you know, an insoluble problem. The reason why we made the little cards for the meal cards, you know, they used to be big, and we reduced it to really small so that we could put them in those little pockets and pass them out, rather than keeping them under our zabaton. Because you don't want to sit on the You know, we want to pay respect to the Sutra card, so it's not respectful to keep it under the Zavatthan. But that's the way it's always been done, because there's no other way to do it easily. And I sometimes sit here and think about, should we put a little thing across the tan there, a little board, you know, so you could slip the Or maybe we should put it up there, you know. I think about this sometimes when I'm sitting here. But we don't want to do that, you know. Well, maybe under the ... no, that won't work. So we pass them out and pass them back.

[13:15]

That's why we pass them out and pass them back, because we want to treat them respectfully and we don't want to sit on them or put them under something that we're sitting on. Sometimes you have to put them on the floor. But it's better to put them on the zabaton rather than on the floor. Richard, do you have any more? Is that satisfying your question? Yeah. We're still trying to find the right way to do that. We're still trying to find the right way to do that. Yes. Tamar? Yeah, just some of the pots are heavy. The pots are heavy, yes. Yes. You don't have to carry it up like this. You should just carry it in a way that feels right. The main thing is you don't want to breathe into it. That's why people carry it up here, so you're not breathing into it. Hold your breath.

[14:18]

Carry it a little bit away from your body. You know, I think it's okay, you know. Your breath, I don't think it's going to hurt anything. I mean, it's a nice idea to not breathe into it, but sometimes when we're talking to each other, and sometimes I feel somebody's breath, I can, somebody's breath will come into my face, and I'm swallowing their breath through my nose, and I think, that's the easiest way to catch something that I can think of. But it can't be helped, you know? I mean, we try not to do that, but it can't always be helped. So carry it in a way that feels good to you. Not down here, but you know, comfortable. Be comfortable. That feels better because then when you're, that brings up another question. When you're approaching, it's good for the person who you're approaching to feel comfortable with you. So when you're carrying it in a comfortable way,

[15:28]

I feel comfortable. And so there's also the pace, you know, if you're going real slow, then it's very tedious. If you're going too fast, it's very upsetting. So find the pace that's not too, not slow and not fast, but just comfortable so that we don't get, it's not tedious and it's not upsetting. So, Junaid, I have a question about the way you're talking to us right now. I've heard you say these things before, but I don't mind hearing them again because I like the way you talk about these things. And it seems to me like in Zen centers in general, people are always correcting each other in different ways about form. And sometimes I feel really scolded when somebody corrects me. And other times I feel like the person is kind of preaching at me and has something that they want to show that they know something. So they want to teach me a lesson, you know, or teach me about the Dharma, you know, expound the Dharma to me, and I don't feel that from you.

[16:35]

So I wonder if you could talk about what's the difference, why is it that I don't mind getting corrected from you, and in fact I like it, I appreciate it. Yeah, because I like you. It's true. You know, I don't want to correct you. I want you to understand. I want this thing to come from you, not from me. So I'm just kind of reminding you of that. It's great when it comes from you, not me. Okay. didn't feel good about it. And now that this is brought up, it occurs to me, I could have just held it.

[17:41]

That would have been more respectful. And, you know, sometimes there's not room on the subcontinent to put it. And at one point, our practice was when we said, everyone should always hold the Superbook. And that way, new people don't feel and I don't know, maybe that's something to think about again. Well, that's what we have already said, but we don't do it. I think the people who don't like to do that, but holding the sutra books, it seems very formal when you do that, but that's the way we always did it at Sokoji. We always held the sutra card whether you knew the sutra or not, and it felt Like, you were not proclaiming that you had memorized it.

[18:44]

You were not bragging that you had memorized it because, you know, so you were not distinguishing yourself from those people who don't know it. And so I think that it's kind of nice for your ego to hold the sutra book so that you don't feel superior. So let's consider that. I don't want to make a judgment right now, but let's consider that. But Naomi had something. I think you should hold it level but over the pot. So that the server's not, you know, there's no gap between your bowl and the pot. Which brings up something else, but I don't think you should dip it, because then... Well, here's what, you know, at Zen Center what we do is the server takes the bowl.

[20:03]

in the soup with the second bowl, takes the bowl and then hands it back. So that's also possible. But when talking about soup, when you have a soup that has kind of, it's kind of half and half, half solid and half water, you serve some of the, and you go to the bottom and you take the solids a scoop of solid, then you should take a scoop of water from the top for the second one, so that you're using both the water and the solids equally. Not just go again down to the bottom, so you're serving the same person two of the same. I was going to say something else. Oh yeah, when you're serving something sticky and then you have a paddle to scoop it off with, you start in the middle for the second scoop rather than you pick up a scoop and the first one is full.

[21:21]

The second one is incremental. So you don't start at the top to scrape it off. You start in the middle or down below. And then the person has an opportunity to see how much they want. Sometimes the first scoop is full. The second scoop is not so full because it's, you know, anyway, so. Sometimes the second scoop is bigger than the first scoop, you know, which is backwards. These are subtleties, but they're important subtleties. So try to be aware of that. Jake? Back to the vows, sir. I know as a server, sometimes when I'm holding a pot and I'm just getting squared, the person's already bowing, and I feel like we can't meet. So I know that's a simultaneous bow, but... Well, the thing is, you meet the person. Whether they meet you or not, you meet them. But it's a little helpful to have the server almost hair-breadth started so that you're squared.

[22:29]

It's a sensitive issue. I think it's case by case. Two things, the first thing was about the sutra books, this image flashed into my head at AVG, at the service. You know, the elaborate way they passed out the sutra books, and nobody said, I'm sorry, I don't want it, it was all part of the thing. Yeah, it's all part of the thing. And it was beautiful, so, just a comment. Then the other thing, just remind me about the bowing, sometimes when I'm in a pair, that doesn't feel synchronized either. When the server appears, you know, I maybe put my hands in gassho and the other person's not in gassho yet, and then maybe right, you know, quickly before the server comes, and it happens, you know, not just one time, but many times. So should we be sort of synchronized? Yeah, wait for everybody to come together. You're not waiting a long time. You know, just wait there for everybody,

[23:33]

all three people to come together and then bow. Don't bow when somebody's not ready. Wait for everybody. Linda? About the bowing, at the beginning you were describing as, you know, being able to tell what's going on with somebody by the way they bow. actually called certain kinds of vows ostentatious and other kinds of vows withholding, I felt that some of that is also in the eye of the beholder. So we shouldn't maybe make people feel very self-conscious, oh my god, I really like vowing deeply, but now somebody said I'm ostentatious, I better stop. When I see somebody vowing deeply, more deeply than the median vow at Zen Center, I think, oh, that's a person who likes to bow deeply. And I don't usually feel bad about it.

[24:35]

I don't usually read it as ostentatious, but once in a while. Sometimes it's not. It doesn't mean that all deep bowing is ostentatious at all. Yeah, this is the other side. That's right. So we shouldn't make hasty judgments based on our perceptions. I agree. But that doesn't mean that you don't see things, right? Yeah. Well, that's the form here, but people don't do it. But what I mean is, like, say there's a seat or two or three that's empty, and a person comes down there, can we bow there? No. Okay, let me explain this. When someone bows to their cushion, the people on either side bow. When you turn around and bow out, the person across from you bows.

[25:39]

Not two or three seats down, just the people next to you. And so when I come in, like I'm not giving a talk, but I come in to sit down at the seat, I'll come in, I'll bow to my cushion and turn around, and if there's someone in front, they'll bow, but I don't expect the whole Zendo to bow to me. But you know, I can't say anything about that. But people, you know, it's not, but basically the people that are around you, right around you, bow when you bow. So when you come to your seat and you bow and people are sitting there, they bow too, to you. Yeah. Another question on vows, which I'm sometimes confused on.

[26:54]

So, after service, we get up and we put everything away, and we vow for a cushion, and we turn out, and we vow out. And then, sometimes the other person is still doing their... Which other person do you mean? The person in front of you? The person directly opposite you on the other tan. They get up and they bow. And then, because there's two other people opposite you, it can wind up being like one bow, two bows, three bows. You don't have to, no, you don't have to. Across the zendo is not necessary. But what about like right? This way, this is like a small distance. So you would bow each time? Well, bow to the person across from you. Do what feels comfortable. This is your koan. Figure it out. I want to talk about Mukugyo.

[28:01]

how we do certain chants with the Mikugyo and how we, basically, this is a fish, a hollow fish, believe it or not. And there's an optimum place where, because it's hollow, it has a hollow sound. So you try to find the hollow sound. Bop, bop, bop, bop. It should be. You're not hitting the mokugyo. You never hit anything. You don't hit the bells. You don't hit the mokugyo. You let the beater fall on the mokugyo. This is like the balance between the instrument that produces the sound and the bell that produces the sound. So we try to bring out the voice, the natural voice of the bells, and we try to bring out the natural voice of the mokugyo.

[29:08]

So you don't hit, otherwise it says, ouch. We want the bell to sing, and we want the mokugyo to sing, so you can't do it by forcing. You want it to be happy. happy song. So the makugyo has the beater can bounce and then when you hit it when you allow it to bounce in just the right place it's like a heartbeat that's it heartbeat and so you hold it very loosely so that it just falls and the weight of the beater falling is what produces the sound is what brings out So when you, and then there's the tempo. When we do like the Heart Sutra, it's not really a, it picks up a little in tempo.

[30:18]

Otherwise, the tempo falls down. So we start out, and that brings everybody together. And then, a little bit at a time, imperceptibly, you increase the tempo. Almost imperceptibly. Kanji, zai, brings everybody together. Kanji, zai, bo, satsu, yo, jin, han, ya, ra, mi, ta, ji, sho. You don't need to get any faster than that. I like a quick tempo, but it's not a frantic tempo. It's just, it carries you along, right? And as long as it's carrying you along, you don't have to pick it up. And when everybody's together, and everybody's agreeing, then you can do anything you want. But until they agree, until everybody agrees, whatever you do doesn't work.

[31:25]

So you have to find agreement. The person who's doing the Mikugyo has to find agreement with everybody that's chanting. So although you're leading, you're also following. You can't just lead, and you can't just follow. You have to lead and follow at the same time, which means you have to listen. So sometimes, what happens often is there'll be a slow, beat to begin with, and then suddenly, bah, [...] bah. And everybody's, where are we going? So, in other words, you're going from low gear to high gear without going through second. For those of us who have gear shifts, you understand what I mean.

[32:27]

So, It's got to be incremental. It can't be a sudden burst of tempo. And when we do the Enmei Junko Kanagyo, the way we used to do it, but we don't do it anymore, is because it's nine times, You know, we start out slow because each one is incrementally faster each time. But what happens is we start out real slow. How does it go? And then the second one is supposed to be picked up. So, okay, I'm waiting for the second one.

[33:29]

Well, at least maybe the third one. So, it's already dead, you know. It's not a dirge. So, I think, because it's too hard to do that for most people, I said, we start out at a medium tempo. And then the second one is quicker. And the third one is, by the time you get to the third one, you've found your tempo and you don't change it. It's too tricky. It's just too, you know, unless you have a really good But I don't expect everybody to be really good at this. But I think that's satisfying, to start out at a medium tempo, which is live. And then the next one is a little quicker. And the next one, by the time you get to the third one, you've reached the tempo, and you don't change it anymore.

[34:33]

Yeah? That's not the way we've been teaching it. I know. I know. How have you been teaching it? And accelerating, not changing gears between each one, but seeing if you can find a constant acceleration. And you don't get super fast, but you get risk. So towards the end, I would say by the 6th or 7th, you were up to speed, but asking people to pay attention to the acceleration. No, you teach it your way and I'll teach it my way. Basically it's the same thing. It's basically the same thing. Yes, some people can, but I want everybody to do it.

[35:56]

Anyway, I don't think it's different. It's just that I'm making it more precise. Let me say something about that. There's subtle control of your hand. It's not just loose. There's some subtle control, but it's very subtle. Here's one of the problems, is that increasing the tempo does not mean hitting harder. And sometimes we don't know the difference. And instead of increasing the tempo, we just hit it harder every each time.

[37:03]

So that's, we have to make some discernment about that. That's why to keep the same feeling as far as how the beater is falling is important. Not to hit it any harder, no matter how fast you're going. You're increasing the speed. It's a tricky thing. Well, you can talk about it, only to a certain extent. And then the rest is feeling. So, this is basically, you know, basically you allow that to happen, but of course it's you that's doing that. So, there's some control as well. Same with the bell. You let the beater fall very loosely, but there's still some control. You also say what you showed me last week, on your mantra now, that the structure is almost parallel.

[38:08]

Because when you do that, you're putting your whole body into the, without hitting, your whole body is going into the movement, but then you're letting go. Just boom. And then the weight of the beater is producing the sound. Just let the weight of the beater do the work. And the same thing with this. the weight of the beater do the work. It's more like, yeah, right, it's falling though, they're both falling. Yeah, and so then you get out of the way, you know, you just get out of the way and let the instruments meet each other and have a good time. I was going to say something else or two. and after it on other people.

[39:44]

Yeah, you're right. I think the continuity of sound is basic. To keep the continuity of sound is chanting, and then the syllables are, you know, they can be mumbled, you know, because it's the continuity of sound that creates So when the chanting is strong and powerful, it's because of the continuity of sound. If we all stopped at the same time to take a breath, you'd lose it. So we have to take breaths at different times and the continuity keeps going. Avalokiteshvara, Bodhisattva, when practicing deeply the Prajnaparamita, perceive that all da, [...] that's basically it. Da, da, [...] da

[40:48]

Not in the words. So, it's not the words. The words carry the chant, but it's the chant that's important. It's the way we chant that's important. But it's hard to, and as much as I work with Kokyos, I say, you know, you should carry over. You bridge the gap where everybody stopped and at the end, you know. So, everybody stops chanting and the voice, a strong voice keeps going. Sometimes Tsukogyo does that, but they come in too soon. So it's good to have a long, you know, song. And then go, and it gives us some dramatic feeling. And so, you hit it on the beat, but your impulse comes just this teeny little fraction of a second beforehand, so that instead of going on, zay, on, you know, this very flat way, it's got a little bounce to it.

[42:47]

At least that's what my impression is. Well, that's pretty subtle, I mean, for most of us. Yeah. Yeah, well I think Daini Shindirani has some really nice rhythmic things going on in it, and to accentuate those rhythmic things is nice, and you can do it when you're going quickly, not too quickly, but at a nice tempo. But as far as the memorial service goes, So, just keep that in mind.

[43:49]

It's tedious, you know. Slow tempos are really tedious, unless they're songs. A slow song is okay because it's got variety, variation. But, you know, a slow tempo with something that's a monotone is tedious. So, I don't like to do... Something like... That's good enough. That's slow enough. That's respectful. We don't want to die with the person. Although we have sympathy, you know, sympathetic joy. Okay. I have two questions. One, what's the story behind the... Oh, hitting the person. That's called the wake up. If you ask for it. Please wake me up.

[44:52]

Please help me to wake up. So, if I didn't ask you, would you hit me? No. No, I wouldn't. What's the second question? But still, you know, to me it wasn't only wake up. It was kind of Yeah, of course. We need those kinds of testimonials. What else? Bowing, yes. Do we have any mantra or anything to say? No. I do my Vrasamay. I know. See, the thing is, we're not bowing to God. Buddha is not God.

[45:52]

What we're doing is just bowing. Nothing. Just bowing. This is total openness. Total connection. Just letting go of everything and just merging with life. Just great respect for... I understand what you were saying about the continuity of sound in the chanting. No. Is it still continuity itself? Yes, continuity. Because, like, it's the Buddhist ancestors, right? You don't take a breath after Osho.

[47:01]

I was thinking more of something like all Buddhas or the Ahmajis. Oh, that's different. Because that is, all Buddhas is, has divisions. All Buddha's ten directions, three times, bong. Right, so that gives you the cue for taking a breath. Well, as I've taught the Kokyo, homage to the Dharmakaya, when the Kokyo does that, when they get to Buddha, So that instead of trying to catch the right time to do this, you know, it's like trying to catch a fly with chopsticks. So you get into the chant, into the rhythm of the chant, and then it's just natural.

[48:08]

Buddha, and you end with a clap. You end Buddha with a clap. You're not cutting off Buddha. You're simply Buddha. It's the period. Buddha, homage to the Dharmakaya Vajrayana Buddha. And then you're not taking an extra beat. So if you take an extra beat, homage to the Dharmakaya Vajrayana Buddha. Homage to the Dharmakaya Vajrayana Buddha. So you want the rhythm to continue without an extra beat of silence. So we don't maintain the sound? You maintain the sound, yeah. Well, you know, you take a breath. Homage to the Dharmakaya Vajrayana Buddha. Breath. Buddha. So that you're prepared for the next one.

[49:12]

You don't have to take a breath in between. You're prepared for the next one. So, all Buddhas, ten directions, three times, we don't keep the tone going there, we go three times, breath, because I've been maintaining the sound. Yeah, breath. I've heard you. And I thought, that's nice, but it's not right. What should you prefer more at the end of the pre-Buddhist chant? Well, you know, the way it's done, the Japanese do it, they don't say ma-ka-ha-nya, they say ma-ka.

[50:39]

Ma-ka. Actually, the emphasis is on ka. Actually, it's ma-ha-pra-nya. Well, it's the same thing. Ma-ka-ha-nya. Well, that's the Japanese. I was trying to say at the end of the Three Buddha Chants, the ma-ha-pra-nya. Oh, I see. You pronounce Paramita as a single word. Maha Pranaya Paramita. Paramita. Maha Pranaya Paramita. Thank you. It's just one word. It's not Paramita. I mean, it might be, but... Six months or a year. What? We've been doing the Maha Pranaya Paramita. Well, people stretch it out, you know, and I find myself, I'm saying, Maha Prajnaparamita, and everybody's going, it's still going. And I'm trying to, can't you hear what I'm saying? Get it back. Because we tend to, as time goes on, we tend to stretch it out and stretch it out and stretch it out.

[51:45]

So there are two schools, you know, one is keep it in balance and the other is stretch it out. And people say, well, when we stretch it out, it feels more holy, you know, or something. But I don't know. I like it better when it's not stretched out too much. It's got a lot of holes in it when it's stretched out. Gets what? It's got a lot of holes in it. Yeah, it gets thin. Like cheese. Attitude is that usually we chant after Zazen. And so when you're sitting in Zazen, there's always strength in your Zahara. Zazen is strength in your Zahara. When you're sitting up straight and your breath is down here and it creates strength in your Zahara.

[52:49]

So when you start chanting, when you chant after Zazen, That's where the chanting comes from, is the strength of your hara. That's why it's done in a kind of monotone, so that it has some power. That's the way it is. And so you keep that power going and the words are, it's like blips on the, string. It's like a ray. When you play a wind instrument, you take a breath and you play, and then the tongue breaks up the wind. The tongue breaks little blips to articulate. But for the most part, the breath is constant.

[53:56]

And there are little articulations with the tongue. Da da [...] da, like that. So, kanji, zaibou, sato, gyōji, na, na, na, kanji, zaibou. That's exaggeration, you know. But you're not taking a lot of breaths. You're taking as much breath as you can. to hold out your tone as long as you can, and then the tongue is making little articulations to break that up. But it doesn't stop when you articulate. You're only interrupting the sound. You're not stopping it. So that gives it power. This is where the power comes from, and from your breath. So you have to maintain a strong, powerful breath from here. I wasn't here yesterday, and coming back to Sushumna's words, I was struck with how incredibly beautiful and harmonious the chanting was, and how much more so it was than the usual morning.

[55:08]

It was palpable, and it reminded me of the power of Sushumna, and how We, I think we, I think anyway, let's ascribe right and wrong to the conversation we're having. Doing it right versus doing it wrong as opposed to doing it harmoniously and with one another. It becomes obvious. It was very, I have other people who speak to it who are here, but watching the service And I can have that same kind of palpable power. And at Rinzow Inn, Richard videotaped Hoitsu's teaching us how to chant the Sangha Prajna, which I will, I've only been to watch the video like a thousand times a day, but it's got a rhythm to it that we heard at Eheji, which was stunning.

[56:18]

Incredibly powerful, and I would love for us to learn how to do that. Well, we used to do that. We used to chant the Sando Kai in Japanese, you know. And when Tatsugami was teaching us, he had the clappers, and he'd go, like that, you know, beating out the rhythm. And we used to teach people the syllables, you know, the consonants and how to double consonants and all that. I used to do that all the time. But then we stopped chanting in Japanese. I don't know, but I was very impressed with how he could correct, oh, I can tell what Ellen was saying, how he could tell us something and then there was no energy around him right along.

[57:27]

I mean, then that was, I mean, it was, it was, it was, it felt like total love. Total love. He spent three hours with us, two different days, just completely loving us. Jesus, me too. I would chant. Yeah, he's very good at that. I like to do it with humor. I hated it. It was like this, we'd be sitting in Zazen, the last period, and everybody's, ah, ah, yee, ah, and it would go so slow that at some point, where am I?

[58:41]

So much space in between the syllables. I don't think we've done that here. Yeah, we've done that here. We used to do that. New Year's. That's right, New Year's. Yeah. We do it on New Year's. We'll do it on New Year's. But not that slow. It was amazing. My legs are killing me. The last period. It was good for us though. Good medicine. There are other things that probably would be good to talk about, but I think that's pretty good. I didn't even have to look at the book or anything.

[59:46]

Is there anything else? Yeah, we could hand the bowl to the server if you want them to do it. You can do that. The server would ask for it by putting out their hand. Just put it out, yeah. Put it out. And that way, you know, the server basically can do whatever way they want. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I want to say one more thing about the mokugyo, not the beater. You know, if you... I remember being in China watching them in the temple, the monastery, and they were doing a very quick chant, you know, really fast, and they'd hold the beater just, and just let it fall like that. And there was no strain, you know, it's just like very smooth and, you know, but it's just, and if you do this, there's a lot of wasted motion.

[60:57]

It's like a train. I like to think of this actually as a train. The train is pulling out of the station. It's going, choo, [...] choo. So in a way, but to do this is a lot of wasted motion. It's OK to do it this way, but it's not necessary. You just do it like this, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta. Okay, this is the last one. I want to echo what Alan said. I'm so impressed the way, in this many days, with your good energy, you have the same energy that I saw you the first day, and you're happy, joyful, and so humble. Because I've been in other sessions, in Passaha, in Zanzibar, Gringotts, So everybody does buddhism like you are doing, but the way you present, I want to see what's the essence behind that, besides being buddhism, to be so joyful, so humble, so doing it, being, you know, practicing.

[62:18]

It's a practice time. I just enjoy it. I enjoy practice. This is the way I like to work in the kitchen as well. It's so much fun. I just like to have fun when I'm practicing. Yeah, the three of us were having a great time just not doing anything special.

[63:25]

Yeah. Okay.

[63:31]

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