And I said to this person, don't you have a favorite shirt? That you like to wear? This is my favorite shirt. And I'm supposed to wear it anyway when I'm teaching or something, sitting, practicing. Mm-hmm. Do I wear a bit of his clothing? Or I feel like that. And I sit in the posture he sat in. Which I'm sure he would say from which the teaching arose. And from which enlightenment arose. The experience of enlightenment belongs to human beings.

[01:04]

But the transformation of an enlightenment experience into wisdom belongs to a particular tradition. transformation to what Buddhism means by wisdom. And that transformation is a path. And that path has a craft. Yes. Oh, by the way, we'll have some time for a discussion. And I'm happy also if at some point you want to bring up something. What the heck are you talking about? So if we want to... understand this phrase, realize this phrase, all dharmas are empty, all dharmas are without self.

[02:31]

I'm going to have to have some kind of pace Like the pace of the eating, cleaning the bowls, etc. Yeah, it's also said that the Buddha or whoever is the exemplar of a teaching. The exemplar of a teaching is described as foremost among the dwellers in the forest. Der wird beschrieben als der erste unter denen, die im Wald verweilen.

[03:44]

In the early days it was usually the phrase, the so-called formula, was foremost among the forest dwellers. Es war eben dieser Ausdruck, der erste unter denen, die im Wald verweilen. Later they would say, for most among those who dwell in calmness, and dwell in kindness. Now there's a lifetime work, dwelling in calmness, and dwelling in kindness. It's pretty hard to do, actually. Really, it's hard to do. It's hard to even know it as a possibility. As I said, this space that Rilke is talking about, and the space that Sukhiroshi is talking about, is it first of all a space that arises from

[05:08]

through and through feeling at ease. We're in a busy activity. How do you know you're not at ease? Sometimes we feel pretty good. Sometimes we're exhausted and we sleep pretty well. Yeah, but whether exhausted or busy, do we really feel at ease? Or do you clearly feel the way in which you're to some extent not at ease? And you can take This feeling of not being at ease. And surround it with a liquid of ease.

[06:27]

Almost like if you had a... I have some kind of bowl and the water is quite jiggly and I'm... If I pour in more water, it makes it calm. Even if we're not quite at ease, we can pour in more water, kind of liquid feeling ease. To come into this space, this dwelling in calmness, and dwelling in kindness. And that itself is an exploration. Yeah, and maybe I should talk about the paramitas.

[07:44]

Yeah. Feeling in each encounter you have a mental posture. A kind of yoga. Of generosity or... No subterfuge. Subterfuge? No... No... No hiding. Yeah, just an open, generous feeling. Yeah. This place is called here. And that's the first of the parameters. And the second is so-called discipline or the precepts. But in practice this means to be able to receive.

[08:51]

Like you need discipline to learn something. So discipline is a form of receiving. And then the third is patience. To just be there patiently. With a generous feeling and being willing to receive. That would be the first three of the six parameters. As a practice you can find yourself there. And the fourth is energy. To be there with a readiness. So the bodhisattva practice is in each encounter with the forest or with another person.

[09:52]

To have a generous feeling. Maybe you could turn that to the other page, would you? To stand still. The trees in front of you. And the bushes beside you are not lost. It's like the parameters. This place is called here. One of the wisdom views you bring into your practice that you should learn to live with if you want to do this practice, is the feeling that everything you need is here.

[11:15]

There's no other place where something is. And that's expressed in, we have a bowing cloth, if you wear robes. Maybe it looks something like this red pattern on the... And it's called the Bodhi Mandala. The enlightenment space. But it's wherever you put the cloth down. There's no special place. And if there's a bad place, you put your cloth down there. Now this is a somewhat different view than our usual way of looking at the world as real.

[12:19]

This is looking at the world as a construct. This forest is a construct. And Giorgio and Christiana's job is to protect it. If it's cut down, it's a different place. So if you really profoundly, habitually feel everything as a construct, then you feel your own participation with it as a construction. And that participation becomes something real. More real than the given space, place.

[13:24]

So foremost among the forest dwellers. You know, if I told everyone last night, I have a new baby. And every half hour I have to talk about her. For your sake, I might stretch it to 45 minutes. So anyway, she's really nice. I like her a lot. But if I change her, I have to do it in a certain pace. Now, if we write a sutra now, says the Buddha comes back from begging, has his lunch, cleans his bowls, changes his baby, washes her bottom,

[14:29]

Then he washes his own feet. And if you do change the baby, You have to do it in a certain kind of pace. We have the practice of telling the baby what we're going to do. To create transitions for the baby. She doesn't exactly know what we're talking about. We're talking to her in two languages. But she's pretty much got the picture. So we say, we're going to pick you up now. We don't just pick her up. We say, we're going to pick you up now. How's that? Now we're going to change your diaper. Okay. She even lifts her legs up, you know.

[15:50]

Okay, go ahead. She's almost three months old now. But we have to be, I find, we have to be in the pace of the baby and in a pace where each thing is particular. No, you've camped out probably in the forest. For a few days. I haven't done it for quite a while, but I used to do it. Now and then. You pitch a tent. Pitch means to set up a tent. Or maybe you just put a sleeping bag down or a pad. And you spend three or four days in the forest. And forests make a very nice floor for you often, particularly pine forests. And I find that pretty soon the forest is all around you.

[17:04]

The next stanza is something like, listen. The forest breathes. This place is called here. You may leave it. And if you return, you can return calling it here. No two branches are the same to raven. No two branches are the same to when. Mm-hmm.

[18:04]

So if you spend some, as I said, camping out, living in the forest for some days, it's almost like being here. The birds, the insects, the way the breezes are, the smells, begin to be inseparable from you, at least for me. So you can see what just this simple phrase, foremost among forest dwellers, means. It's the kind of mind, like you can come to in zazen, Or you can come to in the forest. Inseparable from your situation, where you are.

[19:24]

The trees and bushes are not lost. You must treat them as a powerful stranger. Yeah, you must ask permission to know it and be known. So it's assumed that this kind of each thing in its own ripening time And here we have a feeling that there's no general time. Yeah, we have clocks. But that's not real time. That's some kind of average. And none of you are average. You can average yourself for the sake of a meeting.

[20:37]

You can put on a one consciousness fits all. Yeah, in order to go about your life. But practice is to take off this one-size-fits-all consciousness. Now, Castaneda speaks about culture has made... foreign installations in us. Like army bases or something. Like the American army has bases in Germany. But you don't like too much. Or in Austria. Do you still have them in Austria?

[21:38]

No. All gone. In Germany they're still in Germany. But you don't like them too much. But our culture, whatever it is, has bases in us. So we have these foreign installations in us. And we have a sort of one size fits all consciousness. And somehow the forced dweller is more free of that. The one who dwells in calmness and kindness is more free of that.

[22:42]

So it's assumed that this kind of freedom from foreign installations And freedom from a one-size-fits-all consciousness opens us to win a poem as a tree. It opens us to knowing how the space outside of ourselves violates things. So if we take away averaged time, each tree there is ripening at a different time. Some are old, some are young. Some are crowded with other trees. And each of you is ripening in a different way.

[23:47]

So no two branches are the same to win. To when means a time, the time when. No two branches are the same. To when this happens, when this happens. So the sense of time in practice... is to step outside of averaged time and to feel the particular ripening time of each situation and each person. Dogen says, when all things are the Buddha Dharma, He means all things of the Buddha Dharma when you're not in averaged time.

[25:05]

So a little statement like this, dharmas are free of self, all dharmas are free of self, assumes quite a number of things. assumes you have the mind of a forest dweller. That you dwell in calmness and kindness. That you know each thing in its own ripening time. And I don't speak to Paul now. I speak to Paul's ripening time. And it's different all the time.

[26:08]

And not only does each of you have your own ripening time, this situation has its own ripening time. Everything is really specific and quite independent. When all things are the Buddha Dharma. Yeah, I like that. Once when I started studying with Charlotte Selber, that was when I first started practicing, same time as Sukhirishi. She said, please just sit there calmly and relaxed. Sie sagte einfach, sitzt einfach da, ruhig und entspannt.

[27:18]

And she had us more or less close her eyes. Und mehr oder weniger sagte sie, schließt eure Augen. And she said, she said blue. Und sie sagte blau. No, she didn't. She said blue. Well, she, no, kidding. She is German, so she could have said blau. So she said blue. Blue, but she meant blue. And it came across the room like a physical object and hit me and spread through my body. And it took several things for that to happen. It was one of the first times I experienced a moment's unison of body and mind. A moment's unison coming together of body and mind.

[28:21]

But it took silence took a pause, and it took no expectations. So I find if I can dwell in silence, with a sense of pause for each thing, without the structures of consciousness shaping all my awareness, then each thing has this power, sweeps across you. You feel the word as your own experience. In this sense, I want to bring you into the words of the teachings. Thank you very much so far.

[29:43]

Thank you for translating. And maybe, let's see what time it is here. It would be a good time to take a break. Eleven o'clock. My goodness, I'm right on time. Okay, let's have a half hour break. Okay. It's really nice to be here with you. I thought you might like the whole of the poem up, or this teaching up.

[30:49]

Also on this piece of paper, which I'll entrust to Michael. So the operative word in this statement, the operative technical word, in this statement, all dharmas are without self, How can we be in the midst of the experience of that statement? How is such a statement our actual experience? Well, I think before we enter it, we have to have an understanding of the word Dharma.

[31:57]

So that's what I should speak about when I speak about something. But right now I'd like to see if you have anything you'd like to bring up, any And I hope you do. If you have nothing to bring up, I think I failed this morning because I know I'm not able to be so clear that there's no questions at all. Actually, it's a question that I have brought from last year. Yeah.

[33:06]

How many of you are going to save your questions until next year? All right. Last year you mentioned that how to tell the difference, if you see Buddha statue, to tell the difference between compassionate practices, like this, or yogic practice. And so, I mean, the question is how to work with this. Do you have to find a balance between the yogic practice and the compassionate practice, or explore the field of all that, or is it two ways, two different ways to go? Well, one, the statues, the two statues are not about practice.

[34:10]

Also bei den beiden Statuen geht es nicht um die Praxis. One statue is a statue to make people feel a big presence. In der einen Statue geht es darum, dass die Leute eine große Präsenz fühlen können. Yeah, and so Amida Buddhas... Deutsch. Sorry. You should say the question in German. Yeah, you should say the question in German. Yeah. Yes, I like to do that, but since Roshi speaks English, I also find it good to practice speaking English. So whoever can do that and who also wants to speak with Roshi directly, I think it is also good for them if he presents his questions in English and then translates them himself. But everyone can decide for themselves. We're talking about asking questions, and she wants to ask a question in German.

[35:15]

I said I'm willing to do that anytime, but I also want to suggest that people ask the question in English, because you are... I prefer people to ask their questions in German. Yeah, really? Yes. You're welcome. Because then you can whisper in my ear, sweet nothings. Okay. Anyway, it's really an iconographical difference, not a practice difference. Yeah, you don't think so. No, I have the experience that some people practicing tend to either this or that side. Some very straight up and very energetic and others emphasize more the compassionate side in the beginning of the practice.

[36:18]

Yeah, George, bitte. The question was that you mentioned last year that there is a difference between yogic attitude, when the back is very straight, and compassion attitude, that is, when the back is a bit wounded to the back. And my question was whether you can apply this to practice, whether you can find a balance between these two or whether you can practice both or whether these are two different ways that you can pursue. And he then meant that it has a more iconographic meaning, that these Buddha figures then No, he's just telling everything.

[37:20]

You're much more compassionate than me. If somebody's sitting like this, I say, come on, show them. There's two or three people at Johanneshof. Young people who sit with their head forward and they can't seem to get their head back. But there's no... People sit different ways, of course. But as practice, there's no excuse for sitting that way. He's from my point of view. Until you're as old as I am, then you can kind of sit. Okay, yes. Yes. If I accept something from somebody else, how do I know that I can accept or should accept it?

[39:13]

You try it out. You're accepting all kinds of things from other people. You're dressed in clothes. You've accepted that as a convention from other people. But you find some way to make it your own. So, yeah. That would be a variety of ways which I could establish. That there would be a choice of life I could choose. How do I know that it's exactly this one?

[40:45]

Well, I think our life is made up of a variety of lives we have accepted from our parents and so forth. And so many teenagers now are their lives are shaped by celebrities it seems nuts to me but I mean yeah so you could say that the question I'm this statement I'm bringing forth today. All dharmas are free of self. It is about accepting a life free of self. And that's different from accepting a variety of different selves. So Buddhism is a teaching.

[42:06]

It says, oh yes, there's a variety of selves we can choose. From our parents, from our culture. Yeah, and from our deeper wishes. When I was young, I loved the poet Ezra Pound. And he's always cut his sideburns right here at the ear. So I did too. I don't know if anybody noticed that that was copied from Ezra Pound. But... Since then I've decided to have a no-hair-do style. So the Buddha shaved even higher, so I went with that.

[43:14]

Of course, I don't know if we know whether the Buddha shaved his head or not. Anyway, the practice of Buddhism is to choose a potential of life free of the usual sense of self. And so I'm trying to discuss what that would mean. And in what way that's not just an idea, but a craft. Like there's a craft of putting on your clothes. And it's a craft of how you discover that all dharmas are free of self. So you choose from some varieties.

[44:27]

Yeah. Yes. You have to make... Oh, you said so. You remember, Deutsch. Yes. Yeah, you choose. In different stages we meet different things which we like and which we follow or imitate. And then the moment comes where something arises or comes toward us which hits us in a way that we can experience our space.

[45:29]

Also my feeling of what I need comes up somehow. Of course. Yes? Hi. Everything which we need, which we accept, it's like a play or like a game. If I look at everything as free from self, then it's allowed that everything happens. And then there is also the freedom and an exchange. Okay, that sounds good to me. and also this change which makes us arrive at our Self.

[47:06]

And at some point you notice it doesn't matter, you don't need it. Sounds good. Okay, something else? Yes. My feeling is when I'm here, when I come here, that's a space where I can get a good feeling about what you're talking about. But when I'm back home, After some days it just flows away and it's difficult for me to build it up within me again.

[48:10]

There are some moments where I really can enter this Now I look for possibilities how I can in my everyday life make this into some kind of force. Yeah, yeah, I understand. Do you have a guest room where I can come stay? You find me hanging out in the kitchen and you're... Yeah, but I have the same problem. You do. That's why I live with Gerald and Paul. And I'm not here just to bring you practice.

[49:10]

I'm here to strengthen my own practice. Because doing this helps my practice. So we do have to find some, you know, craft, you know, bringing practice into your life. And there's a, you know, Clear teaching about that. And yeah, so... Okay, I'll see if I can be useful today and tomorrow. Yes. I want to ask a provoking question. Your basic attitude of awareness, which is strengthened at the weekend, I want to take it with me into my daily life.

[50:26]

And dealing with the teachings, sometimes it's like dealing with the teachings, it interrupts this and maybe it would be more important to just going to that being aware in every moment and something like that. Yeah, so that dealing with the teaching seems to be sometimes counterproductive to the support for daily life. Can you give me an example of a teaching that's counterproductive or interferes with practice? It's not a specific teaching or a, yeah. But dealing with the teaching, which takes some time, study of literature. Also because life is filled with things we have to do which leads us away from mindfulness and awareness.

[51:53]

My feeling is it would be more important to just practice this basic attitude of mindfulness and less going into the wisdom teachings of all the traditions. For example, the teaching of mindfulness, the four foundations of mindfulness, the classic teaching of mindfulness,

[53:19]

is a path. And it's much more powerful when it's done as a path. And not just being randomly mindful. Of course, being mindful, generally mindful, is wonderful. And I think that any teaching you bring into your life should enhance your practice of mindfulness. If it interferes something, it's a little funny, I think. Although you can set aside a certain amount of time for study. But there's a difference between the study of a practitioner and the study of a scholar.

[54:37]

The practitioner is not trying to learn anything. And trying to learn something is often interfering. You're usually learning in borrowed consciousness or culturally derived consciousness. A consciousness you borrowed from your culture. Ein Praktizierender studiert no faster than he can actually put into practice each line.

[55:44]

So if you read a commentary or a sutra, you read it at the rate of a line or so a day. and you don't go ahead of your ability to practice it. Or if you can't practice it, you put it aside and go ahead and come back to it. This is almost the only serious study for a practitioner. All other study pretty much interferes. It only lets you sound knowledgeable. But understanding that, you can bring teaching into your practice.

[57:13]

And it makes a big difference if you do. But it's about how you bring it into your practice. This morning I had the feeling that a really strong Buddha field was being built, erected. And if I feel that, then I start crying. Is that emotion? Because we are supposed to quiet emotion to become still internally. Actually in the Diamond Sutra Subhuti in the middle bursts into tears

[58:14]

And tears were understood as an expression of understanding. If you didn't burst into tears, you didn't understand. So then you got knowledgeable scholars bursting into tears all the time. To try to show they understood. No, but it is. It exactly is that. And the Diamond Sutra turns at that point and they go through it again at a deeper level. Something else. Yes. Oh, did you say it in Deutsch as well?

[59:40]

He spoke in German. He did? Oh, I forgot what you said. Okay. She wants to also... I may begin. My feeling is that we have to go back, we have to get back the attention and innocence of the child. My feeling is also that theory sometimes can be quite grey. It's not good just to put it over you. What I don't understand at the moment, what I don't get at the moment, I just have to put aside. Yes, that's true. And that's good. You listen, you accept, and then you, okay, put it aside.

[60:45]

I'll come back to it later. But we have to be careful about the innocence and openness of a child. A child is not a Buddha. And that's a really an important distinction, I think. And I have some quarrel with the pejorative of an oceanic consciousness or oceanic feeling. Yeah, because often, and it used to be the case, and you haven't read too much recently, in psychology, there was a kind of put-down as religious experience, spiritual experience, this oceanic consciousness.

[62:02]

It's samadhi, it's oceanic consciousness. And is it eight, eight? return to an infantile, undifferentiated consciousness. And that's not what spiritual experience is. And a baby does have undifferentiated consciousness in the beginning. And that can transform an adult's consciousness. It can transform an adult's consciousness. and can put me in an undifferentiated consciousness. But it's not the same as hers. I'm taking away differentiation. She's struggling to create differentiation. So just the direction difference makes a difference.

[63:21]

Maybe we could say a baby, ideally, has something like undifferentiated awareness. But a Buddha has differentiated awareness. There's a difference once you've established yourself in consciousness. Which is necessary to do. You couldn't function otherwise. And then to free yourself from that differentiated consciousness is not the same as just as having some kind of undifferentiated awareness.

[64:24]

Does that make sense? Yeah. This is the teaching that form is emptiness. And emptiness is form. There's no such thing as emptiness over there independent of form. Emptiness is a function of form. Form is a condition or function of emptiness. So the more The more evolved form is, the more powerful emptiness is. I know this may sound a little funny, but there's no entities in the world. In Buddhism there's no entities.

[65:38]

There's only relationships. Form and emptiness are a relationship. So the child doesn't have those relationships developed. The infant doesn't. So a Buddha's awareness may have some qualities of freshness like the babies. But it's a highly evolved, matured consciousness and awareness, not the undeveloped awareness of the baby. Unless you have a different baby than I have. There is an American author, his name is Almas, a Sufi, maybe. And he advises following to reach a non-dual consciousness

[66:40]

Go back to the consciousness of the child, because there you experienced it and you can remember it. Yeah, okay. I wouldn't quite agree, but it's okay. I think that we need to practice something, we need a taste. So I'm again, I'm always trying to, as I'm speaking, seek out the flavors. Yeah, the flavors I feel in Krista. Or Peter or Paul or Mary. Is there a Mary here?

[68:08]

Because if you don't have a taste, there's no access to practice. And yes, I think you can have a taste of a non-dual state as a child. And if we really notice that state as a juncture, A juncture. A juncture is like you wake up in the night. You wake up in the night and there's a big storm. And you really feel the black rain on the roof. And then you go back to sleep. And the next morning you say to someone, Am nächsten Morgen sagst du zu jemandem, Hast du heute Nacht diesen Sturm bemerkt?

[69:28]

Nein, ich habe wie ein Baby geschlafen. Sie hatten nicht dieses Zusammentreffen mit dem Sturm. And there's a juncture we have with another person. You feel some twinkle in their eye. There's no dimension to it. There's recognition with another person. I call that a juncture. Because I'm speaking about this because these junctures are sort of dharmas. So now I'm trying to approach the definition of a dharma. A dimensionless juncture. But there's junctures that happened to us when we were a child. When we first crossed the street by ourselves, or when we first actually heard the birds in the morning, but that kind of juncture

[70:42]

we can go back to it in our feeling. But if it's actually been a juncture that we experienced, I think it's secretly developed in our life. And it's probably what brought us to the Sufi teacher. or brought us here. So it's not really back in the past. It's been maturing all along and surfaces in us. It's like seeing an old friend. If they're really an old friend and you haven't seen them in ten years they look the same But you're not surprised they've aged. Somebody you haven't kept an inner connection with, and you see them 20 years later, 10 years later, and you think, well, what happened to you?

[72:07]

And you see them 20 years later, and you think, well, what happened to you? But someone who you've kept a feeling for, you're aware they're going to be different when you see them. So it's something like that. And of course just sunbathing can give you a taste of a non-dual experience. So I agree, but I... You know, I agree the way I just agreed, yes. Yes. A poem and a juncture. Not much. I think a person who writes poems feels a juncture. And words appear in that juncture.

[73:20]

I think you have to be careful about that, though. The poet's tendency is to close the juncture. The practitioner's tendency is to keep the juncture open and not close it with a poem. How many of us, we have a juncture, so a line appears And then we try to think the next four lines. And the next four lines are kind of dead.

[74:24]

A real poet keeps the juncture open and you don't know where the next line is coming from. Ein wirklicher Poet, der versucht, dieses Zusammentreffen offen zu halten, und er weiß nicht, wo die nächsten Sätze herkommen werden. But I think that's important to notice. Aber ich glaube, das ist wichtig, das zu bemerken. It's a little bit like you see something beautiful, and your immediate instinct is to take a picture of it. And the juncture closes. I don't mean sometimes we don't take pictures. I don't mean that we shouldn't sometimes take pictures. I've taken a few of Sophia. But in general it's better not to close the juncture. That's my feeling.

[75:31]

And then if a poem is forced on you, you do it. If a poem is forced on you, you write it down. But it's good to avoid it if possible. And keep life as a A series of junctures. And there's a tradition in Buddhism, as a Buddhist practitioner, is in the first year or two of practice you don't write any poems or paint any pictures. until you can keep those junctures open without trying to close them. And then when you get used to keeping the junctures open and having no instinct to close it or turn it into something else, And then with a new sense, perhaps you can begin writing again or painting again.

[76:46]

Yes, somebody started this. The method Giorgio described is Sufi's use. For me there is a difference whether I attribute the consciousness to a child, which is non-dual, or I as a grown-up person, When I as a grown up building constructs, I remember how it was as a child.

[77:47]

Because remembering takes place in this construct building. I don't experience it like it was when I was a child. I wouldn't say, just to be precise with language in my own experience, I wouldn't say a child has a non-dual awareness or consciousness. I'd say they have a less dual consciousness. Yeah, because a non-dual consciousness is a pretty sophisticated thing. It means you can establish an experience of a non-dual consciousness, not just have the experience sometimes. you can establish it and separate it from other consciousnesses and it has an inner coherence and an ability to sustain itself a child simply cannot do that

[79:12]

That's a yogic skill, a yogic practice. A child may be in some sort of less dual state. If it gets hungry, it's gone. Or if a little brother or sister does something, it's gone. Yeah. Or there's a loud noise, it's gone. That's not the same as yogic samadhi. Okay. Now, what time are we supposed to gather food into ourselves? At 1. 1 p.m. Okay. Okay. Okay. Anything else? Yeah. And my theory is often, I mean, it's interesting because the correct distinction between a poem and a tree is that there would be a difference between a poem and a paper stick.

[80:51]

You can see a tree and you can see what the tree doesn't mean, so you can watch very carefully and you can see the tree's differentiation. And then you can have the experience of a tree as a poem, which is much more overwhelming and much more emotional side. But most of the time, you don't even see that there is a tree. So you don't go into any specific differentiation of what life experience it is. So I think the main point is first get to Why don't you give it to us? That's good.

[82:07]

Okay. I like it. All that was in English. I'm sorry. In my experience it is often the case that There is a difference between a tree and a tree-man. A tree-man is a tree-man and it is only a different perception. For example, if you can see a tree, you can see it and you can let it go. A tree has leaves and roots and it has a skin and it is so dark and it has only the color and you can let it go. And then you can come into the tree and there is something that you don't realize.

[83:17]

And then there is a whole variety that is more emotional and emotional. And most of the time, according to my personal experience, I don't realize that there is a tree at all. So that I think that there should be a third line where I say Let me say first, I think it's a better rhythm if we all speak initially in German. And then she tells me, or you speak in English afterwards. Unless you're just overcome by an English spasm. Or you're just overcome by the sheer beauty of English.

[84:32]

Yeah, which would be unlikely. Yeah, Kiesler? I just felt very strongly when you said, if the sound is too loud for the child, then is this knocking from inside, this goes away. If it's too loud for the grown-up person, it also goes away. And we go back to practicing to pull it back. Yesterday evening I felt this knocking from inside. It was totally there when I was a child, but then I lost it. Then I did psychoanalysis, and then it was back again, and I thought it was always there, and now I get it back.

[85:36]

When the analysis was finished and it slowly disappeared again. Now I arrived here and I arrived in Zen. And it goes away, I get it back as fast as I can. Don't be too attached. It's good to accept it going away, too. Acceptance is a deeper state of mind. That's right. But it has to be there for my work because I paint. Okay. If it goes away, my work goes away. Then it's good to get it. For the craft, it's good to get it back. And for your photo... It requires the silent.

[86:40]

It goes away. Yeah, I understand. I understand. And it's good for your photographs, too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She looks like the baby Buddha. The baby Buddha is always shown in this posture. Zum Beispiel in meiner Arbeit und in sozialen Situationen erfahre ich Erwartungen und erfahre mich selber, dass ich mich nach diesen Erwartungen richte, so wie man zu funktionieren hat. gleichzeitig in der Praxis gibt es dieses hineingehen in den Moment, in die Oberflächen von allem, was da ist.

[87:47]

And the difficulty is then in this space of social expectations, where you are simply in a profession and play a certain role, not to lose this access to the area where the surface opens, not to lose access to this other kind of time and the access to the I thought you were just translating what I was thinking. One of the problems in my practice and especially dealing with this gap between practice and everyday life is that when I have to do something in my work or I occupy some role or so, I just feel all these expectations which are coming up to me.

[89:06]

And at this point it's easy to lose the entrance to the moment, to this other form of time, to just the point where the surface is open. At this point when I feel these expectations coming to me and I enter the roles, it's easy that I lose the touch and I just forget about all the... The point where the surface is open and I can see how the specificity of the moment is, this quality of the moment. You seem to me to understand the problem very well. That's a big part of it. Yeah, so I think we could, several ways I could say in relationship to that.

[90:20]

One is through the evolved practice of mindfulness. You change your point of attachment to the world. And you can be in these situations and you can sort of like reestablish the point of attachment that you want. And also we can establish pretty close to an imperturbable mind that we don't lose. But that's assuming a fairly mature practice. I have a question, also something I want to add to what you said.

[91:27]

to be in connection with the tree and a line of a poem comes up and then I should not try to find the poem to make it complete like some poets do And in doing so they lose their relationship to the tree or whatever they describe or talk about? But isn't it legitimate, I don't know whether that's the right word, to try to find a second and third line which express you're trying to stay in that relationship with the tree. And I'm conscious that I won't write a fourth line.

[93:11]

And then I wanted to say I would wish that I could make incomplete, unfinished pictures. You just call them fragments. And say they were discovered in a cave and were partially burned. Yeah, I understand. It's good to know when to stop. Even if it's just a fragment. Yeah. The question only is, should I lift a first sentence and then it's enough? Or should I put effort? I think... Am I allowed to put some effort? Ah, who's stopping you?

[94:20]

You can do whatever you want. You have to find out which feels best to you. And sometimes it's good to find that mind which stays open. So the second mind is also a first one. Yes. No, I agree. Yes. Could you also write a poem which only consists of first lines? Yes, that's what I like. We could, yes. Yes. I have another experience also as a writer. It's not only one line, it just flows out.

[95:25]

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