There was somebody else. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So what would you like to speak about? Something you said about space, I'm still wondering about. And when I sit, then there's a feeling that space opens.

[01:03]

And in sitting, I can follow what you said. But on the other hand, my head tells me that the outer space is almost infinite and many of the stars that we see may no longer exist because they are so infinitely far away. And there is space now. Earth has been a habitat for 400 million years or so, as long as the plant and animal world have developed. So there is enough space. That's what the head says. And that's where I'm in disagreement. But on the other hand, there is plenty of external space. I mean, the stars are so far away that some of them don't even exist anymore, even though we see them because they're so far away.

[02:08]

And there has been life space on Earth for 400 million years, or however long plants and so forth have been developing. So my head tells me that there's plenty of space. Yeah, if you want to build on a star, it's good. You and the little prince. Yeah, the point is not that there hasn't been the activity which creates space for... longer than we can comprehend. But it's still an activity which has created space. Space is independent, is interdependent with the stuff that makes it. So the stars are part of making the space.

[03:10]

And in that sense, we're making space right now. Also der Punkt ist nicht, dass die Aktivität, die den Raum macht, kreiert. Der Punkt ist nicht, dass es diese Aktivität nicht schon gab. Die gibt es schon länger, als wir das überhaupt begreifen können. Aber da ist eben immer noch die Tatsache, dass diese Aktivität den Raum macht. Es ist immer noch eine Aktivität und wir können an dieser Aktivität teilnehmen. So it doesn't depend on us. That means material. But the stars are us, too. In some way, they're us. And they were.

[04:13]

I mean, the important point for us in our living is not some kind of concern with the stars. But the point is we are making, we're not in a universal independent from us category called space. Space is a participatory activity and we're participating in it as are plants and animals. Zafus. One thing that's interesting, I don't want to start talking right away, but if I don't hear anybody,

[05:17]

I don't want to start talking right away, but if I don't hear anyone else... Yes, Gita. You're just waving at the stars. Yes, there are several topics at the same time that are not solved for me and where a part of my consciousness deals with them. There are several topics at once that for me aren't resolved and a part of my consciousness is working with them. Oh, good. And with the one thing, I have this question about, you mentioned the black holes, and how does that which the black hole swallows, how is that created?

[06:42]

Is that the question, how that is created? No, I mean, the stars and solar systems, and I don't know it anymore, I haven't learned it, how the solar systems are created, for me. The question. What we actually hide, how that is born again. He said, with the inhalation we come to the world and with the exhalation we go back. That's how the questions come through. How that which the black hole swallows, how that is created. And the question for me comes from, you said that we start with an inhalation and we end with an exhalation. And you may have some other plans, but... What corresponds to that, but I haven't really quite thought it through thoroughly, is about chaos.

[07:42]

I know that from the feeling of drawing, that is with closed eyes and two chalks, that western people draw. And I know this from a technique called lead drawing, where you close your eyes and you draw with two chalks in your hand. And for Westerners, it's very difficult to let go and enter chaos in that technique. And when that does occur, when they enter or engage a sense of chaos, then from that chaos a creative moment arises. Sounds good. Yes.

[09:11]

And these are the questions that were raised. And then there is this word chaos. And that is the third construction site. And the third construction site that keeps me busy is from chaos. I'm so glad that I'm a good contractor. And can help establish your construction sites. Yes, sir. Yes, now I don't know, Kekai, yes, Kekai. Yes, and the people, Kekai, the eastern people, says Hiroshi, where the spirit is more in the body.

[10:20]

If you imagine a complicated form for western people, do you always look? Yes. and want to understand it, and when they have understood it, they try to do it. And if you have an Asian, a Chinese, for example, she does zack, [...] and she has already done it. So when you show a Westerner a complicated drawing or something, then they... Oh, form or any form, like Tai Chi or something. And they first look and they concentrate and they try to understand it. And once they feel they've understood it, then they start doing it.

[11:21]

and but an asian person you show them and they have already uh started doing it um along the way so it's different and that's a different kind well that's interesting i i've never seen that but it sounds like it's probably true is A Qigong teacher in Asia, they don't speak at all. They just join the movement. Well, traditionally in Zen, you don't teach the Yoyoki, you don't teach anything. You just learn it by observation. And if you don't learn it by observation, you just... fuss around until you learn it. I cannot prevent people from giving instructions and explanations and rehearsing. Ich kann Leute nicht davon abhalten, dass sie immer wieder Anweisungen geben.

[12:34]

There's a ceremony coming up. People say, we have to rehearse. I say, don't rehearse. Just go in and do it. Also wenn zum Beispiel eine Zeremonie bevorsteht und ich sage, dann sagt jemand, dann müssen wir die vorher üben. Und dann sage ich, nein, jetzt übt die nichts, sondern lasst die einfach anfangen und wir machen die dann. We like to be prepared. I mean, some of the people who are my disciples, They prepare their talks before they go give a talk. And I keep saying, don't prepare. And one in particular, he gives very good talks, but it's taken him some years that he stopped preparing. I mean, you prepare in some... Okay, let's go to the no plays. No plays? N-O-H? They're not rehearsed.

[13:40]

But each of the various elements, the musicians, the drummers, the various actors, all know their parts separately. And they may practice their parts separately, but they don't practice together. And so when the performance is about to start, when the performance starts, they're all kind of like, okay, how are we going to do this? And it becomes creative and spontaneous through that. That's the way they create spontaneity. If spontaneity can be created, this is... Yeah, another what strikes me as a similar example, when I used to be part of the... redoing of the Haight-Ashbury in Germany in the 80s.

[14:55]

There was a whole time in the 80s when they kept doing conferences with all the people who were part of the 60s. And I was on the circuit. It was all right somehow. But there was a very good group of drummers who did Taiko drumming. But they were Europeans. And I saw a similar thing again. I was at Taiten Roshi's temple, Fudenji, in Italy, south of Milan. Is that right? I think so. I wasn't there, but yeah. Well, you were going to go, but you didn't go. And there really, I mean, I liked him a lot.

[16:02]

I was told he was the top judo winner in Italy at one time. I liked him very much. And I was told that he was the Italian judo champion. I feel like a wiki around him, like master of the timid dharma. Actually, I feel fine. I like him. Anyway, but they really imitated Japan. They've even had Japanese cooks come and show them how to make Non-nutritional, mushy Japanese food. Because the tradition of Japanese monastic food is based on poor farmers in the Middle Ages. Because you didn't want to eat better than the poor farmers.

[17:03]

And so it's pretty mushy, kind of like... I think we shouldn't be recording this. Yeah, okay. Yes. Reiner. I like seeing you in your red shirt and stuff. I could call it coincidental or synchronicity, but anyhow, in your presence I am swamped with lots of associations.

[18:33]

I hope so. And I don't feel like bringing up the discipline to only focus on one. I've never known you to be guilty of that. No, she isn't sick. She had to work. She could not change. Like she was here. Yeah. And I enjoyed Judith's honesty by saying it doesn't really reach me. And that brings me to the point where I now better understand why I became a body worker. So my idol at that time was William Wright.

[19:59]

And that's not just the one who built organ accumulators in his hybrid way and was really far away from a healthy understanding at the end of his life. My role model was Wilhelm Reich and he's not only the guy who built organ boxes towards the end of his life. The future of the orgasm was the orgasm. he loved life and was interested in studying it in his way. And I am noticing how much I enjoy following this These very fine, maybe subtle, very fine strands of thought.

[21:09]

But I'm noticing that I'm getting the message through your physical presence. And so therefore I'm grateful that you emphasize again that there is the Eastern view or Eastern way of being in the world and the Western. And I find it again fatal when, let's say, in this way of conscious usurpation or dominance, the spiritual body, the physical body, And I would find it fatal if, again, we would follow this Western tendency to possess the body with the mental.

[22:25]

Also, to say, the embodiment of the spirit. Perhaps one should also say the embodiment of the body. For example, when we say the embodiment of the mind, but maybe we should also say the minding of the body. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I say that sometimes. Yeah. And so therefore I would like you to show me or us the kin towards the end because I lost just the angle of how... You just put your thumb in your left hand and then you put your right hand on top of the

[23:31]

the fist, and then you turn it up slightly. Not a lot. Some people actually walk this way. But if you give it this way, there's not much alertness in it. You turn it, and there's suddenly a kind of alertness. Okay, so I said earlier, everything's falling apart. And I said also that Kek Kai is an act in the midst of chaos. In a way, what I mean to say is that everything is unpredictable. And what I mean is that everything is unpredictable. But if I say that everything is unpredictable, it sounds like it's happening later.

[24:39]

So if I say it's all falling apart right now, it's a little more experiential. Let me try to give you an example of what is meant by intrinsic, maybe I should say, intrinsic unpredictability. Okay. So let's just take a simple example that we all can experience and understand. Zen temples have gardens, if possible, for a number of reasons, beauty, blah, blah, blah, vegetables, yeah. But one of the reasons is just so there's songbirds in the morning. Zen temples have gardens, beautiful gardens, and that's for different reasons.

[25:47]

Some reasons are simply because of the aesthetics and so on, to have the facilities. But one reason is simply to have singing birds in the morning. And in Zen we do not get up because the sun gets up. You've noticed that sometimes. Yeah. We get up because we get up. The sun getting up is its own business. The roosters crowing for dawn, that's their job. If there are reasons why we get up, it's so that there's a mix between night mind and day mind. You're still a little asleep, asleep. wo du immer noch ein bisschen schläfst.

[26:52]

Isadora Duncan, you know who she was? She was a dancer. Born in San Francisco, she had a brother named Raymond Duncan. I was quite interested in them. And they were in the early 20th century, they were all over Europe. He was kind of the original hippie. And she was more or less the creator of modern dance, people would say, I guess. Isabel or Isadora? Isadora. Isadora, I mean. Isadora Duncan. Yeah, and someone asked her... what is the meaning of your dance and she said well if I could tell you I wouldn't have to dance it and there's a lot of things like that why do we get up in the morning it's actually you find out by getting up in the morning there's no real explanation

[28:17]

It's just done. Okay, so you're up in the morning and there's birds singing. So you hear the birds singing. Now, if you've shifted to the associational skandha, and then to the percept-only skandha, And then you hear birds. In Johanneshof we hear tractors and various things, but birds too. And it's not uncommon.

[29:25]

If you hear the birds while you're doing Zazen, there's a kind of bliss which accompanies it. And bliss like this seems to occur when you experience your experience. Because you're experiencing your own hearing, hearing. You're not hearing the bird, you're hearing your own hearing. Du hörst nicht den Vogel, sondern du hörst dein eigenes Hören. This is part of also being located in the body. Und auch das ist Teil davon, im Körper verortet zu sein. You feel your own body entering the room. You feel the activity of your body.

[30:31]

Which goes beyond anything you can think about the body. I get more and more familiar with just feeling the body doing things. What's going on here? Well, the body's doing things. I happen to be along for the road. Okay. Now, what You do know if you just give a few moments of mindful analytical noticing. You're not hearing the bird. in the range in rapidity with which the sounds are made.

[31:36]

You see, my job, her parents actually hired me, was to teach her English. She thinks she's here translating, but I'm actually paid by her father. I'm doing my best, but rapidity and rapidness. Oh dear. I've never told you this before. How do you think I live with so little money? I'm wondering, hmm, my father gets poorer and poorer. Yeah. But your English is getting... I'm sorry.

[32:40]

So it's a good English. Thinker-G. You can use that and you can just go in the apothecary and say, I need something to improve my thinker-G. Okay. Yeah, thank you. So you're not hearing, because the hearing of birds and the The way birds produce sounds is more complex than we can hear. We just don't have the range they... The bird song is within. Das Hören der Vögel und die Klänge, die die produzieren, ist... Our ears can't.

[33:41]

Yeah. Okay, so now what is that? Can we take it one more step in this mindful analytic observation? You're only hearing part of what's happening. And if you're only hearing part of what's happening, that means more is happening than you can hear. And if you only hear a part of what is happening, then it means that more is happening than what you can hear. And that is something different than, oh, how nice the bird sings, but this more, In other words, the more that the birds are thinking is part of your singing, is part of your world because it influences the relationship to other birds and blah, blah, blah, which is part of your world.

[35:04]

Now, Buddhist logic establishes that everything you see is only part of what you see, hear, think, etc. Die buddhistische Logik nimmt die Position ein, dass alles, was du wahrnimmst, immer nur ein... Is always only? Always more than what you hear or see. Alles ist immer mehr als das, was du wahrnehmen kannst, was du sehen, hören, denken kannst. And that moreness makes the world unpredictable. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have to think about prime numbers or something, for instance. Things happen with your math. You teach mathematics as well. But a prime number in another situation, the fact that you can't do certain things with it affects all the numbers around it.

[36:12]

I have to think about something like prime numbers. And you're a mathematician or you're learning mathematics. The prime number and the fact that you can't do anything with it at all, that affects all the numbers around it. So a prime number carries more with it in its inability to be divided and things like that, carries more with it than other numbers, or has different baggage than other numbers, and so affects when you bring it into an equation. Buddhist logic says everything is more. Not less. So emptiness is also a word for moreness. You are more than you think you are. Du bist mehr, als du glaubst, dass du bist.

[37:25]

And you're more than we think you are. Und du bist mehr, als wir denken, dass du bist. So that's one reason it's very difficult to predict what people are going to do. Und deshalb ist es ganz schwer... Their moreness takes over. ...her zu sagen, was die Leute als nächstes machen. Und ihre Mehrheit... Ihre Mehrheit... Ihre Mehrheit... ...rennt mit ihnen davon. So sometimes Nicola and others say, well, we have this, we have this kind of, and there's eight people living here now, and there will be 11 people. And I hear it and I think, well, maybe that's the way it is now. I have no sureness it's going to be like that in a few days or a few weeks or a few months. Sometimes Nicole or others come to me and describe the situation and say, now it's like this, now there are eight people here and then soon eleven and we have to plan. But I don't have the slightest certainty. I don't either. Yes, maybe it's like this now. No, no certainty that it will still be like this in a few days.

[38:30]

So the staff says, we can't do this. And I think, well, maybe there'll be more or less. Isn't it something like that? Yes. And I hope there was a lot more in that yes. Just a yes. You could hear it. Oh, that was a high, big time high. Anything else? Shall we stop for a while, have a little break and then go home? Pause. Pause. We are at 5 p.m. Okay, so let's have a 15 or 20-minute break.

[39:48]

Have you noticed I never like to say how long the break is? And I don't like to stop the break with the bell. And still it ends. Yeah, luckily. I'd never have gone home. Yeah, and still the break ends. It's true.

[40:09]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_80.95