Of course, I'm trying to teach you Zen practice or more accurately I'm trying to practice Zen practice with you, practice Zen with you. So why in this Winter Branches program am I emphasizing Yeah, starting out with the Abhidharma. Yeah, and first of all, I wanted to see what this group would be and what you could do or what we could do. But I think it's a good idea we... necessary idea to start out with the Abhidharma.

[01:02]

Now I believe that was in the invitation letter or I believe that it was mentioned, wasn't it, that you should look at the Abhidharma? So, I'd like to ask how many people read one or two books on the Abhidharma? One, two, three, four... Well, that's one. How much? Glimpses of Abhidharma, a little bit. Uh-huh. Chokyam Trungpa's book? Yeah, that's not bad, actually. So that's only three persons. Hmm. Why was that? Okay, how many people have read...

[02:02]

studied books on early Buddhism. Well, that's a little better. Okay. Now, when we started out, Gunther, you said you read as part of your practice regularly. What do you read? I read relatively many books about Zen. And just for the seminar here, I read Hande Witt. And just for the seminar, now I read Hande Witt. Hande Witt. Isn't he alive now? Yeah, I met him. He's a nice guy. I like him. The book was mentioned already.

[03:16]

It's a longer passage about Abhidharma. And what's the relationship between your practice and reading? Is there a relationship or you just like to read Buddhism? Is there a relationship between your practice and reading? Or do you just like to read? It's a quite clear relationship. I like concepts, as I said. As I said, I like concepts. And when I read, my concepts enlarge and widen and differentiate. And what I read I take into my day. I don't think much when reading, I just take it.

[04:18]

Also what I read like an image, I let sort of drop behind me. And I let this... I don't think much. I don't like to think much, so I let this do the work. Okay. When it reappears, then I think about it. Of course, I'm trying to... teach you Zen practice or more accurately I'm trying to practice Zen practice with you, practice Zen with you. So why in this Winter Branches program am I emphasizing Yeah, starting out with the Abhidharma. Yeah, and first of all, I wanted to see what this group would be and what you could do or what we could do.

[05:40]

But I think it's a good idea. necessary idea to start out with the Abhidharma. Now I believe that was in the invitation letter or form you filled out. I believe it was mentioned, wasn't it, that you should look at the Abhidharma? So, I thought to ask how many people read one or two books on the Abhidharma? One, two, three, four... Well, that's one. How much?

[06:42]

That's not bad, actually. So that's only three persons. Why was that? Okay, how many people have read... studied books on early Buddhism. Well, that's a little better. Okay. Now, when we started out, Gunther, you said you read as part of your practice regularly. What do you read? I read relatively many books about Zen.

[07:46]

And just for the seminar here, I read Hande Witt. And just for the seminar, now I read Hande Witt. Hande Witt. Isn't he alive now? Yeah, I met him. He's a nice guy. I like him. The book was mentioned already. It's a longer passage about Abhidharma. And what's the relationship between your practice and reading? Is there a relationship or do you just like to read Buddhism? Is there a relationship between your practice and reading? Or do you just like to read? It is a quite clear relationship. I like concepts, as I said. As I said, I like concepts.

[08:49]

And when I read my concepts enlarge and widen and differentiate, And what I read I take into my day. I don't think much when reading, I just take it. Most of what I read, like an image, I let sort of drop behind me. And I let this... I don't think much. I don't like to think much, so I let this do the work. Okay.

[09:50]

When it reappears, then I think about it. Yeah, okay. Now, I heard that Atmar suggested yesterday you have a meeting in one group. Is that right? And at least... Did you have a general discussion or at least one thing you discussed is having... some way of communicating with each other, or something like that? No, communication is also about what we want, the expectation from this interplanetary group, and also we want the group to be the direction we can give the group. Yeah, Deutsch bitte. Are you going to translate it? And what did you decide? What was the gist of what people would like? Well, it was... I mean, there's this group meeting now, and then we have a few weeks another group meeting, and there are more people coming and less people from that group, and then we meet again.

[11:24]

And actually, I think it's still not so clear how can we communicate and what do we do out of all that, what's new about this Winter Cranches program, and to start a discussion and to start to think about it and not just... wait what's going to happen. How many of you don't think reading or study is necessary or you haven't done it much up until now? And why do you think that? Why do you think so?

[12:28]

Yesterday you gave us this example of the wave and the following and leading. And as Roschi often mentioned, I have simply left it against my earlier activity. Yes, you gave us the example of wave following wave and wave leading wave. And as you gave us this example, contrary to my earlier, what I would have done in former times, I just left reading. I didn't do it, following your example. You mean you just had one wave on the ocean and no others? and I read koan but then I quit reading and rather worked with it you worked with koans but you quit reading them But you have to read them at least once to work with them.

[13:46]

Okay. Myself, I'm not a reading person. So if I read something, I just read it for information purpose. And that style of reading doesn't work for me. If I read Dogen, I fall asleep for seconds. So now I have to cultivate a different feeling. practice style. And I haven't done that yet. So that I really just read a little bit and practice it and read a little bit instead of reading one chapter and just can't cope with the information because either I can't grasp it or it's too overwhelming and I fall asleep. And she's a reasonably intelligent person too. Would you please speak in Deutsch? Yeah, okay. Now, I heard that Atmar suggested, yes, to you have a meeting in one group.

[15:09]

Is that right? And at least... Did you have a general discussion or at least one thing you discussed is having... some way of communicating with each other or something like that? Yeah, Deutsch bitte. Are you going to translate it? And what did you decide? What was the gist of what people would like? Well, it was... I mean, there's this group meeting now, and then we have a few weeks another group meeting, and there are more people coming and less people from that group, and then we meet again.

[16:24]

And actually, I think it's still not so clear how can we communicate and what do we do out of all that, what's new about this Winter Crenshaw's program, and to start a discussion and to start to think about it and not just... wait what's going to happen. How many of you don't think reading or study is necessary or you haven't done it much up until now? And why do you think that? Why do you think so?

[17:29]

Yesterday you gave us this example of the wave and the following and leading. And as Roschi often mentioned, I simply left it against my earlier activity. Yes, you gave us the example of wave following wave and wave leading wave. And as you gave us this example, contrary to my earlier, what I've done in former times, I just left reading. I didn't do it. Following your example. Mm-hmm. You mean you just had one wave on the ocean and no others? And I read Koan, but then I quit reading and rather worked with it. You worked with koans, but you quit reading them.

[18:42]

Yeah. But you have to read them at least once to work with them. Okay. Yeah. Myself, I'm not a reading person. So if I read something, I just read it for information purpose. And that style of reading doesn't work for me. If I read Dogen, I fall asleep in a second. So I know I have to cultivate a different... practice style. And I haven't done that yet. So that I really just read a little bit and practice it and read a little bit instead of reading one chapter and just can't cope with the information because either I can't grasp it or it's too overwhelming and I fall asleep. And she's a reasonably intelligent person too. Would you please speak in Deutsch? I am not a reader, and when I read, I read purely for informational reasons.

[19:49]

And when I read through, I start with the second sentence. I have to have a different kind of reading, a reading practice, that I read a few sentences, then I practice and then I read a few sentences again. When I read a whole paragraph, Either I don't understand it, or the information overwhelms me. There is nothing left hanging. Yeah. Is that your hand up? That was my hand up, yeah. All right, go ahead. It looks like, yeah. You might have been pointing to Andreas. No, no. Okay. About reading, when I started practicing, I read whatever I could get my hand on. Really, everything was available. And then after, certainly, I read the book after I needed to write through in German, and I just read it. And it was, yeah, just sort of inhaled it in a way.

[20:53]

And then after a while, I found this impetus to read disappeared. And then I read just sentences. I could just digest or swallow just single sentences of the Old Masters. So this has decreased very much. So now there is... Perhaps it's like you said, there has to be evolving a different reading mind, probably. Like you meaning Marie-Louise? Yes, like she said. That's what I presume now. So that's what I'm trying out now. So when I started practicing for 25 years, I really read everything I could get, even the dry ones and so on. Well, what the two of you mentioned in terms of reading practice The basic way of reading, it's not so different than Catholic practice, which is you read, I'm told, I've never done it, but you read a sentence or two and you put your head back and let it kind of send you.

[22:25]

And then you go back and read it, the next line, and then you let it send you, send you off, send you, give you a wide feeling. And then you read the next line and you, let the feeling of it enter into you. Like that. So that's something like reading practice texts or sutras. But of course some reading you'd read, as Marie-Louise says, for a kind of general picture or some historical background or something like that. You wouldn't read that. Columbus discovered America in 1492. That probably would be not good, too.

[23:30]

Oh, can I say something? Yeah. When we translated something with cars in America, a little thing of dogma, it was like two sentences total. That was extremely helpful because suddenly you don't like... When I translate English, I sometimes translate two words parallel because it's in between those two words, the English word. And the same thing was with the Japanese. We suddenly have... several words for what one word meant and you sort of try to jiggle your way into what it actually could mean more or less and you're talking about it what this includes if it's more like this word or more like that word that was extremely helpful so if it gets into this pace of reading or that's my best experience with words and Zen so I remember when we were in Creston with K.S.

[24:49]

Tanahashi and B.K. Roshi have translated the text, but in those few days they only translated two or three sentences, but what it has brought is that, for example, they read a few sentences, they practice, and then they read a few sentences again. If I read a whole paragraph, either I don't understand it, or the information overwhelms me, there is nothing left. Yeah. Is that your hand up? That was my hand up, yeah. All right, go ahead. It looks like, yeah. You might have been pointing to Andreas. No, no. Okay. About reading, when I started practicing, I read whatever I could get my hand on. Really, everything was available. And then after, certainly, I read the book after I needed to write through in German, and I just read it. And it was, yeah, just sort of inhaled it in a way.

[25:53]

And then after a while, I found this impetus to read disappeared. And then I read just sentences. I could just digest or swallow just single sentences of the old master's. So this has decreased very much. So now there is... Perhaps it's like you said, there has to be evolving a different reading mind probably. Like you meaning Marie-Louise? Yes, like she said. That's what I presume now. So that's what I'm trying out now. When I started to practice for 25 years, I literally read everything I could get, even the dry ones and so on. What the two of you mentioned in terms of reading practice The basic way of reading, it's not so different than Catholic practice, which is you read, I'm told, I've never done it, but you read a sentence or two and you put your head back and let it kind of send you.

[27:25]

And then you go back and read it, the next line, and then you let it send you, send you off, send you, give you a wide feeling. And then you read the next line and you... let the feeling of it enter into you. Like that. So that's something like reading practice texts or sutras. But of course some reading you'd read, as Marie-Louise says, for a kind of general picture or some historical background or something like that. You wouldn't read that. Columbus discovered America in 1492. So there is this reading of the Sultans and letting them rise to the heavens.

[28:30]

But then there is also the reading of information. You wouldn't read that Columbus discovered America in 1492 and let him rise to the heavens. Can I say something? Yeah. When we translated something with cars in America, a little thing of Dogon, it was like two sentences total. That was extremely helpful, because suddenly you don't like... When I translate English, I sometimes translate two words parallel, because it's in between those two words, the English word. And the same thing was with the Japanese. We suddenly have several words for what one word meant, and you sort of try to jiggle your way into what it actually could mean, more or less, and you're talking about it. what this includes, if it's more like this word or more like that word, that was extremely helpful.

[29:34]

So if it gets into this pace of reading, that's my best experience with words and that. So here I remember when we were in Creston, with Kairos, Tanahashi and Bekiroshi translated the text. But in those few days we only had two or three sentences maximum. But what it brought was, for example, when I translate into German, I sometimes put two verbs parallel next to each other, because both fit a little with what English is. And so we had several verbs. and that all of them mean that. And then with Kuroji's explanation and so on, it moved in one direction from one verb. That was super helpful. So that it really goes sentence by sentence or word by word. And then, I don't know, that was my best written Zen experience or writing-reading experience I've ever had.

[30:36]

Okay, if you've had that experience, why don't you read that way, in general? Because I don't have the freedom of seeing different words in there if I just get one word. It's not, you know, if I hear a foreign language, I can feel in German lots of words if I have to translate it. But if it's already in a language, I don't know what freedom I have. But it's maybe, I don't know, it's a kind of fear of the text or something. Yeah, well, I mean, you may, some of us may have been brought up in families which don't read, etc., so you never develop the habit. But when I read, unless I'm just reading for, as you say, information, I read and notice whether something's being said that I haven't thought of before. And if I haven't thought of it before, then I become very curious.

[31:41]

And then sometimes I try to say, if I thought of that or said that, how would I say it? Then I actually rewrite the paragraph. So really I'm having a kind of conversation with the author. He says, I'd say it this way and I'd say well I'd say it this way and then I'd say Actually, the way you said it is better. And then I'm in some awe of the text I'm reading.

[32:41]

And if I can't have that kind of conversation, then I don't bother with the book much. I'll come back to those who had their hand over here, but you? No, behind, yeah. I would like to add to what Marie-Louise and Neil said, and I hope it doesn't sound too arrogant. At the beginning, when I started reading, it gave me the impetus, the feeling... You started reading. As a child, you mean?

[33:49]

No. I wasn't alone with my feelings and thoughts. It was important for me to get out of this isolation of thinking and to get out of thinking and feeling, not to feel so separated, but to be in the reading. It was extremely important for me to get out of that isolation of feeling and thinking and to find myself again in this reading, in this text. And today, as I know, I haven't invented all the things, but there is... Invented? Invented, yeah. Or do you think there's a play between recognizing and recognizing?

[34:57]

When I translate English into German, sometimes I have to put two verbs parallel to each other, because both of them are a bit similar to what English is. And so he then had several verbs that all mean that. And then with Karoshi's explanation and so on, it moved in one direction from one verb. That was super helpful. So that it really goes sentence by sentence or word by word. And then, I don't know, that was my best written Zen experience or writing and reading experience I ever had. Okay, if you've had that experience, why don't you read that way in general? Because I don't have the freedom of seeing different words in there if I just get one word. It's not, you know, if I hear a foreign language, I can feel in German lots of words if I have to translate it. But if it's already in a language, I don't know what freedom I have. But it's maybe, I don't know, it's kind of fear of the text or something.

[36:04]

Yeah, well, I mean, you may, some of us may have been brought up in Families which don't read, et cetera, so you never develop the habit. But when I read, unless I'm just reading for, as you say, information, I read and notice whether something's being said that I haven't thought of before. And if I haven't thought of it before, then I become very curious. And then sometimes I try to say, if I thought of that or said that, how would I say it?

[37:07]

Then I actually rewrite the paragraph. So really I'm having a kind of conversation with the author. He says, I'd say it this way, and I'd say it this way, and then I'd say, actually, the way you said it is better. And then I'm in some awe of the person, the text I'm reading. And if I can't have that kind of conversation, Yeah, then I don't bother with the book much. I'll come back to those who had their hand over here, but you?

[38:08]

No, behind, yeah. I would like to add to what Marie-Louise and you said, and I hope it doesn't sound too arrogant. At the beginning, when I started reading, it gave me the impetus, the feeling... You started reading. As a child you mean? I wasn't alone with my feelings and thoughts. It was extremely important for me to get out of that isolation of feeling and thinking and to find myself again in this reading, in this text.

[39:19]

And today, as I know, I haven't invented all the things, but... Invented? Invented, yeah. Or do you think there's a play between recognizing and newly sort of creating and recognizing? So there's this interplay. Yeah, that's great. It doesn't sound arrogant. It sounds like the way it should be. Yeah. You know, with the... Some years ago, for a year and a half or so, I met with a small group of people who already had teaching responsibility.

[40:39]

I don't remember how many people it was now, seven or... At one of the meetings I had each person give a report to the group. And then we all critiqued what the person said. Yeah, more or less a traditional university seminar. But this took a week of being together and it took seven people or something. So maybe after this seminar the rhythm branches will suddenly be six or seven people. And somebody else suggested that we should have us all lined up as... In two rows of monks or two rows of practitioners facing each other.

[42:01]

And then perhaps in Tibetan fashion we debate each other constantly. But one thing I'm trying to find out in this week is what viable form can we do this? And maybe I should give homework. And I should say... These five books you read before the next seminar or don't come. I don't know. Because I'm trying to prevent myself from retiring.

[43:06]

If you do this, I won't retire. If it doesn't work, I'm going to retire early and concentrate on my own writing. I'm not threatening you. I just have to do something in the last ten years of my life. So I'm seeing if this works. Pins in you. Yeah, there's no pension. Pension? A pensioner? There is no pensioner. If it doesn't work, you have to do it so that I don't withdraw. If it doesn't work, I have to do something in the last ten years of my life. And if it doesn't work, I withdraw and write whatever I have to write. Because, you know, I mean, your relationship to study and reading is my fault.

[44:24]

I mean, it's your fault too, but it's also my fault because I've never emphasized it. So if I give you a practice like reading, Let's say momentarily existent. And I think that I can say it in a way or give you a feeling for it that will... And newly sort of creating and recognizing so there's this interplay. Yeah, that's great. It doesn't sound arrogant. It sounds like the way it should be. Some years ago, for a year and a half or so, I met with a small group of people who already had teaching responsibility.

[45:39]

I don't remember how many people it was now, seven or eight or something. At one of the meetings, I had each person give a report to the group. And then we all critiqued what the person said. Yeah, more or less a traditional university seminar. But this took a week of being together and it took seven people or something. So maybe after this seminar the winter branches will suddenly be seven or eight, six or seven people.

[46:41]

And somebody else suggested that we should have us all lined up as... in two rows of monks or two rows of practitioners facing each other. And then perhaps in Tibetan fashion we debate each other constantly. But one thing I'm trying to find out in this week is what viable form can we do this? And maybe I should give homework. And I should say... These, you know, five books you read before the next seminar or don't come.

[47:54]

I don't know, because I'm trying to prevent myself from retiring. If you do this, I won't retire. If it doesn't work, I'm going to retire early and concentrate on my own writing. I'm not threatening you. I just have to do something in the last ten years of my life. So I'm seeing if this works. Yeah, there's no pension. Pension? A pensioner? There is a pensioner. If it doesn't work, you have to make it work so I don't withdraw. If it doesn't work, I have to do something in the last ten years of my life. And if it doesn't work, I withdraw and write whatever I have to write.

[49:04]

Because, you know, I mean, your relationship to study and reading is my fault. I mean, it's your fault too, but it's also my fault because I've never emphasized it. So if I give you a practice like... Let's say momentarily existent. And I think that I can say it in a way or give you a feeling for it that I can say it in a way that you catch the feeling of it. And you can sense its truth.

[50:24]

Okay. So you take this phrase, momentarily existent, And you actually can feel yourself have a glimpse of momentarily existence. At some point, sitting here in the garden or sitting in a restaurant, in a cafe by yourself perhaps, you have this feeling of momentarily existence. And almost as you disappear in between, Yeah, and your sense of a substantial self drops away. And your sense of an assumed self even drops away. Mm-hmm. And you start to feel the gaps.

[51:39]

The gaps almost become more real than the momentarily existing. If you catch that feeling and practice it, And practice in a way that it really enters into you. In my little bus example yesterday, suddenly that there was no choice. future disappeared. If it enters into you in that way, so it becomes something that's always part of your experience now. So it becomes really a transformation of all your experience. You're practicing Zen.

[52:52]

But you're also practicing a teaching that arose through the Abhidharma teachings. And it's a very particular way Zen, as a late development within Buddhism, developed to bring the teachings into the practice of individual practice of people. And it was developed as a kind of surgical practice for urban, literate Chinese guys and gals. Because Buddhism came into China at the time when it was tremendously urbanized, sophisticated culture. And the people who practiced it were very literati class.

[54:07]

And we can look at Tibetan Buddhism. It's very different. Tibetan Buddhism came into a culture which was not sophisticated, urbanized, or literate. And sophisticated. Urbanized. It was not urbanized. No, no, no, not. And not literate. And not sophisticated. I can say it. in a way that you catch the feeling of it. And you can sense its So you take this phrase, momentarily existent,

[55:28]

And you actually can feel yourself have a glimpse of momentarily existence. At some point, sitting here in the garden or sitting in a restaurant, in a cafe by yourself perhaps, you have this feeling of momentarily existence. And almost as you disappear in between, And your sense of a substantial self drops away. And your sense of an assumed self even drops away. Mm-hmm. And you start to feel the gaps.

[56:39]

The gaps almost become more real than the momentarily existing. If you catch that feeling in practice, And practice in a way that it really enters into you. In my little bus example you see suddenly that there was no choice and the future disappeared. If it enters into you in that way, so it becomes something that's always part of your experience now. Or it becomes really a transformation of all your experience. You're practicing Zen. But you're also practicing a teaching that arose through the Abhidharma teachings.

[57:59]

And it's a very particular way Zen, as a late development within Buddhism, developed to bring the teachings into the practice of individual practice of people. It was developed as a kind of surgical practice for urban, literate Chinese guys and gals. Because Buddhism came into China at the time when it was tremendously urbanized, sophisticated culture.

[59:01]

And the people who practiced it were very literati class. And we can look at Tibetan Buddhism, it's very different. Tibetan Buddhism came into a culture which was not sophisticated, urbanized, or literate. And if we compare it with Tibetan Buddhism, when Buddhism came there, it was neither urbanized nor read, urbanized, literate, sophisticated. that was not urbanized and not literate not sophisticated and so they could bring they could start with the culture as a whole and young people and their whole education was Buddhist but Zen had to take an acupuncture approach

[60:13]

It had to find a way to get in between people's usual way of thinking and then these phrases developed. And they're realisational practices. You can have You can realize enlightenment for sure through these practices. But you probably can't transmit Buddhism. You don't know enough through just that kind of experience to get somebody else to really understand. And those practices, you know, we have various levels of crises in our life. If the crises get big enough, your practice can collapse. And your practice will be stronger if you understand where these practices came from, and you can then have the capacity to develop your own practices, not just practices your teacher gave you or the tradition gave you.

[62:03]

So maybe these first winter branches would be to convince you to study. We'll see if the next meetings can be more based on study. Because I'm happy to present to you some of the Abhidharma teachings and relate them to Zen practice. But it's much easier for me, and you'll understand it much better if you've done your own study, and I can present some key aspects, and you can see how it fits together.

[63:09]

No, I mean, maybe I've... I don't know, for... 10 or 15 years, my job was to introduce practice into the culture. I've done enough of that. There's so many people practicing, I'm swamped. I mean, not me, the culture is swamped by proto-Buddhists. And then maybe the second stage, what I'd say is the development in our culture in some parallel way to China to realisational practices.

[64:14]

And so now my job, I think, is the 10 years I have left are optimistically 20 or 40, you know. Jojo lived to be 120, I don't know. Most people, I've known several people over 100 and they... They say, you know, 90 would have been good enough. And so they could bring up, they could start with the culture as a whole and young people and their whole education was Buddhist. But Zen had to take an acupuncture approach. It had to find a way to get in between people's usual way of habit, thinking it.

[65:16]

And then these phrases develop. And they're realisational practices. You can have... You can realise enlightenment for sure through these practices. But you probably can't transmit Buddhism. You don't know enough through just that kind of experience to get somebody else to really understand. And those practices, you know, we have various levels of crises in our life. If the crises get big enough, your practice can collapse. We have different levels or types of crises in our lives and when the crisis is big enough, then the practice collapses.

[66:40]

Your practice will be stronger if you understand where these practices came from and you can then have the capacity to develop your own practices, not just practices your teacher gave you or the tradition gave you. So maybe this first winter branches will be to convince you to study. And... We'll see if the next meetings can be more based on study. Because I'm happy to present to you some of the Abhidharma teachings and relate them to Zen practice. But it's much easier for me, and you'll understand it much better if you've done your own study, and I can present some key aspects, and you can see how it fits together.

[68:09]

No, I mean, maybe I've... I don't know, for... 10 or 15 years, my job was to introduce practice into the culture. I've done enough of that. There's so many people practicing, I'm swamped. I mean, not me, the culture is swamped by proto-Buddhists. And then maybe the second stage, what I'd say is the development in our culture in some parallel way to China to realisational practices.

[69:14]

And so now my job, I think, is the 10 years I have left are optimistically 20 or 40, you know. Jojo lived to be 120, I don't know. Most people, I've known several people over 100 and they... They say, you know, 90 would have been good enough. Is to teach Buddhism in a way that will be transmitted to successive generations. Okay, now I know we're running over a bit, not as bad as yesterday. And I think, Andreas, you were first. I didn't like it as much as Neil said.

[70:33]

In the beginning, when I was practising, I read a lot. My situation was a little like Nils, reading in the beginning a lot, but then after having met you... I'm just the one who stops people reading. No, it's not that. No, but I think she says. So she stopped reading and took up the shakuhachi. But I had to find a way in my practice and after having met you to integrate all that I read into my practice. Well, that took time. Oh, yeah, that's good. But for example, I read Dogen and I have the feeling I haven't read it for 20 times, I haven't even read it.

[71:36]

And it opens up more and more. I also know this idea, what you have described, I take a text, even if I was about Amitabha, I had not found a book, but sometimes parts of it can be read from the internet, or from the Padi Canon, or from Sutra, then it can be that somehow, I didn't have a book on Abhidharma, but I took parts from the internet or very old Pali text, whatever. I don't have the feeling I have to read it all through in one, but I take parts... From Google Guru. Yahoo Guru.

[72:38]

Yahoo Guru. Yahoo Guru. Yeah, I take parts and chew them and digest them, but don't read it and... Good, well, that's good. The others are possible, maybe, but if I read the Diamond Sutra, for example, I stop at the second or the third page, and then I need weeks maybe to work with this. That's good. Okay. Yeah, it took me, I think it took me two years... Paragraph by paragraph to read the Lankavatara Sutra, practicing it. Line by line it took me, I don't know, seven, eight months to read the Diamond Sutra. Lona? I think for years, thinking, reading and talking was my lifelong practice.

[73:44]

It was connected, of course, much with my experience, but I also talked to trees and to flowers. We can take all kinds, you know. I read very much to read and in the moment it has two functions to read Buddhism books. In the morning before sitting I read also to get the fire to sit, to get the motivation. Did you say that in German or English?

[74:57]

I said that in German. Okay, go ahead. Teach Buddhism in a way that will be transmitted to successive generations. Okay, now I know we're running over a bit, not as bad as yesterday. And I think, Andreas, you were first. I didn't like it as much as Niel said. In the beginning, when I was practising, I read a lot. My situation was a little like Nils, reading in the beginning a lot, but then after having met you... I'm just the one who stops people reading. No, it's not that. So she stopped reading and took up the shakuhachi.

[76:16]

But I had to find a way in my practice, and after having met you, to integrate all that I read into my practice. Well, that took time. Oh, yeah, that's good. But for example, I read Dogen and I have the feeling I haven't read it for 20 times, I haven't even read it. And it opens up more and more. I also know this idea, what you have described, I take a text, even if I was there, I could not find it, but sometimes parts of it can be read from the internet, or from the Padi Canon, or from Sutra, then it can be that somehow, I didn't have a book on Abhidharma, but I took parts from the Internet or very old Pali text, whatever.

[77:29]

I don't have the feeling I have to read it all through in one, but I take parts... From Google Guru. Yahoo Guru. Yahoo Guru. Yeah, I take parts and chew them and digest them, but don't read it and... Good, well, that's good. The other is not possible, maybe, but if I read the Diamond Sutra, for example, I stop at the second or the third page, and then I need weeks maybe to work with this. That's good. Okay. Yeah, it took me, I think, it took me two years... Paragraph by paragraph to read the Lankavatara Sutra, practicing it. Line by line it took me, I don't know, seven, eight months to read the Diamond Sutra. Lona? I think for years, thinking, reading and talking was my lifelong practice.

[78:44]

It was connected, of course, much with my experience, but I also talked to trees and to flowers. We can take all kinds, you know. As a practice, for example, I read in the morning before sitting in order to heat the kettle and sit. Did you say that in German or English?

[79:57]

I said that in German. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. We have just switched. We have just switched. We have just switched. Yeah, she didn't notice speaking in English. Yeah, sure, go ahead. That's an example, yeah. And on the background, what I have thought, I have a conversation with the authors, like you said, And I read very thoroughly and I chew on it and... Mullet, yeah.

[81:11]

Chew on it, mull over it, yeah. Really try to. And I could re, not produce it, but I could sort of utter this in a very small group of two or three people, but I couldn't utter it publicly. Yeah. Because I don't take the information as information. When I would have to do that, what you want us to do, I would like in university, sit, read a text, write things out, underline them, and memorize them differently than what I did before. This I didn't do. Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know if that's what I want you to do, but And I think Gerhard, somebody had their hand up earlier.

[82:11]

For me reading was very important. And it was reading that gave me access to a sitting instruction and start sitting. And what I'm definitely missing, when I just have my own practice available, are different aspects of looking at my own practice. For example, What I miss is different views and aspects concerning also my practice and I took the Abhidharma to be sort of like a prescription, you know. Like a recipe.

[83:24]

Yeah, that's what it is. And then when reading, things pop up or come up and may even correct views I had before. And I also believe that it... And it fertilizes in a way the way I am doing my meditation. And to get such things in, not only, I say now, from books that are by any authors, but also from an authority in this field, which I, as a confidant, recognize as the Roschi, that is exactly the reason why I, for example, came to this Winterzweig.

[84:29]

Can you say that again? I didn't quite understand that. If I would take any book, I would have probably doubts about if this is real genuine. But an authority like you, which I trust, this is the reason why I came to Vendor Branches. We have just switched. [...] On the background, what I have thought, I have a conversation with the authors, like you said.

[85:34]

And I read very thoroughly and I chew on it and... Mullet, yeah. Chew on it, mullet it, yeah. Really try to. And I could re... not produce it, but I could sort of utter this in a very small group of two or three people, but I couldn't utter it publicly. Yeah. Because I don't take the information as information. When I would have to do that, what you want us to do, I would like in university, sit, read a text, write things out, underline them, and memorize them differently than what I did before.

[86:58]

This I didn't do. Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know if that's what I want you to do, but And I think Gerhard, somebody had their hand up earlier. For me reading was very important. And it was reading that gave me access to a sitting instruction and start sitting. And what I'm definitely missing, when I just have my own practice available, are different aspects of the practice. For example, What I miss is different views and aspects concerning also my practice and I took the Abhidharma to be sort of like a prescription, you know.

[88:13]

Like a recipe. Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. Und auf der Stelle gibt es dann einige Dinge, die hochkommen, die verständlich werden oder die man bisher hat, auch korrigieren. And then, when reading, things pop up or come up and may even correct views I had before. Und ich glaube auch, dass es mich And it fertilizes in a way the way I am doing my meditation. not only from books by some authors, but also from an authority in this field that I, as a confidant, recognize as Roschi.

[89:24]

That is exactly the reason why I came to this winter series. Can you say that again? I didn't quite understand that. If I would take any book, I would have probably doubts about if this is real genuine. But an authority like you, which I trust, this is the reason why I came to Venterbranches. Okay. Okay. At what time is it my watch seems to have stopped conveniently? It's 10.37. 10.37? Oh. My watch says 10 to 9. No, 10 to 10. 10.37. 10.37. I'm supposed to stop at 10.45. Is that right? I don't know. Yes.

[90:31]

Oh, so we have time. I'm not so bad. I was reading this. I don't know. Got to get it fixed. I have to bring my cuckoo clock down. Put it right here. Okay, Fritz. For me it's, I got the impression, I have the feeling, I have to realize that you're serving the yogic dish, a very delicious yogic dish where we can eat deliciously and then you ask, now you're asking the dry bones of the Pandit to add and... If I come to a restaurant and get a delicious meal, so I'm not concerned about cooking.

[91:35]

But now the cook says, sorry, this is... The customers have to share the kitchen with me. They have to do the dishes, yeah. The recipe, the abhidharma take the recipe book and... start cooking. This is so... Then the spoiled customer would say, oh, wow, what am I? I used to go and have fun in this restaurant with food eating. Now I have to work my own. This kind of... Now, if I realize that the service is being closed, if they not start cooking with this, then I say, okay, In order to get this restaurant running, now I realize I have to do the recipes and put the bones and take the bones from where I get the delicious meat from.

[92:43]

So then I realize, okay, then I'm convinced to do it. Otherwise, I say, oh, well, the second dish. Deutsch, bitte. It's come before us. We have a good restaurant here. Oshie serves us the Georgian menu. And we don't have to worry about the cooking of the dish. Because he serves us perfectly. And now he says to the people, the cook is finally here. I have to take care of the kitchen myself now. and you have to be clear which ingredients I have used, which recipes I have used to serve you a yogi delicacy. And when I realize that the cook will adjust his cooking, he says, if one of you If you cook with me, I will bring you the right ingredients to choose from and to compose.

[94:04]

Then we will have the interest to continue to be a good restaurant. Yeah, I think your image is very good. Yeah, I'm now interested in continuing the restaurant, Meals. Yeah. And, you know, I do feel, maybe I've been serving good yogurt dishes, sometimes I think it's too much dessert. Okay. What time is it? My watch seems to have stopped conveniently. It's 10.37. Okay. 1037?

[95:12]

Oh. What says 10 to 9? No, 10 to 10. 1037. I'm supposed to stop at 1045. Is that right? I don't know. Oh, so we have time. I'm not so bad. I was reading this. I don't know. Got to get it fixed. Um... I have to bring my cuckoo clock down. Put it right here. Okay, Fritz. For me it's, I got the impression, I have the feeling, I have to realize that you're serving the yogic dish, a very delicious yogic dish where we can eat deliciously and then you ask, now you're asking the dry bones of the Pandit to add and...

[96:27]

If I come to a restaurant and get a delicious meal, so I'm not concerned about cooking. But now the cook says, sorry, this is... The customers have to share the kitchen with me. You have to do the dishes, yeah. The recipe, the abhidharma, take the recipe book and... start cooking. This is so. Then the spoiled customer would say, oh, wow, what am I? I used to go and have fun in this restaurant with food eating. Now I have to work my own. This kind of a... Now, if I realize that the service is being closed, if they let the staff cook in the kitchen, then I say, okay, In order to get this restaurant running, now I realize I have to do the recipes and put the bones.

[97:35]

and take out the bones from where I get the delicious meat from. So then I realized, okay, then I'm convinced to do it. Otherwise I say, oh, well, I have to thank Dich. Deutsch bitte. Es kommt mir vor, als wären wir hier in einem guten Restaurant und Voschiezer serviert uns den Georgischen Menü und wir We don't have to worry about the cooking of the dish, because he serves us perfectly. And now he says to the people, the cook is finally here. I have to take care of the kitchen myself now. and you have to be clear about what ingredients I used, what recipes I used to serve you a yogi delicacy. And when I realized that the cook was going to set up his cook, he said, if any of you

[98:37]

If you cook with me, I will bring you the right ingredients to compose. Then we will have the interest to continue to be a good restaurant. Yeah, I think your image is very good. Yeah, I'm now interested in continuing the restaurant, And, you know, I do feel, maybe I've been serving good yogurt dishes, sometimes I think it's too much dessert. And some people think dessert's the end of the meal.

[99:57]

But I particularly like going to a restaurant with a person who cooks. Marie-Louise and I went with Dan to Frosca, right? It's called Frosca. Frosca. It's a... Finally, Boulder has a good restaurant. Yeah. And... So... Yeah, I heard it was maybe good, so I stopped by one day, and I went in, and they happened to have two weeks or more in advance for reservations, but they happened to have a place late at night when I walked by on a bench, kind of bench bar, and so I sat down.

[101:07]

And I saw on the menu the first thing, coleslaw. And I thought, this is supposed to be such a good restaurant and they're serving coleslaw? And so I ordered it to see what it's like. Because in America coleslaw is pretty bad. and it's served with sort of junk food, a little symbolic vegetable. And coleslaw in Germany, various versions of it, Sour things are so much better in Germany.

[102:17]

Try get this little... golden red dish of stuff and I ate it. It was the best coleslaw I ever had in my life. So every time I go I always have coleslaw and usually something else. So I went with Dan who's a cook and I said Dan Try this coleslaw. So what did Dan say? He agreed this is extraordinary. He was thrilled. He said, oh, my God, this is unbelievable vinegar, he said. So what did we find out? He asked the waiter, made the waiter come and said, what is this vinegar?

[103:19]

And the waiter said, this is very special vinegar from such and such a place, 25 years old, and he went in the kitchen and came with the bottle and showed you what it was. Well, it took a cook to notice it, to tell me what was extraordinary about it. And I would like these teachings, you to be able to cook them and tell me what's in them. Your attitude, though, about reading is somewhat supported by... And I'm going to stop now. Practices, for instance, at Daitokiji, the Rinzai monastery I practiced in for two and a half years.

[104:24]

As I've told you before, I think. You're only allowed to study, you're not allowed to study at all, first of all, first two or three years. But they can't stop you from studying in the toilet. Except there's no light in the... Yeah. And some people think dessert's the end of the meal. But I particularly like going to a restaurant with a person who cooks. Marie-Louise and I went with Dan to Frosca, right? It's called Frosca. Frosca. Yeah. Finally, Boulder has a good restaurant. Yeah. And so... Yeah, I heard it was maybe good, so I stopped by one day, and I went in, and they happened to have two weeks or more in advance for reservations, but they happened to have a place late at night when I walked by on a bench, kind of bench bar, and so I sat down.

[106:07]

And I saw on the menu the first thing, coleslaw. And I thought, is this supposed to be such a good restaurant? They're serving coleslaw? And so I ordered it to see what it's like. Because in America, coleslaw is pretty bad. and it's served with sort of junk food, a little symbolic vegetable. And coleslaw in Germany, various versions of it, sour things are so much better in Germany.

[107:17]

Try get this little... golden red dish of stuff and I ate it. It was the best coleslaw I ever had in my life. So every time I go I always have coleslaw and usually something else. So I went with Dan who's a cook and I said Dan Try this coleslaw. So what did Dan say? He agreed, this is extraordinary. He was thrilled. He said, oh, my God, this is unbelievable vinegar, he said. So what did we find out? He asked the waiter, made the waiter come and said, what is this vinegar?

[108:19]

And the waiter said, this is very special vinegar from such and such a place, 25 years old, and he went in the kitchen and came with the bottle and showed it to us. Well, it took a cook to notice it, to tell me what was extraordinary about it. And I would like these teachings, you to be able to cook them and tell me what's in them. Your attitude about reading is somewhat supported by... And I'm going to stop now. Practices, for instance, at Daitoku-ji, the Rinzai monastery I practiced in for two and a half years.

[109:25]

As I've told you before, I think. You're only allowed to study, you're not allowed to study at all, first of all, first two or three years. But they can't stop you from studying in the toilet. Except there's no light in the toilet. And if you have to go to Doksan, and you really want to know something about, you know, it's 4.30 in the morning and it's dark and you're squatting over this hole full of shit. And there's no light, so you've got to light book matches is the only thing small enough to hide in your sleeves.

[110:35]

So you're trying to read and you get one match that's burning your fingers and you're trying to read and sometimes you drop your book And then you're, God darn it. It's true. So, you know, reading isn't supported. But after two or three years of this, you really want to have a chance to read. That's a typical Japanese question. And then when you have a chance, like maybe Gerhard said, then at some point you really have a chance and you can really bring it into your practice.

[111:41]

Then you can continue the restaurant. Okay, thanks. And if you have to go to Doksan, and you really want to know something about, you know, it's 4.30 in the morning and it's dark and you're squatting over this hole full of shit. And there's no light, so you've got to... light book matches is the only thing small enough to hide in your sleeves. So you're trying to read and you get one match that's burning your fingers and you're trying to read and sometimes you drop your book And then you're, God darn it.

[112:52]

It's true. So, you know, reading isn't supported. But after two or three years of this, you really want to have a chance to read. That's a typical Japanese approach. And then when you have a chance, like maybe Gerhard said, then at some point you really have a chance and you can really bring it into your practice. Then you can continue the restaurant. Okay, thanks.

[113:43]

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