Now it's difficult. The last skandha is consciousness. This skandha goes out of these five, but at the same time closes all other Is it possible that for a scholar where association happens I'm creating a sort of network where all of us connect things that have been separate before? Yes, definitely. If this sequence is kind of important, how can form be before perception?

[01:04]

How can see form as form before perception? Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. Because... Because perception is... T.S. Eliot has a line, something like the... a muddle of imprecision in perception. A muddle? A muddle is like a puddle of mud and a muddle all mixed up in it. LAUGHTER of imprecision imprecision in perception in perception yeah and most of us it just doesn't our whole culture is directed toward

[02:06]

a kind of efficiency which allows us to accomplish things in the outer world. And in that it's very successful. But it has very limited language and clarity about how to describe inner processes. Okay, so to use the word perception Can I introduce a term here? Let's call this upstream, all right? Now, some of you again who are in the Sashin have seen this introduced before, but it takes a long time to get the skandhas in view. So this is only another attempt to help you get the skandhas in view. So this is downstream.

[03:22]

This is a perception occurs here. So perception is an upstream of here. And perception is to seize hold of something and give it shape. So it's an upstream word used to describe a downstream process. It's the other way around. Yeah, I think it's the other way around. This is downstream. Yes, but you said it absolutely wrong. I meant you're using a downstream term... Well, maybe I didn't. You're using a downstream term to describe an upstream process.

[04:48]

I said it the other way around. Oh, all right. Sorry. You have downstream... Okay. Really, there should be one term for this and a different term for this. But because we don't make that fine a distinction, in English at least, we use the word perception for both. And since we can't make these subtle differences in English, we use the word perception for both. But you can also see these differences from down here, which are very mental, very conscious, to the physical world up there. So this is a step in the process of changing something in the physical world into consciousness.

[06:07]

Okay, so it is a little difficult to describe, though, how this difference from this And I think that the Rika's word signal is good. Again, in Buddhism there is no truth. There's trust and there are things that are for all practical purposes true. But there's no truth out there for all times and all worlds. So these things are not understood primarily as being true. They're understood as being useful.

[07:17]

They're a map. And as Gregory Bateson and the guy who just started Exodus, the map is not the territory. In other words, the map may show you where the roads are, but it doesn't show you where the ants are. But if you're trying to drive again between Freiburg and Heidelberg, you don't need to know where the ants are. Okay, and this is trying to show you something about the highway and a little bit about where the ants are. Now... What? Somebody wants to... Yes? I ask myself all the time if it makes sense for me to remember these words or these concepts.

[08:26]

Because it's just words for me, and maybe I've been here for 10 or 20 years, so far that I can somehow be or experience it. And then I think, the concept is there by itself anyway. So why should I remember the concepts that are words for the first time? What I'm asking myself the whole time, whether it's useful for me to memorize these expressions, because it may take me 10 or 20 years to actually experience them, and then probably the concept or the term just arises by itself. So I'm really wondering what this is for. I could tell you were wondering. But I could also tell you were thinking about it. And then the way you were thinking about it, you needed to turn away from it and feel it sometimes without paying attention. So I think that your idea, is it necessary, is actually, you're really thinking about it.

[09:27]

And I think it is necessary. First of all, they're very simple. It's five things. Almost anybody can remember a phone number, which is seven. It's pretty easy to remember. And if you don't remember it, it won't appear 20 years later. Because the remembering of it makes it appear. It's a process of discovery. And what you want to do is find the best map you can. I feel like a teacher in a gymnasium. Isn't this what teachers do in school?

[10:40]

This is only the third time I've ever used a chart on a wall in my life. Yeah, let me finish this a minute. And we do want to go to lunch, so we can bring some of the questions up later. You want to find the best map you can. And it is very... Distinctions you make in how you see yourself are extremely powerful. Like as I often say to you, if you... Now Freud, with a very simple distinction about 100 years ago or so, changed the Western and now Asian world to some extent.

[11:41]

He made a distinction between consciousness and unconsciousness. Unconscious behavior existed before Freud pointed it out. But pointing it out and making distinction changed everything, virtually everything. And as I said in the Sashim, the word feeling was only came into the English language in 1771. Did you know that the color blue is a recently acquired color? Our ability to distinguish blue from green is probably physiologically fairly new.

[12:57]

And that's why in a lot of languages they're the same word, like in Japanese, blue and green are the same word. And it takes out a little footnote. And Freud made a fairly simple tripartite division of the consciousness into ego, superego and it. of the psyche. And that's again a very simple thing. Three parts. So here we have five parts. But what's important is not that there's two more than Freud had. But Freud's three are organized by a parental Darwinian concept.

[14:02]

A father, mother and child fighting. The ego and superego are in a struggle which is never going to end They can never really agree And the important thing that Buddhist maps always try to do is when they make distinctions They try to make the map so all the parts work together. And each one is separate.

[15:04]

Each one is part of the whole. And this one relates to this one, and this one relates to this one, and this one relates to this one, etc. Each one relates separately to each other. So the Buddhist teaching about maps, making this kind of map, is that all the parts reunite. You unfold it and fold it back together. Now, although the map is not the territory, maps become territory. If you make a map of a place, pretty soon people, you know, when they made the first maps of of America, Lewis and Clark, what they met suddenly became railroads, cities, etc. And you know what dowsing is? Dowsing for water. Well, people can douse on maps. You can douse on a map for water or douse for a body that no one can find or something.

[16:06]

So it's not quite so simple to say the map is not the territory. Okay, so that's enough for now. And I just wanted you to get the feeling of these five because we'll talk about why consciousness is here and etc., So just as you are in no special meditation posture, let's sit for one minute. Just be still. When I was After I had lunch over here at the Rajneesh Center I took a little walk with Ulrika down this sort of neckar canal and there were quite a few people taking walks some from the seminar and some other people

[17:42]

And I had the feeling of these people were appearing and disappearing. Sometimes they were walking in our consensual reality or public reality. And sometimes individuals sort of moved a little bit into a personal, what can I say, a reality that isn't just the public's. And some people were in their practical reality, to some extent in a spiritual reality. And it was like there were these four pools of light.

[18:56]

And one foot would be in one and one foot would be in the other. And Eureka told me that swallows I always thought they slept hanging upside down. She says that swallows sleep high up in the air on air currents. That sounded great. So you didn't translate that And that made me think Zazen's a little like that You kind of, yeah, you kind of sleep on the air currents.

[20:15]

If you fold your wings in. And you can sleep that way too. Now I think I should change the topic a little bit and speak about karma. So I'd like three definitions of karma. Results of action. Results of action, yeah. Another? Yeah.

[21:20]

Cause and effect? Yeah, that's pretty much the same as results of actions. But that's a good, another one, yeah, another way of looking at it. Each way you look at it, it's a little, your way of dealing with it or processing with it is a little different. Just to think of definition of karma, I didn't listen, I'm sorry. Oh, okay, so go ahead. So what's your definition of karma? I just remembered a book which is called Karma-Cola, I once read in India. Like Coca-Cola? Yeah. In India there is no Coca-Cola, at least not 10 years ago. It was called Kampa-Cola, the brand. An Indian made fun of the hippies who wanted to discover themselves in India. He called the book Kama-Cola. An Indian wrote a book really kind of making fun of hippies who came to India and tried to find themselves.

[22:31]

So he wrote this book about this and it's called Karma Kula. So what's your definition of karma? All this stuff I'm living in the midst of. Yeah. Anyone else? Experiences that are stored in the body. Okay. And Horst, didn't you have a definition of karma earlier? At breakfast this morning. What did you say? Did you hear what he said? I can say it louder, yes.

[23:54]

In a concierge, 700 sons were killed. It was forbidden that he be deported to the chamber, also at the rebirth, at death penalty. And this is something that is probably now reversed. The Shaddam said, we live in the age of the religion and come into the age of the religion. That means that the experiences are melting together again. Excuse me. Do you want to say something in English? I don't want to say anything in English. And what did he say in the back? Something? It was a decree by the church.

[25:10]

I suppose the ritual sin would be an example of karma. At least on a conceptual level, if not in fact. I suppose the church would say it's a fact of our birth and a disinterested observer would say it's a concept which affects the culture and individuals in which it's given. Okay. Thank you for your definitions. I don't know if putting something up on a piece of paper is useful, but I'll try it again. I'd like to know later at the end of the seminar if it's been useful to you. This is very simple.

[26:12]

This is a dynamic list. Mine is just a list here. Now, I think what Horst brought up partly is that karma is linked for the Christians who were threatened by it or prohibited it with the idea of reincarnation. In the sense of reincarnation of karma as being previous and successive lives, I'm not speaking about at all. No, I am talking about karma as how our experience is stored and established.

[27:14]

So first is that it's S-T-O-R-E-D, is that right? Stored. It's stored. In other words, your experience is stored in you somewhere. The clue is where. And third is how it's experienced. And four is how it's matured. And Five is how it's accessed.

[28:39]

Now, Ulrike, could you say at lunchtime, I asked Ulrike, from what skanda do you translate? Could you give us your answer? It is not so easy to answer, because several skandhas work simultaneously, mainly from the second skanda, from the feeling skanda, and very little from the third, because in the moment when thoughts and a cognitive process begin, then I cannot translate. But the fourth skanda is also important, where associations come in. And many things, as Roger has already mentioned, are larger than the words in which you can put them. In this respect, at the same time, there must always be an associative process on an emotional level, so that I do not always translate directly, but rather from the picture.

[29:46]

And that is often different in languages. and so I would say that two and four run parallel, sometimes only two or only four, and very little of the number five or two, and I would say that the number one works in such a way that I receive something. Is it related to action? With action? Translate it. To look at the formation of karma? Is the formation of karma connected with conduct in these points? Oh, sure. Yeah, you can influence it. You can influence your karma. In contrast to the idea in Christianity where it's connected with mercy. Yeah. And you're not a passive recipient of your experience.

[30:54]

You're an active recipient of your experience. Even if you're passive, you're active. Now, I don't know exactly what Ulrike said. I assume that you said something similar to what you said outside there. But the reason I asked her the question is that I'm interested in how these things exist in our actual experience already? In other words, if this is a good and useful map, it's probably already functioning in us even though you haven't studied it. And it probably functions in instances in which a fairly complex event is going on.

[32:08]

Translating is a fairly complex event. Like writing a poem or something like that is a pretty complex event. So my guess is, and also coming from what she said, is that if you try to translate from the perception skanda, it would be unbearably slow. You'd be thinking, well, what's this word, what's the meaning of that word, and you couldn't do it. In fact, most people I've translated with, who've translated fluently, don't know what I've said after they've translated it. They don't know what I said afterwards.

[33:22]

It's not gone through the perceptual skanda. If it went through this skanda, they'd know what I said. So it has to go through the feeling skanda. to get a general sense of the concepts or views or basic pictures that are being presented in the language. And it has to go, I'm sure, through the association or impulse skanda. Because you have to draw on associations. So that shows that you can join these two skandhas and leave this one out in effect. Then what I would think is happening is it's not going this way and then out.

[34:26]

It's going this way. I think so. Okay. Now, what is the advantage to Ulrike to study this and notice how she translates? If she makes it too conscious, then it will interfere with the process. But if she can get a sense that she's translating, that this isn't happening, that this is happening she actually has a physical sensation of this skanda which doesn't include this skanda So then she can also notice this skanda

[35:50]

and so when she translates the more clear she becomes about this at present she's letting the demands of translation force her into the skanda for example say that she's translating and she's thinking a little too much I could then come up with a very complex idea that she can't think about that forces her to translate it from another standard. By giving her a sentence or idea that she can't handle here it pushes her into this one. Now, I'm not saying I'm doing that to her. It's showing that you can kick people, push people into other skandhas.

[37:29]

Now, again, what an analyst is trying to do by getting you to lie down on the couch and free associates, etc., is trying to get you into the feeling skandhas. So analysts are basically using meditative techniques to try to get you to come fish around in here. Now, as she As she becomes more aware of this process, she doesn't have to be kicked into it or pushed into it by the process of translating. She can have the feeling of this and start right out locating her sense of location here and start translating. Or create a sense of location that includes these two and excludes this.

[38:36]

Basically you can do that in satsang, in meditation. So in other words, if she studied how she translates, She could actually learn something from that and bring that into her meditation. Like, if you, Ludgard is a potter. If you studied what state of mind allows you to throw your best pots, the physical posture or your breath or how you walked up to the wheel if you studied all those things you could bring that very experience back to Sazen and use that experience to talk yourself To put yourself on the wheel Then you could bring that experience back to your potty And if you're a student, for instance, as I said to your daughter

[40:13]

You're studying for an exam, for instance. You can study in a particular skanda. And remember the associations that go with that state of mind you were in while you were studying. Even the room or odor or something like that. And recreate that while you're taking the exam. and the information that you studied will come back much more vividly. So, anyway, this has practical application. Yes, there is a psychological examination that the waiters can remember the costs for a long time. As soon as it is paid, it is gone. There's been a psychological study done that waitress, once people have paid, can't remember what they paid.

[41:38]

And he feels it's the same with students. Once they've passed their exams, they've got everything. And he thinks maybe it's because they did it from the feeling scandal and maybe it didn't go through the other scandal, so it's gone afterwards. Yeah. Now, I have a practice of following in various ways my consciousness and awareness in sleeping. And this is a little slightly embarrassing story to tell, but I'll tell it. So one of the things I've noticed, which I'm still trying to puzzle out exactly how it happens, and I just did it in the other room there, is I lay down on the floor for a few minutes.

[42:47]

Five or ten minutes. And there's a certain physical sensation that I know how to create, which makes me feel completely rested or quite rested. And it takes me one or two minutes to do it, or ten minutes, or something, depends on the situation. And it may be connected with sleeping, and it may not be. But when I lie on my, this is the part, you're not supposed to talk about your body, but anyway, when I lie on my back, particularly if I have a cold, I sometimes snore. Anyway, and it can be quite loud and drive people out of the room. What's interesting is I can lie there and hear people coming in and out of the room and I can examine a topic like while I was lying there just now I was examining the topic of karma and turning it around

[44:17]

And I was hearing the birds and hearing people come in and out of the room. But I couldn't hear myself snore. But I could hear it sometimes. So it's interesting, I was concentrating, I'd hear it sometimes, so now I know... But even when I concentrated, I couldn't hear it all the time. And Ulrike came in and said, you know, you're probably, even in the lobby out here, the bathroom's there, you know, probably can hear it. So I said, geez, I was only hearing it every, you know, few minutes, and then it was happening all the time.

[45:29]

I find this extremely interesting. And I don't exactly know what's going on and how it works.

[45:34]

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