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Zen Interdependence: Beyond the Self
AI Suggested Keywords:
Practice-Period_Talks
The talk explores the concept of "dharmasphere" and the experiential understanding of interdependence from a Zen perspective. It emphasizes the importance of transcending self-referential perceptions, advocating for an experiential approach to understanding inter-emergence, as articulated in Dogen's teachings. The discussion extends to the practical application of these concepts in a Zen practice setting, described metaphorically as a "Zenist camp," and offers a detailed analysis of the practices of "step-by-step enlightenment" and "all-at-once enlightenment." These practices are aligned with the notion of cultivating an awareness that encompasses both physical and non-conceptual elements of existence.
Referenced Works and Concepts:
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Dogen's Teachings: The talk frequently returns to the teachings of Dogen, focusing on his assertion about the delusion of conveying the self to the myriad things versus allowing them to emerge to cultivate and authenticate the self. This is central to understanding interdependence as an experiential reality.
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Bodhi: The term "Bodhi" is defined here as non-conceptual knowledge leading to enlightenment, which is pivotal for Zen practice.
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Bodhisattva: Referencing the role of a bodhisattva as one who understands the cause of enlightenment, emphasizing non-conceptual, actionable knowledge.
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Concepts of Suchness and Mindness: Discussed as expressions of the interconnected nature of reality and the experiential sameness found in Zen practice.
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Zen Practice Settings ("Zenist camp"): The analogy of a "Zenist camp" is used to describe the establishment of a practice environment that supports these concepts, likening it to a training camp for both beginners and experts.
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Orioke Meals: These meals are discussed as practical applications of Zen concepts, embodying the awareness and acknowledgment of interdependence through ritualized practice.
Overall, the talk provides a nuanced exploration of interdependence and interconnected awareness, challenging practitioners to transcend dualistic perceptions through Zen practice.
AI Suggested Title: Zen Interdependence: Beyond the Self
Please excuse me for being so late getting started. But for all the centuries I've been lecturing, it's usually after four, about four we start. And I guess, but then, you know, around 10 to 3 I come out of my trance and, oh my gosh, the lifters are going to happen. Then I think, well, I guess it's okay because you guys get an exercise period instead. But this is a tennis camp, if not a tennis camp. Yeah. Oh, is that Mark and Ann back there? Are you awake? So far, okay.
[01:23]
Well, I'll try to keep you awake. And Leo was supposed to pick you up, not take you on a tour of Switzerland. Okay. Anyway, you made it. That's good. Yeah, so... I'm still trying to find ways to re-present the experience of a dharmasphere. The experience of the boundarylessness of inter-emergence.
[02:39]
In other words, if what we're talking about in Buddhism is fundamentally a worldview of interdependence, How do we directly experience that interdependence? And all the words I use, inter-independence and inter-emergence, Okay. If we have Dogen's memorable statement. It's one of several that I keep coming back to, which we should bodily memorize, to cultivate and authenticate the 10,000 things
[03:41]
by conveying the self to them, is delusion. So, there's the first half of the statement. Now, if you want to enter a dharmasphere, you have to notice that that's not a dharmasphere. And to notice that it's not a Dharma sphere, you have to notice when you are located in that experience. When the 10,000 things appear, and as you know, we have to begin the articulation of the world as appearance.
[05:01]
As a flow of appearances. And then to notice that we articulate them, cultivate them, authenticate them, by conveying the self to them. If we convey the self to them, we cultivate ourselves through entities. And we authenticate the world through our self-referencing. And we fence the world in behind the fence of self.
[06:19]
Mm-hmm. Home, home on the range. No, you don't have to... The range means, you know, your farm, your ranch, your self-ranch. Dein Selbsthof. So, if you start noticing you do that... That noticing can be a trigger. A wisdom trigger. Yeah. Okay. So the second part is to cultivate and... and authenticate the self by letting the 10,000 things come forward.
[07:42]
and cultivate and authenticate the self is enlightenment. By letting the 10,000 things come forward and we could also say to let allness, the feel of allness, not oneness, the feel of allness come forward Come forward and cultivate and authenticate the self. Is enlightenment. Okay. Or we could say a dharmasphere. You know, we're hitting the Han out here.
[08:58]
And the neighbors are now getting somewhat used to, even at 8 or 9 o'clock at night, hearing this wooden board. And the beautiful sound of the densher. We're, in a way, creating a little Dharma sphere here. In the middle of these, it's just, we're just a curiosity, but we're still in the middle of these little village chapels everywhere. Lifting out of the earth up towards heaven. And I suppose they're mostly for memorial services. Only the church in Harishri?
[10:11]
So people don't go to them to do a... But they are creating the sphere of Christianity in every village. But we're not trying to change that or anything. But we are trying to create here some kind of Dharma sphere for our practice. Okay. Now, I spoke to you last time, quite a while ago now, about these four practices. Step-by-step practice. And step by step enlightenment.
[11:30]
And all at once practice. And all at once enlightenment. And what... These are not so easy to practice. Or discover your own practice in these four categories. To discover and articulate your practice in these four categories. And where the tennis camp came from or Zenist camp came from is Zen practice centers We're conceived of as places to practice these four. And what's interesting to me is that these tennis players, even if you're number one in the world, you still have a coach.
[12:33]
And you still go to a tennis camp. And Zen at the level of all at once practice, you need a kind of Zenist camp. Where these rites of practice can be developed together. So, I mean, that's at least part of my, you know, at the center of my conception of what we're trying to establish here. Once or twice I've said to Otmar, are you worried that the neighbors are going to think funny? We're out here banging drums and hitting wooden boards.
[13:58]
And he says it's no worse than the sound of the chainsaws from our neighbors. Yeah, better than. Okay. Okay, so I'm trying to discover a way to speak about inseparableness. An inseparableness you can't picture. You can't experience. I mean, you can experience it, but you can't re-depict it.
[15:07]
Yeah, so in this example of Dogen's to convey the self to the myriad things or to let the myriad things come forward and cultivate and authenticate the self. As Zen practitioners, let's take this as not just metaphorical, but experienceable. Lasst uns das als Zen-Praktizierende nicht nur metaphorisch verstehen, sondern als erfahrbar. So what is the experience of, the touch of the 10,000 things coming forward? Also was ist die Erfahrung? Was ist dieses Gefühl dafür, wenn die 10,000 Dinge hervortreten?
[16:08]
It's a kind of caress. Das ist eine Art sanftes Streicheln. The word caress I found quite interesting. I looked it up. Where does caress come from? And in English it really means it comes from deer. Like you have your child and you're so dear and you caress the head. And in English, the word caress comes from the word dear, so something of love, like when you hold your child and gently stroke his head. So it's like the 10,000 things come forward and say, you're such a dear guy, you're so sweet. It's like when the 10,000 things come forward and gently stroke your face and say, you're such a sweet guy, and... And that would be being in a dear Dharma sphere. To feel the 10,000 things like a breeze caressing you in the spring.
[17:09]
But that's not something you can depict, you can draw. Depict is to draw. But we can't also depict physicalness. You know, I can feel the physicalness of each of you. But the physicalness is not an entity. It's nothing I can grab. It's... But this physicality is not tangible, it's not an entity. The bodily-ness I can feel.
[18:13]
I'm sorry. It's bad in English and it's worse in German. The bodily-ness I can feel. In Hungarian it's easy though, right? In Hungarian it would be quite easy now. Hungary's got us being in, it makes incredible pastries. Yeah, so, so bodiless, bodiness. Bodiness. Okay. No, um, leib, leiblichkeit. Bodiliness. Well, maybe we could have bodiness, like Bodi and Leibniz. Yeah, bodhi means the non-conceptual knowledge of the cause of awakening. Bodhi means the non-conceptual knowledge for the cause of awakening.
[19:21]
Bodhisattva is someone who knows the cause of enlightenment. But it's not a conceptual knowing, it's a non-conceptual knowing. But an actionable knowing. In other words, it's a knowing in which you can take actions, but not a knowing in which you can conceptually grasp. So how do we, and we have these words, sameness, suchness, openness in Buddhism. Suchness, what else? Openness. Are all ways of expressing that attitude and experience characteristic of the dharmasphere.
[20:41]
So in our zenith camp here I'm trying to find ways to get us to inhabit together for these months a dharmasphere. Another entry can be the awareness that's awakened by the appearance of the spine breath. So I've been suggesting that you notice the spine awakening in Zaza. And you notice the lower spine and middle spine and upper spine and so forth, each awakening in its own way.
[21:52]
And it appears in that awakening. And appearing in that awakening is also the appearance of the awareness in which it awakens. And breath is similar. We don't notice breath so much in our daily activity. But if you do zazen immediately you're aware of your breath easily can be. And you want to emphasize the awareness of the breath not in consciousness but in a kind of non-conceptual awareness.
[23:08]
And if you develop the awareness skill of the spine and the breath, So that it includes the whole body, it includes the mind too, but not exactly usual consciousness. Now, I could say that this awakened consciousness the awakened awareness of the spine breath establishes a dharmasphere.
[24:22]
And it's while you can practice it and get the knowing feel of it in zazen, You can also bring it into, for example, your orioke meals here. We're not speaking. We're locating ourselves in the interdependent activity of the orioke. And you can bring into the activity of the oryoki the dharmasphere of breath-spine awareness. It may be hard to say, but it's easy to do.
[25:37]
When you sit in our eating room, You just bring, awaken this Dharma's spine awareness. And open your Oryoki along this Dharma sphere spine line. And you're spreading out the Uriyuki on either side of this Dharma sphere spine line. So this is something you can... get a feel of, and then in our zenith camp here keep finding ways to bring it into everything you do.
[26:57]
And then you may get so that you have more of a feeling of sameness. You know, often when you're studying Buddhism, they talk about the experience of sameness. We could also say the experience of mind-ness. Which might be a better way of looking at a better term than mindfulness. Mindness would mean on everything that you notice, mind appears as well as the stick that was Suzuki Roshi's here.
[28:01]
So if I raise this stick, I raise mind. And the adept practitioner feels the mind as well as the stick. So the spine appears, the breath appears, the stick appears. Like that, yeah. So mindness would be a way of saying sameness. Because if I look at Nicole V. here. V. [...]
[29:16]
you each appear in mindness. So if I experience the differentiation of each of you, and I definitely experience the differentiation, you're rather different. But I also experience the sameness of mindness. And if I experience the mindness that arises in my senses noticing you, Und wenn ich diese Geistheit, Mindheit, Mindness in meinen Sinnen, die euch bemerken, erfahre, I'm more likely also to be aware of, feel your mindness.
[30:27]
Dann ist es auch wahrscheinlicher, dass ich mir eure Geistheit gewahr werde und sie spüre. And not only will I more likely feel your mindness, my mindness can call forth your mindness. Like when Atmar ordained Jonas the day before yesterday. His mindness and his bodiness was the field of the ceremony. And the shared mindness of the ceremony Atmar and Jonas was the field, the developing field within the ceremony.
[31:41]
And this becomes a dharmasphere where he is actually ordained. It's this dharmasphere which ordains him, not the passing of the putting on of the koromo. And as Atmar said, one of the things that's said about ordination is that the whole earth trembles when someone is ordained. And maybe a better translation would be the whole earth quavers. Yeah. Tremble is to shiver with fear. Quaver is to dance together. I don't know what word to use.
[33:02]
Who knows? Tremble is nice, but it's a little bit like the whole world is afraid. No, they're not afraid. The whole world is dancing with you. This is a way of saying that the 10,000 things come forward and dance with you. What is this dance? Can we learn this dance together? Trance dance. Sounds like drugs. I had to give a lecture in a seminar, a conference called Trans Dance.
[34:03]
I think here in Totmos. So now we have the Trans Dance Zenist Camp. Yeah, I mean, I'm throwing all these words around because there aren't really words for what I'm talking about. Ich schmeiße hier mit all diesen Worten umher, weil es nicht wirklich Worte für das gibt, worüber ich spreche. But maybe you get it that the physicalness of something is not an entity. Aber vielleicht könnt ihr verstehen, dass die Körperlichkeit von etwas keine Entität ist. So maybe we could each sort of practice noticing the physicalness, the materialness of things. And we do it anyway.
[35:05]
I mean, you walk through the door and not through the wall. And you know that walking through the wall, the physicalness would be a problem. But the physicalness of the doorway works quite well. And my saying this is to try to change your reference, change our reference point from self-referential to physicalness or sameness. Und der Grund, warum ich das sage, ist, damit ich unseren Bezugspunkt verlagere von dem Selbstbezug hin zur Körperlichkeit. You know, there's obviously electricity in this building. Es gibt ja ganz offensichtlich Elektrizität in diesem Gebäude.
[36:05]
We reorganized it a bit so the lamps are lit and so forth. Wir haben das ein bisschen angeordnet, dass die Lampen beleuchtet werden können. And maybe over in Hudson House there's a toaster. I don't know, is there a toaster over there? No. Oh, there ought to be. Yes. And vielleicht gibt es im Hotzenhaus zum Beispiel einen Toaster. Also gibt es zwar nicht, aber sollte es geben. Now, the electricity in a toaster. Die Elektrizität in einem Toaster. He's probably very proud of being toaster electricity. Er ist wahrscheinlich ganz stolz darauf, dass es die Toaster-Elektrizität ist. He thinks, I'm going to toast your bread and I won't burn it. You sweet, dear thing. Er denkt sich, ich werde dein Brot toasten und ich werde es nicht verbrennen. Du liebes Ding. And then the electricity in the energy saving bulb. And it says, I'm so glad I'm saving energy so you have enough electricity, toaster electricity, to not burn the toast.
[37:07]
And I'm proud to be electricity saving electricity. Energy saving electricity. Now the energy saving electricity in the bulb we can say, is functionally, instrumentally different than the electricity in the toaster. Wir können jetzt sagen, dass die energiesparende Elektrizität in der Lampe funktionell anders ist als die Elektrizität im Toaster. But they both know their electricity. Aber beide wissen, dass sie Elektrizität sind. Oh, now I'm toaster electricity. I was energy-saving electricity, but now I'm toaster electricity. Jetzt bin ich toaster Elektrizität. Ich war energiesparende Elektrizität, aber jetzt bin ich toaster Elektrizität.
[38:09]
That's something like the experience of suchness. or thusness. The experience of inter-emergence. The energy, the electricity, the energy, shall we say, energy of interdependence Die Elektrizität oder sollen wir Energie, die Energie der Interdependenz. Die fließt durch alles und es sieht nur so aus, als ob das für einen Moment Entitäten sind. Das sieht nur für einen Moment aus, als ob das Toaster-Elektrizität ist. Und dann ist das Sendolicht-Elektrizität. Stop separating things into entities.
[39:11]
You find yourself in a world that's touching you all the time. Where the exterior is an experience of interiority. Where the 10,000 things are caressing you. Thank you very much.
[39:33]
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