phenomenal reality of each person. I'm always somewhat ashamed even to be speaking about you know, matters that came into our lives as if I knew what I was talking about. But we're sharing some engagement about what this life is about. And so I should participate in this engagement. And there's some things I feel that I'd like to find a way to speak about.

[01:20]

But I have to find my direction, find my way into it. And find my way with you. And I'm glad you left. You know, one of the things it says in One of many lists of important things to bring attention to in practice. And one is to, and I mentioned this last year, I believe, And at least it's in my notes about what I might speak about.

[02:30]

But I don't remember if I ever did speak about it. But in the context of today's assumption, which wasn't true when I was young, that body and mind are related and even But for Buddhism, body and mind is a relationship. And we can experience and develop the relationship. And of course, there's various ways to develop it, but Buddhism and Zen in particular is one way to develop it.

[03:41]

Okay, so one of the... Number ten in this list. I don't even remember what the first nine are. Number ten is to develop knowledge about and insight into the body and the differences between the body and the mind. Because it's a very... The differences are quite... But you have this big round face and what passes over?

[04:43]

It's a thrilling question. It's a thrilling question. I started out with a good knowledge here. Okay. So, to develop knowledge about an insight into the body and into the difference between the body and the mind. Now this is assumed that this is something that takes experiential time. Almost everything in Buddhism is a statement, is an activity and not a statement.

[05:59]

I feel like a flower. I'm changing the topic. You know, Nan Chuang is one of the most famous Zen masters. And he lived at the end of the first latter half of the 8th century and the beginning of the 9th century in China. Yes, and he lived. In the middle of the 8th century, he went to the end of the 9th century in China. He lived 87 years. By the way, it's been a month now and Charlie has not reappeared.

[07:17]

I'm sorry. I'm joking, but it's true. What is the self when it misses a cat? He's such a freaky. She was such a sweet cat. Anyway, so Nanchuan studied Buddhism for a long time. And then he practiced with Matsu, probably the most famous Zen master of all. Then he went and lived in a hut for 30 years by himself in the mountains. And then local people talked to him about coming down from the mountain and And his most famous disciple was Zhaozhou, and Zhaozhou is famous for the dog like Buddha nature, dog's cat.

[08:35]

And so Jojo, He doesn't want to talk, but I'd like to talk. Where is the self when you don't like being bumped? It's quite good. Okay. We just discovered the self. Okay, so anyway, and Zhou Shu didn't even start teaching until he was 80.

[09:54]

And He lived to 120. He was the oldest living Zen master we knew anything about. So I'm only 71. You know, this gives me hope. I still have a career in front of me. Okay, so. Joshua asked, Jojo asked, you know, to repeat it to me.

[10:56]

Jojo, [...] Jo Not Buddha, not things. Now, again, this is an activity. It's a mantra-like activity. It's not a statement. It's meant to induce a state of mind. In this case, it's meant to take away any reference point. Okay, so I said to you, it was not about consciousness.

[12:09]

Consciousness and seeing mind is a liquid in which you're immersed. Now, this would be something that Both Nanshwan and Xiaozhou have fully developed. And this is not a contradiction to say not mind, not Buddha, not things. But rather to take away all... or take away any reference point. So in other words, you're using the words, because they are words, words with powerful associations, and denying them.

[13:10]

So the attention that those words gather and all the history of your study of Buddhism, etc., all your memories, associations gather, it calls them forth and then denies them. In a way we could say it starts consciousness and then makes it shift to awareness. It calls forth consciousness and denies it. So it's something that if you, you have to pick something that is at the center of your life and then take it away.

[14:48]

Then what happens when you find yourself in a no-reference-point mind? catalytic experience that I leave up to you. Das ist eine katalytische Erfahrung, die ich euch überlasse. I shouldn't say anything about it, because then I'll take it away from you. Weil ich, ich sollte darüber überhaupt nichts sagen, weil ich dann diese Erfahrung, euch diese Erfahrung beraube. I'm offering you the prescription. You can turn it into medicine. Ich gebe euch nur die Verordnung, aber ihr verbandelt es in Medizin. Maybe I'll secretly talk about it some other time and name it something else. I don't know. It's just that I'm unable to start talking about things. Yeah, and now what... the person I mentioned the other day, he was jogging, and saying to himself as he was jogging, Oh, what did he say?

[16:18]

I don't know. Mind, awareness, stillness. And what did he say? I don't know. Mind, awareness, stillness. Anyway, but he was saying something that directed his thinking. But he was jogging. Jogging tends to bring body and mind, breath and mind together. And since he can only jog once a week because of his life, he had been jogging for quite a long time. So we could say something like he directed his thinking into his body out of consciousness. In effect, it becomes, for someone like him, a study of the body in distinction to the mind.

[17:39]

Or he's gathering knowledge and insight into the body. No, he's just... No, I think I would say that, again... Krista's experience, if I understand it, which she brought up yesterday afternoon. She didn't want to talk about a subject the client brought up, is that right? And I guess you were resistant talking about it. Or at least there was some anxiety about it. But then the body produced some statement. No, that might not be exactly how you describe it, I don't know.

[18:52]

But that's often how I'm giving lectures. Now, is my consciousness giving the lecture or is my body giving the lecture? Or is some mind that's not the body giving, some mind that's neither body nor consciousness giving the lecture, or part of the lecture. So number 11 in this list is, and the adept knows how to call up a mind-made body. And I would add, and the adept knows how to call up a body-made mind.

[19:54]

Now this is related clearly to what I said earlier, that every state of mind mode of mind, has a physical component. And if you know that physical component, you sort of... There's a word I can't... Anyway, if you, in effect, bodily memorize that... Oh yeah, dharanis are mantra-like statements which refer essentially to a body-based memory.

[20:56]

So you... So you develop a repertoire of the bodily component of the embodied component and remembered embodied component of states of mind. And you can call up the mind made body. Yeah. The way I just said it, now you can understand them.

[22:05]

It's identical, the body made mind and the mind made body. Then the question is, how do you lead with your body? How do you enter each situation, each appearance, with your body first of all and your mind second of all. So for some reason I'd like to leave that for now and leave it at that point and come back to it. But it's related to what I said yesterday afternoon.

[23:07]

When you notice, for instance, that your body's decided to take a bath, your consciousness is still debating whether you'll take a bath. I think we can call intuition a kind of embodied mind now. But in general for most people intuition has to be pretty strong to push through the conceptual network of consciousness. But if you can in effect lead into each situation with the body, then all your thinking Non-thinking.

[24:26]

Dogen says, think non-thinking. So we could say this is what we meant. is that your initial thinking is a flow of thinking. It's a flow of intuition. So intuition, the sense of intuition becomes nothing special. So you need to... I don't know if it's like this, but you know how boats go along and they push water in front of them. The water, we push the water in front.

[25:32]

And I used to have the image that if you practice long enough, you get to be more like a sailboat. There's almost no weight behind the sailboat. Most people are like a big powerboat in this heat wave. Good for water skiing, of course. Well, now you have to look, when I was working on ships in the merchant league, watching dolphins, because it's pushing water forward, and dolphins, they like it. They're having fun. So it's in a way the boat of thinking is going... through your daily life.

[26:44]

And you learn to notice the intuitions of dolphins creeping up on the head of the boat. And that's part of what is meant, specifically what is meant, to develop knowledge and insight into the body. and the distinction between the body and the mind. So this flow, let's call it a flow of intuition that precedes thinking. would be having knowledge about the body and distinction to the mind.

[27:55]

Now, you know, I've been doing this so long, I mean, that I don't know what it's like to be normal anymore. I know that my beginning to notice and then developing the awareness and continuous presence of these have occurred only after I started, began to be able to notice it and kind of slowed down mind enough to notice it. But I can't believe that this kind of experience is limited to meditative experience.

[29:20]

But you do have to develop some mindfulness and trust to let these the flow of intuition precede thinking. We could even say non-thinking preceding thinking. a non-thinking, which is a kind of no or intuition. And of course, when you... develop a feel for that bodily knowing that precedes conscious knowing, the bodily knowing becomes part of the conscious knowing.

[30:24]

In effect, the conscious knowing finds itself in the context of a bodily knowing which proceeds. It doesn't mean consciousness or consciousness then becomes having the true feeling of And that does not mean that the whole consciousness now has this feeling of truth, of intuition. But it means that this flow of bodily intuition influences or is part of or in dialogue with consciousness. And this would be the

[31:25]

you know, from the point of view of Zen Adept, this is the ideal way to think. Because your thinking is always from many points of view, as well as this one, embodied thinking. So this is also the core of the a body-made mind. And if you just read that, you probably wouldn't quite know what it meant, but I think if we can create a context

[32:44]

with some detail about how we're punching, you can see what is being taught. Wenn ich das nur gelesen habe, dann wüsste ich nicht, was das bedeutet. Aber wenn wir das in einem Kontext von einem... a body-related mind, in the context of a body-made mind, sees and experiences, then he knows what is meant by it. And I think it's a somewhat familiar experience to all of us. I think I'm sure that Giorgio as an architect has to trust this mind sometimes ahead of what he thinks he might design. But the discipline for Zen is that this becomes the way you think all the time.

[33:58]

And it takes some time to develop the trust to, you know, it takes experiential time to develop the trust the trust to be in situations without really knowing what's going on, but trust Trust the situation. And this is part of what is meant by big mind in Buddhism. But mind is bigger than your consciousness through which you function now.

[34:59]

So big mind doesn't We refer to some wide spacious experience during zazen when body and mind are dropped. We call that the dharmakaya and other things. But big mind really refers to a way of functioning wider way than consciousness. Now, where does self fit into big mind? Okay. Now, I... I'm motivated by the feeling that this is just human experience.

[36:11]

And with a shift in insight, with a shift in the way you view things, this is something more. I'm such not fun with all this that I want to share it with you. I like you, so let's do it together. Yeah. But at the same time, I often have a doubt. This doesn't work for people. Don't practice. I mean, how do And I think of friends of mine who are smart people who come to me with problems and they can easily understand realism but cannot make use of it.

[37:14]

So I'd like to speak about it after the break, if you can see. I don't know. If there are strategies of the self which are necessary for psychotherapy, which are not necessarily the strategies of a practitioner, And perhaps don't have to be the strategies of the therapist. But probably have to be the strategies of the client. And then what are the strategies of

[38:25]

What are some of the strategies of the self? Dharmic strategies or Zen strategies may or may not, but probably don't fit with the client-therapist relationship. I think that might be worth exploring with you.

[39:07]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_53.19