Because I want each seminar to be a new unfolding of how we exist. Maybe that's unrealistic, but that's what amuses me and interests me, so that's what I try to do. Now, if I'm at the Crestone in practice period, I basically leave everyone alone. And I wait until they, or there's a individually, how can I put it?

[01:08]

Until there is individually generated a mutual body. I hate to sound so strange, I'm sorry. It doesn't sound strange at all. Okay, good. That's because you've been through your sadness. In Sesshin, I relate to the mutual body that is generated and the specific, the individuality of that in each person. In something like this midweek practice it's somewhere in between. And in a seminar like this Basically, I can only create a picture for you.

[02:26]

So I go much faster in a seminar because I don't have to go at the pace of your practice because I can go at the pace of the picture. Does that make sense? But I can't go forward with the picture unless you taste the practices presented in the picture. It's a little bit like you can make all kinds of combinations of letters, like I do when I mistype on my computer. And many of the strange combinations I type will never be words. Because they're simply not pronounceable. So a combination of letters only works as a word now or in the future sometime if the sound allows the letters to proceed into a...

[03:31]

So I can't present a picture to you unless you can sound it. Or taste it in your practice. So... Yesterday I didn't want to go over some of the things I've already gone over in other teachings. And I didn't want to go further in point five because I didn't think we were ready to go further. And I tried to avoid being too dense or to get what seems to me sometimes a little too far out. Randy used to say that near the end of a seminar sometimes I'd start to download.

[05:09]

The last hour I'd try to make sense of everything. Some people have said sometimes seminars seem like mountains in which there's no path, but this felt like a mountain which you were under. It's not that I know a lot. It's just that I've been doing this a long time. And I really want to share this with you. Partly because I love this inner science. And also because each situation brings out a different, all the different teaching situations that I participate in, bring out teaching in a different way.

[06:24]

And also just because it's fun to do this with you. Let me try to say something else. As I said yesterday, there are different cultures that we know now from anthropology and so forth, experience things in different categories. Some are similar, but... a lot are surprisingly different, though they look similar. And so we could say not only is it just in categories, there's an actual body-mind difference. Because what you have to really get, and it's part of contemporary Western philosophy too,

[07:29]

Und das müsst ihr einfach kapieren. Und das ist auch Teil der zeitgenössischen westlichen Philosophie. Mind and nature are essentially constructs. And we're constructing them all the time. If you really recognize their constructs, you recognize there's hundreds of possibilities. I mean... I mean, we've got China and we've got tribes in some new Guinea which nobody's ever seen before except once or something, etc. But there's a thousand times more possibilities in there. She's in a good mood today. So... And one of the possibilities is the Buddha body.

[08:45]

That's just the way it is. One of the possibilities is the Buddha body. Perhaps the Mohammed body is better, I don't know. Or some other, I don't know. This is the only one I know about. And it makes tremendous good sense to me. And it's not the Chinese, though it's related because it interplayed with the development of Chinese and Japanese culture at crucial times in the development of those cultures. The Buddha body is not the Chinese body. Und so ist der Buddha-Körper wirklich nicht der chinesische Körper. If it was, Chin-Yu would not have been dancing out in front of the monk's hall with a pail saying, Come, Bodhisattvas, come and eat.

[09:51]

Und wenn es so wäre, dann würde Chin-Yu einfach nicht vor der Mönchshalle mit dem Reißtopf umhertanzen und 30 Jahre lang singen, Come, Bodhisattvas, und esst. Okay. Okay. So what happens, let me say one other thing, is I saw a program recently on various things, but the central theme was remote viewing. Telepathy. remote viewing. You see something that's happening somewhere else? Yes. Isn't that telepathic?

[10:53]

Yeah, okay. And I was interested in the program because the people doing the research, and a number of them were acquaintances of mine, And they found this one guy who was so good at it. And identified things with an uncanny precision, hundreds, thousands, any place on the planet. That the U.S. government put, I don't know, some hundreds of millions of dollars into the research to train some scientists and some soldiers and officers in this technique. But what was most interesting about it to me is the people who got into it and discovered they could do it.

[12:00]

In most cases it destroyed their lives. They couldn't deal with a view of how the world is that's so different than the consensual view. Their marriages fell apart, their jobs fell apart, they were pushed out of the service because the other officers didn't want anything to do with them and so forth. Now, I am not speaking to you about remote viewing. But what we're talking about is at least somewhat different than the usual way of looking at things. And the degree to which is different, I don't want to make too clear to you until you find it in your own experience.

[13:25]

So you may see me dancing with the pail. Bodhisattvas come and eat. Okay, now what happens When you identify with your thinking, this is the ground of your experience. Wherever you find your continuity, this is where your experience is going to be absorbed. Does that make sense? In other words, if the rain is going to fall here, it's going to fall on the ground. And the rain is going to be absorbed into the ground.

[14:33]

If you change the field or change the rug, it's absorbed into a different place. Continuity. It's that simple. So when you begin to bring your sense of identity out of this thought stream, And when you begin to develop a mind that's more subtle, that's not addicted to only noticing thinking, or habituated to only knowing thinking, noticing thinking, because it's partly just habit, And one of the things we're trying to do in practice is to change your habits.

[15:44]

And this is also a problem for me because I really am committed to lay practice and yet some kind of monastic incubation period is necessary to change your habits. You can do it in lay life, but you have to be really deeply motivated. And then there are things like Kukai who founded the tantric school in Japan and was a contemporary of Padmasambhava. Very clearly thought that the kind of cooking the subtle body needs Certain parts of it only happen when there's a combination of what he called the mysteries of body, speech and mind.

[16:58]

And our morning services are basically based on this idea. That you should immerse yourself, even if it's kind of boring, in the words of the sutras within certain mental and physical postures like this bowing and That cooks you in a certain way. And the difficulty in doing it is that you want it to happen within your thought stream. That happens in your thought stream until completely, what are we doing this for? Nine vows, you know. Yes, and if you look at it from the thought stream, then you ask yourself what you are doing there, so new castings.

[18:03]

But the service doesn't work if it makes sense in your thought stream. And that's the danger of the chauvinism of modernization. That you want everything to make sense to us modern folks. We only know the thought stream world. The thought stream world will destroy Buddhism. If we make Buddhism a practice that only exists in thought stream terms, it will disappear within a generation or so. It's got to be grounded somewhere else. And Zazen practice is simple, but it's a complicated practice because it's sequential. We could say that Zazen practice, learning to do it for long periods of time in Sashin, is basically equivalent to the preparatory practices in other schools.

[19:35]

As you get better at it, it becomes an amalgamation of vipassana and shamatha practices. Okay. Next year, she'll be giving the lecture. And third, once it is the next step, anyway, it becomes the means of generating the Buddha body or Buddha nature. So what happens when you shift your identity out of the thought stream? when it becomes more object-based.

[21:04]

Now, I'm trying to go fairly quickly here without downloading. Okay. One of the insights of Yogacara is that our mind world is primarily intention-based. We can talk about a tree because we all agree what a tree is. That's not the tree a bird knows. and so forth. Or we can talk about ghosts, because if we all agree that it may not be sensory-based, but if we all agree, we can talk about ghosts. So primarily our mental world is based on communicative intention.

[22:07]

The great quantity of it. And every now and then we touch base with an object just to make sure the world's still there. Now, as I've repeatedly pointed out, such a mind is exhausting to maintain. It takes a tremendous amount of energy. It's not nourished by your immediate consciousness, your immediate presence, your immediate situation. So when you start to bring your consciousness, your sense of identification, your sense of continuity Into the breath, the body, and phenomena. You are immediately happier. And you're immediately happier for two reasons. One is, when your self is sight-centered, When your self is centered in this immediate phenomena, your psychological problems are simply less.

[23:53]

I mean, you still have same psychological habits and all, but they're not so egregious. Egregious means bad. And also the bliss of non-dreaming deep sleep mind begins to surface. So-called non-referential joy. It won't surface into your thought stream. But when your identity is not in your thought stream, which is a powerful tool, but holds you energetically in place, until carnival. Now, when you begin to have a consciousness or sight-centered self, sensorily and object-based, I think most of you are with me at this point.

[25:12]

Then you can begin to practice emptiness practice. For two reasons, or three reasons. One is to do emptiness practice is very scary. And now you have sufficient joy and happiness to the confidence to do emptiness practice. The energy for it. And also you can't do emptiness practice in an intention-based mind. Because an intention-based mind is delusively empty. As I said the other day, if I come in the building and look for Geralt,

[26:13]

I find Geralt not here. I have an experience of the absence of Geralt. But it depends on my knowing Geralt. I can't come in and have an experience of the absence of Geralt if Geralt is somebody I've only heard about. So emptiness makes no sense unless it's object-based, because you're withdrawing the sense of object-based consciousness toward emptiness. So only a consciousness rooted in objects and the sense world can you experience actual emptiness. I don't know if this makes sense, but this is the best example I can come up with.

[27:34]

Now, this is all dependent on a sitting practice. And the sitting practice is the deep shortcut. Now, if you shift your if your identity stream now moves, your sense of continuity now moves in the body and in phenomena and in the breath, And now we can speak about being in a sequential consciousness now because this is a different kind of consciousness than thought-based consciousness.

[28:40]

Now many of the practices implied in the sutras and in the koans become clearer because you can investigate the phenomenal world with much more detail. And you can investigate the subtle body vitality much more precisely. And you can investigate much more precisely, experience much more precisely the realm of connectedness which is mostly discovered through the breath. And you can begin to feel much more, with much more awareness, the actual field of each person as you walk or sit here or whatever.

[30:00]

Now, what happens when your field of continuity, not just stream of continuity now, but field of continuity, I like Kukai. He's so great. He says, the ordinary person is like the lotus bud not yet opened. And he says the realized person is like the full moon. Not like the open lotus bud, but like the moon, which makes it all possible. These guys are not just talking poetry, they're talking an actual possibility of how we exist. It's like different worlds are possible on this world.

[31:19]

We don't have to go to Mars. A different world is possible here. And it's not natural or something. It's our choice to generate it. We're not, I mean, our great civilizations of Asia and the West We're not the same kind of people as those folks walking around with clubs in northern Germany centuries ago. We made some choices and became the kind of people we are We are a choice The choice was made a long time ago.

[32:19]

What Buddhism says is you can take back the power of choice. What happens when the ground is different? Your experience falls on different ground. If your experience falls in your thought stream, it's falling on karma receptors. If your experience falls on this new, this dharma body, We now call it a Dharma body and not a karma body. Because your experience falls on Dharma receptors instead of karma receptors.

[33:21]

Your experience generates a different body. Eure Erfahrung bringt einen anderen Körper hervor. And you almost can't show it to anyone unless they also know it. Und ihr könnt den eigentlich niemand mehr zeigen, es sei denn, er oder sie kennt den auch. So Chin-Yu danced with the rice bucket. Und deshalb tanzte Chin-Yu mit dem Reißtopf. But I believe somewhere we all know this dance. Aber ich glaube, irgendwo kennen wir alle diesen Tanz. It's cloudy. Or the lights aren't on. But I feel we're already dancing together. Yeah, that's what I wanted to say, more or less. Yes? When the experience falls on the other ground, is it still experience?

[34:38]

Well, it's experience. Something happens to you, yes. In that sense, it's experience. You can say something, I mean, that when you begin to taste or know this body, past, present and future and time and space seem irrelevant distinctions. Doesn't mean you don't walk across the room and so forth. But... But... But the birds feel like they're here. The clouds feel like they're here. If I sound a little schmaltzy, the stars feel like they're here. Nothing seems far away.

[35:45]

Mm-hmm. Maybe we should have a break. So let's sit for about one minute. It's a process or the occasion through which we generate a dharma body which flowers through the so-called Sambhogakaya body which almost only can flower and be realized through a developed practice of still sitting.

[36:55]

Consciousness, waking, our daily life is the realm of consciousness. Our sleeping life is the realm of horizontal sleeping. Our Dharma life is most fully realized through getting used to this chosen posture of the cross-legged sitting. As horizontal posture allows sleep to happen. It's very difficult to sleep standing up unless you're totally exhausted. It is quite difficult to sleep standing up, unless you are really totally exhausted.

[38:10]

Similarly, it is very difficult to realize the Dharma body in this upright position with our crossed legs. It's case 74 of the Blue Cliff Records.

[39:16]

So let's have some questions if there are still some in the groups, but let's not postpone Beate any longer. Thank you. Yeah, but I said Beate first, yeah, because she was waiting from before. When you started with this list of these five points, you started with the major problem is to identify with the thoughts.

[40:18]

And before I came to all these points, I cling to this word, identify, what I identify. Identify, yes. And in my zazen I watched, do I really identify with my thoughts? And what does this word mean? Maybe it's interesting to see where it is coming from. Because, yes, sure, I know when I'm in my thought or my thinking mind, but I never have the feeling that my identification is there. So I try to shift from the thinking mind to my breathing, as you suggested. And when I shifted to my breathing to find there the continuity,

[41:25]

I felt it hasn't just to be in the breathing. So I couldn't really understand why the breathing. Through the breathing I get a spot in my chest, a location, where I shift to this location. But I also had the feeling it could be any location in my body where I could set my concentration to. So one of the questions was why is it necessary to have this breathing or this feeling of continuity because everywhere you can have this continuity. And then suddenly I saw where I really found a kind of identification was in this connection between my thinking and my body experience.

[42:39]

So certain, it's like an inner landscape, certain feelings, my heartbeat, when I get nervous, my breathing, but also different spots are connected to my thinking. And in this relationship, these are really me and nobody else. This is Totally me. And also in this sense suddenly it expands to the whole sendo that was also me in this sense of relationship. And then I practice with... It was something that holds and what gives me the feeling, yes, that's me. And then I practice with ilio satsis, changing the nature of mind with this feeling that it's not permanent.

[43:47]

And my feeling in the meditation board, there's not a continuity, but it's also not impermanent. It's this kind of identity's boast. So I couldn't... I didn't know why I exactly should practise with this impermanence thought. Okay. Deutsch? At least the headlines. I mean... And I came to the feeling, no, my thoughts are probably my thoughts, but the uncorrected mental state is just as good as my identity.

[45:15]

Then I removed my identity from my thoughts and tried to breathe, and then I realized that I could locate myself there or find my identity in my breathing, but I could also choose any other point in my body, so it doesn't have to be the breathing point, it could be any point in my body. And then I realized that if I have a feeling of identity somewhere, then it is an identity between this body feeling that I have and my thoughts. It is like an inner map that I can connect and which is absolutely only me. I felt at home there and that was something I would call identity. And then I came to the fifth point, to change the nature of the thoughts by saying that everything is temporary.

[46:29]

I felt that this identity that I feel there is actually both, it holds, it is not something What is temporary and at the same time it is temporary. It has both qualities in itself. But it is something that always carries on. I had the example when you ring a bell and hear the sound. This sound goes away on the one hand and at some point it is gone. And at the same time we all know the feeling that this sound never goes away. This sound is always there. The practice of investigating and noticing as you're doing is certainly... And when you start fine-tuning it and you work with a word like impermanence, if the word impermanence doesn't work, it may be that

[47:48]

Your personal definition of impermanence doesn't work. When you start fine-tuning it, you've got to really know exactly what is meant by impermanence. But I would still say that from what you, listening to you, that this unique sense of identity you said was, you couldn't say was impermanent. It's still impermanent by any definition in Buddhism. But what's interesting is your experience, which you work with, of the degree to which it does feel, say, permanent or unique or me or something, And you can, of course, locate your sense of identity, your sense of continuity, let's call it now.

[49:22]

What I suggested was in these three, and moving within these three of body, phenomena, and breath. And an emphasis on one or the other is different than an emphasis on two of them, or an emphasis on three of them, or a movement among them. And then when you shift that to also a pulse toward the outside and toward the inside, you have a more complex picture. But now knowing the vocabulary, this is something you just developed.

[50:27]

See what works for you. And it's true you can move this sense of continuity to your breath or to phenomena, etc. ? And to certain parts of the body which are more open to receiving a sense of continuity than others. For instance, the chakras are areas in the body that are more open to the experience of continuity. But you could use the impermanent pimple on your left shoulder. I mean, you could establish a sense of continuity there. And when it goes away, you move it anywhere. Okay, what else? Yes? I would like to throw in a little comment in my translation.

[51:39]

Just during this seminar, the word impermanence, you can say Vergänglichkeit in German, but I really don't like this word. Also, it sounds much better than Unbeständigkeit because it brings in the past. Whereas with non-permanent in Buddhism, I really feel we mean, that something is simply not essential, not constant. While transience is for me too much the aspect of the past. So please excuse me if it sometimes sounds a bit haughty, always this inconsistency, but I think that's what is really meant in the Buddhist sense. Now a slight difference in the logic or the use of Yogacara and Madhyamaka. In Majamaka emphasizes the logic through which you establish the impermanence of the world which is impermanent most deeply in the sense that it neither is nor is not

[52:50]

Now, the Yogacara emphasis is, okay, it's useful to use logic to establish this. But the emphasis for us as practitioners is the mind of neither is nor is not that is generated through the logic. And because each object generates a particular mind. So seeing the world as neither is nor is not, And so if I take away all mental formulations about Neil, for instance, and if I take them all away, I can say there's no Neil there, because Neil is... made of so many non-Neil elements.

[54:36]

And all mental formulations I can apply to Neil are more limited than Neil is. So conveniently, I can say Neil. But I know that there's no kneel, kneelness to kneel. Yeah, there's a little kneelism, but he seems to be recovering from that youthful habit. And I kneel before that. You're still wearing black. But I also cannot say Neil is not. So I end up with Neil, neither is nor is not.

[56:02]

But the habit of thinking that way or the immediate analysis of that generates a mind that neither is nor is not. And a mind that neither is nor is not is extremely stable because it can't increase or decrease. So the mind that neither is nor is not is an immovable mind. And is in the most fundamental way to describe the mind of equanimity. But that takes us on another track. But it's interesting, huh? It's amazing all these things are just here. And despite the problems with language, what I just did is in language.

[57:19]

I have a very important field of questions that's important for me for a long time. You mentioned those modern theories. Friends of mine call themselves constructivists. And when they describe things you talk about, it sounds not beautiful, it sounds ugly. And they say, maybe, It sounds like we can know nothing and we can do anything and construct the world. That's what they say. Yeah, how they use it. It's called nihilism. I think they deconstruct something and the other part is missed, I had the first feeling.

[58:21]

And I had already thought I could say something to do with direct awareness. But I was running all the time since years, I think, in circles, and I couldn't get really come to the center of my intuition. I don't know if I have now the right question, but I'll try. Where is the center of decision? comes it only from the will, or is there another area? What do we decide when we say we want to construct something? And is there an area that is beyond decision? Because I believe there is an area beyond, but maybe it's only romantic. I don't know. A question has been bothering me for a long time, because I have very close colleagues who call themselves constructivists, and every time they speak, it doesn't sound nice and nourishing, the way they use this theory, constructivism.

[59:41]

It sounds like everything is constructed, and that's why we can do what we want. I already had the idea that you are somehow identified with the language of thinking, that the old age is missing, and that it also has something to do with the body and with the direct perception. And I don't know if my questions really come to the fore. I try to find out Where do we decide to create something? Where is the center of this decision? What do we actually decide there? And is there also a space or a dimension to each decision? Okay. Of course, although I can say something, this is a kind of question you have to answer for yourself.

[60:58]

And what Buddhism tries to do is give you the tools and the means to answer it for yourself. Because the answer is only meaningful if you answer it for yourself. It only is functional if you answer it for yourself. But I can give you a picture of how I would look. Just what you said, not your constructivist friends. Ultimately, Buddhism only makes sense and is based on that human nature is good. Because if human nature isn't good, there's no basis on which a decision can be made.

[62:02]

But what is meant by human nature is good? It means something like water always flows downward. You can splash it upwards, but it will tend to go down. Okay, so if we use some image like that, what part of our nature is most like water? And the conclusion the theorists have come to, who worked centuries to develop these ideas and related practices, is that our pure mind is most similar to water. Our signless mind.

[63:05]

Or our original mind. Now different schools differ on whether the primordial mind and the generated empty mind are the same and so forth. I'm clear about my own experience and understanding, but we don't have to discuss that. Okay. Now, every state of mind, whatever it is, has a self-organizing, own-organizing quality. That's just the way things are. And this own-organizing quality always generates a center. And so this gives you a basis on which to make decisions.

[64:17]

If you're in touch with yourself at this kind of level. And even if you're not, we experience it as intuition or something like that, or I had no choice, I had to do it, you know. And again, you can feel the rightness of a decision because it feels complete or nourishing or something like that. Or it feels more inclusive. and the experience of non-inclusiveness, or the experience when things are not complete, when things are not in some kind of relationship to each other, is an experience of hindrance or partiality or something.

[65:31]

And as soon as an experience of hindrance or conflict, by that very fact, the mind is not clear. So a clear mind is not possible if you're in conflict. And that's why the ethics, ethos, where you live and how you take care of your life are in conflict. If you are at a deep level, don't feel moral within yourself, your mind simply won't be clear. That is something what Buddhism means by we're essentially good. Is the mind always at a tendency, like water, toward this clarity?

[66:40]

So... So the question then becomes not simply what decision do you make, but from what mind do you make the decision. So, and one can experience this right away when you start practicing, you'll find in zazen, in a concentrated zazen, you'll make different decisions about your life than you make from your usual mind. Then the question is, can you sustain these decisions made with your innermost mind in your daily life? And that is very specifically the practice of the Eightfold Path and the integration with others through the paramitas.

[67:51]

Okay. Something else? Yeah. I'm not sure what I said is useful or meaningful. Yeah. Julius. Oh, Julius? That's it. I've had certain experiences of quite limited space, but never doing zazen. And a lot of times I find when I sit that if I achieve But if the thoughts stop, still the space has the size of the thought stream.

[68:56]

I mean, there are no thoughts, but it's still that space. And I would like to know if there's a tool to open it up, because if I open it up, I'm already back into thinking about it and judging it and comparing it. Have faith in your Zazen. Zazen is always slower because it's ahead. In other words, we can have many experiences and they can be wonderful.

[69:59]

And often if you start Zazen, you'll begin to have more experiences, but they won't happen in Zazen. At least in the first couple of years. But because your zazen won't really go ahead until all of you proceeds equally. Until this experience of no boundaries begins to penetrate you very thoroughly, Zazen seems to have some intrinsic... not always, but in most people, some intrinsic self-regulating system will only open one part of you and then it will wait for the other parts to open up.

[71:03]

So it's a very grounding experience in that sense. It doesn't mean that the experiences you have when you're not in zazen are valueless. And we can understand them as tastes. But they come and go. and aren't integrated in our body and our relationship within the phenomenal world. At least that's my experience and is the reason why meditation in these three legs is emphasized so thoroughly as the three legs of all Buddhist practice.

[72:28]

Let me say that just, I don't know if this will be useful to you, but most Buddhist teachers, let's say that among enlightened Buddhist teachers, most of them are enlightened within their culture. And their enlightenment depends a lot on the implicit wisdom of their culture. And it's much more unusual and unique to be enlightened outside or free of your culture. And we can see that in Asian teachers. Some Asian teachers seem to remain Tibetan or Japanese, and some seem to be like they could belong in any society. But we Westerners have an advantage.

[73:43]

We can only be enlightened outside our culture. Because our culture doesn't support enlightenment. So sometimes we're misguided by Asian teachers because they're teaching us something that works in their culture or they have some kind of experience and it works for them but it doesn't work for us. Our realization has to be rooted in our nature in the most fundamental sense.

[74:46]

And that will be if Western Buddhism survives, the great strength of Western Buddhism and why I think it will evolve Buddhism in a way that's probably not possible in Asia at this time. Not by westernizing it or modernizing it, but evolving it. Okay. Thank you for your question. Something else? Yes. Hi. I don't know if I understood right. Two days ago you said that I practice for myself, but at the same time for others, and then it's more effective. Effective, yeah. I would like to ask you to explain this, what do you mean by that?

[75:52]

Two days ago I had the topic that I practice for myself but at the same time for others and I would like to understand it better. The vision is bigger and so the practice is deeper. And in fact, we are so interrelated that you have to be a hermit in a cave or a monk in a monastery to separate your state of mind from the society's. But generally people, you know, and it just works that way. Generally when people are practicing and they meet other people who practice, their practice may take a positive jump. And then when they meet a good teacher that they feel comfortable with, their practice may take a jump.

[77:11]

When they do a Sashin, the first few Sashins, then you can do it with dignity and finding your power, your own power. Your practice takes a jump. You go home and certain things that were a problem before aren't a problem anymore. And at the point at which you say, you just find yourself sacrificing your own practice to help other people practice. Strangely, your own practice takes a jump. Okay. At least that's my experience. Don't you think that's why I'm doing this?

[78:21]

I'm getting a jump from each one of you. You should have seen me before I started practicing with others. I was a kind of horrible mess. You should have seen me before I started practicing with others. Okay, something else? Yeah. In Tibetan Buddhism, it is... Oh, yeah. ...usual to practice for people who are dying or who are dead? In Tibetan Buddhism? Yes. Yeah? I don't know. They do this practice. Who are dying. Yeah. Or who are dead. Who are dead. We're dead, yeah. And you're asking if we do it? Yes. It's not emphasized the way it is in Tibetan Buddhism, but yes, all the... There's lots of ceremonies about that and the number of days you do this and so forth.

[79:27]

The question was whether in Zen Buddhism one practices for the dead. And Roshi says yes, but the extent is different. But it's definitely not emphasized as much and it's kind of looked upon as the way in which religion becomes too institutionalized. But to some extent we do it here at Crestone if somebody's died. But we're not too strict about it. Maybe we should become more strict. But I think my boss over there wants me to be strict about lunchtime. No, you told me earlier I'm trying to follow your instructions. Don't abandon me now. So he said two or three minutes don't make a difference, so let's sit for one minute.

[80:40]

And we can continue our discussion after lunch, starting at 2.30. And we did this to end a little early so people have more time to get home and so forth. And we just get up a little earlier so that people have enough time to go home.

[81:04]

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