There's almost no point to gather except to have a common starting point to go to dinner. Anybody want to say something? Christina, you've practiced with koans quite a bit. How was this for you? Christine, you have already worked with Korn. How was that for you? I found interesting the simultaneity of experiences of not knowing and knowing in this image.

[01:03]

While you tend to take one position. That was impressive. The dominant tradition and conception of koan practice is that it's a one-to-one kind of dialogic process. Traditionally, in the context of monastic practice, I mean, when you do hundreds of koans, there's no choice but a monastic practice.

[02:14]

But when you work on a few, it can be a lay tradition too. But just to say that I started out doing these so-called winter branches meetings with what I thought was going to be seven or eight people. And it turned out, really to my surprise, to be about 80 people which we meet There has to be a certain commitment of time and things, which we meet in two groups, primarily 40 or so each.

[03:18]

And because everyone basically is a lay person except the residents at Johannesburg. Even that 80 people can find a week or two a year to take off and not have vacations and do it, go on. I never could have predicted such benightedness. Interest. Ohne Urlaub zu nehmen und das hätte ich mir gar nicht träumen lassen, so großes Interesse daran. But I've been doing the groups as if it's a substitute for doing individual common practice.

[04:23]

Ich habe von mir aus aber diese Gruppen verstanden als ob ich eine Einzelbegegnung mache. And my experience just now, the last two nights and just now, maybe I should quit pretending it's a substitute for individual singular practice and just face it. Hey, it's now a group practice. Because effectiveness is in fact as a group practice. I don't know how far I can go. I'm fairly traditional, actually. Maybe I could just have the

[05:24]

six days or so, like a big constellation. Okay, you're, everyone understands, and you're, before a thought arises, and just spend the week, everybody wandering around the building in this way. And we didn't really focus at all on the Visñanas. But we could also for the week say, okay, your eye consciousness, your ear consciousness. And each of you are establishing ayatonic fields.

[06:47]

And each of you are establishing And we can all be moving in these fields. Okay. I'm trying out the idea with you. Next week I start. I mean, next week I start a winter branches. We'll see what I do. This is rehearsal. And if anybody complains, I'll... I blame it on you guys. They indoctrinated me. Anyway, I think I will definitely acknowledge it more often. fully as in fact it's become a group process.

[08:04]

And something happens when 40 people all do it at once that is unique. So I'll report back. It is clear that Chinese Buddhism did decide that meditation is much more powerful in a group than it is individually. So now maybe with your help I can develop koan practice as a group practice. One thing that was, I think, clear, there's no real concept of Buddha in this koan.

[09:42]

There is the concept that Fayan was enlightened when Dijan pulled the hook and said, you know, what's the purpose of pilgrimage? And Fayan's enlightenment is present throughout the koans. But we didn't constellate that. I don't know if it could have been. okay and last you know there's a kind of koan is a kind of process it is a process you're bringing into the participants lives the focus is life

[10:48]

a lot of new ingredients, that you don't know how fit together, as we saw, happened in the constellations. And at some point, the process became a kind of givenness. The situation was given a certain form. And everyone who came up and stood behind Andrea as the focus for the group. Everyone felt, I think, there was a kind of givenness to the situation.

[12:10]

So that's certainly, to discover the givenness of a koan is certainly a big step in its resolution. Well, I filled ten minutes there. Anyone want to say something for the last five or so? Yes. That's it. I find myself suddenly turning around. I just want to sort of claim that there is no constellation that doesn't have the that isn't like a koan. I mean all constellations have a koan-like quality.

[13:21]

Sometimes there is the attempt to think that you could understand the constellation. But there is always this non-knowledge word But this not knowing always occurs. And everyone already knows. Entwicklung einer Aufstellung.

[14:23]

Es gibt keine Entwicklung einer Aufstellung And the paradox has become so closed and there is no, there cannot be a development of a consolation toward a given solution to a knowable solution. I think that is part of the attraction of constellation work for a group. Christina? Thayin's enlightenment. Thayin's enlightenment, yeah. You said we could have maybe constellated fire and enlightenment.

[15:35]

I discussed whether... whether we should have constellated the hidden treasure that this hook kept talking about. Yeah, and the hidden treasure might have been Fayen's enlightenment. I think so. And if all of them said, well, no, let's not do that now, let's do that later, maybe. And in the end, the focus And somehow the place was taken, and we had no possibility anymore to present it. Well, there she is, fire and the light. But this was a question all the time.

[16:36]

Was it in here, in the not knowing? Yes, it was in the not knowing, as we use it. And under Andy's feet. And the koan says, you go where your feet go. And Andy felt very resolved and clear afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. Pilgrimage. She found herself taking small steps over time. Now when an individual does practice

[17:39]

there are often personal aspects which make it difficult for them to proceed in the koan past a certain point. I suppose there's a way to do to consolidate, for example, this koan, so that an individual finds themselves unable to move further in the koan, and it could then become a biopsychological process for the individual. Is that the case? It could be. And the second thing I wanted to say is that we have a seminar that has been held on this subject.

[19:08]

And the second thing I want to mention, this seminar is we call Buddhism and Psychotherapy. More and more it's a seminar about Buddhism and constellation work. And that's interesting to me because I enjoy using this particular tool. And because it allows us to have a therapeutic group experience. I wonder how those of us who work analytically or with Gestalt therapy, how they feel, or whatever,

[20:14]

other methods, how they feel about this and whether they find their place in this process, and what ideas those people have. So there's psychology to heal people. People come with their problems and so forth. Is there a kind of developmental psychology to endeavor so that you just develop yourself as a person through consolation or something? So maybe we're doing that in some way here with the making a more making a mix.

[21:42]

So we have two more sessions tomorrow morning and a break and a second one. What should we do? Should we do another constellation? Is there any particular thing you'd like me to explore with you? If you think of anything let me know. Okay. Anything else? This question that Christine raised, that may be interesting that we give that question some room.

[23:01]

Tomorrow. Tomorrow, OK. Yes. I want to say goodbye. I can't be here tomorrow. And I want to say thank you. This was great. Oh, good. It was nice for me to be able to look back and see you regularly. Your face is one of the barometers I paid attention to.

[23:29]

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