Well, I'm proposing, suggesting a certain way of relating to our experience. Understanding our experience. Even the experience we... don't always know about. And that comes out from the, that is the, you know, food and drink of Zen practice. Yes, I spoke about it, but I'm not sure it's in such an abbreviated form as I've spoken about it is clear.

[01:18]

So I would appreciate any questions or comments any of you have. Yes, and we could start. Nobody likes to be first usually. I have to be first, so you're now second. So we could start with her, because we've already heard her voice. So you have some feelings about how both being in a constellation and also the use of words, like your use of generosity, etc. Could you want to say something about that? Okay. So for me, among other things, apart from the exhibition itself, there are two things that are interesting.

[02:30]

One is that when you are a representative, you feel something very strongly. Emotions, feelings, body impressions. And you can just explain them. You are not driven. In real life you get angry and have to scream and can't control yourself anymore. But in the exhibition you can feel anger or sadness or something and still not somehow possessed by it. So I see that for me the two aspects which are interesting other than the constellation itself is that you can have emotions, feelings and body impressions during being a representative of somebody which you can explain, you can describe it and in real life you just angry and you flip out and you're possessed by such a thing, but in the constellation you can have it without being possessed.

[03:39]

I find that a very interesting experience. And the other thing is maybe an attempt to put this experience as a representative into the Zen practice. There are lists in Buddhism, I don't know, the six so-and-so, the five so-and-so, the four this and that, and they are just words. And from one list, one term is generosity. And I thought, generosity is easy to understand. You help people, you give them what they need. And then I hear this word, generosity. took me into meditation. I didn't say it like that, but I could explain it like that. I am the representative for generosity and sit and watch what this representative shows me during meditation.

[04:42]

And that was very interesting. It was interesting because The other one was that I tried to bring the technique of being a representative into my Zen practice. I said there are all these lists in Buddhism, so to just pick one out of those lists is generosity. And then I took this as if, I mean, I didn't tell it myself like that, but took it as if while I'm in Zazen, I am the representative of this generosity. And then look what this representative tells me. And it was surprising because it wasn't about helping people, giving people stuff. It was about how How open can you be towards another human being?

[05:45]

So these are the two aspects. No, probably some of you feel somewhat similar, but maybe some of you feel differently, or whatever. I'd like to hear whatever you'd like to say. Yesterday, I was also concerned about how easy it is to enter a family setting, or if I am a representative, to enter a role, and how clear I can distinguish what the emotions of the role are and where I am. So for me that was interesting how easy it was sort of to enter a field, to enter the field of my own constellation or to enter the field through being a representative of somebody and how clear you can see these emotions or feelings. For me it's very easy to see these

[06:47]

states or emotions and feelings I'm in but not in everyday life and how to see how to move from one field into another field and also doing this in Zen practice. Actually it's pretty similar. These are fields. In one field I'm going around like a blind person and in the other one it's so clear. And that made me think about that yesterday. Good, thanks. Yes. For me it's interesting where there's relations and overlapping with looking into the past. So in these constellations we did there are often people present which aren't anymore present.

[08:15]

And in meditation I have the feeling the orientation is more to what is happening right now. Yes. I had the personal experience at the exhibition that had to do with the fact that there are many bodies, not just one. And it was used consciously, I don't know if it was a coincidence, because it also has to do with the past, maybe it's an old practice, to place them in a row. And they used the method maybe because it was mentioned in the lecture, but maybe it is also an old practice to have these rows of men and rows of women. It's an old practice. So that relieved me and it relieved many others when this row was there.

[09:34]

And for me the phrase, I can be all that, but I don't need to. Yes. Yes. Two more things. One is that I am more and more concerned about how important it is that the guide or the guide is in a state of consciousness, of being, of openness. For me there are two things. For me one I see that how important it is that the person who leads it is in a state of awareness. So it's not a done thing, it's not something about doing but it's about letting things happen.

[10:43]

And it can better be something of a positive outcome if you just let it happen. So the letting happen is the way for making it a good experience. That's one thing. The other is a question. Since you understand Buddhism as mindology. And I'm sure that there have been many observations made and kind of collected about perception and also perception of different fields. So for me an interesting question is how this technique to work and the way Buddhism works, how they can interrelate and kind of support each other, develop each other.

[12:19]

If you want to say something about that. Well, we'll see if I can. But just for now, I'll say, of course, the three equal treasures are Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Sangha means both the vertical lineage from past to future and future to past. And Sangha means the vertical line, once from the past to the future and the future to the past. And it also means the horizontal line, the empty line of those who practice together now. So, to say something more specific in the context of constellation work and practice, let's see if I can find a way to do it.

[13:26]

Someone else? Yes. For me the surprising is, absolutely surprising, that here a field of mind is created. In the constellation work you mean, or in the building, or? Always. Always, OK. It's good. I hope so. You too. Yes? For me, I experienced this as very relieving what the importance of the role of dignity was. Exactly at the moment when dignity came in, I was able to accept all that was there, this deep fear, this ... also the knowledge, I knew in this role that I had committed suicide, so to speak, and all that could then simply remain.

[14:47]

So the moment that dignity came into my side, I could let things be, because I knew in my role I had committed suicide, and this just helped me to just let it be accepted. Yes? For me, yesterday, Maura, from today, the connection between family work and Zen in the simultaneous presence and openness for what is being shown with as little as possible of one's own story. For me, the connection or overlap maybe with Zen and Family Constellation is the openness and the awareness and to create this with the least amount sort of personal history or something like that.

[16:20]

So this morning in Zen I had back pain and I tried to concentrate mostly or strongly on Roshi sitting beside me. and then something similar happened, like I sometimes have at the beginning of the constellation work, that I was simply a form, a vessel, And then something happened. So I had this feeling I sometimes or often have in the beginning of a constellation that I'm a vessel, maybe a vessel full of warmth but nothing in it. feel, also, you know,

[17:40]

Then in the break, I saw that much more clearly in the conversation that we're interconnected and interdependent of each other. This got much clearer. And so for the subject of dead people, I'm here at the moment and I have a very good friend and she is about to be dying and she won't be living very long. And I feel she won't be dying, she will continue to live amongst us and she will be there for me. And these transitions from who's here and who's not here, who's been here and who was here, all these transitions will be much less important.

[19:11]

Yeah, thanks. Okay, anyone else? Frank. I wasn't here. But it's all right. I was here last year. I think it's astonishing what comes up in the constellation work. How much is in this room right now with each one of us and with our experiences? And in Zen and in Constellation we're trying out unusual accesses to things which are here right now.

[20:16]

And I'm surprised how little is necessary to make things experienceable. It's interesting, maybe it's not so important to what it shows, but to have the ability to have a door to have things show. Thanks. One of the yogic perceptual skills Now, as I've said occasionally recently, the conception of practice in the most authoritative commentators is to really exist in the world as it actually exists, doesn't come naturally.

[21:54]

It comes through learning how to do it. It's more analogous to becoming a physicist or a mathematician or perhaps a therapist than just being born a human being. no matter how natural and intelligent you are and so forth you can't be a physicist unless you study physics you may intuit certain things but you can't bring that intuition into physics unless you know the language of physics. In fact, I know two well-known physicists who They have intuitions which are kind of lost somewhere in themselves and only when they bring their intuitions together and then find a language for it.

[23:31]

Do the two of them meet each other? They sit and talk. Okay. Yes. Then? Once they've got their intuitions close, then they do the math. After they've been days at it, then they say, okay, now let's do the math and see if it's true. But their own intuitions to become real have to be joined to another's and then joined to the way of expressing it. I think it's clear that everything is changing.

[24:35]

Which means that everything is interdependent. And if everything is interdependent, that's the smart way to perceive things. But the way consciousness works Yeah, as I said the other day, the job of consciousness is to protect us from ticks and tigers. Yeah, and so it wants to see things as entities and not interdependent. Just knowing about interdependence doesn't help much. But to experience interdependence would be, we'd call wisdom. So you have to sort of trick yourself into it.

[26:16]

For instance, you could take the idea, I'm just suggesting it now, of separate for a moment. Separate for a moment. Yeah. So I look at you and I see you as separate, but I say to myself, only for a moment. Because actually you're related to your friend who's dying and related to all kinds of things. That's more present to you than present to me. I just see your pretty red hair and stuff like that. But if I say separate for a moment, then I feel this connectedness around you.

[27:22]

I feel this kind of mystery around you. You know, there's this theory of six degrees of separation. You're all familiar with it? The term not. It's actually been a play and a movie and so forth, but somebody says anybody with six degrees of separation can get in touch with anyone else in the world. or is connected to everyone else in the world. So Tara knew somebody who knew somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who is Grace Kelly's first lover. We'll probably never meet him and he's probably dead.

[28:37]

Okay, but to whatever extent that's true, which is to a pretty great extent, Six degrees of separation connect each of us with everybody anywhere. So, as Frank said, there's a lot in this room. And as you noticed, we are really many bodies. But how can we develop the habit of seeing many bodies, but yet only appearing as one? It's to... I don't want to get too complicated.

[29:39]

Okay, now, when Herbert, how do you pronounce it? In German it's Herbert. Herbert, okay. When Herbert did his constellation, if I might speak about it. Of course, I don't know how it... was for you, but I can say how it was for me. First, on the initial surface of it, it seems like a rather common problem. You're arguing with your fiancé about wedding preparations. This happens a lot. And you're annoyed that she continues this special breathing practice called smoking. And you feel various things. I mean, some people would say, oh, God, this is everyday life, you know.

[30:55]

And you could say, my God, this is the normal life. But I think you have the feeling that within these everyday situations the center of your life is somehow exposed. blankgestellt war. Yeah, and what do you do? It's just the ordinary circumstances and yet some configuration of ordinary circumstances makes us feel the center of our life is somehow in question. Und du hast das irgendwie gespürt, dass in diesen gewöhnlichen Situationen der Mittelpunkt deines Lebens irgendwie He said, what did he say?

[32:17]

It was in question. So, constellation therapy gives us some chance to respond to such a thing. Such a feeling. Now I'm speaking more about the conception of the person from the point of view of Buddhism. In general, it's that each person has the... the full range of human possibilities within them.

[33:23]

Of course, there's genetic dispositions and all kinds of factors or mental illness and all kinds of factors that are exceptions. So we're not trying to be idealistic here. Or politically correct. We're trying to... What conception of the human being is most likely to be powerful and fruitful? We want to see which conception of a human being is the most fruitful, the most powerful. Okay. And it's not simply that each human being has, let's say, from a terrible person to a Buddha, has all those potentials.

[34:40]

in a range from a terrible person, dangerous person to a Buddha, has all that range as potentials. Yeah, let's just take a Buddha as an ideal. Okay. Well, yes, you could say the potentials are there. But that doesn't say much. I would say that the Buddhist would view it that in our lifetime these potentials have been developed in various ways, to various degrees. And I don't know what we call these developed potentials.

[35:43]

Let's call them recognitions and wisdoms. Okay. Now, so again, going back to the concept of the person. These recognitions and wisdoms are waiting in us. Some of them may be quite developed, some of them are embryonic, etc. And they're waiting for us. And we can feel them waiting for us sometimes. I would say, Your feeling of somehow the center of your life in question is feeling also there's something waiting for you.

[37:04]

Or it falls into the same kind of thing I'm trying to talk about. Okay, now let's say these things are waiting for us. Well, let's say they're waiting in time for the space in which, the door in which they can come through. Now, what has Buddhism discovered? Buddhism has discovered from some three thousand years ago that in the yogic practices before Buddhism, that the bodily space of meditation is one of these, maybe the most available door. Perhaps we could think of it as the bodily space which brings space and time together.

[38:13]

In other words, how can we bring our human space and time together? And this, what I'm saying, is part of one's surface of what I've been thinking about for a year or so now, about how memory and the past function in us in a particular way to practice. So let's accept that these understandings or wisdoms are waiting for us. But for various reasons, family, culture, historical circumstances, we just don't... There's no surface which allows them to surface.

[39:36]

Now it's been discovered again that through meditation, which allows consciousness to recede much as it does in sleeping, becomes a space, now bringing space and time together, but the space, the human space, is a bodily space. bringing space and time together. But the human space is a bodily space. And time, the humanly time, is your accumulated experience. How do we bring that together? Okay. So zazen, again, letting go of consciousness, but staying awake, aware, allows much of this to, this which is waiting to appear.

[41:00]

But in zazen, where the consciousness comes back, Now, Constellation has discovered another kind of bodily space that allows this, what's been waiting, to surface. But it's not always the case that what's been waiting should surface. Sometimes our life just isn't ready for it. We're not psychologically ready for it.

[42:06]

Or we're not equal to it. We're not developed enough, mature enough to be equal to what we know. And I would think that one of the main skills of the constellation therapist It's not just to help set up the bodily space which allows this surfacing. But it should also know and feel what better not surface. But you also have to know and feel what shouldn't appear there. And it's better, as they say in English, if you don't go there.

[43:08]

And I read an article this morning, a little blurb in a newspaper, and I read an article in a weekly newspaper this morning. about baby crocodiles. About baby crocodiles. And baby crocodiles call to each other through the eggs You've read that too, huh? Through the eggs to let each other know, hey, now's a good time to hatch, baby. So we have an image in Zen Buddhism, pecking in and pecking out. Because chicks peck out a little bit and the mother pecks in and together they actually break the egg.

[44:14]

So the disciple apprenticeship is sometimes called pecking in and pecking out. And maybe Sangha is a bunch of crocodiles waiting to hatch. And so it's not so much they're communicating with the parent crocodile who's off doing his thing, or whatever thing, but they say, and they... And they wobble a little bit. Some wobble when they go, and then they go, okay, let's go, and they all hatch at the same time. So one of the skills of yogic practice is to know what you leave waiting.

[45:32]

In a way, almost let it come to the surface And it's just below the continuity of experience, but you don't bring it into the continuity of experience. And sometimes it surfaces for a moment, and then you reach for it, and like a leaf disappearing in the dark of a lake, you can't quite reach it. But part of the sense of this process part of the sense of this process is actually waiting for a number of these wisdoms to be ready to hatch together because they're needed otherwise it's too much for you, you're not equal to it. Yeah, and it's one of the explanations for understandings of the flat learning curve.

[46:54]

In the beginning of practice, often people have quite a lot of experiences. Whoa, this is great. Hey, and then it levels off for years. And nothing much happens. Hey, this is end practice. I'm going to try something else. Now, I'm not trying to talk any of you into sticking with it. But I am saying it is the case that many things after a while have to hatch together before you can make a next step in practice. So, it's wonderful we have a constellation practice to help us hatch. So I think that's enough.

[48:35]

I mean, too much probably and I just barely got started. Thank you very much. Thanks for translating. You're welcome. Thank you for the core product. Yeah, we usually talk about Zen rhinoceroses and elephants, but now we're going to start talking about crocodiles.

[49:06]

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