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Zen Connections: Integrating Mind and Therapy

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Seminar_Zen_and_Psychotherapy

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The talk explores the integration of Zen and psychotherapy, emphasizing a shared yogic worldview that enhances therapeutic practices. It highlights the concept of connectedness versus separation and introduces "suchness" as the dynamic field of undivided activity. The speaker discusses Dogen's view on undivided activity, positing that every moment is a starting point and advocating for a shift from viewing reality as a separate, created entity to one of interdependence and participation.

  • Dogen's Teachings: The discussion references Dogen's concept of "undivided activity" and "Zenki," suggesting that each moment represents a new beginning and that suchness involves viewing the world without separation.
  • Suzuki Roshi's Influence: The ideas of Suzuki Roshi are identified as an influence, emphasizing how Zen practice and philosophy can inform a therapeutic practice by pushing against the notion of separation and reinforcing interconnectedness.
  • Mantras and Inner Transformation: The talk describes using mantras to transform ordinary thoughts into tools for inner change, reinforcing the dynamic nature of language in Zen practice.

AI Suggested Title: Zen Connections: Integrating Mind and Therapy

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Transcript: 

Of course, the personal proximity to you once or twice a year has been very lovely for me. But that personal proximity has been based on trying to approaching a discovery shared yogic worldview. Within your professional capacity, those of you who are therapists. Yeah. And that this might get extended, this yogic worldview, if it is satisfying to you.

[01:15]

Might get... Might be satisfying to your friends and the... and with the clients you work with. And Sikhi Rishi, as I said, growing up in the in the concurrent, during his lifetime, Second Sino-Japanese War and the Second World War. And Suzuki Roshi, as I said, who in his lifetime took part in two wars, the Sino-Japanese War and then the Second World War,

[02:23]

he felt that one of the ingredients that might make things better was the yogic or Zen worldview. And knowing as a practice as well as Yeah, knowing it, and knowing, with an emphasis on knowing through practice. Yeah, so I... I took on his work, found I wanted to continue his work, practice. And that somehow has led me to be here. Yeah. So I'd like to be able to give you something or find something with you, it's more like that, that can continue our relationship, even though it seems likely I won't see you as often, at least, anymore.

[03:56]

And I would like to find something with you, how our relationship can continue, even though it seems very likely that I don't see many of you as often anymore. But my disappointment or sadness in not seeing you as much, even once a year, will be somewhat ameliorated by feeling that we still share an exploration of this yogic worldview Aber meine Enttäuschung und meine Trauer darüber, wenn ich euch nicht mehr zumindest dieses eine Mal im Jahr sehe, das wird ein bisschen besser, das wird ein bisschen aufgehübscht, wenn ich weiß, dass wir trotzdem eine gemeinsame Erforschung dieser yogischen Weltsicht miteinander teilen. And I guess I do feel I'm not so like, oh, psychology is important and it's important to bring Zazen or Zen ways of looking at the world into psychotherapeutic and psychological ways of looking at the world.

[05:08]

That's not in my emphasis. My emphasis is much more that therapists have a chance to practice this worldview in a more dynamic and extended way than the average layperson. Similar to my being here is because one of the reasons is certainly that I find it wonderful to practice, to explore this practice with you. And I hope that if this sense gets across to each of us,

[06:13]

you're going to be able to find the way to come into that with others and in whatever context you are. A simple thing like breathing, breathing, attentional breathing to each inhale and each exhale. The more it becomes simply natural, as I said yesterday or so, it's natural for me just in speaking right now.

[07:45]

I don't have to make it a practice, it just is how I speak and how thinking evolves or articulation, let's not call it thinking, articulation evolves within the pace of breathing and speaking. So I feel a little bit guilty sort of as I'm not talking about as we did earlier, our individual suffering. But I hope that having a mega picture of how we exist in this sense will be useful in many ways.

[09:18]

You mean mega or meta? Both. A larger and over scene. As in the past, I think many... of us have found useful a phrase already connected. So already connected functions within the usual assumption that we're already separated or have been separated. So the assumption that space separates us, that assumption pushes against, or pushes, gives power to already connected beings.

[10:28]

And that's something that's possible in our cultural formulations, easier than if you happen to have grown up in East Asian yoga culture. Und das ist einfacher in unseren kulturellen Formulierungen oder Grundannahmen, das ist einfacher in diesen, als wenn ihr in einer anderen Kultur aufgewachsen wärt. Because the assumption of separation becomes... The built-in, it's almost like stored energy that you haven't noticed in the assumption of separation.

[11:47]

It's almost like an inaccurate... worldview, like we're, of course we are, from one point of view, separated, from another point of view, we're connected. Und aus einer bestimmten Perspektive sind wir natürlich voneinander getrennt, aber aus einer anderen Perspektive sind wir verbunden. But by usually assuming we're separated, an energy builds up that feels we're connected but doesn't have an expression. Und indem wir normalerweise davon ausgehen, dass wir getrennt sind, staut sich eine Energie an, die

[12:55]

And energy builds up? Frustrated by not being able to express connectedness. And that frustration of not recognizing connectedness becomes a kind of power that pushes into already connected. So we're in a dynamic field of undivided activity. And that dynamic field is what is meant by suchness. Und dieses dynamische Feld ist mit dem Ausdruck Soheit gemeint. Okay. Now, so let's... So maybe a phrase could be in addition to already connected.

[14:13]

Vielleicht könnte ein Satz zusätzlich zu dem Satz bereits verbunden sein. Could be something like, I don't know what in English, maybe now, here-ness. So you silently are saying to yourself, as I may say on the act, on the, on the, energetic moment of noticing any appearance. I can draw that appearance toward me with already connected. Or I can draw that appearance toward me with now here. Or I might say to myself just here or just now or just now here-ness.

[15:17]

Oder ich könnte sagen, einfach hier oder einfach jetzt oder einfach hier sein oder so. So I'm trying to, when I do something like that, I'm trying to craft an inner mantra. Wenn ich so etwas mache, dann versuche ich ein inneres Mantra zurechtzuschneidern. A mantra is, the concept behind a mantra is how do you give transformative power to a thought? It's sort of like there's a thought and you give a chemistry to the thought which makes the thought transformative. So one of the unique dynamics of Zen schools and practice is to try to turn ordinary phrases into inner mantras.

[16:42]

And it requires a certain kind of language to uphold it. One that's quite effective from what's going on is not knowing is nearest. You know, I don't know, you know, I, before, during lunch and before in the seminar, the message I got was, don't give us anything more. She said that at lunch, but I've also got the message from others. I'm wondering what constitutes more. Yeah.

[18:21]

You know, we have in the West, in the beginning was the word, and the word was made flesh and so forth. And this is a powerful beginning. And God was the word. If one takes that as a beginning, it affects everything. And in Asia, it's more like in the beginning was the primordial sound. So I've been exploring since yesterday sounds which feel like knowing.

[19:25]

So that's why I was mumbling away with snowing. And often these words that have this quality are often S-N, knowing, snowing, smiling, owing, etc. They are the soft and hard palate and the palate bone giving us a feeling of connectedness. You know, this Aum, the Aum is really more Aum. It comes through the body, Aum. I can't do it the way you do it.

[20:56]

I have a different body. Well, that's true. So maybe German, but not Deutsch. Anyway, so again, if we probably the biggest shift is Was there a beginning, was there a starting point, one starting point, or many starting points?

[22:01]

In other words, has it always been like this? Was there a beginning, or was there no beginning? In other words, was everything always like that? Was there a beginning or was there no beginning? If you feel, and this is something we have to explore within our own experience, what do we think? Is there an out there-ness or not? Yes, there's an out there-ness in the sense that a brick here would still be a brick here tomorrow or this bell.

[23:06]

So now I'm trying to give you nothing more but summarizing or exploring what we've already talked about. I think for to really make this practice come home, you have to live in the flame of immediacy. Or in the fluidity of immediacy. It's the psychedelic immediacy which is transformative. It's where real thinking and your future most fully arises.

[24:09]

Es ist das, wo wahres Denken und deine Zukunft am vollständigsten Aufsteig entsteht. Now, if you think there's an out there-ness, you're never going to be really in a me-sy. Wenn du denkst, dass alles da draußen ist, dann wirst du niemals vollständig in der Unmittelbarkeit sein. If there's an out there-ness that was existing before you were born... And is separate from you. If we went to live on Mars, we'd have to bring a hell of a lot of the earth with us. Because we're earth creatures. Yeah. So as soon as you think it was created, you have to have a creator.

[25:28]

And as soon as you have a creator, the creator wasn't you. Now this is kind of a superficial way of looking at it, but it's the way we kind of take for granted something like that, looking at it. And the creator had to create it from elsewhere because elsewhere is a point from which, you know, et cetera. So, and if the creator's from elsewhere, then you have to have a, one possibility is you can have a relationship with that elsewhere creator. That's a very creative and can be a very creative way of viewing this which we don't understand, basically. And it can and has been very creative. But it also can be profoundly alienating.

[26:48]

You don't feel part of the out there-ness. You can feel like a victim of it. Okay, but if we just change our basic view, there was no beginning point. There was no beginning. It's always been there. Das war immer schon da. So that's what Dogen calls undivided activity. Das ist das, was Dogen unteilbare, ungeteilte Aktivität nennt. Okay, what's the fruit of viewing it? What's the cost-benefit of viewing it as undivided activity?

[27:51]

Und was ist hier die Kosten-Nutzen-Rechnung dafür, das als ungeteilte Aktivität zu betrachten? So if you're not If there's no outside, there's only in here, there's only here-ness, you don't have to have a creator. If you don't have to have a creator, then you're part of the creation. If you're part of the creation, you have a responsibility in that creation. And in Buddhism, that responsibility is expressed as wisdom and compassion. Und im Buddhismus wird diese Verantwortung zum Ausdruck gebracht durch Weisheit und Mitgefühl.

[28:58]

Because we're part of this, whatever it is. If there's no outside creator, then we're part of this creation. Weil wir Teil von dem sind, was auch immer es ist. Weil es keinen Schöpfergott gibt, sind wir einfach Teil des Schöpfens. Now if it's ongoing... If this creation is really, didn't happen, if it didn't happen just once, it's ongoing. And if it's ongoing, again, you're part of this ongoingness. Now if you feel this, if this is your now developing experience, that there was no one starting point, every moment is a starting point.

[30:38]

dass es nicht einen einzigen Anfangspunkt gab, sondern dass jeder Moment ein Anfangspunkt ist. And that's what, again, Dogen is saying in this fascicle Zenki, that every moment is a birthing. Und auch das ist etwas, was Dogen in diesem fascicle Zenki sagt, dass jeder Moment ein Gebären ist. And again, I come back to suchness. Suchness is one of the qualities of appearance. Suchness isn't just a way of looking at things. It's a way to generate a particular kind of mind and body as yourself. Maybe you can say to yourself, everywhere is a starting point. Each where, each where, everywhere, each where, starting. Um... And you can try to, now you need some tools or tricks or something like that to get into this starting point.

[32:28]

Yeah, so maybe you can feel the starting point. First of all, simplest way is on your inhale and on your exhale. Und vielleicht kannst du so einen Anfangspunkt setzen und spüren, das Einfachste ist beim Einatmen und beim Ausatmen. Und hier nochmal, hier verschmelzen wir nicht, verwechseln wir nicht. Now, you can explore the dynamic between the material durative world and the experiential durative world within your sensorium. Now we can understand suchness as a word, a target word, to enter you into the experience of interdependence.

[33:36]

Coming into appearance. So each moment is a coming into being. And that's what this basic, most conclusive, experiential concept of suchness is. was das am meisten einschließende, erfahrbare Verständnis dieses Wortes Soheit ist. If we take treeing again, wenn wir nochmal das Wort Bäume nehmen, if when you see tree, you see treeing, jedes Mal, wenn du einen Baum siehst, dann siehst du Bäume.

[34:57]

It means you just don't let language push you around. Das bedeutet, dass du einfach nicht zulässt, dass die Sprache dich herumschubst. You feel the tree treeing every time you see a tree. Du siehst den Baum, Bäumen, jedes Mal, wenn du einen Baum siehst. Nephthic requires a certain pace, a bodily pace, like you stand in front of the tree. Yeah, I mean in Creston we have lots of deer and rabbits, tons of rabbits this year. In Creston haben wir viele Rehe und ganz, ganz viele Kaninchen dieses Jahr. And it's always amazing to me, these deer and rabbits, they live without a house or refrigerator. They seem to just stand with the rabbits.

[36:02]

Und ich finde das immer erstaunlich, die Rehe und die Kaninchen, die leben ohne Haus und ohne Kühlschrank und so weiter, die stehen da immer einfach nur. And so every time I see a rabbit, I stop with the rabbit. Rabbit and I, I don't know if it's the same rabbit. It looks quite similar. But there's about 50 around, so I don't know. We stop and we kind of feel each other. And every time I see a rabbit, I stop with the rabbit. I don't know if it's the same every time. There are 50 around. But when I stop, when I see it, I stop and the rabbit too. And the first thing the rabbit says to me, he says, hmm, you're not a cat. Or you're not an owl. So the rabbit looks at me and I look at the rabbit. And I feel that with a tree. The tree looks at me and I look at the tree. And if I feel the treeing of the tree, insects and a... branches and its stillness rooted.

[37:15]

I really have to stop my thinking to feel the tree, to let the tree see me and so forth. And the tree is also, as I've said, foresting, attempting to become a forest. There's a kind of oscillation there, appearance and disappearance. A forest, not yet a forest. This is the same as alive and dead. Or alive and the not yet forest. And I feel something like that with each person I meet. There's a dynamic of there-ness and not yet-ness.

[38:31]

And I more likely feel the there-ness and the here-ness and the not yet-ness. If I feel the world is a field of starting points, and if I think the world as already created, I won't feel the world as a field of starting points. So the word suchness is practiced as a field of starting points. And as a field of starting points, It creates in me an attentional awakening, awakeness that becomes not thinking or knowledge accumulated

[39:59]

But a knowing, a Jonathan, a David knew Jonathan, you know, there's a knowing which is an engagement. That knew is really a strong word. Mm-hmm. So you know the world, the knowing world, as a field of starting points. And as I said the other seminar, if you want, you could practice generating feeling that you're a starting point. Imagine yourself as a starting point.

[41:11]

And as I said, imagine maybe that space is starting in you. So space is not Outside you, space is, you are also space and it's starting in you. And you can feel that to the tips of your fingers. And when you bring attention to the spine in this backward step of entering the spine, You're entering right now a field in which the spine is helping to define this field. And you can extend that field to the persons next to you.

[42:29]

And to all of us. And again, although it's invisible like the elephant of Samantabhadra is invisible, to the ordinary eye, the way in which the mutual beingness, our mutual beingness, our mutual breath beingness, is a fact, begins to be a reality. penitent security called it like a very gentle rain it doesn't feel like it's raining but suddenly here after a while you realize you're completely wet

[43:35]

It doesn't seem to be raining, but you find all of you are completely wet. This kind of worldview arises through the exploration of the worldview. If you imagine it's already, it's always been this way. I mean, there's... that it doesn't have one beginning, it has constant beginnings.

[44:42]

And you're in the field of those beginnings, beginner's mind. You find that Moment after moment, the modality of beingness and of mindedness is a kind of appearing and extending and contracting. Yeah, that's enough. I mean, just trying to give you a feel for looking at the world differently. and a slightly different looking at the world that you don't think it's an out-there-ness, you think it's an out-here-ness, an in-here-ness.

[45:52]

When this knowing is a knowing you practice, It evolves. And it evolves into this many lights of suchness. Now I'm a little embarrassed to have said all this. But I'm going to have to accept that I did say it. It's awful. It's not the same in there. Okay. So it's certainly time for a break. Yeah. Thank you very much. So I can feel right now I'm making a space and changing the space, which is called getting up.

[47:24]

But I do feel that this space I'm making by feeling and getting up, moving it up, is a space I share with you. I mean, I don't share the same body, but I share the same space with you. So when the koan, which I've been discussing off and on, says, that the Buddha's body is like space and responds and responds manifests in relationship to to others These are not just philosophical words about the Buddha's body.

[48:40]

They're an image, a metaphor, an image you practice. As I'm doing right now. And getting up in a space which I feel also is inseparable from everything around me and from you. When I stand up I feel And when I get up, I have the feeling that you all get up too. Or that there is getting up and not getting up.

[49:41]

And they penetrate each other.

[49:42]

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