Because we may be able to, as I said earlier, feel our way into something which is clumsily said than too well said. Sometimes translators, I'll come up with four ways to say something. Three clumsy and one pretty good. And the translator will choose the best one and only translate that. But often for me, it's the several that are more important than the one that sounds better. It doesn't mean I'm not always trying to find better ways to say things, but the process is more important than the solution.

[01:20]

Yeah, I'm trying to, right now I'm trying to work with subjective objects and objective objects. Maybe we'll come to that. So, the... One way I've been trying to approach this is to look at the words in Japanese to be interested in something.

[02:22]

Like the word to be interested in? Well, one Japanese word for to be interested in something. And another word to think about something. And to be interested in something. Even in English has some unnoticed power. Das hat selbst im Englischen eine unbemerkte Kraft. Because, for example, interest really means inter-est, to be in between being, to be in the midst of the connectedness of being. Denn Interesse hatte Zwischensein, also das Sein zwischen zwei enthalten. Est means is, inter-isness.

[03:24]

And let me, you know, I spoke about the way in which the calligrapher, an Asian yogic calligrapher, that the calligrapher's posture is reflected in the posture of the character. And recently I've been pointing out, you know, that there is also gesture in our language. You know, in Japanese you have to, in Chinese, to be a scholar... In a field you may know 20,000 to 30,000 to 40,000 kanji. The mind itself can't memorize that many. It's only possible through bodily memory. And if you look at a Japanese person or a Chinese person, you ask them a kanji, they'll go, oh yeah, that one.

[04:58]

Then the observing self can't observe the observing self. Yeah. So we need to loosen up our tightly held existence. And the most dramatic and powerful way that I think has been discovered by human beings, is the process of sitting still. To sit still for a particular length of time. That's the secret of meditation.

[06:04]

It's not meditating itself, sitting still for a particular length of time. Not for as long as you want. We don't want self involved. But for a particular length of time. Doesn't mean you can't sit as long as you want. I mean, there's no Buddhist police spying on you. Das heißt gar nicht, dass ihr nicht so lange sitzen könnt, wie ihr wollt. Es gibt keine buddhistische Polizei, die euch ausspioniert. There's a Dharma cop right outside. Da ist ein Dharma-Bulle da draußen. You do exactly what you want. That's one of the open aspects of Buddhism. There's no heresy in Buddhism. It's not possible to be heretical.

[07:07]

Any monk in any monastery, if his views are sincere, they're accepted. Here she might not be chosen to be the successor. Er oder sie wird vielleicht nicht gewählt, dass sie die Nachfolger werden. Denn es muss auch ein gegenseitiges Verstehen oder Verständnis existieren. Aber Ketzerei gibt es nicht. Und der Buddhismus hat sich entwickelt aus einer ganzen Reihe ernsthafter Sichtweisen. We had, you know, when Tsukuyoshi was first living in San Francisco. It was the 60s. And New York School of the 40s, 50s and 60s of abstract painting. And Japanese artists were starting to do abstract paintings, which were also rooted in calligraphy.

[08:11]

But no longer representing. And someone asked him, do you like abstract painting? And he said, oh, very much. And so the person said, well, why do you like it? He said, because it's a collection of sincere drops. Okay. So I think what I should say now, I should give you Suzuki Roshi's, you know, as a review. Main Zazen instruction. Which is, don't invite your thoughts to tea.

[09:33]

Good, okay. Now, if you examine this. Okay. First of all, it's easy to do. Like bringing attention to the breath, it's easy to do. And when you see something that's easy to do, it's fruitful to always to ask, why is something so easy to do so difficult to do over a long period of time? It's easy to bring attention to the breath for a short time. Difficult for a long time. In answer to that question, you discover a lot about Buddhism, because Buddhism has been about answering that question.

[10:37]

And we can... fairly easily, for a short time, not invite our thoughts to tea. Okay. Now, if you examine the statement, though, we don't invite our thoughts to tea, Wir laden unsere Gedanken nicht zum Tee ein. But we do invite the thought not to invite our thoughts to tea to tea. So laden wir aber den Gedanken ein, dass wir Gedanken nicht zum Tee einladen. So clearly... It's thought one and thought two.

[11:40]

They must not be the same kind of thoughts. Thought A prime and thought B prime. So don't be confused by the words. The words are extraordinary. And we can use them to direct attention. But most of the time we can't use them to describe what we find. What we find is more subtle than attention. More subtle than language. In fact, Bodhidharma, good old Bodhidharma, defines mind as when you bring your sense, a sense or senses, fully to something, language only goes part of the way.

[13:01]

When the senses reach beyond language, And he says that's when you experience mind. Okay, so we can call the thought not to invite our thoughts to tea. A mental formation. But we shouldn't really call it a thought in Buddhist thinking. Okay. So let's make a distinction then between intentional thought and discursive thought.

[14:01]

And scan it, or parse it, or whatever the word is, bring an intentional, have the intentional thought, have the intentional thought, Not to invite discursive thoughts to tea. Okay. Now, what have I just also done here? I brought a concept to the basic territory of practice. A metaphor or something like that. And metaphors and concepts, Nagarjuna really is strong in pointing this out, are part of the practice.

[15:09]

But not Discursive thinking. Except as part of decision making. To sort things out. Dogen describes discursive thinking as that part of the mind which helps you make the decision to practice. But that's not practice itself. Okay. So Marie-Louise has to go pick up Sophia in a few moments. So my translator is disappearing. I have my backup here. Did you see how his back went up?

[16:11]

My back up. Okay. He heard the vertical words as well as the horizontal words. Okay. So, just that. That there's an intentional thought to So we should notice that an intention brings up a different mind than discursive thinking. Which means you can have a choice to identify, find your identity in intentional thoughts or discursive thoughts. And Buddhism says, for 2,500 years, there's a better choice. Among these two, one's a better choice. No, let me just for a moment respond to what you said again.

[17:24]

It's a little bit like filling each cell with aliveness. And you get a feeling for doing that. And it's part of the whole process of weaving. Mind and body can be experienced separately. And they can be experienced together. And the way they can be experienced together can be cultivated. And that's another way of speaking about practice. Buddhism and Zen in particular is a particular way to weave mind and body together. And open the body, even in a cellular sense, to aliveness.

[18:27]

It changes your experience of time and it also, from a Taoist point of view, is one of the secrets of longevity. You make each cell filled with aliveness and it lives longer. That's one of my promises. a warranty I sound like a salesman here used body salesman okay so you have to go I'll ring the bell oh you both have to go all the moms have to go okay so thanks very much I like the vividness of this group.

[19:48]

I had a report from the Buddhist police that you didn't start at three. You were bribed? Oh, the police were bribed. No, I didn't come here, I'm not here to try to, as usual, to try to get something outside of me that's inside of me. Excuse me. I didn't try, I'm not here to try to get something that's inside of me out. This is, you know, um, uh, a fine thing, a wonderful thing for me to do, because I really just have a chance to be with you and explore some of the most serious things in our life.

[20:59]

But, you know, we're in our own lives. We're so in our own lives, even though we try to do the best to make things work and understand ourselves. Often we don't make too much progress. Yeah, I suppose because we're so rooted in our own habits. molded by our habits. And molded by and rooted in a situation that's hard to change. Now that's true for everyone. It's true for practitioners as well as, you know, as well. And practitioners, one reason practitioners practice is to, you know, using that phrase again, loosen the grip of our life on our life.

[22:47]

Mm-hmm. Our life is in the locker. Rilke has the key. He has a poem stating that we should treat our life as locked boxes. So I try to bring up some things. That might change our state of mind.

[23:50]

Or might change or create a situation that isn't how we usually expect things. Create a situation that isn't so predictable. You know, I wish I could do things like while we're sitting here, I could move the door over there. So when we all get up to leave, we'd say, wasn't the door there? Why did it get over there? Yeah, so, and that kind of befuddlement and freshness Also diese Art Verwirrung und Frischheit. Das kann passieren, wenn unser Blickpunkt sich verlagert oder verändert.

[25:03]

past the obstacles in our life, because, hey, the door is in a different place. So I thought the discussion we had before lunch was quite good, and if anybody wants to continue it, it would make me happy. And I thought the discussion we had before lunch was very good, and I hope some of you want to continue it. yeah the idea don't ask don't invite your thoughts for tea and so it came to mind why not have a tea party and look at them closely and realize that there is it's not a thought so you know watch out the thoughts are coming watch out i think it's the problem how we handle them how we be with them

[26:15]

That's not the problem, but we are the problem. In German, please. When Boshi said, we shouldn't wait for tea, then I thought, let's have a tea party and see what they think. They're not that dangerous, if you know that. Whether we like it or not, most Zazens are in fact a tea party. And eventually, that's true, it doesn't make any difference. Oh, it's a tea party today. Someone else? If there are thoughts, is there consequently a thinker?

[27:34]

No. I mean, there is a... There's a mind, a body, etc. But are the thoughts... It's really a complicated question. What do you mean by a thinker? But I think the most useful way to respond at this point Because most of us assume there's a thinker. It's more fruitful to say there's no thinker. Didn't somebody write a book recently, Thinker Without Thoughts? David Batchelor. Mark Epstein. Mark Epstein? I didn't know he was... Okay, anybody else?

[28:53]

I have the book, I haven't looked at it. I don't know whether it's here or in Colorado. Thoughts Without a Thinker. Now that's a post-Buddhist title. Wouldn't have been written when I was a kid. Yeah. I cannot keep my attention just on the breath. There are two different possibilities. Either I go into discursive thoughts or it's something like, it's hard to tell, like a kind of widening, so like more than a field or...

[30:00]

I often have a picture of a mirror where everything is inside, the breath, my breaks between in-breathing and out-breathing, my body, other people, and it's just the feeling that that this all happens and I don't have to do anything with this and it has nothing to do with me or something like this. So I can't describe it. It's more than the birth. Deutsch bitte. I always have difficulties to direct the attention to the breathing. Either I go away in thought, or it's more like when it expands. It's hard to describe.

[31:03]

Often I feel like I'm in a game in which everything is involved, or much more, the breathing, the breaks between the breaths, me, my body, the others, and also the feeling that it's just all happening, that I don't have to do anything with it and that it actually has nothing to do with me. Is this a good feeling for you or not a good feeling? So you have this good feeling. It sounds good to me, too. I wouldn't mind. And then you also have the feeling you'd can't keep your attention, have your attention stay on your breath. Why do you make a connection between the two? Well, there may be, but mainly I would say... Mostly it's two different things.

[32:34]

So we sometimes have one might, and through practice more often you have the state of mind or mode of mind similar to what you said. And I think what you're saying is that in this mode of mind you described, your experience is that it is a field of attention or attention rests in this field. It's in that sort of the case. So it's an example of attention resting in place. One of the fruits of practice is attention eventually rests wherever you put it.

[33:57]

And that's one way to give a definition of one-pointedness, so-called one-pointedness. But I'm told that one-pointedness, well, one-pointedness isn't such a good word in English. Also, dieses Einsgericht, was ist das deutsche Wort dafür? Einspitzigkeit? Also, dass Einspitzigkeit auf Englisch kein gutes Wort ist, in German it's way worse. Yeah, I know. In Berlin it came up that it's way worse. Also, in Berlin sind wir drauf gekommen, dass es noch viel schlimmer im Deutschen ist. I guess that's everybody's taught in school to concentrate and be one-pointed. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it really looks like a pointed something, rather. Yeah.

[35:20]

It's like the person who's working at a desk, you come up and talk to them, they don't even know you're talking to them. If that's one pointedness, I've never achieved it. Yeah, so we need some other way to describe it in English, especially in German. It's not only that your attention seems to rest in whatever the situation is attention itself isn't passive but attention itself is a dynamic of the situation Die Aufmerksamkeit an sich oder selbst ist eine Dynamik der Situation.

[36:36]

A Gestalt of the situation. Eine Gestalt der Situation. And a Gestalt which changes the Gestalt. Und eine Gestalt, die die Gestalt ändert. So, in the midst of, when attention is, it's very hard to find words to describe something like this. But when through practice or good luck, the situation is inseparable from attention, it is sort of like watering a garden. Suddenly the garden you're observing or in the midst of starts to grow. So it's not just like you're turning a light on a situation. It's like the light itself, if we call it that, is plant food and nourishment and sunshine and so forth. Es ist so, als ob das Licht selber Pflanzennahrung und Nahrung und so weiter darstellt.

[38:00]

So, okay. Then the bringing of attention to the breath. Dann ist das Aufmerksamkeit richten auf den Atem. Is related but different or different. but as a practice has a number of results or fruits. Can you say that somewhat differently? It's a practice which has its own results or fruits. Okay, the whole thing, but it doesn't matter. I said that the practice of bringing attention to the breath is a practice in itself which has its own fruits.

[39:04]

So basically the ingredients are And as most of you know well, because I've spoken about it often, let me just say that in this practice of mindfulness and meditation, When you loosen up the hold thinking and habits and emotions have in our life, you can see things more like a mosaic. or a Gestalt, in which you can participate in moving the parts around.

[40:14]

You have a feeling you're participating in your own life. So, again, the ingredients are you have an intention to bring attention to the breath. And in bringing attention attention to the breath, as you know, you can only do that when you shift your sense of continuity out of thinking into the body and breath.

[41:18]

So thinking becomes a tool or something you do. But it's not where you find your identity. Not where you find your life. It's not where the self functions. Now, as you know again, this is a really big change. If you can bring your sense of continuity from moment to moment, Out of your thinking. So it's not established in your thinking. But rather rests in your breath than in your body. And in phenomena. Now, the word phenomena in English means to... To shine.

[42:37]

The root of it means to shine. And we usually think of the word phenomena as just meaning all that phenomena. If you look it up in the English dictionary, it says that which is known through the senses. Wenn man es im englischen Lexikon nachschlägt, dann heißt es, das ist das, welches man mittels der Sinne kennt. And literally the etymology is to bring things into the light of the senses. Und jetzt ganz wörtlich in der Etymologie heißt es, das, was im Lichte der Sinne scheint. Erscheinungen. Yeah, that's interesting. We have the word appearances are things which shine.

[43:39]

Yeah, okay, well that's nearly the same. Appear, apparition. It can also be shine and drug. Yeah, I haven't... I just look up appearance, but appearance... Things that appear within the light of the senses is what phenomenon means. How they appear and what appears and how you relate to the appearance is another aspect of practice. Okay. Okay. So if you have the intention to bring attention to the breath, first of all, you're learning to more and more rest in intentional mind.

[45:10]

And not in discursive mind. So it's just the effort to keep, oh, can I get my attention brought to my breath, is to change the usual mind we're in into another mind. Just to bring, have the intention to bring attention to the breath. As a kind of habit that you repeat. Is to bring, is to, one fruit of that. is not just that you bring attention to the breath, is that you are bringing yourself out of discursive mind into intentional.

[46:13]

And once you're more resting in intentional mind, you can shift that intention and attention to your breath. kann man nämlich dann diese Intention und die Aufmerksamkeit auf den Atem richten. At some point it becomes possible that you don't even have to bring it back. It comes back by itself. You don't have to bring your attention back to the breath. It comes back by itself. An irgendeinem Punkt muss man nicht immer die Intention haben, die Aufmerksamkeit auf den Atem zu richten, sondern das kommt von alleine dahin. And after a while just naturally, naturally, rests in the breath. Of course, there's always a dialogue going on, a kind of dialogue. With attention shifting here and there. But the reference point, the seat of the breath, keeps returning, the seat of attention keeps returning to the breath.

[47:19]

Attention has found its home. Anything for a party? Yeah, if you want. Let's go back to... Sitting zazen. Jetzt kommen wir nochmal auf zazen, sitzen zurück. If you bring attention to, if you sit down to do zazen. Also wenn du hinsetzt, um zazen zu machen. Generally, you bring naturally attention to your posture. Are you sitting? Are you sitting up straight?

[48:25]

Can you lift up through your backbone? Can you find a posture for the legs which allows you to have your backbone pretty straight? Not so much straight, but a lifting feeling through the backbone, not through the spine and top of the head. Now, for most people on the planet, it's easier to sit what's called Seiza, like Rosemary sitting. So Japanese lack of furniture and robes and kimonos are designed around that posture. And literally, the culture made an implicit decision to design their houses and clothes around the necessity to do, basically forcing people to do this plushie.

[49:46]

And of course many people also sit cross-legged. So both are meditation postures. This cross-legged and this cross-legged I don't know. Was more adept. Right? That's all right. Please, please. I could sit full lotus instead of half lotus. So far I've only managed it for a few moments in a hot tub after 20 minutes. But I still struggle along with my profession. So you're creating a more firm foundation this way.

[51:00]

Now, the most important part of Zazen posture is your backbone, not your legs. But the legs want to give you the kind of support that you don't have to use musculature to hold yourself up. Die Beine möchten dir aber eine Unterstützung geben, dass du nicht so sehr auf Muskulatur zurückgreifen musst, um aufrecht zu sein. So that the geometry of your posture holds you up. So that the geometry of your posture holds you up. Because you want your back to be straight easily without having to pull it up all the time.

[52:31]

But one advantage of the legs too is you get confused what's left and what's right. That's good. I always give this example. If you try to aim from the outside, it's very hard to figure out which finger to move. That's the simplest example I know that we have a thought body that we feel from outside and not feel from inside. Das ist das einfachste Beispiel, das man geben kann dafür, Yes, but that we have a body that is defined by thoughts, that looks at things from the outside and not from the inside. So if I could cross my legs twice and put my toes together, that would be really a good position. But you're also folding your warmth together. Okay, so the first step, usually, aspect, let's call it, of sitting is attention is brought to the posture.

[53:51]

And attention is usually then also brought to the breath. Und dann wird üblicherweise auch Aufmerksamkeit auf den Atem gelegt. What I'm suggesting, earlier I talked about attention as a kind of conduit or wiring, circuit. Also ich habe vorher auch schon gesagt, dass ich vorschlage, dass man sich Attention or attention? Attention. But attention is also a kind of switch. Like a light switch. But you have to kind of hold the light switch down for a while. It takes a while before the light comes on. So maybe if we could hold the switch down long enough, these lights would start coming on.

[55:03]

But meditation is something like that. The beginner holds down the switch for about a year or two and not much happens. Or sometimes it makes the switch. Aber manchmal klickt es doch ein. Anyway, when you bring attention to the posture. Jedenfalls, wenn ihr Aufmerksamkeit auf den Körper legt. Let's say the breath too. Sagen wir mal auch auf den Atem. What you're doing is holding down the switch. Was ihr da macht ist, ihr haltet den Schalter runter. And you eventually switch from consciousness to awareness. Und irgendwann werdet ihr vom Bewusstsein aufs Gewahrsein umschalten. And suddenly you feel a special feeling.

[56:04]

The boundaries of the body somewhat disappear or do disappear. And, you know, if you want an easier practice, Und wenn ihr eine leichtere Praxis wollt, die man nicht unendlich erforschen kann, aber sie ist leichter, geht in die Badewanne und wascht eure Füße im Dunkeln. Wenn ihr im Dunkeln seid oder die Augen zumacht und dabei euch die Füße wascht, dann waschen eure Hände eure Füße. First of all, your feet are no longer down there. They're right in front of you. So your sense of location of being up here and the feet are down there kind of disappears. And the subject of the hand touching the object of the foot

[57:11]

Das Subjekt der Hände berührt das Objekt der Füße. Can shift and suddenly the subject of the foot is touching the object of the hand. Das kann wechseln, dann kann nämlich plötzlich das Subjekt der Füße das Objekt Hände berühren. And subject and object can conflate or disappear. Subjekt und Objekt kann sich conflate this way or that way. Conflate means to merge. You're subject to conflict and you inflate. All the water splashes out of the tub? This is not Kate. What? Maybe. Okay. So, In that experience, you know, if you just let yourself into it in the warm water, up and down, right and left can all disappear.

[58:25]

And there's still a kind of dialogue between what's subject and what's object and what's observing, etc., But that dialogue is sort of in the background. And there's some kind of spacious aliveness. that isn't the shape of the body. And we could call it an experience of emptiness. There's no reference point. And there's just a sort of field of aliveness when subject and object conflate. And although one can be conscious or observing in the midst of it, it's more what I would call awareness.

[59:49]

And it's a more fundamental state of being than consciousness. And through practice, this fundamental state of being becomes more and more present and underlying and surrounding consciousness. But since the Zendo isn't big enough for 20 or 30 bathtubs, And probably we couldn't afford to keep all the water warm. We just have cushions and people can sit. But you can imagine yourself in a warm bathtub washing your feet while you're doing Sazen.

[61:10]

So you hold this switch of attention to breath and body and posture. And there's sometimes a shift into awareness from consciousness. And now attention can be brought into this awareness without disturbing it. And the way attention can observe consciousness and explore it, now attention can observe with an awareness and explore it, Because this awareness is rooted in mind and not in attention.

[62:28]

This awareness is rooted in mind and not in attention. This awareness... In mind, not in attention. And consciousness can also be rooted in mind and not in attention. And so you can bring attention to either, like two different rooms. Now, when the beginner is practicing, and you have this sense of awareness or samadhi, and you bring attention to it, it immediately turns into consciousness. Because in that case, this awareness is rooted in, is not rooted in mind, is rather precariously come to.

[63:47]

precariously? So now if you have this, now we've gone a step beyond what Freud did. Because instead of bringing the contents of unconsciousness, he would say, but I would say non-consciousness and unconsciousness, Into consciousness. We now have developed attention and can go directly into non-consciousness and unconsciousness. haben wir jetzt die Aufmerksamkeit so entwickelt, dass sie direkt in das Unbewusste oder Nichtbewusste hineingeht.

[64:53]

The problem with bringing things from non-consciousness into consciousness is usually like bringing a fish out of the sea. You put it on the beach and it flops around a little bit and dies. And if you pull a dream out of dream time and put it on the beach of consciousness, it's there for a little while, but pretty soon it dries up and goes away. So these yogis of India and China, Japan, discovered ways to study non-consciousness and unconsciousness by separating attention from consciousness, rooting attention in the body,

[65:59]

and using that embodied attention to explore the mind of, let's say, simply dreaming, While you're in the awakefulness of zazen, but not the wakefulness of consciousness. So you can see the formation of dreams, green images and so forth. So you can be in the midst of the formation. Formation you mean the actual happening of the form. So that you can be in the midst of the formation of these dreams and the development of this yogic skill to be present in awareness in contrast to consciousness.

[67:26]

Also makes it much more likely that most of your dreaming will be lucid dreaming. You'll be present in the midst of your dreaming as a commonplace thing. So, knowing yourself now doesn't mean knowing yourself consciously. Or knowing yourself by bringing things into consciousness. But rather having an observing mind and not an observing self. A fourth mind. Now we're born with, you know, non-dreaming deep sleep, dreaming and waking. And now you can develop through practice a fourth mind which to various degrees can integrate the other three and integrate the other three and study the other three

[68:51]

Including studying the fourth mind itself. The newly generated fourth mind itself. That actually exists in us to various degrees. but is rather ephemeral and only occasionally noticed. Well, that was a little bit of a riff there, wasn't it? I don't know how I got started on that. I'm trying to give some obscure Zazen instructions. It must be time for a break. Yeah, so let's have a break.

[70:15]

Can you say how long, please? It's always the same length. It's either half an hour or whenever I or someone rings a bell. You know, I really don't like a predictable world. I like a predictable world that you can change. Does anyone want to say something?

[71:25]

in relationship to what we've been discussing or anything that's on your mind about what might be beneficial for us or for you in practice or trying to sort out our existence. Also möchte irgendjemand etwas zu dem sagen, was wir besprochen haben oder irgendetwas, das sich irgendwie gut oder hilfreich für euch in eurer Praxis oder für uns ist oder einfach euch hilft, Dinge auszusortieren. So it seems to me that when we speak about where the attention comes from, how you direct it and all that work, we're caught in this paradigm of cause and effect and we're not regarding that things develop themselves out of themselves somehow.

[72:47]

That's also true, yeah. And this is in some ways very simple and also very knotty. K-N-O-T-T-Y. Like knots, right? Yes. We have tantric Buddhism, but we don't have knotty Buddhism. Okay, someone else. Yeah. I would like to understand better, because this has just happened to me again. It was highly interesting what he said and I think I was able to follow it very well at the end. And in the beginning it happened to me again, or what I have suffered over the past two years,

[73:50]

It's a kind of second sleep that takes about 20 minutes. What's going on there? And how can I handle it? Because I know, I used to get angry. Does the second sleep come in your life or in the lecture? No, no, here. I sit down here and fall asleep, but I still hear something somewhere. Somewhere I hear something, because I could immediately feel it when I woke up again. And I would like to... now I notice that at least the emotions are not coming anymore, about which I will talk again and so on. Yes, so one reaction after the other. I notice that and think, aha, there you are again, good. It's not my friend. Okay, so how to handle it better or what do you do with it, what happens there? Is that also with this awareness or with openness? I'm going home. So I have something that's happened to me like these two years and it really bothered me.

[75:04]

But now at least I don't need to emotionally react to my noticing it and then get more aggravated about it. That I sit here. I think the laptop really could follow really well, but I have these things. It feels like a second of sleep, but it's half an hour long. And then I notice I'm in there, and then I kind of wake up, and I can actually dock on to what's said. It's not that I'm missing out on things. But what is it that's happening there? What is causing it? What is it? How do I relate to it? How do I react to it? You mean while I'm speaking, for ten minutes you have three half hours of sleep. You know, it costs me something to confess that. Because it's not a disinterest. It's not a disinterest. It's not a disinterest.

[76:05]

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