We can speak in Dutch, too, if you'd like. I've come several years. I don't know how long exactly. I did not find enough place to go to and to sing songs. I don't know the words. To do things which I don't know what for. to do things I feel so nervous about. I feel so... I have such a fear to fail. I feel like I bring my rough form. I find no other place where I can bring my unrest and my rough form, so to speak, where I can be like that, also with unrest, maybe anxiety too.

[01:07]

Dummkopf, that's not a German word. There is no other place where I meet my rough form like this. So many doom clocks. And I still don't understand the genius. model or genius pattern behind, but I feel that it works in my life. Every time I come again, I am confronted I confront myself in practice with things I can refine.

[02:22]

But it's more a way of falling over my feet. I'm just... Yeah, every time again I come again and I forgot how rough this form is. I find in our Sangha, in the programs, the things I can join, I find a way of being more honest, more sincere, and finding out how I can relate towards myself, towards others, towards the world.

[03:43]

I find a way to relate to something I didn't know what I respect very much. And I find out by doing. And then often I'm deeply touched by experiences throughout the years. Experiences?

[04:46]

Yes. You speak in English? You can speak in Dutch, too, if you'd like. I've come several years. I don't know how long exactly. I did not find enough place to go to and to sing songs. I don't know the words. To do things which I don't know what for. And to do things I feel so nervous about. I feel so... I have such a fear to fail. I feel like I bring my rough form

[05:50]

I don't find any other place where I can bring my unrest and my rough form, so to speak, where I can be like that, also with unrest, maybe anxiety as well. Dummkopf, that's not a German word. There is no other place where I meet my rough form like this. So many doom clocks. And I still don't understand the genius. model or genius pattern behind, but I feel that it works in my life.

[07:00]

Every time I come again I confront myself in practice with things I can refine. But it's more a way of falling over my feet and of I'm just yeah every time again I'm I come again and I forgot how rough this form is. I find in our Sangha, in the programs and the things I can do, I find I find a way of being more honest, more sincere and finding out how I can relate towards myself, towards others, towards the world.

[08:43]

I find a way to relate to something I didn't know what I respect very much. And I find out by doing. And I'm often deeply touched by experiences throughout the years. I met my wife in precepts week.

[09:47]

And I feel the base I have with her in relationship. It was not possible without Sangha. I had no relationship before. There was either you or me. In the precepts week and also in our meeting something developed. I don't want to harm people anymore. I recognize in this moment how much I harmed people in relationship before.

[11:05]

And there an intention was touched to be more sincere, to be more honest. In my daily life I work in a mental hospital. Practice helps me to stay with suffering without trying to solve it. And my work as an artist. I am amazed about the shapes and forms that just appear.

[12:24]

And I developed Yeah, I developed also a commitment to follow this. And it's not something that comes from knowing. But it's something that moves me and it's something... So you find that your work as an artist is now integrated with your practice?

[13:29]

And you would recommend that we be very careful who we decide to give the precepts together with? You start taking vows and one thing leads to another. My practice is mainly mindfulness and zazen. I don't know if I can add calligraphy to it. Which I'm sort of aware that it's sometimes more like a healing process. Calligraphy, yeah. I met my wife in precepts week

[14:38]

And I feel the base I have with her in relationship was not possible without Sangha. I had no relationships before. There was either you or me. In the precepts week and also in our meeting something developed, I don't want to harm people anymore. And I recognize in this moment how much I harmed people in relationship before.

[16:05]

And there an intention was touched to be more sincere, to be more honest. In my daily life I work in a mental hospital. Practice helps me to stay with suffering without trying to solve it. I know my work as an artist. I am amazed about the shapes and forms that just appear.

[17:24]

And I developed Yes, I developed also a commitment to follow this. And it's not something that comes from knowing. But it's something that moves me and it's something... So you find that your work as an artist is now integrated with your practice.

[18:29]

And you would recommend that we be very careful who we decide to give the precepts together with. You start taking vows and one thing leads to another. Mona? Yeah, my practice is mainly mindfulness and zazen. I don't know if I can add calligraphy to it. Which I'm sort of aware that it's sometimes more like a healing process. Calligraphy, yeah. And, well, I think a very important place where I experience the practice is what I actually always had, that I am incredibly fascinated by the fact that with being alive, phenomena arise in one.

[19:52]

And to the phenomenon, outside and inside, something like an echo arises in one, so reactions or echoes arise. Where I find I feel most alive concerning practice is when phenomena appear around me and there is within me sort of an echo of these phenomena. I have a phenomenon either inside me or outside and additionally I have an echo. As a much younger person, I discovered that the relationship within this phenomenon and its echo either agrees to me or doesn't agree to me. And this relationship between the phenomenon and the echo can feel right or can feel wrong or sort of, yeah, unright.

[21:03]

And looking backwards from today's view, I have sort of tried to avoid situations where this feels bad. And when I was 18, there was a heavy catastrophe in my life. And then I tried to strengthen the structure of my life in that I wanted to give a meaning or a sense or meaning to my life. The second catastrophe appeared in my life and there was not even some meaning left, actually nothing after that.

[22:22]

The relationship is, I can leave it as it is, I don't have to do anything, but the space around that relationship gets larger, so I don't have to do anything to do about it. So, you know, it sounds like we could say that you're adding to the discussion the... Yeah. In addition to experiences, for example, that changed... what we found meaningful or changed what we found, yeah, made sense or meaningful.

[23:37]

You're adding, what happens when we come into situations where we find no meaning, then what do we do? I don't know if that's exactly what you said. The relationship between the phenomenon and I with this phenomenon. The relationship between the phenomenon and I with this phenomenon. It gets purer. It gets purer or clearer. And this voice that I have always been looking for And what I was always looking for, that this feeling of rightness can arise.

[24:49]

I find I feel most alive concerning practice is when phenomena appear around me and there is within me sort of an echo of these phenomena. I have a phenomenon either inside me or outside and additionally I have an echo. As a machine learning person, I discovered that the relationship within this phenomenon and its echo either agrees to me or doesn't agree to me. And this relationship between the phenomenon and the echo can feel right or can feel wrong or sort of unreal.

[26:00]

And looking backwards from today's view I have sort of tried to avoid situations where this feels bad. And when I was 18 there was a heavy catastrophe in my life. And then I tried to strengthen the structure of my life in that I wanted to give a meaning or a sense or meaning to my life. The second catastrophe appeared in my life and there was not even some meaning left, actually nothing after that.

[27:22]

The relationship is, I can leave it as it is, I don't have to do anything, but the space around that relationship gets larger, so I don't have to do anything to do about it. So, you know, it sounds like we could say that you're adding to the discussion the... Yeah. In addition to experiences, for example, that changed... what we found meaningful or changed what we found, yeah, made sense or meaningful.

[28:37]

You're adding what happens when we come into situations where we find no meaning and what do we do? I don't know if that's exactly what you said. The relationship between the phenomenon and I with this phenomenon, it gets purer or clearer. And what I was always looking for, that this feeling of arightness can find itself or arrange itself.

[29:50]

Yeah, thank you. It's also the case that practice does arise sometimes when we find no meaning. Here Dr. Konse, the Buddhist scholar, writes in the introduction to one of his books, the turning point in his life, As he woke up in the middle of the night and found himself in the dark with nothing against nothing. And that sort of turned him around. And Lona also pointed out the importance of calligraphy to her in her practice. And I think we could say that one of the things that happened in China

[31:02]

with the development of Buddhism in China, is what we could do on all the martial arts. And more specifically, perhaps practices like Tai Chi and Qigong. And then also calligraphy. And calligraphy for practitioners and in Chinese culture leads into... both painting and poetry. And what unites all these things What unites these arts of Zen practice, arts of Buddhist practice, is the sense that the patterns we have are also the patterns of civilization.

[32:28]

And when you do calligraphy, you're actually doing something that is rooted in how society itself is organized. Now I don't mean that we necessarily feel that when we're doing it. But in Chinese culture there was a sense of rites, ritual and patterns that they thought felt were the essence of both practice and the way people existed together. the practice of movements yoga, tai chi and things and calligraphy and tea ceremony is another example became practices that express

[33:48]

arts that expressed our practice, but were also thought to interface with the whole of culture itself. So it was a kind of fusion of civilizational practice and Buddhist practice. That's one of the reasons these arts were given so much dignity and expression in China and Japan. That might be something we could come back to. The feeling for the art, what? All rightness. All rightness, yeah. Can find itself or arrange itself. Uh-huh. Yeah, thank you.

[35:02]

It's also the case that practice does arise sometimes when we find no meaning. Here Dr. Konse, the Buddhist scholar, writes in the introduction to one of his books, the turning point in his life, As he woke up in the middle of the night and found himself in the dark with nothing against nothing. And that sort of turned him around. And Lona also pointed out the importance of calligraphy to her in her practice. And I think we could say that one of the things that happened in China...

[36:06]

with the development of Buddhism in China, is what we could on all the martial arts. And more specifically, perhaps practices like Tai Chi and Qigong. And then also calligraphy. And calligraphy for practitioners and in Chinese culture leads into... both painting and poetry. And what unites all these things What unites these kind of arts of Zen practice, arts of Buddhist practice, is the sense that the patterns we have are also the patterns of civilization.

[37:28]

And when you do calligraphy, you're actually doing something that is rooted in how society itself is organized. Now I don't mean that we necessarily feel that when we're doing it. But in Chinese culture there was a sense of rites, ritual and patterns that they thought felt were the essence of both practice and the way people existed together. Doing that together? How we existed together, lived together.

[38:30]

So, the practice of movements, yoga, tai chi and things, and calligraphy, and tea ceremony is another example. became arts that expressed our practice, but were also thought to interface with the whole of culture itself. So it was a kind of fusion of civilizational practice and Buddhist practice. That's one of the reasons these arts were given so much dignity and expression in China and Japan. That might be something we could come back to.

[39:41]

Christoph? Ja, ich habe ja 53 Jahre gedacht, ich bin schwer unter Druck. For 53 years I thought it was heavily under pressure. But there's nothing compared to what I feel at the moment. I feel that the pressure is so much that it really tears me apart. And what's sort of amusing at the same time is that I feel as alive as I've never felt before. The same is the fruit of practice, and all those changes in my practice at the same time.

[40:53]

I am of great expectation and clever ideas what Buddhism is all about. He has come back or come there to consider practice really as an exercise. So coming from great expectations and vast ideas of what Buddhism is, I came back to, or you said, back to seeing practice as a practice, practicing. This actual practice is something which shows or reveals itself in ever smaller units. So it's about asking every second, what is it, what's happening, what am I, every second.

[41:56]

And I think that in the past, the big ideas appeared to me much easier than the very practical exercises in small units. The most ideas formally seemed easier to me than this practicing in small units which seems to me more and more difficult. But at the same time it helps me to Find myself in the situation and not feeling that I have sort of defect or disease or whatever, deficiency.

[43:01]

And this also helps the feeling of isolation or this eternal reappearance of alienation connected with feelings of shame. And it also helps this feeling of estrangement, of isolation, to be better able to cope with that. Okay, and I practice this every morning and every evening in the Zazen, and I try to carry this out in my work, to practice and practice it there, and to come back here to the Zazen in the evening and continue with it. That's my practice. And every morning I practice that and then I try to carry that into my work and then come back in the evening and again practice that and make this my practice moment. Where does this greater than ever pressure come from?

[44:08]

Where does this greater than ever pressure come from? Yes, on the one hand, there are situations in my external area, i.e. in my profession and in my private life, that put me under a lot of pressure, and on the other hand, as I see it, it arises from the greater possibility of not deviating, of looking more closely, i.e. to be in the moment, to really look at what is there, not to go away. But once there's in my professional life and my private life, we'll come back to that. Christoph? Yes. I thought for 53 years that I was under heavy pressure. For 53 years I thought it was heavily under pressure. But that's nothing compared to what I feel on the open beach, where I think the pressure is so great that I think it tears me apart sometimes.

[45:13]

But there's nothing compared to what I feel at the moment where I feel that the pressure is so much that it really tears me apart. And what's sort of amusing at the same time is that I feel as alive as I've never felt before. On the one hand, this leads me back to my practice, and on the other hand, it also encourages me, or it has changed my practice. The same is the fruit of practice, but at the end all that changes is my practice at the same time. I am of great expectation and clever ideas what Buddhism is all about. He came back or came there to consider practice really as an exercise. So coming from great expectations and vast ideas of what Buddhism is, I came back to, or you said, back to seeing practice as practice, practicing.

[46:22]

This actual practice is something which shows or reveals itself in ever smaller units. So it's about asking every second, what is it, what's happening, what am I, every second. And I think that in the past, the big ideas appeared to me much easier than the very practical exercises in small units. It actually becomes more and more difficult. The last ideas formally seemed easier to me than this practicing in small units, which seems to me more and more difficult. On the other hand, it helps me to get an idea that I am in a position or in a situation in every moment and that I do not suffer from a defect or consist of defects.

[47:36]

But at the same time it helps me to find myself in the situation and not sort of feeling that I have sort of defect or disease or whatever, sort of deficiency. And that also helps to better see the feeling of isolation or this eternal reappearance of alienation associated with feelings of shame. And it also helps this feeling of estrangement, of isolation, to be better able to cope with that. Okay, and I practice this every morning in the zazen and every evening in the zazen and I try to practice this, to carry it out in my work, to practice it there and to practice it and to come back here to the zazen in the evening and to continue with it.

[48:47]

That's my practice. And every morning I practice that and then I try to carry that into my work and then come back in the evening and again practice that and make this my practice moment. Where does this greater than ever pressure come from? Where does this greater than ever pressure come from? Yes, on the one hand, there are situations in my external area, i.e. in my profession and in my private life, which put me under a lot of pressure, and on the other hand, as I see it, there is a greater possibility not to deviate, to look more closely, i.e. to really look at what is there, not to go away. But once there's in my professional life and my private life, there is a very big pressure and also the feeling of not being able to withdraw, to be confronted and faced with not being able to avoid anything.

[50:02]

I understand. Munir? This morning I thought, what is the reason that I stay with Zen? And it brought me back to the beginning. And my first experience was a whole weekend and I never did something on meditation. I asked myself this morning, why do I stay, and this brought me back to an early experience, a weekend experience, and I had never done meditation before. I met and it was a little moment, a very clear, I saw my own resistance.

[51:06]

And then I saw that I knew in my, that is how you have to work to come farther. I also experienced in that same weekend was the deep, deep respect that the people who were there had for everything and every person. I think that in the experience I had with Sen, before I met you, also experienced the the integrated energy in the group and in nature.

[52:24]

Since I practiced with you, I am more and more aware of several layers of mind, of consciousness. I think the basic is that I experience and I recognize more the stillness, not only in meditation, but because I have it in meditation, I experience it also in daily life.

[53:33]

I have a very strong outgoing energy from nature, I guess, and often it runs away with me. And what I learned is also to go the way of the energy going inside. I don't have a system in my practice.

[54:35]

Mostly I'm sitting still. And sometimes I'm doing some exercise, you talk... There is a very big pressure and also the feeling of not being able to withdraw, to be confronted and faced with not being able to avoid anything. I understand. Munir? This morning I thought, what is the reason that I stay with Zen? And it brought me back to the beginning. And my first experience was a whole weekend and I never did something on meditation. I asked myself this morning, why do I stay, and this brought me back to an early experience, a weekend experience, and I had never done meditation before.

[55:44]

I met and it was a little moment, a very clear, I saw my own resistance. And then I saw that I knew in my, that is how you have to work to come farther. What I also experienced in that same weekend was the deep, deep respect that the people who were there had for everything and every person. I think that in the experience I had with Sen, before I met you, also experienced the the integrated energy in the group and in nature.

[57:24]

Since I practiced with you, I am more and more aware of several layers of mind, of consciousness. I think the basic is that I experience and I recognize more the stillness, not only in meditation, but because I have it in meditation, I experience it also in daily life.

[58:33]

I have a very strong outgoing energy from nature, I guess, and often it runs away with me. And what I learned is also to go the way of the energy going inside. My practice, I don't have a system in my practice.

[59:35]

Mostly I'm sitting still. And sometimes I'm doing some exercise you talk about or work with sentences. One of the things lately and the last years, I heard I have a very great need for clarity of what is. And for that reason I went sometimes to other teachers, for instance a Tibetan or something, because they teach more knowledge.

[60:36]

I always had a great need for clarity, and that's why I went to other teachers, for example to the Tibetans, who teach more knowledge. But I decided for myself, since some years, I only have to do this because here I am at home. The sentence we also recited, may our intention penetrate every being and place, It has a great impact in some way. And I try to do this, I practice with it in daily life.

[61:39]

and you can feel the power of it. Thank you. Erhard? The beginning for me was a feeling of incompleteness. You could actually consider that as a step, the motor. After I'm inside it, I wish I really may be there. The beginning of practice for me was that of not being Perfect, an imperfection, so to say, for a long time.

[63:11]

But on the other hand, I had an experience of a situation where everything was right as it was. Yes. Yes, then I actually experienced my environment, the human environment, in such a way that it is almost exaggerated, but it is a sport to hurt each other. And I experienced my surroundings then as even making sort of a little effort to harm others, injure others. The more comforting that then was to meet people who appreciate and estimate others. Yeah, and... Esteem others, maybe.

[64:13]

Estimate? Estimate is to measure. But if I have a higher esteem of... Esteem others. Yeah, esteem others. Okay. For me, it was fascinating to hear the lectures. First of all, the lectures, simply because it was really... And then it was very important to help or work with sentences. One of the things lately I Lately and the last years I have a very great need for clarity of what is.

[65:19]

And for that reason I went sometimes to other teachers, for instance Tibetan or something, because they teach more knowledge. But I decided for myself, since some years, I only have to do this, because here I am at home. The sentence he also recited, may our intention penetrate every being and place. It has a great impact in some way.

[66:34]

And I try to do this and practice with it in daily life. And you can feel the power of it. Thank you. Erhard? The beginning for me was a feeling of incompleteness. You could actually see it as the motor. off down the inside of Abish Arena. The beginning of practice for me was not being...

[67:41]

Perfect, an imperfection, so to say, for a long time. But on the other hand, I had an experience of a situation where everything was right as it was. Yes. Yes, then I actually experienced my environment, the human one, in such a way that it is now almost exaggerated, but it is a sport to hurt each other. And I experienced my surroundings then as even making sort of a little effort to harm others, injure others. The more comforting that then was to meet people who appreciate and estimate others. Yeah, and... Esteem others, maybe.

[69:13]

Estimate? Estimate is to measure. But if I have a higher esteem of... Esteem others. Yeah, esteem others. Okay. For me, it was fascinating to hear the lectures. First of all, the lectures, simply because it was really... And then it was very important for me to listen to talks and lectures because this feeling of rightness or perfection was always connected with that. And although in the sesshins I suffered a lot, on the other side there was always the feeling of deep contentment.

[70:21]

And although I did suffer very much during the sesshins, there was always this deep feeling of contentness. As far as the concrete practice is concerned, for me it is the aspect of attention or presence, presence in the moment and perceiving what is in the sense field in the foreground. A concrete practice now is presence and perceiving what is in between the sense fields. In spite of these situations, a lot of things come up in my head that I heard in lectures in the past, so individual sentences, so that I can take that into account when looking at the situation.

[71:35]

And during this practice, much of what I formerly heard in your talks and lectures comes up and appears, and so I can let this sort of merge or integrate. It pops up. It pops up. Most important is the Sangha here, especially as a means of foundation and support. And this meaning of this implant has been really coming for consciousness lately.

[72:40]

is now a problem for me to bring up the discipline and to do that and in between or still, of course, the family is a help to me that I have the experience. Sitting at home doing Zaza never had been a problem for me. Just lately it has become more difficult to bring up the discipline for that, but then again my family is a big support for that discipline. Well, you recruited your daughter and your stepson. But it might be good to relax some. And when you practice, it leads to relaxation, which sometimes leads to not practicing as much. Then you have to find another basis for practicing.

[74:03]

Since Suzanne and your grandchild are not here, would you like to speak for them? Oh, this is good. Okay. Ulrike? Yes. I think we'll stop with Ulrike. Go ahead. I lived in Crestan, but for me to listen to talks and lectures, because this feeling of rightness or perfection was always connected with that. And although I suffered quite a bit in the zazhinas, on the other side there was also the feeling of deep contentment.

[75:21]

And although I did suffer very much during the zazhinas, there was always this deep feeling of contentness. As far as the concrete practice is concerned, for me it is the aspect of attention or presence, presence in the moment and perceiving what is in the sense field in the foreground. Pre-practice now is presence and perceiving what is in between the sense fields. And from these situations, a lot of things come up in my head, which I heard in the lectures in the past, so individual sentences, so that I can take the situation with me into consideration.

[76:35]

And during this practice much of what I formerly heard in your talks and lectures comes up and appears and so I can let this sort of merge or integrate. It pops up. Most important is the Sangha here, especially as a means of foundation and support. And this meaning of this impact has been really coming for consciousness lately.

[77:40]

It is now a challenge for me to bring up the discipline, and that is to do, and in between, or still, of course, the family is a help to me when I have the environment. Sitting at home doing Zaza never had been a problem for me. Just lately it has become more difficult to bring up the discipline for that, but then again my family is a big support for that discipline. Yeah. Well, you recruited your daughter and your stepson. But it might be good to relax some. And when you practice, it leads to relaxation, which sometimes leads to not practicing as much. Then you have to find another basis for practicing.

[79:03]

And since Suzanne and your grandchild are not here, would you like to speak for them? Oh, this is good. Okay. Ulrike? Yeah. I think we'll stop with Ulrike. Go ahead. I lived in Crestan several years and my practice was quite integrated into that schedule which was just given there. Ja, und seit ungefähr einem Jahr bin ich nicht mehr in Creston. Dann habe ich ein halbes Jahr in Boulder gelebt und jetzt in Berlin.

[80:05]

And since one year I don't live in Creston anymore. I lived for half a year in Boulder and since half a year I live in Berlin. Und ja, da ist meine Praxis einfach herauszufinden, wie das dann außerhalb von einem gegebenen Schedule Praxis funktionieren kann. So my practice is to find out how this works outside of a given schedule and its functions. And to see with new eyes how the world functions outside the monastery. And to rediscover my German sort of ancestry, where for many years I didn't have anything to do with, like bureaucracy and... Bureaucracy is your ancestry, yes.

[81:08]

Not... It's just part of Germany. Yeah. Well, you didn't live in Germany for quite a while, and is it much different than before? You've lived in Germany for quite a while, and is it much different than before? More vivid. More vivid? More expressively or German, sort of expressionately.

[82:10]

It really sticks into her eye. Vividly. Vividly, yeah. Okay. Hmm. Okay, let's sit for a moment and then we'll start. Thank you.

[83:35]

Does your backbone, your spine, have anything to do with mine? Does my backbone, spine, have anything to do with yours? Several years and my practice was quite integrated into that schedule which was just given there. And since one year I don't live in Creston anymore. I lived for half a year in Boulder and since half a year I live in Berlin. So my practice is to find out how this works outside of a given schedule and its functions.

[85:26]

And to see with new eyes how the world functioned outside the monastery. And to rediscover my German sort of ancestry where for many years I didn't have anything to do with, like bureaucracy and authorities. Bureaucracy is your ancestry. It's just part of Germany. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you didn't live in Germany for quite a while, and is it much different than before? More vivid.

[86:45]

More vivid? more expressively or German, sort of expressionately. It really sticks into her eye. Vividly. Vividly, yeah. Okay. Okay, let's sit for a moment and then we'll start. Let's sit for a moment. Thank you.

[88:35]

Does your backbone, your spine, have anything to do with mine? It is my backbone, spine, yeah. Anything to do with yours? What kind of metabolic field are we in when we practice together? Is this some fact outside of Buddhism or is it somehow also within Buddhism? In other words, we may be practicing something fundamental, quite independent of Buddhism.

[90:41]

And to put it another way, it can be that we practice something very fundamental, which is completely independent of Buddhism. That's a nice idea. Or is this somehow also fundamentally part of Buddhism? And even not perhaps independent of Buddhism? Yes. It's a way of asking, what are we doing? Is this Buddha's mind or

[92:07]

Fundamental mind. Is there any reason to ask or notice the question? My back, my spine has something to do with yours or yours.

[93:59]

What kind of metabolic field are we in when we practice together? Is this some fact outside of Buddhism or is it somehow also within Buddhism. In other words, we may be practicing something fundamental, quite independent of Buddhism.

[95:08]

That's a nice idea. Or is this somehow also fundamentally part of Buddhism? And even not perhaps independent of Buddhism? Yes. It's a way of asking, what are we doing? Is this Buddha's mind or fundamental mind?

[96:39]

Is there any reason to ask or notice the question?

[96:44]

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