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Zen and Self Beyond Perception
AI Suggested Keywords:
Seminar_Zen_and_Psychotherapy
The talk explores the intersection of Zen philosophy and psychotherapy, emphasizing the relativity of existence and the interconnectedness of self and environment as observed through Zen practices. Concepts such as emptiness and the nature of experience, including the utilization of senses to construct perception, are critically examined. The discussion also touches on notions of awareness versus consciousness, and how practice can enhance awareness by transcending the narrative self. Specific attention is given to understanding how personal and external experiences are synthesized in perception and awareness.
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Nagarjuna: It references Nagarjuna's teachings on emptiness and the idea that consciousness and perception are contingent upon sensory experience, thereby linking to the concept of 'self-present.'
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Alaya-vijnana: Discussed as the 'storehouse of consciousness,' this is contrasted with unconsciousness, highlighting the non-essential nature of what is mentally stored.
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In the Zone by Michael Murphy: Mentioned in relation to heightened states of awareness during athletic activities, illustrating how peak performance can enhance the sense of presence and intuitiveness.
These references highlight the synthesis of Zen principles with experiential and practical insights from psychotherapy, outlining a framework for understanding consciousness beyond conventional perception.
AI Suggested Title: Zen and Self Beyond Perception
Enjoying the moon. Yeah. When you see and not see your wife in a pretzel, you can imagine how many people had their legs stripped off. Well, I think I'll sit here and let me look at what I can say. If we're looking into how things actually exist, what could be more sacred than that?
[01:08]
Looking into what's hard to notice. At the same time, if you do look into this, that is hard to notice, difficult to notice, and deeply see, thoroughly see how everything is relative and Then there's nothing sacred. There's no one thing that's more important than another thing. So I think I should try to say something else about emptiness, since we're calling it thing.
[02:11]
So you will know that my promises are not empty. Well, another simple example is imagine you're Standing beside the corner of this building. And the one should say, fly, fly, fly this bird. And you see the fly. And you see it against the background. So you can see the fly. And the fly is there between you and the building and the trees.
[03:23]
But how are you noticing that the... How are you noticing this? Why? So forth. Well, Ulrike brought up yesterday a question about duration. How do we notice... Yeah. You know, if you're at Creston, there's this sort of platform like where Christine and I are. And then there's a valley down. down to the road below. It's about a thousand feet down. And then there's a vat, which was a former lake there.
[04:45]
Which is literally the size of the entire state of Connecticut. So sometimes I look out, it's empty, and I look out and heartfully read there and Bridgeport there. These are big cities, and you think, not big, no. And then behind, we're about, as I said, let's say 2,500 meters or so. And behind us, the mountains. So it's right behind us. And it's like a weather machine in a different world. When I come out of Zazen in the morning, I look up there every morning.
[06:19]
I feel this different world, much like being in Zazen. But it's basically unphotographable. photographable that's what you are anyway if you try to take a photograph the mountain is the same thing in the back you know now the camera is and you think and it doesn't it's not like that because when you're there it's just hovering above you you know white topped wind blowing off it But when you look at it, what are you doing? You're actually scanning. You're doing what the camera can't do.
[07:43]
You scan the mountain, and scan the building, and scan the situation, and you put it together. So one's real experience of it, a camera can't get. Maybe a genius photographer could do it. So even this standing beside the corner of the building and the flag on the... I'm creating by scan. I'm quickly seeing the ground, side of the building, and I put together a picture. Ich sehe ganz schnell den Boden neben dem Gebäude und ich stelle ein Bild zusammen.
[08:47]
And although all parts of it are changing and disappearing into the past or they're not there as they were each moment, My senses give me a sense of a place, a location. And I feel I'm somewhere. And in that somewhere, I fly to a place. And I think being a good Buddhist means outdoors, I think I'm in sight. Once I was hiking in Peru, and I was coming over the ridge with a friend who was lagging behind the front part group. einmal war ich wandern in Peru und wir sind, also ein Kuppel geht, das ist ein Kuppel, [...]
[09:57]
Then I looked down and saw two or three people who were doing this wonderful dance. And I thought, what a wonderful inspiration. They were pleased, and they were swarming on his table all over. They would leave him in bed. They were crazy. They were swallowing all the people. Several people didn't like it. [...] So I went down.
[11:19]
So I went down. But I somehow managed to get through the corner. And there's so many things you'd want for my business. You can't get back there. And there's so many things you'd want for your business. You just want to breathe back there. There's no black man. You can't see anything. [...] But you know, going back to Danny, he's like, no, no, no, yeah.
[12:22]
But you know, going back to Danny, he's like, no, no, yeah. Feel your own experience of establishing this location and direction. I mean, this is something that's so real. You sound like a milkman. That's the way it is. And you suddenly re-establish this background.
[13:24]
It's a fact. You can call the templates and all, but re-establish the background. You cannot call the template to non-recurrent space. Well, nothing to relate it to, really. As to the same column, not knowing it's the other 20, the Yangshan and the monster corrupt knowing it's you. and press the field to the T, the long, long circle, the other side of the map. And press the field there. but they can be up beside the mountain top.
[14:25]
But also, think down where you're standing, thinking about coming up here. But also, think down where you're standing, thinking about coming up here. So, Guishan says to Nongshan, it's so marvellous, so most famous, And you notice that the, and this is just a kind of bull in the rock question. There's two people like us. Let's go up to the down there and each down there. Let's go up to the Both practising them.
[15:45]
Both practising them. Both practising them. But we're both glad to see you. So it's true that... Play around with how you press things. Well, water levels things. Why don't you level it? Well, water levels things. Why don't you level it? Why don't you level it? Why don't you level it? Even water has nothing to depend on.
[16:51]
There is nothing to measure by, and even water has nothing to depend on. Nothing, just high up there and low down water. And Yangshan, too, just high up there and low down. So this is the kind of playfulness. And Yangshan says, oh, it's so beautiful. So this is the kind of playfulness. My first is what I just tried to express. My first is what I just tried to express. and the absences of non-referential states.
[18:00]
I was absent in a street in San Francisco, Washington State. I was walking along a street in San Francisco, Washington State. And suddenly a wind passed by, reached in, and this is a nothing. And it certainly wouldn't have reached in if I'd been practicing for a couple of years. But it certainly wouldn't have reached in if I'd been practicing for a couple of years. But it certainly wouldn't have reached in if I'd been practicing for a couple of years. And there was a cloud. And there was a cloud. And there was a cloud. I can't say where it is.
[19:11]
I can't say where it is. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But that was not a philosophical statement. It is all relative. But that was not a philosophical statement. But that was not a philosophical statement. And when you feel that, you don't feel any stress at all. And when you feel that, you don't feel any stress at all. And when you feel that, you don't feel any stress at all. And what's the difference with the practicing?
[20:26]
It's my mind that can... In this case, my mind had control over my body. And in this case, my body was not controlled. So let's say someone is attempting a vocation. So that's, let's say, something like this emptiness of location. Space itself has no room. So you, anyway... Yeah, space itself has no reference. Okay, very similarly related. That was anyway to another thing. Okay, very similarly related. That was again to another thing.
[21:27]
Looking how we salvage heaven. Again, looking how we salvage heaven. But now in this or I'm not emphasizing the location, I'm emphasizing the experience of my senses doing. And having experience of my sense of doing it, I feel also this
[22:29]
place my senses are creating is also the field of self. Self finds its own points of reference in this sense field. And so this is the present. I think it's the present. I think it's the present. But actually it's the self-present. The self made it, the activity of the vijnanas, the senses made it. The senses made it, the self lives in it, and it's all manufactured. When, as Nagarjuna would say, When the Vishnianas are gone, when you're dead, that location is gone.
[23:57]
It's a location entirely dependent on your senses. And that location is where the self functions. So when you look at it this way, the self-present, I call it not the present, but the self-present, involves us something empty. Now, what's the difference in, what are some of the differences in noticing things this way? Well, the world doesn't bear down on you so heavily. You feel very much in a kind of
[24:58]
Because even the present itself is your power. Now there can be a scary side to this. As I said this morning a sense of loss. You lose the material sense of the world. And you feel consciousness itself is just this thing you keep reestablishing. The material world is... The material framework for living is... Empty.
[26:23]
Consciousness itself is insubstantial. And the self could unravel in all this. So it can have a scary side. But maybe if you can live with the sense of loss, can live within the sense of loss. The black American music, which is so much so-called soul music, but sense of soul is a sense of loss. And I often think of, you know, on the one hand, a popular song, the only song that constantly I'm able to listen to,
[27:32]
are in one way something superficial. On the other hand, they're often Truth, repeated over and over again, we need to have present to us. These songs are I mean, it sounds like nonsense, but then if you fall in love, they sound just like yours. My funny valentine. You're my favorite work of art. You don't have to sing. Not from your job. I can't sing, but I own a drug. Now, strangely, we could say purifies consciousness.
[28:58]
Now I've been talking about awareness and consciousness. Now I'm talking about purified consciousness. I'm very quick on my head. But if you do begin to have the feeling of what your eyes and senses see and hear, is a field of activity without substantiality. It says today, the potential is your relationship to it. With all my Unpredictability is part of it. In this atmosphere of let's call it consciousness, self-relevant thinking, self-referential thinking can't really occur.
[30:16]
It can't survive. There's no territory for it to take hold of. So now why don't I call this awareness? Because I defined awareness as that which is also present during sleeping and lucid dreaming and so forth. But this purified consciousness I'm talking about, it goes away when you sleep. So it's a consciousness now which doesn't support the narrative self. And it's not a consciousness that depends on predictability, but in itself sees and feels unpredictability. Well, that's enough.
[31:44]
Why are you laughing? I was beginning to think I hadn't said enough, so then I thought. I feel how I can go further. But now I'd like to say... I thought I had my hand to get into a piece. Yeah, that's true. Um... What I'd like to speak about is adventure into the territory of, again, of impoverished. And keeping it sufficiently concealed and folded up.
[32:48]
So maybe he can't remember it. This morning. So is that okay? Should we have a break now? Yes. Yes. How do you notice awareness during sleep? Well, mostly we don't notice. However, the examples I give, if you decide to wake up 6.02 without an alarm clock. And you do. What did it? Consciousness didn't do it. What keeps you from wetting the bed at night? Was hält dich davon ab, ins Bett zu machen wieder?
[34:15]
We're trying to teach Sophia. We're doing pretty well. Awareness, baby, not conscious. How do you realize that you are not in the same place? I would say that to some extent you're always in the state of awareness. And it takes a different energy and so forth than consciousness. It may happen in other ways. I think that it may happen in all of us in other ways.
[35:24]
Perhaps intuition is a surfacing of awareness. Perhaps when you say, I made a decision, I had no choice. That no choice decision perhaps happens through awareness in myself. But that almost obvious way in which non-practitioners experience awareness is in sports events and athletes. And again, my friend Michael Murphy has collected a lot of the stories. He's published a book called In the Zone. It was first called the psychic side of sports.
[36:37]
But he had, you know, things have changed since he started, first he did the research of the book. When he first started doing the research, people were scared to tell him about these things. Now, 20 years later, that means that I look proud to tell him about these things because it's permissible to talk about. Where, you know, you're playing tennis, and when a tennis player, one of these really good tennis players, everything seems to happen very slowly.
[37:46]
The ball comes very slowly to you, so... I know lots of examples of that. But just say, when you do athletics or when you practice, Your presence of awareness is enhanced. One of the examples that happens, not so uncommonly, people do sashimi. Und eine der Erfahrungen, die nicht so ungewöhnlich ist für Leute, wenn sie sich Schins machen, ist, dass du völlig schläfst. Und ich spreche jetzt auch über das, was du aufgebracht hast. Und trotzdem kannst du ein vollständiges Gespräch mit jemandem haben, der in den Raum hineinkommt.
[38:48]
And stay asleep. And you know you can stay asleep and you can do it. You have to talk. You can't do too much discursive thinking. Descriptive thinking, but not discursive thinking. Yes, the heater over there. And you can report on the entire events of the room during the night. If you're sleeping, somebody else in the room may come in now. With much the same feeling and clarity that people who are in a coma in an operation can report on how the operation went even though they were out. So practice seems to do a number of things. It allows us to identify awareness and get a physical feeling, a vocation in the body.
[40:12]
It allows us to let go of identifying consciousness and feel the presence of awareness. It allows us to let go, to identify with the consciousness and to remain in awareness. And in noticing it and physically being aware of it, we enhance it. And it becomes more noticeably present all the time. After it is present. Go ahead. And these terms, great function, great potential refer to turning over most of
[41:16]
How you exist to... So in a way, you're in the zone all the time. What you're knowing is more a flow of intuition rather than thinking. What you wouldn't call intuition anymore, because it's just a way of noticing. No, I don't mean to make it sound difficult or good or anything. Or special. It's just if you practice regularly, it's also where you live.
[42:18]
You find it enhances these things which are present in all of us. And if you practice with a sense of the views that operate in your life, You can shift your views so these things are more present. You just feel more the way you are and you feel more like other people. When other people are no longer others. Okay, thanks. Sorry, so much. You know, we talked about eyebrows earlier.
[43:22]
They say, you talk about Zen, how much your eyebrows grow uncontrollably. Some of you are safe. I considered plucking, but I thought it would be vain. Exactly. She's like, Mimi, she left. She already left. She said, bye-bye. Too late. Too late. No, I think Peter has now had some discussion.
[45:02]
It's not long I discovered that I'm functioning in two ways when I'm getting up in the morning. There is one woman who has this to do list in various colors even because the coach I had, I consulted, she helped me to do this in colors even. And the young Hanva is standing up after doing her meditation and is beginning to do things, sometimes which are not on the to-do list, sometimes which are.
[46:14]
And I came to think about it when you told the story about not deciding. Yes, and one of them is trying to figure out in the morning what is all on the to-do list. And then my coach, who I had, even taught me how to write down colors, because sometimes I work in a different way. And the other way is just to get up after meditation and start something. I do not like my to-do list. I laugh the other way. And I have the feeling I'm going on a war and it's an experiment of how much is getting lost. And I'm lucky to have the chance because I'm on my own.
[47:21]
I can choose what I want to do first and next, and I can be creative. And so I just have some fixed points in my daily life. Actually, I don't like my to-do list, but I prefer the other way to work, where I just start something and sometimes it's always on the list, sometimes not. And that's a bit of a risk, because sometimes something could go wrong if I don't look, but I like it much better. And I came to the conclusion, as Roche said, that no decision is lost. And it's also connected to sometimes feeling like being newly born in the morning and having no contact to what has been yesterday and to follow up what has to be done, which is starting new. And have you guidelines for not falling down on either side?
[48:28]
Yeah, I'm just an ordinary guy with the same problem. I think, again, thinking about monastic life, One thing monastic life does is it regulates everything. At the same time, it allows you to bump into trees and no one says it's wrong. So basically, because everything's taken care of, somebody's going to feed you and things. You can get up and just do whatever you please and then Yeah, somehow it all works. You don't need to-do lists, you don't need anything, because it's all figured out. It's rather nice, because after a while you get used to it.
[49:32]
Das ist ziemlich nett, denn nach einiger Zeit gewöhnt man sich daran. Getting used to it makes a difference later on. Und sich daran zu gewöhnen, das macht später dann einen Unterschied. But I'm not much one for planning at all. Aber ich bin überhaupt nicht so einer, der plant. But I find when I'm leaving for a specific place. Aber ich stelle fest, dass wenn ich abreise, um irgendwo hinzufahren, Rotzenburg, Freiburg, Four seminars in a row or a weekend in New York or something. I have to pack it. So I have different lists on my computer. Lists for overnight trips, lists for long trips, lists for foreign countries. But like you, I just get up and I just start tacking. And I never look at the list.
[50:55]
But actually, one thing, one thing, look at it, look at it. But by just doing it, by just doing it, one thing leads to another, to me, and much more. I start hearing things that wouldn't have been on my mind. Why are you doing that? Why are you doing that? Why are you doing that? She's much better. She's much better. I'll tell you something. Okay. Okay. You're laughing. You're laughing. Yes. Yes. I ask myself, what would be the conflict?
[52:14]
I don't know. I don't know. I'm just there. I'm just there. And they probably interfere with, I would say, they interfere with awareness. We have to be careful not to turn and... Yes. And I asked myself, what is this learning process? What do you want me to do?
[53:51]
And were the things you were trained by parents or society, you were trained by parents or society, which are not any longer present in consciousness? How they are in a similar storage. Yeah, yeah. Good question, good question. Well, let me just, well, let me just, some people seem to have, some people seem to have a fear of waking up at a specific time in their life. It's also a skill. It's like a muscle. You can develop it. And if you do it and you trust it and take your chances and not getting up, you get better at it. And it's always astounding to me how unbelievably accurate it can be.
[55:29]
I think I'll find an answer for myself. There are informations which never enter the field of consciousness, which are transported with informations that are transported in the field of consciousness. So if There's information that is turbulent. . Maybe with the information that is transported in consciousness, information goes along which is transported in unconscious.
[57:16]
Okay. and I can imagine that the information which in the medium of the unconscious resonates with awareness. And maybe awareness functions more precise than consciousness. Yeah, I think it does. In a different way. It's a different kind of precision. But I would like these speculations or these ideas to be all of your subject, not just myself.
[58:24]
The other day I... Despite being in Europe a lot, I'm still sometimes confused by 14 o'clock. And I don't know, I set the alarm. I had to get up after a few hours somewhere, do something in England. And I had to get up after a few hours somewhere, do something in England. And I set the alarm and I set it 12 hours in long. So I went to sleep and, you know, I thought, oh, the reason I set the alarm was to really need, these days, since my operation, I often need seven or eight or nine hours of sleep and I've never slept nine hours of sleep in my mind until...
[59:30]
It's kind of nice to sleep. Anyway, so... I thought, jeez, I can't really get up after three and a half hours. I mean, it was so tired. And I thought, suddenly what? So I thought it was 12 hours long. So I was sleeping away. So I was... overcome my feeling in sleeping something's wrong. So I looked at the clock and it was exactly the time I was supposed to wake up.
[60:33]
So awareness in this sense is really much more connected with the things as they exist than with my thinking or plans or the alarm clock or something. But your question raises for me the question Where, where, or how are views stored? I've never asked myself this question. I can imagine how I overlooked it. I am really, I feel quite stupid. But, you know, I'm always saying the difference between The view that we're separated from the view that we're connected.
[61:50]
And how the view that we're separated is prior to perception. I've never asked myself, how is it located in us? How is it maintained in us? I have to give it some experiential thought. A colleague of mine had a car accident where the car was totally smashed, but there was no injury.
[62:53]
She went into a bus where the school kids are taken and because the driver of this bus overlooked that the other car was coming on the main road. And one day later, on television, I saw a report, how our eye... How our eye, how they register a perception. Scanning our eyes. Scanning. One example was that in the cricket game, the good player already, when the ball leaves the back, knows where it will end up.
[64:41]
And why didn't you just put up the hand, Tej? Tej was not a team where basketball was played. We were a blue team. Another example was there was a short scene of a basketball game. There were the yellow ones and blue ones, and the audience should see whether they can notice something in this game. And I didn't notice any of it.
[65:46]
There was just this game going on. Then they played this scene again. And it was so that they had a game set up. And it was the case that during this game, a pig was marching through this play field. But I, as the person watching it, I co-perceived his song because I watched the teams play. So for me, this was a good explanation for the behavior of this woman driving the school bus.
[67:00]
He saw the Rant. That's it. [...] That's And when you started the story saying there's this game with Yoko. I thought, we should remember that story of the orangutan, and then you told me the story of the orangutan. I saw the orangutan walking right to the woman. Thank you. It's great, a great story.
[68:14]
Yeah. I have an idea of what the Twister brought, and I would like to bring it to you, Richard. I have no idea of what Krista asked, and I would like to present it to you. As I understood you, awareness only perceives the relations. movements and not energies. So this means that there are no contradictions. and also no conflicts.
[69:26]
Consciousness is the process of symbolization or the process of construction of entities. And in that process, it's only in that process that conflicts arise. I think that's right. And then maybe unconsciousness is a real place, I mean psychic place, in the sense that out of our consciousness, conscious material is unconsciously stored. is that unconsciousness may, we can understand unconsciousness to be where conscious material is unconsciously stored.
[70:34]
And that's good to make it that precise, I think, because it's very clear via the light of his yana at the storehouse, which is nearly unfolded. And it is good to make it so precise, because the alaya vishnana, as a Lagerweiss, is not about conscious material. And it would be better to call it non-consciousness than unconsciousness. Those may not be good words for it, but it's better than equating the alaya vishnayana with unconsciousness. Now we're eating at six, is that right? Thirty? Fifty? Is it what?
[71:42]
A pie? A pie. It's nuts. Is it an apple stew? I understood finally that strudel is an involvement. So if that is the case, then this is a Zen strudel. So I expect Gooning is one of her favorite things to do.
[72:05]
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