This afternoon I'm going to talk on section 11, start page 88. The bottom of page 88. This section is a little longer than before, so I'm First, read the original story, Koran story. And later, I'm going to talk paragraph by paragraph. Page 88. Shuanpo. Shuanpo is Ōbaku in Japanese pronunciation. Ōbaku is Isan. The Obaku is Hyakujo's disciple. Therefore, Isanreyu, the person who said, no buddha nature, but Darumaga's brother. And also, he was a teacher of Rinzai, Giken, the founder of Rinzai school of China.

[01:15]

So, Hyakuo, Pyuanpo, or Obaku, was sitting in Nanchuan's tea room. Nanchuan is Nansen. And Nansen is Hyakujo's dharma brother. So Obaku's dharma uncle. So it seems Obaku was practicing with his teacher's dharma brother. So sitting in Nanchuan's tea room. Let me use Japanese pronunciation. Nansen said, practicing Dhyana and Prajna equally, you clearly see the Buddha nature. What is the essence of that teaching?

[02:19]

Kyonko said, or Obaku said, the essence is attainment when you are not depending on a single thing without the 24 hours. Nansen said, Elder, Elder Mark, isn't that the attainment you yourself have achieved? Obaku said, no, not at all. Nansen said, Forget for now about the cost of the food and drink you have had here. Who is going to pay for those sorrowful thunders of yours? With that, Obaku abandoned the conversation. This is the story. saying, over, not over, but Nansen quote, and asked to overhook.

[03:42]

In this translation, practicing Dhyana and Prajna equally, you clearly see the Buddha nature. is another quotation from the Alibhana Sutra. The expression is, Jō E Tō Myō, Ken, Bushō. Jō e tōgaku Myō, Ken, Bushō.

[04:53]

Jō in this translation is translated as Diana. Diana is Zen or Chan. in Sanskrit. But usually this jo is a translation of samadhi, not dhyana. And e is wisdom or prajna in Sanskrit. To is equal or equally studied or practiced. means clearly can see Buddha nature. So this means if or when you or we study samadhi and wisdom equally, you will see the Buddha nature clearly.

[05:57]

That's the translation of this And my second question is, what is this, what is the essence of, the original word is D. D is reason or principle. So what is the principle of this saying, this teaching? In the Parinibbana Sutra, when the sutra discusses about the buddha nature, that is the chapter of Shishiku, chapter of Plum and Roa. In order to see the buddha nature, the sutra discusses the practice of samadhi and prajna.

[07:05]

And according to, I think it's kind of unusual, but according to the sutra, what the sutra is saying, this samadhi means shamatha, and this winter means repassion. Shamatha is shi in Chinese, or Japanese, and repassion is kam. Shi and kam is the translation of Shamatha and Vipashyana. She, Chinese character, seems to stop, and Kan is to see. So sometimes she can translate as stopping and seeing. And according to the sutra, samadhi means we don't take the shape or color of the object and we don't make any discrimination.

[08:27]

So stop making discrimination is shamatha or stopping. So this is no discrimination. and vipassana or wisdom is to see the object clearly and make distinction. That is jo and e, sabbata and vipassana. Usually, especially in Mahayana Buddhism, prajna is defined as no discriminating wisdom beyond discrimination. It seems, at least according to this Parinibbana Sutra, that wisdom is... Samadhi is no discrimination.

[09:28]

And wisdom means discrimination beyond non-discrimination. Does it make sense? Discrimination, usually our human discrimination is delusion, based on like and dislike, or preference. And practice of vipassana, no, samatha, is to stop discrimination and just calm down. So no discrimination. But Buddha's wisdom is not that condition of stopping. But somehow Buddha stood up from the sitting and walked to the beer park to teach. And in order to teach, he again had to use wisdom.

[10:32]

And in order to talk, of course, I think Buddha needs to make discrimination or distinction. And also, when someone asks a question, in order to understand the person's question, Buddha needs discriminating mind. In order to understand the problems or suffering, Buddha needs to make separation. discriminating rhythm is beyond discrimination. I think that is the idea. And the sutra says, it's not three steps.

[11:41]

But, jo, e, and sha, that's what I just said, sha. Sha, as a Chinese character, literally means to throw away, give up. But, sometimes, as a Buddhist term, sha is used as a neutral. As a sensation, present, un-present, and neutral. This neutral is sha. Present is rak, and un-present is ku, and neutral is sha. So ku, rak, sha. But here, sha means to be equal.

[12:44]

And to be equal here means to be well-balanced. That means jo and e need to be equal and well-balanced. That means non-discrimination and discrimination should be well-balanced. That's what this jo-e-to-gaku means. So this poem is sha. Jo and e should be well balanced. Then, ah, what is that? And it says, some people are good at practice or calculate samadhi, non-discrimination. And some people are good at cultivating wisdom, discrimination.

[13:47]

But people who are good at practicing or cultivating samadhi should learn wisdom. And people who are good at wisdom need to cultivate samadhi. That is how these two, jo and ei, can be well balanced. And the sutra says bodhisattvas are usually good at wisdom. You know, in the Mahayana sutra, the prajna is most important thing. The first important Mahayana Sutra is Prajnaparamita Sutra. That means, within six parameters, Prajnaparamita is the most important primary practice.

[14:51]

So, Bodhisattva cultivates wisdom of Prajna. The Sutra says, cultivate more samadhi than wisdom. So, Pratyekabuddha, Sri Lankan Pratyekabuddha doesn't see the creator. But bodhisattva is not good at cultivating samadhi. So they make distinction. So both are not well-balanced. But it's the Buddha, all Buddhas, Buddhas and world-honored ones, can, not can, but do equally study Jo and E, Samadhi and Wisdom.

[15:57]

So buddhas can see the buddha nature clearly. That is what this sutra is saying. So in this sutra, samadhi, that is no discrimination. But no discrimination means Everything is one thing. No separation. And discrimination means everything has its own unique nature, form, body, energy and function. The first five of the ten satchins I took from the Lotus Sutra. Maybe we can say, A is the aspect of U buddha nature, and DO is the aspect of MI buddha nature.

[17:13]

And we need to use both equally in order to see the buddha nature. That is the meaning of the quote in this sutra. And this Jōge Tōgaku, which is equally studying Samadhi and Prajna, is one of the important teachings of the Platform Sutra of the three nuns, or the six ancestors. In the Platform Sutra, we can find such teachings, of course, Eno or Shuinan said. Good friends, my teaching of the Dharma takes meditation, here meditation is Jo or Samadhi, and wisdom, E, as its basis.

[18:25]

So, Samadhi and wisdom is the base of Shuinan's are teaching. And he said, never under any circumstances say mistakenly that meditation and wisdom, jo and e are different. They are unity, not two things. So in the sutra, in the case of Parinibbana Sutra, these are two things and we need to study and practice both equally. So if we sit two hours, we have to study two hours. That's the idea. But Shri Nan said, jo and e, samadhi and meditation are one and same thing. It's not a matter of well-balanced.

[19:27]

Meditation itself is a substance of wisdom. This substance is time. Or same as body in the Ten Sutras. And meditation itself is a substance of wisdom. And wisdom itself is a function of meditation. Function is you. Tai and you are two very important concepts in Chinese philosophy. Not only Buddhism, but also Taoism too. Tai is the thing itself, and you is that function. You know, in the Lao Tzu, dōtoku or virtue of the Tao is the same thing.

[20:35]

Tao is time and toku or virtue is you. So anything has its own substance or time and its function. So samadhi and wisdom are one and the same thing. And samadhi is time. Meditation is a substance of wisdom and wisdom or discrimination, make distinction, is a function of samadhi. So, no discrimination and discrimination should be. At the very moment when there is wisdom, If there is wisdom, then meditation or samadhi exists in wisdom. At the very moment when there is meditation, then wisdom exists in meditation.

[21:45]

So meditation is itself samadhi. Meditation is itself wisdom. And wisdom is itself samadhi. So it's not too... shamatha and vipassana are not two separate things we have to equally study. But when we practice, cultivate shamatha, wisdom is already there, or vipassana is already there. When we practice vipassana, shamatha is already there. That is the finance of teaching. So it's kind of different, a little different from the Pali Nibbana Sutras. And, good friends, this means that meditation and wisdom are alike. Same thing. Students, be careful not to say that meditation gives rise to wisdom.

[22:51]

Meditation gives rise to wisdom. It's a kind of a common understanding. Vinaya, Samadhi and Wisdom are called three basic studies. And a common understanding of those three basic studies is, of course, when we become a Buddhist monk we need to receive Vinaya precept. That is the way we regulate and harmonize our daily lives. That is a preparation to study Samadhi or meditation. When our daily lives are not well organized, it's not possible to sit quietly. If we have so many confusions and problems and competition in our daily lives, And then we try to sit quietly.

[23:52]

It's very difficult at all. At least. So in order to sit quietly in peace, we need to peace-specify or well-organize our life. And that is why we need to keep the precept. And, you know, calm down. shamatha or meditation. And when we calm down, our mind calms down and becomes clear, then we can see things clearly as wisdom. Then we have to see the reality of each and everything. That is the basic idea of three basic studies. Vinaya, samadhi and wisdom.

[24:53]

But what Huy Ngan is saying here is we should not say that meditation gives rise to wisdom. So this is not a kind of a step. You know, this dzo or samadhi is not a preparation to study wisdom. Or that wisdom gives rise to meditation. So these two are not a matter of cause and result. These two are not two, but one and same thing. Or that meditation and wisdom are different from each other. To hold this view implies that things have duality. If good is spoken, find the mind is not good. Meditation and wisdom will not be alike. If mind and speech are both good, then the internal and the external are the same, and meditation and wisdom are alike.

[26:08]

The practice of self-awakening does not lie in verbal argument. Verbal argument using words and concepts. If you argue which comes first, meditation or wisdom, you are deluded people. So it's not a matter of which is first. These two are at the same time. You won't be able to settle the argument and instead will cling to objective things and will never escape from the false state of phenomena. So if Shinran said Jo and E are one and the same thing, it's not a matter of well-balanced or not. And, of course, Jo Nansen is a third generation from the six patriarchs and Shinran.

[27:13]

Nansen must know this teaching of Huinan. And that is the question Nansen gave to his... I think at the time Obaku was studying in his assembly so he was a student of Nansen. To me it's kind of difficult to understand what this story means. So I try to find out what's the relationship between Nansen and Obaku. And I try to find the stories, other stories, about Nansen and Obaku in the Record of Dharmaramba. three stories, and the third one is this one, this story.

[28:24]

But the first one, to me, it's interesting, and it has some connection with this story. That is, the story says, when Nansen, the abbot of the monastery, holding Oryoki, and enter the monk's hall. That means to have meals. Then somehow, at the highest seat, Obako was sleeping. The story says it's the dai ichi za. Dai ichi za means first seat. And dai ichi za, first seat, usually means the seat for shuso, or head monk. But it seems he was not, Obaku was not head monk. So that was not his seat.

[29:27]

But somehow Obaku was sitting in the highest seat. And I'm not sure whether this is a short seat or not. It seems that seat was for Nansen, the abbot. Then nothing came in. So the abbot had no seat to sit. And even when Obaku saw the abbot comes in, he didn't move. Then Nansen asked, the literal translation is, he called Obaka's Choro.

[30:35]

Choro literally means elders. In what era or age did you practice? you are still junior and adult is coming, but you don't move, you don't offer the seat. How long have you been practicing?" Then Obaku said, I have been practicing since the time of Kuo, This is the name of Buddha. Kuo literally means empty king. Empty king Buddha. That means before anything happens. So this saying is something like, I have been practicing since Big Bang.

[31:41]

But Nansen said, if so, you are still my dharma grandson. That means Nansei is saying, I am practicing longer than that. So he said, so move. That's the story. The story doesn't say. I guess so. Otherwise, no later stories. I think it means Kovács was still very young and yet he thought he or rules, regulations, all those are all conventional things.

[32:53]

I don't care. That's kind of, I think, attitude. Many of so-called half-baked Zen practitioners are like that. I think that was the stage of Obaku. So he was pretty much against half-baked one. arrogant because of his understanding and practice and maybe his grasping to his so-called enlightenment. In that case, that person, people, that is kind of a sickness of them. It means, I don't hear anything. No discrimination, no separation. no conventional feeling. I see the absolute truth. I think Nansen saw that sickness of overgrowth through his attitude.

[34:07]

So I think this story is a continuation of that So he is asking, you know, if you really see the Buddha nature or true reality, you have to practice jo and te. Discrimination and non-discrimination should be together. But you ignore discrimination and only see beyond discrimination. And that is not complete. So you should see that discrimination again, that means your practice is not yet complete. So, I think that's the meaning of his question. What is the principle of this teaching, Cho and E, Samadhi and Wisdom, or discrimination

[35:11]

then Obaku's answer is probably as nice as expected. The essence or principle of this teaching is attained when you are not depending on a single thing throughout the 24 hours. That means, I don't depend on anything. I am me. That's it. I have no interdependent origination with others and perfect, complete. This is a kind of delusive absolute truth. And this is also a kind of ignorance That's why Mansen said, Elder monk, isn't that the attainment you yourself have achieved?

[36:24]

That means that you are still your own personal, in this translation, attainment, but the original word used in Chinese is kensho. Kensho is view. So, isn't it your own personal view? And Obak said, no, not at all. No, not at all means yes, it is. Dogen explained this expression later. Then, Nansen said, Forget for now about the cost of the food and drink you've had here. Who's going to pay for those straw sandals of yours? That means in order to attain or gain such views, you have been practicing many years.

[37:30]

And who pays the food and drink? And who pays for the straw sandals to travel to visit teacher to practice. That means even though you have such a view that I am independent, still, you know, you could practice in that way from the help or support of many people. If your view is such a kind of one-sided, the person doesn't see the interdependence, relationship with others, connection with others. If your view is still such a limiting, how can you return the money for the food you receive and for the straw sandals You have been practicing in this way and you have such a view and yet you are still supported by so many people.

[38:51]

How can you return that kind of debt of kindness to those people? I think that is the meaning of this original story. This is my own personal view. as like Obaku's, so maybe it's not correct. But this is my understanding. So then with that, Shoranpo, or Obaku, abandoned the conversation. He became quiet. I think that is the meaning of this story. But as usual, Dogen Zenji interprets this story in a completely different way. Now Dogen will start to talk.

[40:03]

The essential meaning of practicing Dhyana or Samadhi and Prajna equally, Jogye Togaku, is not. Since the practice of Dhyana does not infringe on the practice of Prajna, you clearly see the Buddha nature when both are practiced equally. This is the Arunibhāna Sutra is saying, if we study Jo and E equally, then we can see the Buddha nature clearly. But Dōgen said, this does not mean that. So, in that sense, Dōgen is closer to Tathagatagarbha's understanding. Rather, it is clearly seeing the Buddha nature. is a practice in which Dhyana and Prajna or Samadhi and Prajna are in equal balance.

[41:13]

That means seeing the clear seeing of Buddha nature is the, in a sense, basic thing. Because of this, we can practice equally Jo and E. That means discrimination and non-discrimination. Only when we see the Buddha nature clearly, we can use discrimination and non-discrimination equally. I think that is what Dogen is saying. It's not a matter of, as a result of or practicing those two equally, you can see the Buddha nature clearly. But this should be the first. And Nansen is articulating what is the meaning of that.

[42:24]

So Dogen again doesn't read Nansen's question in the story. as a question, but he read as a statement. Phat is the meaning of that. Means this phat is again the word which refers to or points out the vastness. Same as ka. A reality beyond any definition or naming is the meaning or principle of this teaching, Jōei Tōgaku Myōken Busshō. And he is in effect saying that by saying FAPI the meaning of that.

[43:34]

This is Nansen's statement. Clearly seeing the buddha nature is the act of who. Who is the person without definition without condition, unconditioned person. And that is buddhanature. So clearly seeing buddhanature is the act of buddhanature. That means buddhanature clearly see the buddhanature. It's not a matter of this deluded person. If I practice jo and e equal, I can see buddhanature. If we interpret this in this way, this is still subject, object and some kind of happening between or within the encountering between subject and object. But Dogen said that is not the case.

[44:38]

Buddha nature is clearly seeing the Buddha nature. And because of that, we can practice both samadhi and wisdom, or we can use discrimination and non-discrimination equally. And this discrimination and non-discrimination can be, in our sense, thinking and not thinking. And this buddha nature, Buddha nature, seeing the Buddha nature is hishiryo, or beyond thinking. Thinking, not thinking, beyond thinking. So this is, according to Dogen, this is a description of our zazen, what is happening. Joe Myoken Bussho practiced dhyana or samadhi and

[45:42]

wisdom, or thinking and not thinking, or not thinking and thinking. The buddha nature, so this is not realist to see something, subject, see object, but according to Dogen, this ken is to say like gen, gen in genjo koan, that means buddha That means manifestation. So Buddha nature manifests itself as a form of thinking and not thinking. I think that is how Dogen Zenji reads this conversation. As a form of thinking and not thinking. Yeah. In terms of letting go, I think this relates in terms of Letting go? Yeah.

[46:44]

How does that work? Yeah, within letting go, this thing happens. Letting go means I don't control, I don't see, I don't chase after our thinking. At that time, you know, the nama rupa ceases to be a nama rupa. Then each and everything appears as they are. I think that is how Buddha nature, seeing the Buddha nature clearly. Buddha nature, manifest Buddha nature itself. So this is the description of Jijin Zalman or Awazazen. To say if you practice Buddha, and nature equally. You will clearly see the Buddha-nature.

[47:47]

I don't agree with this translation. But the original sentence is, instead of jo-e, Dogen put, instead of jo-e, put busho, busho to-gaku, myo-ken busho. That's why this translate, I think, Buddha and nature equally study. Then clearly see Buddha-nature. But I don't think that that doesn't mean. Buddha-nature equally study. Equally study means use both jo and re. Samadhi and wisdom, or thinking and not thinking. That is the way Buddha Nature clearly stated Buddha Nature.

[48:52]

And the fact is the meaning of that. Fact is the meaning of that. So this is again not a question. is also an authentic atlas of truth. So, this is a description of reality of our Zazen. And Hyuangpo said, or Obaku said, When you are not depending on a single thing throughout the 24 hours, essentially this means even though the 24 hours exist within the 24 hours of each day, they are non-dependent. statement by Dogen has something to do with what he discussed in Uruji, being time. And in the Uruji, he discussed two kinds of time.

[50:06]

One is the time within each day. For example, in 430, during this retreat, and we sit from 5 to 4, 15 minutes, and we practice kinhin for 10 minutes, and we sit again, and after that we have breakfast. That is how we think the time is, and we try to follow that schedule. That is a kind of a time in our common sense. But in Shobo Genzo Uji, he discussed This is not only time we experience. There is another, I don't know the word, type, or kind, or layer, or whatever. The time which doesn't move. The time which doesn't pass away. The time is always there, always this moment.

[51:09]

And from the time of the big bang, and until the endless end. This is one moment. The, you know, the right time using the learnings such as one day, one year, one day, or one minute, one second, is our convention. It's not real time. It's our man-made, you know, convention. actual time doesn't really move, doesn't pass. There's no such separation. So in our conventional idea of time, depending upon what time is it, you know, we sit in zazen and we stand up and do kihin, and because this is a time of lecture, I have to give a talk. Even though I don't want to.

[52:12]

This is depending on the time, depending on the time and conditions. We try to think what is the best thing to do, what is my responsibility, what is my duty. What he said, I mean Dogen's interpretation of what Xuantong is saying is that, when Xuantong said, for 24 hours I never depend on anything, means this time and this being is not individual, particular person within particular time, within conventional flows of time.

[53:15]

But this one moment, from the big bang to the endless end, this is one time. And this one time does not depend on anything. There is no foundation beyond that. And within this time, things are interdependent and changing, but the entirety of that movement depends on nothing. That's it. I think that is Dogen's interpretation of this saying of Obaku. So, Dogen doesn't understand Obaku's saying as his arrogance, that I am alone. I can stand by myself. I don't rely on anything. But he interpreted this saying of Obaku as the expression of the absolute reality on which things are coming

[54:33]

and always changing, interdependent, till the totality of this interdependent origination depends on nothing. And because not depending on a single thing is within the 24 hours, it is the Buddha nature clearly seen. Buddha nature, clearly seeing the Buddha nature. So the reality itself, it's not a matter of I can see it or I can live without relying on others. As for the 24 hours, 10 is not the time of their arrival. This is what Dogen said in Uji and also previously in this writing, Buddha Nature, when he discussed about, in order to see Buddha Nature, we have to see temporary conditions, even section 2.

[55:52]

So time has always arrived. That means this is only time. we can live, we can see, we can practice. The time... In what land does the arrival not occur? That means everywhere, all over, everywhere this present moment has arrived. And that is the only time that exists. Are the 24 hours referred to here 24 hours in the human world? Are they 24 hours somewhere else? Or is this the temporary arrival of 24 hours in a land of white silver? Land of white silver referred to land of Samantha

[56:56]

Wherever it is, the present moment is only present moment. And time is always alive. That is this moment. And whatever the case, whether it is our own world or another world, like the world of Amitabha Buddha or Samantabhadra Bodhisattva, it is non-dependent. The totality of this universe does not depend on anything. In fact, this lies within the 24 hours and can be non-dependent. So, Dogen Zenji interprets Obaku's saying in a completely different way. No one besides Dogen could think this way.

[58:08]

It's really amazing. Elder monk, isn't that the attainment you yourself have achieved? This is an answer to the question to Obaku. Is the same as saying, isn't that the Buddha nature clearly seen? So this means, is this your view? Means, is this Buddha nature seeing the Buddha nature or not? Then, even though Nansen makes this utterance about it being Obaku's attainment Obaku must not turn his head as if it referred to him That means this elder monk does not necessarily mean Obaku as an individual person.

[59:11]

But elder monk, same as Buddha or Buddha nature, but entirety of reality itself. So this is a view or a seeing of Buddha nature. Although it may apply very well Shrampo or Obaku, it does not refer to Obaku. Obaku certainly is not necessarily only himself. Because a master is the same as an elder monk. Way of attainment or view is utterly unrestricted and all-pervading. So this is the description of entirety of network of interdependent origination. And Hsiung Po said, no, not at all.

[60:18]

And Dogen explained what this means in Chinese language. In Song China, When a person is asked about some talent or ability he may possess, even if he wishes to acknowledge the ability, he answers, no, not at all. It's kind of a humble way of saying, yes, I am. In Japanese, we have a similar expression. We say, dōitashimashite, one sentence like that. Even when we do our best and people praise, we say, dōitashimashite. Anyway, that's the same idea. So that means the meaning of the word and the person's mind or what that person is trying to say are different.

[61:22]

So hence the words no not at all do not literally mean no not at all. They are not to be taken at face value. As for the mode of understanding of a Zen master, even though he is a master or even though he is a hyonpo or obaku, when he speaks, he has no choice but to say no not at all. That means, obaku as an individual is also buddhanature, all-pervading. That means connected with everything. So, no not at all is kind of a humble saying of yes I am. But this no not at all is also a saying or utterance

[62:31]

of the buddha nature, although that was spoken through Obaku's mouth. It was buddha nature express buddha nature itself. That's why Dogen said, when a water buffalo appears, it can only say, Wong, Wong. That means there's no way to say Water buffalo can only say this thing. That means the buddha culture can only say in this way. This kind of utterance is authentic. So this is buddha nature talking about buddha nature or buddha nature expressing buddha nature. Try to utter the essential meaning of his utterance.

[63:37]

Make an utterance on his utterance. So he's asking us to express the same thing as Obaku did or as Nansen did. And Nansen said, forget for now about the cost of the food and drink. you've had here who is going to pay for those sorrowful standards of yours. Dogen said, you should commit yourself for many lifetimes to probing the meaning of this utterance. And there are several different interpretations of this saying. I mean, in the comment of Dogen, Pat Dogen said is, you should concentrate your mind and study deliberately why it is.

[64:45]

He does not concern himself with the cost of the food and drink. The reason he is so concerned about the straw sandals is because he assumes that In the years of pilgrimage, many pairs of them must have been in love. Some people interpret this as the difference between the cost of food and drink and the cost of solstice. And they think the cost of food and drink is enlightenment, of practice and enlightenment. So your attainment is okay, but to whom we should return the cost of practice? Now you have this kind of clear seeing because of your practice, but while you are practicing, you receive many help from all beings.

[65:54]

How will you return this? Another interpretation, I like that one better, is these two are not two separate things, like enlightenment and practice, but these two are both buddha nature. You know, food and drink and source and that are all necessary things to practice. So both are practice, and practice and enlightenment are one thing. But on one side, we should be concerned that we have to think, and we have to live, we have to control. And on another side, we don't need to be, and we cannot be concerned, we cannot control. So even though this food and drink and soul sound are the same thing, practice and enlightenment.

[67:04]

That is Buddha nature. But one side we have to be concerned. That means we need to think and we need to make distinction and discrimination. And another side, we don't need to be care. That means we don't need to make any discrimination. So one side we have to grasp, another side we have to open our hand. So grasping and ungrasping. These are two sides of practice of Buddha nature. I think that is, to me, how can I say this? This is my discrimination. but I like this better. Anyway, the drawing continues.

[68:08]

Here, one must say, if I couldn't pay for the sandals, I wouldn't put them on to begin with. That means I will walk without sandals. Yeah.

[68:26]

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