Good morning. I spent all day yesterday preparing for this talk today. Ah, so it better be good. No I don't mean that the talk should be good, I mean you better appreciate it, whether it's good or not. Giving these talks, I think, reminds me sometimes of cooking. Most of you know, or many of you, and some of you know better than others.

[01:03]

You know how difficult it is to come up with what to cook for dinner? What are we going to have tonight? Oh, let's go out. I mean it would be nice to think of something to have that, of course, you never had before. I mean that was, you know, special and nice and, you know, that would be renewing and give you a new delight and joy in being alive. So, nice meal, very nourishing. What could it possibly be, right? I mean what haven't you had before? Squid? Octopus? I don't know, you know, that could be, that would really be something new. So, I wanted to remind you again, actually at the beginning of today's talk, I'm not

[02:10]

really trying to tell you something that you've never heard before, I'm not really trying to tell you anything that you don't know already for yourself. So, it's just a little, still, you know, it's a little distillation or preparation or putting something together and offering it to you. And obviously, you know, some people will like it and then some people won't, you know. So, when I was at Tassajara years ago and I was the cook, this was in the late 60s and about a third of the people at Tassajara were serious, serious macrobiotics, you know macrobiotics? I mean they were, it's called Zen macrobiotics and it doesn't really have anything to do

[03:14]

with Zen but, you know, here in America when somebody has a diet they want you to try, they say, why should you do this diet? And the usual answer seems to be, for the mucous' diet or this diet or that diet, it's God's way, it's the natural way, and of course you would want to follow God's way, wouldn't you? And in Japan they just said, well, it's Zen, you see, so to put forth their diet. But still, anyway, people were very serious about macrobiotics, and I mean serious, and this story will give you an example, you see. And this time, I think people who practice this diet nowadays are not as rigid, but in those days you had to eat a lot of grains and you couldn't have any sugar or fruit, and the vegetables had to be cooked, because raw vegetables are too yin, most things are too

[04:16]

yin, and you had to get everything well yang-ized before you eat it, so you'll be a nice, balanced person. And so one day I made the oatmeal as usual for breakfast and I thought I would do something special and nice, and I put raisins in the oatmeal. Now if you're living in a situation like that, most of us live in a situation like that, we've had cereal and rice gruel, and it's the same thing, day after day, and raisins in the oatmeal would be kind of like, wow, raisins in the oatmeal! And we're eating our oatmeal with just sesame salt, I mean it doesn't have sugar or milk or cream or butter. One day, well when I first went to Tassajara we had brown sugar, and for those who didn't

[05:23]

want brown sugar we had honey. And then we had milk, and for those who didn't like milk there was canned milk, or anyway something like this. You know there was about four or five things that we served with the cereal, and one day our Zen teacher Suzuki Rishi gave a talk and he said, he asked us, how can you taste the true spirit of the grain when you put all those things on your cereal? Well that was the end of that. So after that we just had sesame salt in our cereal. This is very macrobiotic, you see. So I put the raisins in the cereal, right, and then we served it, and then, you know sometimes how you can notice, in those days the people who cooked also served, so I'd serve and put it in people's bowls, and there were some people who were absolutely

[06:23]

livid, you know, livid, like in the meditation hall, in spite of how one is advised to accept what comes and receive what's offered and so forth. Some of these people were quite livid, and then afterwards they came running into the kitchen, and they accused me of poisoning them, of attempting to poison them, and poison the whole community by serving raisins in the cereal. So you see, you never know quite what the reaction is going to be. You do your, one does one's best, I, you know, so I'm going to give you a talk and then, you know, you might like it or you might think it's poison. I mean, who knows, you see? Pretty amazing, huh? And I'm afraid I can't give a talk that just everybody says, oh, how wonderful, you know?

[07:27]

So anyway, here goes. And this has all been part of my talk, right? Now we'll go on, okay? So I want to tell you a little bit about the preparation I did all day yesterday, which is that I went on a very long walk and run, and I sat for a long time listening to the wind and the surf, and feeling the sun, and watching the grasses, you know, wave in the wind, and the blue sky, the sky was very blue yesterday, kind of like today. It seemed, you know, like a nice way, a good way to clear my head, my body, and mind to be ready to say something to you today. So this is why I have a kind of a pink nose, you see.

[08:31]

I don't... This is, you know, to go outdoors like that, that is the big meditation hall, you know? This is... What you say that could be big, and then there's this meditation hall, is a small meditation hall. But on the other hand, of course, all meditation halls are the same size, right? Because each of us is the meditation hall. And wherever we are, is our meditation. But still, some places seem to be more conducive to meditation than others. So we set up places like this, and we go for walks. So now, as I talk, I want to ask you to enter your own meditation.

[10:00]

I'm going to tell you a poem. First of all, a poem by Kabir, an Indian poet, a short poem. This poem is about, you know, how we sometimes think about meditation and the spiritual and the meditation hall and what needs to happen there. This is how this poem goes. Friend, please tell me what I can do about this world I hold onto and keep spinning out. I gave up some clothes and wore a robe, but one day I noticed the cloth was well woven, so I bought some burlap. But still, I tossed it elegantly over my left shoulder.

[11:26]

I pulled back my sexual longings only to discover I was angry a lot. I let go of my rage and noticed that I was greedy all day long. I worked hard to dissolve my greed, and now I'm proud of myself. Friend, when the mind wants to cut its ties with this world, it still holds on to one last thing. Kabir says, there are very few who find the way. I think this is, for me, this is a pretty interesting and powerful poem. And it says something about how much we want things to be a certain way, and my mind and

[12:47]

body to be a certain way, my life to be a certain way, for people to talk to me a certain way. And sometimes we call it spiritual. You know, if I can make my mind more the way I want it to be, it must be spiritual. This is an interesting point, you see. So sometimes I think when we look for something spiritual, actually we're not looking so much for the truth. We're looking for a better weapon to force ourself to be more the way we want, or somebody else to be more the way we want. You know, my ex-wife used to say to me, excuse me for mentioning this, you know, if I didn't

[13:49]

behave the way she wanted, she'd say, but you're a Buddhist priest, you should be more compassionate. Do you think so? Maybe so. And I would think, oh yes, I should be, shouldn't I? Yeah, you're right. But it never seemed to work, you know, no matter how hard I tried. It's a little bit like saying, you know, well you're a great cook, you ought to make something that's more entertaining and delicious. So I bring you next a question, you know, the student, the young student asked the Zen teacher, do you know this word dharma?

[14:51]

We say dharma, teaching, or truth, the Buddhist teaching, or the truth of each moment, dharma. You know, what, so the student asked the teacher, what dharma, what dharma should we practice? How should we live? How should we, what dharma should we study? What dharma do we seek? What dharma do we experience? What truth do we attain in order to proceed to enlightenment? And the teacher replied, do you know what the teacher said?

[16:00]

Did the teacher say, give up your sewn clothes and wear a robe? Let go of your anger? Let go of your greed? Give up your pride? Well, this was a Zen teacher, you know, so you get a Zen answer. The teacher said, there is no dharma to practice, and there is no seeking. There's no dharma to be experienced, and there is no attaining. There's no truth to be awakened to, and there is no path which can be cultivated. This is enlightenment. Do you see how different that is from the poem in thinking that the thing to do was

[17:10]

to give up the sewn clothes, get rid of your anger, overcome your greed, perfect yourself in some way? This is why it's called, so we call this the sudden school. This is enlightenment, right here, in your own meditation hall. Sounds pretty ordinary, doesn't it? Did anything change? Does anything need to change then? You know, do you need to be, do you somehow need to perfect yourself in some way to have

[18:17]

the enlightenment, study something, realize something, believe something? This is enlightenment. So, in the same way the Zen teacher Sekito said, mind itself is Buddha, mind, sentient beings, Buddhas, enlightenment, delusion, affliction, these are all different names for the same thing. So, if something arises in your experience, you know, how shall you treat it, how do you treat it? We have seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touch, the feeling of this chair or cushion

[19:32]

we're sitting on, some pressure. We have the air, a little coolness maybe on your nose, and then we have thoughts, feelings, we have frustration, boredom, desire. So, how do you receive it? Is it already the truth or not? Is it something to be valued or not? Is it something you receive with gratitude or not?

[20:41]

You know, how good would it have to be? Like this beautiful day, a beautiful day, and then you say, oh, how grateful I am. That reminds me, you know, I was thinking today, in the spring a young man's heart turns to love, but also it seems like in the spring many people's hearts turn to green gulch. So, how good does your experience have to be before you say, how grateful, I'm filled with gratitude? Or how profound does it have to be before you say, oh, how profound, how special? Do you see? Is it special or not, your ordinary experience? And then, what would it have to be like to be special and valuable, and something you

[21:49]

could feel good about? So, the Sudden School says, however your experience is right now, receive it, receive it as valuable, receive it as special. Understand it as the truth. Or, you know, in more technical language, distinguish the causal connections and forms as immediately entering supreme reality without moving. Do you see? Things as they arise that seem so ordinary, understand them as immediately entering supreme reality, even though they go on happening just the way they ordinarily do. So, I want to talk also today a little more about this in a little different way than

[23:09]

I usually do, and it's partly because the last time I was here, in the question and answer, somebody asked, somebody said, you often talk about body and mind, and your body and mind, our body and mind, what is body? And I, you know, I sort of tend to get a little intimidated, I don't like to get, I don't tend to get too far out about these things, you know, so I say pretty ordinary things when people ask me questions like that. I said, well, I've never had an experience of body that I could distinguish the body from the mind. It seems like every experience of body there's an experience of mind. And then I also said, the Zen teacher Dogen says the true body is the entire universe.

[24:10]

So, naturally or not so naturally, this person said, well, in that case, what is the entire universe? Don't you love it? So, my, you know, I've thought about what is the entire universe sometimes, but you know, I don't know how to say it in a nice, short way. You know, like, just this, bam. Just this is. This is enlightenment. Bam. Take it or leave it. So it's a pretty interesting question.

[25:16]

The entire universe, you know, it's not describable. And what we have is our own experience, our own meditation hall. So, what happens if you look very closely at anything? Do you think you can find out what it is? Do you know what it is? I ask people in my one day sitting sometimes, what is food? So, what happens if you ask what is food, you know, and you eat? Is the food, is food something out there? Is it something in here?

[26:22]

And as soon as we start to describe food, we have, it tastes like, it smells like, it looks like. Yes, we have a lot of sensory experiences, yes? But what is it? So, as soon as something arises, it's not only, it's not really anything out there. It's smelling, seeing, tasting, touching. It's an experience which has no substance. How do we ever get hold of what it is? And as soon as we try to penetrate behind what it looks like, what it tastes like, then we get, you know, new things about what it looks like, what it tastes like.

[27:26]

How do we get beyond sensory experience then? What is it, finally? What is it? No, there's no it, there's only this experience. It's easy then we think, we have an experience and then we think, yes, but something must be there. Something must be there to give this experience. You see how we think? So, when you think like that, is it, is there something actually there or is it just someone thinking there must be something there? Can you tell the difference? Whether there's something there or whether it's just thinking something's there? See? So, yes, we think something must be there. Something must be there, something having substance, having weight, taking up space.

[28:39]

And this way, with the entire universe, we have this moment in experience and then we think, oh, the entire universe, that's very big. That includes everything. But we have our experience right now and then is there anything outside of the experience right now? Oh, well, I think there's the entire universe. I can imagine the entire universe is out there, but what is it that's out there? There's imagining something's out there, something. And this is the same thing is true, you know, for thoughts and feelings. Each moment of experience. Is it, how real is it? So, you see, it's both real and supremely real.

[29:51]

This is what Buddhism says, you know. Yes, it's happening, but not the way you think it is, not the way we think it is. As though it's really happening and real people are having real experience. It sure seems real, doesn't it? How real is it? So, we can pick anything, any one thing. Food. You know, there's a sonnet by Rilke about food.

[30:52]

And I'll share it with you to give you some idea about, you know, what somebody's answer to what is food, what somebody said. Round apple, smooth banana, melon, gooseberry, peach. How all this affluence speaks death and life into the mouth. I sense, observe it in a child's transparent features while she tastes. This comes from far away. What miracle is happening in your mouth instead of words? Discoveries flow out, astonished to be free. Dare to say what apple truly is. This sweetness that feels thick, dark, dense at first,

[31:56]

then exquisitely lifted in your taste, grows clarified, awake and luminous. Double meaning, sunny, earthy, real. Oh, knowledge, pleasure, joy, inexhaustible. Do you see that shift there? From something ordinary to something exquisitely lifted in your taste. So, the more we believe there's something really there, then we think it can't be exquisitely lifted in your taste, you know, if it's really existing. So, I want to bring up one more story for you.

[33:27]

One of my favorite, not story, but just a little quote from Dogen, which I've always liked very much. And I want to introduce it by saying that, you know, Suzuki Roshi one time suggested to me, if you want to see virtue, you have to have a calm mind. If you want to see virtue, you have to have a calm mind. And in a way, what I've been talking about today is the ability or capacity or seeing virtue. It's another way to talk about it. I think this, from Dogen, this is in the Genjo Koan. And he says, if you get in a boat, if a person gets in a boat

[34:30]

and sails out on the ocean and looks around, the ocean looks circular as far as the eye can see. But the ocean isn't round or square. It has infinite features, which we haven't yet realized or noticed. It has infinite features and boundless virtue that we haven't yet experienced. Everything is like this. Although the ocean appears round or square, it has no fixed nature. And you see as far as your eye of practice can see.

[35:37]

The same is true of thoughts and feelings, understanding. You know, what I think about myself, the kind of person I am, I may say to myself, Oh, I'm very shy. I could never go and talk to that person. But am I very shy or did I just tell myself I'm very shy? So do you believe what your mind says when it says that? Are you very shy or not? Well, I just thought I was very shy, yes, that's true. It's true that I thought that. You know, if you put I thought or I thought, I understood,

[36:49]

I imagine, I feel, you see things more clearly then, you know. And then also, if you add at the end, tentatively. Tentatively. So you see the difference between saying, I'm really shy, I couldn't talk to that person, and saying, I think I'm really shy, tentatively. Because that's closer to what just happened, isn't it? You had this thought. I had a thought that I'm shy and I couldn't talk to that person. Yeah, I had that thought. But what does that have to do with the ocean? Being round or square? It just looks round or square, it just looks like a shy person. Right now. With your eye. But that doesn't mean that that's the way it is. From now on. And that you have to do something about it. See?

[37:51]

You see? I mean, do you stop being shy first and then go and talk to the person? Could you talk to that person if you weren't very shy? You see? I'm using a simple example. Because I'm a shy person, you see. I've always been a shy person. And I always will be. So this is seeing virtue. You see how things are and you say, Oh, there's the way it is. But at the same time you remind yourself that's not all there is to it. There are infinite features and boundless virtue

[38:52]

that I don't see right now. But they must be there. So do you see how this means? This is the same thing that is saying there's no truth to be studied. There's no attaining. There's no seeking. There's no truth to be awakened to. And there's no path that can be cultivated. Do you see? There's nothing special that needs to happen. One side is things are exactly as they are. The other side is, yeah, that means there's more to it. And it's boundless and infinite. And then you see we have at that time

[39:58]

much more expansive feeling. And we have much more compassion and warmth and joy. Because we're not trying to produce particular things and not have other things happen. Do you see? We're not trying to get rid of sexuality, get rid of anger, get some of this other stuff. Do you see? So then you have, at this time, there's much more equanimity. I used to wonder why does anybody say, what difference does it make? Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. Do you see? I told that story the last time I talked to you. You know, when I broke the plate, I got very upset.

[40:59]

And when a friend of mine's daughter broke this beautiful crystal wand, she dropped it on the floor, it broke. I didn't care. You know, it's the difference between whether it's mine or not. If it's mine, oh, that's really upsetting. And what about the same for being angry? You know, somebody else can get angry and you forgive them, and then I get angry. No, you shouldn't get angry. Either somebody else gets angry and then you say, oh yeah, people get angry sometimes, don't they? But not me. So if you want to see virtue, remember you need a calm mind. You know, even if you're not calm, you feel no calmness.

[41:49]