I said the other night, one day, that this evening I will give a kind of synthesis of commune spirituality. But then, reflecting about it, I changed my mind a little, for two reasons. to try to give a kind of a doctrinal synthesis is by the very fact twisting a bit of the Facomian approach, which is something which is very simple, very natural, very biblical. There is nothing of the philosophical or theological reflection in the Facomian sources. They just prism to what they live in the ordinary language of the Bible. And then I also realized that To try to give a synthesis would be to repeat to the members of the seminar what I have said to them many, many times. Yeah.

[01:01]

And also, many told me that what they found most useful was when we read together Pacomian writing and commenting them. Then we have the same reality from the source, not in the term of modern synthesis. So I thought of reading with you this evening some parts of the book of Orsiasius, commenting, as I did this morning with the members of the seminar. Orsiasius is the second disciple, second successor of Empacomius, as the superior general of the congregation. And he has expressed in his book in a very clear way, the whole Pacomian approach, very deeply rooted in the Bible. I think I have a number here of quotations in that little book, about 52 or 56 paragraphs.

[02:06]

There are, he quotes, 34 books of the Old Testament, 21 of the New Testament, 566 quotations, direct quotations, fifty-five allusions and twenty-five summaries of text of the scripture. So in a short book like that, just like in St. Bernard's, all his own sentences are built up with text of the Bible. So it's very biblical. At the same time, he gives us all the essential aspects of the Pacomian life. And we have to know also the context in which it was written. After the death of Pacomian, the Auschwitz was the successor and there was, after a few years, a crisis in the congregation. He had not perhaps the same charism as the commune. And the congregation was developing more members, more monasteries, and the monasteries were developing in terms of material possessions also. And people started to, some monasteries, they wanted to

[03:13]

severed themselves, cut themselves away from the congregation, and to develop in their own way, especially in terms of material possession. So, the whole bound of cognonia, which is the essential aspect of high communion life, the unity in love, is going to, is in danger of being broken. So, R.C. just writes that book in which he asks the brother, he pleads the brother to repent from their sense, and also to convert again to this whole idea of the koinonia, of the unity in love, in mutual sharing, according to the ideal of the early church of Jerusalem. So, I have prepared a text before about the synthesis I was thinking of. And just the first paragraph I put there is that the first member, the first element, as you can see, of the Pakomyan Kainonia is God.

[04:15]

That has to be remembered. And it's very important. And it's always present there. And Pakomyan, just before he died, he said, See, I'm going to the Lord who has created us and who has brought us together. If we are together, the growth is God that brought us together. And we will read the text in a few minutes, where the other says God is our father, is our judge, is our king, is our master, and so on. And God is the one who tries us also. All those trials through which we are going are permitted by God. want through them to convert us, that the Theodore comes on that question over and over again. And so let's, and we have different way of getting into contact, personal contact with God. Because the whole life of Pachomius and his disciples is the seeking of the will of God, which is discovered through the life of the community, through the charism of the Superior, and through the conscience also.

[05:27]

This afternoon with the group we spoke very much about obedience, the whole concept of obedience in the Pachomian circle. And we spoke about the conscience, and then after that I I went to my room and I read a few paragraphs and I discovered a few paragraphs extremely interesting about the role of conscience in the life. It's considered as an immediate contact with God. And when somebody has perceived something as the will of God through his conscience, it is as binding for him as the word of God in the scripture or from the superior. And we have two or three examples I have found of persons who, after having perceived an inspiration from God to do this thing or that thing, then they decided not to do it. But then they consider that they have committed a sin, and then they come to the common synopsis to accuse themselves, not of having done something against the rule,

[06:33]

but of having refused by listeners to do a thing that they had perceived in their conscience as the will of God. So let's read some of those texts. We'll come back to many of those themes. The few paragraphs I have chosen are the last one, the five or six or seven last ones of the book, in which there is a kind of summary of the whole spirituality contained in that book. And the idea that comes more often is the idea of return to the Lord, return to the perfection, return to the fervor that you have lost. Just one minute. Let's begin with Paragash 42. Those who have the text can follow it. For this reason, let us avoid the friendship of the world, the friendship with the reality of the world.

[07:43]

We have renounced the world and the meaning of the world is the same thing as in St. John. So we have renounced that life of the world, So let us avoid the friendship with it. So that we may deserve to hear in the evening weeping will abide, in the morning joy. We know that we are in a period of trial. The congregation is in a period of trial. So it's a period of weeping. But we know that in the morning joy will come. So we're mentioning today how we don't find very often joy mentioned in the Pakomyan text, but it is always there. And it is a It's a joy which is perhaps not so enthusiastic as we will find in some authors of the Middle Age. We have to take into account also the socio-cultural situation. And those people were poor peasants living in a poor country in a time of oppression by the Roman Empire. And so most people cannot be joyful in the same way as somebody will be in a very affluent country in a time of peace and progress.

[08:50]

I think God adapts his own grace, even the grace of contemplation, to the time and the place where people live. In a period of social injustice, for example, our joy cannot be the same in a period of full peace and justice. The Lord has listened and has been merciful to me. You have cut off my sackcloth and girded me with happiness. This is a quotation of Psalm 29. And then he said, we have trials, but this is not new. All the saints have gone through that. What saint has not trod the way of this world in weeping and sadness? And what saint, then he is referring to Nebuchadnezzar. He has gone through difficulties also. I mentioned the other night how his first trial, his first try at building a community was a failure. He has gone through weeping and sadness. Then there is a quotation of Jeremiah.

[09:53]

I have not sat in the assembly of the jesters, but I quaked at the sight of your hand. I used to sit alone because I was filled with bitterness. David also wrote, like one sobbing and sorrowing, I was bent down. So we, those are the sons of the prophet, we, what do we do? We stepping out in their steps. The monastic life is a life according to a tradition, according to the example of people who have lived that experience before us. So we are trying to walk in the steps of those who have walked in the steps of Jesus. So we, setting out in their steps, know that our safety is in the time of trials. So the monk is the one who has renounced the security. That's the life, the spirituality of the desert. It's the life in which we accept insecurity. The desert for the monks, the early monks, is basically that.

[10:59]

It's not so much a place where they have solitude. They can find solitude everywhere. But it's the place where you put yourself in a situation where you are hopeless. There is nobody to defend you, nobody to give you food, nobody to give you thirst. And then it's a situation in which you have to count on God alone. The way God has formed his own people in the Old Testament, through what they are in a situation where he could not count on anybody, anything else than God. And when the they are arriving in the commerce land they are supposed to continue to count only on God but they have not learned the lesson and they try to count on Egypt against Babylon and Babylon against Egypt and then Jeremiah says my people are committed to sin they have abandoned me the fountain of living water and they have dug for themselves cisterns that cannot hold water so that might have abandoned the security of the world

[12:03]

but they are always tempted to build up their own security again. It began with that time. So our real safety is in the time of trial, when we can count only on God. May the promise of the Prophet be fulfilled. He does not abandon forever those who are in strife. If therefore trouble has its time, it will not be forever. We sow in tears, but we reap in joy. For there is a joy but there is also the tears. That's normal life. If there is unhappiness, it's not normal. If there is only tears, it's not normal either. We know that the Lord will deliver his worshippers without fail. His worshippers. Those whose life is a worship. This afternoon we met in one text, or this morning, the expression Opus Dei. Opus Dei for the early monastic writing was the whole monastic life.

[13:06]

And then because it was so characteristic of the whole monastic life, Benedict took it as a technical term for the divine office. But before Benedict, Augustine was the whole life. That means that the whole life is worship. Then there is the beautiful text, the Lord is our father, the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our princeps, ruler, master, the Lord is our king. uh... sent uh... rc issues in the beginning of his book is speaking very much to the superior remind them of their role of the responsibility and just like benedictine remind them that uh... they will have to to give a count to uh... the judgment of god but it is the door who is our judge and he is a father in the same time there is uh... there's not only fear, there is confidence because our judge is our father and he's our king. The Lord himself will save us. So he's our judge, but he will save us.

[14:08]

All those are quotations from Isaiah. If we neglect his precepts, we will remain in strife, in angustia, in distress. He himself says, those who follow me will possess the lamb and will inherit my holy mountain. We shall have this if we fulfill his law. and listen to what is said. To seek God, to seek the will of God is to fulfill the whole, the omnipotent attendee. To be perfect is to try to live according to the totality of the gospel. So monastic life is not a life according to to one or a few special parts of the Gospel, is to live the whole Gospel. Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. And so that's the life which is always tending towards something more, because we can never be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect.

[15:10]

It can always be improved till we are in Heaven. Make clean your ways in His sight. Again, take the stumbling block from the way of my people. In another place, cast the scoffer out from the assembly, and this troll will go with him." When we read the rules that Pakom used for his life, we don't find much in detail about contemplation, about prayer. much less than, for example, in Cheshire or other big areas, at least in Brazil. And at first sight, we may have the impression that prayer was not so important for them. But it was really important. But just, it was situated in the whole of monastic life, and with the same balance as in the Scripture. In the New Testament, you don't find prayer mentioned many, many times. but this is everywhere. So the prayer and the contemplation for Pachomius is just a dimension of all the aspects of life.

[16:16]

You pray all the time in doing everything. And contemplation, as I mentioned this morning, is the biblical conception of contemplation, which consists in meeting God in everything you do, and seeing God in all the persons you meet, especially in your brother. Serving your brother is a form of contemplation. So if we pass a few paragraphs, just at the end of that page, paragraph 43, my eyes were upon the fetters of the earth in order that I might make them sit with me. That gives the meaning of the next paragraph. Then let us imitate the works of all those, meaning the saints. Let's imitate their works, that there may be peace and justice in our days. uh... here auspices and the other arm before that they were complaining that because we have to abandon the unity uh... and the fraternity of the company of the communion then there is there is division among us during the time of by communist it was east of the good old part of the other fit but uh... in now that that these are going away but this uh... if we imitate the works if we if we act as our fathers did

[17:36]

of the sanctum, then may be peace and justice in our day. And so that what we read happens elsewhere, may not happen to us. Thorns and brothers will spring up from the land of my people. Let us rather cultivate a fresh field and not plant thorns in it. So the fresh field is the field of our soul, the field of our community, in which the fruit of the Spirit may grow. And the fruit of the Spirit grow when the Word of God, as a seed, is put into it. The whole abscissus of Sacrament Spiritualité consists in cultivating those truths of the Spirit, all the virtues that we have received in the time of our baptism. and be careful that the devil will not pluck out some of those fruits and put instead his own fruit, the fruit of evil. So if we go to the desert, it's to face that struggle between the spirit of God and the spirit of evil.

[18:45]

Christ has faced that struggle. And when the holy monks go to the desert, it is not specifically to go there and to find kind of very peaceful, serene contemplation, unlike quoting the text of Hosea, that I will bring her to the desert and speak to her heart, or to his heart. If they go to the desert, it's to fight against the power of evil, because in the biblical mentality, the desert is the place where is the kingdom of evil. And so the struggle that has begun between Christ and the force of evil, we have to continue it with Christ. And it is going to the desert. And because when we go to the desert, we are faced with ourselves. And it is there that the desert is. It is in ourselves. And when we are alone, the first one we meet is not God, it's ourselves. And in ourselves is the power of the devil, as is the spirit of God.

[19:50]

And it is when we have overcome the power of evil with Christ, that then by accomplishing the commandment, we are loved by God, and God comes and makes His dwelling in us. The desert or the monastery is a place of struggle against the power of evil. So when we have kept what is commanded us, we will have shown that we love God. In another place, in divine scripture, this is given as testimony. He will listen to my commands and does them. He is the one who loves me. He who loves me is loved by my father and I will love him and my father and I will come and make our abode with him, and I will reveal myself to him. You are my friends if you do what I command you." So the old insistence or the fact that he insists so much on the rule has to be seen in that context, that to accomplish the rule is an attitude of love, and that love brings God in us.

[20:57]

But that conception of obedience, of the rule as just a dimension of love, is so pure and so difficult to understand that it is rapidly lost. And if we follow the evolution of the different versions of the life, we see in some narratives an evolution in the conception of obedience. Evolution which is very rapid. I have in mind one narrative When the brothers had spoken during their work, they were supposed to work in silence. Not because silence was a form of penance. Because when they worked, they were supposed to meditate the scripture. Meditate the scripture means to recite the scripture by heart. When they came to the monastery, they had to learn by heart. at least the New Testament and the Psalter, to begin with, so that they had always some part of the Scripture that they could meditate with.

[21:59]

So during their work they did that too. And so one day the monks were working in the bakery, and that was a very special work. There was a whole part of the rule which is about the work in the bakery. The reason is that it was a very special work. It was done once a year. So all the brothers of one monastery gathered and they worked very hard for a few days and they baked all the bread for the whole year. And it was so hard that they said they had to put it in water during three days before eating it. It was not the food cage. And so anyway, the brothers were working at the bakery and under the direction of Theodore, who was the assistant of Pachomius. And brothers chatted together instead of reciting the scripture. And Pachomius knew that. And then he called Theodore.

[23:01]

And he blamed, according to the early version, he blamed the other very severely. And he said, you are responsible for the brothers. If, instead of reciting the scripture, they lost their time chatting, you are responsible and you have to make penance. That's the first version. The idea is that the brothers were supposed to be reciting the scripture. And if they did not do that, and you are their superior, you are responsible. Then the second version is that Pachomius still blamed Theodore. And he said, why did you not see that the brothers will respect the rule? If that rule has been given to them, it's for the good of their soul. And so then the idea of observing the rule comes in. And the insistence is no longer on meditating the scripture, which was the meaning of the rule, but on observing the rule. And the third version, Pachomius doesn't blame Theodore and he has to respect the authority of his assistant.

[24:11]

And he says to Theodore, go and tell the brothers that if those rules have been given to them, they shall know that it is for the good of their soul and they shall obey. And then there is another version later on which says, don't they know that what is told to them through the rule is the will of God? God is speaking through, it is, I don't remember exactly, but the meaning is that when I give them a rule, God is speaking to them through me. You see the evolution of the conception of obedience. We can follow it in many different narratives like that. The early conception is that it's an expression of love, and if we love, God comes and lives in us. Let us take to ourselves these many lessons. Let us be converted to the Lord, our God, and let us say to Him, You are able to forgive sins so that we may receive good things, returning to You the fruit of our lips.

[25:20]

And then next paragraph, oh that we might be sorry for our mistakes and neglect. So we have to be sorry to repent from our sins if we want God to give us the grace of metanoia, conversion of heart, which is a pure gift from God. And we have to repent from our negligence, which is the beginning of all the sins, and being converted being converted, that means that receiving the conversion of the grace, we may say, the biblical term, our soul will not save us. We shall not mount horses, nor yet will we say, our gods are the work of our hands. The god within you will have pity on the people. The god within you. God is within us, and there that we have to meet him. I shall make safe my dear dwelling. Again he says, I will love them openly. and turn aside my anger from that."

[26:24]

God is not only the Savior of God, He is the One who loves. And He loves even the sinners. And He is showing His love by giving them the conversion. I will be like the dew. Israel will flourish as the lily and send out its fruits like Lebanon. Israel is throughout the book the image of the community, of the congregation, of the Canaanite. So Israel again will flourish and the community again will flourish like the lily and send out its fruits like Lebanon. His branches will go out. They will be like the foot of others, and his others like that of incense. They will return, and each one will sit in his own tent. They will live and be strengthened with grain." The book is full of reproach, but at the same time full of hope, because God is there. Let us return to the Lord so that he can say to us, I shall remember their wickedness and sins no longer.

[27:35]

When God gives the grace of cognizance of metanoia, our sins, our wickedness, he does not remember any longer. He does not exist any longer. Let us not abandon the law of God, which our Father received and handed on to us. Because the law that has been given to us is an expression of the law of God that has been received by Pakomil. This way of life of the Koinonia, which is the incarnation of the law of God in the concrete situation in which they live. So that has been a gift from God to Pakomil and to all the members through Fagomius has been handed on to us by Fagomius. Let us not think lightly of his warnings, lest, grieved because of us, we may say, how dull has the gold become, how changed the good silver, the sacred stones are pulled out at the head of every street.

[28:40]

After the many labors of our father, which he undertook for our well-being, himself giving an example of virtue and glorying about us to the saints, these are my sons and my people. It's very charming to see that a communist in heaven is proud of his disciples, supposed to be proud of his disciples, and say to the other saints, those are my sons and my people. There is a conception that the bounds of love that the bounds of unity that have united the members of the Communion together here below continue in heaven and for example there is a vision in which someone said that before the death of Pachomius Saint Paul was supposed to gather all the members of the congregation that died before Pachomius in order to give them to Pachomius when he arrived in heaven That would be his family.

[29:42]

That's beautiful that the bound that we have established here below in our community, they are bound forever. And so we will be a community. And so Paganius was waiting for him there. So they were, those who died before him, were under the juridic channel of St. Paul for a while. And St. Paul will hand them over to Paganius. My sons will not refuse me after witness of this crime. May we not lose the faith of a good conscience and spoil the garments with which he has clothed us. Introduced by him into the stadium that we may fight legally, may we not be overcome by our enemy. So the stadium, that's the Koinonia in the desert in Solitude, that's been the place in which we have been introduced by Facomio to fight against the evil. And so it will be very sad if we are overcome by the enemy. We will be overcome by the enemy if we are unfaithful to the luck that we have received.

[30:49]

When we come to the time of our death, may we not be made enemies of our father, because we have been slaving for treasures, so that we who ought by fasting and mortification of the flesh to have acquired liberty of spirit, that's the whole meaning of the purification of art. same thing, liberty of spirit, meaning of fasting and mortification, is to default us to that freedom, to that liberty of spirit, a purity of heart, purity of conscience. So, we have surrendered ourselves to carnal pleasures, more beautiful garments and softer carcasses, thus not only perishing ourselves but even leading to ruin others who could have profited by our example. So, if after having renounced so many things, now we are, as some of the members were at the time of CSO's right, we are trying to get more beautiful government, more ships, some managers were building ships for themselves, and so on, so on, then we are just fooling ourselves.

[31:59]

We have renounced too many things and we will not get what we are supposed to receive as a reward. Then we could go on to paragraph 47. May we then be imitators of the saints. Let us not forget the instructions which our father taught us while you are still alive. Here's the one where. It pointed us to the life of Canonia, so let us be faithful to what he taught us. Let us not extinguish the burning lamp which he placed above our head. The quotation of Luke 8.16, that if you light a lamp, it's not to put it under the bed, but to put it on the place where it can be useful. So that lamp has been put by Pachomius above our head. Let us not extinguish it. and kindled at whose light, let us of this world remember that through his zeal, God received us into his own family.

[33:06]

We have been received into the family of God, and by being received into a country, a church, which was the church of the monastery, for many months, as I mentioned the other night. It was, at the same time, being introduced into the whole church, into Christianity, because they were baptized when they entered the monastery. But even for others, the concrete local church to which they belong is a monastery. And that monastery is the family of God. So through the zeal of Pachomius, we have been received into the family of God. God received us into his own family, giving shelter to strangers. Strangers probably are those who did not belong to the people of God, who were pagans before they came. Offering a quiet harbour to those caught in the whirlpool of the sea, those who were in the temptations of the world, giving bread to the hungry, shade in the heat, clothing in the candle.

[34:08]

So all our spiritual needs, God has answered that by receiving us into his family, the family of the Cognonia. He told the spiritual principle to the unfilled Pachomius. He is surrounded with chastity, those subject to vice. And this is very proper to Pachomius. Everybody knows that at that time in Egypt the advice of almost actually the water from the front and that was one of the temptation against which the uh... the monastic fathers had to work to fight all the time and most of the uh... i think fathers were extremely severe will reject uh... most of the uh... the novice to work on uh... being in the habit of vice but back on this you will receive them and you will uh... fight with them to bring them back to her to and there are some beautiful thanks example uh... one day one the brothers uh... bring back some notices from a sundry a and one of them uh... i promise not to lose uh... it's clear-sightedness that uh... he has been in the same that is you and at first it says why did you bring him here it doesn't belong here

[35:29]

But then the brother insists to stay and trusts him to one of the father and says, this one needs someone who will take care of him day and night, to take him away from the grip of the devil. And I am too overburdened by the need of the congregation, so you will take care of him. He confided him to an elder, and the elder will really save him money. He will buy him a few months later as an accomplishment. So Mekongus was a very understanding and a really good master to transform the souls. He united those at a distance to himself, even those who were fighting against him, even those who were his enemies. Let us not forget such goodness since it is dead, and the benefits of immortality, turning judgment into madness, and the fruit of justice into bitterness.

[36:39]

And it be said against us, Judge between me and my vineyard. That curse which follows the word of the prophet, and which we ought with all zeal to flee and avoid, may come upon us who are following the manner of life of those who persecute us in the law. Fathers, as well as fathers, who, renouncing the world and with faultless steps journeying unto the Lord, are now in possession of His inheritance. He is speaking about the fathers who have died, and the expression is beautiful. They have journeyed unto the Lord. The life in the monastery is a journey. That's when we arrive at the monastery. It's not the end of the journey, it's just the beginning. And we come there to journey discovering day after day the will of God. And then we may arrive at the end in the possession of His inheritance, which I fear we may lose by our idleness. After we have been called to freedom and brought together from various localities as one people of God,

[37:51]

what have been called to is freedom and we have been called from various localities, that means from all forms of life some were christian, some were pagan, some had been monks before in other communities, some came from the world, some had been clerics and so on but we have been called into one people, one community then let us not permit that to happen, as it was written, I shall take one from the people and two from the family and shall lead them into Zion. And I shall give you shepherds according to my heart, who will feed you with dark rain. Let us not loosen the bounds of charity, lest it be said of us, a son glorifies his father and a servant his master. We have been bound into but it made a community into a community of charity. And let us not loosen the bond of charity, because then all the kognonia, the congregation is no longer of any use.

[39:01]

And the reason of being together is to incarnate, to give a concrete expression to our love. And so, number 49, Let us scrutinize our ways and determine our steps, continuous awareness of where we are at. And let us follow the order of wisdom, always hiding our words in our hearts. The wisdom is the word of God. Wisdom is always hiding a word in our heart. We have to discover those words there. God is speaking to us in our heart. And even when we read the scripture, scripture is just a means to reach the Word of God, which is hidden in our heart. That we may be spotless, walking in the law of the Lord. Let not the frailty of the body, nor the labor of the time, frighten us.

[40:02]

Where are our fathers and the prophets? Just as it is written, they are living in eternity, are they not? Take my words and my ordinance, which I gave in my spirit to my servants, the prophets who were with your father. Let us feel the unspeakable compassion of God, who even today exhorts us to penance. So the exhortation to penance is not simply a kind of threatening them with the the image of hell, of the punishment and so on. But God is exhorting us to penance. Why? Because of his unthinkable compassion, because he loves us. And so, shall he who falls not rise, or the one who has turned away not return? Why have my people turned away with control aversion? They have continued in their enjoyment and have not wished to return.

[41:06]

If we will return to Him, He will build us up with His Spirit. So it is with His Spirit which is in us that God will build us up. According to what is written, the Lord built up Jerusalem. He is gathering the dispersed of Israel. That continuous or continual appeal to conversion is not proper only to RCA Jews. There he is doing it in the context of a difficult situation. But the whole monastic life is conceived by communists and the disciples as a conversion. It's a life of conversion. Because since the first sin, we are all sinners. And we have the choice between two ways, the way of conversion or the way of sin. If we don't choose the way of sin, the only way that we are is the way of conversion from sin, because we are all sinners. And that's the reason why monastic life is very often called the way of conversion.

[42:12]

And there is a beautiful text about Tacomius, which is in a short fragment, that has not been integrated into the standard of life, probably because it was not considered edifying enough. But that was discovered a few years ago by Father Draghe, or Canon Draghe. published part. And this text goes back to the very early beginning of the community of Pakomians. I think I told you that here a few years ago when I spoke about the liturgy in the Pakomian community, but I will say it again, beautiful. One day, two brothers had an argument, and one brother gave a slap, you see? Gave a slap to his brother. And the other one, he forgot that he was supposed to present the other cheek.

[43:14]

And so instead of presenting the other cheek, he presented his own hand. And so the two brothers were brought to Bacomia. who was a young superior at that time and very severe and so he decided to expel the first one from the monastery and to excommunicate the second one for three weeks I guess and so at that time and this is a very very classical example in the old monastery at that time there was an old monk there And the old monk said, I am a sinner too. So if Pakomius expels that brother because he is a sinner, I go. And if anybody is without sin, he may remain with Pakomius. And everybody lived. And so Phagomius runs after them and brings them back.

[44:17]

And then there is a kind of ceremony of reconciliation. And then after that reconciliation, Phagomius stays alone in the chapel. And then a lot of, many texts on the scripture come to his mind. And I don't remember all the books, especially the one of the potter. to forgive to others if we want to be forgiven. And then he said, well, if the thieves, the adulterers and so on, all the sinners come to the monastery to do penance, what right do I have to expel them because they are sinners? They came precisely to make penance. does not mean that all the members of the Pacaman community were great sinners. But that shows very well how we consider mankind as a life of continual conversion. And to strive towards perfection, to try to become perfect, as our father Ahmed is perfect, is to try to convert oneself continually.

[45:30]

They are the two facets of the same reality. But I think that End of side 2

[45:36]

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