Unknown Date, Serial 00301, Side B

00:00
00:00
Audio loading...

Welcome! You can log in or create an account to save favorites, edit keywords, transcripts, and more.

Serial: 
MS-00301B

AI Suggested Keywords:

Description: 

Talks at Mt. Saviour

AI Summary: 

-

Is This AI Summary Helpful?
Your vote will be used to help train our summarizer!
Photos: 
AI Vision Notes: 

AI Vision - Possible Values from Photos:

Side: A
Speaker: Fr. Charles Dumont
Possible Title: St. Bernard on Humility, St. Aelred on Charity
Additional text: 75.2, Japan, Compact Cassette, D C90 TDK, Dum-70

Side: B
Speaker: Fr. Charles Dumont
Possible Title: St. Alred on Charity
Additional text: III, IV, Japan, Compact Cassette, D C90 TDK, Dum-70

@AI-Vision_v002

Notes: 

Exact Dates Unknown

Transcript: 

Although there may be a clear distinction in this threefold love, there is nevertheless a wonderful kind of connection between them. It is a very important point, and Saint Hilariet stresses it much more than Saint Bernard does. There is a clear distinction, but there is a wonderful kind of connection between them, such that each one is found in all of them, and all of them in each one individually. Neither is it possible to have one without the others, and if one of them should weaken, the other two also withdraw. For he does not love himself who neither loves his neighbor nor God, Now, does he love his neighbor as himself who does not love himself? He who does not love his neighbor is sure not to love God as John said.

[01:00]

So, this is extremely important and you can certainly comment on this with all discovery or so-called discoveries of modern psychology. You cannot love people if you don't love yourself. Because if you're content really or despair of yourself, how can you trust another man? And reversely, it's the love of your friend who very often causes that you love yourself. A French philosopher, moralist rather, called Bonnard said, Our friends give us the courage to be yourself, which is really very, very deep. And also, you have to be somehow free and happy of what you are, of men, in order to love somebody else.

[02:08]

Again, based on the theory of Saint Bernard, the like likes the like, and the like understands the like, and is understood by the like. So this is very important and very modern too. Now, there's always almost a game to know which one precedes the other. Are we to start with loving people, or self, or God? It has been almost a game for the medievals. They like very much this sort of thing. There's one sermon of El Red, where he put a question to his monks, he said, how was it that Jesus loved more John, and he was more loved by Peter. So, problem. I forgot, although he has a way of explaining it. It's a whole sermon.

[03:11]

They were very psychologists, they were trying to find these nuances. Anyway, what could say, page 76, One could say that love of one's neighbor precedes the love of God, and that the love of self precedes the love of one's neighbor. That's how St. Bernard starts. To be humble. In order to understand the other, when you understand other people, your neighbor, you begin to have a more loving heart, a wider heart, more capacity to the love of the infinite love with God. What I am saying is that it proceeds chronologically, but not in dignity, of course. So you have to start chronologically by loving yourself. It comes before that perfect love of which it is written, you shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. But if not its fullness, at least a certain portion of this love must necessarily precede the love of self and the love of one's neighbor.

[04:20]

Without it, each one of these loves is dead and therefore does not exist. In fact, it seems to me that the love of God is like the soul of the other loves. It alone lives fully in itself, and through its presence bestows the essence of life to the others, while through its absence it brings on death. This text has been extremely badly translated. I'm sorry to have it printed here, but it's been given... Translation was... It's a very modern, very recent translation, made by Pierre Fortin, an ex-novice or an ex-postulant of Spencer. Fortunately, these men stopped translating or trying to translate, because, you know, to translate Cistercian text, it's not an It's not enough to know Latin or English, you have also to know something of what it's all about.

[05:23]

So, unfortunately this text, and I didn't notice it before reading the text, Therefore, so that a man might love himself, he begins in this love of God. That's the first step, you have to love himself. Now, and then secondly, the second step again, he loves his neighbor by which his heart grows wider and opens to the divine. The text used, the Latin text, is Capaciori Codamodo Sinu. Sinus is bosom. That's why he put bosom everywhere, a spacious bosom. I remember the first time I noticed this wrong translation.

[06:26]

I was just so much concerned and completely In the text, and I repeat, spacious, bosom, bosom, it's not bosom, it should be something else. I realize I have 12 nuns in front of me. Poor, I'll get embarrassed. Anyway, the spacious sinew is certainly hard. And the Heidi is the same as St. Bernard would say, more capacity. It's a training of the heart. It's training of the heart or the Heidi of the skin, which will come again in Eloret, widely, in order to be capable of loving God, who is the infinite. So, his heart grows wider and opens to the divine.

[07:27]

And then, his heart, bursting into this divine flame, may in a wonderful way… No, his heart may in a wonderful way absorb other… His heart bursting into this divine flame, like so many… may in a wonderful way absorb other loves Like so many sparks into its fullness. This is the third degree or the third step where the fullness of the love of God, fullness of the fire, absorbs the love of self and the love of others in itself. Harvesting all the love of the soul into that sublime and ineffable good, full stop. Now he neither loves himself nor his neighbor, unless it be the measure by which one, each one, himself or neighbor, breaking loose from himself, is carried over into God.

[08:37]

It's a very beautiful doctrine again, which Elred, in his way, is more human, so to speak, than St. Bernard's. And Bernard would just stop at that. His love of God just absorbs everything and then you are carried into God and what? And you are completely absorbed in his love. But he says that if you break laws of yourself, deficient as sea, if you are not trying to keep your own your own self, or your own love for yourself, or your own happiness for yourself, and if others do the same, well, you find again yourself and the love of others in this fullness of God, if it is certainly true, probably. Yes, it is. But you have to be completely detached from this love of self. That's the same thing as the fourth degree of Sanberna, when you love yourself only for God.

[09:39]

It's very difficult, very rare, but it's the ideal and the goal, and that's probably, yes, certainly what will happen in our beatitude in heaven. Now, that is probably carried over to God, and for the sisters from Rosenbernaf, Elredo Rivo, the problem is always, when? And there, of course, ambiguity. And the ambiguity is from the very fact of the nature of the same. One, well, from time to time, here below, we can have a glimpse of that, a taste, in many ways, which I don't describe. I don't speak much of describing mystical ecstasies and states and vision and all that. They know it exists, they have the experience, but as St. Bernard says, or even more, in a little review, I'm speaking to community.

[10:42]

And I speak to the community of what is common, for what I receive in common, the common teaching. And I don't want to speak more of special, particular, personal experiences, because it is very difficult to speak among these And when you start to speak about this, well, you don't say anything. I was hearing in community lately some modern author speaking about this, that should you wish mystical grace, say, well, you can wish them. If they don't come, well, don't worry and all that. What's the use then? You see, it's free and you have not to think much about these things. And then I say, if it doesn't come in this world, don't worry, it will come in the next one. So, better to be free of this concern. And here, when he then evokes this perfect state of liberation, mystical grace, or heaven, which is very much connected, since all spiritual life is eschatological, they always come down and introduce meanwhile.

[12:04]

Meanwhile is a very important word. Meanwhile is interim. Interim means this life. We are in an interim. From creation to beatitude, we are between the two and it's an interim. It's passing through an interim. Meanwhile, these three layers are conceived by one another, are nourished by one another, are kindled by one another, and finally are all perfected together. This is a very important kind of doctrine of the Red. You will not find that so clearly expressed in St. Bernard. This, however, happens in a marvelous and ineffable way, so that although these three layers are all possessed together, and indeed it cannot be otherwise, it exists on that. You cannot love yourself if you don't love God, if you don't love your neighbor, and so on.

[13:06]

Now that rest, that joy, may be felt in the purity of one's own conscience, that's the first degree. Now it may be found in the sweetness of bodily love. Now it may be obtained more fully in the completion of God. It is in fact just like some king who has different storerooms for aromatic spices. very much used example in St. Bernard because it was aromatic spices were very rare coming from the Near East and in the Canticle they have also these spices. He goes now into this one, now into that one and he's impregnated with the perfume now of this one, now of that one. So the soul Maintaining within the enclosure of its conscience some storehouses filled with spiritual riches, it walks now into this one, now into that one, and weighs the stuff of its joy in different ways according to the difference of the treasure."

[14:11]

Now he is describing these three steps. Now the first step is the peace of conscience, which is another way of expressing the state of conversion or humility of Saint Bernard, knowledge of self. Here it's taking a way of peace, experience of peace. The text I'm going to read now is paragraph six. I'm sometimes taught to read that in a community and say this is a beautiful Zen text or yoga or Bhagavad Gita or something. to see what they would see. It's wonderful. It's certainly a text which could be put in an anthology of this kind of experience of peace, joy, intimate self, completely free. When a man withdraws from exterior commotion into the secrecy of his soul and closes the door on the crowds of noisy vanity all around,

[15:20]

He surveys his interior treasures. There, he finds nothing to disturb, nothing disordered, nothing to torment, nothing to worry him. Rather, everything is pleasant, everything in harmony, everything peaceful, everything tranquil. And just like the father of a well-behaved, peaceful family, He smiles kindly over the entire crowd of thoughts, words, and deeds in his soul. This gives rise to a wonderful sense of security. From security comes a wonderful joyfulness. From this joyfulness a sort of exultation which births forth the more devotedly in praise of God, the more clearly a man understands that whatever good he notices in himself is the gift of God.

[16:24]

It's very beautiful. Take the thing and see that this praise of God which bursts forth is the jubilus, the jubilus of the hallelujah, the Gregorian chant. And also the last few words are very important which distinguish, I think, the experience of peace, interior peace and security and joy from non-Christian experience. He notices in himself or whatever good he notices in himself is the gift of God. It's very important that it's the grace. That's very typically Christian. So this is the seventh day, and he says, well, that's the result of the good words which precede. Purity of conscience is born from good words, and this is the norm for judging love of self.

[17:26]

For the man who works and loves iniquity does not really love, but hates his own soul. Just so, the man who loves and works justice does not hate, but loves his own soul. which is the equivalent of the truth of Saint Bernard. Truth about yourself is really loving yourself. It's no use to fool yourself and to be in error. It's a false love of yourself. To love yourself truly, you have to be sincere and be clear about what you are, what you can have, what God gives you, and et cetera. Then he developed a bit the second step and here translation is even more deficient. First of all, our love is of its natural ordering directed to those who are bound to us by family ties.

[18:32]

He will develop that much more later on in the treatise. How we have to love each particular people around us. He has a very amusing example and at the end of his treatise on love of God, on Bureau of Charity, he says, God wants us to love everybody and We have to be capable of loving even our enemies. That is the commandment of the law. But obviously we cannot love everybody the same way. That's true and that's human. And therefore, you see, he takes the comparison of the Ark of Noah where God wanted all the animals to be there and to be saved. So our heart is kind of a hark of Noah, it's a very classical image.

[19:33]

Everybody has to be there to be saved by us, by our charity. Obviously not everybody has to be in the same place. And so the snakes are on the bottom. and gradually go a bit higher, classified people. And the birds, of course, who are the spiritual people, because they have wings at the top, and Jesus there near us in the center of the ship. So it is using pretty well written, this sense of humor. No, first of all, you have to love our family, that is part of our human nature. Now, are we to think that this is a contradiction of our Lord's words, that when you say you have hate, we shall go into this later.

[20:35]

I will make a lot of distinction later on. Then the next sentence is completely mistranslated. We know that there are some people who are more savage than beasts, do not even love their own family. However, those who possess a glimmer of love for their own are already moving toward the spiritual Sabbath. It's very interesting to see that. Even if you have—it's not in the text, they just translate the next sentence, which is mistranslated. See, even people who have this charity or this love for their own family, even a glimmer, even a spark of love, are already moving

[21:36]

toward the spiritual Sabbath. It's typical of the Cistercian approach. Any kind of love, any spark of love which can be discernible in human beings is already on the way. And we shall see the reason for that in the doctrine of the image of God, image and likeness of God in man. Any love is already on the way. And therefore, God gives a commandment of what is already in our nature. And then we come to the spiritual love of our friends and of those to whom we are connected through ties of duty. It's important to see that all these doctrines are always directed to monks, to monastic life. It's very important to know that because in the 12th century,

[22:38]

Well, there were only monks, and lay people were saved, well, through the prayers and alms they were giving to monastery. Only in monastery you could save your soul, especially in Cistercian monasteries. And nowadays, sometimes you think that it's the opposite. Anyway, when they were speaking, in this kind of treatise and they always directed the doctrine to monks. It's very important to see that. It means that Kenrapia played many sequences of life, but for them it's monks. So when I speak of friends, it's friends in the community. When I speak of ties of duty, it's a connection of duty in the community. relation, what they call socialist, that's time of duty in the community and exceptionally with other people.

[23:41]

By this, we progress. See, by this love of our friend and of those we are committed with or through times of duty, we progress in love And the heart is further expanded. It's the same doctrine again. But even this is no greater than the justice of Pharisees who loved their friend and hated their enemy. Nonetheless, the natural law impels us to love our relatives, and grace causes us to love our friend. That is not much more than what the pagans do, the publicans. In order now, in order then that our affection should grow wider, we embrace also those who

[24:54]

submit themselves to the same yoke of monastic profession, he says. The yoke of profession, which is we love all the members of our community or all those who are monks. And that is in order that our affection should grow wider. It's always the same doctrines, you see. Then you have a beautiful passage there on the same example of the skin or the oil which is taken from the psalm of Aaron who has anointed, you know, the whole hand on his beard and the skirts of his clothing and so on, which is where your heart is, how happy it is to be together, something like that. And the example is taken from the, again, from the unction, Christ.

[25:58]

Again, the translation is very bad. You see, we are Christ. Christ means unction. And he say, abunctu uncti, from the anointed, anointed, from by the anointed, we are also anointed, since we are Christian. And he then quote, Christian because of Christ, the famous passage of of the Acts of the Apostles where Christians were called first Christians in Antioch because of Christ. Christiani because Christ means that we'll see the unction, and disunction is love, you see. And by disunction, We are gathering our fellow men to our hearts in a, again, laxioricinus recipi diligently. We receive them to love them in a wider heart.

[27:01]

And then the last paragraph, when we have been purified by the twofold love, it's again very important to see that purification of which we have just treated. And then he missed, tanto devotius quanto securius, as devoted as we are secure, because purifying our love is pure. Our love is being purified by this exercise of love of self and of love of the others, peace of conscience and fraternal charity. can find our way into God's own sanctuary and be embraced by Him, and there our longing breaks through the limitation of our flesh, and there we see Jesus Christ as God. I shall comment on this sentence later on. But it's the vision, not the absorption in the contemplation of the One.

[28:07]

Yes, also, yes, please cross the mistake there. We are drawn into his glory, glorious light, and lost in his unbelievable, unbelievable joy. And then the next sentence should be crossed, definitely. Everything that belongs to our human nature, everything flesh, impassive, destructive, is stilled. You can cross everything that belongs to our human nature, which is an heresy. It's not in the text anyway. Everything fleshly and perceptible and transitory is stilled. All we can do is gaze on the one who is changeless, and as we gaze on him, we are perfectly at rest. That's an idea of St. Bernard. To gaze on the one who is at rest, you become at rest yourself. So that's the doctrine of Sangha Red on these three steps of charity or peace of the soul.

[29:10]

@Transcribed_v004
@Text_v004
@Score_JJ