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Timeless Wisdom in Modern Therapy
AI Suggested Keywords:
Seminar_Zen_and_Psychotherapy
The talk focuses on the intersections of Zen philosophy and psychotherapy, emphasizing the concepts of time from both Greek and Buddhist perspectives. It delves into the distinction between Kronos and Kairos—Greek terms referring to quantitative and qualitative experiences of time—and contrasts these with the Buddhist view of time as endless and non-cyclical. Additional discussions involve the nature and challenges of practice periods in Zen, highlighting the transformative potential of long-term meditation without external distractions, and touching on positive thinking's influence on consciousness.
Referenced Works and Concepts:
- Kronos and Kairos: Discussed as Greek concepts of quantitative and qualitative time, relevant to understanding different perceptions of time in Zen and therapy contexts.
- Basho's Poem: Serves as a metaphor for deep truth and incubation, relevant to the practice of mindfulness and awareness.
- The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale: Referenced in discussing how positive affirmations can shape behavior, contrasting with experiential Zen approaches.
- Dogen's Teachings: Mentioned indirectly in relation to the discussion on Zen and the immediacy of the present moment, setting a context for mindfulness practice.
AI Suggested Title: Timeless Wisdom in Modern Therapy
Now, I wish sometimes I could be what's called in English, fly on the wall. Do you know that expression? And I could just be there with big ears, though. And you could have a discussion among yourselves, and I could listen. Because sometimes I'm really quite embarrassed by how much I talk. I mean, I kind of accept it because I've been doing this 50 years, so I have more, and so I probably should have something to say. I accept it because I've been doing it for 50 years and I should have something to say. Well, it really makes sense to me when in discussion with you or, yeah, in discussion
[01:13]
So I'd like to at least start out this morning with overhearing your discussion with each other or having you engage me in the discussion. Who will be second? I can see no one wants to be first. Yes? I went home last night and I was occupied a little bit with those three levels of time. And I was a little discontent.
[02:32]
And I noticed that with bodily time I can really work. And in the end at the ripening time I liked Bastard, please, the most. Then I remembered that I said something of Kronos and Kairos. And then I remembered that I said something of Kronos and Kairos. And somebody said something of this curl. And then I looked it up on the Internet. Well, this is good. And I found it very interesting. And about the interesting things. So the Greeks in the 3rd century made a distinction between Kronos and Kairos. Kronos is quantity.
[03:43]
While Kairos is the quality of time. And I found this one which I'd like to read. This is a conversation in Greece where a Greek poet writes OK, so this is a conversation. And it's a Greek poet who writes about a person who is standing in front of a statue. Since we spoke about statues, that's nice. And it's a Kairon statue. The person is having a dialogue with Kairos in the statue.
[04:44]
The statue will answer. Okay. Who are you? I am Kairos. Who conquers everything. Why do you tiptoe? I, Kairos, continuously walk. Why do you have wings on your feet? I fly like the wind. Why do you carry a pointed knife in your hand? To remind humans that I'm pointier than a knife. Why do you have a curl of hair falling into your forehead? So that anyone who meets me can grab me.
[05:56]
Why are you bowled on the back of your head? When with flying feet I have passed or slid by. No one can reach me from the back. Even if the person struggles strongly. And why did the artist create you? to educate you wanderers. Now for you, how does that relate to what we've been talking about?
[07:00]
First of all to this awakeness. For this immediate right now moment. And in the dialogue of therapist and patient, client. How should I say it? How should I say it? Because the reality is there. Reality is there. And that fits for me to say, but when it's over, you can't take it away. So reality is there, and that matches for me with Zen. When it's past, you can no longer have a grasp on it. And that's very pointed, like the knife.
[08:17]
Okay. Are you a therapist? Mr. Talbot? Maybe since you're bald in front, you need to cultivate a long curl and bring it around. We should take some photographs of all the bald heads, at least put one of you beautiful women with curls. Well, the main thing that strikes me about it, and Kairos and Kronos I've read about years ago, but I've never... tried to study the concept in relationship to Buddhist concepts? But the main thing that strikes me about it is the attempt or the Greek feeling that you should personify time and emphasize its differences and its experienceableness.
[09:33]
Certainly Zen or Buddhism emphasizes the experienceableness of time and how to make it an experience. Yeah, that's enough. The main image of time in Buddhism, since I haven't thought enough about what Kairos and Kronos do related to this point, but the main concept of Buddhism, of time in Buddhism, is that it's endless and not cyclical. Greeks often had an idea of it being cyclical.
[10:58]
See, we're dressed the same. Thank you. So the main concept, it's never cyclical? It's not cyclical, and it's endless. And time is... If you do have to think of time, you think of it in terms of kalpas. And a kalpa is sometimes translated as an eon, but an eon is just a moment in a kalpa. A long kalpa is how long it would take a bird, I think I mentioned this yesterday, flying over the top of a mountain with either a feather or a piece of silk.
[12:04]
Once every hundred years it brushed this piece of silk across the top of the mountain. Mount Everest or Mount Sumeru. That's a long kelpa, and there are many, many kelpas. Oh, and then it didn't say that it has to kind of erase the mountain. Yeah, it erases them. And a short kalpa is if you took a container... What's jackhammer in German?
[13:25]
I don't know. This is the lauded woman. She says to Herk with a piece of silk, get a jackhammer. A short kalpa is if you imagine the container a hundred miles on all sides, up and down and as a square. And it's full of sesame seeds. And once every three years you remove one. That's a short cut. When you think of time in this kind of vast scale, clearly the emphasis is on the present moment.
[14:51]
There's no relationship to such vast scale, except its vastness, and that's only one of many calipers. unermesslichen Ausmaß überhaupt keine Beziehung. But, you know, I really appreciate what you said. What is your name? Guido. Guido. Guido. G-U-I-D-O. Like an Italian name. Guido. Okay, thank you. And you're sitting next to Harold, which I found out yesterday. My father's name. And, um, But Guido, what you said gives me a feeling of a context to speak within, so that's great. Someone else. You two have to wait, because you're always first. Someone else. Oh, you're a third now.
[16:00]
Just a small comment. To the personal experience of time. Praxis period is a time to length or duration that is no longer... Two or three weeks is manageable, then I can somehow hold on. But 90 days is unbearable, and I have to give up pretty soon. Okay, so 90 days is too long to conceptually have a time that you can organize a structure.
[17:02]
The only thing you can do is kind of release yourself into it. You can't fight it. You have to give up on a very basic level. And I think that's one aspect why practice period is so fruitful. That's true. And as most of you would know that we've recently miraculously purchased some wonderful buildings across the street in Johanneshof. And people might say, well, bought these buildings because they're so timber frame handcrafted. And they were looked like they already were designed as part of a Buddhist temple.
[18:23]
Of course we were able to notice that and that did affect our decided decision to purchase it. But we actually purchased it because it was across the road. And so And people have been asking me for many years to do a practice period in Europe. And it took me many years before I decided to do a Sashin in Europe. Because I thought, once I do Sashins, I can't leave Europe. Or until I have a successor, several. So, you know, like Norbert and Angela have done Sashin, and I'm stuck with them. For decades now.
[19:52]
So, you know, if you do a sashin, I don't feel you can abandon people after you practice. And I didn't want to do practice periods because I just didn't feel we had any, that Johannesoft was, I could ask people to stay there for three months and have no contact almost with the outside world. Because you're definitely trying to alter people's experience of time. Which in our contemporary world is very, very difficult to do.
[21:08]
Because smartphones are difficult to hide. I mean difficult to find. And we've had people at practice period at Crestone who think it's a divine right to be able to use the Internet. Thank you for arranging this. I'm sorry. We said you can only use your computer for email every five days in the afternoon.
[22:15]
This very intelligent, capable person Turned into Rumpelstiltskin. Do you have Rumpelstiltskin? You got it from us? Oh, I got it from you. It's from Hessen here. That's where it comes from. Hessen, Rumpelstiltskin. Just really nearby. Nearby, oh. Gets it on the tourist trip. Can I see it? Yes. And he literally stomped his foot and was going to leave that afternoon. We calmed him down. But only barely. So basically we get up before the sun comes up. We want to be up And before first light, we want to be up when the birds start to sing.
[23:41]
And we're on a five-day week, not a seven-day week. And there is as much as possible no social space. I only relate to people through practice and not through, you know, hi, how are you? You know, you look good, you know. And my relationship to the people is only through practice, not like, hello, how are you? You look good. There are no telephone calls and so on. In the old times, of course, it was possible. You went somewhere, So I don't know if it's going to work, but we're going to try starting on the 15th of next month.
[24:52]
But I think that... As Gerald just said, and as Nicole Baden, who you know, she's translated here several times, said in practice period, she really was lost because she only could turn to her inner resources. There were no outer resources, and their inner resources weren't enough, but they had to be. And when practice period works, sometimes it takes a few practice periods. You end up feeling independent and complete at all times.
[26:11]
Your inner resources are always sufficient. inner resources are always sufficient. Yeah, anyone else? Someone else? Yes, okay. Yeah. I'd like to mention the point of contextualization. But before I do that, it's as if the ball is flying back and forth. I slept under the Hercules monument in my bully.
[27:29]
Everything was wonderful. But I didn't have a reception up there. Oh, that's terrible. It was wonderful, but I had to call my wife. And then I went into this... and then I got back into the normal conscious thinking before that the world just unfolded for me during that period I want to come back to Basho and Basho, this poem of Basho is a kind of context The poem of Basho is a kind of context. And it's about incubating this poem.
[28:33]
You cannot know the end or the answer or the deep truth. My question is where does this poem come from? Many years ago when I was in the States, I bought a book. What do I say when I talk to myself? It was a bestseller. It was about positive thinking. It was a bestseller about positive thinking. I was a heavy smoker. I tried this book out. It was so that you think the result, I am not a smoker, even if you smoke.
[29:35]
So it was like one thinks the result, which is I'm a non-smoker, even while one smokes. So I was continuously smoking, outed myself as a non-smoker, which seemed pretty odd to other people. One day I forgot smoking, it just wasn't there any longer. This is an example for positive thinking. It comes from consciousness. Consciousness creates a context for consciousness, which remains within consciousness. That's an example that arises out of consciousness, creates a concept in consciousness and remains in consciousness. My feeling is that this poem comes from somewhere else, not from consciousness.
[30:50]
How can you distinguish the two? Yeah, okay. That's, of course, the background of what I'm trying to say. I remember my mother read when I was a kid a huge bestseller called The Power of Positive Thinking. I forget the author. Anybody remember? Murphy. Murphy? No. Carnegie. Dale Carnegie. That's Dale Carnegie. Power of positive thinking. I was afraid of my mother's power of positive thinking. Okay, so, um, you know, uh, Some of you haven't said anything, and I really wish you would.
[32:03]
Maybe next year, anybody who wants to come has to agree to speak three times. And if they don't agree to that, we only send them the tape. And they can listen without me being present. Just to hear the timbre of your voice makes me happy. So after the break, I will speak about the power of positive thinking. From the point of view of... Dogen Carnegie.
[33:03]
Yes, there is a relationship. Alright, thank you very much.
[33:06]
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