are helping us to reformulate an old-fashioned mind. Yes. Continuously creation runs loom and shuttle. Weaving the ancient brocade. Buddha was the original weaver. Incorporating the forms of spring. So both are there. Now, do I think we're regressing or ascending to the 12th century? I don't know. I'm reading Huizinga's book on the Middle Ages. It was in many ways a terrible time. I mean, people did horrible things to each other.

[01:01]

Yeah, I mean like tying somebody to a stake? No, I won't tell you. She refuses to translate these things. But at the same time there were some qualities of mind there that are very similar to Buddhism. Louise is reading a book on Paracelsus. Somebody who was important for me to study when I was 20 or so. But you quoted some things the other day. Can you tell us what you said? Yeah, I read a little bit. Yeah, but just tell us what you mean. He says, for example, if you look at an apple tree, it simply has its own time in itself.

[02:37]

And he says it goes so far that the day has 12 hours at that time, that each hour has its own time in itself. And he always says that the whole light of nature is also contained in one hour. Can you tell me a couple of things you said? He said that everything has its own time. And you can understand that if you look at an apple tree. But also, as they said, those days, the day has 12 hours. Each hour has the whole of time in it. And he said every hour also includes what he calls the whole light of nature. This is, I mean, almost exactly Dogen's idea. It's the center of Buddhism, this idea of ripening time, that each thing has its own time and each thing is ripening in a different kind of time. And it's interesting to me, what I felt, you know, I'm part of a Buddhist lineage.

[03:37]

And I'm doing my darndest, not my damnedest, my darndest, to make it possible for you to be part of this lineage if you want to be. But I'm also part of a Western lineage which led me to Buddhism. What my friend Michael Murphy calls the interrupted lineages. We were speaking about him a moment ago. That many of our Western philosophers, Heidegger, Wittgenstein, Spinoza, lots of people, came up to the point where they needed practice to go the next step, and they didn't have it.

[04:50]

I think that's part of our lineage in seemingly coming to Asia for wisdom. But I think there's also an underground lineage in Western culture, which I think Paracelsus is the kind of ultimate alchemist. He's one of the representatives, I think. Paracelsus is one of the ultimate alchemists. There's a lineage which alchemy partly represents. That's carried in Western culture sort of under the surface by poets and painters and others.

[05:57]

And my study of Paracelsus in the 60s was part of my recognition that I felt part of this lineage. All right. Can I ask a question? Why not? Back to consciousness and thinking. Do you think that the capacity to follow the wise light don't invite the thoughts to tea?

[06:58]

Is that a step from thinking into consciousness? Or does it need somehow to practice that to create consciousness? Yeah, can you say it in German, please? Okay. I'll see if I can answer your question. Suzuki Roshi's most common advice is don't invite your thoughts to tea. This is advice for the fourth skandha. In consciousness itself, the fifth skandha, in the consciousness that this is the fifth skanda

[08:09]

You can't even think about not inviting your guests to tea, your thoughts to tea. They're already sitting down, they're eating it, and it's your landlord. Okay. You can't throw them out of the house without the Buddhist sheriff. Okay. But when you're in the fourth skanda, which is the first stage of entering zazen, it's like you go into zazen and you're sitting down and thinking, who's sitting beside me and how long will the period be? That's consciousness. And after a bit you go over a little bump, like you go over a bump to go from waking to sleeping. And things start coming up. Yeah, and I think actually this is a very important period of time for about two years if you sit daily.

[09:17]

which you're essentially reviewing your life. Okay. And this you need to maintain the free associating or the fourth skanda of associative mentation, you need an attitude to maintain that. So it doesn't turn into consciousness. So in a way you've brought a little attitude from consciousness into this mind of free associating.

[10:35]

A consciously formulated attitude Don't invite your thoughts to tea. Which has the quality of being an attitude or an act, an action. It's a position, it's a posture. I mean, if people are walking around your house, you have a posture of ignoring them. That's not exactly a thought. It's kind of a posture. So you bring that posture into the mind of free association. And you, after a while, don't have to think. It's just a bodily feeling almost, and you don't invite thoughts to tea.

[11:36]

So it's a kind of overlap of consciousness and associating mentation. Okay, now the skill of a teacher and the teaching is to find ways of saying things that can be present in different kinds of minds without triggering consciousness. So Sukhirashi putting it that way, don't invite your thoughts to tea, allows you to feel that without thinking it, and it functions in the fourth skandha. and prepares you then to let go of free associating and enter the space of mind and go into the third skant.

[13:03]

And as Gerhard said, when you hear hearing, you're now in the third skanda. Because you're hearing the mind hearing, So you're unconsciously identified with the field of mind which hears the sound. Now the advice, don't invite your sound to tea, would not make any sense. Is this kind of detailed explanation of any use?

[14:20]

I don't know if it appeals to... Some people think, what that baker, he's so good. But, you know, I don't think anybody... I don't know, except for the Abhidharma... Abhidharmas, anybody has in many centuries tried to explain the mindological process as clearly as I tried to. And it's not that many, many thought... Millions of others haven't understood this and practiced it in the way I'm speaking. It's just that transitional periods, it's very important to be clear.

[15:26]

So that Abhidhammas represented a period where they had to make the teaching clear for the society, for the culture to understand it. Okay, so to make this practice work for me, And to be accessible to those I practice with. I found that I have to be, I have to really feel these things through in the paradigms of my own, our own cultures. Which has really taken me decades. It's taken me a very long time to see even small shifts.

[16:40]

If you look at it this way rather than that way, what a big difference it makes. But the big difference is not apparent until you know the big difference. And the shift looks so small that how can you realize the difference? Realize there's a difference because it's just a small little shift. And the most The easiest example for me to use of that, which actually I recognized many years ago, that the cultural idea we have that space separates blinds us to much of the teaching and the insights of practice.

[17:46]

You also have to recognize that space connects. Until you recognize that space connects, most of the teaching doesn't make sense. But then it took me a long time to see in which mind space separates and in which mind space connects. And then it took me years to recognize that just saying seeing the difference between the view, internalized view of already separated, and shift that to a practice view of already connected.

[18:57]

What's the most effective way to practice with the difference between space connecting and space separating? Excuse me. The previous one. Yes. To recognize the practice of saying already connected is the best way to work with the more philosophical idea of space-connected. And I mean, Suzuki Roshi was very good at this. And his attempt to use English. He had a great foe detector. He could... I mean, he...

[20:02]

knew he shouldn't say, such a thing is real. This bell is not real. As a Japanese person, he could recognize that if you say this bell is real, it leads to all kinds of things in our mind, in our language. So he would say, this bell has its value. It has a value different from everything else. It's very particular. It's not universal. This bell has its own value. But that's not to say it's real.

[21:16]

But for us it works almost the same. To say it has its own value allows us to relate to it in a way that we'd like to relate to it by saying it's real. So I find myself having to do this so I can practice with you. I find I have to go through this process of trying to be clear. And because I'm practicing with you in lay context. If I can get us all to live together in a monastery, I don't have to be so clear. We just do it together. And since I recognized very early on coming to Europe that I couldn't get you all to live in a monastery with me, I tried, but didn't.

[22:32]

So I discovered I had to make the teaching as accessible as I could in ways that otherwise I could have depended on monastic life to supply. A new one to say something. I've got a question. Either it's, I don't know, or stupid, hyper-critical or stupid. I don't like you of that kind of thing. But I do need an answer. All right. So can you now make a connection with the intention of daily practice or the intention to practice daily?

[24:14]

Can I connect everything I've been talking about with the intention to daily... Yes. Yeah, I think we need a break. And, yes, I definitely should do something like that. So let's... No, I want to, I want to, I want to. And it's... Let's take a 15-minute break, and we're going to end around 1. Let's take a 15-minute break. Is that all right with everyone? Okay, thanks. My poor niece. Thank you for your time. Thanks for your question. Thank you. I think you downloaded too much.

[25:25]

Too much? I downloaded too much? She says I downloaded too much. That's what I've tried to learn in seminars not to do. I used to, the last day, I don't remember anybody from the old days, but the last day would come shoveling out like... And we can take out of this whole mountain... Yeah, that's what I want. That's what I want, yeah. But when your questions get better... then I have to be clearer in my answers. It's your fault. Melita, I'm just teasing you. I just have a little cap to clear my throat. Well, we only have a short time, so let's just be simple and practical.

[27:02]

You're probably not going to practice on a daily basis unless you have the intention to do so. And you're probably not going to get the intention to do so unless you have a taste of practice itself. In the example of someone who practices or in some experience of your own? Entweder als ein Vorbild von jemand, der praktiziert, oder dass ihr selbst davon wisst. The idea that practice is a good thing doesn't really make you practice. It's the experience that turns into an intention. Und zwar die Idee, dass praktizieren eine gute Sache ist, das bringt nicht sehr viel, sondern die Erfahrung, dass es das ist. And intentions die unless they're acted on. And the whole realm of intention, which is what the vows and ordination and precepts are about,

[28:22]

In the language, it's how you take them and how you do something with them. They're given to you, not for you to have, but for you to do something with. And then how to sustain them, hold them. Hold them in your activity. And all the practices like the five skandhas are taught, how do you hold the five skandhas before you in your activity. So your intention has to be held and acted on in some way.

[29:23]

Now, regular practice in small amounts is infinitely more important than a lot of practice occasionally. Ten, fifteen minutes a day is far more important than ten sesshins in a row. Okay. So to do 10 or 15 minutes or 20 or whatever a day, you need a routine. So you need a routine in order to bring practice into your life.

[30:25]

Now the difference between the adept and the we don't want to have a negative term, the amateur practitioner. The usual lay practitioner and the adept is one brings practice into their life and the other brings their life to practice. And in both cases, you need a routine. Now, if you're in a monastery, the routine is supplied for you. Zazen, study, etc. If you're on your own, you have to create the routine yourself. Yeah, actually not so easy.

[31:33]

You have to decide what practice are you going to do regularly. Now, when I started to practice, actually mindfulness was not a common idea. Nor was Zazen. And in those days, Zazen was not called meditation. Because meditation meant something so different than Zazen that we never called it meditation. But now the cultural definition of meditation is so widened that it includes sasin. So now if I write something, I use the word meditation, but for many years, all through the 70s, I never used the word meditation. Because it meant something like contemplation.

[32:52]

Okay, and mindfulness wasn't a common idea at all. Yeah. But nowadays, the obvious choice is zazen, meditation, and or mindfulness. And mindfulness is almost recommended by everybody now for everything. So it gets a little harder to teach really what mindfulness is because it's so merged with general alertness.

[33:59]

There's nothing wrong with alertness, though. You know, the Japanese can't, after they're two or three years old, can't distinguish between L's and R's. So Sukershim lectures used to say, you should be more our heart. Well, our heart is like a Bodhisattva. And Theravadin Buddhism. An Arhat is what? A kind of Bodhisattva in Theravadin Buddhism. Yeah, so I, a monk or something, so I studied the Arhat and tried to be more Arhat.

[35:05]

And after some months I realized he was just saying you should be more alert. So I became an alert Arhat. So you choose mindfulness and meditation, say. Then you have to figure out when you're going to do it. As I say, don't forget routine and regularity. So I would say the best choice would be six or seven times a week you do zazen. 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 40 minutes. At least 10. But really, 10 is a big difference from none. And usually once you sit down for 10, you find you've got 20. But just to change yourself enough to sit down for a little while is already a big part of meditation.

[36:38]

I'm too busy to sit. No, I'm not too busy to sit 10 minutes. That's a big difference. Your breath can change a great deal in ten minutes. And ten minutes of your breath changing can change your day. So the best time, I think, to sit, at least that affects your day the most, is in the morning. So you have to make it part of your routine. You know, when do you brush your teeth, wash your face, what if you have a child, when do they get up, etc. ? I tried, I mean, I just wanted to.

[37:42]

I mean, I would say for the first five years, maybe I missed three days in sitting. I just really decided to save my life, nothing else. I was going to sit every day. After five years, I became a little less of a religious fanatic. At least a little more relaxed. But one of the hardest things is to sit in hotels. First you have to get up from the warm body of your spouse. Who drags you back into sleep. Or you have to get up knowing you're going to disturb him or her. Sometimes I would get two hotel rooms if they were cheap.

[38:44]

You know, Motel 6 with the sheets unchanged from the previous person. And I'd go sit in the other room. I find nowadays mattresses are harder in hotels. It used to be mattresses would sag and the pillows were nowhere and It was a real problem to sit in, but you know, you can do it. In the early days when plastics weren't so good, I tried a couple pillows you inflated. I had to go to New York with Suzuki Roshi, so I got us both these inflatable cushions. And I think they worked twice. The third day we were sitting, we started going... And I was sitting there trying to pretend nothing was happening.

[40:19]

And I looked up and Suzuki Rashi was looking at me. So they went out. Now, it's also sometimes a deeper feeling to meditate at noontime for some reason, and there's a different feeling of meditating in the evening. So you have to just think what works in your life. I found I could go I packed my lunch working at the university. I could find a place by a stream where I would read a little of the Lankavatara Sutra and then sit for five or ten minutes. No one bothered me much. I don't know why I tell you these dumb anecdotes, but At that time I was married to this wonderful person named Virginia who supported my practice and is the godmother of our daughter.

[41:40]

And when I'd go to visit them, my in-laws, And when I visited my married family, I always brought a Buddhist scroll with me. They thought it was pretty odd. But after a while they left the nail there. And they lived on a lake and I used to kind of scour around trying to find a place during the day where I could meditate where they wouldn't be noticed. So I found a place down by this little swimming dock where I got in bushes on the bank going down the lake, kind of pulled the leaves around myself and was sitting. And her family was a kind of upper middle class family and one day I was sitting in there and this speedboat came up and then pulled right up to the dock with the whole family on it and they looked and there I was in the bushes laughing

[42:59]

And they, don't mind him, it's just our son-in-law. Anyway, so you have to find some place to maintain your routine. Okay. Then you want to, and this nourishes your intention. And this, and the first, if you sit regularly, as I said, the first couple of years, it's a kind of review of your past life. And you begin to... Really, you're in the process of a similar to a Freudian thing of free associating.

[44:29]

But as you continue to practice... Somehow the mind, original mind, primordial mind, fundamental mind, I'm testing your vocabulary. begins to surface in your daily life. And if you don't sit, yeah, you can still practice mindfulness, etc., but this kind of fundamental mind sinks out of sight. And so you go, sometimes it's good to take a break.

[45:31]

I mean, I didn't for five years, but sometimes it's good to take a break for a week or two, say. And I think you'll notice this kind of fundamental mind that's different from the psychological stuff that used to come up. Tends to think out of sight. And then it's it. If you don't practice it. But two or three days of sitting again and then you can feel it surfacing. So this surfacing of fundamental mind into your daily life is part of daily practice. And like during this last most of six months now, since the doctors cut my seat away,

[46:43]

But what I did notice when I was able to sit or started to sit again, is that there was more, how to explain this, but there was more creativity in my days when I was sitting that day. There was more looseness and possibilities in situations. And the really... And this, after a while, I hope, At least it's happened to me. You get a really delicious feeling when you sit. I hope the bell never rings.

[48:12]

Most times when Keenan comes, I just want to sit there and they'll think I'm showing off if I don't get up. Although it's actually really important to get up when there's time for singing. Usually. And I can see that the birds are all singing just for me. And the Buddha was teaching just for me. So I missed that during my hospital stay. But, you know, what was nice, excuse me for the aside, is the nurses and doctors and technicians, they were all so nice.

[49:15]

They were all really dedicating their life to trying to help people. It was wonderful to be part of that. The technicians in the radiology department at the end of my treatment They very sweetly said, we hope we never see you again. Here. I said, me too. So you establish a routine. and your intention becomes stronger and your intention becomes now part of the craft and creativity of your practice when you have a deep or firm intention

[50:26]

Your intelligence lights up. And this then moves you into the craft of practice. Which partly is your own discovery. There's no teaching for it. And then things like maybe my image of the basket as a kind of weaving might help. And you do get so you notice when you have this more fundamental clarity of mind. Or when there's, you know, thoughts coming and going.

[51:42]

Or maybe a disturbing letter. Or you open the mail and your credit cards get a thousand dollars more on it than you thought. You break out into a sweat and then you see that as the contrast to your mind just before you And then you see this in contrast to your mind, in which you were just before you made this calculation. And then you really begin to feel these negative and positive elements. And much more you're identified with the whole situation, so just this one bad news or letter or something doesn't disturb the whole situation. While you open this terrible thing, the birds are still singing. What's the problem? And this is part of your identification, so it's part of your identity.

[52:55]

And awakening this identity with the day, the fullness of the day, is part of daily practice. And of course we get more technical practicing with the momentariness, not the permanence, impermanence. Is like Dogen to complete that which appears. And each moment is an appearance. When you begin to feel the practice of momentariness, this is actually dharma practice.

[54:03]

That's a dharma. Now, as this sort of fundamental mind is more surfacing in your life, now you can bring these wisdom phrases, teaching phrases into your life. And they sink. Even though they look like thoughts, they sink right down through consciousness. And they float on this surface of this fundamental mind. And they begin to reveal everything. Everything appears like the truth. This is daily practice. It's one of the most wonderful things anyone can do.

[55:21]

And it's, to me, the most exciting possibility you can discover. Simple, old, ordinary, daily practice. Thank you very much. Now we have daily lunch. Thanks. Oh! Excuse me, my knee just did something funny. What time is lunch ready? I guess it's ready now, huh? But not apparently quarter after it. Well, let's sit for one minute or two. They say families in America, the Protestants say, families that pray together stay together.

[56:28]

We need a phrase like that. People who sit to, no, I don't know what it would be. The power necessary for practice comes to us when we really know we're practicing for other people as well as ourselves.

[58:36]

And in that sense, we're just other people. To just practice for yourself, there's not enough power in that intention. Because we practice, there's Buddhism. Because we practice, there is Buddha. Thank you very much, each one of you.

[61:29]

It was my pleasure to spend these days with you. And I hope I see you soon.

[61:34]

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