The Third Turning of the Wheel of Dharma Lectured by the Venerable Daisheng Rinpoche Friday, February 8, 1985 Kargyu Dona Choleng For those of you recording this tape, the lecture starts after approximately three and a half minutes' worth of music. Oh.

[03:32]

Actually, this is very difficult, but just that we're able to hear it, it means we're very fortunate that we can hear the names of these divisions of the teachings, and it plants a seed in us, actually, that we have the fantasy to later to study it in its proper way, in a very detailed form. and will be able to understand it. Rinpoche was just describing himself, how he had studied the various Marimeka schools, and these teachings actually in a very slow process, I mean, one piece at a time over a very long period from many different teachers. So it takes a long time to really understand it in its proper perspective. Anyway, from what I can understand what Rinpoche was saying, first of all, I think the Bodhisattvimani, through practicing in previous lifetimes, were three uncountable eons practice the various teachings and practices, underwent the various studies and meditations, especially accumulating matter and transcendental wisdom in order to gain the stage of full and perfect enlightenment.

[05:49]

So, having worked for these countless eons, then eventually he was able to gain the stage of full and perfect enlightenment. He was able to gain the stage of the accomplishment of the two bodies of the Dharmakaya and the Rubhakaya, or Sambhogakaya and Nirmalakaya. And he was able to come to understanding of the ultimate truth, of the true nature of all things. And in order to help other sentient beings, he took the most excellent type of Nirmanakaya, or emanation body, which emanated here in this world, in India, more than 2,000 years ago, and there, taking birth in India, then he went through the various deeds, what are known as the top deeds of the Buddha, of showing the path to enlightenment, of gaining enlightenment under the Bodhi tree, and then working for sentient beings by turning the wheel of the Dharma, or teaching the various aspects of the truth. And he did this primarily through turning the wheel of the Dharma, or speaking on three different aspects of the Dharma,

[06:54]

The first aspect was caused, the first turning of the wheel of the Dharma was at Varanasi when he taught the Four Truths to those who were primarily motivated by the lower path or the Hinayana path of seeking self-liberation. And for them, especially at the time of teaching the Four Truths, he primarily... emphasized the teachings on karma, or deeds and result, the effects of doing various virtuous and non-virtuous deeds, and the result for one within this world, or how to gain liberation from this world. And this was actually called a teaching which leads indirectly to understanding the truth, or the teaching indirectly leading to liberation. Then on a second occasion, to countless beings of the various classes of Buddhist practitioners, such as monks, nuns, novice monks and nuns, lay people, and also to countless other realized beings, different bodhisattvas, and also to different heavenly beings, he taught at the Vulture's Peak in Rajagir, the teachings of the three aspects of

[08:16]

the truth, which were known as the empty aspect, the wishless aspect, and the signless aspect, referring to that the cause of various dharmas by their nature were empty, that the path itself by its own nature was signless, and that the result by its own nature was wishless. And In other words, he taught at that time that all dharmas, by their very nature, all things concerning oneself or other internal or external phenomena are by their own nature, by their own self, empty of any truth. They're completely void of any true nature in their own nature, in their own being. So being completely void of any true nature, of something we can grasp to be true, all these phenomena were seen to be completely devoid of the four extremes, the four conceptualizing extremes which the mind produces, that it holds everything to be either existent or non-existent, or both existent and non-existent, or neither existent nor non-existent.

[09:20]

And seeing all things to be completely devoid of any true nature in themselves, then this goes beyond this understanding or this realization then of the true nature of things goes beyond the conceptualizing mind. It goes beyond or transcends the thinking mind, and it understands the truth as it is in itself, which cannot be grasped by our ordinary way of expressing things, but can only be realized through one's own meditation, realized within oneself. Then on the third occasion, the Buddha taught what was known as the teaching which well analyzes various aspects of the Dharma. This is sort of the name of the teaching, which well defines or well analyzes all the various Dharmas, such as the mind or external phenomena. Here, this teaching was both for the benefit not only of Mahayanas, but also of Hinayanas, of both the schools, or anyone who was practicing the various paths of Buddha's teaching.

[10:22]

And on various occasions, the Buddha taught this. It was said to be taught in the area called Malaya in India. Also, the Buddha taught this in various heavenly realms to the gods there, and also in India, in other places such as Vaisale and other areas. And What happened was that because of the first teaching, some people, the Buddha emphasized actually that first of all, there is this five aggregates. There is this body and the mind and feelings, perceptions and consciousness and predispositions. And he taught that in order that one should understand that they're there so that we can abandon them. That, in other words, one would believe in the law of karma that there is the practice of deeds and that these deeds, whether virtuous or non-virtuous, will have an effect they will hurt one or help one or cause suffering to one or cause happiness. So basically he taught this about the aggregates in order for people to understand the teachings of karma so that they could overcome leading themselves into paths of suffering and would be able to gain stages of liberation.

[11:29]

And then, not only that, but then from that step, then the Buddha taught that actually also these aggregates are not true by their own nature, they're empty. But what happened was that many people, when they heard about the five aggregates, then they held that to be true, due to their own ignorance or their own dispositions. So they fell into the extreme, what is known as eternalism. In order to overcome that, the Buddha taught the second teaching, which dealt primarily with the negative aspect of the nature of all things, that all things are not true in their own nature, that they're non-existent, as we believe them to be. So, During the second teaching, he taught these aspects of the empty nature of things, the signless nature of things, and also the wishless nature of things, so that people would see that it's not proper to hold on to these five aggregates to be true, not even proper to hold on to karma to be true, that all things by their own nature were empty, devoid of any true existence. But again, what happened here was that some people held this to be true, this negative aspect was true, holding on to this thought, then they fell into another extreme, which is called the extreme of nihilism, though it was an improper reaction.

[12:44]

or an improper understanding on their part, still holding on to this teaching of emptiness, then they fell into the nihilistic extreme. Whereas in the first teaching, holding on to the aggregates or karma to be true, they fell into the eternalistic extreme. So they're going on the wrong paths. In other words, though the teaching was given to them in a proper form, they held something to be true, whether negative or positive, and then went off in the wrong direction due to that. So in order to correct this, then the Buddha taught the third teaching, here which is known as well analyzing the various aspects of phenomena. And he taught this in order that all those would neither fall into this extreme of holding things or grasping things to be true, nor grasping things or holding things to be not true or empty in a negative sense. He taught this third teaching. And this actually was divided into three aspects. And these words, they're technical words, and it's very hard to give an English equivalent.

[13:47]

The first one is called kunta, which means, in Sanskrit it's called parikalpata, which means actually to label all things or to give a name to everything, or labeling all or ascribing a name to everything. It's a technical word. I mean, we'll try to explain what it means. The second aspect was called Shenwang, in Tibetan it's called Shenwang, or in Sanskrit it's called Paritantra, which literally means, actually, under the power of another. And the third aspect was called Yongdrup, in Tibetan it's called Yongdrup, or in Sanskrit it's called Parinishvana, which means, basically, the ultimate truth, or truth. We just call it the ultimate truth there, the easiest. So these three aspects of ascribing or labeling names to everything, of seeing all things to be under the power of another, and also the ultimate truth, were taught in various different sutras by the Buddha himself.

[14:50]

They were taught in one collection called the Koncek. It's a collection of six different sutras, or six different volumes from the Tripitaka, and they include actually more than 30 different short sutras. And there, these teachings on these three aspects of this third teaching were taught. Also at the time of the Samadhi Raja Sutra, This was taught in the sutta of the Tathagata Garbha. It was also taught in a number of other places, in a number of other suttas. Not only this idea about the three aspects of analyzing how we can analyze this world, but also about the nature that each person individually possesses what is known as the essence of enlightenment, or the Tathagata Garbha, or the seed of enlightenment within each one of us. These theory also was taught at the time of these various sutras. Now, if we look at each one of these separately, first of all, we refer to this idea of kuntak, or the labeling of things.

[16:05]

First of all, this refers to what is known as the relative truth. Within the relative truth, there are things which are arisen due to a subject-object dichotomy or a false understanding of the mind, splitting it into believing there is a subject which perceives and an object which is perceived, so that we have this idea of an eye perceives an object which is perceived, and this act of perception, this subject-object dichotomy here is described to be false. It's not even true within the relative sphere. So that within the relative sphere, all these things which we give a name to, which we place a name, we label them, we hold them to be true, due to having a subject and due to having an object, placing an object, placing a name on an object, placing a name on the subject which perceives them, this by its own nature is just false. It's false because it's created by a misconception for ignorance here. So this illusory mind or this illusory functioning mind which creates this subject-object dichotomy even within the relative sphere is just false.

[17:17]

It's not true. So by itself it's just empty of any nature on its own. The next step of understanding the mind is called here, the name is given, actually, Zhenwang, or by the power of another, This actually refers to recognizing the mind, what the mind is in its various aspects. Especially here it refers to the eighth level of consciousness, which is known as the all-based consciousness, or the alaya vijnana, or in Tibetan it's called the kunshi. And basically, first this recognizes the various levels of consciousness, which means actually that the mind is divided into eight levels of consciousness, the first six referring to the consciousness for each of the six organs of perception, such as the eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness, tongue consciousness, body consciousness, and mind consciousness.

[18:30]

So these are called the lower types of consciousness within these eight. The seventh one is called the mind of consciousness. afflictions or the mind of defilement consciousness, which means actually that based on these first six, as these function, then we believe that there is some kind of I which is doing all this work behind us. And this type of I has its own basis in the mind, its own consciousness, and this is what we call the mind of defilements or the mind of afflictions consciousness. And then above that also, we have then the eighth consciousness, which is called the alaya vijnana, or the all-based consciousness, which means actually that all things of this world, whether the... The outside world, such as the various phenomena which arise, the world of existence with all its happiness and unhappiness, the world of the Dharma with entering the path and accomplishing the path, these are actually based on this all-based mind, this eighth consciousness.

[19:36]

And also, the various seeds of enlightenment, or the various aspects of the truth, or of liberation itself, such as Buddhahood, such as the various stages of the different types of enlightenment, are also based on this same higher consciousness, or this same alaya vijnana. So that, in other words, this alaya vijnana, or this eighth consciousness, is called the all-base because it is the basis for this world, as well as being the basis for or the basis of Buddhahood itself, and there's no distinction between them. When we don't recognize this all-based consciousness in its true nature, what happens is the mind creates, it tricks itself, or it starts to delude itself into believing that there is this I and there is these outside things, and then it creates this labeling of all things. So this is actually... starting from this All-Based Consciousness and then misunderstanding its nature and then functioning or creating this world as we see it.

[20:46]

Again, when we understand this All-Based Consciousness in its true nature, when we see it in its true form, When we recognize that this all-based consciousness by itself is devoid of the extremes, is devoid of existence or non-existence, or both existent and non-existent, neither existent nor non-existent, when we see how it is in its own nature, here actually what happens is this all-based, this very all-based then transforms into transcendental knowledge, or transforms into wisdom, because we're uncovering its true nature. What happens is actually that the true nature of the old base right from the very beginning from beginningless time has been there. It's its own primordial wisdom, its own primordial awareness nature. However, temporarily, it's been covered over by defilements or afflictions.

[21:48]

It's been covered over by ignorance. And this is not its true nature, because it's just a covering. It's not its nature, it's just something that covers over it. And once we're able to get rid of that, then this consciousness itself is then seen or transforms itself then into what is known as the transcendental knowledge, or it seeds its own primordial wisdom, or primordial awareness wisdom. this here, according to this system, is called to be true by its own nature. And this is where especially it differentiates from the Marimika school, which we described earlier, because the Marimika school said everything, whether relative or ultimate, by its own nature is empty, by its own nature it's not true. There's nothing that can be grasped to be true. Here the distinction is that when we understand this ultimate nature of the alaya vijnana, or this all-based mind, then we see that this all-based mind is in itself permanent, it's unchangeable, and then it also is something that can be held to be the ultimate truth.

[22:55]

So this is a major distinction we have. This Ultimate Truth then, when we see this All-Based Mind, this Alaya Dignana, actually here it says that it's not emptied by itself. Whereas in the Marimika school we said that the all-based mind, everything we have in this relative or ultimate, by itself is just empty of any truth. But here it is said actually that this all-based mind, the discovering over of the all-based mind, is emptied by the ultimate truth. It's taken away, in a sense, by the ultimate truth. So it's emptied by another. And the school that arose out of this idea was called the Shentomba, or emptied by another school or the thought. which is called emptied by another. Whereas the first one, like in the Marimika school, was said to be called emptied by itself, that everything by itself, by its own nature, is empty. Here, we're saying actually that this mind, this all-based mind, is emptied by the ultimate truth, or it's emptied by the awareness of transcendental wisdom.

[23:57]

So, what this means then, is that This all-based mind, right from the very beginning, from primordial time, from the time before time, in other words, that we cannot find any beginning of this mind, any beginning in this world, from the beginning of this time, this mind has always been pure by its own nature, just as always the sky by its own nature is pure. But then, just as the sky, maybe some dust particles will fly into it, It means actually, in the sense that the sky is covered by these dust particles, but it doesn't change the nature of the sky itself. The sky is still empty like that. And when we take away the dust, then we can see still the sky is just empty as it always was right from the very beginning. So also our own mind, right from the very beginning, has the Buddha nature. Our own mind, right from the very beginning, is the Buddha nature. in that our nature and the Buddha's nature are completely non-different. There's absolutely no difference between our own mind and the Buddha's mind, or the nature of our own mind, the ultimate nature of our own mind and the ultimate nature of the Buddha's mind.

[25:06]

Right from the very beginning there's absolutely no difference. The difference between our mind and the Buddha's mind is the Buddha has uncovered his own true nature, this realization of the true nature of his own mind has been seen, whereas we ourselves, our mind is still, our true nature, our Buddha nature is still covered over by these adventitious afflictions and defilements, and we do not see how it is in its own true nature, how it's been from the very beginning. Many of the great teachers also, such as Malareda and the great Naropa, also within the Lambray schools, Lambray teaching and Sakya school, it is said actually that, Rinpoche just mentioned a number of quotations, it's said actually right from the very beginning, ourselves and the Buddhas are no different, there's no difference between us, just that the Buddhas have understood their own nature, we have not understood our nature, that... if we understand our mind, if we understand the true nature of our own mind, if we uncover this Buddha nature, or in other words, we see this true primordial wisdom which has always been with us, then we become Buddha.

[26:19]

So, there has been many quotes that Rinpoche brought up from various teachers, and This idea actually was taught in India also by the great saints of what is called the mind-only school such as the two brothers Asanga and Vasubandhu and then also various of their disciples and later Indian teachers described this idea of what is known as emptying empty by another or that this mind, the illusory aspect of mind or the untrue aspect of mind is emptied by the ultimate truth. and in Tibet it was taught by many, many people though many claimed in Tibet to be only of the empty by its own nature school which means the Marimekha school still various teachers in Tibet within the Kargyuva school such as some of the past Karmavas as well as other teachers of the Kargyuva school many Nyingvapa teachers

[27:23]

have held this view, which is called the emptied-by-another philosophy. Some people, even within the Lamdre school, Lamdre thought of Sake school, have also mentioned this. Even present-day teachers have taught this idea of emptied-by-another, such as... Some Nyinggapa teachers such as Dujamra Mujhe or Dhingo Kenzo Mujhe who are teaching these days also have ascribed to the school of thought where they believe, they expound the idea that the mind, the ultimate nature of mind, this tathagatagarbha, or true nature of mind, is something which is held to be true in its own nature. that we can hold it to be true we can grasp it to be existent ultimately in its own self and even among the Indian teachers it was said that Nagarjuna was only a teacher of the Marimekha school but even some people claim that he also taught not only this idea of being empty things are empty by their own nature but also that they are emptied by others and how they

[28:25]

describe this is that they divide Nagarjuna's teachings into two parts. One is called actually the teachings on reasoning or the teachings on the Marimika. Actually there's six basic books on teachings on reasoning by Nagarjuna such as the Marimika Karakas or the Root Verses of Wisdom where only this Marimika school or this idea of things are emptied by their own nature is taught. But then there's also another section of writings by Nagarjuna which is called the Writings on Praise where Nagarjuna can be found in the Tanjur, or the collection of commentaries within the Tibetan canon, where Nagarjuna wrote praises to the Bodhisattva Muni, praises to the Dharmakaya, praises to the Dharmadhatu, praises to various other aspects. And there's a whole collection of these teachings which are called the collection of praises. And in there, many people quote those to show also that Nagarjuna held to the view also that things are emptied by another. And this also, when he was saying, one of the past Karmapas also wrote a text on this, and he said unfortunately he has not been able to see that text or read it, but that, be sure, there's a very important teaching in there concerning showing the aspects of Nagarjuna also teaching this school, or this idea of things are emptied by another.

[29:44]

So, the distinction here then is that in this mind-only school, or this teaching of the third teaching, third turning of the wheel of the Dharma, first we have this division of things into these three aspects of labeling things, giving names to things, which itself is an illusory aspect of the world, that that within the relative truth is false by its own nature, then also within this relative world we have the creating mind, functioning mind with its various levels of consciousness, and that we can see these levels of consciousness first are creating this world and the way that we get over this creating mind with its various levels of consciousness and especially up to the 8th level of consciousness is that we empty it of its falsehood or we empty it of these various defilements or afflictions or ignorance and by emptying it through the ultimate truth, then we come to the ultimate truth itself, and then we can hold on to the ultimate truth to be the truly existent Buddhahood, or the truly existent seed of enlightenment, or the nature of our own mind as it is in its ultimate sense.

[31:00]

So these are the various steps that we go through in this third teaching. And this actually is what Umji has been going through. Actually, this teaching is divided into three parts But you were talking about Shen Tong Shen Tong means it's emptied by another So Shen Wang and Shen Tong? No, it's different. Shen Wang is the aspect of mind which is actually the all-based mind, all-based consciousness This is another name for that Shen Wang is the all-based mind with its various aspects. If it's deluded, it's samsara. And if it's cleansed of its delusion, then it's nirvana. So that's the Zhen Wang. Because our mind is under the power of another. Whether it's deluded or undeluded, it's either it's under the power of another that it's under the power of our afflictions that we see it as this world to be true.

[32:08]

And then one can empty it by the ultimate truth, then also it's under the power of another that is emptied by the ultimate truth and then we get to see the true nature of mind as it is in itself. So Zhen Wang refers to as this aspect of mind. And Zhen Tong is the philosophical principle how we get rid of that to see the ultimate truth. What about Yong Zhu? Yong Zhu is the ultimate truth, that's all. Yom Kippur is when you see the mind, its true nature by itself, that's called Yom Kippur. That is the ultimate truth of the mind, the mind in its own true nature. It's just a name for that, for the Yom Kippur. That's right. Then what remains is the Yom Kippur, is its own true nature, which here it describes to be something that we can hold to be true. So it has a different emphasis on it. But in the end, it can't be emptied by anything, can it? I mean, if it's always emptied by another, you'd have to keep going on and on and on and on.

[33:09]

Where does it stop being emptied by another? No, it's just that the falsehood is emptied by truth, and then the truth only remains by itself. But who is the other? Truth? Well, the alternate nature of mind. There's no such thing. Well, here it describes it, actually. Doesn't mean the obscured nature of mind? No, it means the real nature of mind by its own self. The real nature of mind as it is in an enlightened state. In other words, the enlightened mind of Buddhahood, that is the ultimate truth. Yeah, that's the ultimate truth. And when we realize that, that actually empties, it just throws out everything else. I mean, in other words, it's throwing out everything and what's left is just that. I just didn't understand that by another alternative. Yeah, I mean, it's a technical word, okay? I mean, it says, I mean, Tibetan just says like that. It's emptied by something else. So the relative truth, when it's thrown out, in other words... Then you stop emptying altogether. Yeah, there's nothing to empty anymore.

[34:10]

Yeah. But it's just the method or the title which is given to that. Yeah. What is the name of the temple? What is the name of the temple? What is the name of the temple? In India actually there is one great Indian saint by the name of a Sangha who through practice was able to

[35:15]

received teaching therapy from the Bodhisattva Maitreya and at the time of receiving teachings from Maitreya Maitreya taught him five different teachings which are known as the five teachings of Maitreya and in that actually the first three of those which is the first in Sanskrit they're called actually the Marianta Devanga and then also the Sutra Alamkara. These three dealt with the teachings of the mind-only school, dealt with these various aspects, such as the labeling of all things, and then the mind being under the power of others, and then also of the ultimate truth, or the Yom Kippur. And then the fourth book, which was called, these are Sanskrit names, the fourth one was called the Abhisamaya Lankara, which described the various aspects of Prajnaparamita teachings from the hidden aspect of, meaning that not only does it teach on emptiness, but also about the various levels of the path, that what stages of the bodhisattva we have, what types of realization there are, what types of signs of realization there are, the various, like the five paths, the paths of accumulation, of accomplishment, of seeing, of...

[36:42]

beyond teaching or learning. So these various aspects of the Marimika path, according to the Prajnaparamita Sutras, were taught in this Apisamaya Langkara, this fourth book. And in the fifth book which he taught, which was called the Uttara Tantra, or Gyut Lama in Tibetan, deals specifically with this view of emptiness by another school, or this philosophy about how the relative is emptied by the ultimate nature of our own mind. So this was actually the basis for the teachings, especially this book of the Gyu Lama, this was explained and commented upon many times in Tibet and was used by many great Tibetan masters in order to present the view of this empty by another school. And in Tibet itself, actually Rinpoche was just going through a whole list of various lamas from the different sects who had practiced or who had adhered to this school of emptiness by another school and who had gained great

[37:51]

realization from it. And then he mentioned various teachers within the Kargyu tradition, such as previous Karmapas, some of the previous Karmapas, and then also the first Kongtrul Ramuche and others, who had gained great levels of realization and at the same time depended upon this school, which is called the emptiness by another school, Also he mentioned actually the first teacher of this emptiness by another school in Tibet, whose name was Shereb Gyaltsen, who wrote three volumes of teachings on this specific view, this specific philosophical view, and who himself was a great master of the teachings and had great realization. And then also within Sakyapa, one of the greatest teachers of Sakyapa, whose name was... Shakya Chukdin, who actually wrote, I think, about 32 volumes of books, most of which were based on this idea of emptiness by another school, and then also various other teachers in the Nyingma tradition also.

[38:51]

Many people relied upon this and were able to gain various realizations. So, Ramachandra was saying, actually, that this idea of emptiness by another school merits one's attention, merits one to really study it, to try to understand it, and also to employ it in one's practice, because it will enable one also to gain the stages of the path, and leading to liberation. So Rinpoche was saying actually that in this school, actually, the emphasis, what happens is that it is said that the ultimate truth, or the dharmata, in other words, the ultimate reality, is said to pervade all things of this world, which means it actually pervades our mind, pervades the levels of consciousness. And then since our mind is creating this world, the external phenomena of this world, then it pervades everything within this world. So this dharmata, or ultimate reality, is an all-pervading principle which can be found within all.

[39:55]

And this all-pervading principle, or in other words, this ultimate truth, is... something which is true by its own nature, which can be held to be true in its own nature and by its own nature. And this is what is called, according to this school, that which has gone beyond all the extremes of existence or non-existence or both and neither. And this is the name which is also given to that which has gone beyond the extremes. Also, here it's said to be that which can be held to be true. Whereas in the Madhya Mita school it was said actually that even that we cannot say, you cannot hold that even to be true, you cannot hold anything to be true, because that would be a creation of the mind, a functioning of the mind, and the Ultimate Truth goes beyond anything of the grasping mind. So, this principle that the underlying nature of all is something which can ultimately be held to be true, functions because of what is known as the Tathagatagarbha or the seed of enlightenment which is possessed by all of us.

[40:59]

And if we did not possess this Tathagatagarbha or the seed of enlightenment, then there's no way that we could gain liberation or enlightenment because there would be no basis for liberation. Because we have the seed of enlightenment, then if we actually enter into the path, if we create the thought of enlightenment, in other words, create the enlightenment thought, enter into the path working for the sake of sentient beings, if we enter into the path which performs or practices the six paramitas or six perfections, then we can gain, through realization, the true nature of the mind or the ultimate truth. And this is only possible if there's a basis of having this Tathagatagarbha or seed of enlightenment within us to begin with. So for that reason it's very important that we see that. And it was taught in many, many scriptures. Rinpoche named a number of these, such as the Avatamsaka Sutras, which possess four different volumes, and the Konsek Sutras, which possess six volumes, and one other collection of sutras, actually, which contains 32 volumes.

[42:13]

And all these mention there this idea of the Tathagatagarbha or the seat of enlightenment that we do possess. So Rinpoche said it's important that we understand that, and with understanding that, that we have the potential or the possibility of gaining enlightenment because we do have that seed, then we need to work for it. And Rinpoche said actually there's a lot of confusion among many people, among many schools also, that some people say, okay, things are emptied by something else and there's an ultimate truth which we can hold on to, or there's something which we can ultimately say is true. And there's other schools, other people say, no, we cannot say like that at all, there's nothing which we can hold on to, there's nothing which is true by its own nature, such as the Marimika school. And Ramoche said it's better to, he said he cannot say which is a good school and which is a bad school, he said it's better that we don't. hold on to that view, that we see them in equanimity, that both are good. And he said, in any case, what we should do as a basis is just maintain what is called pure vision, that we see things, the things that we see around us really are just like images which arise in a dream, or images, visions which appear in a magic creation, or like the water of a mirage.

[43:31]

that all these, though they're seen, they cannot be held to be true. And this is, you cannot grasp them, you cannot hold from the vision of an emitter. The reflection of an emitter, you cannot grab it. Though it's there, it's empty by its own nature. It's not something you can physically grab and hold it like that. So, Rumi said, actually, this pure vision that we should just maintain in order to gain the various stages of enlightenment, this is important to do as a basis of one's practice. And See you soon. I'm going to cut it into small pieces.

[44:37]

I'm going to cut it into small pieces. I'm cutting it into small pieces. The Buddha himself said, those who understand, who are very great scholars, very great practitioners, who understand what are the teachings, for example, of the direct path leading to enlightenment, what are the indirect teachings leading to enlightenment, what is the nature of things. With that kind of understanding, with their great understanding of the teachings as they really are, those people, if they enter into the Vajrayana path, they will gain very quickly the state of realization of ultimate enlightenment. Or another person who does not have great wisdom, who's not a fool at the same time, but who doesn't understand the teachings as they are, who has very great faith in the teachings, believes in them with great faith, tries to practice according to his abilities based on this pure faith, will also be able to gain the stage of enlightenment in a very short time or at some time.

[45:42]

He said, those people who have a lot of discrimination, who are always discriminating, have a discriminating mind, who are saying, oh, this is good, this is no good, I should do like this, you shouldn't do like that, or I shouldn't do like this, I shouldn't do like this, I should take this, I shouldn't take that. These type of people who are always discriminating, there's no hope to gain enlightenment. So, Rinpoche just gave a story, he said actually one time there was one practitioner of the Dharma in China, he was noticed by some gods in the realm of form. Actually, we say for the gods realms, the realm of desire, the realm of form, the formless realm. So some gods from the realm of form, from a higher realm, came to him and said, oh, you're already you're a very great practitioner of the Dharma, so please bestow upon us the refuge vows, the vows of refuge for entering into the Buddhist religion.

[46:44]

And this monk then gave them the vows of refuge, and then he noticed that these people walked a bit differently, that they didn't act really like ordinary people act. He said, you're very strange people, you don't really act like people, you're not a man, are you? You're not real people. And they said, no, we're not people, we're actually from the realm of form, the heavenly realm of form. And having heard of your, or having noticed your great moral conduct, we decided to come here in order to receive the vows of refuge from you. And this monk thought, well, if these beings are from the realm of form, well, the heavenly realms, they have some supernatural perceptions or consciousness that they can see the future, they can see the past. So he said to them, oh, he said, if you're from these realms, this realm of the gods, then you must be able to see the future. You must have some precognitions about the future and the past and like this. So he asked them, he said, what's going to happen to me in my next life?

[47:45]

So they said, yeah, we have some ability to see the future. We can predict in this manner. And then they said, actually, you actually, after you pass away, you're going to be born in hell. So he got a little upset, and he said, how is it that I'm going to be born in hell if I'm a good practitioner of the Buddha's teaching, I hold my moral conduct purely as you have said? They said, actually, the reason is because though you act in a pure way, you're really a follower of the Hinayana path. And not only that, but also you're always telling other people Hinayana is good and Mahayana is no good, and you should practice like this, and you ought to give up that kind of teaching and that kind of path. So they said, because of this, you're discriminating mind in this manner. You're going to be born in hell after this life. So he became very upset, agitated. So he asked them, what should I do in order to overcome this? So they said actually there's many Mahayana scriptures, such as the Samadhi Raja Sutra, the Avatamsaka Sutra, and other Mahayana texts. They said you should study those, understand them, create, produce faith in the Mahayana, and then expound those teachings to others.

[48:53]

So being very afraid of being born in hell, he took their advice, he read these sutras, received teachings on them, understood them to a very good degree, and then expounded them to many others. and then after that time these gods once again came to him after he had started expanding and created faith in the Mahayana and they said, oh now this is very good you've really entered into the path and now you've understood the Mahayana teachings and you're explaining them to others and based on this actually you will be able to gain a very good rebirth and you will have a good path leading to enlightenment so they said, this is very good so Ramaji said for this reason, that those people who discriminate about the different teachings, like emptiness by itself or emptiness by another, or those who say, oh, Hargib was good and Sake is no good, or Sake is good and Hargib was no good, or Nim was good, or Giluk was good, or whatever kind of discrimination, is that this is very poor thoughts, because it's only going to lead to trouble for oneself.

[49:57]

as the Rinpoche referred to that quote again, saying that anyone who discriminates in this way, seeing things as good or bad or just choosing things in this manner, is only leading oneself to trouble. So that one should see all things, all the teachings in equanimity as being equal, that they are all equal paths leading to enlightenment and practice from this point of view. He said this is very necessary and very important. Are they the same thing or just dogataw because they pervade all so inanimate things somehow? I mean, the dogataw goblin is said to pervade all sentient beings, isn't he? What is the distinction between that and dogataw? In Cheung Nhi it's the legionship of Nyingba, capital Nyingba. In Cheung Nhi it's the legionship of Nyingba.

[51:01]

The merging together of the Awareness and Binnus mind, this Namdul merging together so you cannot separate them to their same net manner. There is no distinction between the two. There's no distinction between why the two works and also Sukhothi Garbhams and also Sukhothi Garbhams Sukhothi Garbhams? Yeah, I love it Kaprameng had a sikmi song, a big khayana song Chuliyat song he does, Dejan Shekpa Nyingwa song he does Dejan Shekpa Nyingwa song he does, [...] Dejan Asadya Bhadra Tungungwa, Ma Tha Nyuwa Nanguti, Mitaze Hulaiya, Sen Zonze Nge Duryo, Ndi Ge Nikala, Nang Dukta, Tha Mape Nakhto, Ma Ndi Ge Zonze Ge Boko, Ndi Sen Zonze Nge Duryo, Nnamshi, Sen Zonze Nge Duryo, Ndi Zonze Nge Duryo, Ndi Zonze Nge Duryo, Ndi Sen Zonze Nge Duryo, Ndi Sen Zonze Nge Duryo,

[52:24]

If you don't believe in God, you will not be able to do anything. [...] Kali mumbo-jjani seti ahtiang kore. Oman nana mara yorete, maa teli teli, kali mumbo-jjani mara teli nang kore. Meto go nana dronzo yorete, teli mba drumi ki teli nang, teli teli teli teli, mumbo-jjani dronzo dronzo teli nang. Teli nandar kwa sain kintang, ki le chepe odo kyunyi ti. Dehi ji. Chepe yoreta, ni ka zon zon kutruvi drumi, pan taji pare. A lang nyansa nang, zon jitu sain ki, teli. If you don't believe in it, don't believe in it.

[53:30]

If you don't believe in it, don't believe in it. If you believe in it, don't believe in it. If you don't believe in it, don't believe in it. He said actually they're absolutely the same He said it's like you have milk and then you work with the milk What did he say? You do something to it and you can extract butter from it Or if you have a flower with honey in it, then the bee comes and extracts the honey from the flower. Or if you have stone, which within it has gold, and then you purify it, you clear it, then the gold is extracted from it.

[54:38]

It's there right from the very beginning. It's just as butter is within the milk or honey is within the flower. So also, all sentient beings are pervaded by the dharmata, or the ultimate truth. And this ultimate truth is just what is called the Dejna Shekha Nimo, or the Tathagatagarbha. So it's no difference. It's just what some people call. In an impure form, we call it something else, like the mind. or we call it milk. And then when you purify it, when you work with it, when you enter into the path, when you perform the practices, when you do enter into the samadhis, understand the wisdom, then you'll extract it and you see the nature of mind is its own nature, the true nature of mind. Then that true nature of mind is what's been pervaded by from the very beginning, which is called the dharmata, the ultimate truth, or telling true nature, or... the Tathagatagarbha or Sugatagarbha or whatever you want to call it So this here, according to this Maidani school is called that which we accept to be which is held to be the ultimate truth It's also Yom Jubte It's Yom Jubte Here in Yom Jubte, after we went to Kumbhidema in Yom Jubte, there was a Yom Jubte in Kumbhidema

[55:55]

I have one other question. Excuse me. Yes, hi. How is it that in Kunta, how is it that it demonstrates that the duality within the sphere of relative truth is incorrect? In as much as if duality, I mean, if duality disappears, then of course that's ultimate truth, isn't it? So how can duality be seen to be incorrect from the standpoint of relative truth, since relative truth is entirely based on duality? I think that means the outer things are only created by subject and object. So we have to bring it to the mind that creates it. And then that mind which creates it then has to be examined to see that the mind The mind is the creating function, or has the creating function of creating this world, or it has the function of creating enlightenment. So first of all, the outer things that we perceive to be true as outside things are not true, because they're only created by this duality of subject-not.

[57:05]

So it's an outside function, it's a mind function with outside things, it's creating these things to be true when they're not true, as outside phenomena. But if the mind is only true, and then we look at the nature of mind, to see how it is actually that either creator of the world from its own inner aspect or it's the ultimate truth. So the outside thing of this kunta right from the very beginning is false. It's an illusory appearance. The language process. Yeah. It's different from saying that duality is from the standpoint of relative truth. So I don't see how duality from the standpoint of relative truth can be regarded as falsehoods or relative truth based on duality. It's not how I have been in the process of talking about the... Try it again.

[58:11]

What I understood you to say was that from the standpoint of relative truth, the notion of Kuntag is from the standpoint of relative truth that duality is in itself an incorrect notion or is incorrect and it doesn't stand out within the sphere of the truth. Outer creations of the relative truth, such as like this thing, the table, something like that, these are created by subject-outward duality. And those by themselves are just illusory. They're not real. They're just labeled to be so. We give it the name table when really there's no table to be there. So you're talking about the labeling process as opposed to the thing in itself or its conditional reality. Well, even the thing in its own conditional reality is only created by our label. If there's no label, there's no thing out there. You can have a perception of something without labeling it, though. We don't. We don't. But it's possible. Well, then that's when you take into the next step of this, what is called the power by another, or searching the mind.

[59:18]

You can make some clear words. Maybe I misunderstood you. If you're just saying that the labor process is... Labeling gives the truth to this thing when actually that thing doesn't have any truth except by the label we give it. So you're saying that more or less by the logic of relative truth you can destroy the notion of duality. It doesn't mean that from the standpoint of relative truth there is no duality. It seems once you posit relative truth there has to be duality otherwise there wouldn't be any relative truth. How can you have relative truth without duality? Did I misunderstand what you said? What I also think, this is why I'm explaining myself, is that actually maybe we can say there's two levels of relative truth also. one which is created by mind, and one which the mind creates and makes these outside things also. And we give those outside things truth, when actually that's just a labeling process.

[60:26]

So that's a false notion of the mind's creation. Whereas here we want to see what, like he's saying, is the mind which is functioning without the labeling process first. We're coming back a step to get to that. And see, that is the creation of the relative truth. Okay. Without going a step further and say, okay, this is table, this is this, this is that. It's a further breaking down of subliminal dichotomy. Make sense? Well, it doesn't make much sense. How can there be any mind's function without what it functions? How can you go back? What's the question there? The question is, what I understood you to say, maybe you didn't say it, maybe I'm just open. What I understood you to say was that from the standpoint that duality within the context of value of truth was incorrect.

[61:27]

Why? My question is, since all relative truth is based on duality, how can you count duality not existing in the context of relative truth? Well, for example, if you see a snake where there's a rope, I mean, within the relative truth, that snake was never there to start with, even inside relative truth. So that's a false creation of relative truth. The rope is there. That's relative. Yeah, but once the rope disappears... No, the rope is still there even when you understand it's not a snake anymore. Yeah, but then there's no relative truth. Then you have all the truth. No, we're still talking about in the relative spirit there's a snake. I mean, there's a rope. Then you're talking about this label. In relative truth, there's two types of relative truth. One is what we see as a, what you call, I mean, we see these things, you see.

[62:28]

We call it correct or, what you call, true relative truth. And then there's another thing that you see, you see something false. That is false within relative truth. There's two types of relative truth. Just like, what is correctly... So that means, you see, non-duality... Or duality can have, I mean duality, duality, how do you say, duality can be incorrect even in the, what do you call it? Relativity. Relativity, too. But isn't the seed neither one of them? Yeah. The seed neither one? Yeah, I mean, you keep going back to the real truth, the ultimate truth, you know. Right. But our problem here is saying that even these outer things we hold to be true. So we're so far out, our mind is functioning in such an out-far, far-flung-out way that even things that are absolutely not true, we even hold them to be true.

[63:30]

So we're that far away. What we want to do is bring our mind back into itself and then cut off one level of truth or one level of falsehood to get to one level of truth. Cut off that truth to find that that's a falsehood to get to the next level of truth and then find the mind in its own true nature. Is this question for you? I never asked. We'll try later. You can't ask him, Shane. All right. What words do you want to use? I'm not going to get through. I'm not sure. It's difficult because maybe you make the problem. You're just saying that in the relative truth, what? I understood that all relative truth was based on Well, I didn't understand that there could be any relative truth if there was no duality. And what you're saying is even within relative truth, duality is untrue. Well, I think we simplify things to make sure that Lama Tashi has the right idea.

[64:38]

We ask for Bishay to repeat what he said about the labeling process being in doubt. Just to be honest. It wasn't the labeling process being in doubt. That's easy to understand. What is it? [...] He said it's a false creation of mind that there is this dichotomy of subject and object within the route of truth is false. He said within the route of truth?

[65:39]

Yeah. What would the truth be if it says within the route of truth? Kunjūp nāngā. Kunjūp nāngā. Well, I don't think it's true. Tathagata Samprasantam, Nantukulandam, Mandatari, Nyambapatau, Nantukulandam, Nantukulandam, Mamboji, Nguriya. That's why they are called Nantukulandam. [...] I don't understand. Human can be controlled. Human can do everything. Is it right? What you just asked means that you may have concept muted it. Yeah, that's the question. If there's no duality, is there realms of truth? What? What do you mean? He said it's Shenwang which means actually the All-Based Consciousness Which is still relative to it I don't know Shenwang, what did you say?

[66:51]

It's what? It's still relative to it Shenwang, what did you say? It's still relative to it Until you... Until you... When I was a child, my father was a monk. He [...] was a monk.

[67:51]

When I was a child, I used to go to school, and [...] I used to go to school, They will say, what's wrong with you? Tell me what it is. They will say, such and such. They will say, what's wrong with you? They will say, what's wrong with you? They will say, what's wrong with you? As long as you don't realize the nature of mind, then you have the relative truth. And when you realize the ultimate nature of mind, then you don't have the relative truth.

[69:40]

Okay? Like that. So he says, just like when you look at milk, though there's butter there, you always see milk. You don't see the butter. And then when you work at it, when you accomplish it, or what do you say? Work at it. Turn the milk. Do something with the milk. You get the butter out of it. So it's always there. Also, this mind is always there. And when we don't accomplish it, when we don't work with it, we don't practice, we don't enter into the path, we don't churn the mind, then we have this world. And then when we churn the mind, we take the extract out of it, we get the real nature of the mind, the mind itself, then we have the ultimate truth. So then without this, so what Guruji said is, then there is the false aspect of the relative truth. Then what we have then within this relative truth is this mind, is the creator of the relative truth. Then when we enter into the path, work to enter the stages of enlightenment, go from the first stage up to the five levels or paths of enlightenment, such as the path of entering, the path of accumulating, the path of seeing, like this, then this mind, which we always thought or held to be true as being the relative truth, then disappears and we see its own true nature, its own transcendental wisdom, its own primordial awareness.

[71:10]

And this is the ultimate truth then. So, Rinpoche is saying, at the time of meditating, when we try to look at the nature of mind, we don't hold on to thoughts, past thoughts, we don't hold on to future thoughts, but we look at the mind just as it is in this very moment. And then at that time we say, oh, we see the mind, this is the mind itself. He said, that's the reality of truth still. You have to realize the ultimate truth here. And when you don't grasp at that, the mind just rests in its own nature without saying anything. You can go out and say, oh, this is this, this is that. then we have the ultimate truth. And this is the path, actually, Rinpoche was very fond of, from the Lama Dei teachings of Sakyatala, which explains like this. When we enter into that, though we call it, this is mind itself, this is the ultimate truth. When we're used to things like that, we're sexualizing like that, that we don't see. And that's still the ultimate truth, without realm, because it's the mind functioning by itself. But then we create that, we hold onto that, our own mind.

[72:14]

So until that rests in its own nature, until that just subsides, until we take the butter out of the milk, until we see the true nature of mind in its own resting state, which is not contrived, which is not made, which is not created, then this is the ultimate truth. At the point prior to understanding it's true nature, then it's still non-dual. But it's also non-dual. There's a story of the tin bull story, and I'm told there's also an elephant story that looks like this thing, you know, where the bull is the vine, and he looks for his vine, and he probably gets on the bull, and he's turning backwards, and he can shoot with the bull.

[73:16]

on the bull's back, and he gets the bull, and the guy, he gets the bull from the corral, and he's standing on his porch, and that's about number seven, and then number eight or nine, he's standing in, then there's no bull, and no person, and there's just nature, or nature, period. And the last part, do you, are you familiar with this story? The whole story? I've seen some pictures on it. Really? I've seen some pictures. No bull. It's where a bull and a guy are fighting. And the night picture is the chase. There's one teaching that says, you know, when you realize the nature of mind, then it's as if there never was any bewildering and that, you know, it's like waking up from a dream and everything's completely gone.

[74:20]

And so would that be the Shentong process or is that wrong thought? You see what I mean? Yeah, I'm just trying to think of the words for it. Yeah. Yeah, from the beginning. Yeah. What do you say? I don't know what to say. [...] I don't think he's just saying it goes, I mean

[75:38]

The ultimate truth goes beyond all extremes, so you can't say it's this or it's that. He said, actually, when the Buddha, when Pada Latisha went to Tibet, many Tibetans asked him, does the Buddha have the mind of transcendental knowledge, wisdom? He said, I'm not a Buddha, so I don't know what he's got. But in any case, he said, actually, this transcendental knowledge, which is attained through self-realization, it goes beyond extremes, you know, conceptualizing. Thank you. But is that transcendental wisdom? Is that the ultimate? Is that what the nature of it is? Does it have any intention at all? Is the nature of it the transcendental wisdom which is beyond? No, does it have a meaning? You saw it being empty. Does it have that quality of transcendental wisdom? You meant the transcendental wisdom. Could you say that was in a way synonymous with the ultimate? Yes, there's another name for that. Sometimes it's called... Sometimes it's called the ultimate truth.

[76:53]

These are different names. Sometimes it's called... In Tibetan or Sanskrit, there's many words which point to the same thing. I don't want to speak in depth answer to this question. I'm curious. You mentioned that there was direct paths to enlightenment, indirect paths. I've never heard of indirect path to enlightenment. What's... Do you just have them sort of explaining what that is or are there certain key points? Like tonight Rinpoche explained when the Buddha taught about the law of karma that you should do good deeds because good deeds or virtuous deeds will lead to a good result and bad deeds will lead to a result of suffering That's a teaching that if you follow that by itself, you cannot get enlightenment. But it helps you take the next step on your way to enlightenment. So those kind of teachings which don't go direct, it gets you there, but like this, they're quite indirect. And the one that's direct, say, the nature of mind is this, that's part of direct teaching. So that's the distinction. And all the scriptures of the Buddha are divided into those two ideas. Does emptiness of mind mean the same as receptiveness?

[77:57]

Yes. How do you stay receptive? You be receptive rather than empty. Is that what it's meant by? I don't know. I'm trying to think of the word into that. She's saying receptive means to... Receptive. Ready to receive the teachings and the information. I don't know how to say it. I don't know how to say it. I don't know if that answers her question. What Rinpoche is saying actually, the nature of mind has actually two aspects which are merged together.

[79:19]

One is the knowledge of mind, one is the empty aspect of mind. And these two are non-dually merged together. So that the nature of mind is actually empty. And that emptiness we must understand. We must search the mind to understand that emptiness of mind. And when we understand the nature of mind to be empty, then that knowledge, that awareness of mind and the emptiness of mind are completely merged together. In its perfect form it's empty. Are you saying in its perfect form it's empty but it can be quite a cluttered mind and therefore not receptive to the teachings? This is what I mean by receptive. It's not full of other things. What Rinpoche is referring to is the true nature of mind from the ultimate point of view. So you don't have to be receptive to teaching, right? You've already realized the teaching at that point. I mean, this is from the ultimate point of view. What you're asking, I think, is from a relative point of view.

[80:27]

I mean, emptiness, also, Rinpoche was saying the other day, all the appearances of this world, by their nature, they're empty. But emptiness is not separate from those appearances. So all things in this world appear like a dream, like the vision in a dream, or like a creation in a magical illusion. Though we see it, it's not true in its own nature. It's empty of any truth in itself. So the mind is receptive. There's a functioning of mind. But that mind which functions, which has awareness, is empty by its own nature. That's the nature of mind. But that emptiness of mind and its functioning cannot be separated from each other. You can't find one without the other, or separate from the other. They're completely non-dual, merged together I guess I'm envisioning the mind as the thing that you put things into ideas, concepts, whatever I was born in the village [...]

[81:32]

If you look at the mind, it has no color, it has no shape, it has no form But the one who's looking at the mind is the awareness of mind And that looker, the one who's looking for the mind to find out what color, what shape is empty by its own nature So we cannot separate the one who looks for the mind and that looker also to be empty of anything. Or in other words, it is ultimately empty by itself, empty of its own true nature. So these two we cannot separate. Just like you cannot take fire and put it one place and put the heat of the fire another place and say these are two different things. You'll never find heat separate from fire or fire separate from heat. It's like a perception, isn't it? Well, here it's called the true awareness of mind and the true awareness of mind is not separate from being empty of having a shape, a color, something that you can use perceptions on or conceptualizations You can't conceive it because once you conceive, then you don't see its own true nature I tell you, it's so-so, you know It's not much of a movie, you know

[82:57]

It's a good test. In order to understand that, he says, first you have to accumulate much merit and wisdom, and we must have great faith in Guru.

[83:59]

And then that shouldn't just happen for one day or two days, but along with great faith, along with accumulations of matter and wisdom, looking at the nature of mind for many, many, many days, many years even. And eventually, this awareness or this realization will arise within yourself. It's not something given from outside. And then Rinpoche was saying, oh, this is it now, I've got it. But it comes after a lot of accumulations of matter, a lot of accumulations of faith in the Guru and a lot of practice. Do you regret what I do? I don't regret it. And I can't get this at all.

[85:12]

I think I want to die. I can't get this at all. I can't get this at all. Choir singing. Oh, my God. Thank you.

[86:17]

Oh, my God. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, then we shall build them by thine, cause by your light we keep them by thine. By your light, so that your name will be sung, yes, by the light we keep them by thine. Then by your way, and as I was done, then the light you done, then by you, then by your light, and with the healing and the light you done.

[87:45]

Thank you. Thank you. Chant Chant Te ava gyö gyö satsa gyö pete B'nelyu'ma sygna ma gyö gyö La gyö'rgana ha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha'gha

[89:02]

Long remain among us, O Master of doctrines vast and illuminer of teachings that reveal the joy of transcendent wisdom. The second Maitreya, a loving son among teachers, you are for all beings a protector endowed with wisdom, compassion, and power. Ever may your mind be adorned by the three codes of purest vows, coursing to the end of all study, reflection and meditation. May you increase in every way your holy works, explaining, discussing and showing to us the way. May your body of illusion remain for hundreds of years. and all your wishes spontaneously become fulfilled. Let the sun of the teachings of holy Sakya and of its masters of wisdom may shine throughout the worlds. Sun among speakers, live long to ripen the lotus fields, the teachings of great compassion, and purvey to the ends of every direction your realizations, your knowledge, and your holy deeds.

[90:03]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_64.51