The Third Turning of the Wheel of Dharma Lecture by the Venerable Daisheng Rinpoche Friday, February 8, 1985 Kargyu Dona Choleng For those of you recording this tape, the lecture starts after approximately three and a half minutes' worth of music. so

[03:06]

I'm not saying this is very difficult, but just that we're able to hear it means we're very fortunate that we can hear the names of these divisions of the teachings. It plants a seed in us, actually, that we have the capacity later to study it in its proper way, in a very detailed form. and we'll be able to understand it. Lung Che was just describing himself, how he had studied the various Madhyamika schools, and these teachings are actually a very slow process, I mean, one piece at a time, over a very long period, from many different teachers. So, it takes a long time to really understand it in its proper perspective. Anyway, from what I can understand what Lung Che was saying, First of all, I feel the bodhisattvi moni through practicing in previous lifetimes for three uncountable eons, practiced the various teachings and practices underwent the various studies and meditations, especially accumulating merit and transcendental wisdom in order to gain the stage of full and perfect enlightenment.

[05:49]

So having worked for these countless eons, and eventually he was able to gain the stage of full and perfect enlightenment, He was able to gain the stage of accomplishment of the two bodies of the dharmakāyā and the rūpa-kāyā, or sambhogakāyā and nirmāna-kāyā. And he was able to come to understanding of the ultimate truth, of the true nature of all things. And in order to help other sentient beings, he took the most excellent type of nirmāna-kāyā, or emanation body, which emanated here in this world, in India, more than two thousand years ago. And there, taking birth in India, then he went through the various deeds, what are known as the twelve deeds of the Buddha, of showing the path to enlightenment, of gaining enlightenment under the Bodhi tree, and then working for sentient beings by turning the wheel of the Dharma, or teaching the various aspects of the truth. And he did this primarily through turning the wheel of the Dharma, or speaking on three different aspects of the Dharma.

[06:54]

The first aspect was called, the first turning of the wheel of the dharma was at Varanasi when he taught the four truths to those who were primarily motivated by the lower path or the Hinayana path of seeking self-liberation. And for them, especially at the time of teaching the four truths, he primarily emphasized the teachings on karma, or deeds and result, the effects of doing various virtuous or non-virtuous deeds, and the result for one within this world, or how to gain liberation from this world. And this was actually called a teaching which leads indirectly to understanding the truth, or the teaching indirectly leading to liberation. Then on a second occasion, to countless beings of the various classes of Buddhist practitioners, such as monks, nuns, novice monks and nuns, lay people, and also to countless other realized beings, different bodhisattvas, and also to different heavenly beings,

[08:06]

He taught at the Vulture's Peak in Rajgir, the teachings of the three aspects of the truth, which were known as the empty aspect, the wishless aspect and the signless aspect, referring to the cause of various dharmas by their nature were empty, that the path itself by its own nature was signless, and that the result by its own nature was wishless. And, in other words, he taught at that time that all dharmas, by their very nature, all things concerning oneself or other internal or external phenomena, are by their own nature, by their own self, empty of any truth. They're completely void of any true nature in their own in their own nature, in their own being. So being completely devoid of any true nature, of something we can grasp to be true, all these phenomena were seen to be completely devoid of the four extremes, the four conceptualizing extremes which the mind produces that it holds everything to be either existent or nonexistent, or both existent and nonexistent, or neither existent nor nonexistent.

[09:19]

and seeing all things to be completely devoid of any true nature in themselves, then this goes beyond this understanding or this realization then of the true nature of things, goes beyond the conceptualizing mind, it goes beyond or transcends the thinking mind, and it understands the truth as it is in itself, which cannot be grasped by our ordinary way of expressing things, but can only be realized through one's own meditation, realized within oneself. Then on the third occasion, the Buddha taught what was known as the teaching which well analyzes various aspects of the Dharma. This is sort of the name of the teaching, which well defines or well analyzes all the various Dharmas, such as the mind or external phenomena. And here this teaching was both for the benefit not only of Mahayanas but also of Inayanas of both the schools or anyone who was practicing the various paths of Buddha's teaching.

[10:22]

And on various occasions the Buddha taught this. He said to be taught in the area called Malaya in India. Also the Buddha taught this in various heavenly realms to the gods there and also in India in other places such as Vaisala and other areas. And what happened was that because of the first teaching, some people, the Buddha emphasized actually that first of all, there is this five aggregates. There is this body and the mind and feelings, perceptions and consciousness and predispositions. And he taught that in order that one should understand that they're there so that we can abandon them. That in other words, one would believe in the law of karma, that there is the practice of deeds and that these deeds, whether virtuous or non-virtuous, will have an effect. they will hurt one or help one or cause suffering to one or cause happiness. So basically he taught this about the aggregates in order for people to understand the teachings of karma so that they could overcome leading themselves into paths of suffering and would be able to gain stages of liberation.

[11:29]

And then, not only that, but then, I mean, from that step, then the Buddha taught that actually also these aggregates are not true by their own nature, they're empty. But what happened was that many people, when they heard about the five aggregates, then they held that to be true, due to their own ignorance or their own dispositions, so they fell into the extreme, what is known as eternalism. In order to overcome that, the Buddha taught the second teaching, which dealt primarily with the negative aspect of the nature of all things, that all things are not true in their own nature, that they're non-existent, as we believe them to be. So, during the second teaching, he taught these aspects of the empty nature of things, the signless nature of things, and also the wishless nature of things, so that people would see that it's not proper to hold on to these five aggregates to be true, not even proper to hold on to karma to be true, that all things by their own nature were empty, devoid of any true existence. But again, what happened here was that some people held this to be true, this negative aspect was true, holding on to this thought, then they fell into another extreme, which is called the extreme of nihilism.

[12:40]

Though it was an improper reaction or improper understanding on their part, still holding on to this teaching of emptiness, then they fell into the nihilistic extreme. Whereas in the first teaching, holding on to the aggregates or karma to be true, they fell into the eternalistic extreme. So they're going on the wrong paths. In other words, though the teaching was brought given to them in a proper form, they held something to be true, whether negative or positive, and then went off in the wrong direction due to that. So in order to correct this, then the Buddha taught the third teaching here, which is known as well analyzing the various aspects of phenomena. And he taught this in order that all those who would neither fall into this extreme of holding things or grasping things to be true, nor grasping things or holding things to be not true, or empty, in a negative sense, he taught this third teaching. And this actually was divided into three aspects. And these words, actually, they're technical words and pretty hard to...

[13:44]

give an English equivalent. The first one is called Kuntah, which means, in Sanskrit it's called Parikapita, which means actually to label all things or to give a name to everything, or labeling all or ascribing a name to everything. It's a technical word, I mean, we'll try to explain what it means. The second aspect was called Shenwang, in Tibetan it's called Shenwang, or in Sanskrit it's called Paritantra, which literally means actually under the power of another. And the third aspect was called YONGGRU, in Tibetan it's called YONGGRU, or in Sanskrit it's called PARINISHVANA, which means basically the ultimate truth, or... Yeah, we just call it the ultimate truth, the easiest. So these three aspects of ascribing or labeling names to everything, of seeing all things to be under the power of another, and also the ultimate truth, were taught in various different sutras by the Buddha himself.

[14:50]

They were taught in one collection called the Konsek It's a collection of six different sutras or six different volumes from the Tripitaka and they include actually more than 30 different short sutras and there these teachings on these three aspects of this third teaching were taught. Also at the time of the Samadhi Raja Sutra, this was taught in the Sutra of the Tathagata Garbha. It was also taught and in a number of other places, a number of other sutras. Not only this idea about the three aspects of analyzing how we can analyze this world but also about the nature that each person individually possesses what is known as the essence of enlightenment or the Tathagatagarbha or the seed of enlightenment within each one of us. This theory also was taught at the time of these various sutras Now, if we look at each one of these separately, first of all, we refer to this idea of kunta, or the labeling of things.

[16:05]

First of all, this refers to what is known as the relative truth. Within the relative truth, all things which are arisen due to a subject-object dichotomy or a false understanding of the mind, splitting it into believing there is a subject which perceives and an object which is perceived, so that we have this idea of an eye who perceives an object which is perceived, and this act of perception this subject-object dichotomy here is described to be false, it's not even true, within the relative sphere, so that within the relative sphere, all these things which we give a name to, which we place a name, we label them, we hold them to be true, due to having a subject and due to having an object, placing an object, placing a name on an object, placing a name on a subject which precedes them, This, by its own nature, is just false. It's false because it's created by a misconception or ignorance here.

[17:06]

So this illusory mind, or this illusory functioning mind, which creates this subject-object dichotomy, even within the relative sphere, is just false. It's not true. So, by itself, it's just empty of any nature on its own. The next step of understanding the mind is called here. the name is given, actually, jenwang, or by the power of another, this actually refers to recognizing the mind, what the mind is in its various aspects. Especially here it refers to the eighth level of consciousness, which is known as the all-based consciousness, or the alaya vijnana, or in Tibetan it's called the kunshi. And basically, first this recognizes the various levels of

[18:07]

or various levels of consciousness, which mean actually that the mind is divided into eight levels of consciousness. The first six referring to the consciousness for each of the six organs of perception, such as the eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness, tongue consciousness, body consciousness, and mind consciousness. So these are called the lower types of consciousness within these eight. The seventh one is called the mind of afflictions, or the mind of defilement consciousness, which means actually that based on these first six, as these function, then we believe that there is some kind of I which is doing all this work behind this. And this type of I has its own basis in the mind, its own consciousness, and this is what we call the mind of defilements or the mind of afflictions consciousness. And then above that also, we have then the eighth consciousness, which is called the alaya-vijnana, or the all-based consciousness, which means actually that all things of this world, whether the outside world, such as the various phenomena which arise, the world of existence with all its happiness and unhappiness, the world of

[19:27]

dharma, with entering the path and accomplishing the path, these are actually based on this all-based mind, this eighth consciousness. And also, the various seeds of enlightenment, or the various aspects of the truth, or of liberation itself, such as Buddhahood, such as the various stages of the different types of enlightenment, are also based on the same higher consciousness, or this same alaya-vijnana. So that, in other words, this alaya-vijnana, or this eighth consciousness, is called the all-base because it is the basis for this world, as well as being the basis for liberation, or the basis of Buddhahood itself. And there's no distinction between them. When we don't recognize this all-base consciousness in its true nature, what happens is the mind creates, it tricks itself or it starts to delude itself into believing that there is this I and there is these outside things and then it creates this labeling of all things.

[20:32]

So this is actually working from, starting from this all-based consciousness and then misunderstanding its nature and then functioning or creating this world as we see it. Again, when we understand this all-based consciousness in its true nature, when we see it in its true form, when we recognize that this all-based consciousness by itself is devoid of the extremes, is devoid of existence or nonexistence, or both existence and nonexistence, neither existence nor nonexistence, when we see... how it is in its own nature. Here actually what happens is this all-base, this very all-base then transforms into transcendental knowledge or transforms into wisdom because we're uncovering its true nature. What happens is actually that the true nature of the all-base right from the very beginning

[21:34]

from beginningless time has been there. It's its own primordial wisdom, its own primordial awareness nature. However, temporarily, it's been covered over by defilements or afflictions, it's been covered over by ignorance, and this is not its true nature, because it's just a covering, it's not its nature, it's just something that covers over it, and once we're able to get rid of that, then this consciousness itself is then seen, or transforms itself then into what is known as the transcendental knowledge, or it sees its own primordial wisdom, or primordial awareness wisdom, and This here, according to this system, is called to be true by its own nature. And this is where especially it differentiates from the Madhyamika school, which we described earlier, because the Madhyamika school said everything, whether relative or ultimate, by its own nature is empty. By its own nature it's not true.

[22:36]

There's nothing that can be grasped to be true. Here the distinction is that when we understand this ultimate nature of the alaya-vijnana, or this all-based mind, then we see that this all-based mind is in itself permanent, it's unchangeable, and then it also is something that we can tell to be the ultimate truth. So this is a major distinction we have. And this ultimate truth then, when we see this all-based mind, this alaya-vijnana, actually here it says that it's not emptied by itself. Whereas in the Madhyamika school we said that the all-based mind, everything we have in this world, whether relative or ultimate, by itself is just empty of any truth. But here it is said actually that this all-based mind, that this covering over of the all-based mind is emptied. by the ultimate truth. It's taken away, in a sense, by the ultimate truth. So it's emptied by another. And the school that arose out of this idea was called the Jain tomba, or emptied by another school, or the thought, which is called emptied by another.

[23:39]

Whereas the first one, like in the Marimika school, was said, be called emptied by itself, that everything by itself, by its own nature, is empty. Here we're saying actually that this mind, this all-based mind, is emptied by the ultimate truth, or it's emptied by the awareness of transcendental wisdom. So, what this means then, is that this all-based mind, right from the very beginning, from primordial time, from the time before time, in other words, that we cannot find any beginning of this mind, any beginning of this world. From the beginning of this time, this mind has always been pure by its own nature, just as always the sky by its own nature is pure. But then, just as the sky, maybe some dust particles will fly into it, It means actually, in a sense, that the sky is covered by these dust particles, but it doesn't change the nature of the sky itself, because the sky is still empty like that.

[24:40]

And when we take away the dust, then we can see still the sky is just empty as it always was right from the very beginning. So also our own mind, right from the very beginning, has the Buddha nature. Our own mind right from the very beginning is the Buddha. in that our nature and the Buddha's nature are completely non-different. There's absolutely no difference between our own mind and the Buddha's mind, or the nature of our own mind, the ultimate nature of our own mind, and the ultimate nature of the Buddha's mind. Right from the very beginning, there's absolutely no difference. The difference between our mind and the Buddha's mind is the Buddha is uncovered. his own true nature, this realization of the true nature of his own mind has been seen, whereas we ourselves, our mind is still, our true nature, our Buddha nature is still covered over by these adventitious afflictions and defilements and we do not see how it is in its own true nature, how it's been from the very beginning. Many of the great teachers also, such as Malareva and the great Naropa, also within the Lamdre schools, Lamdre teaching at Sakya school, it is said actually that, Rumche just mentioned a number of quotations, it's said actually right from the very beginning, ourselves and the Buddhas are no different, there's no difference between us, just that the Buddhas have understood their own nature, we have not understood our nature, that

[26:01]

If we understand our mind, if we understand the true nature of our own mind, if we uncover this Buddha nature, or in other words, we see this true primordial wisdom which has always been with us, then we become Buddha. So there has been many quotes that Rinpoche brought up from various teachers. And this idea actually was taught in India also by the great saints of what is called the mind-only school, such as the two brothers Asanga and Vasubandhu, and then also various of their disciples and later Indian teachers, described this idea of what is known then as emptying, emptying by another, or that this mind, the illusory aspect of mind, the untrue aspect of mind, is emptied by the ultimate truth. And in Tibet it was taught by many, many people, though many claimed in Tibet to be only of the Emptied-by-its-own-nature school, which means the Madhyamika school, still various teachers in Tibet within the Kargyuva school, such as some of the past Karmavas, as well as other teachers of the Kargyuva school.

[27:21]

Many Nyingapa teachers have held this view, which is called the Emptied-by-another philosophy. Some people even within the Lamdre school, Lamdre thought of Sakya school have also mentioned this. Even present-day teachers have taught this idea of emptied by another, such as some Nyingapa teachers, such as Lujum Rinpoche, Dingo Kenji Rinpoche, who are teaching these days, also have ascribed to this school of thought, where they believe they expound the idea that the mind, the ultimate nature of mind, this Tathagatagarbha, or true nature of mind, is something which is held to be true in its own nature, that we can hold it to be true, we can grasp it to be existent, ultimately, in its own self. And even among the Indian teachers, it was said that Nagarjuna was only a teacher of the Madhyamika school, but even some people claim that he also taught not only this idea of being empty, things are empty by their own nature, but also that they're empty by others.

[28:23]

and how they describe this is that they divide Nagarjuna's teachings into two parts. One is called actually the teachings on reasoning or the teachings on the Madhyamika. Actually there's six basic books on teachings on reasoning by Nagarjuna, such as the Madhyamika, Karakas, or the root verses of wisdom, where only this Madhyamika school or this idea of things are emptied by their own nature is taught. But then there's also another section of writings by Nagarjuna, which is called the writings on praise, where Nagarjuna can be found in the Tanjur or the collection of commentaries within the Tibetan canon, where Nagarjuna wrote praises to the Bodhisattva Muni, praises to the Dharmakaya, praises to the Dharmadhatu, praises to various other aspects. And there's a whole collection of these teachings which are called the collection of praises. And in there, many people quote those to show also that Nagarjuna held to the view also that things are emptied by another.

[29:26]

And this also when she was saying one of the past Karmapas also wrote a text on this and he said unfortunately he's not been able to see that text or read it but that he's sure there's very important teaching in there concerning showing the aspects of Nagarjuna also teaching this school or this idea of things are emptied by another. The distinction here, then, is that in this mind-only school, or this teaching of the third turning of the wheel of the Dharma, first we have this division of things into these three aspects of labeling things, giving names to things, which itself is an illusory aspect of the world. that within the relative truth is false by its own nature, then also within this relative world we have the creating mind, functioning mind with its various levels of consciousness, and that we can see these levels of consciousness first are creating this world and the way that we get over this creating mind with its various levels of consciousness and especially up to the eighth level of consciousness is that we empty it of its falsehood or we empty it of these various defilements or afflictions or ignorance and by emptying it

[30:44]

through the ultimate truth, then we come to the ultimate truth itself, and then we can hold on to the ultimate truth to be the truly existent Buddhahood, or the truly existent seed of enlightenment, or the nature of our own mind as it is in its ultimate sense. So these are the various steps that we go through in this third teaching. And this actually is what Rumiji has been going through. No, no. Shen Wang. Actually, this teaching is divided into three parts, or this analysis. But you're talking about Shen Tong. Yeah, Shen Tong actually means... Shen Tong means it's emptied by another. So the way that we... Shen Tong is... So Shen Wang and Shen Tong is the same? No, it's different. Shen Wang is the aspect of mind, which is actually the all-based mind, all-based consciousness. This is another name for that. Shen Wang is the all-based mind. with its various aspects. If it's deluded, it's samsara. And if it's cleansed of its delusion, then it's nirvana.

[31:50]

So that's the Zen Wang. Because our mind is under the power of another, whether it's deluded or undeluded. It's under the power of another, it's under the power of our afflictions that we see it as this world to be true. And then one can empty it by the ultimate truth, then also it's under the power of another, that it's emptied by the ultimate truth. And then we get to see the true nature of mind as it is in itself. So Gen 1 refers to this aspect of mind. And Gen 10 is the philosophical principle of how we get rid of that, to see the ultimate truth. What about young group? Young group's the ultimate truth itself. Young group is when you see the mind's true nature by itself, that's called young group. That is the ultimate truth of the mind, the mind in its own true nature. It's just a name for that, called the young group. That's right. Then what remains is the young group, is its own true nature, which here describes it to be something that we can hold to be true.

[32:56]

So, it has a different emphasis on it. But in the end, it has the answer by itself. I mean, if it's always emptied by another, you'll have to keep going on and on and on and on. Where does it stop being emptied by another? No, it's just that falsehood is emptied by truth, and then truth only remains by itself. But who is the other? Truth? Well, the alternate nature of mind. But there's no such thing. Well, here it describes it, actually. It doesn't mean the obscure nature of mind? No, it means the real nature of mind by its own self. the real nature of mind as it is in enlightened state. In other words, the enlightened mind of Buddhahood, that is the ultimate truth. Yeah, that's the ultimate truth. And when we realize that, that actually empties, it just throws out everything else. I mean, in other words, it's throwing out everything and what's left is just that. I just didn't understand that. I mean, it's a technical word, okay?

[33:58]

I mean, it says, I mean, Tibetan just says like that. It's emptied by something else. So the relative truth, when it's thrown out, in other words... Then you stop emptying altogether. Yeah, there's nothing to empty anymore. Yeah. But it's just the method or the title which is given to that. Then I told this. Then, then I know you're there. All right. This is nice. I'm done on this. Somebody. Somebody do this. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So in India actually there is one great Indian saint by the name of Asanga who through practice was able to

[35:32]

received teachings directly from the Bodhisattva Maitreya. And at the time of receiving teachings from Maitreya, Maitreya taught him five different teachings, which are known as the five teachings of Maitreya. And in that, actually, the first three of those, which is the first in Sanskrit, they're called actually the Maryanta Vibhanga, Dharmadhatu Vibhanga, and then also the Sutra Anamkara. These three dealt with the teachings of the mind, only school dealt with these various aspects, such as the labeling of all things, and then the mind being under the power of others, and then also of the ultimate truth, or the young group. And then the fourth book, which was called in Sanskrit names, the fourth one was called the Abhisamaya Lankara, which described the various aspects of Prajnaparamita teachings from the hidden aspect of, meaning that not only does it teach on emptiness, but also about the various levels of the path, at what stages of the Bodhisattva we have, what types of realization there are, what types of signs of realization there are, the various, like the five paths, the paths of accumulation, of accomplishment, of seeing, of

[36:42]

beyond teaching or learning. So these various aspects of the Marimika path, according to the Prajnaparamita Sutras, were taught in this Abhisamaya Lankara, this fourth book. And in the fifth book which he taught, which was called Tantra, or Gautama in Tibetan, deals specifically with this view of emptiness by another school, or this philosophy about how the relative is emptied by the ultimate nature of our own mind. So this was actually the basis for the teachings, especially this book of the Vaitama, this was explained and commented upon many times in Tibet and it was used by many great Tibetan masters in order to present the view of this empty by another school. And in Tibet itself, actually Rinpoche was just going through a whole list of various lamas from the different sects who had practiced or who had adhered to this school of emptiness by another school and who had gained great realization from it.

[37:52]

And then he mentioned various teachers within the Khargyu tradition, such as previous Karmapas, some of the previous Karmapas, and then also the first Kongchul Rinpoche and others who had gained great levels of realization, and at the same time dependent upon this school, which is called the Emptiness by Another School. Also he mentioned actually the first teacher of this Emptiness by Another School in Tibet, whose name was Shudder Gyaltsen, who wrote three volumes of teachings on this specific philosophical view, and who himself was a great master of the teachings and had great realization. And then also within Sakyapa, one of the greatest teachers of Sakyapa whose name was Shakya Choktan, who actually wrote, I think, about 32 volumes of books, most of which were based on this idea of emptiness by another school, and then also various other teachers in the Nirmapa tradition also. Many people relied upon this and were able to gain various realizations.

[38:57]

So Rinpoche was saying, actually, that this idea of emptiness by another school merits one's attention, it merits one to really study it, to try to understand it and also to employ it in one's practice because it will enable one also to gain the stages of the path and leading to liberation. So Rinpoche was saying actually that in this school actually the emphasis what happens is that It is said that the ultimate truth, or the dharmata, in other words the ultimate reality, is said to pervade all things of this world, which means it actually pervades our mind, pervades the levels of consciousness. And then since our mind is creating this world, the external phenomena of this world, then it pervades everything within this world. So this dharmatā, or ultimate reality, is an all-pervading principle which can be found within all. And this all-pervading principle, or in other words, this ultimate truth, is

[39:59]

something which is true by its own nature, which can be held to be true in its own nature and by its own nature. And this is what is called, according to this school, that which is gone beyond all the extremes of existence or nonexistence or both or neither. And this is the name which is also given to that which is gone beyond the extremes. Also here it's said to be that which can be held to be true. Whereas in the Madhyamika school we said actually that even that we cannot say, you cannot hold that even to be true, you cannot hold anything to be true, because that would be a creation of the mind, a functioning of the mind, and the ultimate truth goes beyond anything of the grasping mind. So, this principle that the underlying nature of all is something which can ultimately be held to be true, functions because of what is known as the Tathagatagarbha, or the seed of enlightenment, which is possessed by all of us. And if we did not possess this Tathagatagarbha, or the seed of enlightenment, then there's no way that we could gain liberation or enlightenment, because there would be no basis for liberation.

[41:10]

And if we actually enter into the path, if we create the thought of enlightenment, in other words, create the enlightenment thought, enter into the path working for the sake of sentient beings, if we enter into the path which performs or practices the six paramitas or six perfections, then we can gain, through realization, the true nature of the mind, or the ultimate truth. And this is only possible if there's a basis of having this Tathagatagarbha or seed of enlightenment within us to begin with. So, for that reason, it's very important that We see that, and it was taught in many, many scriptures, which I named a number of these, such as the Avatamsaka Sutras, which possess four different volumes, and the Konsekha Sutras, which possess six volumes, and one other collection of sutras, which contains 32 volumes. But all these mention there this idea of the Tathagata Garbha, or the Seat of Enlightenment, that we do possess.

[42:19]

Guruji said it's important that we understand that and with understanding that we have the potential or the possibility of gaining enlightenment because we do have that seed and we need to work for it. Rumi said actually there's a lot of confusion among many people, among many schools also, that some people say, okay, things are emptied by something else and there's an ultimate truth which we can hold on to, or there's something which we can ultimately say is true. And there's other schools and other people say, no, we cannot say like that at all, there's nothing which we can hold on to, there's nothing which is true by its own nature, such as the Marimika school. And Rumiji said it's better to, he said he cannot say which is a good school and which is a bad school. He said it's better that we don't hold on to that view, that we see them in equanimity, that both are good. And he said, in any case, what we should do as a basis is just maintain what is called pure vision, that we see things, the things that we see around us really are just like images which arise in a dream, or images, visions which appear in a magic creation, or like the water of a mirage,

[43:30]

But all these, though they're seen, they cannot be held to be true. And this is, you cannot grasp them, you cannot hold from the vision and emitter, the reflection and emitter, you cannot grab it. Though it's there, it's empty by its own nature. It's not something you can physically grab and hold it like that. So, what he said actually, this pure vision, we should just maintain in order to gain the various stages of enlightenment. This is important to do as a basis for one's practice. I don't know. I don't know. The Buddha himself said, in the sūtra he said, those who understand, who are very great scholars, very great practitioners, who understand what are the teachings, for example, of the direct path leading to enlightenment, what are the indirect teachings leading to enlightenment, what is the nature of things.

[45:05]

with that kind of understanding, with their great understanding of the teachings as they really are, those people, if they enter into the Vajrayana path, they will gain very quickly the state of realization of ultimate enlightenment. Or another person who does not have great wisdom, who's not a fool at the same time, but who doesn't understand the teachings as they are, who has very great faith in the teachings, believes in them with great faith, tries to practice according to his abilities, based on this pure faith, will also be able to gain a stage of enlightenment in a very short time, or in some time. I said, those people who have a lot of discrimination, who are always discriminating, have a discriminating mind, who are saying, oh, this is good, this is no good, I should do like this, you shouldn't do like that, or I should do like this, I shouldn't do like this, I should take this, I shouldn't take that. These type of people who are always discriminating, there's no hope to gain enlightenment. So, Rumiji just gave a story, actually, he said actually one time there was one

[46:13]

practitioner of the Dharma in China. He was noticed by some gods in the realm of form. Actually, you say there's the realm of desire. For the gods' realms, the realm of desire, the realm of form, the formless realm. So some gods from the realm of form, from the higher realm, came to him and said, ìOh, you're a very great practitioner of the Dharma, so please bestow And this monk then gave them the vows of refuge. And then he noticed that these people walked a bit differently, that they didn't act really like ordinary people act. He said, you're very strange people. You don't really act like people. You're not a man, are you? You're not real people. And they said, no, we're not people. We're actually from the realm of form, the heavenly realm of form. And having heard of your, or having noticed your great moral conduct, we decided to come here in order to receive the vows of refuge from you. And this monk thought, well, if these beings are from the realm of form, well, the heavenly realms, they have some supernatural perceptions or consciousness that they can see the future, they can see the past.

[47:29]

So he said to them, oh, he said, if you're from these realms, this realm of the gods, then you must be able to see the future, you must have some precognitions about the future and the past, like this. So he asked him, he said, what's going to happen to me in my next life? So they said, yeah, we have some ability to see the future. We can predict in this manner. And then they said, actually, you actually, after you pass away, you're going to be born in hell. So he got a little upset. He said, how is it that I'm going to be born in hell if I'm a good practitioner of the Buddhist teaching? I hold my moral conduct purely, as you have said. He said, actually, the reason is because though you act in a pure way, you're really a follower of the Hinayana path. And not only that, but also you're always telling other people that Hinayana is good and Mahayana is no good, and you should practice like this, and you ought to give up that kind of teaching and that kind of path. So he said, because of this, you're discriminating mine in this manner. You're going to be born in hell after this life. So he became very upset, agitated.

[48:34]

So he asked, what should I do in order to overcome this? So they said, actually, there's many Mahayana scriptures, such as the Samadhi-rajasutra, the Avatamsaka-sutra, and other Mahayana texts. They said, you should study those, understand them, create, produce faith in the Mahayana, and then expound those teachings to others. So being very afraid of being born in hell, he took their advice, he read the sutras, received teachings on them, understood them to a very good degree, and then expounded them to many others. And then after that time, these gods once again came to him, after he had started expounding and created faith in the Mahayana, and they said, oh, now this is very good. You have really entered into the path, and now you've understood the Mahayana teachings and you're gain very good rebirth and you will have a good path leading to enlightenment. So they said this is very good. So Guruji said, for this reason, that those people who discriminate about the different teachings, like emptiness by itself or emptiness by another, or those who say, oh, Hargiva's good and Sakya's no good, or Sakya's good and Hargiva's no good, or Nyingma's good, or Gnilupa's good, or whatever kind of discrimination, he said, this is very poor thoughts, because it's only going to lead to trouble for oneself.

[49:57]

As the Rogache referred to that quote again, saying that anyone who discriminates in this choosing things in this manner is only leading oneself to trouble, so that one should see all things, all the teachings in equidimity as being equal, that they are all equal paths leading to enlightenment, and practice from this point of view. He said this is very necessary and very important. I don't know same in that manner.

[51:25]

There is no distinction between the two. There is no distinction between the two words. And also Subhata Garbha, there is also Subhata Garbha. Subhata Garbha. I don't know. [...] Then the sun something good. No, he said, no, he did something good. Yeah. [...] Mitoku no no don't sit down.

[52:45]

Tom get a chair for you. Sawu go sit down. When I sawu go sit down, I said, sit down, [...] He said, I don't know. [...] So you can't talk about them. But I did. I'm not telling you.

[53:45]

I don't want to. [...] I don He said actually they're absolutely the same. He said it's like if you have milk and then you work with the milk, you do something to it and you can extract butter from it. Or if you have a flower with honey in it, then the bee comes and extracts the honey from the flower. Or if you have stone, which within it has are. So also, all sentient beings are pervaded by the dharmata, or the ultimate truth.

[54:49]

And this ultimate truth is just what is called the dekha-sevanimu, or the tathagata-dharma. So it's no difference. It's just what some people call, in an impure form, we call it something else like the mind, or we call it milk. And then when you purify it, when you work with it, when you enter into the path, when perform the practices, when you do enter into the samadhis, understand the wisdom, then you'll extract it and you'll see the nature of mind is its own nature, the true nature of mind. And that true nature of mind is what's been pervaded by from the very beginning, which is called the dharmata, the ultimate truth, or its own true nature, or the tathagata-garbha, or su-gata-garbha, or whatever you want to call it. So this here, according to this mind-only school, is held to be the ultimate truth. It's also the young truth. It's the young truth. I have one other question. I think that means the outer things are only created by subject and object, so we have to bring it to the mind that creates it.

[56:46]

And then, that mind which creates it, then has to be examined to see if the mind is, the mind is the creating function, or has the creating function of creating this world, or it has the function of creating enlightenment. So first of all, the outer things that we perceive to be true, as outside things are not true, because they're only created by the duality of subject and object. of the nature of mind to see how it is actually either a creator of the world from its own inner aspect or it's the ultimate truth. So the outside thing of this kunta right from the very beginning is false. It's an illusory appearance. The laboring process. Yeah. It's different from saying that duality What I understood he was saying was that from the standpoint of relatives, they couldn't

[58:10]

outer creations of the world, such as like this thing, the table, something like that. These are created by subject-object duality. And those by themselves are just illusory. They're not real. They're just labeled to be so. We give it the name table when really there's no table to be there. So you're talking about the labeling process as opposed to the thinking of the self or its conditional reality. Well, even the thing in its own conditional reality is only created by our label. If there's no label, there's no thing out there. You can have a perception of something without labeling it, though. We don't. We don't. But, I mean, it's possible. Well, then that's when, I'm assuming that's when you take into the next step of this, what is called the power by another, or searching the mind. You can make some clear words, I'll answer them with you. Maybe I misunderstood you. You're saying that the labeling causes it.

[59:30]

Labeling gives the truth to this thing, when actually that thing doesn't have any truth except by the label we give it. So you're saying that by more or less by the logic of relative truth you can destroy the notion of duality. It doesn't mean that from the standpoint of relative truth there is no duality. It seems once you cause a duality of truth, there has to be duality, otherwise there will be no duality. or is that what it is? Well, what I also think, this is going to be difficult to answer, that's why I'm saying it myself. is that actually maybe we can say there's two levels of relative truth also. One which is created by the mind, and one which creates the mind. The mind creates and makes these outside things also. And we give those outside things truth, when actually that's just a labeling process. So that's a false notion of the mind's creation. Whereas here we want to see what, like he's saying, is the mind which is functioning without the labeling process first.

[60:34]

We're coming back a step to get to that. That is the creation of the relative truth, OK, without going a step further and saying, OK, this is table, this is this, this is that, which is a further breaking down of the subject matter dichotomy. Make sense? Peace. Well, for example, if you see a snake where there's a rope, I mean, within the relative truth, that snake was never there to start with, even inside relative truth.

[61:52]

So that's a false creation of relative truth. The rope is there, that's relative. Yeah, but once the rope disappears... No, the rope is still there even when you're talking about a snake anymore. Yeah, but then there's no relative truth. I mean, then you have open truth. In Relative Truth, there are two types of Relative Truth. One is what we see as, what we call, I mean, we see these things, you see. We call it correct, or what we call, true Relative Truth. And then there is another thing that you see, you see something false. That is false within Relative Truth. There are two types of Relative Truth. So that means, you see, non-duality or duality can have, I mean, duality can be incorrect even in the duality totem.

[63:04]

But isn't the seed neither one of them? But our problem here is saying that even these outer things we hold to be true. So we're so far out, our mind is functioning in such an out far, you know, far flung out way that even things that are absolutely not true, we even hold them to be true. So we're that far away. What we want to do is bring our mind back into itself and then, you know, cut off one level of truth or one level of falsehood to get to one level of truth. Cut off that truth to find that that's a falsehood to get to the next level of truth. I never asked. We'll try later. You can't ask me to shave. All right. What words do you want to use? I'm not going to get through.

[64:06]

I'm not sure what you're asking. It's difficult because maybe the problem is the omniscience. All right. But you were saying that in the relative truth, what? I think it would simplify things to make sure that Lama Tashi has the right idea. If you ask Rinpoche to repeat what he said about the labelling process being invalid... It wasn't the labelling process being invalid. That's easy to understand. The labelling process being invalid is easy to understand. What is not easy to understand? It's easier to try anyway. He said it's a false condition of mind that there is this dichotomy of subject and object within the route of truth is false.

[65:12]

I don't know. [...] I don't know Is that right? Why don't you just ask me for the name of Kundalini? Yeah, that's what it does. If there's no duality, is there real or is there true? Kundalini is in the name of Kundalini. Kundalini is in the name of Kundalini.

[66:42]

He said it's Shenlong, which means actually the all-based consciousness. Which is still relative truth. Shenlong, what you said is what? It's still relative truth. Shenlong... Until you... Until you... So, I'm going to read it to you. I'm going to read it to you. He said, I don't know.

[68:18]

He said, I don't know. He said, I don't know. [...] He said, I don't know. As long as you don't realize the Ultimate Truth, or as long as you don't, until you realize

[69:24]

the nature of mind, then you have the relative truth. And when you realize the ultimate nature of mind, then you don't have the relative truth. Okay? I mean, like that. So he says, just like when you look at milk, though there's butter there, you always see milk. You don't see the butter. And then when you work at it, When you accomplish it, or what do you say, work at it, turn the milk, do something with the milk, you get the butter out of it. So it's always there. So also this mind is always there. And when we don't accomplish it, when we don't work with it, we don't practice, we don't enter into the path, we don't turn the mind, then we have this world. And then when we turn the mind, we take the extract out of it, we get the real nature of the mind, the mind itself, then we have the ultimate truth. So then without this, so what Rumi says is, then there is the false aspect of the relative truth. Then what we have then within this relative truth is this mind that's the creator of the relative truth. Then when we enter into the path, work to enter into the stages of enlightenment, go from the first stage up through the five levels or paths of enlightenment, such as the path of entering, the path of accumulating, the path of seeing, like this, then this mind, which we always thought were hell to be,

[71:01]

true as being the relative truth then disappears and we see its own true nature, its own transcendental wisdom, its own primordial awareness and this is the ultimate truth. So Rinpoche is saying at the time of meditating When we try to look at the nature of mind, we don't hold on to thoughts, past thoughts, we don't hold on to future thoughts, but we look at the mind just as it is in this very moment. And then at that time we say, oh, we see the mind, this is the mind itself. He said, that's the relative truth still. We haven't even realized the ultimate truth yet. And when you don't grasp at that and the mind just rests in its own nature without saying anything, you can go out and say, oh, this is this, this is that, then we have the ultimate truth. And this is the path that Guru Rinpoche was explaining from the Lamrim teachings of the Sakhihela, which explains like this, that when we enter into that, though we're caught, this is mind itself, this is the ultimate truth. When we're using terms like that, we're conceptualizing like that, that we don't see, and that's still the ultimate truth.

[72:08]

Because it's the mind functioning by itself. But then we create that, we hold on to that. So until that rests in its own nature, until that just subsides, until we take the butter out of the milk, until we see the true nature of mind in its own resting state, which is not contrived, which is not made, which is not created, then this is the ultimate. This is what Lenny uses. nature, period.

[73:38]

And the last part, do you recognize this story? I've seen some pictures on it. I've seen some pictures. Yeah, no bull. It's where a bull and a guy are fighting. And the ninth picture is the There's one teaching that says, you know, when you realize the nature of mind, then it's as if there never was any bewilderment. And that, you know, it's like waking up from a dream and everything's completely gone. And so, would that be shen tong process, or is that wrong tong? You see what I mean? Yeah, I'm just trying to think of the words. Yeah.

[74:39]

Yeah, from the beginning. Yeah. So, you know, the top of the cup is the Jagadshemukhi. The top of the top there. The top of the right hand is the long tongue. The right hand is the long tongue. That is how it is. I mean, the ultimate truth goes beyond all extremes, so you can't say it's this or it's that.

[75:55]

He said, actually, like, when the Buddha, when Pada Matisha went to Tibet, and when he Tibetanized him, the Buddha had the mind of transcendental knowledge, wisdom. He said, I'm not a Buddha, so I don't know what he's got. You know, I can't say. But in any case, he said, actually, this transcendental knowledge, which is attained through self-realizations, it goes beyond extremes, you know, conceptualizing. Transcendental Wisdom, is that the ultimate? Is that what the nature of it is? Does it have any intention at all? Is the nature of it Transcendental Wisdom? Or is it beyond it? Does it have a name? Besides being empty, does it have that quality of Transcendental Wisdom? You mentioned Transcendental Wisdom. Could you say that was in a way synonymous with the ultimate? Yes, just another name for that. Sometimes it's called the ultimate truth. Sometimes it's called the ultimate truth. These are different names. Sometimes it's called... In Tibetan or Sanskrit, there's many words which point to the same thing.

[76:57]

I don't want to break any... answer to this question. I'm just curious. You mentioned that there is a direct path to enlightenment. An indirect path. I've never heard of an indirect path to enlightenment. What's... You just haven't sort of explained what that is? Or are there certain key things? Yeah. Well, like, yeah. Like, tonight I don't have to explain. When the Buddha taught about the law of karma, you know, that you should do good deeds, will lead to a result of suffering. That's a teaching that if you follow that by itself, you cannot get enlightenment. But it helps you take the next step on your way to enlightenment. So those kind of teachings which don't go direct, they get you there, but like this, they're called indirect teachings. And the one that's direct, say, the nature of mind is this, that's called a direct teaching. So that's the distinction. And all the scriptures of the Buddha are divided into those two ideas. Does emptiness of mind mean The same as receptiveness. How do you say receptive?

[78:02]

To be receptive rather than empty. Is that what is meant? I don't know. I'm trying to think of the word into that. She said receptive. Now, open, perceptive, ready to receive the teachings. I don't know if that answers your question.

[79:14]

What Rumiji is saying is that the nature of mind has actually two aspects which are merged together. One is the knowledge of mind, one is the empty aspect of mind. And these two are non-dually merged together. So the nature of mind is actually empty. And that emptiness we must understand. We must search the mind to understand that emptiness of mind. And when we understand the nature of mind to be empty, then that knowledge, that awareness of mind and the emptiness of mind are completely merged together. In its perfect form it's empty. Are you saying in its perfect form it's empty but it can be quite a cluttered mind? and therefore not receptive to the teachings. This is what I mean by receptive. It's not full of other things. I mean, what Rinpoche is referring to is the true nature of mind from the ultimate point of view. So you don't have to be receptive to teaching, right? You've already realized the teaching at that point. I mean, this is from the ultimate point of view.

[80:17]

What you're asking, I think, is from a relative point of view. I mean, emptiness also, Guru Rinpoche was saying the other day, all the appearances of this world, okay, by their nature they're empty. But emptiness is not separate from those appearances. So all things in this world appear like a dream, like the vision in a dream, or like a creation in a magical illusion. Though we see it, it's not true in its own nature. It's empty of any truth in itself. So the mind is receptive. There's a functioning of mind. But that mind which functions, which has awareness, is empty by its own nature. That's the nature of mind. But that emptiness of mind and its functioning cannot be separated from each other. You can't find one without the other, or separate from the other. They're completely non-dually merged together. I guess I'm envisioning the mind as a thing that you put things into. Ideas, concepts, whatever.

[81:17]

I was saying the other day, When you're saying I see the If you look at the mind, it has no color, it has no shape, it has no form. But the one who's looking at the mind is the awareness of mind. And that looker, the one who's looking for the mind to find out what color, what shape, is empty by its own nature. So we cannot separate the one who looks for the mind and that looker also to be empty of anything. Or in other words, it is ultimately empty by itself, empty of its own true nature.

[82:18]

So these two we cannot separate. Just like you cannot take fire and put it one place and put the heat of the fire another place and say these are two different things. You'll never find heat separate from fire or fire separate from heat. It's like a perception, isn't it? Well, here it's called the true awareness of mind. And the true awareness of mind is not separate from being empty, of having a shape, a color, something that you can use perception on, or conceptualizations. You can't conceive it. Because once you conceive, then you don't see its own true nature. And by the end of summer, they are too cold already.

[83:20]

That I think I was a kind of kid. Even somebody knows me. So today, you don't want to be sorry. You can then learn that. That's it. [...] That In order to understand that, he says, first you have to accumulate much merit and wisdom, and you must have great faith in Guru. And then that shouldn't just happen for one day or two days, but along with great faith, along with accumulations of merit and wisdom, looking at the nature of mind for many, many, many days, many years even, and eventually this awareness or this realization will arise within yourself. It's not something given from outside. And the Guruji is saying, oh, this is it now, I've got it.

[84:23]

But it comes after a lot of accumulations of matter and a lot of accumulations of faith in the Guru and a lot of practice. Chagay-Koadyo? [...] And so, on the tenth day of the war, when the enemy was defeated, and [...] the enemy was defeated,

[85:34]

Svātidurga-nirvāṇḍa-bhaktivad-gītā-jītā-śakti-vāntaya-jītā-sanādhi-śrī-sūtasī-sanādhi-śrīla-kriyā-dharmakārya-nirvāṇḍa-jītā Sangho semasi padam kye chögyi kyi wangyam wangyam padam wangyam wangyam wangyam lai shung gyi ko sung gyi kye shing wangyam kye chögyi kyi wangyam padam kye chögyi kyi wangyam lai shung Chanting. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

[86:40]

Amen. foreign [...] GURU SWAMI [...]

[87:45]

Chanting in Tibetan. PAN YANG CHE CHEN GYI KUN LAM YIN SHEN NEN PA TZAM TZAM WANG CHEN TZAM NU PAD WANG CHUG CHUG LE GANG CHUNG NEN MA WEN NYIN PA CHAP TEN SO NAM RAK KWAM PA SUM GYI CHUG CHUG CHEN NAM MA NGOS WANG KWAM PEY PA THAG SO I'm going to tell you a story. I'm going to tell you a story. I'm going to tell you a story. I love you. I love you. I love you. One who made among us, O Master of Dawkins, vast, an illuminer of teachings that reveal the joy of transcendent wisdom, the second Maitreya, a loving son among teachers, you are for all beings a protector endowed with wisdom, compassion, and power.

[89:21]

Ever may your mind be adorned by the three codes of purest vows, coursing to the end of all study, reflection, and meditation, May you increase in every way your holy works, explaining, discussing, and showing to us the way. May your body of illusion remain for hundreds of years, and all your wishes spontaneously become fulfilled. That the sun of the teachings of holy Sakya, and of its masters of wisdom, may shine throughout the worlds, sun among speakers, compassion and purvey to the ends of every direction your realizations, your knowledge, and your holy deeds.

[90:03]

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