I often tell the story of an ancient Chinese teacher named Yun Mun, which could be translated as Cloud Gate. He had a way of teaching his community. He would ask him a question and then answer it himself. One day he said, maybe he didn't say it this time, maybe somebody asked him, what was the Buddha's whole lifetime? And he said, an appropriate response. Literally it's, I think, three characters which are meeting, first character is to meet, second character is a character which means one or each, third character means teach.

[01:23]

Meeting each. The Buddha's whole life is meeting each thing and teaching. Which, since the Buddha is the teacher, that's the Buddha's appropriate response. I aspire to that life of meeting each thing and teaching. Now I assert that all the Buddhas are practicing in the same place as us.

[02:30]

All the Buddhas are practicing together with each one of us. Right now, all the Buddhas are practicing with us and meeting us and teaching us. I said a minute ago, all the Buddhas are practicing in the same place as each of us.

[03:37]

Each of us is at the center of the universe. That's where each of us is. Each of us is at the place where we are including the entire universe. That's where each of us is. And each of us is in a place where we are included in the entire universe. That's where we are. That's where Buddhas are. We are in the same place as Buddhas. Buddhas, of course, include the whole universe, and, of course, Buddhas are included in the whole universe. We're in the same place as that Buddhahood. We are pivoting with the whole universe, and the whole universe is pivoting with each one of us.

[04:43]

This teaching, however, is very difficult to accept for most of us and very difficult to understand. Before Buddhas were Buddhas, they were just like us. They had a hard time accepting this teaching, too, before they were Buddhas. Before they got to the place where they are, Before we get to the place where we are, we have a hard time accepting the place we are and understanding the place we are. Fortunately, those who have arrived at the place where we are, the Buddhas, have given us a training by which we can realize where we are. we can realize where we are together with the whole universe.

[06:01]

And now I will give you the training method, which is maybe not so difficult to understand, but seems to be difficult to practice. So the training method is, given by the Buddhas who are with us right here, the training method is train yourself like this. In the scene, there will be just the scene. In the herd, there will be just the herd. In the smell, there will be just a smelled. In the tasted, there will be just a tasted. In the touched, there will be just a touched. In the mental cognition, there will be just a mental cognition. That's the training.

[07:14]

Now, I would expand it a little bit, or not expand it, but elaborate by saying, in the fear, there will be just a fear. In the pain, there will be just a pain. In the pleasure, there will be just a pleasure. In the hatred, there will be just a hatred. In the confusion, there will be just a confusion. In the greed, there will be just a greed. That's the training, to train yourself In the fear, there will be just the fear. In the evil, there will be just the evil. In the good, there will be just the good. Train yourself thus, the Buddha, the Buddhas teach.

[08:20]

And then they again amplify how to let things be. How to let things be. Well, you practice generosity with them. You be very careful and gentle and tender and vigilant and mindful. and patient and enthusiastic and relaxed and open and undistracted and then you'll be able to let things be themselves. Now when I give this teaching people say, but what if What about ... really? You're talking about letting evil be evil? You're talking about letting liars be liars and liars be liars?

[09:23]

What about this letting things be? What if they're terrible things? understand. But what I'm saying to you and to me is that if you can let terrible things be terrible things, if you can actually train to that place, you will enter the place you are now, you will enter the place the Buddhas are, and you will be the place, and you will be in the place where the appropriate response to all the terrible things, all the horrible things in the world, the appropriate response will come out if you can be in that place where you are. So, again, just the other night somebody says, after I gave this teaching, well, what about some terrible, like, whatever, injustice, cruelty?

[10:32]

Shouldn't you intervene? I'm not saying you should intervene or shouldn't intervene. I'm talking about how you can make the appropriate response. Intervening is sometimes the appropriate response. Intervening is sometimes not the appropriate response. The appropriate response comes from Buddha being where you are right now. Buddha is you being where you are right now and letting things be. From that place, the appropriate response spontaneously arises. You don't have to do something else in addition to being totally there, letting things be. The appropriate response comes, [...] comes. But still it's hard to believe that letting things be will be the path to the appropriate response to all the horrors of the world.

[11:48]

All the horrors of the world are calling for compassion. All the monsters are calling for compassion. And if we can do this practice with the monsters and the angels, the appropriate compassionate response spontaneously arises. our life is fragile. And it's possible to be tender with our fragile life.

[12:59]

Being tender with our fragile life is in accord with letting our fragile life be our fragile life. Being tender with our fragile life does not make our life not fragile. It lets it be fragile. But letting our fragile life be fragile opens the door to the appropriate response to our fragile life. Now I didn't tell the whole story, now I'll tell the rest. The Buddha gives this training which is hard to do. But if you actually do this training and you train yourself so that things are the way they are because you allow them to be the way they are.

[14:06]

And of course they always are the way they are whether you allow them or not. But if you can really allow them to be the way they are then you will not be with them. You will not be with the monsters. You will be not with the liars. You will be not with the evil. You won't be with it. And also you will not be not with it. And you won't be in it. And you also won't be outside of it. If you're tender, And let everything be. You won't identify or disidentify. You won't be in or out. And this is actually the end of suffering. And this is actually reality. We're not with things. Things are us. We're not in things. We include them. They include us.

[15:08]

There's no here or there or in between, and this is the end of suffering. But our deluded, egocentric consciousness thinks it's with things, thinks we're with things, we're in things, we're out of things. So that consciousness has a hard time allowing this training. But when this training is complete, in a moment, then there's no identification or disidentification. There's no being in or outside. And this is the freedom from suffering, which spontaneously is an appropriate response. It's freedom to respond appropriately, to transmit this teaching. this life of this temple is fragile.

[16:13]

So we have these wonderful people who help people park their cars on the street. And sometimes when they're parking, people who live on the street come and attack them. They attack the parkers. Maybe they also attack the parkers But people are helping Park, maybe they also attack the other people. But anyway, they come up to us and they say, we don't want you here. You people do not belong here. We want you to go away. They come up and they say that to the people who are coming here to sit. And sometimes the people who are being talked to that way listen to these calls for compassion.

[17:18]

And then they listen again to the call for compassion, which is in the form of, you know, we don't want you here, we want you to go away, you shouldn't be here, you're causing trouble in this neighborhood, We wish you weren't here. Go away. We hate you." And the people listen. And they let the people hate them. They thought they were just helping to park the cars, but they're actually coming here to save the people in the neighborhood from their hatred of the other. So maybe it's great to be here, right?

[18:28]

But maybe the most important thing is to help the people in the neighborhood who hate us for parking on their street. for them to come to us and say, go away. And then after they say that, and we listen, and they say it again, and we listen, and we say it again, and we listen, they say, I'm not usually like this, I'm not always like this, I'm sorry. Can they be themselves, you know, can they be themselves who are afraid of us and afraid that their driveway might be blocked by our cars and their mailboxes might be blocked by our cars and that we might be monsters?

[19:30]

Can we listen to their fear and their hatred and let them be? Yes, we can. And we do. And sometimes we don't. And we're sorry when we don't. I have to let things be themselves in order to realize the practice of the Buddhas, in order to be in the place where I am.

[21:02]

Where Buddhas are just like me, and I'm just like Buddhas. Where Buddhas are just like you, the way you are right now. And the way you are right now is just like Buddhas would be you. Buddhas are with us right now helping us be ourself and helping us be others. But if I can't let others be others, and I can't let myself be myself, then I'm hindering me being myself and me being others. me pivoting from self to others, to self to others, always, my whole life.

[22:15]

Zen stories are popping up in my consciousness about this. One of them is that when Master Ma, the great Master Ma, was about to die, one of the monks came and said, how is your health? And Master Ma said, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha.

[24:18]

my health, my condition is sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. Sun-faced Buddha lives a really long time, 18,000 years or 18,000 eons. Moon-faced Buddha lives one day and one night. My condition is pivoting between infinite life Buddha and finite life Buddha. That's my situation. Could the Buddha situation be different from ours? Could our life just be Moon-face Buddha? Could our life just be finite life? Or is our life also infinite life? Or is our life neither finite nor infinite, but rather the two pivoting on each other?

[25:32]

I think our life is infinite life pivoting with finite life. I think our life is just like the Zen master's life. And then there's a training by which you can realize that. When the monster is attacking you, in the attacking monster that would just be the attacking monster. It's hard to learn to let the attacking monster just be the attacking monster, but it's possible to learn it by these practices of generosity, ethical tenderness.

[26:36]

patience, heroic diligence, concentration, and then we can let things be and wisdom door opens. It's possible, but it's difficult because of our past of not letting things be. It makes it hard to let them be. But again, if we can't let them be, we have a practice of compassion for not being able to let things be, which is that we confess, I didn't really let things be, and I'm sorry. And I make that confession in the presence of the ones who do let things be. the sun-faced Buddhas and moon-faced Buddhas. So one Zen poet made a poem about

[27:59]

this Sun-Face Buddha, Moon-Face Buddha pivot. Is Sun-Face Buddha, Moon-Face Buddha Zazen? Zazen is Sun-Face Buddha pivoting on Moon-Face Buddha. So one Zen poet says, Sun-Face Buddha, Moon-Face Buddha, stars fall. Thunder rolls. The pearl in the bowl rolls on itself. And now I'm going to change the next line of the poem. The mirror faces objects without being with them, without being in them.

[29:01]

Then another poet wrote a poem, Sun-Face Buddha, Moon-Face Buddha. For 20 years I have bitterly struggled, I have bitterly trained. How many times have I gone down into the cave of the green dragon for you? clear-eyed Zen students should not take this lightly. Sun-faced Buddha, Moon-faced Buddha, it takes a lot of training. You have to go down into that cave for those Buddhas to be realized. and we have to go into the cave very carefully, very generously, very patiently.

[30:22]

For you, for you Buddhas, for you Buddhas who are practicing with everybody, for everybody who's practicing with Buddha, that's who I'm going down in this cave for. and it may take 20 years of training before we can really let things be. For more than 20 years I've heard what a great story this is about Sun-Face Buddha, Moon-Face Buddha, I'm happy that the door of how wonderful this story is, is opening a little for me. I'm starting to see now how great Sun-Face Buddha, Moon-Face Buddha is.

[31:32]

So maybe the neighbors will continue to be unhappy with us and yell at us and revile us. And maybe we will be able to continue to kindly listen. Thank you for taking care of the neighbors. Yes, neighbor? the neighbors are actually Buddhists, kind of testing my generosity and my practice that I've heard about.

[33:16]

So, you know, it's about these Buddhists being around me, but am I actually reachable? Yeah, they make each other, and there's no Buddha without delusion. So, if we get rid of delusion, we're also going to get rid of Buddha. But anyway, it doesn't seem like we're in danger of getting rid of delusion. One of the delusions is to get rid of delusion. That's a major delusion. Let's annihilate delusion. And that wanting to get rid of delusion, there's a Buddha right there.

[34:26]

Letting that wish to get rid of delusion be that wish. Yes? A form of delusion would be to see your neighbors as acting hatefully, but to not also recognize that in one form or another that hatred is also infested in us. And so by not acting compassionately with them, it would almost be like an act of Right, because we include the neighbor. I include the neighbor. I am the neighbor who hates me. And I am included in the neighbor. The neighbor is included in me, and I'm included in the neighbor. And if I don't let the neighbor be included in me, then I will have aversion to the neighbor.

[35:31]

If I don't let myself be included in the neighbor, I will have desire for the neighbor. But if I accept inclusion and being included, now I am where I am. That's where I really am. That's what I really am. And if I either direction don't accept, I violate what I really am. I do violence to what I really am. Are impertinent questions welcome? You mean, are they welcomed by the Buddhas? By the person who's wrapped in Buddhas right now.

[36:33]

They are definitely welcomed by somebody who's wrapped in Buddhas. Okay. Well, I've heard you say once that when you And here you are today, kind of just remembering stories and Chinese names and, you know, maybe not a popular name, but a good place to start your day. And I'm just, I'm curious today about the time in between. And, you know, it's kind of a silly question to ask you how you're going to be, but that's what I'm curious. Like, are you, when you think about the period in between now, when we've already hit a roll, When you can't remember the stories, or you get them wrong, are you able to be with that?

[37:41]

Is that in your theory? It's not really a question I have. I just wanted to talk about that a little bit. About how you relate to what might be. Or not. By the way, this thing about throwing me to the wolves. That's fine with me, but actually what I request is that you throw me to an elaborate process of traditional ceremonies, which is kind of like Zen wolves. But if it weren't for the public service of having these ceremonies done, which people haven't seen done before, I would be happy just to be thrown to the wolves. However, I do hope that if people ask me how I am between now and then, I hope that I remember sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha.

[38:43]

That's what I want to remember. I want to remember that teaching and I want to realize it between now and the future. I want to realize sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha, which means I want to train to really be moon-faced Buddha. I want to train at being this finite life today, which includes, I think you're asking, is there any thoughts of Is there any finite thoughts in my finite life today? So in my finite life today, somebody's asking me about some finite thoughts, like the finite thought of not being able to remember the teachings.

[39:49]

It could be the case that somebody would not be able to remember what Master Ma said when they asked him how he was feeling. Hey, Reb, what did Master Ma say again when he was about to die, when they asked him how he was? What did he say? That's a finite situation I might be privy to. And how do you now feel about the possibility of that finite situation? So today, if I can't remember what the Zen master said when he was asked how he was feeling, if today I can't remember, I'm a little embarrassed.

[41:25]

Today I could remember what he said, actually. and I could even remember two poems. But, now, if today I can't remember the stories, I'm a little embarrassed. Now, I could also be not embarrassed, but let's just say, what if I am embarrassed? So, can I train myself so that if the time comes that I can't remember the story, that my training will still function, even though I can't remember what school I'm in, or who the ancestors of this school are.

[42:37]

even if I can't remember, there's a training for that situation, which is, let the forgetfulness be just forgetfulness, and let the embarrassment just be embarrassment. That's why I have to train, so that whatever change, whatever finite situation I have, the training will let it be. One time I kind of didn't know anything. I didn't know how to talk, I didn't know how to move. And I noticed that my hands were putting on this robe and that they knew how to tie the knot and adjust the robe on the body, which most of you don't know how to do.

[43:40]

but my hands had been trained, so it was in my body. So, I wish to train so that my body, as long as there's a body, will continue to respond with the training response, even no matter how much you change the body and the mind. That's what I'm training for. But of course now, without training, we will not respond appropriately, probably. Even though we're not really, really old, we're not going to respond properly unless we've trained enough, but if we train enough, then you can change us any old way you want to and the practice goes on because the training realizes that you include everybody and you're included in everybody.

[44:42]

So you can take away my body and the way I include everybody and include in everybody is basically the same situation that it's always been. So really what I am is something that will always be the case. I'm always a finite thing and an infinite thing pivoting on each other. That is always the way it will be, no matter what my so-called condition is. And if I realize that, that realization may have offspring. that realization is finite and infinite, and if it can have offspring, which could be more me's and more you's, and is more me's and more you's. Yes?

[45:46]

Once again? If you let the seriousness just be the seriousness, if there's some seriousness, if you let the seriousness be seriousness, then when you get to be that way, that you're really letting the seriousness be seriousness, then you will not be with the seriousness, and you will not be separate from the seriousness, and you will not be in the seriousness. So, seriousness, if you're with it, it's not the seriousness that's the problem, it's the being with the seriousness.

[46:48]

If seriousness, you're in it, it's not the seriousness that's the problem, it's being in it. If you're not serious, and you're not with it, then not being serious is not a problem. So whether you're serious or not, the Buddhas are pivoting between serious and not serious. It's a trust that the forms are pivoting with beyond the forms. It's a trust that ... the name of this place is No Abode. It's a trust in the mind of No Abode. But in order to trust the mind of No Abode, I have to let the mind of seriousness be the mind of seriousness. I let the mind of not serious be the mind of not serious. So the neighbors are serious about us being a problem.

[47:51]

And maybe some of us are not serious about their problem. Those are two different views of the situation. We're not hurting the neighborhood. But to abide in either position, that's what I think is suffering. So in order to not abide in either position, in my position or your position, I have to really let my position be my position and your position and your position, and I have to train at that because I don't... I don't naturally let things be from my normal egoistic consciousness. I don't let things be. I try to manipulate them or I push things away or pull things on. We're not trying to get rid of any of that. We're trying to train to let each thing be itself and not abide even in letting each thing be itself.

[48:57]

Yes. Recently something came up and I noticed it was causing sadness or anxiety or I don't remember exactly at the time, but I was acute and I let it be. And I was accused of that being a spiritual bypass. How do I know if I'm letting something be, or if, yeah, it's a spiritual bypass? Part of letting things be is to wonder if you're letting things be. part of being careful is to wonder if you're being careful.

[50:07]

If we're being careful with whatever, for example, with other human beings, if we're being careful with them, as we meet with them, they will call us into question. They will look at us like, What are you doing? Do you really believe that?" And so on. And when we see that face, we will feel called into question. And now I'm saying, when I'm called into question, I can remember, this is part of letting things be, is that I wonder if I'm letting things be. Now, what if I don't wonder if I'm letting things be, and I'm absolutely sure that I'm letting things be. Well, if I saw that, I would quite naturally be called into question. But people often want to know, how do I know that I'm letting things be?

[51:14]

Or how do I know that I'm being wholehearted? When you're endeavoring to be wholehearted, it's quite natural to want to know that you're being wholehearted. If you're trying to be tender, it's kind of nice to know if you're being tender. Like, was I just tender with you just now, I might ask you. And you might say, sort of. Or, you know, you could be more tender. You might say, you were so tender. But if you say that I was so tender, if our relationship is really tender, I still wonder. if maybe I really am, or you're just so afraid of me, because I'm so cruel, that you just say, yes, you're really tender. So, being called into question in our relationship to others is part of actually letting things be. And also, don't push away the wish to know that, yes, in fact, I am letting them be.

[52:15]

Yes, I am really. I know now I'm wholehearted. I believe in the teaching of wholeheartedness, but I don't hear the teaching of knowing that you're wholehearted. Want some feedback? I think you're ironing your araksu in the opposite direction. Which way do you fold it? We usually fold it in the other direction, which has major problems, because if you fold it the other direction, it's harder to keep it clean. It's the other way. It's the other way. When we fold our robes, when they're folded, they're inside out. The inside's out when they're folded.

[53:16]

And then we put them on, the outside's out, the inside's out. No, the outside's out. When you wear them, the outside's out. When you fold them, the inside's out. You have something to look forward to. So, now sometimes when I talk to people like that, people say, I hope he never does that to me. But Angela, I think, can handle that. Do you think she can? Yeah. And I wanted to show people that people can be publicly instructed without being publicly humiliated. Were you humiliated? I didn't mean to. If you were, I'm sorry. the Raksu folds really nicely when you do it the other way.

[54:17]

Let me show you. Ten people at Green Gulch received the Bodhisattva Precepts last weekend, and I taught them how you fold the Raksu. So you put these two squares together, like this. Take the thumb, go like this, Isn't that nice? It just flips right on there, and then you go like this. Ah, yeah, it's a right-handed thing, sorry. No, no, no, no, you didn't do it. Take your thumb. I'll show you again. So you go like this, go like this, run her along the inside, and then this thing flips around.

[55:24]

You're welcome. And now to put it on. Put it on your head first. Put it on top of your head. That's right. Okay. Yeah. Turn it? And on the back of that raksha it says, What is the under-the-robe thing? What is the business under this robe? I did it not in English. What is the under-the-robe business? What is the under-the-robe thing? What is the thing under this robe?

[56:49]

That's a question. Yeah, what is working under the robe? And the answer a thousand years ago was intimacy is what's going on under the robe, which is sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. It's intimacy of our finite life and our infinite life. That's what's going on under this robe. And it's going on whether you have the robe on or not. your finite life and your infinite life are pivoting on each other. Yes? Are things an appropriate response at the same time they are not an appropriate response?

[58:07]

Appropriate response is pivoting with not-appropriate response, which is the same as Buddhas are pivoting with deluded beings. So deluded beings are in the realm of not appropriate response. Buddhas are appropriate response. But the Buddhas are not separate from the inappropriate response. So the Buddha's appropriate response is the appropriate response to inappropriate responders. to teach inappropriate responders that they're not really inappropriate. Because, in fact, they're pivoting with the appropriate response. Wake them up to that. But in order for them to wake it up, the Buddha cannot just go zap! The Buddha has to get the person to start training. The Buddhas are not in control of us.

[59:08]

The Buddhas are teaching us how to be what we really are. And a curl in the bowl, sometimes I hear you say turns on itself or rolls on itself. And I don't know if I've ever heard you say rolls by itself. But I always question the metaphor if it's about, I can imagine a curl always having a point of contact that changes because it's set in motion in the bowl. But is there also an element that there's nothing pushing I think I would usually say the pearl in the bowl rolls on itself, not by itself. We don't do anything by ourselves, we do everything on ourself.

[60:14]

And ourself is others. So we're really rolling on ourselves, meaning we're rolling on ourself being others, and rolling on others as being... So it's, yeah. What's the bowl? What's the bowl? It's not the pearl. the pearls rolling on itself in not-itself. And also, then the balls rolling on the pearl. Many years ago, in all the teaching recently about Let It Be, I think it's scripture.

[61:28]

I think it's scripture, like a Latin translation of Hebrew, that described Mary in the presence of her suffering son. She stood there. Someone could say, you know, should she have intervened? She could have tried to intervene. She could have said, would you guys please take my boy down? Would you stop torturing him? Maybe she did say that stuff, I don't know. She probably cried, but her message in this particular scripture is she stood there, she witnessed, she listened to her boy cry, and she also listened to her own cries. She stood there, she was there, I think is the message I get. That was her contribution to the history of the universe. It's that somebody could stand there in the face of this tremendous suffering of this world, that this person is like saying, okay, I'm suffering.

[62:36]

This is like suffering, and this is like not running away from it, and she witnessed it. And she witnessed her own, and she could stand there and she witnessed his, which means she witnessed our suffering. So first of all, bodhisattvas witness. First of all, they listen. And when the listening is well-trained, we listen and we let the sound, the cry, be just the cry. In the cry, there's just the cry. And then we make appropriate response. And her response was to continue to stand there through the whole process, transmitting this compassion. But I guess she was, maybe you could say, she was good at letting those cries be those cries, observing these suffering, observing suffering beings. So again, suffering beings are pivoting.

[63:37]

The pivoting they know is the pivoting between birth and death, and birth and death. They know that's suffering. And you can add in birth, suffering, death, birth, suffering, death. They're pivoting there. But also, if we let them be, then we pivot with them. And they pivot with birth and death and nirvana, birth and death, nirvana, birth and death, nirvana, or freedom and peace and suffering. freedom and peace, suffering. They're pivoting. There's no freedom and peace without suffering. That's what it's about. There's no point to it otherwise. But the hard part is that there's no suffering without nirvana. Definitely no nirvana without suffering. There's no Buddhas without sentient beings.

[64:38]

The part that's hard to believe is there's no sentient beings without Buddhas, which means there's no sentient beings without Buddhist practice. So really we're not wiggling away from our situation. Really we are letting things be. But somehow can we accept it? And it's hard to accept. But we can train to accept. And we are. I mean, you people are sitting here listening to this strange stuff, you know, and you're somewhat accepting it because you're somewhat staying in the room. And I am too. Is this like saying consciousness rests in cognition only, or consciousness can rest in cognition? Yep, that's another example.

[65:53]

Yes? The last sense to go is consciousness. So, I think, what goes first? Touch goes early, I think. I think, in terms of the five senses, I think hearing is the one that goes last, maybe. The vision goes dark, but also it seems like It seems like touch goes pretty early. A person, you can't feel it, they can't feel their feet. And then smell and taste, maybe it's, I don't know. But anyway, it goes dark and then you can still hear. And then hearing goes, but still consciousness. As long as there's any ability to get to the person's consciousness, it's through hearing, if you want to talk to them.

[67:03]

And then in consciousness there's feelings. And the person might ask you, please remind me as I'm dying to let my feelings just be my feelings. Please keep saying that to me. Please keep saying to me, let my fear just be fear when I seem to be dying. Please give me those instructions. please give me these instructions as I'm dying." And so you could say to the person, and maybe they could still hear you, and then if they can hear you, they can think it in their consciousness, and they can continue to practice with your support. Because it may be hard for them, because of being old, or being in pain, to remember the teachings. Like a headache can make it sometimes really hard to remember the teachings. But if you live in a sangha and you tell people, please remind me when I have headaches, please remind me of the teachings when I have headaches.

[68:11]

Like when I'm walking around like this, come up to me and say, do you remember the teachings? I say, what teachings? Which ones do you want to hear? Just whatever you think would be helpful. So we do remind each other the teachings, we need that. And we remind others of teachings, and we remind ourselves of teachings. This is like remembering in the pain, there will be just the pain. Remember that teaching, because you remember it, you can remember it. But you can't make yourself remember right now, you can remember because you heard it before, and you heard it, and you heard it, and you said it, and you heard it. So then you're blessed with remembering it. And then if you say thank you to that memory, and I don't know how, but you remember to say thank you, then that is conducive to remembering and remembering until total collapse.

[69:23]

We have the benefit of the training to carry us forward when we obviously cannot do anything by ourselves, which we never could. It's all about this practice we're doing together. It's the practice we're doing with the Buddhas and the Buddhas are doing with us. We do not do this practice alone, but we grow up thinking that way. So I cannot remember to do the practice, it's because of our practice that I remember my practice. Thank you very much for helping me remember my practice. Yeah. So the teaching is, in the bliss, let there just be bliss. Or in the bliss, there will be just the bliss.

[70:27]

That's the training. In that question, there will be just that question. That's the training. You can ask the question, but if we're talking about the training, then I would say that's how to train with those questions. And so the questions keep coming, and the training keeps coming back. Let that question just be that question. And that will take you to the place where you already are, which is practicing with all Buddhas. And from this relationship between you practicing with all Buddhas and all Buddhas practicing together with everybody, from that reality the appropriate response comes up, which is to train other people to enter that reality. So entering the reality comes the response which helps people enter the reality from which the response and so on. Yes?

[71:28]

that wonderful teaching of in the seeing there will be just the seeing and the heard and so on. I feel like it's emphasizing the object. It's almost like object only. Let the object of cognition just be the object. I wonder if we could, if it would be another variation of that teaching would be in the seeing, there will be just the seeing. In the hearing, in the experiencing, there will be just the experiencing. I think that's fine, because the subject collapsing into the object pivots with the object collapsing into the subject. So both ways are good.

[72:41]

And we also have that statement, when you experience the seen and the heard, when you... when you... when you... what is how to go? When you... No, I'm talking about... when you experience forms and sounds with your body and wholeheartedly with your body and mind, it's not like the moon reflected in the water or the mirror, the objects reflected in the mirror. It's not like that. It's that when one side is illuminated, the other is dark. So if the object is illuminated, the subject's dark. If the subject's illuminated, the object's dark. So however we can collapse duality, it doesn't matter which way? It isn't that you don't collapse the duality, it's that you take one side or the other and realize that they're pivoting.

[73:53]

You're not really collapsing the duality, you're realizing that they're actually a pivot. So you could rephrase the teaching the way you said it, that would be fine. That would be one way to be wholehearted, and the other way, be wholehearted with the consciousness, with the cognitive process, be wholehearted with the objects. Either way, you'll realize the pivoting. you might disagree, is that there's a pivot between, say, mindfulness and complacency. If complacency is not mindfulness... Complacency being, say, all that I take for granted, and that's sometimes invaded by other things... I would usually use complacency pivoting with anxiety. and mindfulness pivoting with unmindfulness or forgetfulness.

[74:54]

That's the usual pivot. But I think complacency does pivot with anxiety. And you can be mindful of that or not mindful of that. I don't know, I'm not a very anxious person as a rule. Did you say you're not a very anxious person? Yeah, and then you just talked about complacency, taking things for granted. So you do that sometimes? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Some people are anxious and not complacent. Some people are kind of complacent and not very anxious. So the point is to pivot. You don't have to be more anxious than you are. usually are, you can continue to be complacent and take things for granted. And if you really let that be, then you get this reward of anxiety.

[76:01]

But anxiety isn't my issue. No, I'm not saying it is. The issue is what's being given to you. So if complacency is being given to you, then let what's being given to you be what's given to you. And then the complacency will happily pivot with the anxiety, which is now your issue. Letting it be. Letting whatever it is be requires an attention and an action of my being mindful of it. Fully mindful of it. I would rather just take you for granted. Don't interrupt me in my world. No, but again, that's something to be mindful of. Yes, I understand. But you said rather. That's just another opportunity for the mindfulness. Well, I could respond to an eruption into mindfulness with, like, I wish that hadn't happened.

[77:04]

You could have, but again, that would be something to be mindful of. That's not mindfulness. That's not mindfulness where you just said, I wish that hadn't happened. No, I would be forcing unmindfulness to do that. No, that's another opportunity. Yes, I agree. I agree. I don't disagree. Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying. But everything I would consider my world is no longer my world when I become aware of it. It's what is arising, and I can't have an argument with it. And I think a lot of people prejudice, all that, is that what I was able to take for granted, I can't take for granted anymore. I have to be mindful of it. So what is the response when I become mindful, when I practice mindfulness of it? Ultimately, it's going to be that I can't even take myself for granted. And I think it's a fundamental practice of why Zazen is effective, because it's really a practice, a concentrated practice of taking for granted.

[78:08]

Did you say you're violently in agreement with me? Well, I'm not violently in disagreement with you. I'm just mildly, tenderly in disagreement with you. You keep stating the situation as a practice. Yeah, I do think it's a practice. No, I'm saying that's an opportunity for practice. That is not an argument. I'm not trying to have an argument. I'm just saying I think you're missing something. So what are you missing? Tell me what you're missing. The way you would know what you're missing would be that you would know what you're missing. I sometimes know what I'm missing. I have to be silent there.

[79:11]

In silence, you will find what you're missing. And here it comes. We agree. You beat me to it. And you missed what I was going to say. Okay, here we go. Thank you so much.

[79:47]

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