Talk Rohatsu Day 3

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BZ-02516
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thank you
but i have a little list
i think is gilbert and sullivan i have a little list
my little list is a list of opposites
good in bed
right and wrong like and dislike hard and easy delusion and enlightenment
blame him fame
self deprecation
flagellation that doesn't and opposite
obsessive guilt
and not that this this is no longer opposites
the excess of guilt combined composure dualistic thinking beyond duality perfection imperfection success failure
formal informal good zen student beds and student
against it in a good zen student is a beds and student in a bedsit student is a good system
ah the one thing that
i'm not be on being upset
i'll tell you that
even though i'm a bad system
when i hear somebody say i'm about the incident i want us back i'm in the jaw
because their beds incident
not because what they think about themselves but deflected to say that
there's no such thing as a good since student or a beds and student it's simply an ego statement egotistical statement on the bands and students
so please excuse me for being a bad since two

oh
because you think you should be a good sense to week
and because you don't come up to the level of being a good chance you then your bands and student
actually there's no such thing even as a good thing as as instrument much less a good or bad one
basically we're just doing what we're doing
sometimes
we don't come up to our expectations
sometimes
we think that we're doing well
but we're not
i'm
you know as physically urged used to say we just two things one after the other one thing after another
and

the most difficult thing is ah not to get caught in the realm of duality
right and wrong good and bad sometimes we say to a person you're just a person of right and wrong
always judging this this is right this is wrong this is good this is bad
there is right and wrong and good and bad
but the problem is that so if we don't have a foundation beyond
right and wrong good and bad then we simply bounce between polarities

boo
sometimes
we if we are
corrected so to speak
we feel judged
one of the hardest things is for teachers you know to correct students correct means
go this way instead of that way
it's not a matter of judgment it's a matter if you step in that whole you know you
if you're not watching where you're going you in a step in that hole
that's called correction
if you're going this way when you should be going that way it he said
this is correct so let's correction is that judgment
and will we give correction
we often feel that were being judged
as a to right and wrong
so that's a good thing
it's a good thing because
we have the opportunity to look at our self-centeredness
to look at our own how we judge ourselves and how we judge others
ah if we take a look at our
how our consciousness works
how we muttered to herself you know what i mean we're always muttering to are so i find myself muttering to myself you know
when i
it's sometimes very good at the altar and i see her whoever put the things straightened things out
they're not pay attention and a muttering
the myself
can't they see that is off can take but that's the mine the unconscious the
the muttering mine just
no i don't know and then i catch myself
see how this you know i don't want to criticize this person but in my i'm just muttered butter butter back
you're a buyer
so that's a sound is coming up
yeah this is the rub
thank you
so
ah
sometimes you know often we make excuses to sound like the the sound is not to high sometimes we make excuses and are
a
a rationalization rationalize our mutter a refreshed utilize her ex we were corrected
sometimes we in order to escape feeling bad about herself
we make a rationalization and as soon as we make a rationalization we we put a clamp around our leg like a fan
a trap
and then the more we rationalize our behavior instead of simply
ah
accepting
what it is the deeper we get into our whole
the clamp is tighter and tighter and then it's pretty hard to get out
and then ah
we
get caught in
self deprecation in various unwholesome whereas the thinking about ourself and about others
suzuki roshi used to say
it's
it's really good for the student to be mischievous
to show themselves
i like a mischievous student someone who is out there
yeah i did this i did that and i'm that's a good at this and i'm okay about that and simply seeing things as it is and acknowledging our behavior as it is
because it reveals the person and with the person is difficult or easy to deal with you know what you're dealing with
so i think that's important for us
i'm a people say
you know all of us are in a certain kind of practice together
and we rub up against each other in various ways everyone is different and unique and each one of us and we cannot
we can conform to certain behavior to a certain extent
but not completely
so everyone has so-called rough spot or
meaning as but it doesn't that i don't like the
the
so when we're really open with each other
we can accept
ah more easily who we are we m m
you know people say well these people are sense to suck up their act like this and that
right what did students you know
are just people
come
when the weather an old ordinary life where people don't all live together or necessarily practice at a certain way together
they don't necessarily have the same
relationships as said students
but if if we took to twenty or thirty people off the street and but them together
in this kind of situation
it will be interesting
i think we do pretty well even though you know we have problems we all have these problems so
you know suzuki roshi like to emphasize that
our practice that are we practice within our delusions
practice takes place within our delusion
ah
so
and realizing that we practice within our delusions his enlightenment
an enlightened person realizes oh this is delusion or this is the where i am and this is the way i act and i accept the way everyone else acts because i understand that we all as
act according to our conditioning
and everybody's conditioning is different
i remember when we started tassajara
fourteen miles into the middle of the jungle
in the middle of the mountains
i would you can't go to the grocery store you know you can go to the movies and
how do you treat everybody that comes from different
background
so we had to create create
ha ha
menu then use
that everyone can relate to and be nourished by and satisfied with
and that's how it actually we created our then diet which had influence in the sixties and seventies and a a the health healthy food movement
there was a catalyst for that for the healthy food movement
but we had to how how to create a situation where a everyone in that situation
can
find common ground

so we find this com and grab by cities as in
interesting just shut your mouth and sit up
but you know ah
we get easily upset
by when when when
we're sitting thousand likes machine
and
we're building up a lot of energy that's not being released
so are full of this energy is not being released
and ah
so often we see some
you know
we see the person over there the way they wrap their nose you know is he i wish they wouldn't do that
well
and we build up little and at thanked her or
a cases against
certain people
so and then we also
it's possible to start correcting people
they're not doing it right so right and wrong that is you know
can be a kind of problem
when we're in a situation where we have a
kind of formal practice
we think about right and wrong
did we we do things in a correct way
and when it when it's not done incorrectly we get for criticizing
but i have to tell you
if i started doing that i do that sometimes but if i if i'm attached to that i would go nuts
because i see everybody doing everything wrong
except it does not wrong
it's just everybody's doing what they have to do but when i get into a judge mental state of mind i can see that everybody to look at it nobody is doing over yogi completely correctly
that's true
but it's okay it has to be okay
otherwise i go crazy
but we aren't meant to eat you know it and watch the books and everything goes very smoothly now in its own a smooth way that's that's what's interesting even though none of it's totally correct it all works that's our world even though we can't control the way everything goes
we have to flow with the way things actually are without getting upset
yes
that's a good point about we can't control the world so
i like things that particular order in space and said when you're saying that you push the altar and this is also rife or this voice comes up you could have an advocate for this you could leave things a little askew and live with that yet you've chosen to line things up according to
a form that is has balance and kind of brings to the visible what we're trying to cultivate inside i wonder if if leaving things as few like i tried and thousand my own apartment to do that is that actually can be i helped for me will you should do that to accept
much
yeah the cat
these things askew and i actually helps me can live with their well have you have no control over over that whereas in the case of an altar do i you know twig the the boldest were that way and i find myself doing that here from time to time without notice and filling helpful or not i think yes
i think it's that fine
you should go into my apartment
junk is scheduled to come in there
so you know
yes i adjust
the articles on the an ultrasound all oliver
harmonious with each other and but it's okay if they're not because i'm not attached to them being that way it's okay for now and most of them than up so what can i do about that the thing is that
everything is perfect to way it is
so
but that doesn't mean we don't try to make an effort to make things work
in the best way we can
so we make an effort to make things work in the best way they can but
we can't control everything
so
but doing pay creating a situation where we do the best we can dislike that by world
but then
a storm comes and wipes it all away
and then we start all over again known the storm comes in lives that away and then we start all over again than a storm passed constantly so
everything is perfect the way it is but that doesn't mean and i have to like it
and to accept it i yes i have to accept it as mr ruins i said
everything is going exactly the way i wanted to go
as a visual world where do you mean by that he said
everything is justice it is
understanding that we not attached to things being perfect we still set up a pretty high standards for it can you speak to the value of that higher standards that we govern themselves with it depends on what we
mean by her standard
no
ah
and if you if we think that a high standard means that everything has to be to so
that may not be a good high standard
so a high standard may be just to let everything be as it is
or yogi for example
but my point
the challenge of doing it correctly that grab some all over etc the reason it's a challenge the i know what we know that you finish think there isn't any but the reason it's a challenge is because we haven't been trained
it's too hard to train everybody we only do it once a week he did every day with training because the thing about or yorkie
is that there are moves to make everything moves smoothly when you know exactly how to do all the moves everything booze harmoniously and smoothly and that's the pleasure of or aoki that you know you your hand it you make up move with your hand this
this way and sometimes you make a move with your hand this way depending on how you want to make the the utensils like go into the you know
then and so you do one thing after another in a harmonious pattern and then it's very satisfying but we can't teach him burned into bed so that's why we just do the best we can basically
and it works
so my desire
maybe be that we all train in when you go to test a hermit and belt as the same way because they're doing it three meals a day
that's really satisfying but it's satisfying to me if i don't expect it to be anything other than what it is and i'm perfectly satisfied
but the standard so what is the standard right
if i thought that standards should be that everybody should do it correctly that the it's impossible
life's just visit his wrath but we're gaining something pushing the rug
we actually him our spiritual center pushing what rock diagnosis
ps if it goes down every day that's his work yes so yes sir sisyphus
the
the answer to sisyphus is the satisfaction should be in the work itself not in the result
your sisyphus is tied to the result is nothing in frustration
and that's what's happening in to both be comical lives is the resurfacing
so the the satisfaction has to be in the steps in every step that's a that's what taxes and practice the satisfaction has to be in every step and that in the waiting for the result
so it just a minute
from that's why we just sixteen is just living one moment at a time with satisfaction being in each breath we narrowed down to just this breath justice breath just didn't inhale and then excitement and then
the menasha a moment
just this moment just desperate is the whole universe covers the whole universe
so but if the satisfaction was in something else like
doesn't doesn't lead to anything it only leads to hear
so
i'm glad you brought that up if you would be a good analogy sisyphus yeah frustrated because the rock roll back down again then he has been great opportunity to push it up again instead of the chore
but in the work the hard work is the satisfaction
thank you for that out
i think you know
question why can't you were talking just now about michael level of is thought one breath
what we experience learning oz and alerting go to training training and this is i think this is a
of living tension you in a good way that we're not a tree monastery
and yet we're also practiced place that has this
by particular waste of money if are always gonna i
know are you
how to live with that intention and how you see it has applied to us
yes yes
it's just people have the idea of zen training but zen training is simply training to balance
our ego
with our true nature that some training it's nothing else but that and we are priests you know little all priests you know do these other things you know special thing lol it does to me that's not training but training is in training it's not training in fact to see the author
yes the altar there's no one thing that's anymore outstanding and any other thing on the altar when it's out of kilter and the balance is off
so that the altar represents
balance and
the other one a power but the
what it has a message in the messages
that each article is about his balance with every other article other in that space with space around it and each particle relates to every other part imbalance
which is
and there's no one part that sticks out in an egotistical way that says i am
every part every part it is
a connected and plays a part on that stage it's a kind of stage and now the the other people up there you know the buddha manjushri and
those little fuckers and than paul they're placed it away to that they they interpret act with each other
and a harmonious way
how do we want our like learn
learn what's that and we learned what is proper relationship
that's what we're doing guess that's a that's our training
that's sort of training is how do we relate to each other in the right way that gets harmonious and beneficial
that's training
yes
i always like to hear them say you town
i asked
he is now
saga from there
how about we have an example to talk about this question
instead innocuous example like right
why is an example like
or even set of instructions presented as metro up down up
why we needs need home like higher standard of taking care of things
so that for example just recently somebody didn't take care of safety
thirty six young people were burned
why
lot of huge harm is done you know somebody doesn't get
do it right this
so what do you have changed the way of talking about like from one topic i know
i didn't appear to the analogies really line up for me
you sang on perfect is how perfect isn't it
yeah perfect doesn't necessarily mean right
yeah we only had an over sized perfectly well perfect glint means that you know they're the in there are two levels one level is things are just the way they are and the other the level is things are the way i like him or don't like em
or should be or should not be
so everything is perfect meaning
everything is just as it is you can that's right everything everything is just as it and you cannot and you cannot complain i mean you can complain but it doesn't help but with a human level we have right ground good or bad like and dislike what not what and
in bath and drug so there are two levels well so
in our understanding we have to present both levels we have to be were both levels not just one so you understand right
shake yes
yes we
searching the word meat has gone out of use but has been seen by it's me that this should be so that any t
i mean that it should be so it's cloudy it should be cold and sunny that should be yes yeah well but we were know you can get follows rather than should but
it
yeah
it won't it follows that it meet them to send their own generating yeah it's made that's okay that's good
peter i'm kind of wondering when i asked this question
smith to you were trying to raise
there's a connection to for looking at the question which is our
you say it uses his part of everything is innocent he is is it are responding to something which is not right guess that's part of the bottom
that's part of the word as part of the mama
meaning what balanced and situation is is that it is exactly what it is and i'm responding to something that i think yes that's the human that that's right that's that's part of balance in the human realm human grill you you're not outside ago well that's what i just
there were out and catch them and i know
edited it is there are two levels one is the human level good and bad shouldn't shouldn't right and wrong but i think there's a distinction between one example in instance the temple the alternatively talk about it was a i want to be altered and i see the altered know
hours but actually you're part of the ultra to yeah and so get that response you bring you bringing logic balance yourself
i'm bring myself to balance with the all can in the ultra balance system it's of course
without me there wouldn't it be one
if you think about the circumstances that are needed or out of balance on side of one's own perception and participation that i think it's where we get caught
no
that's
over my head
i'm gonna work on well to be avoided i think it will you say
well that whatever we interact with it with it whenever we observed we interact with yes yeah
when we change whatever but the thing itself doesn't change that
the equation changes have been physically context that was happening now
you've narrowly are you my broad
you know that
to adjust things i the to if the author is askew right it means we're not pay attention to
the harmony about the the symbol of the harmony of our practice there
so no matter how are feeling
what would we'd like to
to keep the symbol of our practice it didn't
imbalance since us a message even though we don't
a perceive it
a consciously
ill effects us so i can see now by saying that this example the same thing yes
dean
gonna get the map and one of the things that we get stuck on words i mean i get stuck the horns and it took me a very long time it's out this is perfect of ideas and psychology perfect that what has happened to deal with that if the time when site
there is a and he has found some pettiness focus like someone say it's attitude dependent it's it is what it is and the election was of a sorry yeah it is what it is what it is i left the election party i went on my screen on the safe and i didn't watch the news
are several days and that was so less costly and me and now we're feeling the care taking my mother that have tower over and over and what's not that is i realized it is what it is whether it's good or bad i like it or not i just have to
every thai save the same thing over and over and the cost comes from
judge the monitor all i wish you wouldn't do this well as be great but that's not what it is and i think the thing with what happened is it's not that it's perfect what happened but that is what happened and the way that it's for me i'm fine
it it's so much less costly for me with that's what happened and
i'm wait and i see what i can do or how i can participate but the costa like be an irritant oh yeah i can't do that person they breed so loud all the time well you know what they just do it it's my job to not not
could get so committed to this gives and work
you know
the practices this is too
come back to the calmness of our mind
things happen
and the way to control is to come back to the company's of my mind
because there is to control his herself and were not a self is will we have enough self control meaning not trying to control then
we can
flow with whatever's going on without
and
losing a m
composure
that's that's what i practices that that's or training or training is to be able to maintain our composure
we get an angry we have all his emotional upset and to maintain our composure with in all of that is unpacked that's that's what our training is
the and a
living in the world
and dealing with the high power and contradictions that are continuously playing back and forth
to maintain our composure within all that is our practice
doesn't mean we don't get upset doesn't mean we don't get angry doesn't mean we don't get frustrated but how we maintain our composure within it was difficult emotions difficult problems his what practices and then we can act out of
a bigger mind
a big night
instead of
article our emotions
and then the emotions can be
transformed
interaction
that's beneficial instead of harmful
i just got a very nice experience because
i was very much farmland along what you are saying before grass asked this question that a kind of is rolled around and i wanted it as attached to acknowledging our behavior as of is and i'm getting like a little bit upset that we couldn't get back to the subject that you started although everyone's quest
for an interesting i was still attached to that thing and just as you're answering his question i did let it go and a hand i didn't return to my comments and government now to the remain
a who's good business practices for that
gary gary gary
i mean i have a system for story
i was aggravated with so
hundred sixty one time we this was a lot of time ago and we're doing somewhat bricks and we had a pile of bricks behind the zone though you have to move it with bricks during one period from that behind over here know that and
and then the next day you had a moving about that it was really good
sounds like no way to me
right around i don't know the story behind it so he might have had a real reason but if i thought the train
trinity so why did you get mad
i live in seem it seemed sophistic with events no point if the the the thing but then you know you i think i talk to you about it and in focus on and you said you know if the teacher says open the window this five you open that far
he call this close it because of my first than that kind of cleared it up for me because then i could just
do just do i just do just that well yes to do that that's some trading actually just do a member since ago she talking about washing the windows brushing your teeth you get up in the morning you brush your teeth you don't brush your teeth to get a clean
you simply brush your teeth to brush your teeth he simply to country water you simply watch the window to watch the window not because it's dirty the window is always clean
if you take that literally you have a problem and department
water is always pure is true water is always pure except when it's impure
even when it's impure it's pure
because it's not the water that's impure it's what's in the water fits in pure
water is everywhere
kenny
said
idea that
practice within
so serves option but to learn the a delusion is important
so in in that same spirit is this question what is training what is balanced relationship
connect the dots in terms of up now because i feel like that's the jews at the fuel
the you know and midst of adversity
anchors sometimes it naturally arises sometimes
you know that for vows or the am a counterpart in the for truth
beings are
a number this
i vowed to whatever save them
awaken with them or whatever because
according to the four noble truths
a beings are life is difficult to everybody
that's one way life is difficult
because we all suffer in one way or another it and
there's always something that makes us
unhappy even when we're happy
so and that's that's to the answer i mean that's the response pigs that her
subject to separate i vowed to help them i have been to
but my but that my reason for being alive is to help him
even though i don't know what to do
so and the second truth is
the reason is because of desire
we say delusions
but strictly speaking his desires
and then the second truth for second as is the second bomb is
please a number of a bad thing the deal to desires delusions or
was
i vow to
do something about that
the world is
and then the for the first true the first two are the to problem the second to r the
the response to the problem
a brings the
tommy gates are boundless i got you
ah enter them all right even though the gators endless gates are endless actually you can actually enter the gate anywhere
you can enter the gate of nirvana any place at any time but we keep like investigate
is the game
that's always a dozen whereas the gate where he did well it's right here if you just stop everything and let go
and the fourth in some
the path know like the stereotype is the april beth
i can be the six permitted so it can be thousand and we can be whatever the best news
less response to the
vote for the for about a response to the vote for truth so if you study that that will help you to understand
question

how to respond
eh
yeah
so that it's same time slot or us what's the plant line cause he took a breath of life isn't one day
well that's one way that is that somebody put words in his mouth yep
i mean we have to understand that but
ah
you know he said many you sometimes they didn't say anything right
and there are stories about a a a certain zen masters who get up on the podium
and
top bomb
get down to go away
that's that's my talk and so sometimes someone will ask a question of a buddha and he wouldn't say anything according to the history
very similar actually it's like
it leaves you without anything to hold onto
and then you have to do something
it's beyond all talk is beyond you know talk is great study is great
but
oh and various activities are great but this leaving you with nothing is the greatest
because it's the most difficult and a supposed true
but like you said yesterday's because she said you have to find your own way yes you have to find your own way but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't have companions and mentors
you should have a mentor or sure it's great to have a mentor and it's great to have companions and you should find your own way
that's really important just wandering around when footwear
during difficult you know so we help each other to find a our own way
the whole saga helps each person to find their own way
that's interactive
that's the one and the many you know what and belly is
all a suzuki roshi talks about the one in the betty
tell about expressing a expressing the hearts future expressing the sand okay expressive you the was there my ex
one and med it's what it's all about and all our questions are based on that though we don't know it
all the responses are based on had otherwise it's just dualistic stuff just talk
and that and what makes it difficult is that it's hard to to block the line between world isn't duality even though that the same thing
i didn't turn my paper over
but anyway good conversation thank you