Suffering and Faith

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can aspire to thank you good morning is not my the pleasure and honor to welcome today's speaker current sometime karen is one of our way back people she began practicing the ipcc and nineteen seventy six when the center was located on lightweight
in nineteen ninety six she was later gained by surgeon roshi and her dominate his new porsche which translates to gentle rain dharma lawsuit
keeping up with the sixes and twenty oh says she was to sell or head student at easy
in two thousand and ten she was received her green marker suit which is the symbol of play interesting for surgeon russian over the years karen has lectured here i taught various classes but many study groups and health many practice positions she's currently the person who's
schedules speakers for sadducees
if i can't thank everyone wanted going to have
get her professional life journey is a longtime librarian she's currently in charge of it for now lgbt center at san francisco public library etc at civic center and she also very leads a weekly meditation group
karen is recently engaged to her longtime partner of some sixteen years nancy soup
i'm for to that celebrations and
i asked caring what her outside interests were what she did for fun and she said i don't have any time for that too busy guy happy to know that she loves to hike
have a height with her and she can she's a strong hiker or to keep up with her
i just five carat as when the most compassionate down to earth
plain speaking honest thoughtful caring and full of humor persons i've ever met place well here
i wasn't prepared for that instead of
i thank you jay
today after the top we're going to have a ceremony and the ceremony celebrates food as of nirvana which has actually just physical death so i'm not going to say that much about it
except that
i'm thinking about death and dying which is something that we all face
is an inspiration for me to talk about my two favorite topics in practice suffering and faith
so i'll start with suffering even though i was planning to talk more than face it's hard to talk about
the face without talking about suffering
so suffering is the buddhist most fundamental teaching
his very first teaching ah after
he experienced his awakening under the bodhi tree after many years of practice his first teaching was the four noble truths and the first truth is that in life there is suffering
it's not about dwelling on our woes and are haynes and saying that life is that
not that that that at all but it's really about is the inevitability of suffering as suffering can be little things like day to day changes in our lives to very big devastating pain that we all experience also at some point through law
loss
eating all sorts of things so the
what the buddha really top was that suffering is something that we have to experience and except
now
i know that many of us came to this practice because we're trying to cope with suffering and very often we're trying to find a way out of it
i think that's natural it's kind of the human way
we're also looking for fixes cures crutches
and
you know we might be looking for a special diet a special work out something to guarantee that we're not going to die young or for not going to suffer through old age also often we're looking for certainty and predictability
we want to know that were
gonna be secure
for example
at this moment fortunately i'm i'm i'm fortunate this moment to be healthy i don't have a serious illness that i'm aware of but i would really like to know that that would go on for a long time
but i don't know that and that lack of knowing
ah causes suffering in my life
and
so a lot of our practice
is in accepting things that we might not like and while we have a lot of positive things happen knowing the things are always in flux
to you know when i came to practice i really pet this goal of pain com and fearless that's what i wanted to be but then every time i sat down you know what did i see
chaos and
fear and anxiety

and then of course the question is like why do i keep going why do we keep going
ha
so in my practice i wanted to confront sear and then at some point around them the early nineties i was on a meditation retreat was not didn't happen to be as every tree but i actually hadn't experience of not having fear and it's a very poor
profound experience for me
and
but then you know that lasted a brief period and then
probably within ten minutes i don't know
it
the mind that i was more familiar with we turned
and then i was kind of mad about that you know i thought it had some chief meant but there's just nothing to hold onto
ah
so
i didn't five am aware though that
i and many of the people in this room keep practicing for years and years decades and so i did want to talk about face a bit
even though we don't talk about a quite as much i find i don't hear that word used but
a couple things i'll say about it is that faith and faith in our practice is really not about beliefs and it's not about depending on some kind of external power to save us
you know buddhism is not a theistic religion although the buddha never said anything against god for for god so there was really no opinion here but it's more about working with our own minds
our own tendencies to claimed of things to want have certain things happen and when good things happen to keep it and that
we want to avoid other things we want to avoid certain feelings are you know a lot of a stunt like ceilings a angry or depressed or frightened and we don't want to lose what we have
ah but this practice is really about making peace with our minds
so i'd like to read a little bit of a poem that was written in those six century by a chinese one of our ancestors
same song he was the third ancestor the third chinese ancestor
and
this poem is called face in mind
sometimes it's translated into trust in mind
and it's a rather long poems are just picking a few verses to read
so
hundred and be jumping around a little bit better
the supreme way is not difficult if only you do not pick and choose neither love nor hate and you will clearly understand
if you want it to appear be neither for or against for and against opposing each other this is the minds disease
there's no need to seek the real just extinguish your views
do not abide and dualistic views take care not to seek after them as soon as there's right and wrong the mind is scattered and last
it is not good to weary the spirit why alternate between aversion and affection
if you wish to enter the one vehicle do not be repelled by the sense realm
faith and mind are not to
non duality his face in mind
the

sometimes i work non duality can seem kind of mystical and i don't like to say it because it sounds kind of intellectual
but what i will say is that says something about what duality is okay because mostly we're involved and duality you and that is
when we're thinking that this is the right way to be or this is the long way to be
what this is nirvana and this is just ordinary
a suffering
samsara
wisdom and ignorance
craving this and not that
what i love about zazen is that is the time when we can really practice
non-duality because it will drop our opinions are crusades our goals
and in sauce that all thoughts are equal
i really appreciated this because one of the biggest obstacles i've had my practice was obsessive thinking and i thought all i need to do is stop thinking and then everything's gonna be fine
and that has hardly ever happened
they actually has happened a few times and it's been very profound however then the mind starts thinking again and then of course i would be evaluating while this is a nice thought you know maybe i've progressed on the path because i'm feeling kind are now in this moment you know kind
towards this person who i used to not like
so there's this evaluation going on of what's in our minds but actually
in zazen where
we're penetrating that ah
where were distant actually are disengaging from that narrative that story that's always going on that story about me you know sometimes it's a great story and sometimes it's a sob story

but actually palm
sometimes there's this misconception that what we're really trying to experiences nothingness so when we keep coming back to the breath and we're letting go of those thinking patterns it's not nothingness
it's not about nothingness it's about a totality
the mind is alive
now this book or i actually love this is a commentary on faith and and it's by a chinese master named zhang yan who actually passed away fairly recently
but it's a great book sexually
a retreat a bunch of talks he gave going through the vs of this poem so
he had he has a couple of really good quotes one is
if the mind can't settle don't be resentful
and don't be afraid of difficulties
sometimes i think you know we're afraid to let go of our opinions because you know who am i without my opinions
and perhaps there's a fear that one might do something terrible of if we weren't controlling ourselves all the time

i remember
buddhists writer named rate of growth i don't know if you've heard of her she wrote this book called buddhism after patriarchy and she wrote a lot of feminists books and she was kind of well known in the earlier days of feminism she was very outspoken and quite
volatile and opinionated and spent a fair amount of time
yelling at people
and that was kind of common in a lot of political movements i think at the time not just feminism but she got this reputation and people didn't want to really deal with her
what does she practiced er
she's still practices as far as i know but one thing she said later in life was
once i stop being angry people started listening to me
and it wasn't her viewpoint that really changed i mean she's still have the same ideals but it's more about
how the mind is working
giving up our views doesn't give me that we are
don't practise certain
waves that
are important for the benefit of all people

are there honey
comments or questions with time and six and i we started late
our town
hi boss for
i was
i was struck by your comments are very beginning of your talk about returning to the familiar in felt that you had a very profound experience and relief of your suffering for a bit of time and that was unfamiliar he was a little that you want it and it was kind of a here
in this practice so i'm
what if you could say something about why it's so difficult for us to stay with the unfamiliar even though it had the conditions are encouraging us to do and we actually have experiences of
a benevolent some and positive things it's sort of a counter intuitive in a moment and when you look back at that moment in your your practice among moment you've had that release wasted about that familiar or unfamiliar the oscillation that's a very kind of mine
i think we do that all the time the familiar even though it's often negative is more dependable and a lot of ways we prefer dependability and certainty to happiness and uncertainty
i mean there's a whole biological theory about that can only we came from reptile when you know we have a reptilian brain that's always on the alert for
protection
the wants to look for threats out there but actually be
ah
i think it's part of our nature to prefer something we know something we don't know it reminds me of that famous call on where
it's an old call on that many of you have probably heard were student asked his teacher
where are you going
and teacher says i don't know and then students says well what do you mean you're going and you don't know where you're going and the teacher says not knowing is the most internet

what what you just said realized he had an episode out in the promised my years ago when i was intensely suffering about
nat
he was about
is it the beginning a relationship which is working to see
but
she had gone
up to oregon because the thought of the time i was in a with vulnerable situation and of course you know the death of your last parents huge and
and communication was difficult be and i have
you know obsessing over it is this really going to be is this kind of be a relationship versus issues going to stay it not as intensely suffering about this and i get and journal and i remember riding thinking
why would i choose to suffer
because i realized that's when i was doing i mean i didn't have to believe any of these things because he he he was one of those knows what's gonna happen situations when i thought of a deal that that and
ah
what do you suffering a heart teams think that it was because those was more familiar well yes absolutely quick cause the
if it's familiar pain can be more
and so laying in a way he had the yeah now and also depending on the and i reflected on other situation like that
of course if you're really suffering than nobody can expect much of you of because
how could be your stuff previous criticism
i can completely sympathize with that i mean it's very
it's very hard and then you can realize that and it doesn't make a phone call away in fuck it sure is a big first step even and then what is the real fear
well obviously in my case it was no fear of the loan which
i never which only went away when i realized that connection had as a whole not with another person he is what crafts
yeah that idea that why would you choose to send while our minds have these very intense habits and really
pop you know thousand is a great way to unlock ourselves from some of those you know circular patterns we get ourselves in and actually when i had that experience that very brief experience of not having fear
it turned out it really scared me and it's kind of to say that but it was a difference between kind of habitual fear that chronic fear that you're talking about on compared to not knowing where really
a vast amount of space opened up inside me and outside and i saw and felt everything much more deeply
and of course i had to shut that down a bit eventually
you know i almost craved my own former ideas and patterns because they did offer some comfort however
that experience has had a lot to do with my faith in practice
that there is so much more than just as habitual way that we see things on
and that
you know our were capable of really
tolerating and being open to a lot more than we are
who couple of people have their hands up
simply an ethically ah earlier you said you can't talk about faith without talking and also are suffering that we just did a really good chuck them talking about faith in something when point competence is currently wasted
you just seriously
hey i've been asked my machine early like mannequin
why never would want to say also that there's not a lot of joy for life
promise we'll worry about it going away homes and that's where the suffering comes in but there's
lots to love to see which and kind of laughing and childlike because i first met reader gross in new york city as dot com leading a compassion and nonviolent communication even would have a hundred years of so and i knew nothing
the hot
you have
and i both us when i'm actually a what was so powerful about that workshop is that they fully engaged anger as as an enlivening energy and then spoke about it in terms of power to seeing what is engaged buddhism hidden on what is spiritual activities etc what does
it's show up and i loved the way you as i heard you frame this is that we don't have to give up our users the
well we don't have to give up a our way perhaps of expressing
and so i'm just thinking of you don't file teachings of the buddha you need a lamp to oneself and also the teaching high of permanence and i'm just wondering he also talked about of to my understanding the distinction between
save the energy of anger and the intentionality of ill will and so one of the things that i find myself often practicing with and it's always in relationship
is how to
expressed and becomes really alive in that energy making it's a human experience
at the same time
what is the nature of ill will
well we are you episode of question yeah i was just thinking about your experiences and especially around the fear thing that are these the musician
yeah variances of fear one was opening tune when i would call the intimacy of relationship me
and that not knowing co on and the whole collection of coins so filled with thirty loaves and anger and anger of been on the surface so i'm just wondering i don't know what your pointer would be on how to work with that energy of celery anger comes up and now have a spin into until
me
well ill ill wills a form of hate
and that's something that we have
look at careful in here you know when we practice we usually are looking at either grasping for hated
i'm so
i would look at the bigger picture
i'm trying to think of an example but
a
one may feel a certain ill will towards another person but expressing that to them in that way would not be helpful one would think one would have to look at a
one's own motivation whether it's a personal thing or for the greater good
but
i would
train the mind away from ill will i mean

trying to think of how to say this better yes you are
hi thank you for your talk and when i'm picking you have spoken to us a number fear and that you're i
thanks of your wiser i'm sure you have a fair number of instances with anger has risen as yeah the software people from the library thank you
he's from the of and of it you know i bow to your wisdom and the passion well i really appreciate do you bringing up the fact that i deal with a will will all the time i'm sitting here and feeling so good know
i just couldn't quite come up with an example
actually that is true and
where i work i have people move in
spit at me and yell and
yeah just there's a lot of kind of verbal abuse and stuff so
what i personally do with that is a i keep the attention i tried to keep the attention on myself rather than the other person who i may want to strangle at that time
and i a kind of do sort of an observation a personal observation of my reaction and so that i'm very aware of my reaction and i'm also aware that i'm not going to take anything you know there are a lot of things that people do that are not okay and i will
voice that so it's not like turning the other cheek but at the same time
in those particular situations i am calm and from i don't get real emotional about it but that's a situation where i have to set a boundary
yes kid i was thinking about this question as you were talking and
reflecting that
i think that when i get angry with someone a more someone who is close to me it in it's in part a desire not to feel the hurt
that that has brought and if i am angry in person and is their fault
that and then i don't have to or is an attempt not to feel pain
in
i think that's a really good point too
and that's part of the whole observation hopefully we have enough psychological insight to notice that
and to be able to stand it
you know a lot of faith i think involves being able to stand but comes up in the mind and sometimes when hurt comes up with feel hurt by somebody else
you know you want to throw that away by being angry or self righteous hurt
number whatever but just to be there with them
so thank you for her
oh hi i
i also use discussion in anger or
you will by cinema by itself at least an actor
the anger is just sort of part of a larger
force or something we've been we've it also has within it
dry and integrity and determination and these things that we call positive move along with the phone negative isn't really any separating all these labels we attach to it so
this cycle
the paper is you're saying if you can pay
accepted it from monuments
because maybe something that's nice
not a string
well i think that's an important point in its goes back to what we're talking about with made of growth who had a lot of important things to say but didn't say them in a way that people
could be late but you can say the same things in anger has this very precise mental quality you know where you can often see things
sometimes you can see things quite clearly and you that can be used in the very positive way
there yet that ties with what i was thinking of that and i work and doing mediation and often caught up in other people's anger and also like anger in reaction to what's going on
it said know how has work with with anger feels like intern so the way i think of is that anger is like a firearm the bell fits it's important because it gives you information that there's something wrong and then angeles and what's wrong is if there's a a split or
separation the rift and urgent a tear relationship for some time that needs attention
the alarm doesn't put the fire
then you actually have to step back and listen to the environment figure out what it is that needs to be done about whatever it is that the angriest content is that kind of two-step process and
hey my fight climate about that it sets a lot of work it's exhausting
it is
thank you
hide you know
i just thinking about that but what you said about
know when when we had these habits of mind slipping so that could never again in but i didn't think that effort to until things come to mind you know what is when you make an effort in practice can you make an effort the citizen
to actually let go
and actually just focus on guess he didn't notice said when you start off you can it can happen not infrequently when you start off the occupied or reactive it suddenly bell rings and you're not that way that's not happening
so i think we you experience the fact that our city practice actually
changes a lot but that it ourself know if we've been experiencing permanence of our feelings we experiencing provenance of ill will
and whatever whatever emotions i pick him up and so once we can experience the the impermanence than eight know it's a different world mean even if it's just that here
even if is a painting and way goes away from two seconds even that's that's better than not an expert in the sent and the other way for me it's just looking at people ram is now you see people practice for a time just taxing wow
no
maybe could i be like that
so that was always inspired to make work practices to see it
change can even though i don't
aim for i just notice making how they are nothing
there must be something else
he said thompson
the
america okay
i don't know i don't have for watch mom but i think it is time so thank you very much for listening and sharing