Good morning. Well, the sky is cleared up and the chill is off the day. We are in the middle of our practice period here at Berkeley Zen Center with our shuso who's taking notes over there. I haven't even said anything yet. and everything is cooking along and actually it's really cooking along today because we have our mid-practice period dinner and so John's koan that he's lecturing on and he'll have a couple more opportunities I believe is from the wonderful Zen master Joshu, and it's case two in the Blue Cliff Record, the great way is without difficulty, right?

[01:08]

And I thought I would touch on another case of Joshu's today, sort of to be in consonance with Harshiso. And, you know, I guess two weeks ago, I was in Texas for a week, teaching at Austin Zen Center and the Houston Zen Center. And, you know, as many of you are aware, I've been traveling quite a bit over the last months and years, really. And, you know, when I go to Zen centers, there's sort of two categories of places that I tend to visit. One are places in our immediate Suzuki Roshi family and then there's all the rest which are quite similar and I feel I can feel very at home at any of them but there's something about really being at home when

[02:24]

when we visit a center in our family. And I had, in Texas, I had the opportunity to spend a bunch of time talking to Kosho McCall, who some of you may know from Dasahara. He's now the head teacher at the Austin Zen Center. And then Galen Godwin, who's the abbess at the Houston Zen Center, and we spent a lot of time talking about our family way, what is the mark of it, and I think what I've experienced, what I experience here day to day, and in those places, what I experienced at Tassajara, what I experienced quite astonishingly, when I went to Japan for the first time, which was about 26 years ago, and we went to Suzuki Roshi's temple, Rinzoin, was this just experiencing a kind of warmth and generosity and a dedication to

[03:49]

practice inside and outside the zendo, and a kind of subtle informality within the formality of the practice itself, and vice versa, a sort of subtle informality within the formality, and a subtle formality within the informality, if that makes any sense. So that's, by the way, background. I want to explore this a little more, but the context is this koan that I'd like to share with you, which is also from the Blue Cliff Record. It's also from Joshu. John, I think, talked a little about Joshu in his lecture. I heard the lecture. I'm grateful to be able to listen to it on online.

[04:51]

So we're talking about Zhou Shu, or Zhao Zhou in Chinese, who lived, he was born in the 8th century, and he lived to the age of 120. Anyway, I'll give you a little, I'll say a little more about him, but here's the case. Monk asked Zhou Shu, Having heard for a long time about the stone bridge of Joshu, when I come here, I see only a simple log bridge. Joshu said, you see only the log bridge, you don't see the stone bridge. The monk said, what is the stone bridge? Joshu said, it lets donkeys cross, it lets horses cross. So a monk comes and says, I see only this simple log bridge, you know, a log thrown again, really a log thrown across the stream.

[06:04]

And just by way of just some background, the town, Zhaozhou, was famous for its stone bridge, which is one of the three most famous bridges, I believe, in of China and so it was renowned for that. It was also then often the the master in a place took the name from the mountain or the place that he or she was sitting in. So Zhao Zhou's name referred to him as the stone bridge, you know, something really strong and reliable, which of course takes people across the street from one side to the other. And the monk comes and says, well I don't see a stone bridge.

[07:07]

He's saying this to Cao Cao and he says, I just see a log bridge. And Cao Cao says, well you see the log bridge but you don't see the stone bridge. in a challenging way. Well, what is the Stone Ridge? And Choshu said, it takes donkeys across, it takes horses across. So there's a verse, as there are in the Blue Cliff Record, by Setso, the compiler of the collection, and he says, not setting up the solitary and dangerous His road is truly high." Meaning, Joshu. Having entered the sea, you must catch a giant turtle. How laughable. His contemporary, Kanke, the elder, although he knew how to say a swift arrow, it was wasted effort.

[08:09]

So I was talking about this case of talking about donkey's cross and letting donkeys cross and letting horses cross with Sojin Roshi this morning just saying I feel like this characterizes our school and I would say it characterizes the teachings of Suzuki Roshi and the teachings of our teacher and he said well just remember Sojin Roshi often be a turning word he said Just remember that donkeys are half-assed. I don't mean to contradict you, but I went and looked it up. I think they're whole assed. But I had to go look it up.

[09:15]

So just a little more background. Nansen met his teacher when he was 18 and he was with him for 40 years until his teacher died. When he came, when he was ordained, he went to Nansen before Nansen was actually formally his teacher. You said Nansen when you met his teacher. I'm sorry, no, thank you. Joshu met his teacher Nansen when he was 18. So after his ordination, he went to Nansen's room and said, do you know, Nansen said, do you know the name of this monastery?

[10:18]

And Nansen had been taking a nap in his room. He was lying down. The boy said, Sacred Elephant Monastery. And Nansen asked, then did you see a sacred elephant? And Joshu, the boy, said, I did not see any sacred elephants, but I saw a reclining Bodhisattva. Nansen raised himself up and said, Have you your own master now? Yes, I have, said the boy. Who is he, asked Nansen. to this boy, to this, the boy, Joshu, made a formal bow, a kind that's only given to your true teacher, and he said, spring cold is still here, as it was this morning. Please take good care of yourself.

[11:22]

That story I found actually in a lecture by Suzuki Roshi, who lectured on this case. And then they continued to practice nonsense. As some of you may recall, it's famous for the case where two monks were fighting over a cat. and he seized he took the cat away and he said if you can say a true word you can save the cat and no one he did this in front of the whole sangha no one answered and uh as it is recounted whether it happened or not uh Nansen shocking.

[12:29]

That evening, Joshu had been away and when he went to see Nansen, as he returned, Nansen told him about this. Joshu took off his sandals and put them on his head and he walked out of the room. And Nansen said, as he walked out, he said, if you had been there, you could have saved the cat. So this is the character, I think, of the teachings that we've been offered and given by these old people. people of old rather some of them weren't so old just very warm very immediate and really to the point this is what what joshu was known the characterization of joshu's teachings was sometimes it's referred to as lips and tongue zen

[13:59]

words, he used words very simply, but cutting it to the point. I think that, you know, today His Sangha could have sold t-shirts with Rolling Stones logo on them. Lips and tongue would have been perfect. Yamada Roshi talks about Joshu, and he says this, As I mentioned about Joshu in my Teisho yesterday, all traces of Satori and Zen brilliance had been worn away, and there remained only this perfectly ordinary man. This is why when the monk came to Sangha in this case, you know, he was expecting to see something grand and he saw, you know, only this very simple mock wearing, you know, probably a patched robe and not too impressive in his demeanor.

[15:21]

Looks like a simple log thrown across the street. So all traces of Satori and Zen brilliance had been worn away and there remained only this perfectly ordinary man. He goes on, when we attain realization we are first glittering and glistening with the shiny covering of Satori, of awakening. We compare it to a bamboo stalk which is still green and wet in its newness. As the bamboo ripens and ages The greenness will disappear and reveal an aged and mellow shaft. No bamboo artisan is interested in green, unripe bamboo. Another famous case that's relevant here

[16:26]

There's another dialogue between Nansen and Joshu, case 19 in the Mumankan. You've heard this before, I think Sojan Roshi has lectured on this. Ordinary mind is the way. Joshu asked Nansen, what is the way? Nansen said, ordinary mind is the way. Joshu said, should I turn towards it or not? Nansen said, if you turn towards it, you turn away from it. Joshu said, well how can I know the way if I don't turn towards it? And Nansen said, the way is not about knowing or not knowing. When you know something, you are deluded. And when you don't know, you are just empty-headed. When you reach the way without doubt, it's as vast and infinite as space.

[17:29]

You can't see it. You can't say it's right or wrong." With those words, Joshu had an understanding. So, this monk comes, and in this typical Zen fashion, there might be some bit of arrogance in his question. in his proposition, well I came to see, I heard about this stone bridge, I heard about this great Zen master for a long time, but I come here and I find this kind of ordinary guy. Yamada Roshi says, Joshu's reply to the monk is like a fisherman lowering a line to catch a fish.

[18:32]

And the monk jumps at the bait. He says, what is the stone bridge? What's the real Joshu? Is there any more than what I'm actually seeing here? Is there any substance here? And Yamada Roshi says, well, and he swallows the hook. And Joshu immediately fires back, it lets donkeys cross, it lets horses cross. I like Yamada Roshi's commentary very much. He says the mirror, without willing it, reflects everything that comes before it. You could also say the bridge, without making any effort, allows all beings to cross, irrespective of what we might characterize as difference.

[19:39]

So, Yamada Roshi goes on, the pretty, the plain, the beautiful, and the ugly are all reflected in the mirror just as they are. One has something of this feeling about the stone bridge in today's koan. It doesn't say a word. The bridge doesn't say a word. Joshu-osho doesn't say a word. But when a horse comes, it can trot across. When a donkey comes, it can amble across. And then he leads into the verse. Yamada Rakshi says, it seems like something special, but his way is very high. So that's just the verse, not setting up the solitary and dangerous, his road is truly high. So this solitary and dangerous is this kind of the drama of Zen that we read about.

[20:48]

you know Rinzai's shout or Tokusan's blows or Gutei holding up one finger, this is all, in this case, Setsuo is talking about this as solitary and dangerous. In other words, there's a drama to it, whereas there's no drama to being a bridge and letting donkeys and horses cross. There's nothing seemingly special. It's really ordinary way. Ordinary mind has way. It's the bridge's function to just allow beings to cross and it doesn't discriminate among them.

[21:54]

When you actually think about, again, this is my five-minute study of donkeys on Wikipedia, they're actually the same genus, they're genus Equus, so there's not a lot of difference between donkeys and horses. But we've domesticated horses to some degree, and so we've learned how to tune to them, and they've learned how to tune to us, sort of like dogs. We grow up in interdependence to each other. And you might think of donkeys sort of like cats. the reputation that they have for stubbornness is because they're not really paying attention to you and me you know they kind of want to go their own way and it's really hard work to get them to go the way we want them but they have very similar natures just as everybody in this room has uh you know we have a room full of

[23:14]

donkeys and horses and dogs and cats and I wouldn't propose to say which is which or even which I am because actually we're changing each moment each moment as we're reborn we're a donkey or we're a horse but still we can all walk across the bridge So, just quickly, because I want to get to this thing about our family way, it says in the poem, having entered the sea, you must catch a great turtle. So, basically, what Seto is saying, don't settle for something small, you know, don't settle for a, you know, it's like, not a sunfish, or a herring, but go for it, go for something large, something that covers a great deal of ground.

[24:29]

Have that ambition. But he's also saying, then he turns the poem. So there's this Conque, he says, his contemporary, Josh's contemporary, Conque the Elder, although he knew how to say a swift arrow, it was wasted effort. So it's using Conque by way of contrast. And the story there, somebody came to Conque in this kind of collective Tang Dynasty record of Zen master saints, we have questions very much like the question to Joshu. A monk asked Kanke, I've heard for a long time about Kanke, but coming here all I find is a little pond. So Kanke means valley stream.

[25:35]

So I heard about the valley stream, and all I see is a mud puddle. So it's very much the same kind of thing. Kanke says, you only see the puddle, you don't see the valley stream. Very much like Joshu's response. Then the monk says, what is the valley stream, Kanke? And Kanke says, a speeding arrow. This is what Setso is setting up as the other kind of Zen expression, the Zen expression that is you know, sharp and dangerous and a little sort of conceptual and also a little full of itself.

[26:48]

There's a wonderful commentary in In Suzuki Roshi's commentary, he says, the Zen master is supposed to be tough enough to remain faithful to the way. And then he says, but it's all the better to be not so tough and follow the way. One more story. I like stories. I hope it's okay. One day when Joshu, this is also from Suzuki Roshi's commentary. One day when Joshu was cleaning the main hall, a monk came and asked him, why is there dust? So Joshu, he was cleaning the hall. And the monk said, why is there dust in the hall to clean? And he had come in the hall, and Joshu said, because dust comes from the outside.

[27:53]

The monk says, I cannot recognize a pure, clean hall that would have any dust in it. Joshu said, I see one more piece of dust over here. Sometimes when the light, particularly in the afternoon of Seshini, is coming through the windows, those western windows, you see all these streams and particles of dust. and they settle here and they congeal into us. So for me the heart understanding of a koan, not being a Rinzai adept, I guess what I try to do is not to find out so much what it means as, or to get it right, as to let its suggestions and to study the connections.

[29:08]

That's why in a taisho you present a kind of wide circle of commentary that sort of circles around the core story, but to see these connections and let them work on me, work on you and then find a way, to me an understanding of Koan is find a way can I embody, can I actually become what the Koan is talking about in that moment and if one can become what the Koan is talking about then One adds that to the human capacity that we have, that's cultivated by this practice. So, I think this is our family style.

[30:11]

We have a degree of formality. We have a degree of discipline and at the same time we try not to cultivate any expectations or any particular gaining idea, just to be here and be with each other and practicing together and helping each other. helping each other, we help each other sit as we sit next to each other, side by side, and that's one of the great things about the practice period is like, you know, today, this morning, early periods of Zazen, the Zendo was full, you know, and Kipa had to get up, keep getting up, which is Saturday director, and put out places, because there were a lot of people sitting together,

[31:18]

way we started the first opening session. So there's this both this intention and the generosity of each person to come and share their practice with each other and then to practice daily together to come here. You know, people have been coming on their lunch hour, but people have been coming in the morning and afternoon really strongly. And then, of course, the Shuso is here every day, sitting with us, supporting us with his practice. We place close attention to the forms. You know, when I see I was really moved in Texas to see the sincerity of the practice there, and even though, as John will tell you in his commentary, the Great Way is not difficult if you can avoid picking and choosing or comparing, you know, it's inevitable to see

[32:47]

ourselves and our sangha in the reflection of the places that one goes to and to see to reflect on how much depth and maturity there is in this room and how we do pretty detailed stuff very naturally and easily because we've been trained that way we've been doing people have been doing it for years and new people are welcome and are always folded into that as they wish to be. And yet the spirit of that is marked by a warmth towards each other. That's the family way. That's what I felt in Texas. I was astonished when I arrived at Rinzow Inn in the middle of the night, I think this is 1989, and the whole community was there and they were all working on a temple fair they were going to have the next day and they just folded us into the activities.

[34:10]

We were just immediately in the family because we were in the family. So this is the, as Dogen talks about, towards the end of the Genjo Koan, it's the golden wind of Buddha's house. It's the wind of Suzuki Roshi's family, it's the wind of Sojin Roshi's family, and then we have so many brothers and sisters throughout throughout the West, throughout the Bay Area, throughout the country now. And it's wonderful to be part of that family and to recognize that all beings are a family. It's just us donkeys and horses constantly crossing the bridge.

[35:14]

So I think that's where I'm going to end. We have a little time for questions or thoughts or comments. Thank you horses and donkeys and dragons and elephants. Yes, in the back. I can't see who you are. It's Tom. Hi Tom. I wanted to say that my younger son Kessel often asks me why I can't see the wind. And what do you tell him? I tell him to see things move by the wind, but he can't see the air, even when it moves. That's pretty good. I think you might tell him to keep looking. And then when he finds it, he should tell us all, OK? He'll look. I mean, Kessel is kind of a live wire.

[36:16]

He might actually find it. Yeah. Thanks for the talk this morning. It was lovely. And I always appreciate the whole family that's here. And so that sentiment is duly appreciated and reflected. I went on a camping trip recently. It was a hiking trip. And we crossed a river 24 times. Same river back and forth. Yes. Same river back and forth. And it was low, so it wasn't hard. But at one point, there was a log that was crossing it. And we thought, ha, let's go cross the river. But no, there's no way. We were donkeys. And we crossed the stone bridge, which is the water itself. To me, seeing a log, which is one way that is safe for some but not for all, is restricting. And the stone bridge that is the stream itself is where I would take my donkeys and horses. And it has a lot more opportunity to cross.

[37:20]

Yeah. If the water ain't too quiet. But yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Your story reminded me of a time I was hiking in the woods with my dog, who's a big golden retriever. And she was off leash and we came to a log crossing a rushing stream of high banks. And I went across and turned around and looked and my dog was standing on the other side saying, no way. So I went back and I tried to encourage her and she was still, no way. And I thought, I've got to get to the other side. My friends are way down there. I can't pick up this dog and carry her or we'll both tumble in. You know, what do I do? And it took me about a half hour to get that dog. with me sitting on a log and scooping back and forth across. I can't imagine what it would take to get a donkey or a horse to cross a stream on a log.

[38:22]

It might be facilitated by, like, a hamburger. Donkey or the dog, but not the donkey or the horse. I don't know. I don't know. I don't purport to know the animal realm, you know, but it's tricky. Yeah. Thank you so much for your talk. When you were talking about the filtering desk in Mazendo, I was reminded of something I recently read again somewhere, that apparently it's the literal physical fact that we are comprised mostly, more than 50% by or not, bacteria. And you, not me. No, I'm clean. Yeah. We're... It's the line from, oh yeah, Crowley-Silton National Woodstock, we're stardust. Yeah. No, I think that this is true.

[39:38]

It's also true from what I understand that every molecule that one breathes in contains atoms that were breathed by every being, great and small, that ever lived. That's kind of mind-boggling thought. I don't know if that's apocryphal science or not. Ninety percent of our body cells consist of non-human DNA. Non-human DNA? That's correct. So the aliens are already here, that's right. I've been watching the X-Files.

[40:40]

No, but I think that's right. I mean, the more we contemplate the mystery, both the more astonishing it is, and yet it's completely ordinary. Completely ordinary. It's time for maybe one or two more. Thank you for your talk. I was and I am very much in resonance with the stone bridge of Maya Angelou and her life words. And this poem of hers that came to mind as I was listening to your talk, there's just one line, when you come to it, which is talking about when we come to it, to see the humanity in each other. And someone shared this story on Facebook, and he had actually this almost falling apart piece of paper that was written on by Maya, and he's a Fletchland poet, and so he happened to be sitting next to her on a plane,

[42:05]

And so he asked her to take a look at some of his poetry and so forth. And he said he was just blown away, basically, by her humanity. And he asked her if she could suggest a reading list. And so she scribbled it on his plane. And he said something like, well, why would you bother with me? And she said, young man, you are my child. and she went on and so on. And he shared this and I thought about how many people are seeing this piece of paper and this story and you were talking about stories and I was just thinking about the power of story to be that bridge. And so my question to you is not knowing how the horse and how the donkey hear it with birds or bacteria or whatever.

[43:16]

How do you tell a human story in a way that all beings might hear it? I can only tell my story. and people will hear it according to their own ability to connect. One can't make connections for other beings. So, there's no guarantee. Just tell your story, live your story, and clarify your intention and don't believe. You can love the nature of stories or the story itself or the storytelling but just don't believe it too much.

[44:28]

The horses and donkeys sure don't

[44:32]

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