Teaching Truth

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eating and then and the meeting from a gringo sensitive carpet cannabis the rethinking about whether or not to go
what to do with over on
the controversy over the controversial subject of the first to
oh
oh
given its connotations in europe in the first half of the fruit of the twentieth century used a hitler and the nazis as a simple
a nazi isn't oh and
whether we should because it runs through oliver
you don't usually see that run through
all buddhists
associations
so on
i don't want to talk about that subject when i really want to do is just i think whether you accepted or rejected you should understand what it really means aside from have them are the nazis
you said
the have nazis use it as a powerful symbol
it was called that they called it the harkin krauss the hooked growth they didn't necessarily refer to it as the first to go
the and cross and ah
nazis america call it the hundred cross
in buddhism and car
indian buddhism especially the chinese buddhism
called it the swastika
that's just old indian man
and a symbol used by every
ah
every country every area of the world for by more than five thousand years
as you probably already know that
but i have to say out on
ah so it's a very sick it's a sacred symbol but people don't understand necessarily it's true meaning
so little in a willow
he soared swastika we don't use a very much you know and if it's promote the dead subject except when you do use the people react to it as the that resembled
there's a difference between the two and it's not just rationale
the huck and krauss
is
the hooked cross which is balanced on one point whereas the swastika is a stable square actually
the japanese
a symbol for come
a field is
year
concealed the square with alone
down then across
was got very simple but if lines are very meaningful he slides are full of potential renewed
swastika is a horizontal and vertical line and
lines of activity
and if you just enclosed lungs
it's a on
we say
this is the box
with a cold a vertical and horizontal lines
i'm a feel them persons
interesting how it has been car transfer trends a perverted drive through the mud per an eco this symbol of enlightenment used as symbol
i hate
so do we kill the simple of enlightenment because they dragged through been dragged through the mud
i leave that to you
i'm going to answer this question
at each one of access to answer it ourselves
but i have to say no matter what whether you're jumping into a million pieces you can't kill it because the truth
from the so when i received this seven
oh email from the same center abbess
now i've been studying for some time
and it's always been something on my mind
when i received a this communicating
set up all kinds of fireworks with my mind and i realized that it's it's totally
it connected to v eight levels of consciousness of us have been through which you all have been steadily with a hose on sensei
i don't want to impose my energy into it
but and
i'm suddenly both of them for some time
and i want to show you how
the ultimate meaning of the employer of the consciousness other plastic as is expressed in the swastika
and also it's related to
the tibetan real
of existence
karmic existence
so this is three wheels the wheel of the a level from consciousness is offer a wheel
buddhism is awful of circles circles within circles within circles this is how buddhism buddhism is expressed in explained
you know them
it'll have a coffee them
the wheel the tibet real
at the center is it is the access the actual
and if the whole we'll revolves around agreed ill will and delusion to chicken
ah the snake and the pig
what our life revolves around the world model with your hundred and hotter than that
even though i haven't democracy the richer or it's free from it
grade eight intuition
so on
and at the data center
it revolves around greed hate and delusion
so that circle
our life depend that way i live with depends on which circle we are oriented to
the eight levels of consciousness which i hope i think you understood begin to understand
the involves the five senses which belonged to the world of ah
activity through it there
but and closely associated with
the tibetan we are
because the senses
pick up and communicate the world around us
two six level of consciousness
ah
differentiates between the various levels of grit of seeing hearing tasty touching feeling
ah and ah so this is just the thing is erin i hear listen to ensure that we we see this and we feel this and smell nurse in the world so on that level of consciousness ordinances and categorize
xyz our sensory ah our sensory information and difficult the doorways
joe consciousness
we don't the i is not conscious even though he say i consciousness i can't just the system
it's consciousness consciousness
vi does the i is a vehicle for see that the i doesn't see that does this change or saying it's the mind sees
we all know this
and then that six consciousness
sends messages to our ah ah memory bank
cardi elia with nada mas nada
consciousness
so that process or you're young and the messenger of that information between us to levels for consciousness is called monash the evil one
are you impulse
japanese actually called evil or is just mistaken in out
molars flinches the bus because it has all this information that a treadmill and delivers back and forth
someone who is at the center of information if
very powerful
so it can be usurped
so i like to express their
man has the seventh level of consciousness is called the ego
on a false sense of
ah ha false sense of be
ah and the when the bosses out
as is it is the am
ha
the messenger
since all the bosses out and he sneaks into the boss's office says down on the buses chair put his feet up on the under the boss's desk opened the jar pulls out a cigar havana a special

now i'm the boss
but the problem is he believes it
that's the problem we have
our out our manners
aram
ha ego consciousness thinks that where the bus and we relate to the a liar
ah si ben of everything that's ever happened to us memory
i believe he believes attaches himself
the false is colorfast consciousness really
and when he give that up is called when he let me realize that booed as the boss
he let's go put it
puts himself about them to buddhists
ha a buddhist feet and weighs himself down there and do what you might with this corpse
that's very say you have to die in order to live when it means if you have to die to your ego in order to find true life
so
that's circled because
ah us is the center of the circle at this point until he gives up until she gives them
let's go
the stop the suffering
it can't stop in a separate
and then
and the other levels of consciousness art our circles a file and that so what replaces
ah mad dash as the boss

ah
it's called to revolution on the base
a rookie
everything turns and
so
ah
the ya does
become the for wisdoms
no longer call
of his nana is called wisdom for levels of wisdom
so the poor levels of with them are the elia becomes senate ah
i consciousness becomes
the great round mirror with them
has myself this emptiness
and it becomes the basis
the true basis so
hmm
i won't make a dry

there that's to create round mirror wisdom and as he can see it has yourself
just got done himself which is the true self
and then man us which if the eagles and eco centricity
becomes the wisdom of equality
everything's the same

here no different to me i'm ruined everything new
i'm no different than anything else
i am
this
so
ah everything's equal suzuki roshi remember saying when everybody wears the same black robe we all like how and we all look different because we all because we are all of the same we all have different
we're in the same and
different

vertical horizontal
an articled i want to make that much

so
vertical beans differentiation hierarchy people to like to wear higher kids because he has connotations of on higher or lower
the near the bottom that's not the true meaning of hierarchy to remaining you hired i can use everything is in a different position in a different place and unique
each one is unique each one of us is unique
and so this is
you can call is vertigo value
compared to value
ah
this equality means virtue
for cho
means each one is and copper and comparable you can't get bear one to another he can't compare the mouse to the elephant each one is totally equal they're totally hot at the same time they're totally different
that's wisdom there was them a totally equal and the wisdom of totally different
based on emptiness or wisdom
this is the three major wisdoms
right and the fourth major wisdom is and

see
this

death the swastika which expresses enlightenment and you cannot refute it
it can't be refuted
you can try and i can make up all kinds of things but it's natural symbol nobody made it up
it just falls into place doesn't belong to anybody or anything
no buddhist islam and manufacture jewish synagogue actually in the whole day sometimes back in the many minutes millennia
at the summer the super on the floor
so it doesn't really belong behind anybody it's just the way things is art
the way it is
if you want enlightenment this is the basis for enlightenment
zero
and then all of their
this this spokes here are the activity to this spoke at the activity carpets
a pre
ah
ah
the light activity
so if they are he spoke to activate
grasp
and let's call
i'm enlightened activity
an essential world
based on the three wisdoms and it's the fourth wisdom is actor acting
in a wise way
ah wisdom here
i'm
ah
the pragya
do with them the universe
cosmic wisdom if it were out cause big things you know where does the sky and
but the sky and the bottom my feet but we always looking up there for the sky on the sky and the skies way up there no i mean yes
it's also the bottom of our fleet
we jumped at the well here's where this guy is
when dog and came back from china
he'd been in china for five years said like that for if i do
and i'm indicate that crucial when it didn't bring back with you he said
i know is that my eyes are on top
vertical
horizontal and vertical
and my life is based on this the circle of wisdom because
the hole in the universe or that the hole in the curtain that box my view of the universe
this is the whole the whole in our in our i'm a curtain
through which we can do the universe in it's true sense with that's called is called and pass
the patch
doesn't usually the most important symbol in buddhism are just as important as anything else spit
and it was this is the most magnificent least is the great symbol ted is more than a symbol because of be embody it click the horizontal and if i understand out to be vertical
and my seat is your i hear the city on and when i get up it homepages spokes
ah will carried me in the right way
so i'm doing
good his work
the sinner hitters work work

ah is a book by japanese author ernest to other mr nagar car key
the buddhist
first liquor just this is a hike and crafts you can see that there's quite a different it's just that an american way of tilted
alicia symbols that we use
ah in buddhism and in exam
the first interfaces to whereas notice my way to this first liquor is the first acre of coming down the mountain
there's a swastika tracing where the spokes efficiently alway been climbing up the mountain
climbing up the mountain to get it and reading
i'm a merry go round
we live in america merry-go-round of another
the ring i mean it's another circle and were unable to agree on the merry-go-round to old little girl our horses to your apps from different and you pick your animal
some people sit in the seeds they come in and it is she nuts at an animal
what merely that's just me and from the merry-go-round goes around up and new beach our when you get to certain point to get to golden ring but it turns out to be a brass ring
very solemnly get a call a dream
i remember
somebody once said and some
let's stop the south america and let me off
we have that was very friendly but now i've seen that's a penny
good ah
hopefully you get the golden ring
on the merry-go-round
very happy
anyway
this picture sport fishing the way is going up the mountain getting the golden ring
and come down the mountain and this is the symbol for coming down to hutton
ah
i'm coming down the mountain and with your bag of goodies
and spreading around to everybody
hum
a
with bush bestowing hands as decision that circular
i'm simple of hotel
i'm was coming back coming down back down the mountain with his bag of stuff
i'm good if
the fact that the goodies
figure she's used to talk about the goodies and don't make your own cookies thomas
so on
for this one
i'm
and costs that's hitler's
version of this
so
i just want to give you the information show up when you think about it and here you think about whether we should continue this or not
you had at least you hopefully understand the meeting
dominion is enlightened activity
i mean if it's totally logical is the most logical thing i can think of

what
i'm so
i look lift my leg
i'm open to questions if you have if you feel
i'm like one ask a question last the time
thank you so to russia
just have a few comments about qa if you cared to ways you can ask a question you can either raise your hand by going to participants the bottom of your screen and raising your virtual hand and and i'll keep track of it where you can also enter a
question and the chat box and all that it to sojourn so if you do have a question please on beat yourself before you ask a lower your hand and we'd like to hear from as many voices as possible so please limit yourself to one follow up question
thank you

no not your muted
cumulative my autumn hassan as a question yes thank you
i don't want to get into the yeah the discourse around the swastika but something that you said early on about manners which we which is actually to plug my class for next week that's the subject of land next week class monday's but you cited a photograph you cited in
image of a a young man with his feet up on the guests cleaning back and smoking a cigar
and by chance i was that a famous photograph of a guy named david shapiro was our at columbia and it was taken in the president of colombia's office shortly after we had occupied it and i was literally standing right next to the photographer when it was taken which
oh is all interesting but not exactly relevant what's relevant in terms of what you are saying is that photograph you were talking about manners as defiled consciousness right in that photograph ruined that person's life
he was one and the most brilliant poets and literature students and teachers that had come along in years and because of that photograph he never he couldn't he never got a good job
the poets get good job i think he was not just a poet he was a scholar and he had won scholarships and you know he should have been a professor of literature at a at a prominent university instead he had us through contract jobs at
at local colleges for the rest of his life and he notes that one photograph that action of manas if you will ah under cut
his life the activity of his life
he should have built it should have become a zen soon
maybe so
anyway that's all i had today
thank you
looks like joe has a question
i said you know sheet until i'm i i just have to thoughts and maybe you can now have some response to them are one is that in the west or the
off kilter swastika has such a powerful connotation and in the west the
the vertical swastika the stable on has for thousands of years has a very powerful connotation so i think it's kind of different for us and what really you have the vertical and horizontal line the circle that's not a problem and i had the idea that some
i'm visual artist might be able to formulate lines or images or the activity one there is that's the force books oh right well but different ones on than the traditional ones so that there's not that association
oh i see yes well
all circles or that
basically
well the frogs of the second
you know
let's keep this to the the basic thing as simple as possible yeah so we don't lose the true meaning
the true meaning gets lost and complexity
that of courses through
i'll just put out my other idea maybe you have a reaction to that which is that the leonardo image of the man in the circle is this image of the arms outstretched the trunk putting down and the legs at an angle and who is
well there it is
leonardo swastika
i think that i don't know there's some big shot vitruvian man or something like so it's like squaring the circle yes this wave pickle live was a famous on paradox or something that people that is impossible know isn't it
it's only a paradox if you don't understand it
well that's true
less sure we're not
the better if it's not a paradox is not truth old astra i've found that
about the paradox is out there know everybody likes like that there and will thank you those were my you thought isn't a simple truth is
now
it looks like got peter has a question and just a reminder to that group feel free to submit questions and the chatbox if you prefer thank you
you're a snack you promoted
it's wonderful to see you were not this morning unfortunate enough to the new i'm seeing the the moderator been on loan the a miracle on your wonderful to it's wonderful having when my living room also
very different kind of a three actually
mcgriff know i appreciate your time i really appreciate you tackling the topic and what had left me with was the real question based on your explanation of the symbol is what is enlightened action with moment in time where we live in the
this culture right now and to me listen to me know the answer to that question is for the buddhist learned to stop using that symbol
we know what it means know what it means it's just assemble don't have to be attached to it and smuggle now in this moment in time there's a lot of other people feel excluded because of its national association much may not change for a long passages if
if i think from a place of compassion what would be the compassionate thing to do you live seems like it would be so the accept that for whatever reason why now in this moment in time which is where buddhism lives this symbol hurts people yes we don't need it we can come up with some other
zimbabwe we can find some other way to express our kitchen there are many ways to best our that's through this is one way
the rowboat is more than just a assemble
it's the heart of what we are
so i agree though with you we should not be attached to it
i agree that that's not be to it that's why i'm not saying anything about it i'm just saying this is when it mean for me this what it means
we did get a lot of what it means this from a literature but not much in such as oh it's it's well-being that's what the that's what the commentators say oh it means well being means happiness you know so well yes of course but it doesn't go into what the
the the woods or true meaning of those of the vertical and horizontal and the circular wisdoms our room
and and how did and how it relates to everything in buddhism
and the polish and have other symbols that to pay exactly the same thing yeah all buddhism does but mountain
visual and symbolically with her other symbols the also convey yes the
you know what the problem is taking a what's wrong with things mostly buddhism
combines with with the problems are but doesn't always it's not always easy to get what the solution is
although the eightfold path is called a solution right
and so you know that's why people use the eightfold path and so forth but you know because of the connotations of the
ah the nazi is also you know all over the world why should the people all over the rest of the world be able to use it without feeling guilty
they don't when i wasn't that i was in bhutan so any
the monastery big monastery there
all the decode dependent though how with paintings fred l the murals on the walls and all the trim was
plastic as connected as as as decoration
and that they didn't know what was going on i'm actually in europe believe it or not there was in a plane for flight left at airplanes are funny of the himalayas but they really have any idea what's going on
an old war
it's hard to believe but it's what you know communication up there there were no communication up there
so you know it depends on what your relationship to it is
health and and by jail but it's okay you can not you know get rid of it i don't care except that you can't get rid of the truth
they should a final it's common mental challenges to separate the symbol from you choose in this moment what's the truth in this moment battle is pastor yes that's right and when you express the truth is that in this moment it's only
the simple has always there
and oliver enlightened action
that that symbol is is prominent you know never to bring it up right away you know drop it of the airplane into the ocean or thank you so much for raising the question thank you for visiting early this morning and i liked you better when you look like santa claus
loco
student a subject we have a nine people with their
and only about five more minutes so because each one gets a half a minute or if you want to we could we are you can reconvene at eleven thirty to pick up on people who didn't have a chance i'll i'll leave that up to you
extent yeah we can extended i don't mind that i know here i am sitting in my latest position
i can actually fit in followed us again to hollywood learn
but you couldn't take a break and reconvene electrical or no i don't want to take breaks know it says the either continue or widowed and and people can have a personal docusign with me if they like
not now but you know gimme a call
okay so on maybe i should make my announcements now than we could just keep going to the questions that if that that we do in san francisco the okay oh and i shall shallow wanted to know what book that was you are holding up if you can hold it up again for you will shed
it's called the buddhist swastika and hitler's
kraus cause
okay and you can't miss it
okay okay package terroir a few announcements before we could go back in our questions so busy still fuzzy see is still offering morning zazen and even zazen during the week
at seven thirty am five thirty
and i'm sorry five forty and evening
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oh thank you for coming everyone and you're welcome to stick around to hear the ongoing dialogue
oxygen would you like to do the for aus know all we and yeah aren't going to wait till after your after the qaa this way to learn with the juvenile okay thank you so it looks like our next a person with a question is lois if you're still here as
us please i mean yourself

oh i hello thank you hi surgeon happy birthday happy birthday
i was very the beginning of your talk i said well i wouldn't vote for keeping the swastika at the end of the talk i thought if i can't handle that swastika with the truth than ah i haven't moved anywhere so i felt very are helped by the
talk i think it's still a jerk channel a challenge for me but it feels like everything ah the illusions and the attachment and the fear that gets connected to that symbol for me personally has to go ah and i don't mind being dropped in
into the ocean either but i don't care i just want to be able to watch it and look at it and be able to separate from it because it just feels like more illusion and more fright so thank you very much ha i just want
on not care about that ah so i appreciate your wisdom until i appreciate your through thank you

yeah me too
i think you here
but it
tom your muted
okay

tommy riordan
okay have had can harry yeah yeah yeah but your next yeah i a question
through a piggyback on what peter was talking about i think we also need to acknowledge that the sibyl is being used today especially in this country
in a hateful way not only by our citizens grasso by our president who called nazis using these symbols as good and fine people and so to have as they have a discussion about it were
without because we live where american buddhists we live in america that is still i think
with this question is still happening and a still hateful and so i don't know i just i feel weird you know even talking about it just because we're under an existential threats right now that i was surprised that the abbess of
with that sorta would bring it up considering all the existential threats that were under now and
i would drop it into the ocean and i'm maybe in another generation
haven't you know
to think about it but it's ah
it's been so covered with evil that it's a on difficult to even consider consider it yes well i think we have to give it a rest
i know it is like someone kidnapped your child who is the apple of your eye and kept your child for twelve years fifteen years twenty years
and your child grows up with the kidnappers
and then when you face your child from you for the kidnappers
i would you kill your child or would you under redeem your child
that's the choice we are i think so i don't want disgusted as i said i just want to show us what the media's that's all for you understand the meaning that the convocations
thank you
he looks like bad news the next person
i'm certain roshi thank you for your talk
i had a question more on on the symbolism that you're sharing with us and the to the two versions
ross yes of well the two versions of the buddhist the read one climbing the mountain in the one descending the mountain yes is there a reason why the end point one way for climbing the mountain and for descending maybe there is no reason i was curious if there is any among you that image
in
ah if there were only ones if was only appointed one way
oh that's a brutal the cat through a people say is the opposite of the thrust of the nazis nazi hearted grass
ah but i think that
hundred the i don't know why points
no one points one way or the other points the other way that's all is it could be the opposite i suppose
this if you have to make some decision which things going to point an idea to because they balance each other no and amount of course development don't it yes thank you so to okay
can excite com ross now has next question

thank you for do
thank you very much for an edifying talk in helping us understand the true meaning of the swastika while the huck and cross
are you gonna hug and the hockey club and the hiking cross thank you are in my hometown of virginia they finally we moved the slave block
in every in mississippi they finally took down the midst of state flag with the confederate symbol in it
symbols represent a time in our a history that is was aborted and now his past us physically the memory remains and that's our practice is to try dream is to try to be open and amend my only feeling
about the the
ah the swastika is that it's not displayed so prominently in our practice you have the only time i've seen it is actually on the little bag that the dharma transmission that is i used to hold the documents it was a very private thing as
and is bestowed to the people receiving transmission who have an understanding of that where you can have an understanding yes yeah so it is since it's kinda like our little secret if young girl is a private thing and we all have our secrets and i fish
eight you're a younger talk and exposing our vulnerabilities in our secrets and the things that we hold dear and maybe a little reticent to let go us but it's a very different thing than a that slave block and of and the mississippi flag you know a little miller
i think it was a mistake to remove them the the slave block terrible mistake
it looks like there was never any and maybe you pass that place and pretty soon people you know
it's like the black hole of calcutta kolkata a human is there oh wait we wanted them to take us to the black hole of calcutta no no mere whether it is just the intersection you know this is where the bike hole i think was
you know ah
well i think that the the slave bugs really represents something and people should see that and not ignore it i think it's that's the greatest lesson the more lesson that the statues i i really where we actually sold slaves i agree with you i
aw when i was in a home last there were some african american tourists and little boy of the family stood up on the block and the father took the picture
it was kinda like things have turned upside down anyway the block is not stored in some warehouse is going to be in a museum with a description for people to see and there's a you know debate whether in a public place or a museum the virtue of either
we don't want to belabor the subject again thank you for for presenting as your bra
i was thinking about all the statues that were and whether all of them should be removed and all and i think it's a reaction
and has two sides yes no and it just depends on which i think you know we always looked at robert e lee as a gentleman
hey everybody has two sides so that he was the he was leader of them a rebel a civil word so but it's not that the that's what he wanted to do he felt an obligation to do them and he could not not do that and
well i me that represents that statue represents is
an honorable person who was an enemy and how we you know in time we make amends with our enemies
and if we if we eliminate the memory of our enemies you know they felt and certain righteousness as well as we felt a certain righteous even though he said they're were right and so forth
ah we were we can honorable
enemy
you know the japanese
warriors in the second world war and the american waters the second where we get together
all is there are and ah somehow the reconcile you can't reconcile if you eliminate the other side
civil war has to have some reconciliation that hadn't happened yet
still the the south is still there i mean if losing a simple and sober that you know that's good and the other hand
we need something that allows us to reconcile
and if we if we cut off all the of the terrible things
you know it's okay if we have no memory maybe that's okay and we just start from zero zero
there's nothing to work with if the memories or or has nothing to workers is that threat is like is it didn't happen them
yeah
like a divorce if you'd never see the person did you are separated from is hard to reconcile so how do we keep it the he could present thank you so yes there has to be at the civil war is not reconciled yet at all
anyway that's another conversation then i'm wanna get into bed
i apologize i didn't think of that bully me i didn't think of that and i do think of it
no
susan sontag we have a question from germany on dram please some if you could meet yourself please do so
a good morning morning oh hi u e l
the hacking course of course as been
you know the symbol is some
the stained forever and has left a deep imprint even on generations like mine who were obviously not participating in that war
however in you know looking at it from the point of our practice which seems to be always on the general balance between seeing everything as a symbol and then oh tending towards hopefully wines action out of seen the
the symbols you know you could also see is a horrifying symbol as what karma can do because the swastika alone in it's a beautiful and on oh so clear and so condensed every
thing however as we are able to spoil any anything you know like on the book cover i think it's good ill and probably even though in all my show german latest history has been dominated by our
what are our force and we had just had to cope with okay what happened there and how are we going to live after so it's good if the karma is right there yeah that's that's all and him oh thank you goes to great to see
hopefully this know i think you know the later generations
ah will make amends to each other through crown for the whatever
ah
ah how we learn you folks
thank you he looks like susan as next much of that some kickass who's had our another season but please saw on meat yourself and ask your question
can you hear me
a sergeant taking them for your talk
you know when i came to practice at berkeley said center you used to go around with the stick
and you trained some of your senior most students to go around with the stick and you use the stick a lot moved quickly
and ah then we went and for a long time and my impression is that it had been used historically for a long time loyal and then we went through a period of transition i would say where there is a lot of discussion about the
use of the stick this and there were people who the sound of the stick in my understanding ah it triggered trauma
or on memories of abuse in their homes or hitting in their homes i'm paraphrasing what i remember we had a lot of meetings where people voiced concern about the use of the stick and and even though it was always by invitation
you never hit anybody who didn't ask for the stick
those sounds were somehow a difficult for people some people
and so we dropped the use of the stick actually we listened to those people the people who were traumatized
and i remember it your whole talk reminds me of that time period
and i remember that i thought it was a great mistake and a but i don't feel that way anymore i feel we listened to the people who were traumatized and we
we have given the stick arrest
you know we did compromise
reserve that i could carry the thick greece a shoe or if i felt like at some point but you know
we just gonna agenda is really wrestling
well hello news
in up enough for a long time and i still i still feel about myself that i will that i'm grateful
that i received the kind of training i did at that time this that included the stick but now you know who says what a memory i have this memory of it but that's all it is as a memory and i probably glorify the memory in some way
but i don't feel for a long time i felt it was a mistake and i even would say to you why don't you use the stick or why don't you put it away so it's not visible anymore
he would just laugh at me
and now i don't care anymore
and i think that's a good place to man this
ah
yeah that's a good place to be in as a you can hear rid of i can area credit
ah
you know at the time we were more oriented toward japanese styled
right and i suzuki roshi using the cigar tiny it loved it get up put is it me wake me up
ah but let's stick with oh it's it's was always got suffused with love
the earth administer the sacred love it was everybody loved it
if it communicated actually his love worth
this confirmed and and wanted to wake us up
oh and so we continue that prolonged time and they'll finally you know
there was no l backing for it but oh
we did learn something from that you know all the stuff that we can have dropped from the japanese attitudes
we're very valuable number one way or another
well i remember at the top can you hear me younger i remember at the time wanting to say that to people who experienced that trauma from hearing it but that's not its meaning that's not what it means but you know to me
the now
i feel it's important to just listen to those people yes and to me it relates to what we're going through in the social justice movement today it especially as white people we can't say to people of color but we didn't mean this or this doesn't need to listen to people we need to listen to the
trauma and to be guided by the pain that people feel no
so thank you for this is a really thought provoking top and thank you so much and thank you for your with them
hey looks like come hecho john lake is next
thank you so jersey for a i thought provoking talk and that interesting discussion i have a question about that how do we let go of old symbols and make changes so that we can move forward and when we talk about the horizontal we have
the vertical we have men and women we have he and she we have him in her we have a father and mother and even those words are troublesome to people today who identify as neither he nor she and so forth
not that we had resolved how to call people here now but what is the switch or how do we find in ourselves that ability to let go of assemble
and retain the meaning but also enlarged the meaning and way the he she question is being addressed today lighting enlarging the meaning is is it not help substituting one thing for another
those symbols are on
ah
the swastika
you can rearrange and then what you want but the truth is is a truth and that can be that you can't stamp it out and cut into a million pieces
but
the rises up as one so you can kill the truth
but you can include
ah i
you know i always talk about when we come to zazen there's no women or men
they're just as just people less horizontal tours out and includes there are no men or women to know right and wrong is no could embed is just things as it is
so they is included in a horizontal and they is also included in vertical he just include things that that are there
in the mirror includes everything
that's the basis the whole basis will whatever comes the mercies are clearly without bias there's no bias in the truth
so surgeon roshi when we're discomforted by these kind of symbols how do we approach our discomfort so that we can enlarge
fire mind or are thinking and
yeah larger mind first then there's no discomfort
if you soldiers new ago
hey looks like jeff taylor is next
so jim thank you so much for a wonderful talk i had forgotten that the circle in the middle was the round mirror and represented that
i remembered the vertical and horizontal but the combination of the two calls the ineffable for me which is sort of word where i like things my question is changed ten times as i've listened to everybody talk
and i think that's the nice news and the thing i was going to share was at my own experience of this is that as a child of the war was very close in our family we had family friends who had survived the camps on my father fought in world war two when and so the swastika i'm held all of that that the conflict the pan
and and the death and an all of the things that we typically associate with the first time i saw the down the downhill i'm spokes was i think in relation to a navajo symbol and a difference was so stark for me immediately
one simple didn't call the other for me and so it led to an inquiry and been here we sit today and my history is becoming a mystery to me as the years advance
the thing that's interesting to me as i've listened to people speak and i particularly like the analogy of of the slave auction block is is the idea of context and story
that in the auction blocks case what sat there in the town square basically said negroes were sold here
that's not the story of that's not the proper context
and so in letting that survive great harm was being committed than people who had been deeply traumatised and families who continue to be traumatized were not honor and were in fact deeply ignored in the furtherance of something that told a different story that was not true
in thinking about how are reclaim these symbols my next question is why are some important wants to reclaim you speak eloquently about the truth sojourn and i'm quite captured by by the way you speak about it i'm also captured by the idea of how do we listen to victims and where
we're how do we act out our compassionate and supporting those who have been heart
and the truth for everybody lies somewhere in in in the midst of of that and it's not my job to
sway people one way or the other i have my own truth in this some an island on both sides of this question and like so much in exam how do i understand that non-duality of of those two poles how do i understand that both that neither and both and
both together is is somewhere guiding me to something that's different and and i don't think i've said any of that well but it's it's it's instructive to get to listen on want to thank you all for the education of received today thank you
thank you i appreciate your eloquence and
ha
the connotations and one thing i simply wanted to explain the meaning the true really
so that we will have something if when there's ever a controversy you would know we're talking about
thank you something
i'm
that looks like we have time for one more question from damn self
good morning thank you sir john look up
i'm glad to know more about the the buddhist meaning of the of the original symbol so i thank you for that part of the enough for the top
i know that if the subject is not a whether we use at how we use at that's what i wanna come along anyway know being from the south and from huntsville where there's thing daily fight on the courthouse steps or read confederate memorial there and
where the police have used tear gas and rubber bullets and heard a lot of people on over there peacefully lecturing about the history and rallying peacefully it's a super hot topic for me and i think that the was like the i'm gonna call it is
was to camp because as and common parlance that's what people refer to it as
it also the news
these are things that i think more than symbolizing
an ideological perspective their droughts and they're super real threats right now against african americans against trans people and i feel like i i have to keep standing up to say that
those symbols or not it's not ok to use those samples in any context because customer amount derma as real threats of violence trapping a man against a tree and threatening and when the news last week camp and
he had said there's a resurgence that we have to step in front of like in front of a bulldozer notes about the cow forest
wow
i recognize of guy my own ego centricity and history and small mind also a monkeying around with these questions on but i also want to be able to use my did mine to offer
i'm like a not as sutra that kind of for spots when the thousand eyes yeah
thank you yes but i wanna thank everybody for their good questions in a realist brings up an awful and stuff so but as can bring it up
you know we don't talk about it it's under the cover is a kind of baby i don't know if it's an elephant in the middle of the room but it's will be a kangaroo or something
so but i simply web do
you know
my understanding and don't want my understanding to be biased
by emotional
a resurgence
i understand very well the problem
that this symbol brings up but i'd got but for me
the
protect
ah projected from
more defilement
i don't want to be any more defiled
and i will protect that
and ah ah
ah not let it get lost in the subterfuge of
hum
something has been stolen
and misused
so
and i understand everybody's emotion and myself my own emotion of course
so
ah it's okay to throw it away i don't care because you can't get rid of it
nowhere
chapter a million pieces and it you know
it's just like well anyway that's enough