Precepts Class 2

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BZ-02544
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PP Class

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okay
no this is class number two
and
i just one make a million reduction
arms
the vinaya the the rules of conduct in buddhist or where and and cause much later than over twenty one hundred years is mostly for monks
living together in a harmonious saga
which of course but did pay attention
to the people
and a part of the
and
one reason for the strict rules
over there are many reasons but one one reason for the strict rules of conduct was a big a the monks of course where on
supported by lay people
the only way the monks could live was picked by through their support by the way people so they had to be very careful about
the that and otherwise if people didn't feel that and that among for behaving in a way that
they felt it should they wouldn't support them
am
so there's always been this symbiotic relationship between the monks and lay people throughout buddhist history
ah our situation and americans rather unique and i think one reason for a steadying precepts the history of precepts
it is because a in a way where neither fish nor fowl or both
so ah
ingrid in the beginning of figuring out what this
what this animal really is and ah
so
as test we go along the frontier of an american a dharma ah
don't we have to
by necessity
create a benign that work for us without
a dominating our practice
so in the olden in in a bugs are both buyer and indiana
the you know they lived by the rules basically and there were consequences
when they didn't follow the rules
and of course the rule as weeks i said last time the rules have evolved
ah into an
fewer and fewer rules
so what does that mean
yeah
the rules are
or not or not
ah

the rules are the structure of practice but they're not out in practice
there are guidelines for know
how we maintain
in some order
and maintain our
our our posture so to speak
so given that
last time the aita i mentioned the to tongass the twelve a aesthetic practices that buddha allowed
that somebody so what what are they at well i mean i do know that i i can tell you because it's researching we entered that i just had a question i would be just said on which is how could how do you envision how do you understand of the nya that would dominate the crash
well because
i'm
be rule bound
yes
so when we get into comparing which we haven't really done yet i will see
what that means
so the hero the do tongass the special practices that buddha allowed that we're kind of aesthetic aesthetic practices
there are thirteen actually
i'm and but said he allowed certain monks to a practices to tankers
here it says well see
to tonga in the poly means renunciation and known in as the tom
ah is a group of thirteen austerities for ascetic practices most commonly observed by the practitioners the thai forest tradition in this day of terrified of buddhism while the boot did not require these practices they were recommended for those wanting to practice greater and so the aestheticism
so i'm all forest monks will observe at least one of the to target austerities the do target austerities are meant to deepen the practice of meditation and assisted living the holy life their aim is to help the practitioner to develop detachment or not attachment with material things
including the bodies
so
one
refuse rag wearers practice this is very ancient in other words
monk for to go to the ricardo ground or someplace in the dub basically pick out there materials sewn together and and wash them and guys than one color
and die
way to a t and se was southeast asian marxism often where
saffron colored robes broke some yellow
but the different colors are black brown and so forth combat basically the color that's accepted by everybody is a gunmetal blue
color it's not you can't say it it's bluish greenish
greyish
color or black is
somehow easier to make everything microbe black
so they they become black but that basically bluish greenish grayish no special color
so the reg were refuse rag wearers practice wearing roads made up from discarded or soil the cloth and not accepting and wearing ready made robes offered by householders
the another often the householders would just make roads and then it a certain time of year they would
give the road to for the monastics in the monastery
so number two triple robe where's practice happening and wearing only three robes and not having additional allow the roads
i'm food eaters practice
eating only food collected on pin dupatta or the arms around while not accepting food in the horror are offered by invitation into lay person's house so at just before noon the monks would go on are begging rounds
read that means
and am
often lay people would feed the monks are periodically
i kind of banquet
i'm
aren't everything will write too much to their home and feed they may a banquet
vegetarian banquet and so they wouldn't attend the banquet
they just eat one meal a day at noon that's it
and then house to house seekers practice not omitting any house we're going for arms and other was not picking your choosing here's the next house
goes
not admitting any house we're going for armed arms and not choose and not choosing only the go to rich house for undergrad
are those selected for some other reason come as relations in a like your family house in some like that
there was a joke right i couldn't remember it
i'm
this guy was kind of recluse things out and used to just go from house to house begging for food and then he hadn't got a girlfriend
and she said oh i remind you that you know we're gonna be together
in my route he said well let's do it just once
okay
okay so they went begging
and then at the end he said well that's it and she would just the next house
just one more house please
you know get
i thought it would really running
so number five is one one session
one fresheners practice
i'm eating one meal a day and refusing other food offered before the midday
those gone forth may not unless ill partake of food for midnight midday until dawn the next day and then there's the the bowl food eaters practice meeting food from his bowl in which it is linked together resident from plates and dishes and other
which you have one bowl and or he goes it it it doesn't mean they have to stir it up into mush matter of fact that's called delusion
the the delusion type mix dollar for together
you know in in the denial
there are quite a number of rules about how you eat
and in india you eat with your fingers and you the rice and make rice balls and new and stuff and you know and it tells you how not to do that how you what what is not permitted when you do that i can reduce a minute
so
as the number seven later food refusers practice not taking any more food than one has shown that when a satisfied even though
a benefactor would am
you to eat more come on for it it in a jewish mother
so ah
number eight forest dwellers practice not dwelling in a town or village but living secluded away from all kinds of distractions at nine tree root dwellers practice living under a tree without shelter or a roof
open air dwellers practice refusing a roof and a tree root the practice may be undertaken sheltered by a tent of robes that's interesting a tent approach if you only have three robes
i'm to them
and then there's a kernel ground dwellers practice living in a near in or nearby a cardinal field graveyard or cremation ground in ancient india there would have been abandoned and unburied corpses as well as some partially cremated corpses in such places one of the austerities
worth for monks to
ah
ah
live in a colonel ground for a while and am and watched the contemplate the
ah the them
ah
progression of deterioration
but this one of turning blue know that you know and can fit to really go through and identify all the up the minute
centrica section
but what's that like get quicker the way but
the additional eurasian steppes of deterioration
so then there's the any bed users practice any bad is okay being satisfied with any dwelling allotted as a sleeping place
and then there's the sitter's practice living in the three postures walking standing and sitting and depth laying down
so they would often ah this this is a or a special branch especially in china
and master wines to do this year practitioner she did this and city of ten thousand buddhas
they have a box look like a steam box or something new and the little didn't be able to sit down
and i think you've covered your body
he sat down but you never laid down
this is supposed to be the practice of and the fifth ancestor time by conan
on
so those are the two tongass
thirteen practices
now the other thing that will you going to look at you know i can only do a little bit of each
the be cooney practice because he is the lady
i'm
but with love with that what we call nuns but of as right word
the lady bugs
ah
it's a pretty big but and i can read all
i'm just good is pretty much the same is the the man's practice because practice
but i'm going to just
go to the end with the
come minor precepts
so i'm
an editor don't even know if really interesting
i let me get this page before the the one with that robes is not interesting
the darkness chapter
should any bhikkhu knee stand or converse with a man one on one in the darkness of the night without a light it is to be confessed
the converse with a bad one on one in the concealed place it should be confessed
should only be camp should any be cooney along a road in a cul-de-sac or crosswords roads stand or converse with a man one on one or whisper in his ear or dismissed the pecuniary who is her companion is to be contrast this is just the same as for the men
and it's even worse for the men that works but more street
you know back in
ah
some of the rule here are four how you act how bakunin act toward each other
what they're with their attitudes and disputes or with each other
and the hierarchical differences and ah or the jealousies and you know whatever comes up with people living in close quarters it's always a problem
yeah exactly of time the rules prior to prior to the japanese must be able to get married it sounds like there was sort of officer sun moon you think it is helpful for the practice or out of their arrive
rise and set of rules
well yes been
the the biggest difference between monks and lay people in celibacy
so
the much where the the whole idea was to unburden yourself to not create relationships that great attachment
because you're you're going for nirvana you're not going for happy isles
in the world right you don't want to produce children know you're going the other way you're going out of
no rebirth
so do you want to produce more but
so that was kind of a goal so he's been
and in the meiji period in japan
but the ten of our civil war
the emperor because the month celibate monks you know create a as a society their own a gig power
so on
sometimes the always been times where the most and competed with the emperor and for power also competed with the emperor for power and the in china there are these big purchase a buddhism and as a module
i went to the mountains with the p m
zen monks
i'm benefited the most because if they weren't burdened with the same stuff
the m
the other schools were burdened with
so they could they were free and they can just go to mountains and that's where they established their from
the practice places
should they called them out monks
did
in every every
zen temple has a about name even though the mountains
i'm so
ah the the dow is a confusion as were competing always with buddhists
and they whispered and an appraiser and get the emperor's fever than the epperly and a perch and they turn everybody out of the monastery reason you know buddhism and hard time recovering from of these purges
so ah
yeah
where was i japanese yet a so there was a kind of purge in the meiji period and the monks were allowed to marry and and the or were encouraged to leave the monasteries and that created the temple system which exists today
day
which we have inherited
we've actually inherited the temple system that is the result of ah the major the that much been turned out and established managed to the whole other lay people had register with the temples as dunga dunga or the supporters
of the temples
that has the temple system it exists in
japan with dunker with an hour
in america we don't have docker where the darker the practitioners in the dog
we support our own table now san francisco zen center is not supported by the danica in a way it is because it tassajara and and green gulch and you know
the the collect money through their work
people that's we have the pm one reason why we have a guest season tassajara
tomato the guests support the practice by and the enter and the bugs do help or the monks and to care the guests as the practice and the guests pay for it
so it's not exactly to vinaya but it works for us
because one of the rules of vinaya is that a monk should not
ah
ah preach the dharma for money
so it's not exactly are preaching to divert money or pushing the dharma for people for people and they're contributing to the support of the temple
they're here it's just us folks right
so that's that's an unusual situation
that's whatever
kings that we have some
ah
what else was your question
office that the start as he is is useful for practice you're trying to explain it the lack of attachment that long
yes now and i just want to point out here and i mean taking accurate control so if you charles to get married and ask that you are you are going to be whether you are now or you're gonna be caught up in incredibly tight still show your strength
in social situation well you couldn't do it if you did that you wouldn't be practicing and in a monastery
so to see it away with a way less than just the attachment of in love with somebody you're having sex or something hey you you got stepped out of a very restricted social or yes really control your life very communal very social not like me out
we shouldn't i just think if he doesn't love a bad our situation onto a delay they had a really need number of control and i have very social situation better
to me
to meet his or her was a way step out of that and yeah kinda like your without doesn't have to have the time meditating yeah
yeah you know
yeah for true
yes that cup being unburdened he said you know he carries the burden of your disasters
yet this is you choose
whatever whichever
it is easy
no yes it's very different redirect birth control that makes a difference
but whether that's a reason or no
you can eat me compared to that
because he produced children you know but we produce children even though he have birth control
so
ah
no
suzuki roshi
when he when he can keep and he didn't tell us what the rules were
he just observed us how we are
and the an open the you know that the the the dharma for us
ah and
the very seldom ever made any judgments so he wanted to see what our tendencies were
and now we really were how receptive we were to the dharma and
let it get it and a horror which were men and women are branch from together with a monastery which is unheard of together
we're to read them but it
you complicated thief
the up
congregation at psychology the japanese were very critical the fed only have sex together they are get on and and suzuki roshi with you know he caught in the middle and
am
ah if you're gonna be a tough sahara as a couple he should take each other's name
cause if you were married even though you're not married is if you are married
act like you're married
yeah so ah so if you wanna give the appearance of propriety
and then and we still have this you know rule it does a heart
and then recreated these rules with our on vinaya a little bit which is not very strict
think about the six month rule you should not if you're a practitioner you should not approach somebody for sex
if if they haven't been here for six months this agent as soon as you may interfere with somebody else's practice who had who is who you know even if you here one day before somebody they think that you know something
they think oh god
so so you leave somebody alone
for six months which is not very long
then reason for a year you know but actually it unless replace person you can't really monitor that
and so it causes problems
so you know well established practitioners can know what you're getting into they know each other
and the least i think they know what to getting into but you cannot stop that because we have a coed practice so the coed practice has hass
oh difficulties
and we accept those difficulties the other side is okay you don't want those difficulties be celibate
and then when you sell a bit you have the difficulties of being celibate
so you just treat it's a trade-off which they do you wanna be on that's my approach which side you wanna be on and celebrate side or the entanglement side and neither one will give you a problem unless you are a section off

so you know it
celibacy works for lot of people a number of people but the great practitioners who can't be on it
cursed not in their nature to be filleted and then they are struggling all the time without being able to you don't handle that
so
and it's a it's a dilemma but our practice does not we don't have the if anybody wants to be celebrated it's okay with us with me but it's not
our practice but promiscuity is also not our practice so promiscuity is one of the problems right so if you don't have the rule that would then ah where do you do it so
the
ah
the suggestion is
ah
be serious about your relationships
and don't go because as soon as people have relationship
at which is an even
and ah they break up they leave or somebody leaves you know it ruins their practice
so
it's big deal
and so the
our understanding is that if you have a relationship least be
know what you're getting into and it's it's like having a dog i will always bring in my dog if you have a dog is what a cute dog you know i want that dog but you don't know that every day you have treated twice the market once or twice every single
full day
that's what relationships are
but
it is absolutely every day
oh god have to volume the night
oh i see that can reapply yes in new york are practicing i'm going to be a priest and then came down in the group that devastated be priests that to be so
oh yes i stepped away from it i don't going to do that right and then later i realized that for some people and one for stayed in that group would probably vote because she was rather us at a party of people in on track to be
just a the
my eyes are some thinking about not always so that we have and the question i asked earlier around the doubt that we don't want ever catch is dominated by either an and that perhaps is not always so thing that kind of houses navigate a middle way between celibacy and
relationships and whether people whether the hetero couples or sexual
all population
that we aren't even talking about that he together naturally as we all get together what was that again you mentioned that a co-educational in a temple obviously there are people like get together yes forget forgetting began with the guys of gals together
after that though
the spirit of transparency and credits bring it to our day and age maybe it's not always will look the catholic church yeah i mean separate as catholic churches a refuge for gay
or something like that
so and the priests you know should be able to get married
to lift the ones that
you know
that would benefit from that
so how do you find them the the the balance because each person is different and so the rules try to put everybody in the same shoes
and this excuse don't fit everybody
but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to practice
right
yeah
i'm fine i'm making some on analogy with catholic roman catholic church and zap therapist so the roman catholic church priests can either be religious or secular religious priests takes three that's already chastity and obedience your secular priests you only takes about a
chastity
so so i'm wondering and suzanne after that period of ralph marriage with a temple or kinda the monastery marks for the air thousand obedience obviously to a and poverty honestly and chassis in the temple priests today how they didn't have
chastity but does they have a medius and i think our poverty i look at richard baker
this is he liked the trump without trump of them
the murder of a faced by thousand obedience and and
a party was obedience to the vinaya but not to are not to upper well you know i mean the suggestion
well he respect
you respect your teachers
and there are rules about respecting your teachers
and
and and the leadership of the place where you have the vinaya i mean of the the horror
but it's basically
it's not like somebody's
you're loyal to the reunited you loyal to the practice
and it pretty democratic
because it's your peers
who are helping you
and you you are it's like being in the army in the sense that your buddies you protect your buddies to the are devoted to year those people who you're a practicing with
that each other and they are responsive to each other and responsible to each other
that's what keeps it all together it's not an army practice
but it has that the quality of
respect for each other and and helping each other so you know if a person has like transgressors and
ah
oh and they fail to scott scope them
a failure by transgressing
the your your your peers
are helping you to deal with it they're not just it looks like a paper since you're saying you know in fail but they're helping you to regroup yourself i thought if a month
wooden admit confess mayor's than the group could say you're out of it
well they they could say if if if you if you continue to be stubborn
if you can really that sometimes ask once you know and then they do can bring up a twice and three times and then they say will you know your encourage a bull so the by yes that yeah but they give you a chance to a row
grip yourself to yeah
how about sharing the they're not and which was how about sharing sharing the dharma
was there like and as rick
when asked off that steps of life now i think he said one of it was ah don't do for money
our
yeah how much sharing yeah we're gonna carry that are of the pitching or eating at our yes well because the lay people feed the monks
then the monks
i provide the dharma for for the play people so when and usually they were right the months to come poor priests and then the head monaco the you know or did you would give a talk with everybody
yeah so kind of like that
so and then elderly people can also come to the monastery
to receive a talk
yeah
so little give and take
yeah the motor support that the monk said that the and lady will support the monks and then the monks would feed them the dharma
so that's why in our mail chad as i said last time and i say allowed to be are packed virtue and practice deserve this meal
so when we eat with oreo yorkie at that time in that particular tell where mugs
and we're eating in know the
the buddha's head is the is the ningbo and if we feel it would just enough the our yogi needs just enough
now the other two balls or condiments basically
so when you eat with the yogi the big bowl is is the green and that that's the most that's the basic food and then you have a vegetable and fruit or whatever made in the smaller goals and you eat some added a big bowl review
eats amount of the middle ball the you go back to the big bowl and then you could have the third bow and when you done that twice that's attack with servants to come from the seconds
cause you to how much you want after that
and but sometimes the the tokyo who was conduct conducted the time is real fast
they think it's stamped with the seconds
but scrabbling
but that's the way it works if you do it right
anyway
so
oh i'm going to continue a little bit with this
skip around a little bit to get you some feeling about it
and so should any be couldn't have gone to family residences before the meal before noon
having sat down on a seat
depart without taking the owners leave without saying goodbye
that's the be confessed kind of rudeness you know you come in
and you sit down on the see then
you don't you don't share yourself you know you don't say goodbye
we think so
but that's rudeness where did she go
so these are very minor presets
you know this is you confess this you can knowledge that confess means acknowledge
i'm
so should only be cooney having gone to family residences in the wrong time between sensor done having spread out bedding and having had it spread out sit or lie down there without asking the owner's permission deaths
am
didn't understood confessed
the sunlight for women or is it also is that also for now oh it's your also permit image for this is this is just it's not some special
it's like reading as the women's but there's a similar
yes well of similar this this is of the be cooney bit precepts
well i mean is there is general counsel was it's a general sense like control it's not good we have just get out of just let me say something that's not control is like how you be attentive to your surroundings that's what it's about yeah
after different more exacting roles for women that there
there are some supposition okay let's look at the let's look at the open
i don't know if that's true
well basically all the vinaya
it it's about awareness
in relationships
it's about how did you know that that particular one was about how you don't ignore your get your your host
no
the external sensor lanzarote scout why
from hazards hits were no rules or
they can from all different places they don't normally head soccer or less than that
you know back in the
sixteenth
there we had a couple who wanted to go to japan and collect when demand with the ag and a wife went to
a i put the lip women's monastery so that this disorder
and he did terribly she did okay but her when she described what goes on in the desoto with the women it was like
like cats you know i
you know me can you know them
hey
each other
the mean to each other yeah i mean it really mean to each other in a whispering behind each other's back and
but she did okay she came back okay
this it it sounds like that the first time what you've been saying is that precepts are simply rooms by yes here
we just have as as we just have this list have a pen
the reason he said as or have these rules to live by because when we're in community we have been to cooperate and to all understand the still come in play in our radios then you know just that sort of the structure
so it sounds like that the precepts are sort of the structure of how exactly exactly
the exactly
so here
there are forty eight
transgressions in this section and section to the different sections like eight sections and they am
kootenay cook a benign and they get lighter and lighter and cities the forty eight sector debris
the capita love
the hookup lou copy the committee
and they're all right so a pico is who is impolite to is initiator
his fellow initiators or seniors came a transgression i don't want to repeat that word over over again
a big who pick who who drinks alcoholic fluid spirit liquor or anything that produces intoxication commits a transgression a big who eat flesh that comes from animal life a bigger with five forbidden pungent roots garlic three kinds of onions and leak which give rise to raga which is
desire
a beagle who does not allow his fellow beakers to make a regular confession of their since sin is not a buddhist weird but transgression a beaker who denies the request for charitable offerings or service to the preacher of the buddhist dharma
a beaker who neglects to study the buddha dharma a baker who speaks ill of of or as opposed to the buddhist dharma and the mahayana doctrine
a be who people who does not give us his sister's to the sick who begged for help a biko who has in his possession arms and weapons which may cause the killing of other beings are animals a beaker who develops himself into a diplomat as an envoy or nuncio an image
judgment of international negotiations
but that's just what we need
somebody fast well you know this is back in the day because they do that
a peek over whether by his own act
or by his instructions deals and human beings are slaves in fluttering for meat and it all and moral dealings which considering the animals commits a ah
the hookup party transgression a peek-a-boo causes a decrease so to decrease the fame of others and increase his own come hit his own that's a one of the ten presets actually a be a big increase its fire to a forest not develop into
he wouldn't send a year in a forest that causes the forest fire a beaker who speaks of kersey in cursing or sarcastic terms a bigger who speaks in vale terms with the sake of fortune
a beaker who uses a forcible style to force someone to give him some offerings so these are you know examples
i'm
well let's talk about roads yes which is not that the one you just said about speaking it failed yes
that's a good one
we we talk about the the japanese style sort of he talked to this person with this versatile over here nancy no encouragement and what could further desk can like veiling crippled up being direct with the person who needs the i originally thought
i don't think that's exactly what is the year i like the idea of you're talking straight or veil the interact with how that can affect a person's practice and their says of
that and fund army
well
i don't have failed terms it is a translation
i'm not sure
when i think is like whispering
ah and sinister whispering actually that's what it feels like to me you know think

that
yeah that's really bad to trinidad
so this is a about them
well it's the

i'm trying to see what will be comparable to the to the be cool if

another tell by to stop event planner

anyway

i've been chiefly the virtue of the casino
that's it

this is ceremony

i think you get that means people giving robes to the bugs
yeah
the catalina the garments of merit given annually to a demo t are devoted to the saga of the practice period the angle of ninety days
this
the katrina
the ceremony
with regard to the achievement of virtue of the catena the lord buddha declared that the virtuous achieved is worthy of the highest merit since it is arms africa the saga without specifying that it should go to any particular individual so they just get the ropes they don't see this goes to that wine and i
like different the the right
so in the am
had a taxi scenery bugger to try it couldn't one day while the lord buddha was staying and couple of us to city mahabharat malhotra bet maha prajapati his aunt who had brought him up presented him with a piece of cloth of her own weaving the lord buddha refused to accept it and told
to presented to the sanga as the achievement of the virtue thereof is higher than to presented to him his aunt implored to begin it again to receive the cloth but he insisted on him and his advice amanda who was the lord buddha's cousin and who acted as his personal attendant brought him to have besought him to have
a mercy on his aunt as she had a pious developments and resolved within herself that her meritorious offering was supposed to ensure happiness for her

but it doesn't say
then he accepted it or not
but probably he did because you eat it because another you know
tuck him into it
this
am a transgression and
a private
public
public twice a month they are a zamboni treasure map
but also
the there are caveats if
in their different deniers and know they were eighteen schools of buddhism in each had a little different retire some of the major precepts with the same but the minor precepts with the different
it according to you know where where
you are so
if you confess to one other monk
that might be enough so that you didn't have to do it in the assembly or if you confess to you know a group small group
then you wouldn't necessarily you'd already done that and you wouldn't have to do it before the assembly the whole assembly but only certain transgressions actually were
before the whole assembly
if they were really serious but i think you lit to lease the lesser serious ones
you can
know make sure that somebody heard you read that you
and
the monk who is
oh this is to you should have confidentiality but it but
am
the question is does that confidentiality the confidentiality okay
hold you to confessing me for off everybody that depends on the transgression i think
i think it does
three very interesting
because
when i was abbott it's and center the treasurer confessed to be and to read we will go habits that he added bezel a lot of money
but that he had returned it
and so we shouldn't want to we set because he returned it
that am
it was we did will say something because he will actually returned it and where was the crime you know
the festering interesting
but it turned out that we'd asked if we told him
go talk to the barn
about i don't want the board i don't want to report this i want you to report it
but he didn't but then eventually did and people are angry at us
because we didn't say something to them
really
dilemma
judy
please you have to speak up or underway is that way back to the book
the cooking
the

it
here are you using the word precepts
yes it is
that last last out of the and styles
i haven't got to you
and at the same time as as were listed as
history and on ah
there's also the point
how we look at this real
you know our experience looking back in time at what was the context was on that so the you had said
you know they are what they are said that
the structure of how a so on and i have that time but not the hard
she is yeah
for me when i will say that is especially in story they just call is two things one is fully talk about and the other living in the refugee relationship
the situation of relating to the first one that's the not always so practice so i'm wondering what what would you say so the my sense is the heart of the practice is really start from now and how that expresses itself in the more and a late now
have you see what is the hard on fact
i heard about practice is compassion
it has approved to talk about how you know compassion without wisdom or without understand well capital now compare it will disappear
compassion compassion is the child of wisdom
wisdom jag
wisdom is the parent of compassion
compassion is the practice of wisdom
so i'm
but compassion without wisdom is dangerous

so
to just on that that's down coming off the mice or and asked the question today you know it can be had out ironic given out regarding roshi talking about
you keep the precepts
when you he doesn't like this
and that i'm related to and what you're saying as
the western which is compassion and ah the western being a fan of compassion which is it's not something i'm actively going after are back in compassion for back
but it's that doesn't mind
and out that arises compassion natural ah
if and all we have to do is
maintains that thousand mine and whatever comes up comes out with you say so what
yes but
on formulaic way that so but actually is that what does he mean by doesn't
i'm
hamza as a means selflessness
and selflessness is wisdom
so selfishness
i'm
naturally brings up compassion
but what is compassion
hum hum
so if we think about what our activities are and how do we relate to everything with compassion
i'm
get ah
that's kinda go on get a corner by daily life how are you relate to everything with compassion and when we realize that it's really hard to do that
that we have to remember keep your vividly come back to compassion
ah which is to treat everyone as buddha
that's the person treat everyone as buddha
so even though we have a disk that you know an argument or a disagreement with people we don't we we try to understand where that person is coming from
the notches faced and you know reacted the people reacting to things that that's does not wisdom wisdom is to be able to understand where they're coming from so that you get to a deeper place with that person and you make an effort to get a deeper place with that person to
the to the root of where they're coming from rather than just the face and that and then that wisdom
compassion
coming through wisdom
their wisdom coming through compassion
come so
even though you may hate somebody book literally
we don't we do our effort is not to attach to the hey it's fine to let it come up because things come up
a lot every actually every emotion has a reason
but we don't get stuck with things and that's that's compassion as well compassion is that to get stuck on anything not not to get stuck emotionally or mentally or physically
the in a case of the embezzler and actually any case with somebody comes with a transgression they say i want to tell you this your compassion may say what you really need like invaders are you really don't need to tell everybody is and that
it is a candidate the decisions that you were into
well actually competition in the discussion i was faced with with you should this be known but i am not i appreciate the fact that you told me you know and so i'm not going to turn against you for telling me this i appreciate the fact that you say this that you know
for my compassion is to
to know i've never angry with his person and but other people were and as a their anger you know it
why an angry you know with with it to be angry about it have the road angry how do we help this person
this is the whole thing about prisoners how do we help the prisoners instead of punishing them and making them more anger
so
ah but just didn't ever felt how i feel compassion for him because he did this thing he felt remorse
he did it intended old time to put it back it according to what he said right i don't know we don't know that but i'd take it at face value
and
so my
the two sets one with he's confessing it to me but he has to tell everybody else because i'm not gonna tell on him he he did this a confidence right
so i wasn't gonna break his confidence by
turning him in his really way to stay he would have been better off had done it and keep actually say that how maybe the what if after is now with you in red had gone yes that that's what he should return that's it we expected him to do so he would have been downloaded event is taking to compassion and making the most that's right
yes yeah some like that
we have a very soft his ceremony which is sort of a generic can mass confession of sorts but i'm wondering if you think that we should have a more of a practice of confession know
i mean
i think it through what will be good if you had someone that you could compress to
that would be good
like rubbish rubbish we will be don't take over
no we don't have a vinaya i mean we'll have a blasted minaya where everyone of us are together and were you know
it's easy because that's the practices and that monastic style but
to do that i remember one time suzuki m in a chino sensei said
no and when you have maybe a good idea would be you go down to a lake or the ocean or something you know and then you you talk about your transgressions
in a setting where
nature kind of absorbs that you know
in a room with the a is opaque you know n
yeah he can be nature to help you
so in the birds are flying around
but
tradition of passionate i'm going to shy
hi flowing wire
am
bread

today
yeah
one
contaminating the water it's gone
how much skill bell
in a reactive
ah the this ceremony is called abbreviated
confession which means that
this is for beginning this read it is not like momentary is like
the whole
ah we can't remember everything that ever transpired since the beginning of time so we just confessed the whole thing without any steady anything in particular
i think it's good to talk to somebody to have a confessor and the catholic church the occupant people complain about that for the confession you know i hated that but actually through the good yeah no i you great so you can have a confessor i think that's good because you don't want anybody to do
your stuff to you
i so i also to that people wanted
yeah a hero
typically strangers close to his environment a post for regular companions and they may well want to hear it is not a honestly
yeah that way to not everybody is is is unsafe page
the best packers
ross a like the idea of each of us having a confessor it's like having a drummer from yes yes or itself so my question is if someone is a relative to come forward and the we've observed some sort of a great or inconsistency of and
major precept wrong wait a minute precept rounds what do you feel are raleigh is observing one of our sangha brothers and sisters in that process to go to them and encourage them
the to
unburden himself to the obviously they appear to be suffering they're stealing our there a lie or they're whispering off the the various major minor and of suffering yes or leave it to gouda and is it well there aren't any worked
out and eventually
if this is what target has it
as a am
ah confession system
ah which
i can remember the exactly what i've done is taken the
section from the sixth from the platform sutra
and made into a kind of confessional which it is because it's it's a confession before ordination i bet the plethora of searchers big basically built around an ordination ceremony
but that's what the platform is
and i'm so he talks about
the the ceremony is a offer incense and and saying something
and i've done that and very effective it's not as it is who you want to invite
it's not like a big public ceremony but it's a bad
i hope who you would like to be there were news when you do that this great for person actually recognize that the video yeah but work before for people look up the observing of behavior john extreme example richard baker his service so people observe that
where when and where it then a minor thing is somewhat like eating too loudly with their oreo right that that's minor as the time of day but the question linked like say something and to remind person and encouraging their practice to harmonize live quietly or to
well and those that formulae it's a case by case basis it's a case by case basis yeah the our the i don't be like a tattle tale
right
so
you tell somebody and and other person you can say this a you can
the to the person who are your confessor
that i would like to keep this confidential and you tell you something i wanna keep it confidential than the person says okay or don't tell me
right
or you can say
it's okay if you tell the people
i be like i observed so so of behavior and when you talk about somebody else yeah that well that we already know what to do you tell me when does went with it you say so so was doing this right and then as it were
i i can be the one that
the the disciplines or that's not right word but reminds his person because they don't know selling their peers turn back the you want somebody the liar actually
so yes then you took the you tell the you know depending on situation is under manager the session director or sojourn of an ellen are you know and then i decide how to do that because they should
respect me but they may not respect their peer in that sense
thank you for be explicit reminding yeah yes we know people think we'll i want to borrow and underwent a bother with in the habit but you should always be bothering the up an all time
yeah i can't see your face but i see your hair so i want a second worst of
i loved him
ah that i agree
it really is an encouragement
he gave your karmic effects that the way to guess that's one way do that is to personally peasants vow ah
and that was kind of an accepted way ill when you realize you
how does an experience and powerful
ah it's jefferson city
you're actually going
other donna
companions
and as there's something in ritual confession and size with disappointed when i was that pacify the first time reading with me we will be spending karma and we've practiced confession and patterns and we had a ceremonies and it was quite amazing actually
ah the kind of catharsis that happen
are people really were the we were in fact that this for three months and of course community so listen just anybody
drugs a bot the aren't together
for january three months but it was life
yeah was quite that are quite powerful and i can people did a unbearable burden themselves what what what's your body with the we actually get a confession and repentance ah ceremony
there have we get it recreated pretty much for why they have it and i must every day you met when we say that you mean not just like police officer went out if they aren't just because a good individual individual people smoke and week we may offer it when you when it made an offering and confession
and on and then you know there was some champions of oh so we actually had them ceremonies and is quite powerful so i just i'm not saying we should do that but i'm that i think that it is it isn't looking all over his teaching said that is good way to handle
no one with your transgressions the and is anna ceremony away with us
with respect and circle of excited random
but you know first of all
you have to know what the rules are
and you have to accept the rules
and then you know what it is he did wrong
you may know anyway
but that vinaya country is based on know roof
oh yeah we would love and we were talking about the precepts you're not the not the timing for it
the sixteenth this and presumably all of us have taken the precepts have promised follow-up yeah well so we go now you here
oh
good job here so i'll go back to take baker the foot only to go back to get baker and or dictator here was the fact that did you guys deal with him
admitting that he
no and had to leave he never he never admitted that proof he never admitted that he screwed up to what happened with well
you can only take it for so long
we didn't kick him out
he just had to live
i'm you just obvious that he had to leave for go away he just
he can imagine how when it was like i gotta take me long time to tell you
so
i actually said the and i said you know what we cannot be you have a big repentant ceremony everybody
oh everybody's instead of together have a big repentance ceremony than we didn't get it
clean it out clean herself up and a people were really you know how feel good about you then
instead he took a walk
that's is not just you your own got contributed to others
i thought was a great idea
but so what did you do when he left you selected i'm gonna walk down to a plethora
so you started working it ended up at his friend's house when fit
that was the end of that
and then you have
yes the tickets five years to clean up the mess
he was it was like a broken and like a rudderless ship
floating around in the sargasso sea

i think our are racing my talks are
the kind of confession yeah yeah cause even if you're even if you don't say what is tonight
either becomes through yeah i think that's true that's a good point
there's a reason why we do they react research which means
abbreviated
because it's not dualistic is not comparing good with bad and right with wrong
did you say this is tacoma
i i acknowledge all the karma oh my auntie tangled karma or twisted karma
i'm like to get a name every little thing just the whole business you know gonna to throw up
and created an eye knowledge on that
i'm
so for better or worse
it's not about better and worse instantly about what happened
ah and then we we do our i'm gonna go over that if we have done
not today
that for the

but anyway before and forget this for you to copy for us

so i don't have any new material but i may have some
before next thursday
hey
cause we haven't really got to the material that i gave with the first night and i want to go over there next january yeah i want to go with that understand
can get they get a little sidetracked but they get bigger than you think they're going to be
but
okay