had internalized it in their own life. Nevertheless, the other integration or internalization would have to be of a community. And as Brother James was saying, I think that a lot of people come to the monastery to join, but they bring with them a variety of devotional practices and almost really no concept at all of these ideas. And kind of how do we get this needed into a whole, or even into the new people, and so on and so forth? And the first point was, what was it still? The whole, what you gave this morning. It's too rich for normal people. I don't want to say rich. It's strange, I think. A lot of them understand the words but not the sense.

[01:02]

I mean, you know, those real concepts of the living way. It took the year, it took the church even, even from 1910 to, you know, 1965 to even be grasped. And a lot of the people still have, you know, the notion of liturgy is lost on most people. It's absolutely lost. But anyway, how do we, what do we help people into this? I would agree with you that for the most of our Christian people, these ideas are too high. But nevertheless, I would say they are only the doctrine of our master. Normally, the Christians do not know it. The normal Christian of every day knows some pious points. go to the Mass on Sunday, perhaps also Friday, no, and once the Holy Communion, and kill not nobody.

[02:12]

And then I would say again, for a people who has seen our Lord, taken contact with him at once, normal people, all the people I see here in your church, these lay people. I have the impression they know very well what they must do. They are ready to do it. They are ready to live also in the middle of the world according to the principle of our Lord praying, actively participating and trying to continue this wonderful richness of divine life in the daily duty and daily life and daily death and so on. I am not very pessimistic at this point. These people at least, but there are 100,000 in New York City, in every city. If at least the priests and the teachers would be convinced about this reality and insist in every Sunday sermon, in every meeting, that it's not enough to make some formal...

[03:27]

realizations. It is necessary to be convinced internally and so far as possible take real contact with our Lord in knowledge of all the scripture. But who does know it? Who does read the gospel of the people outside? The men who will not do it will not lose The eternal life will not be condemned to the hell by the mercy of God. If I touch only the last garment of this vestment, I shall be healed. Okay, that's enough. But the ideal is that we are doing it really, knowing the gospel, realizing the gospel, that we are... celebrating liturgy, not only assistant as they are doing it in the last benches of the church near to the door.

[04:34]

We call this in German Kessel, no, Weibuster Kessel Company, company of the blessed water in the beginning of the church. Water company. Oh, that's not enough. Nevertheless, if they are doing it really, if a sincere act of faith is enough for them, for their eternal life, but to be witness, Nothing. I would say, if the entire people would follow this vision of liturgy, according to number 5 and 10 in the liturgy constitution, that the Pascal mystery could be expressed vitally in the life, and the fate of the earth would be changed, and all the problems of nuclear war would not exist. We do not do it. Therefore, in hope against hope, we must continue to preach, to speak to the people that they are doing it really. Somebody of you told me, it is not custom in the Catholic family of the United States to pray together in the morning.

[05:42]

I cannot judge about it. In Germany, it will be the same. But our grandfathers surely were praying every morning together. the old generations. And we now must try to get it again. It is not enough to pray personally in my heart. I must pray with my parents, with my children, at least for one minute, every morning, every night. According to the new liturgy, where it said in the liturgical constitution, the cardinal hours are only two, morning prayer and evening prayer. All others are not so much important. Perhaps the reading of the Holy Scripture. And in a great liberty, the faithful in the world must do the same. And we as priests and as monks must insist that they are doing it really. And I know some young couples. It's a wonderful idea. A young man with his girl with his blight. I'm trying to do that together.

[06:45]

From the first beginning on. But who is doing so? Not many. If they would do so hard, then all the problems were more or less resolved. And the second point? For people who join the monastery. You're a place. You're a place. Oh. For these people. I have to get rid of everything I brought here. And he has to help me through that. Therefore, I didn't understand your problem. The people who come through to become monks here, they don't know nothing about it? I don't believe that. What he's saying is many Catholics will come to the monastery maybe from a parish life and a family life in which they practice devotional Catholicism, in which their Catholicism has been... maybe one in which their vocation has received impetus, their vocation has received what has made them apply to coming to the monastery, has been wrapped up in that kind of spirituality, which the new liturgical changes has kind of pushed to the side.

[08:02]

When this candidate comes into the monastery and you have... He has scandalized. ...the subjective hyperpiety. How do you get... this devotional-orientated candidate to come into this objective factor. I would say this piety of hearts which is there, we must retain it. With the same piety with which these good people have said, Rosaline, we are coaches, sacred heart devotions, and so on, and so on, and so on. With the same piety, with the same vigorous strength, read and meditate and sing the psalms and come to every hour in the morning and sixth. No time to pray the rosary. Please. No time to pray the rosary. But you have time to say sixth and divisions in the morning. And rosary?

[09:04]

Oh, I would not say so. We have again learned to say rosary. Not solemnly in the church. We don't any. Our brothers did it 50 years ago. We abolished it. But if you go with car from here to Elmira alone, why not say without the things in the hand but by heart, Ave Maria, Ave Maria, why not in Jesus' prayer? Oh no, we do it. We like it. But all these forms are only continuation of the fundamental objective forms. of psalms in the divine office, of the Eucharistic celebration, with the continuation of the highest form of prayer, which is the Eucharistic prayer, the hymn of thanksgiving, it is right and good to give you thanks, and sing holy, holy, holy, and then continuing, and the memory of the death and the resurrection of our Lord, here is the most important thing,

[10:08]

Learn it. But with the same piety you had before you came. But I think normally a young man who is chosen this type of monastic life knows already this orientation. Only objective piety is not cold piety. My warmest personal subjective realization of this fundamental piety objective values given to us by the church, by the gospel, by our Lord himself. It is very nice to speak with our Lord Jesus Christ. We say in German, the Lieber Heiland. How do you say in English for that? The dear Savior. Have you such a word in English? The people. The sweet Jesus. The sweet Savior, yeah. No, no, no, no. We speak to our Lord, the curious. Jesus, our friend, our brother, it's true, but he became curious.

[11:13]

He, according to the second chapter to the Philippians, did not believe his divinity as a... but he humiliated himself became men like we until the death of God and therefore he was exalted to the glory of heaven that everybody must kneel down and glorify Jesus is the Lord and we can participate in his Lordship in his glorification and therefore I would say these young people who come must learn to pray if the Apostle in the third chapter to the Ephesians, that God, the Father, may give us, according to the riches of his glory, dynamically be strengthened by his spirit in our internal manner.

[12:16]

Dynamically. Not in a sweet way, but in a powerful way. But I am answering with all my love in agape, as Father Damos has said it always, in agape. In agape, which also is expressed in a very kind way in which we are greeting each another, in which we are bearing in patience our difficulties. Because it's very easy to speak about love, but to do it is very much difficult. And so on. More or less, more or less. Here is a problem. You are right. Therefore, all the piety we had as children, the warmness, the substantive of warm. The warm of this piety, we must retain it, but then openness to the greater forms of these objective elements, psalms, gospel, epistles of St. Paul. Who of the faithfuls of these friends of the sweet Jesus are reading the epistles of St.

[13:21]

Paul? And nevertheless, here is the greatness of God. And then perhaps we must be right. Some of the peoples read the Holy Scripture of good old women, more than we believe. It's true, it's true, yes, yes, you are right. Therefore, these people in a certain way prepare. They have, what do we say in English, cities. Cities.

[14:21]

They have turned to these greater forms of spirituality. And they find them sometimes in these texts of all these people who have been here in the symposium of the World of Silence. All these wonderful young American boys which are following the The swamis, this doctor, this famous doctor. Okay. But he saved them from drunkenness, from other drugs and so on. And now they came here and see, now you are singing. Psalms, the Gospel, and the simplicity, and the powerful greatness of that, and also your silence. And finally, they say that you are ready to realize it in everyday life, not only for some days, for a meeting weekend, but do it, do it, do it.

[15:25]

But they are far still from perfection. The young man who was here back in the early 70s was very interested in the monastic life, but eventually became a Buddhist priest in California. Brahman himself, when I came, only two years ago, was highly interested in seminary prayer. About doing two periods of seminary prayer a day was absolutely essential for a variety of reasons. I reduced my estimation of it. When we get... And we're going to get many more people like that. We're going to get people who come saying, I want to live a liturgical life in the tradition of Oden-Cosal, Maria, Laugh, and the psychedelic. We're going to get many more. We've heard of the Swamiji. We've heard of those three. When we get people like that, what's our attitude toward them? These people, would they hear through this, to this doctrine, or not?

[16:31]

Oh, I'm saying they would never have heard of it. They'd never heard about it, yes. I would say that it's not doctrine of Odokasa, not doctrine of Maria Lager, it's doctrine of the gospel. And it would be necessary to speak, these young people, and this young man who came has been here some days, one day perhaps, for an entire summer. And nevertheless, he became Buddhist priest. He wasn't a Catholic in the beginning. No, he wasn't a Catholic, sorry. He was not a Catholic. Ah, sure. Therefore, yes, it's not really, yes, it's difficult, difficult, difficult. He was a Christian, you know, and he took off with the girl that was living with another guy down on the river, you know, things like that. So there was a certain kind of goodness, but I don't think he had an ocean of God. He was not Christian, not Catholic.

[17:31]

He has never been a real Christian. And he was seeking, and it may be that, no, he is finding his way to God. You cannot judge about him. But no way, our way. He was avoiding the draft. The Vietnam War. Against the war. The Vietnam War was on at the time. He wanted to stay here so that the draft war wouldn't bother him. You know, they felt that he was pursuing a religious career. So, to avoid the war. I would say... I think that he should be able to welcome and accept and not be threatened by these others, but that the dynamism of a thing like this should be able to... to catch them, to bring them into itself. There's also evidently a question of grace of God.

[18:33]

Perhaps he had not the grace to do it. And also, if he came only in the first moment to avoid the necessity to go as soldier in the war, all these people who are against the war because they fear to face the death are not good they must fear to kill another but we ourselves must be ready to share in the passion of our Lord to die with him and here I would say in a certain way finally we come always to the same piety as our grandfather said it bear the cross but because of glory Because it's the fountain of life. And our grandfathers have seen it too. Many of these old-fashioned people, when they must suffer a death, good mothers had faith.

[19:37]

And they could say, the Lord has given us. The Lord has taken it. The name of the Lord may be blessed. They could say it's reality better than we sometimes. let's say the clear forceful way of the devotion of the house I think if it was strong and fair I think it wouldn't do a lot but I think ours is kind of muted subdued or subdued Well, muted is the word I use, but let me show you here. In low key... Not demonstrated. It's not strong. For example, people would say that there are too many spiritualities here.

[20:41]

They're here. Too many spiritualities? I think at one time that was true. What do you mean with that? Well, the kind of charismatic spirituality with... you know, with all for Jesus, and you had a kind of ascetic piety which was, you know, going to make it, you know, through fasting and severity, and you had... Did you have that here? Yeah, we've had all these currents, yeah. But notice the doctrine of the house. Somebody did this. The doctrine of the house hasn't been really strong and hasn't been as strong and as clear and has lived by all the people. I remember the difficulties of the charismatic movement, alas, yes. Yes. and so on. I would say, to play, as the charismatic group has done it, is marvelous. But as a second form, subordinated to these objective forms here. I remember in 74, in the year when Father Ansgar made his solemn profession, all his friends came.

[21:46]

And we were beginning in the morning at 4 o'clock, or half past 4, with the visuals. At the second o'clock, we were meeting, after loss, I think, for Jesus' prayer for an entire hour, without being tired, in a very high level, helped by all these people coming from the biblical institute in Rome. And then at 10 o'clock or 9 o'clock, the high mass, the entire morning, from 4 to 12, praying, we have not been tired. And all these young people, boys and girls, it was marvelous, marvelous. But only, only... as a second element, to realize what we are doing in the highest point of our spiritual life. Therefore, in the sacred action of liturgy, according to the Council, liturgical action is the Sacra Actio Precelentea, In the most eminent meaning is a sacred action.

[22:47]

And the efficacy of this sacred action cannot be surpassed by no other action. Other actions are only realization. So, or so, or so. Sometimes in the patients to stay in the kitchen. Sometimes to be occupied with sheep. And sometimes to study. It doesn't matter. But first of all, Eucharistic sacrifice, the highest reality. Then the hours, and then our reading. Perhaps also sometimes Eucharistic Jesus prayer. I'm not very convinced. I remember the critique of this lady of your, one of our guest houses. Austria. Where was it? Which house? Yeah. And she said to me, that is, said, Wish only to show themselves. That is the danger of the Jesus prayer. It's right to show themselves since... Our prayer in the choir is quite objective.

[23:59]

You don't not show your movement in the heart. That's your lust. Stay and pray. for me to explain it. More sober. As this morning I could speak to the guests about this wonderful word of the old hymn of St. Ambrose in the Old Monday Liturgy. Leti pibamus soporiam ebrietatem spiritus. Joyfully let us drink the sober drunkenness of the Holy Spirit. It must be nearly taken by this enormous power of the psalms and nevertheless nearly you cannot see it we are in a certain chastity we are taking it in our heart not everyone can must see the explicitly Jesus a lot of people young people my generation

[25:12]

are looking for something, you know, they'll see our liturgy or something. They want something to happen. They want to be acted upon. Okay, okay. Singing, singing. Well, they want an experience. They want an experience. Okay, yes. And then you must have also the gift of the discernment of the spirits, if it is really. the ecstasy of the Spirit, or only some, what are you saying, some exhortation. I would say, according to the doctrine of our monastic tradition, let us wait for the moment when the Holy Spirit himself gives us this experience, to have it immediately. These young people come, wish to stay together,

[26:12]

with pompets and instruments that they are really ecstatic and excited. It's not the movement of the spirits, some human excitation. In a certain way, we wish to to experiment to experiment is reality to feel it but in faith and in soberness so that we are convinced and so that we are doing it but also it really does happen in one's heart filled with joy and really dancing in that way and tears and all that if you are able to be moved until tears after the divine office, after the Eucharistic sacrifice.

[27:17]

Okay, but you must not show it immediately to others. But nevertheless, your external behavior must be a witness to the other people. How you are staying there in veneration, in... For in the presence of the majesty of God, the people which are seeing you, and I think that is the experience of the faithful from outside. In all the monasteries we have, if they see such a choir of monks staying there in reverence, singing, bowing, very well doing it, here is digital state, the finger of God. Also you perhaps stay there before With difficulty, you are tired. Nevertheless, you are persevering. And here is perseverance. Also, you are tired.

[28:19]

That is also an experience of God. We are doing it because we are believing in Him. We are trusting in Him. He will not leave us and so on. Therefore, you are right. Yes. That was also the sentence of all these young people in the Symposium on the World of Silence. These young American people became Buddhists, became Indians from the Far East because they wished to feel God. Yes. We can eat him. We can drink him. And sometimes we feel him in our brotherly love. But always in sobria ebria tata. waiting for, I would say, with normal Catholic doctrine of contemplatio, if we try to get this experiment of God by our human activity, contemplatio acquisita, there is a talent of man, contemplatio infusa, we must wait until God...

[29:34]

gives us this wonderful consolation to be touched by his presence nevertheless we are persevering doing our duty in this objective form of the piety of the church also we don't feel it because we don't do it to feel it but we do it to find God do you think it's a person Praise the Psalms, go to this liturgy, without having any faith, but do it religiously every day. Without faith? Without faith. Go to Mass, pray the Psalms. Can they become believers? It depends on their intention. If somebody is doing it without faith, how can they do it really? But if he has the intention to do it really because God has said it, then he has faith.

[30:41]

At least the beginning of faith. But again, without faith, you could not please to God. Your work is without any food. Because the difficulty that I can see between the faith... I have some experience of somebody. I am talking from my experience. You are so? I am talking from my own experience. You did do it. You did it. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for transcendental meditation. But why did you not remain in transcendental meditation? Because you have seen it is not enough. Please. Okay, it wasn't enough. And you have done it also in a good intention, in intention to find God. No.

[31:45]

Why did you do it? Because I want to see, to find out if that thing really works. What did you want to see? Divinity. The reality of being. Here is the beginning of faith. You have done it in the intention to do your duty, to find the mystery of the human existence. You have done it not without grace. And the grace had conducted you through these possibilities to the real experience, the faith. Without faith, all these methods are splendid, can help in a certain way, but without faith, not for God. But nevertheless, who is doing it? And all these Americans, Indian and Islamic and Buddhist mystiques have in a certain way this idea.

[32:59]

every religious Christian faith. They were lost drinking and using drugs. And they tried to come out. And Dr. Watton, or what's his name, tried to help them. Also with a good intention. And they came here because they have seen Christianity has some real values. And they have been all excited. You remember this morning when we were waiting for the sun... sonalized. And then we were celebrating the Mass with Panika. And he opened the door that the air could have entered. Marvelous. And we have been touched by it. I would say here it was a Christian celebration with faith where we were trying to express it also in human forms according to this pathos. But the fundament has been our faith. Wasn't his liturgy a paraliturgy? Oh, I was very much criticizing him.

[33:59]

I was in no way agreeing. Oh, yes, he did. No, only he did too much, and he was using too many elements which are not allowed. Did you stick your hands in the fire? No, it wasn't necessary to do so. I didn't do it. And some people, they brought the bowl of fire on him. Only the fire was seen, and to warm our hands, but not to... It was a little bit dangerous. I wasn't agreeing with him. I could say only in that time in my critique, he did it with reverence. He did it now on certain limits, but he did not do it well. His purpose was not addressed to God. Also, some technical mistakes, yes. And then also, the communion. It was so strange that the Muslim has given me the divine host, breaking it and giving it to me.

[35:01]

He was taking it on his head. How about Francis Martin? Francis Martin. What is liturgy? You see all the present here? Yes, he had the presenting liturgy. St. John Chrysostom. Oh, so, yes. The Greek war has been better, yes. Oh, yes. And so far as I remember, in a certain occasion, only the Greek monk and I were protesting against some terrible heresies. I don't remember, anyway, what it was. But it was a marvelous experience. Oh, no, no, no, no. Glory. And you have seen perhaps the recension I have given. It was a miracle tool that a small monastery of 20 monks was able to assemble 200 peoples for a week without destroying the life of the monastery.

[36:05]

For both the community and for these people. It was an extraordinary thing. unforgettable. The rabbis too, yes. Wonderful people, yes, believing in a certain way. So, therefore, let us continue in faith. and using sometimes also these methods, but these methods, not Christian methods, only as technical means to help us in the realization of our real Christian tradition. Here's the most important point. And obeying to the church. I was against Panika because he did not obey. He created a liturgy which was not the liturgy of the church, but made by him. He could do it, but he's not allowed to do so. And it's better to be humbly obedient to the church, but then trying to fulfill it from eternal life.

[37:08]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_87.51