This conference is entitled, The Experience of Humility. With John Cashin, humility not only chases away fear and produces love, it also changes the spiritual life from a hard, ascetic struggle to an easy, spontaneous experience of God. Now, the Master and Benedict follow Cassian in this regard. They quote, all that the monk once performed with dread, he will now begin to observe without effort, as though naturally from habit. So that's the verse, basically, that I'm commenting on here, and that's almost at the end of chapter seven.

[01:09]

Now, that's verse 67. No, it isn't either. It's 68. This claim of John Cashion that the monastic way of humility, if carried out faithfully, will result in a definite transformation of the person This, I think, is characteristic of Cassian's whole view of the spiritual life and of the monastic life. Now, of course, you could probably quote passages of Cassian against me, because Cassian's writings are voluminous. you know, 24 conferences and 12 institutes, you know, and that's a lot, you know, it's, so Cassian, it virtually talks about every aspect of the monastic life, and that's why he is so valuable as a voice from ancient times.

[02:21]

But he's not very systematic, and probably contradicts himself. If you read enough Cashin, you'll probably find some contradictions, okay? And I don't want to present myself as some kind of international expert on John Cashin. Anyway. For John Cashin, all of the striving ceases. It's not for itself. And it isn't just for the next life either. It is for this life, and it will have empirical results. In other words, there should be a change in a person. It should have some behavioral consequences, and someone ought to be able to experience it about herself or himself.

[03:30]

John Cashin makes this point very clearly in Conference One, when he insists that it is not enough for a monk to aim for heaven. Certainly, heaven is the end of every Christian. but it is a remote end and it is beyond this life. If we are to attain it, he says, we must aim at a narrower goal in this life, which he calls purity of heart. Now, I want to make a clear distinction between heaven as an end and then purity of heart as a goal. Actually, the two ideas, I mean, if you look them up at Webster, are probably synonymous. You know, they're very close. But Cashin clearly distinguishes between, he uses two different words.

[04:40]

Darned if I can remember them right now. One of them is tell, huh? Okay, tell us, I mean, y'all know this. I can go home, I'm gonna go home. I read an article one time, however, there is one complication here that I wonder if you realize. He uses an image of archery in that conference, and he says, you know, archers don't just aim at a target, but they need a skopos, right? And you know, that's rather confusing, because when you think of target archery, Certainly you're simply aiming at that bullseye, and I suppose maybe you're using some point on the bow or something to line it up with, but I studied that question out because it seemed quite confusing, and especially in this new Paulist translation

[05:41]

of in the classics of Western spirituality where the translator did not bother to clearly distinguish between skopos and telos. And he just, you know, using synonyms and stuff, bad. Well, what I found out, I think, was that it isn't a question of target archery at all. It's a question of cloud shooting. And cloud shooting is, It's long-range stuff, lofting arrows, shooting maybe 100, maybe 200 yards. I don't know how far they could shoot arrows. But you shot for a target drawn on the ground. You try to loop that arrow, sort of like a javelin, I think. It would stick in the target. But you can't see the target because it's flat. So he says, you need a skopos. I think you need a flag sticking up to know where, you know. So that's a little contribution I think I made to this.

[06:46]

Not very much, I'll grant you, but okay. Notice that this idea, of this worldly goal for the monastic life, puts Cassian in the company of those who preach realized eschatology. He does not believe that the spiritual results and enjoyment are to be completely deferred. For him, there ought to be certain results in this life if anything is really being accomplished. And regarding humility, he says that you can tell if the process is taking when it is being internalized and when it comes naturally. So there are empirical signs. That's where the signs come up. If a person says, well, am I becoming humble or am I growing in humility or whatever,

[07:54]

Someone might say, oh, just wait till heaven and you'll find out sometime, you never know. No, Skashen says, well, here's 10 indications that might indicate that there is some progress. So I think that's a pretty important point. In this matter, Kashen is very unlike the rule of the master. Even though the master certainly follows Cassian very closely, and certainly considers him a master, no, I'd better not use that confusion, but the master follows Cassian. On this point, he differs completely, maybe without realizing it, but I'm pretty sure he does, for the master The results of all of this strenuous ascesis by a monk are strictly in the next life. I think he is an extreme future eschatologist.

[08:59]

We can see this very clearly in the way that the master ends his chapter on humility. Even though he reproduces Cassian's statement about internalization and spontaneity, the one I read, He goes on to paint a rather elaborate and remarkable picture of the heaven to which the monk will arrive if he climbs this ladder of humility. So there's about 30 verses at the end of RM 10 which describe heaven. And that's not the only place he does it. He does that also at the end of chapter four. It's interesting, those two big blocks have this heavenly description at the end. It is so materialistic, you think you're reading the Quran. It's all about apricot trees and lemon trees and this and that.

[10:03]

I guess there are no dancing girls. But for monks, who needs dancing girls? Okay, so anyway, you get this. Now, of course, I mean, I can't prove this in any conclusive way, but I think it's interesting that these heavenly descriptions seem to be terribly important for him at the end of these processes. Well, I don't know if that the instruments of good works is exactly a process, but it's another huge unit. Okay. Like the ladder of humility, chapter 3, 4, 5, and 6 of the RM, that's the Ars Spiritualis, that's the instruments of good works, is a long list of Christian maxims to be implemented, like Benedict's.

[11:04]

The result, he says, will be happiness in a heaven of delight. In deferring spiritual delight for heaven, the master is quite consistent, I think, with his overall view of Cenobitic life. He sees the Cenobite as a person who is so hopelessly bereft of spiritual gifts that he or she must find a master, an abbot, who will tell him anything to do and everything to think. And then if he does exactly what he's told, he can be saved. But on his own, not a chance. That spilled out pretty clearly in the I think it's at the end of chapter 1 of the RM, where he says explicitly that Cenobites are not wise by definition.

[12:19]

That's why they have to be Cenobites, because they're fools. They follow Lady not Lady Wisdom, but the other gal, you know, in the Book of Wisdom. And she's the one that beckons, come hither, my son. And so, if we're that kind of a cypher, if we're a cypher spiritually, then we better find a master, attach ourselves to him. And that's why I think, and that permeates the whole rule of the master, the monks, are never given credit for an ounce of brains. They're all just sort of hopeless guys who need to be led by the nose to do this or that. And if you don't, they're just all gonna collapse. I've already commented, we've discussed here, there are really no spiritual seniors in the RM. There are deans. But the deans are simply watchdogs.

[13:22]

They really don't have any spiritual competency. They're just spies. And, of course, the master is extremely paranoid about everybody. You know, he's got to keep an eye on people. And, okay. By the way, Devogwe loves the master. And I wish that he would have the experience of living under the master. for a couple of weeks, and then maybe he would change his mind. When will they get together in heaven, those two? You never know. This is a pretty unattractive picture, but I believe that it is accurate. Rarely does the master give the ordinary monk credit for anything except obedience. A monk said one time, what are my rights? And the abbot said, a Christian burial. Well, you know, now that's the old days.

[14:24]

I mean, that's the old days. However, however, I was on a visitation a few years ago with a certain abbot. And I thought this abbot was basically a 20th century abbot. And we got, he and I walked and got in a discussion about the rights of monks. And I insisted that monks have rights. And they got a right, for example, to live the monastic life. And he said, no, they have no rights. They've just got duties. And I said, well, I'm damn glad I'm not your monk. He was still an abbot from a different place. I said, that is why you guys in the Benedictine, the American Casanese congregation insist on taking monks and stationing them outside the monastery and so forth when they don't want to be there. In fact, in our new constitutions from 1989, you can't do that to a monk anymore. He has to agree to go out. To me, it was a basic victory when we got that through.

[15:30]

Okay, the master, however, does not seem to expect that the monk will anticipate the joys of heaven at all in this life. He doesn't hold out much hope. Where does Benedict stand in regard to these two very different sources? Because after all, we're working on this sort of three-layered series, huh? Cassian, the master, and Benedict. Where's Benedict? I think he stands with Cassian against the master. I think he basically sort of leapfrogs backward over the master to Cassian. And I think Benedict's got direct access to Cassian. He's got his text, huh? Of course, he never says that he disagrees with the master on this point. But he never says, he never mentions the master at all.

[16:33]

There are no footnotes in the Rule of Benedict. I mean, in ancient times, you don't, you don't footnote, you just plagiarize. You know, well, you use what you need. There are no copyright laws. Regarding our present text, RB7 on humility. Benedict, I think, makes his point by carefully omitting the master's long, naive description of heaven. He simply chops off the text at that point. Now, he does, you could say, You could explain this away by claiming that he's simply taking the means to shorten the text of the Master, because apparently he wants to do that. Benedict's rule is only one third as long as the RM. You've got to shorten something.

[17:35]

I mean, if your project is partly compression, you've got to leave something out. But I think it is curious that he does the same thing at the end of the instruments of good works. He chops off the long, picaresque description of heaven. I admit, this is an argument from silence. An argument from silence is notoriously slippery. Why does a redactor, an editor, omit something? My general attitude is that Benedict omits what he wishes to omit, and I think he wants to return to Cassian's point of view in this case, that the monastic process should have empirical results in this world and not just the next. I think I have a kind of motto.

[18:40]

I mean, it's not very profound, and it's probably not from Aristotle, but it is this. All the way to the end is the end, meaning that somehow the means that you take to an end ought to be of somehow the same quality as the end. For example, if you claim that heaven will be pure bliss and joy, but you yourself are an old grump and determined never to smile, etc., what do you think you're up to? What are you preparing for? Then there seems to be no continuity between the means and the end. It is possible to see this more clearly, I think, in some other places in the Holy Rule.

[19:43]

For example, at the end of the prologue, in verses that Benedict has purposely inserted into the text of the Master, he makes the very same point. Even though the monastic road is hard and narrow at first, he says, if we hold firm to it, it will eventually result in the inexpressible delight of love. You probably know that verse. It's very famous. Here again, I thought it was one of the hardest to translate because it's so pregnant. It's so full of the idea. But as we progress in this way of life and in faith, we shall run on the path of God's commandments, our hearts overflowing with the inexpressible delight of love.

[20:45]

And even that, I think, is a pretty conservative translation. I mean, it's just a kind of overflowing idea. And it's been, purposely inserted just right before the end of the prologue. He's copying along for 45 verses, and he puts in this section of three verses precisely about this point. And what it does is, it inserts this very idea into the master's text, which basically all it promises a monk is the cross. you know, the cross, you can expect to get crucified. If I join this place, this is a skola, and what it means is crucifixion. That's about the way the Master's prologue ends.

[21:46]

Wait, just a second, oh, I don't know. So he puts in these three verses about the thing leading from hard struggle to joy. To me, that's an almost irrefutable literary argument, because there's no question that he has inserted this material purposely, no other possibility. In fact, Benedict's concept of conversatio, which does not appear, by the way, in the Rule of the Master, runs along the same lines. It refers to a process with a beginning, a middle, and an end. This is quite clear from R.B. 73, the last chapter of the epilogue, which talks about the different stages of this process. For our purposes here, it is enough to say that Benedict thinks that there should be real progress in the life of a monk and that it should produce spiritual fruits.

[22:56]

I mean, if I feel somehow about myself that there's no growth, I think if I went to the master and said, hey, I'm not growing, he'd look at me and say, you expect to, you nerd? Oh, just work for heaven, what are you so impatient about? But I think Benedict would say, yeah, your brother, you got a concern, and let's talk about it. Okay. I don't want to run this point too hard, because I know that it can be complex, and it can take very different forms for different people, this idea of somehow an experience of God. I think, for example, of Dorothy Sayers, a British novelist who was a convert to Christianity, I think from atheism, and who freely admitted that she had never felt anything at all for God, but that she did experience exaltation when she thought about St.

[24:12]

Thomas's proofs for his existence. Not too many of us, I think, would be bouncing off the ceiling when we read Thomas's proofs for the existence of God, you know? She is a pure rationalist, in a sense. I mean, her mind is sort of the core of her personality. Well, I have to admit that I think I myself would be almost happiest sometimes, and maybe most alive spiritually, when I'm studying the Bible. I mean, studying it pretty, you know, systematically. I lose track of all time. I sometimes go hours, I don't know what time it is. I'm sure other people are watching the clock, you know? So all of us have different ways of experiencing, and so I don't want to make that a narrow idea. Well, what about the monk who is simply hanging on by sheer willpower, by his fingernails?

[25:22]

I don't know what to say to him. If you're not experiencing any joy at all in this way of life, you should try something else. But I don't know, I mean, who knows? To make generalized statements, maybe this doesn't help much. Maybe for some, all God requires is willpower, sheer willpower. Maybe that's the way that they're most alive spiritually is when they're exercising their will. Perhaps this is all that God is gonna grant him in this world. In this regard, maybe the master has something right. I hate to grant the master anything. But I think this kind of austere experience of God can hardly be normative. Here again, I mean, I think a question for a monk or a novice or somebody is simply this, are you happy? I think some guys would say, what's that got to do with it?

[26:27]

It's nothing to do with it. Monasticism is not about being happy. Well, isn't it? People are naturally motivated by pleasure. I think God could hardly be called good if he then systematically withheld spiritual enjoyment from most people. Often enough, Benedict speaks of the joy that we ought to be experiencing because of our monastic life. He even emphasizes joy during Lent. This seems to be God's ordinary way of showing us that we are in the right game. We find happiness. Cassian expects it. The Master doesn't expect it. Benedict expects it. Then we should expect it. The end of the conference. Well, no, see, that's Cassian's list of signs.

[27:47]

And those signs are just short sentences. And then they get expanded into these 12 steps. So if you get a step like, you get a step like that fourth one, that's that toughie, huh? About obedience under unjust conditions. I think in Cassian's view, If your heart can still quietly embrace suffering in those situations, then you have a kind of sign to yourself that something's happening, that maybe there is some progress. But anyway, he just has that short kind of list of suggestions, and he could probably have made 100 different ones. But those are sort of, If you notice this happening to you, if you notice yourself reacting in such and such a way, it's not like you set out to do this.

[28:48]

And I'm afraid that sometimes the ladder of humility looks like, do that, and then you'll be climbing. Whereas Kashin says, what's happening to you? Take a look at yourself. What are you feeling like? And so on. Yes? where they're at, and how they feel about one another, how they feel about God, how they feel about their brothers. You know, and especially in the case of being a servant of God, you know, what kind of a servant are you going to be? You know, are you going to be a judge, or someone who's always unpleasant? You know? If that's all, you know, if you're someone who struggles through love, you know, then certainly you should be a person. If it's just a kind of grim struggle for survival or something, you wonder about it.

[29:50]

Yeah? Sure. Sure. There's a lot of factors that I don't bring in here. There's all kinds of variations on this theme. But I guess here I'm sort of hitting at a kind of sourpuss theology or spirituality that I think that the master has, that darn you, where should you expect to be happy? You ought to be just thanking God every day that I'm your abbot. Something like that, you know. Well, you know. Well, no, I mean, well, I don't face it.

[30:58]

There have been grim monasteries, and there have been grim monks. Who thought, really, that they were doing God a great favor by, say, ruining their stomachs? You know, that kind of stuff. Exceptions prove the rule and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. People are complicated. Yeah.

[32:00]

How does it work? Close? Yeah, you're right. But as you say, how you measure it and how you... That one thing, and it leaves a lot unsaid. I mean, it's bringing a lot of questions. But, well, I guess I... I'm going to make just one general point that I think that Benedict, though, has a dynamic spirituality, you see. That he expects that the monastic life ought to bring growth. I don't think the Master expects it at all. You see, that's a big difference right there. That's a huge difference. I don't know if he did get started.

[33:18]

We have no proof that anybody ever lived that rule. You simply have that rule from Benedict of Andean. We think it was written maybe 25 years before Benedict's rule, probably also in South Italy, but we have no real proof that any house ever lived it or tried to live it. Some people have suggested that it may have been in southern France, actually, and connected up with Lorraine somehow. It's hard to say, but my feeling about it is that from internal evidence, simply the way he thinks and the kind of things he arranges, he simply could not have... I mean, human beings just simply cannot do certain things. For example, he definitely promotes

[34:22]

rivalry among the monks as to who will succeed the abbot. And he urges the monks to be on the best behavior in front of the abbot so they will impress him. And why should they impress him? So he will choose you as his successor. Now, my God, that is, that's unbelievable. I mean, that is so juvenile and you can just, you know, see the kind of seeds of rivalry and stuff that it's sowing, that it's just incredible, I think. And there's a lot of stuff like that. His feeling about the sick, he said, when the sick come to you, don't believe them when they say they're sick, they're lying. Basically, that's, I mean, that's his attitude. He said, if you want to find out, just when they're sick, feed them raw eggs. And he said, then when I'm sick, They'll do that in sick. They're not going to hang around the infirmary in those conditions. And he says, and during office, they should come to office and lay on a mat by the books while the rest are singing.

[35:30]

They can lay there and groan or something, you know. So it's just crazy stuff. Okay, we can. Well, you certainly got enough chapters on penalties. You've got 12 chapters dealing with troublesome monks or monks who are in trouble or however you want to put it. The only thing that he really, for him, the real offense that has to be dealt with is contumacy, a refusal to be humble and to obey and so forth. In other words, just simply standing up and, you know, digging your heels in.

[36:30]

But, Apparently, if you read that thing, especially like chapter 28, there's some pretty hard cases in there. These are people that, wow, I mean, they weren't soft pushovers. The Abbot is having a death, kind of a big struggle with these people, trying to figure out how to heal them and all that stuff. I think he's a realist. I think he knows that life is long. We've got lots of people in the monastery, and we're sinners. We're forgiven sinners. So all kinds of things can happen. If you read the instruments of good works, it says something like not to kill, not to commit murder. You think, well, you don't have to tell monks that. Oh? There have been monks who have killed each other.

[37:31]

And I wrote a big article one time, which I loved and everybody else hated, on prisons, the prison system, which was in place in France probably from the 8th century until the French Revolution in 1790. So there were all sorts of people that were troubled And who knows? And of course, through the Middle Ages, you realize all kinds of people joining monasteries who should never have joined. They were just pushed in there by their families. So what can you expect? But I don't think he ever flat out says, you know, you're really slipping, baby. You're on the, but it must be because, I mean, they've gone through the novitiate and all this stuff. And apparently there was hope and all this and all. The person's in real deep trouble. So, yes. Yeah, on the day you mentioned there was somebody who was... It's gone so that somebody who was complaining bitterly or... One thing after the other, like... He was on the walk to death, you know?

[38:52]

Yes. So, that kind of complaint again... Not to me, but the person may not be a bad person, but he needed more affirmation, you know? To be heard from the door, you know? Whether it's on Facebook, whether it's on Lounge, because something like motivation, people have a sense of motivation. Sometimes, it wasn't enough, you know? What he said, in my heart, because in my heart, our motivation is not God. You have motivation, like, I want to be single, you know, just to be single. That would be impossible for the poor God, you know? The best condition for him to be God. So, I think in some cases like that, it's happening, you know, depending on the circumstances.

[39:53]

But people don't have the real motivation for doing something, and they end up in the stagnant, you know? I mean, so, that kind of attitude now, or something like that, will move people with more anxiety and motivation to do something. Sure. You know, the ruler, for example, a dozen times talks about the problem of murmuring. Well, it seems to me that's kind of what you're talking about, huh? That's one word he uses. Also, several times, he's worried that the brothers not be made sad by, for example, a seller treating the brothers a certain way and saddening the brothers unnecessarily.

[40:55]

You see, you ought not to be treating people like that because it causes tristizia, and tristizia is not good. I think in Benedict's mind, obviously it's the other side of joy. It's this sadness, which doesn't need to be. There are some hard things in life that have to be endured and handled and so forth, but there's unnecessary sadness. I think he's pretty sensitive. If you look throughout the rule, there's quite a bit of concern about the morale of the community. And you know, if you've ever been in a community where, for example, I was at one time in our community, we had a lousy seller. I don't know, for whatever reasons, the guy, he just had terrible psychology. And then, so always when you went to him, it was always sort of, oh, what do you need shoes for?

[42:01]

Go barefoot, stuff like that. And, you know, I mean, he was trying to be funny, but he did, was not funny. The monks would come in and say, Claude, the students are coming next week, and we still got, we still need 25 beds for the dormitory. Have you bought them? Have you, you know, and he said, let them sleep in the barn. That's a great joke, but it's not a great joke if you are the prefect of students. You can make people unnecessarily sad. I mean, the abbot and those in charge and so forth ought to be concerned about the level of morale. Obviously, it is one of the things I'm sure that abbots worry about a lot, the morale. It's terribly important. Well, you know, what are we doing, just going through the paces here or dragging our butts around? And by the way, when I come in this place, all it takes me is just look around a little bit and I can see people, they're basically pretty joyful.

[43:11]

I don't see any real sour pusses around here, not much. I go to some communities, I think, oh, wait, where's the exit sign? I'm going to keep a look on that exit sign because some of these guys are very unhappy. By the way, I might just say this, though, that, like I say, life gets very long, and some people really do get trapped in the monastic life for various reasons, and they find themselves at 50, 60, 70, quite unhappy, almost systematically unhappy, but they must stay, and you need to live with them, and so you find yourself living sometimes with some brothers who really are who are quite unhappy persons, and well, it's no fun, because you kind of know it. You know this person is truly quite unhappy, and there's nothing I can do for him, really. It's a special kind of a cross.

[44:13]

We have one monk, for example, who was so upset by the changes of Vatican II, that at an age of about 50, he tried to leave and to live in the world, and he couldn't manage it. He couldn't manage it. He had to come home with his tail between his legs. And ever since, I think he feels that he sort of has no home. And so, you know, he's got a certain kind of tristizia, which maybe only God knows, but there's the Bell brothers, Father, you gave me this in the morning. I want to thank you very much for your presence here and for all that you've shared with us. Obviously, you want experience, and you've told us in a row. We look forward to reading your commentary on things out here. And we'll be following your writings and your further studies.

[45:15]

Therefore, I want to ask you I just wanted to comment very briefly on the fact that today I received a couple of comments in which the God of Ways said, the title of his article is, do we have to send a message as well? Do we have to send a message? Yes. One of the message codes is... With that, I thank you for coming.

[45:48]

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