I didn't plan to talk at all, but I did talk a lot. So are there any infoldings or outfoldings you can offer? You're not offering, you're intersecting. Intersecting. Yes? Yes. with this state of mind or consciousness that we considered imaginal and sinking into sleeping and... Vielleicht auch beim Sitzen.

[01:20]

And maybe also in sitting. Ja. Wie ist denn das Aufmerksamkeit? With free floating attention or... Ja. Und da gibt es ja noch zwei... And there are two different kinds that I'm beginning to distinguish. There may be many different kinds, but the two that I know. So Andrea spoke about getting stuck. And the opposite would be maybe this feeling of being trapped within oneself. And maybe the opposite of that would be something like to be in a sense of compassion with oneself.

[02:26]

A description or circumscription for that would be the word sweetness. or kind of vibrating, shining, or something like that. Wow. Okay. Yes, so there we might actually have a possibility of decision, or a possibility of distinction between the two possibilities of struggle, of effort, and the possibility And so maybe there is something we can distinguish about a sense of contracting and where there's also effort or something like effort and contraction and the other a sense of suspending or devotion or letting go or that kind of gesture.

[03:44]

This is something that you find in your own experience. And you said something much similar to this, about resonance. Do you want to share any observations? It was easier to express it with lunch. Yes, there's just me there. It would be interesting to explore how these different physical equivalents of this resonance are.

[05:00]

I would be interested in that. I have such a deep... So, it would be interesting to explore differentiation in the experience, the bodily equivalent of resonance in a meeting, in an encounter, when there is a feeling of resonance. For me, that feeling of resonance, let's say, with another person, for instance, is still kind of vague or diffuse or something.

[06:06]

And to have some sense of steps or differentiation in that, that's something I would like to explore. Someone else has something resonant to contribute? It's important to top it because much of Sangha life, Sangha practice life, He's designed to create a kind of resonant field that's palpable for the participants. Yes, and as Siegfried said, it's actually a kind of oscillation.

[07:18]

And I think part of the... I get tired of using the word yogic, but I don't know what else to say. Part of the yogic confidence or sensitivity is not to need a signal, an experience to come into the level of consciousness. I understood the words, but not the meaning. In other words, she said she had a vague feeling, or sometimes she has a not-so-precise feeling, that there's some kind of resonance there.

[08:42]

But she described it as vague. Okay. So part of this yogic sensitivity is that you don't have a sign. Yeah, much of practice is to is noticing and to trust what you're noticing even if the signal is rather weak. It took me actually many years to really realize this. So that you notice something like this.

[09:43]

And then you say, maybe consciousness is ready to notice this, but I've got a signal that's happening. That makes sense. Yeah? Go ahead. It makes sense in German, please. Because part of... of seeing consciousness as a construction is to also see consciousness as an obstruction. And some things don't quite rise to the level that consciousness can notice them. But if your confidence, if you have a sense that consciousness is also an obstruction,

[10:58]

And part of this is about part of this practice is about noticing boundaries. Now, Zen practice often is described as without stages. But actually, how could it not have stages? It definitely has stages. But there's a kind of, it's the word phasic, you don't speak about it, even to yourself. But you sense that there's a larger presence there because you feel the boundaries of consciousness. Now, I'm an inveterate reader of phenomenological literature.

[12:28]

I can't stop doing it. But I'm not a scholar. I don't say, well, this one said that, and I compare it to this. I just read it for pleasure. Yeah, and I read for ideas and ways of saying things and stuff. But all in all, I would say traditional phenology, particularly in the early days, Aber alles in allem würde ich sagen, dass die traditionelle Phänomenologie vor allem in den früheren Zeiten, in Anfangstagen, accepts what the senses offers us.

[13:52]

Dass sie akzeptiert hat, was die Sinne uns anbieten. Usually you're longer than I am, and this time you were shorter. So, with a kind of assumption that we all probably see things more or less the same way. Yeah. But, and I think here, Buddhism offers new dimensions to phenomenology or additional dimensions. The senses are like a keyboard. And phenomena plays on the keyboard of your senses. Yeah, and then we don't just have klavier, is that how you say it?

[15:18]

Well, it depends which metaphor you're going to end up going with. Klaviatur is a piano keyboard. Yeah, klaviatur. But also we have the many keyboards, multiple keyboards of organs. Oh dear, yeah, that's different. So what practice can do, and what reconstructing consciousness can do, phenomena is not going to be pure. it's going to come to you through the music of the particular keyboard you offer. Since I was a child, I've always liked double-winged or quadruple-winged dragonflies. And this pond has a whole bunch of them cavorting over the water.

[16:37]

And I've always wondered, what keyboard is the dragonfly playing? For example, if you really begin to embody the world as activity or as interactional interdependence, Zum Beispiel, wenn du die Welt wirklich als Aktivität oder als wechselwirkende Abhängigkeit betrachtest.

[17:47]

Entschuldigung, verkörperst. I'm keeping this in the categories we've developed over the last few years. Und ich bleibe da jetzt mal in den Kategorien, die wir über die letzten Jahre hinweg entwickelt haben. Because the sensorial keyboard which sees the world as entities is not the same as the keyboard which sees the world as activities. So if we try to kind of fool around with these metaphors It's not just that the oscillation of a certain resonance you might feel with a client or a person or even right now in this room. it's not only that it may not reach the level of clarity of conscious knowing, noticing and knowing, Es ist nicht nur so, dass die vielleicht nicht die Klarheit des bewussten Wissens oder Erkennens erreichen kann.

[19:16]

But the sensorial world and the interpersonal world may be playing now on a keyboard that you've only half developed. Sondern dazu kommt auch noch, dass die Sinnes... The sensorial world, oh yeah, interpersonal world. The interpersonal sensorial world, let's say that. But by noticing the half-present keyboard, new keyboard, You begin to create that keyboard by noticing it. So, I mean, it's in simple ways, say that you are with somebody, a client, or just here in this group.

[20:31]

If you kind of withdraw attention from consciousness and bring it to some place in the body, you may feel the oscillation or resonant presence in a new way. Whoa! I was just going to say a couple words. Look what happened. But that's because I'm really trying to speak about this all with a craft. And a craft is like We're a potter. Where exactly do you put your hands? And how is your back when you hold the pot that's turning? So if she were an apprentice potter, for instance, And she's working on a wheel.

[21:54]

And I'm supposed to be her teacher. While her hands are on the pot, I might look at her and I might tap her back slightly because her back changes, the pot will change. But that's not something you can say in words. It's really not descriptive. You have to sort of like, a little bit like that. Okay, somebody else? Yes, Hans. It's nice that you're here. What I've been experimenting with for some time now.

[23:10]

And the best I can best verify it within a therapeutic context. When I have a patient sitting in front of me, I anchor myself in breast, body, mind. And focus a little more on the exhalation. And I focus a little more on the exhalation. And what I noticed, and for me that was a rather significant, a huge discovery, is that one is that I bodily release or something. and that I open a spiritual space for myself that I can describe as an intermediate space.

[24:37]

and that I open a mental realm that I could describe as an in-between space. In-betweenness somehow. Und ein Raum wo ich zu keiner Seite hin tendiere. a space in which I do not tend to lean in any direction. And to let myself drop into that space of awareness was a step in which to not actively do something where I remember that I tried to work in a poetic way, just to do nothing, to let myself fall into this inner spiritual space, which I perceive as in between, and then feel an opening of the space.

[26:08]

which I think in the past I would have tried to do some good therapeutic work at that point, but now I'm learning to really simply not do anything. And through that I feel an opening of space, of this in-between space. This is a space that I don't perceive as thought, but rather as a body-spirit tree that I perceive as a resonance body. And that's a space that I don't perceive as a mental space, but I feel it as a bodily mind resonance space. And do you feel that the client is affected or present to what you're feeling? Yes. It doesn't affect me.

[27:17]

and he says, doesn't work with everyone. This I've noticed. But it is a common space that I open and where I also learn to really But it is the mutual space that I'm opening up and I'm learning to consciously open it. Mein Erleben ist Only the common being in this room has a healing quality. It is a density and a closeness. And as if in this room something comes out of itself and maybe reorganizes,

[28:24]

And my experience is that just being in this space together has a healing quality. It is as if through being present in that space, something can find itself or reorganize itself. I used to... People, a practitioner would come and talk to me. And I could understand pretty well what their problem was. You know, another westerner. And I, you know, had some understanding of psychology. And the person would But I would have no idea what to do about the person's problem. And I would say, they would say they'd like to see Sukhiroshi, and I'd say, okay, and I'd arrange for them to go see Sukhiroshi.

[29:27]

And then they'd come out and they'd say, oh, I really felt understood. And then I'd talk to Sukershi later and he'd say, what's going on with that guy? So my understanding didn't help that much. But his ability to just be present with the person in a way they just weren't used to made them feel healed. Okay, and I think it's nearly bread time, but I have time for you, always. Don't bow too much, just talk.

[30:47]

But thank you. I would like to join this again to the idea, to the term of a concept. In my work, when I think about it, I must first In my work, to just make it brief, I first of all have to empathize or feel empathized with my client. Yeah. I have to first of all just feel what they want because they oftentimes can't or don't want to express it clearly. And if things go well, then I can empathize and then I'll have something like what I call an intuition.

[31:59]

And it works well when I receive an image. What happens to me is I do receive an image that's strong and stable. But then if I want to do my job well, then I have to translate this image into words. I have to deliver something that's cognitive or conceptual. A non-conceptual resonance that I have to respond to conceptually.

[33:03]

Yes. I'm glad we're all familiar with this territory. Because it's a real, much more satisfying and subtle way to be in the world. Now, after the break, I would like to break the news. that I hinted or suggested to Nicole, to say something about how she came ashore and deconstructed consciousness. And if you speak about something else, that's all right, too. Okay. Thank you very much.

[34:04]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_77.15