Simply, to get ourselves into this, we have to explore all the different things you just mentioned. It's just a process of sorting it out. And that's part of mindfulness practice. To sort out what you're bringing attention to. Okay, but would you accept, if you have a problem with the word function, would you accept that self is an activity? So, because if self is not an entity and is not permanent, we have to have some way to refer to it.

[01:05]

So if I call it activity, is that okay with you? All right. But it's not all activity. It's certain kinds of activity. And those certain kinds of activity are defined through its functioning, its function. Now, one of the Functions of self, as Buddhism understands self, is to be a different self in each situation. And to notice that. People certainly notice they're a different person at work than they are at home. Which causes some interesting legal problems.

[02:07]

You're a crook at work and an honest person at home. So maybe we shouldn't put the person in prison, but just confine them to their house. Maybe we shouldn't put the person in prison, but just confine them to their house. behave quite well at home. Decent, honest person. We have the reverse. Some people should be confined at work and never let go home. Because they're abusive at home. Who are we punishing, the body or the self? What do we think a human being is? Actually, the legal definitions have a lot to do with what we ourselves think a human being is.

[03:21]

our criminal system certainly assumes a permanent self. When you imprison somebody for 20 years, you're assuming a permanent self. Okay, so let's say activity with a function. I left my watch upstairs. Do you know what time it is? Okay. Christian, what time are we supposed to have lunch? Okay. That was yesterday, but it could be today, too. Okay. Okay. I want to share how I understand this self.

[04:36]

I have the feeling that there is the self and then there is a part of it and that's the ego. And since some years I can distinguish between these two, and when there are certain decisions, I can also have kind of a dialogue or conversation between these two parts. And very often it's the case that the ego wants to have it more comfortable and says, okay, don't do that. But I have the feeling that this self is larger and bigger and stronger than the ego.

[05:48]

And most of the time it's the case that the decision is made according to what the self wants. und ich empfinde dieses Selbst so fast wie ein Bungelpaar mit seiner Affekatenpaarung. Yeah, and I experience somehow this self like a rubber band with a hook, like for fishing. And it's as if this self would have some kind of intention, as if it wants to draw me somewhere. That's one thing. And I had an experience, my husband and I, we loved each other bodily.

[06:56]

And then I suddenly saw the face and the temple, my husband's temple. But at the same time it was... I didn't really look at him. And at the same time I had this feeling that my husband and I completely disappeared. I don't know what it is really, what disappeared. But on the other hand, But at the same time I also saw an image or a picture of myself.

[08:30]

And it's hard to describe this picture. And this picture is the same, is identical with another picture, a different picture. There was a time when I looked at a certain object. Underneath this object, the object again appeared. And my question is, And I know that in this situation I lost something. And I want to know whether what I lost is this self. Does saying self sometimes melts into or disappears and comes back?

[09:47]

Does that cover what you're experiencing? . The feeling was as if something melted away. Yeah. Sounds good to me. Klingt für mich ganz gut. I'm happy to melt anytime. Ich bin froh, irgendwann wieder zu schmelzen. But it also sounds to me like... Yeah. Yeah. Memory, let me go back to another point that I was earlier.

[10:49]

Memory is woven on the loom of the self. Memory is also woven on the loom of the senses. Now, Damasio, who wrote a book on consciousness, talks about a core consciousness, created through the senses. and a knowledge consciousness or a knowing I would say a knowing consciousness that's created through familiarity with the world and an autobiographical consciousness that should be self okay Now, I haven't read his book very carefully.

[11:55]

But he is a scientist, and I think he thinks, it was quite a while ago I looked at it, I think he thinks you can measure brain states according to these three. And my point last night in speaking about this real-time imaging of the mother and child's relationship brain imaging or limbic system imaging, so forth. Is to say that I was is to say that we're not just talking about a shift in attitudes, we're talking about a biological shift too through practice.

[12:59]

The structure of consciousness is also connected to the structure of the brain and nervous system and so forth, according to what lights up and what doesn't. Where are the connections? I think you can say that when we change our habits, we also change our biology to some extent. Now I have often said that in biology, Zen and Yogacara Buddhism, and in yoga culture in general, all states of mind or modes of mind have a physical component, physical aspect. And all sentient physical states of physical experiences have a mental component.

[14:34]

So Zen practice is rooted in the idea that you can feel your states of mind. Now, what is that like? Well, it's a little like whistling. What do I mean by that? You're trying to whistle. Okay. I can't whistle very well, I can't sing, et cetera, but I'm trying to act the fool. But I have discovered that I can hit certain notes by shaping my lips a certain way. And if I'm whistling some simple song, Like I was whistling the first song I ever learned.

[15:46]

You are my sunshine, my only sunshine. You make me happy when skies are grey. Go ahead. You'll never know, dear, how much I love you. Please don't take my sunshine away. Okay, your lips learn the particular tongue. And every time I don't have to shape my lips and discover the tongue. My lips remember the tongue. So I don't have to experiment. Where's the tongue? You like that? So just as my lips remember particular tones, your body can remember certain tones of mind. Okay. So going back to where I was, I said that memory again is woven on the loom of the self.

[17:09]

And memory is woven on the loom of the sense. And memory is also woven on the loom of things as they is, as they are. Now we could talk about this now of being in the dark as is-ness. Okay, yeah, yeah. And we should have every now and then three cheers for the translator when he accomplishes something. All right. I'm still speaking to you. Now, our experience is also

[18:32]

woven on each separate sense. And it's woven on the loom of is-ness as well as here-ness. Now, what consciousness normally does, the job of consciousness, again, Not a function of the job. is to, again, establish a predictable, cognizable world. And the consciousness is the territory of the self. Okay. Okay. But there's these other memories.

[19:46]

This other territory. Well, let me go back. Continue with the job of consciousness. So the job of consciousness is to exclude other modes of mind from consciousness. So when you wake up, the job of consciousness is to make you forget your dreams. You have to make a special effort to remember a dream. Okay, now one of the things that happens, I said, does self continue through the night? One of the aspects Well, who are you when you're sleepwalking?

[20:51]

We can ask some silly questions like that, but it actually gives us a feel for something. Who are you when you're sleepwalking? Okay. So if the job of the consciousness is to exclude other modes of mind, so that you don't So that you forget your dreams when you wake up, mostly forget them. Okay. What happens when you start to meditate? Is you begin to notice, here's the image I had from a child that stayed with me. I'd mention this every now and then. As a kid, I always had to wash the dishes. And I particularly liked somehow, for some reason, getting a glass and looking through the suds at the silverware.

[22:12]

We'd finish eating at 7, and at 8 o'clock I'd still be washing dishes. Where are you, Dickie? Well, perfect. 30 or 40 minutes, I'm just looking at the silverware. Well, meditation, I don't know, somehow allows you to look through the suds of consciousness. And there's a lot of silverware under there. Golden bodies, silverware. Yeah. Yeah. I often say that when we meditate, we're born with waking mind, dreaming mind, and the mind of deep sleep.

[23:29]

And early Indian Buddhism, I mean early Indian philosophy before Buddhism made this distinction. And through meditation, you create a fourth mind that you're not born with. And his mind is closely connected to posture, sleeping, Horizontal posture generates sleeping mind. This posture generates a mind which is neither waking nor sleeping. nor dreaming.

[24:37]

But it enters you into dreaming mind. So it creates a fourth mind, but it's not just one mind, this fourth mind. This fourth mind is like the glass through which you see many layers of mind. And now the job of consciousness again is to is to exclude other modes of mind. But when the self melts, other modes of mind start appearing. Because itself that for the most part imprisons consciousness.

[25:41]

Or emphasizes the function of consciousness. So from one point of view it's just a function, from another point of view it's a kind of limitation. Now, these different modes of mind are to various degrees present are part of us. But they're not present to us. But through experiences of drugs, lovemaking, music, ecstasy, But through drugs, through love, through music, through ecstasy

[26:44]

often will melt, and these other modes of mind suddenly appear with their own different memories and different images appear. Now, what does practice do? Practice allows you to notice these modes of mind, to notice them separately, and stabilize them and mature them. So they don't just happen randomly when the self melts, but rather they happen with more clarity and development. So this experience you had, I would say, practice begins to sort this out and make it more stable.

[27:47]

And it's like, you know, a person who has experiences like you and in our conversation yesterday, like you and like you, are people who find themselves practicing. Something in you tells you you need to practice. And practice opens you up to these very needs. And you had something? Yes. I thought that self is something quite different. But maybe it's a wrong definition of mine. My experience is what I thought what a self is.

[29:06]

So my experience is that I am I and not somebody else or somebody different. And it's somehow like there is something stable where experience is meeting, where That's the first function of self, to establish separation. Like the immune system knows what belongs to you and what doesn't. And you know this is my voice, not a voice you're hearing in your head only. But I have the feeling that... That was an experience for me. It is not only this function, this training, so to speak, but also, you know, there is only one thing that I can do.

[30:31]

But it's not only this, it's also an experience I had. The experience is that basically it's... I'm the only existing. It's only me that's existing. It's so hard to explain. It's independent from past and future. The fact that I can experience myself as me. Okay, I like you. I like what you're saying. And I'd like to speak about that after lunch. Because I know the kitchen is waiting for us. And I'd like us to actually bring these questions more into... a mutual discussion.

[31:37]

So after lunch, I'd like us to start with what is asking each other in What is self? What is consciousness? What is my experience of self and consciousness? What are the boundaries of self and consciousness? How do other ideas fit in, like the observing self, soul, psyche, spirit? So let's sit for 22 seconds. Do I start the 22 at the first bar or the second bar? What heard the bell?

[32:53]

Who heard the bell? What heard the bell? Is it inside or outside? When do we start again? Two hours? Oh, it's quarter to one. Shall we say, shall we start at quarter to three or quarter to four or quarter to five?

[34:02]

Quarter to three. Quarter to three. Quarter to three. Perfect. Two hours is enough? Yes. Okay, that is good. Okay. Yeah, that's what I mean. The function of it requires to get you from here to Vienna. And when the car is functioning, the gasoline and the engine is going. Because my understanding is that the car is small, so it has elements which work together. No, I don't mean it that way. I mean, maybe the word function in German has a different connotation. How do you call an equation? A mathematical equation. But you could say that, yeah, in a mathematical... Since that function in the equation is the unit that makes the equation work.

[35:06]

Yeah, so that's my... But that's, in English, a very precise mathematical use of it. Yeah. It's not the usual sense of it. But it works also this way. Yeah. The function of consciousness is to establish a cognizable world. That seems to be clear. I don't know how else to say it. Yeah. Because it's directed activity. But if you say, for instance, the sentence you say, the self is a functional dynamic, so it's very open and it allows this connotation. But another thing. I would be interested in, maybe you can say something about the difference between belief and trust, because you said, okay, there is no belief in... Oh, ask me that. That's quite interesting there, ask me. Okay. It's such a nice day and we're lucky to have this fairly clear skies.

[36:43]

Yesterday we were lucky to have beautiful pouring rain blowing in the wind. And he's looking up because he almost got rained on yesterday. So I'd like us to break into, I don't know, small groups. Let's see. So maybe six. Oops. I think we should do it in six small groups. Or five. Five. Okay. Please. It's too quiet. It's too quiet. It's not so... And I'd like you to consider what is the territory of consciousness?

[37:50]

What is the process of self? Both as you experience it. And what experiences have you that either support or go beyond consciousness and self? Let's leave out support. What experiences have you that go beyond Also lassen wir das weg mit dem unterstützen, welche Erfahrungen habt ihr, die nicht in das jenseits des gewöhnlichen Bewusstseins gehen, oder das gewöhnliche Selbst, oder darüber hinaus. So what is the territory of consciousness and the process of self? And experiences that seem to go beyond life? Okay, thank you.

[39:10]

And then after we finish, we'll have a break and then we'll have some discussion. Okay. One, two, three, four, five, six, Yes, come in to the side. So you're going to walk around with the bell?

[40:30]

I'll do something. I'll figure it out. You may see me on top of the building. You have to figure out outside a location where you can talk. Good. Okay. Okay. Our meal is at 6. Yeah. Oh, what do you wish? What is it scheduled? It's not scheduled. We are making it. Not scheduled. 6. 6. 6.30. Should we make it 6? 6.30. 6.30? Okay. Okay. 6.30. Ah, yeah, will you please share with me your discussions, some of it at least.

[41:34]

Oh, a brave person. Good. We have quite a wide room, and we have a discussion, so I'm trying to give it some shape. Why don't you speak German? German, yeah. OK. You can give some of the questions. Some very exhaustive discussion, and it was in good form, and it was also very interesting to see. How can we have a grip on this? I'm sorry. experience with this kind of, and it was not very well said.

[42:41]

We had this feeling that they are conflating this, and they are not easy to separate. And then we came to this idea that the celibates are some hoist, I should think, and it's important otherwise we would be flooded with many impressions and it would be very disturbing that we don't understand that and there is here which is not necessary. What does this mean?

[44:00]

And what about this experience, which was beyond this self-restriction? In the beginning we talked a lot about, I think, our experiences, and the feeling of great love, of being liked, an expression of love. The feeling of love, a person is for one, but for the other side. And there were other instances where the choices of the other interworld experience made this experience when garbage were somehow frightening. So in this kind of experience, the lack of learning itself is somewhat frightening.

[45:44]

It's a lack. It's something just like that. Yep. And then can we somehow agree that it's not only about these big experiences, the negative or positive? When are we having these melting experiences also, for instance, when we have a good meal or a good glass of wine? Okay, that was good. Thank you. Yes.

[47:07]

So we got this. I want to add something to that. You got this. You were in the same group? Yeah. So we got this. feeling that Zen practice offers techniques to enter in this melting process. So it's structured. Yes, it's structured and secure so that you don't feel completely lost and overwhelmed. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay. Oh, you look like you might speak.

[48:26]

So our discussion was not so uniform, it was not so coherent like this group seemed to be. But we had a discussion about when we describe experiences which go beyond our consciousness. Self, yeah. Then there is a kind of experiences which somehow enrich you as if it would open up. And then on the other hand there are experiences which threaten the self.

[49:48]

So what I would be interested in is why, although in both cases we go beyond the self, in one case it's threatening and in the other case it's enriching. Maybe it's because in the rich... So in the first case, it would be the case that the self is enriched. And in the other case, it's somehow as if it would be destroyed. Do you want to add something? And also there was the example of what happens to Selig as I turn away.

[51:00]

Yes, please. It was also the question of what is Selig in the night. What happens to Selig in the night? My experience is that you wake up during the night and you are confused and you can't really look at yourself where you are exactly at the stage and understand who you are and come straight to sleep. So that's not the case. I wouldn't be completely surprised if you are. There is somehow a subliminal tone continuing during the night, and where is it localized? And in which connection, where is the connection between this subliminal tone and self-awareness? Watching Sophia.

[52:16]

She's trying to create a predictable, cognizable world. And she does seem to lose it when she sleeps. And when she wakes up, What about myself? She loses when she wakes up. I mean, I'm not her, so I don't know exactly. But when she wakes up, sometimes she's very lost. And there seem to be random thoughts that come up, like, I'm not supposed... I'm working in a room. She's not supposed to go in the room I'm working in. She does, but, you know... So she'll do something like come to the door and then start to weep, I can't go in there.

[53:18]

And it's like it becomes she can't go anywhere. And it really does seem to me and to Marie-Louise that she loses sense of a predictable world when she sleeps. This is what I mean with spatial orientation. changing direction in bed and losing orientation. Well, I understand what you mean, yeah. We maintain it quite well, but a baby, I think, loses it. She doesn't feel like she's part of the world.

[54:23]

She's conscious, but she loses the ability to... Be in a world that's understandable. And, yeah, well, let me say, quite a few people, including the famous Dr. Edward Konze, who, you know, his work is a Buddhist skull. And he has a, in one of his books, he has what I'm convinced is the turning kind of sort of realization experience for him. Which is that he had an experience that he writes about, which strikes me

[55:29]

as being a realisational experience for him, where he wakes up in the night and suddenly feels himself against a background of emptiness. And of meaninglessness. And he had to find some way to come back into some kind of meaning or place in the world. And this shift led him into writing his books and things like that. And I think his understanding of meditation is rooted in this experience. His understanding of meditation is not very good, but I think it's rooted in this experience. So anyway, all I'm saying is I think we can lose it at night.

[56:49]

But mostly we don't. But you have some reservations, God. She loses her identity towards herself somehow. She can't really be lost in a really painful psychological space. Do other parents have this? Yes. So we grown-ups are more well trained to... Yeah, we've learned to cover it. I would like to... Yes, please. The parents are... No, it's not about... Oh, okay. It's an own observation. I was traveling a lot in the first quarter of this year, and so I traveled to Scotland, to Japan, and to... somewhere else, I forgot. But then you wake up in this terrible... You were lost.

[57:52]

Yeah. Where was it? But you are, and probably that's an experience you have yourself too, and you are in a hotel room and you wake up and you are only for three days on this trip. And then it needs some time to find out where am I. So I think it's not a consciousness which is going from the evening to the morning. It's more being trained or a convention. I know, okay, this is my familiar bed. I'm sleeping in this bed. This is this room. It's like Tuesday. It must be Detroit. Right. But it's not. It needs some time to find out where am I. Oh, I'm... So I think it's more conventional. I try to only remember one thing when I'm in a new place. What's the path to the bathroom? Because in the middle of the night if I have to get up, I have to figure out which way is it.

[59:00]

Yes, but I want to say one thing first. You asked a question is one has experiences that seem to be other than or transcend, go beyond self. And you asked a question in regard to that. Why do some of these experiences enhance the experience of self, or widen the experience of self, and why do some threaten the experience of self? Okay. What's the difference between the two experiences?

[60:02]

What would be an example of one that threatens and an example of one that... So an experience which widened my experience was during a session. I had the experience that I went through a past, my mind. Went through? Walked through? Literally walking through? Okay. And behind that, when I went through, walked through the mind, there was this, it's not possible to describe it, but it was a very pleasant feeling.

[61:25]

Yeah? Yeah. And it vanished very quickly. And a threatening experience I had? Now this was not the young Sashin, the other one. It was at home. Yeah. So I said and suddenly I had this feeling as if there would be a sea monster. It's a strange way to describe it, but something very strong. A very mighty being.

[62:37]

And I always had to struggle to keep myself, to keep my integrity so that I'm not overwhelmed by this monster. Or a monstrous being. I imagine you're sitting in these large mouth and teeth, you know, dripping saliva comes out of them. It was only an image, it was. Well, I've had experiences like that. Well, I could spend some time and try to say why I think they're different or what's happening is different. But I think for now it's sufficient to just say we have both. And both are parts of practice, stages of practice. Yes.

[64:08]

Actually, it didn't come up to my mind when we sat together in our group, why people were relating. So that's Deutsch, or not? Deutsch, please, bitte. I didn't say that in my group, but now I recall a complete loss of consciousness in my head. The loss of self. So I went into the woods and relatively quickly. And after one hour I turned around and go back because my knee hurts and go back. And I'm in the hunting forest, an area where there's hunting. And a jeep with workers is coming and asking me what I'm doing here.

[65:11]

And suddenly I don't know who I am, why I'm here. And that took time. What's my name? And at last it was millions. I know I got into my car. I knew where the skin was. And I thought, I tried to think why I'm here. And what I wanted to do. And for 10 minutes, I was in April. And it was very frightening. And I even put to paper what I knew. I couldn't say, for example, I wanted to say, I'm only going with invitations now. From now on, I'll only walk with invitations. Something to put in your shoe to walk better when you're getting anywhere. And I couldn't find a word for that. I wrote sandals. And so I have the written confirmation that I was gone for 10 minutes.

[66:12]

That was unbelievable. And I'm obviously suppressed. So I seem to have oppressed it because we were talking about that for three quarters of an hour and I didn't come up with that. Yeah, I understand. It was really that was utter fright. I think it was the most frightening thing in my life. Now, that's interesting. It confirms for me this sense that we really have to establish continuity from moment to moment, or we feel deeply threatened. And that's interesting for me, because I think that confirms that we really have to maintain our continuity from moment to moment, because otherwise it is very deeply disturbing and threatening. Yeah. What surprises me, actually, is that more people don't have this experience.

[67:15]

Well, you might forget it or be embarrassed about it. There was a woman teacher, a fairly well-known teacher, not of Zen, but of something similar. Who was at Johanneshof this year. And she had a similar experience to yours for about half a day. And it took quite a while for her, most of a day, most of a week in fact, to really put her world back together. So we give meaning, I mean, the way we give meaning is a very subtle and fragile thing. And I think when we do something like practice, something so radical as seriously practicing then and doing sashins, I'm surprised this loss of a structured meaning doesn't happen more often.

[68:32]

But I think when you really do establish Continuity through, as I've said, breath, body and phenomena. You can let structured meaning go all the time and keep coming back to it. But this is a concern of mine. Because if I'm teaching in a monastic context, I have confidence in... I'm so fully in the midst of tradition, I have complete confidence in what I'm doing, that I'm doing the best I can.

[69:49]

Now, when I'm practicing, So often with adept lay practitioners, I worry that there aren't certain points in the progress of development of one's practice when you need the monastic structure. So I very gradually, over the years, particularly here in Europe, where I teach more laypeople, practice with more laypeople, I'm always testing the waters. I bring up a teaching in a kind of introductory form or mild form, and I see how people feel about it, and then I give it more depth, and then that, you know.

[71:01]

Yeah, because this practice does require Confidence and courage. Existential courage. Yeah. But you all give me confidence that it's okay. And you regularly draw more out of me than I expect to talk about. What are you smiling about? Oh, you do? I always go back where I'm most challenged. Also ich gehe immer dorthin, wo ich am meisten herausgefordert werde.

[72:08]

What I just talked about, that was very much the issue we talked about in Harvard. The question was raised. For me, the practice is always a process of destruction. Destruction, destroying. Deconstruction. A part of Brexit. A part of Brexit. And we asked ourselves how we can do that when we come into experiences we cannot control.

[73:29]

Yeah. And we thought that simultaneous process is starting with doing salsa and getting in contact with the breath and with the body. But that it's possible that we can always do this act of keeping the balance. I would be interested whether you see it also this way or whether there's a connection between that, whether there's this connection, this destroying and others.

[74:46]

So whether it's so important to develop this basic practice. So you're asking me, do I see it in this way, that it's a balance? Can you make it more specific? Do I see what in this way? Maybe. The importance of the connection between body and mind. Yes. I agree it's important. What are you asking now? And because of that, it becomes a sort of

[76:00]

Yeah, I think that's right. That's right. If you're... It's a dangerous place to be only structured What do you mean by mind? Sorry. Just say it that way. Use the word mind. It's a fragile place. So I think I know a number of men, for instance, who basically, when they retire, they have nervous breakdowns. Because their mental structure has depended upon reinforcement from daily life.

[77:18]

Okay. So one of the reasons one of the advantages, believe it or not, of the difficulty in learning to sit and the pain and so forth, it slows down the transformational, transformative practice, until you're strong enough and stable enough to handle it. And you do want to, I mean, from this point of view, from a psychological point of view, You want to make practice difficult that you have to go through a considerable amount of pain.

[78:19]

Because when you learn to finally just sit through pain and let it go, it's not painful anymore. Because the pain is mostly mental. You're not actually being damaged. There's no wounds or anything. When you learn you can just sit through that, it's a precious psychological strength. You can sit through illnesses, tremendous amounts of stress and so forth. So it's a shortcut to psychological strength. And you really feel, I mean, you become at some point basically fearless.

[79:20]

Yeah, go ahead. I would like to add something. That's so interesting for me. This point is very interesting for me. Because it seems that this showed in my own experience. In the very beginning, when I only sat for a short time, and there was such a thing with pain, And because there was no other possible, I had the feeling that I let loose of the pain. And in this moment it was very joyful.

[80:50]

It was a beautiful moment. It was as if I would dissolve, but only for a very short time. And instantly there was panic. And in that moment there was again a break in pain. and now I have been sitting for two or three years and I can let loose of the pain and the panic doesn't come back yeah yeah yeah it's true But I hate to be a teacher who says, you know, okay, now we're gonna create a lot of pain for you. It's the same in German and English. Yeah, but it's only written to you. So I don't have to do it, though.

[81:58]

I don't have to make this decision. I just have to do sashins in the traditional way. Yeah. So I try to gauge a sashin for laypeople so that it is... possible to do it. It doesn't require superhuman effort. So I don't emphasize sitting all night and things like that. Although that's a choice one can make. But I try to, the session should be difficult enough that you have the kind of experience you've had. Again, One of the things that monastic practice is designed to do, it should disrupt all your basic habits.

[83:06]

of when you get up, when you eat, and so forth. At the same time, everything should be taken care of for you. So you don't have to think. So you don't have to worry, am I going to be able to eat, or when do I go to sleep? It's just there, you just follow the schedule. You abandon yourself to the schedule. We talked about this last week at Johanneshof. Abandoning yourself or Giving yourself over for a week or a month or three months to a schedule is part of the exploration of opening into an imperturbable mind.

[84:25]

Das ist ein Teil der Erforschung, wie man einen unstörbaren Geisteszustand schaffen kann. Und in einer gösterlichen Situation möchtest du fähig sein, eine Erfahrung zu haben, wie Regina gestern gesagt hat. She goes to the grocery store. She hasn't brought her shopping list. So I may exaggerate a little bit. And so she half closes her eyes. walks down the aisle and lets her body tell her what to take from the shelf. And then she walks out without paying. No, no. Been arrested twice.

[85:36]

No. You've got to be able to allow yourself in a monastic situation to just stop thinking about anything and let some other functioning take over. Du musst in einem monastischen Kontext fähig sein, alles loszulassen und bereit sein dafür, dass irgendetwas anderes funktioniert und übernimmt. And this is actually in koans called great function. You let something begin to function through something that has very little to do with thinking or consciousness. It's one of the fundamental aspects of Zen practice. The most fundamental. But if you have to go to work in the morning and take care of children and make lunch, how do you do that?

[86:41]

Because you have to keep returning to ordinary functioning. Maybe you have to practice at grocery stores. And then be willing to eat whatever you happen to bring home. Okay. But what is when the pain in sasen is a sign that something is damaging your body? Then you stop. You should know the difference between when you're being physically harmed and when it's just the pain of

[87:41]

discomfort, of needing to change your posture, and so forth. And some people actually damage their legs, etc. So I always say people can sit in a chair, they can, you know, I try to make it I try to create a situation where people know enough not to cause themselves actual physical damage. And I would say that over many years now we're quite successful at that. Okay.

[88:43]

Is that all the groups? No. Where is Nancy's silent groups? Yes. Yes. You also said that consciousness and self is some kind of filter, as other groups already mentioned. And then we talked about self. That's a construct. And we had this question, who determines which kind of self is appearing in the moment? And that it's very dependent on the history and story and how it is possible to loosen this dependency on the self.

[89:54]

Loosen this, yeah. And I have also a question concerning what has been said just before that. Because I got the impression that consciousness and self are somehow like protection, protect each other, have a protective function in this world. But on the other hand, something that protects me also holds me back, limits me, restrains me. The image I had was my self is like a parachute. I'm hanging on this parachute but I cannot steer it.

[90:57]

And it's about learning to steer the parachute. And consciousness is like, consciousness are like, what is it, floats? Floats. Like floats on the sea where I can land. So that I don't fall into the mind. Don't fall into the mind? In the sea of mind. Yes. What's wrong with falling into the sea of mind? Maybe your husband's dragon is there. Sometimes couples share the same dreams, you know.

[92:06]

It's asinine, the conscious breath. So that sasa and the conscious breath can somehow replace this image of the parachute so that I can enter this sea of mind. Okay, good.

[92:23]

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