Thank you. Good to be with you. You too. I just want to pause and say that we're getting a really big echo here, and I think that we should sign out and come back in again. You know, it's not coming through to me. I don't know if anybody else is hearing it, but you're probably hearing your own echo. I'm not hearing any echo. As long as it's only me. It does echo occasionally, not all the time, but it does come through. Okay. Well, if it becomes bothersome, let's just stop and we can retry, but go on from here. Okay. Okay. Karen, you're up. Karen Sondheim. Hi, Sojin Roshi. Hi, Karen. We had a conversation once, and you said... It's a dog-eat-dog world.

[01:01]

Yes. And I understand it biologically, but I think about Buddhist practice and whether I have to participate in dog-eat-dog and whether it's okay. I mean, I think about my circumstances now, and I have a house that we've had to... bid money for long ago and I had a really good job that I had to compete for. And sometimes I feel like what I have came at the, took away, deprived someone else. You know, that what I had is at the expense of others and the inequality bothers me, but then for survival, I feel like I have to do it. So how does one live by one's vows in a dog-eat-dog world? Well, actually, it's a fish-eat-fish world.

[02:08]

Dogs are no longer allowed to roam around. But fish produce fish in order for fish to eat fish in order to sustain themselves. Everything is eating everything else. This is a world where everything is eating something, and whatever is eaten sustains those who eat them. So if nobody eats, if nothing eats, if nothing, then we can say goodbye to the world. Everything is eating something. So dogs don't really eat dogs. Fish, though, eat fish. And the Buddha talked about this. He said the big fish eat the little fish, eat the little fish, eat the smaller fish, and so forth. That's not Buddha's world.

[03:09]

That's a metaphor for the Saha world. The ordinary world. In Buddha's world, Buddhists are very careful about what they eat. So you should be careful about, you know, if you don't want to hurt anybody by not having your house, then go live on the street. But you don't want to do that, right? You share your house with somebody. You don't just live alone. You share your house. And if you... When you practice the Buddha way, living in your house is the way to express your practice. And that helps people around you, knowingly or unknowingly.

[04:09]

When we, you know, there's something about your daily activity and people see you in your neighborhood and you see them and you maybe talk to them. Without trying to do anything, just doing your practice, influences the people around you. So, we have sympathy for those who have less than we have. And, you know, Buddhist monks only eat one meal a day. I mean, big monks, what we call them. The big monk has nothing except the robes and the bowl. and beg the meal, the noonday meal, and that's the only meal they eat. And in the evening, they have a medicinal meal. We do that when we have our sasins, except that we eat two meals, breakfast and lunch.

[05:18]

And then the third meal is a medicine meal. just something that takes the edge off. So we eat carefully and mindfully. And, you know, we bow. We say something usually, not every time, but at some point in the day when we eat a meal, we acknowledge that we're taking the lives of other beings. But you have to do that. We have to do it mindfully and carefully and with compassion. And sometimes we say, other beings are offering themselves to us. We think that we're taking. In some sense, we're accepting various plants.

[06:22]

and foodstuffs are offering themselves to us. And by offering themselves to us, we encourage them to grow. So that's a very interesting symbiotic relationship that we have with plants. We eat them and they make themselves very flashy so that we will, oh, look at the beautiful tomatoes, right? And so they're offering themselves to us by being so kind, so flashy, and we eat them so they continue growing. That's, you know, something like that. So it's a symbiotic relationship that we have with what we eat and what we relate to. So if you, if there are If you have something, only you can have it.

[07:23]

Somebody else can't have it unless you give that to them. So we have to accept that. We have this, and then the next person doesn't have this, but they may have a similar one, right? You have an avocado. They have an avocado, but you have your avocado and they don't have your avocado. You know what I mean? Yes. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Mike, can you say something? Unmute yourself. Hi. Can you hear me? Is there sound? There is sound. Okay. Good.

[08:26]

Oh, Mike. Yes. Mike McVay. Yes. Yeah. But I don't hear you, Mike. Are you unmuted? I am unmuted. You're muted? I'm unmuted. Oh, you're unmuted. Okay. Can you hear me? Speak. Yes. I do hear you. All right. You shared a little poem with me a few weeks ago. The cool breeze blows through the empty hall. I've thought about it. I've imagined it. And yet often I feel like it's more like the hot wind blows. through the world in flaming contention and delusion and disagreement and disharmony mm-hmm yes that's the other side I am I tend to be drawn to figure out what's going on no is that world

[09:48]

as real as the cool wind blows through the empty hall, or not? Well, it's real, but it's not substantial. I think about it so much then. Huh? Why do I spend so much time thinking about it? Well, because it makes your ass hot. Yes. So, you know, that hot wind is always present. It just happens to be taken up by various people at various times and they use it. The Buddhist tries to keep a cool mind, a cool head. Empty mind, cool head, warm feet.

[10:55]

So the warmth is in our feet, not in our head. The cool breeze blows through the empty hall. Your composure. Is that your dog or mine? No. That's my dog. The cool breeze. blows through the empty hill. Your great composure is what keeps you from going crazy, basically. And it's an antidote to the hot wind. So water puts out fire. fire heats up water. When your mind is totally open, totally open, it can't be destroyed.

[12:07]

So there are perennial forces in the world. One is by heat. One is by water, one is by earth, and one is by air. The four elements return to their natures, yes. Yes, and so people are attracted to the various forces that are always there. And then they ride those forces and take their karma and eventually they're destroyed but our true mind is never destroyed because it's neither born nor dies sounds a little abstract but it's so the empty hall is your true mind

[13:20]

It takes the courage to actually to face the hot wind by opening yourself and opening your true mind, empty mind. And that has a big influence on the world. The hot wind is very attractive for many people. I find myself drawn to it a lot of times. Yes, yes. So there's a saying, don't look to the right, don't look to the left, just go straight with your open mind, empty mind.

[14:40]

Don't get caught. Actually, this is the basis of all religions. He's being caught. It's not getting caught. Not getting caught, yes. Not getting caught by the hot wind. Yeah. Stay in your cool mind. Cool mind is called Nirvana. And don't lean to one side or the other. This is called Zazen. Zazen is nirvana, sitting up straight with cool mind and warm feet. So we include the warmth, but it's in our feet, not in our head. I tend to have a pretty busy head.

[15:48]

We all do, yes. My wife has to hear about it because there's no one else to talk to you a lot of the time. Well, anyway, call us up. What was that? Call us up. Yes. You know, actually, one image of that is a client had a dog who was barking, and the bark was being fed back through Zoom. The dog is barking at his own bark. That made my day. On Monday, kudo. was barking at himself. Yes. It's kind of like chasing your own tail. The world does that. Yes, the world barks at itself. Be careful. Just go straight. Yes. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Rob?

[16:53]

Hello, Sojin. Hi. Well, you may have just answered my question, but I'll ask it anyway. I recall asking you once before about getting down off the cushion, about the transition from zazen into the world and um these days it seems like from time to time i'm beset with very strong emotion as if my body is just taking control of my life and pulling me in a particular direction whether it's um fear or anger or attraction um It doesn't seem to be a mental function. It's as if the mind space is completely altered by something that's going on physically.

[18:02]

And I'm not sure what to do about that. It seems to incapacitate me. When I sit on the cushion, there's... the simplicity and because I strip away physical activity and simplify mental activity, there's the ability to see things and correspond with things in a more immediate fashion. But in these moments of heightened emotion, I don't seem to have that ability. And sometimes I go take a walk. Sometimes I try and sleep on it and let it cool off. But I just wonder if you could comment on that. What about moments when you're just overwhelmed with emotion?

[19:10]

Well, something you said made it sound like there's this bodily these bodily feelings, but you didn't think of Sazen as a bodily feeling. You know, when we sit in Sazen, the whole being is there. The whole being is there. The whole bodily sensations are all there. And we make some big effort. so that we're totally concentrated in this one act. So when we're overwhelmed emotionally, I would say, find your center, which is what we do all the time. We're always finding our center.

[20:15]

Then we have some power to deal with high emotion or high physical feelings or distractions. We don't get any traction. So I would say just go back to Zazen. We allow ourselves to get moved or distracted. And then we say, what should I do? So what should I do is, where's my center? Where's the place where I am perfectly balanced? Where's the place where I am totally harmonized? So that's what we should look for.

[21:22]

Often people are, they sit zazen, but they don't, and then when push comes to shove, they don't stay with that. They allow themselves to get distracted. And so I would say don't let yourself do that. There's the form of zazen, which is sitting on the cushion, and then there's the zazen of walking, the zazen of coming back to yourself over and over again, no matter what you're doing or where you are. So that's what we do. That is zazen. You just keep coming, you get distracted, things pull you around, and then you realize, oh, I'm getting pulled around by things. What do I do? Where do I go? What? You go to your center. You go to your breath. You go to the ultimate stillness.

[22:25]

And then you realize this is the true way. I find that when I'm sitting zazen, that ability to return is much more available to me than when I'm out in the world and particularly when I'm out in the world and when I'm grabbed by something that's very powerful and very physical. And so it's, it's, I don't feel like I have that in my toolbox. I don't have the ability to be centered. I don't have the ability to go back to the breath because I'm so overtaken by that very strong physical thing. And, um, There just seems to be, it seems like there's much more integration in Zazen than there is when I'm not in Zazen.

[23:29]

And it's harder to take that integration and bring it into daily life. If you're really practicing, there's no time when you're not in Zazen. Because Zazen is what your life is about. It's hard not to, it's hard to rethink. I can't do that, but you can do it. You really can do it. And thinking I can't do this is throwing a stumbling block because you can do it. I know I have been in situations like that and not being able to find where I can control myself or do what I feel I need to do. And there were times in my life where, in my life of practice, where I didn't feel that I could do it, I could, but I somehow, every day I sat down there, no matter what was going on, no matter what in the world was going on.

[24:46]

And it always, Somehow, if you do that over and over, you gain that power, the power to not be caught by things. Okay, I'll do more Zazen. You said it, not me. Blake, you're on. Sergeant. Hey. Good to see you. Great to see you. So I'm in the Sierras hunting for a climb at the

[25:49]

trampling all the beautiful grasses at the headwaters of various streams this weekend while you were giving your talk on the swastika. Anyway, I found the climb and halfway up the climb, I noticed the person that was belaying me, right? The person protecting me was doing things incorrectly. Oh. I'm having some headaches on various Buddhist committees that I'm on because I know the right way to do things and others don't. How... do I behave?

[26:51]

How should I behave? Or do you have advice on how to be in a situation where you probably, I probably know the right way to go, but other people don't seem to want to go that way. Do you have any advice? Well, there's something called the discussion. Okay. You know, there's no right way or wrong way. Okay. even though there is a right way and a wrong way.

[27:52]

How do I, I wanna do the right thing every time. How can I do that? Well, you make your effort and your effort sometimes just works and sometimes it doesn't. but the practice is in the effort. What makes you think that your way is the right way? I've seen it done this way before and it's worked. Well, who is stopping you? We have to work together, right? Yes. I want to, as Karen said, I want to win the bid for my house.

[28:57]

I want myself to be protected on the rope the way I want it done because I was a teacher of climbing for years. I've been on committees for years and this is the way it should be done. but I notice that this is just perhaps creating problems and perhaps the best thing is to something else, let it go. Well, I think, you know, you might have to prove that you're right. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that.

[30:01]

That can be, I don't want it to get messy. Right. But I want everybody to be safe and I want the job to get done. I'm sorry I'm asking you a hard question or a question I should probably find within myself. I'm here to hear the hard question. If it's an easy question, who cares? It's the hard questions that are the most fun. So, usually, you do what you feel is right, because what you're thinking about is in relationship to other people, right? Right. So, people notice when you're doing something right, according to them, or whether you're doing something that's not so right. So when they see that you are doing something right, they acknowledge that.

[31:02]

You don't have to do anything. You don't have to say anything. You just, this guy's on the right track. Everybody feels that. So your skill is to not not to impose what's right or wrong, but simply to act according to what's right or wrong. Yeah, and sometimes people don't see that, but mostly they do. You'd be surprised. Mostly they do. Here, people see what's right or wrong. because we're very close in our practice. And so it's something that you feel, you know what I mean? We feel each other's pressure and sweat, the way we smell, the way we do things.

[32:17]

That always works. People always acknowledge that. So sometimes you have to go along with things that you feel are not the best way to do things. But when it's your turn, you do what you feel is right. Then you'll see whether it's right or not. It has a lot to do with how, you know, we say that we get to practice through our ports, you know, through association and the ease of which we do things and confidence that we have in ourself, which extends to others.

[33:19]

So just stay in your position and just do your best. And sometimes others know better than we do. I think that you're pretty harmonious. You act in a pretty harmonious way with the rest of the Sangha. Thank you. I think promoting harmony in the sangha is the key. Thank you for that, because that very phrase has come up. Easier said than done. Yes, but it's possible to do. I'll make effort.

[34:25]

um thank you sojin and i want to say um even though i didn't hear your lecture i listened to it on the podcast and it was cathartic for me thank you to be on the outside as a person of color listening to this discussion that was really relevant to uh certainly many of the jewish practitioners practitioners of buddhism it was it brought tears So I want to thank you for that. You're welcome. And I wish you peace. You too. Okay. I don't see you as outside. Nor do I see myself as outside in one sense, in the greatest sense. Great. So let's keep working. Yes. Yes. Let's do that. Thank you. You're welcome. Sue Rocher? Thank you.

[35:29]

Sojin Roshi. Abiding teacher, for many years abiding. I don't know what to do about losing you. You abide in my heart. And I want to know how to keep you in my heart. You know, you don't lose me. I may not be around at some point, but you will not lose me. um it's impossible to lose me okay I got this New Year's Eve card from you and probably everybody did in the sangha at that point I don't know this and and

[36:54]

Your teacher abides in you and then you transform and transfer him to the rest of us. And this says, I'm not gonna read the whole thing. When you do something with a warm hearted feeling, Manjushri, the Bodhisattva of wisdom is there and there is the true you. You don't have to wonder where Manjushri is or what she is doing. When you do things with your warm-hearted mind, that is actual practice. That is how we take care of things and communicate with people. Good. Did I see that? well you said that and you said that suzuki roshi said that and there's more but this is very encouraging and so turning to those things that are encouraging i think is our practice i totally agree and from forever when i was saturday director or zendo manager co-zendo manager

[38:21]

I didn't know what I was doing. And I would come to you. I picked it up, but it was just, I think I told you at the beginning that I just wanted you to encourage me. You know, I didn't want criticism. I just wanted encouragement. And you did. So I thank you for that. That's all I can do. You're welcome. And I want to know, I started having a vision, a weird waking dream of brocade dragon fabric, of curtain, and in a huge outdoor amphitheater was a ceremony, and you and Hoson were there. And I don't know if it was a transition, Or what? I don't know what it was, but it was everybody was six feet apart and it was some sort of ceremony and I knew we were all going to screw it up, but something important was happening.

[39:32]

So thank you. If you have any encouraging words about how to look at transition and passing, I would appreciate them. Thank you. Transition. It's happening all the time. Right. So just enjoy your breath. Yeah. And transition in our sangha, in our habits, too. Yes. Yeah. So everything is going along the way it's supposed to. Okay. No. It's all going the way it's supposed to. And if you let that happen, you'd be very happy. Okay. Cheryl, you're on.

[40:33]

Good evening, Soja. Oh, good evening. Hi. Hi. I'm so glad to see you. I would like to remind you of conversations we had while preparing for my Jukai ceremony a few years ago, where we talked about living with disease and the notion of At the time I was under pressure to sit Zazen for a cure or to use my practice for something other than practice. And I've wondered if that's something that has come up for you or if it's. if it's something that is just a temptation to overlay your practice with.

[41:52]

Yeah. Well, we don't sit for any special reason other than to sit. Right. Nevertheless, we have secondary practice. benefits from Zazen. So whether or not we sit for some purpose or not, something happens. So I always feel better when I sit Zazen. And whatever our physical problems are, harmonizing is number one. because it brings your body together to deal with the imbalances inside us. So always finding our balance. I remember Suzuki Roshi saying, we're losing our balance, we're falling out of balance every moment and regaining our balance every moment.

[43:00]

That's our life. So how do we maintain our balance? And this is Zazen. Maintain the harmony and balance of our body and mind and our breath. So it certainly will not hurt you. So, you know, I think sometimes sitting Zazen is really good for my ailments. And I'm sure it is. I have no doubt that it's really good for, you know, puts me in balance with my ailments. So I wouldn't say that that's heretical. Just do it. If you want to feel that it helps you physically, just do that. No problem. Have you found cancer to be a teacher? Have I what?

[44:02]

Have you found cancer to be a teacher? Oh, yes. Not only cancer. Everything is my teacher. Everything is whispering in my ear. But, you know, I've found that the calmness of mind, not worrying about myself, not that I'm not concerned, but I'm not worrying about myself. Whatever it is, I feel that given my cancer, it's verified my practice. That's what I think. Not that it's teaching me something, but of course it is. But it's verifying my practice.

[45:03]

And that's why I feel really good about it. I can't believe how well I'm doing. It's encouraging to see you. Yeah. I have energy, you know. I wake up in the morning and I have a lot of energy. And I have energy during the day. I go to bed late at night in my new schedule, sometimes 1230. And then I get up around eight. Sometimes seven, depending. And I go about my business and I don't feel any, I don't feel sick. So what can I do, you know? Just appreciate my life moment by moment. I've been given this opportunity to enjoy my life moment by moment.

[46:08]

There is the sense that it puts things into a clear focus. Yes. Yeah. I don't know what will happen next. Not knowing what will happen next and not falling into some kind of despair or sadness or whatever. I just, you know... going along with the way it is. You can't beat that. It surprised me that Dogen, that we've lived so much longer than Dogen, who died at 64. Yes. As a figure, she died at 67. Yes. But the Abed of Aheji, the former Abed of Aheji,

[47:12]

who died a few years ago was 106. We take better care of ourselves than people used to. That's right. Something like that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing with me what you're feeling. Thank you. Dean? Hey, Sojan. Good to see you. It's been a while. Yes. I feel compelled to say, can you hear me? Can you hear me? I can hear you, but it's a little faint. Okay. That's better. Okay, good. That's good.

[48:13]

I am curious. Well, it's really good to see you. And I also want to thank Ross and Gary because even though I had this in my calendar and I had an alarm, I didn't know what the alarm was for, so I didn't pay any attention to it. So thanks to them for giving me a little nudge. So I'm curious about questions. I feel that in the past number of years, questions have even though i i seem to have a lot of them they're not i don't know if they're as important or they've taken a different role they sort of have turned into something that doesn't really need an answer just they're just things i need to live in or with or through and i don't know if with this you know, this isolation, whether that's had an impact on questions and their sort of like lack of importance.

[49:24]

I mean, they're not all unimportant. If I ask you where a bathroom is, that's really important. I want to know where the bathroom is. But there's so many that either become unimportant or I realize maybe what the answer is. So I'm curious if... questions are more like feelings and it's the nature of being human that we're always going to have feelings and does that mean questions are something that we're always going to have or if questions are more along the lines of a reaction and with more practice and more time questions will just eventually be fewer and it really doesn't I don't think it really matters to me one way or the other whether you know what way they they go or whether there are any but it's been very curious to me that there's sort of these things that pop in my head and then it's like oh yeah well so what they and it's not so what it's that

[50:42]

I recognize it, but I don't seem to need to do anything with them. Well, and so what? Is what a question or a statement? I think it's a statement. It's sort of like, it's almost like they're not useful. You know, you said in the beginning that, somewhere in the beginning, that just have the question. You don't need to have the answer. Right. Right? That's really good. I like that. Just keep answering the question because the question is something that's always coming up. Every moment is the question, what do I do now? Mm-hmm. What, what, what? What is this?

[51:42]

What is that? What is what? What's what? So that's a really good question. It's the question that is always leading you on and is never really finally answered unless you understand the meaning of the question that is always there. So the question that is always there is, what is it? And the answer to the question, this is it. Is it, right. So I guess questions will be there, and I'll just keep having them, and they'll just keep being whatever they are. Maybe there's an answer, maybe there's not, and maybe it's, yeah.

[52:42]

Yeah. You know, sometimes we have a question, and when we try to answer it, the further away it goes. And if we simply hold the question, you know, like you put the question in your pocket, it's like an old handkerchief or something. But it works on you inside. While you're, you know, you swallow the question. And then it like works inside of you subconsciously. And then one day, boom. Oh my God, answer that question. Like that. Koans are like that. You know, if you give somebody a koan sometime, they want to be able to answer it right away, you know, after you give it to them. But it doesn't work that way.

[53:45]

The koan is a ball, a hot, hot ball that you swallow. It stays there, and it just kind of, you know, it's like a piece of sand. getting into a clam, or an oyster, excuse me. And that piece of sand, at some point, turns into a pearl. So, and the oysters protects that piece of sand, and it's kind of, you know, it's an irritant. But the oyster keeps paying attention to it and finally it becomes a pearl. So that's really nice when it works like that. It's a big question and the oyster takes care of it.

[54:52]

And sometimes the question just becomes nothing because And it doesn't matter that it was, I mean, it's kind of like you put something that has a shape in your pocket and months later, this thing has no shape. And it's gone. Yes, it's really good if you answer your own question. That's the best. That is the best. When you have a question and, you know, you're not... able to deal with it at the moment but it's there and it would surprise you because getting the answer from other people is not so good because it's not your answer what about if the question just becomes it's not that it becomes unimportant but it just becomes

[56:01]

Just, yeah, ordinary. It just becomes ordinary. And so does that mean that if I had the question that I was maybe trying to grab at something? And then when it becomes ordinary, it's sort of like I just let go of it. What do you think about that one? Ordinary question is the way. What is it? That's the question of questions. What is it? Thank you, Sojourn Roshi. That works for me. Thank you for asking. Kabir? Hi, Sojourn Roshi. Hi. How are you? Well, here I am, you know, sitting half lotus on my chair. I love the beer. It looks very nice.

[57:03]

I came up with a little name for you if you don't mind, Sojin One Kenobi. Yeah, good. Yeah. So question is, healing, right? Yes. What is your take on healing? For me, at least it's sort of, it's getting in the way, the word healing. So I wanted to... What's getting in the way? The word healing, you know, healing this and healing yourself, healing the world, healing the planet, healing this. I mean, healing the COVID-19. It's just being tossed around quite a bit. So I don't know. I just wanted to see your take on that. Well, we get tired of words sometimes, right? Yeah. And, you know, I remember when I was a kid and I would say over and over, I said, bread, [...] bread. We know what bread is, right?

[58:04]

I think, bread, [...] bread. And I say it over and over, and pretty soon it lost its meaning. It just became a sound. Bread, bread, [...] bread. So when it becomes just a sound, we just let go of it. And don't worry about healing. Let healing heal itself. I think about you sometimes. And when I see all the suffering that goes on in the Middle East and in Afghanistan, where you're from, right? Yes. And how the people actually survive is like unbelievable. It's really unbelievable. And I think about your trauma and... how to how to actually deal with that how you deal with that and i i know that it really affected you a lot and um i don't know how we can help you thank you but i would like us to do that i think just by being present and revealing yourself and um

[59:29]

not holding a lot of stuff in. I think you need to be heard. So don't hold back. Healing, healing, right? What does that mean? Yeah. Right. No, thank you. I'm just... I just don't know what to say but to thank you. The community, well, I will be sharing some of that with the community on the 3rd of August, I believe. So I'll have a way-seeking mind talk. Great. That's good. But this community and my family, Dharma, I can tell you, is... The Sangha, of course, but Dharma is truly the medicine that, yeah.

[60:35]

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I remember meeting your son. He's so handsome. Oh, thank you. Yeah, he's, thank you. Yeah, he's getting taller. Yeah. And so sweet. Yeah. Thank you. So, yeah. Oh, take care until then. Thank you. Thank you. Mary Beth would like to ask a question. Sojin Roshi. I tend to get lost in absolute, I think. Not that I'm saying I'm always on this high plane, but I tend to... Panic around the world of the relative like am I gonna have enough money to retire? Am I going to have a place to live when I retire?

[61:38]

Am I taking care of my health well enough when there's things I don't do Am I taking care of the conflicts in my life? Am I working enough for social justice? Am I taking care of my computer because it's got problems all these things drive me crazy and I'll think go to bed at night and say just it's okay these things are going to change they'll be whatever they are and then i'll feel okay but then i'm like am i just self-medicating and not really facing things because i feel like if i ask the question what do i do now i'm like i don't know so you know you're going is it don't you you just told us Well, yes. Just this. Just this. But what if I do just this and I avoid everything else?

[62:41]

You have to avoid everything else when you're doing just this. You can only do five things at one time. You can only do one thing at a time. And then everything else has to be in the background. And you have to let that happen. Because otherwise, you have all these monkeys that you're carrying around on your back. And each one is saying, do me, do me, do me, do me. And then you have to have your whip. And you go, wham, get back. Back on your stools, lions. Get back on your stools while I'm doing this. And everything works out. If you let all those lions and tigers and monkeys control you, you lead a very unhappy life.

[63:45]

So even though they're there, each one has to take its place in the right order. Some things will never get accomplished. As you are accomplishing things, the list is getting longer. And then, uh-oh, this is getting, I might have to rescue myself from the list of things that have to get done. So whatever you're doing, it's just this right now. And then the next thing is just this. And the next thing it just is, you may not get everything done. We live in this, this is the nature of our lives nowadays. And it gets more and more crucial, more and more stuff. The more information we have, the more our mind is captivated. So be careful about information.

[64:52]

This is, you know, we think that information is gonna save us. But, you know, information is really nice and it's important, but it also is a taskmaster. And we get overwhelmed. So. It's the conundrum of our life. Too much, too much, too much, too much. So how do we simplify our life so that we can actually make it work without eliminating information and being able to put our attention to one thing without being anxious about the next thing.

[65:53]

And we wasted a lot of time being anxious. Really a waste of time. One thing well done leads to the next thing well done leads to the next thing leads to the next thing well done. One thing done with a lot of anxiety leads to the next thing, leads to the next moment of anxiety, leads to the next moment of anxiety. It's karma. We're creating it all the time. And then it takes over our lives. Well, I feel like I can go along for a while just saying just this, and I'll be perfectly happy and fine doing that until something comes up and I'm like, oh, I've ignored that for a long time.

[67:04]

And that's enough. I've ignored that for a long time. And I'm continuing to ignore it. Okay. Everything is calling for our attention, vying for our attention. Everything is vying for our attention. And if we allow ourselves, we can just open the floodgate of what to take care of. Everything wants to take care of you, mommy. Everything wants you to take care of it. There was an old woman lived in a shoe. She had so many children and she didn't know what to do. So your shoe is really tight.

[68:17]

Okay. Yeah, give yourself a break. Okay. Yeah, take responsibility for you. Take a vacation. I am. Be good to yourself. There's a lot of things that just wait. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Excuse me. Okay, so that's everybody. And there's about two minutes left. If someone has a, if Sojin wants to take another quick question,

[69:19]

Just let me know, Sojan. Okay. Or we could do the chant and finish up. One more question would be okay. Well, I could ask a question. Yeah, you probably could. It's actually not a question, but it can lead to a question if I can tell a story. Can I tell a story, or is that too weird? No. Whatever. Okay. I'm going to read it because I didn't want to mess it up. Yeah. As a boy, a young boy, I decided I wanted to be good at basketball. Yeah. I would walk my street up the hill, down the hill, to the basketball courts.

[70:21]

It didn't matter the season. It could be snowing, whatever. I would shovel the courts and I would do drills if no one was there, or I'd pick up games. And I would do this through all the seasons. And then one day, when I was summiting the hill, a little old man appeared. He wore a suit and tie and a fedora hat and had a big cigar. He was about 4 foot 11, and he would stop every once in a while and take a few puffs and say, it's a beautiful day, isn't it, to me? And this went on for a long time.

[71:24]

I'd be going to the basketball court, and he'd come by, and we'd kind of meet at the summit. And to me, it was an early message that I never got. You always say there's effortless effort. And I was always good at the effort part, but not good at the effortless part. And so that's the story. And I guess the only question I may have or I have around it is, is there something else? Well, it's, you know, In Japanese archery, you shoot at the target a thousand million times, and it's never perfect until one day it is.

[72:34]

And that's effortless. You make the effort to do that, but then when you do something over and over and over again like that, at some point it becomes effortless. And you always hit the target. Because your effort's not standing in the way of your effort. You're letting things happen instead of making things happen. I've gotten better at it. You have. I appreciate your practice. It took a long time. Yes. But yeah, it takes forever. That's one of those questions that you don't want to answer. Okay. It will happen by itself if you persist.

[73:40]

So that's one thing about your practice, that you're really persistent, very stubborn. Yes. Thanks for all your help. Okay. Have a good night. Oh, the next, excuse me, the next Shosan, Dokusan is the 30th. And if anybody wants to just email me before the announcement comes out, just do that and I'll put you on the list. And thanks, everybody. I want to say something. Okay. You know, we say sometimes, although this question has also already been asked, you know, or something like that, it's okay to ask the same questions because you always get a different response. No problem. So don't think, oh, my answer is kind of silly or stupid or something.

[74:43]

The more stupid the question, the better it is.

[74:46]

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